Topic: Jack's love for Ennis

[tpe]

You know, I'm not even convinced that Jack and Randall discussed living together. Right up to (and beyond?) their final meeting, Jack still dreamed of a life with Ennis, even if he also had some kind of "thing" going with Randall (and, for what it's worth, I still believe that was nothing more than sex and Jack would have given it up in an instant if Ennis made any sort of move towards commitment) Then, right after that meeting, Jack goes up to Lightning Flat and, feeling angry, upset and defeated, tells his folks that he's got someone else that he's going to bring up there, unable to speak of Ennis any more because it causes him too much pain. He uses Randall (maybe even without naming him) as a defence mechanism against his own pain and as a way to ward off any questions his father may have been asking about Ennis. Maybe he would have talked to Randall about moving up there afterwards if he really believed that he and Ennis were finished but I'm certain he wouldn't have done it while he was still seeing Ennis.

Just my feeling....I'm pretty stubborn when it comes to my belief that Jack could never have shared a life with anyone other than Ennis or loved anyone other than Ennis.

Indeed, it may have all been just plans and "hot air".   In spite of the deleted scenes, we really don't know if Jack would have gone through this.   IMO, Jack died before he and Randall were able to advance on their plan (as can be gleaned from what Jack's father said to Ennis).  As I had said before, it is possible that he was "testing" Ennis...

[ksxks]

You know, I'm not even convinced that Jack and Randall discussed living together. Right up to (and beyond?) their final meeting, Jack still dreamed of a life with Ennis, even if he also had some kind of "thing" going with Randall (and, for what it's worth, I still believe that was nothing more than sex and Jack would have given it up in an instant if Ennis made any sort of move towards commitment) Then, right after that meeting, Jack goes up to Lightning Flat and, feeling angry, upset and defeated, tells his folks that he's got someone else that he's going to bring up there, unable to speak of Ennis any more because it causes him too much pain. He uses Randall (maybe even without naming him) as a defence mechanism against his own pain and as a way to ward off any questions his father may have been asking about Ennis. Maybe he would have talked to Randall about moving up there afterwards if he really believed that he and Ennis were finished but I'm certain he wouldn't have done it while he was still seeing Ennis.

Just my feeling....I'm pretty stubborn when it comes to my belief that Jack could never have shared a life with anyone other than Ennis or loved anyone other than Ennis.

Agreed.  That's what I like to think anyway.

kathy

[ksxks]

Do those of you who think Jack had a more "serious" thing with Randall base that mostly on what Jack apparently said to his father, that his father said to Ennis?  If not for just that statement, I otherwise wouldn't have given the idea of Jack wanting a "life" with Randall very much thought at all.  Is there more in the SS or SP about him?  I guess I don't love thinking about Jack having yet totally given up on Ennis...

kathy

Hello kathy.  Yes, I guess I base it on this statement as well as what some of the deleted scenes seem to suggest.   And I also base it on Jake Gyllenhaal's comments about Ennis's love being more faithful than Jack's.  These are subject to interpretation of course. 

You know, I never knew about the deleted scene with Randall in it.  If they had shown it, by the way, I believe we would be forced to think Jack was killed by those mechanics with the tire irons.  As it is, we really are free to assume, if we want to, Lureen's story.  With that deleted scene, we would know for sure that Jack did see Randall.  But I assumed that anyway, based on Jack's comment about the "ranch foreman's wife" and Mr. Twist's comment.  I don't have a real problem (except my heart does) with Jack seeing Randall, but as to their talking about some permanent thing together, I doubt that happened.  It might have happened later, if Jack had lived and Ennis -- for reasons I cannot even imagine -- had continued to refuse Jack's offer of a sweet life...

kathy

[Condiments]

Do those of you who think Jack had a more "serious" thing with Randall base that mostly on what Jack apparently said to his father, that his father said to Ennis?  If not for just that statement, I otherwise wouldn't have given the idea of Jack wanting a "life" with Randall very much thought at all.  Is there more in the SS or SP about him?  I guess I don't love thinking about Jack having yet totally given up on Ennis...

kathy

Hello kathy.  Yes, I guess I base it on this statement as well as what some of the deleted scenes seem to suggest.   And I also base it on Jake Gyllenhaal's comments about Ennis's love being more faithful than Jack's.  These are subject to interpretation of course. 

You know, I never knew about the deleted scene with Randall in it.  If they had shown it, by the way, I believe we would be forced to think Jack was killed by those mechanics with the tire irons.  As it is, we really are free to assume, if we want to, Lureen's story.  With that deleted scene, we would know for sure that Jack did see Randall.  But I assumed that anyway, based on Jack's comment about the "ranch foreman's wife" and Mr. Twist's comment.  I don't have a real problem (except my heart does) with Jack seeing Randall, but as to their talking about some permanent thing together, I doubt that happened.  It might have happened later, if Jack had lived and Ennis -- for reasons I cannot even imagine -- had continued to refuse Jack's offer of a sweet life...

kathy

I have to confess I hold a secret affinity for Randall. I think he would have been a kind, stable and supportive companion for Jack who clearly needed companionship. He seems genuinely caring and attracted to Jack, too, and not in an overt or sleazy way.

And I really believe we need to take Jack's father's comments to Ennis with a huge grain of salt. He was trying to bait and insult Ennis and it seemed obvious to me he was really trying to hurt him with his words. So I have never taken what he said as the truth.

I can also totally see why Jack would be attracted to Randall. Certainly not as a stand-in for Ennis, but for comfort and a little respite from his pain.

condiments (formerly known as Shelley. Actually I still am Shelley, but, well, you know)

[ksxks]

I have to confess I hold a secret affinity for Randall. I think he would have been a kind, stable and supportive companion for Jack who clearly needed companionship. He seems genuinely caring and attracted to Jack, too, and not in an overt or sleazy way.

And I really believe we need to take Jack's father's comments to Ennis with a huge grain of salt. He was trying to bait and insult Ennis and it seemed obvious to me he was really trying to hurt him with his words. So I have never taken what he said as the truth.

I can also totally see why Jack would be attracted to Randall. Certainly not as a stand-in for Ennis, but for comfort and a little respite from his pain.

condiments (formerly known as Shelley. Actually I still am Shelley, but, well, you know)

Condiments -- cool name!!  Former Shelley who is still Shelley...

Obviously, I agree about Randall, though I don't like to spend too much thought on it-- I mean on speculating whether Jack and Randall would have had a more serious thing together if Jack had lived.  But I do see Jack getting together with him during those long times without Ennis.  And don't they look pretty darn hot together in this pic?  Well, Jack certainly looks hot.

An odd-interesting thing about gay men and lesbians (and this is on topic).  I frankly found it kind of disconcerting to be the taller one in the couple, with another woman, having been used to being the shorter one when I was with men.  I wonder if men feel the same.  The shorter man, that is, to be with a taller man, if the shorter man is used to being taller than the woman he was with.  I mean, men who had been with women, obviously.  Maybe with men who have been gay all their lives, the shorter-or-taller thing just isn't any big issue.  So anyway, I think of how Jack might feel being with this taller and bigger man -- it might have been an unusual feeling for him, and I wonder if you can't help but instinctly feel things like that the bigger man is the "protector," things like that.

kathy

[Condiments]

Kathy (still known as Kathy),

What a fascinating speculation. I also wonder if Jack would feel "protected" by Randall's size. As a woman, I know I instinctively feel that with big men. Well, with nice big men. If they're not nice, then it's threatening. But Randall seems really nice and would be very kind to Jack.

But I need to say again, I would never see Randall as any kind of substitute for Ennis.

condiments (or Shelley)

[ksxks]

Kathy (still known as Kathy),

What a fascinating speculation. I also wonder if Jack would feel "protected" by Randall's size. As a woman, I know I instinctively feel that with big men. Well, with nice big men. If they're not nice, then it's threatening. But Randall seems really nice and would be very kind to Jack.

But I need to say again, I would never see Randall as any kind of substitute for Ennis.

condiments (or Shelley)

Good point -- a larger man can be a protector or a threat, depending.  But I think Jack wouldn't really want to be placed in the position of feeling he needed to be protected -- though the gods know he did, when he acted a little too out in an unsafe place.  But anyway, I'm thinking that with Ennis it would have been better, because they were more equal and could have each other's backs.  Ennis was a good fighter and a good shot, and he could feel protected with Ennis but not feel less-than because of being smaller?  I don't know.  In this case, I don't think we women can really get how men might feel, because as women we're kind of set up to need protecting, by men, from men!  That's the wierd conundrum.  Except, gay men need protecting, too, because big nasty straight men want to do them physical harm.  So it certainly helps for a gay man to be big.

Trying to keep this specifically on topic...back to Jack and Randall -- there just is absolutely not that gut-deep spark with Randall as there is with Ennis.  Can you picture Jack and Randall having a "reunion" like Jack and Ennis did?  NO.

kathy

[tpe]

Hello kathy.  Yes, I guess I base it on this statement as well as what some of the deleted scenes seem to suggest.   And I also base it on Jake Gyllenhaal's comments about Ennis's love being more faithful than Jack's.  These are subject to interpretation of course. 

You know, I never knew about the deleted scene with Randall in it.  If they had shown it, by the way, I believe we would be forced to think Jack was killed by those mechanics with the tire irons.  As it is, we really are free to assume, if we want to, Lureen's story.  With that deleted scene, we would know for sure that Jack did see Randall.  But I assumed that anyway, based on Jack's comment about the "ranch foreman's wife" and Mr. Twist's comment.  I don't have a real problem (except my heart does) with Jack seeing Randall, but as to their talking about some permanent thing together, I doubt that happened.  It might have happened later, if Jack had lived and Ennis -- for reasons I cannot even imagine -- had continued to refuse Jack's offer of a sweet life...

kathy

I do think that removing those scenes kept the movie more faithful to the ambiguity that is at the heart of the ss.  In any case, the ss mentioned the "other" person only indirectly (in John Twist's scene with Ennis).  I do like the fact that Randall remains a mysterious character in the final movie version.  Any love he and Jack shared is therefore left as an open question.  Jack's love for Ennis remains largely intact in our minds, even if we feel that something was about to give.

[tpe]

I have to confess I hold a secret affinity for Randall. I think he would have been a kind, stable and supportive companion for Jack who clearly needed companionship. He seems genuinely caring and attracted to Jack, too, and not in an overt or sleazy way.

And I really believe we need to take Jack's father's comments to Ennis with a huge grain of salt. He was trying to bait and insult Ennis and it seemed obvious to me he was really trying to hurt him with his words. So I have never taken what he said as the truth.

I can also totally see why Jack would be attracted to Randall. Certainly not as a stand-in for Ennis, but for comfort and a little respite from his pain.

condiments (formerly known as Shelley. Actually I still am Shelley, but, well, you know)

Although I do personally take John Twist's comments at face value, I certainly cannot rule out what you say here.  I am aware that many of us here do not agree on whether John Twist was intentionally contemptuous at Ennis and even Jack, but what you say does remain a tantalizing possibility.  How much truth there is in John Twist's statements is certainly anybody's guess.  It builds on top of the beautiful ambiguity that surrounds the fate of Jack's love for Ennis in the closing days of his life.

[MississaugaRed]

This is certainly a difficult thought to entertain, that Jack may have considered finally leaving Lureen and moving up to LF with Randall.   Jack must have mentioned Randall in some context, because John Twist wouldn't have had any idea about him otherwise.  I guess I've always preferred to think that if Jack was thinking out loud to his dad about having Randall move up with him it might have been out of loneliness.  A desire to create in his mind the illusion, some poor semblance of the life he had once dreamed of with Ennis.  But it was always Randall acting as a substitute for the man he really wanted.  It might have been better than continuing to live with a woman when that wasn't what Jack needed physically, but it would have been much less than his dream of living with the man he needed emotionally as well.  Pipe dreams, words spoken to comfort himself maybe, rather than any real plans??

I keep trying to find a short, simple answer to the question of what makes Brokeback Mountain an "epic" love story.  Because I always get asked about why I love it so much and I get frustrated that I can't find the easy answer to that.  But I think it comes down simply to the fact that Jack and Ennis were irreplaceable to each other.  It didn't matter who else might come and go in their lives, no one else would mean the same to them.  Ever.  It's what made the loss of that love a tragedy.  Regardless of the Randalls, or Cassies or Almas and Lureens, there was a bond between Jack and Ennis that was never broken.  The ambiguity you speak eloquently of tpe regarding Jack's state of mind prior to his death was for me always about what he was going to do about his feelings for Ennis, not if he'd stopped loving him.  That had never, ever been a question in my mind.  It's the closest thing to a fairy tale ending I can find for the boys in this story, I guess.   Maybe that's a romantic view of it, but it soothes me.   

[ksxks]

Beautifully, beautifully said, Missy.  "Epic" yes, and I think the idea of Ennis and Jack being archetypal characters also adds to why it gets to us so much -- everything we see about love and life and ourselves in Ennis and Jack and their love and their lives and loss...  Also, sometimes it just doesn't need to be explained -- it's like falling in love.  I know that's what it was/is for me -- I just fell in love with Ennis and Jack and their love, and the story lends itself to so much interpretation.  And NTM how it has brought people together to talk about it.

kathy

[ksxks]

But my last reply wasn't really on topic, Jack's love for Ennis.  It's just that beautiful mystery that love is, why Jack saw in Ennis the one he wanted to be with always.  I wonder h ow much of it had to do with Ennis being the kind of person who didn't give of himself too overtly, and to some people, maybe to Jack, that is a challenge that they like.  (Whereas for Ennis, Jack was the kind of person that what you see is what you get.)  Making it sound like just a "challenge" seems to somehow lessen it, though.  I don't mean exactly that.  Jack wasn't looking for a conquest or anything superficial like that.  But Jack's nature, of exploring (at least much more than Ennis did) and following his dreams, would have made him not give up as some other person might have done with Ennis.

That's the good part of it; the other part of it is his frustration with Ennis.  But he loved him still.  Just love -- the subject of the ages, the unanswerable question.

kathy

[MississaugaRed]

kathy, that's very intuitive, about Jack.  Jack being the one with the need to search out more, to explore.  Maybe it was the mystery of Ennis that drew Jack so quickly, and kept him all those years. 

[LuvJackNasty]

I keep trying to find a short, simple answer to the question of what makes Brokeback Mountain an "epic" love story.  Because I always get asked about why I love it so much and I get frustrated that I can't find the easy answer to that.  But I think it comes down simply to the fact that Jack and Ennis were irreplaceable to each other.  It didn't matter who else might come and go in there lives, no one else would mean the same to them.  Ever.  It's what made the loss of that love a tragedy.  Regardless of the Randalls, or Cassies or Almas and Lureens, there was a bond between Jack and Ennis that was never broken.  The ambiguity you speak eloquently of tpe regarding Jack's state of mind prior to his death was for me always about what he was going to do about his feelings for Ennis, not if he'd stopped loving him. 

 :\'( Great post MissRed. I share that romanticism. It was love plain and simple- why else did Jack keep driving to see Ennis? It wasn't for a coupla high altitude f*cks once or twice a year- I'm sure that factored in  but he wanted Ennis, he loved him.There was something that kept them together for 20 years. I mean was the sex that good that Jack drove 14 hours each way 2-3 times a year? Was it that good that Ennis quit his jobs to see Jack? There was something more there- love. That could just be my romantic side refusing to believe anything else. But why else do what they did and for so long?
 He wanted that dream to be fulfilled with Ennis. I think Jack's upbringing- lonely and the way his father treated him -made him cling even harder to his dream- he knew Ennis loved him but he needed it to be validated, he needed to feel he was worth it.

[NoReins]

I keep trying to find a short, simple answer to the question of what makes Brokeback Mountain an "epic" love story.  Because I always get asked about why I love it so much and I get frustrated that I can't find the easy answer to that.  But I think it comes down simply to the fact that Jack and Ennis were irreplaceable to each other.  It didn't matter who else might come and go in there lives, no one else would mean the same to them.  Ever.  It's what made the loss of that love a tragedy.  Regardless of the Randalls, or Cassies or Almas and Lureens, there was a bond between Jack and Ennis that was never broken.  The ambiguity you speak eloquently of tpe regarding Jack's state of mind prior to his death was for me always about what he was going to do about his feelings for Ennis, not if he'd stopped loving him. 

 :\'( Great post MissRed. I share that romanticism. It was love plain and simple- why else did Jack keep driving to see Ennis? It wasn't for a coupla high altitude f*cks once or twice a year- I'm sure that factored in  but he wanted Ennis, he loved him.There was something that kept them together for 20 years. I mean was the sex that good that Jack drove 14 hours each way 2-3 times a year? Was it that good that Ennis quit his jobs to see Jack? There was something more there- love. That could just be my romantic side refusing to believe anything else. But why else do what they did and for so long?
 He wanted that dream to be fulfilled with Ennis. I think Jack's upbringing- lonely and the way his father treated him -made him cling even harder to his dream- he knew Ennis loved him but he needed it to be validated, he needed to feel he was worth it.

Beautifully said, both MissRed and LJN :\'(

[greenfrog]

kathy, that's very intuitive, about Jack.  Jack being the one with the need to search out more, to explore.  Maybe it was the mystery of Ennis that drew Jack so quickly, and kept him all those years. 

Beautiful post MissRed 

[MississaugaRed]

I think the idea of Ennis and Jack being archetypal characters also adds to why it gets to us so much -- everything we see about love and life and ourselves in Ennis and Jack and their love and their lives and loss...  Also, sometimes it just doesn't need to be explained -- it's like falling in love.  I know that's what it was/is for me -- I just fell in love with Ennis and Jack and their love, and the story lends itself to so much interpretation.  And NTM how it has brought people together to talk about it.

kathy, you thought last night that your comments here were OT, but I'm not entirely sure that's so.   The way you're speaking of our passion for BBM, it's not unlike the love Jack and Ennis have for each other.  It's incredible that after all this time, this film still draws new people into its magic. And the number of "first-wavers" who are still committed almost a year later is humbling.

So ej reminds me of the love between Jack and Ennis.  That Jack and Ennis found each other was an act of fate, I think.  They created this love of theirs during the brief time spent together on the mountains.  I'm guessing they had something like maybe 8 weeks together, perhaps 6 weeks as lovers, give or take?  And yet that too-short union in 1963 was enough to bind them to each other for the rest of their lives. 

How did ej come to be?  We started with Annie's haunting short story.  Thirty pages or so in the New Yorker, wasn't it?  We have the screenplay.  And then we were gifted with the film.  A mere 2 hours and 14 minutes (est.) of the most perfect story telling you'd ever hope to see. 

That's all.  That's the entirety of what we started with.  And from that staggeringly spare foundation a whole culture has been born.  At ennnisjack (and other forums)  people like us are connected and drawn together through all these months and from around the world; fans meet on-line then travel hundreds of miles to meet each other face-to-face;  the very word "brokeback" has seeped into mainstream culture so that people who have  never saw the movie know of it.  Even in the unique world of fan fiction BBM has set new boundaries, inspired whole new concepts.  All this based on one short story, it's screen play and 134 minutes of film!  That astounds me! 

Thee's an old Sunday school teaching that basically states that if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you can move mountains,  Brokeback Mountain the film is our mustard seed, and from it we've created mountains!

Long story short - what's happened here at ej, the impact of BBM -  actually helps me to understand and believe in the love Jack had for Ennis, and Ennis for him;  I can believe that a brief but powerful exposure to something that touches an essential part of you will change your life forever.    I can believe in Jack's love for Ennis more completely now, because I've wittnessed the power a quiet little film has had on the lives of everyone here.     There is no questioning Jack's feelings after this, not for me, whatever his words or actions.

(Hope that brings this lack-of-sleep ramble sufficently back on topic to avoid FMM's    )

[tpe]

This is certainly a difficult thought to entertain, that Jack may have considered finally leaving Lureen and moving up to LF with Randall.   Jack must have mentioned Randall in some context, because John Twist wouldn't have had any idea about him otherwise.  I guess I've always preferred to think that if Jack was thinking out loud to his dad about having Randall move up with him it might have been out of loneliness.  A desire to create in his mind the illusion, some poor semblance of the life he had once dreamed of with Ennis.  But it was always Randall acting as a substitute for the man he really wanted.  It might have been better than continuing to live with a woman when that wasn't what Jack needed physically, but it would have been much less than his dream of living with the man he needed emotionally as well.  Pipe dreams, words spoken to comfort himself maybe, rather than any real plans??

I keep trying to find a short, simple answer to the question of what makes Brokeback Mountain an "epic" love story.  Because I always get asked about why I love it so much and I get frustrated that I can't find the easy answer to that.  But I think it comes down simply to the fact that Jack and Ennis were irreplaceable to each other.  It didn't matter who else might come and go in there lives, no one else would mean the same to them.  Ever.  It's what made the loss of that love a tragedy.  Regardless of the Randalls, or Cassies or Almas and Lureens, there was a bond between Jack and Ennis that was never broken.  The ambiguity you speak eloquently of tpe regarding Jack's state of mind prior to his death was for me always about what he was going to do about his feelings for Ennis, not if he'd stopped loving him.  That had never, ever been a question in my mind.  It's the closest thing to a fairy tale ending I can find for the boys in this story, I guess.   Maybe that's a romantic view of it, but it soothes me.   

Jack loved Ennis -- in spite of all their weaknesses and failings.  And even if the dream of a shared life remained unfulfilled, Jack also knew deep in his heart that he was also loved. 

This is our sole consolation.  Their love suffices.

[MississaugaRed]

I share that romanticism. It was love plain and simple- why else did Jack keep driving to see Ennis? It wasn't for a coupla high altitude f*cks once or twice a year- I'm sure that factored in  but he wanted Ennis, he loved him.There was something that kept them together for 20 years. I mean was the sex that good that Jack drove 14 hours each way 2-3 times a year? Was it that good that Ennis quit his jobs to see Jack? There was something more there- love. That could just be my romantic side refusing to believe anything else. But why else do what they did and for so long?
 He wanted that dream to be fulfilled with Ennis. I think Jack's upbringing- lonely and the way his father treated him -made him cling even harder to his dream- he knew Ennis loved him but he needed it to be validated, he needed to feel he was worth it.

Beautiful, LJN!     And too sad to think that Ennis being unable to take the steps to a life with Jack not only broke Jack's heart, but might have feed into his feelings of unworthiness.  The ones first instilled in Jack by John Twist, and then feed by years living under L.D. Newsome's contempt.   :\'(    That's a thought that hurts - very, very badly!   :\'(

[NoReins]

Long story short - what's happened here at ej, the impact of BBM -  actually helps me to understand and believe in the love Jack had for Ennis, and Ennis for him;  I can believe that a brief but powerful exposure to something that touches an essential part of you will change your life forever.    I can believe in Jack's love for Ennis more completely now, because I've wittnessed the power a quiet little film has had on the lives of everyone here.     There is no questioning Jack's feelings after this, not for me, whatever his words or actions.

(Hope that brings this lack-of-sleep ramble sufficently back on topic to avoid FMM's    )

MissRed - that is one incredible post. More incredible because it's so totally true. I knew the moment I left the cinema that my love for this story would never grow old - it doesn't take years, or even six weeks, to fall into a love so deep that you know you'll never give it up, it can happen in seconds (or 134 minutes in this case!)

Jack and Ennis were soulmates....and I think all of us on here are too. They were bound together for eternity by their love, just as we are bound together by our love for them.

[Twisted]

Love isn't a feeling, it's a force of nature..

All i wanted to say

I love all your posts.

[tpe]

But my last reply wasn't really on topic, Jack's love for Ennis.  It's just that beautiful mystery that love is, why Jack saw in Ennis the one he wanted to be with always.  I wonder h ow much of it had to do with Ennis being the kind of person who didn't give of himself too overtly, and to some people, maybe to Jack, that is a challenge that they like.  (Whereas for Ennis, Jack was the kind of person that what you see is what you get.)  Making it sound like just a "challenge" seems to somehow lessen it, though.  I don't mean exactly that.  Jack wasn't looking for a conquest or anything superficial like that.  But Jack's nature, of exploring (at least much more than Ennis did) and following his dreams, would have made him not give up as some other person might have done with Ennis.

That's the good part of it; the other part of it is his frustration with Ennis.  But he loved him still.  Just love -- the subject of the ages, the unanswerable question.

kathy

Do we all believe in the reality of unconditional love?

I do.  And I believe that, in spite of the seedy diversions and the final loss of hope, Jack's love for Ennis was unconditional.

It is indeed the beautiful mystery that love can attain.   This is what it means for a love to never grow old.

frances, had exposed the heart of unconditional love best, in perhaps (for me) the most memorable of all quotes in the pix and poems thread:


Thus much and more; and yet thou lov'st me not,
And never wilt!  Love dwells not in our will.
Nor can I blame thee, though it be my lot
To strongly, wrongly, vainly love thee still.

(Byron)

[LuvJackNasty]

I can believe in Jack's love for Ennis more completely now, because I've wittnessed the power a quiet little film has had on the lives of everyone here.     There is no questioning Jack's feelings after this, not for me, whatever his words or actions.


Jack and Ennis were soulmates....and I think all of us on here are too. They were bound together for eternity by their love, just as we are bound together by our love for them.

Beautiful Miss-Red and No Reins.  :\'(

[lamusica]

After reading this thread, it has dawned on me that perhaps it is worth discussing what Jake thought about Ennis' love or lack thereof of him.  Did Jack think Ennis loved him?  After Ennis' words in their final scene?  Did he feel Ennis loved him less than he loved Ennis?  Could thoughts such as these make Jack change in some ways towards Ennis?   Hmmmmmmmm??

[ksxks]

Jack loved Ennis -- in spite of all their weaknesses and failings.  And even if the dream of a shared life remained unfulfilled, Jack also knew deep in his heart that he was also loved. 

This is our sole consolation.  Their love suffices.

Yes, yes.  That is key to Jack's love of Ennis -- that he knew Ennis loved him!

kathy

[ksxks]

kathy, you thought last night that your comments here were OT, but I'm not entirely sure that's so.   The way you're speaking of our passion for BBM, it's not unlike the love Jack and Ennis have for each other.  It's incredible that after all this time, this film still draws new people into its magic. And the number of "first-wavers" who are still committed almost a year later is humbling.

So ej reminds me of the love between Jack and Ennis.  That Jack and Ennis found each other was an act of fate, I think.  They created this love of theirs during the brief time spent together on the mountains.  I'm guessing they had something like maybe 8 weeks together, perhaps 6 weeks as lovers, give or take?  And yet that too-short union in 1963 was enough to bind them to each other for the rest of their lives. 

How did ej come to be?  We started with Annie's haunting short story.  Thirty pages or so in the New Yorker, wasn't it?  We have the screenplay.  And then we were gifted with the film.  A mere 2 hours and 14 minutes (est.) of the most perfect story telling you'd ever hope to see. 

That's all.  That's the entirety of what we started with.  And from that staggeringly spare foundation a whole culture has been born.  At ennnisjack (and other forums)  people like us are connected and drawn together through all these months and from around the world; fans meet on-line then travel hundreds of miles to meet each other face-to-face;  the very word "brokeback" has seeped into mainstream culture so that people who have  never saw the movie know of it.  Even in the unique world of fan fiction BBM has set new boundaries, inspired whole new concepts.  All this based on one short story, it's screen play and 134 minutes of film!  That astounds me! 

Thee's an old Sunday school teaching that basically states that if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you can move mountains,  Brokeback Mountain the film is our mustard seed, and from it we've created mountains!

Long story short - what's happened here at ej, the impact of BBM -  actually helps me to understand and believe in the love Jack had for Ennis, and Ennis for him;  I can believe that a brief but powerful exposure to something that touches an essential part of you will change your life forever.    I can believe in Jack's love for Ennis more completely now, because I've wittnessed the power a quiet little film has had on the lives of everyone here.     There is no questioning Jack's feelings after this, not for me, whatever his words or actions.

(Hope that brings this lack-of-sleep ramble sufficently back on topic to avoid FMM's    )

MissRed:  I can add nothing to this, what you said, except to say what a beautiful post.  It shows how these love-feelings (Jack for Ennis, to be on topic) can spark and catch fire and burn in us for a long, long time... 

kathy

[welshwitch]

Maybe for ever - I wonder whether , if you fall in love with someone, that feeling ever entirely leaves you, even if the whole thing goes wrong or at least doesn't work out. There's a poem by Tennyson, one line of which reads !I am a part of all that I have met;"  for "met" one could substitute "loved". Ennis became a part of Jack ( an d vice versa); if you let someone inside your head and heart you can never entirely evict them. You might try to pretend they aren't there but eventually you find you are wrong.Once two loves are woven together by love, it's impossible to untangle them. If Jack had last thoughts, they were of Ennis, whom he had always loved even when he was most frustrated and unhappy.

[ksxks]

Maybe for ever - I wonder whether , if you fall in love with someone, that feeling ever entirely leaves you, even if the whole thing goes wrong or at least doesn't work out. There's a poem by Tennyson, one line of which reads !I am a part of all that I have met;"  for "met" one could substitute "loved". Ennis became a part of Jack ( an d vice versa); if you let someone inside your head and heart you can never entirely evict them. You might try to pretend they aren't there but eventually you find you are wrong.Once two loves are woven together by love, it's impossible to untangle them. If Jack had last thoughts, they were of Ennis, whom he had always loved even when he was most frustrated and unhappy.

Beautiful and true...   :\'(

kathy

[greenfrog]

Maybe for ever - I wonder whether , if you fall in love with someone, that feeling ever entirely leaves you, even if the whole thing goes wrong or at least doesn't work out. There's a poem by Tennyson, one line of which reads !I am a part of all that I have met;"  for "met" one could substitute "loved". Ennis became a part of Jack ( an d vice versa); if you let someone inside your head and heart you can never entirely evict them. You might try to pretend they aren't there but eventually you find you are wrong.Once two loves are woven together by love, it's impossible to untangle them. If Jack had last thoughts, they were of Ennis, whom he had always loved even when he was most frustrated and unhappy.

Beautiful post Welshwitch 

True as well. Not matter what happened, Jack and Ennis would never be able to forget each other.

[tpe]

Yes, yes.  That is key to Jack's love of Ennis -- that he knew Ennis loved him!

kathy

I cannot imagine lasting that long (nearly 20 years) under such circumstances.  Only the certainty of love can do such wonders.