Author Topic: Jack's love for Ennis (Read 159194 times)

City Slickin' Cowboy · « **Reply #150 on:** Oct 27, 2006, 11:05 AM »

I have to agree. Twenty years under unfavorable circumstances is quite a bit to endure. However, when a strong love is present between two people the obstacles tend to take a back seat. Jack and Ennis had each other to look forward to...no matter how infrequent their reunions were. I can't say that I wouldn't have handled their situation differently.

tpe · « **Reply #151 on:** Oct 27, 2006, 03:28 PM »

Quote from: City Slickin' Cowboy on Oct 27, 2006, 11:05 AM

I have to agree. Twenty years under unfavorable circumstances is quite a bit to endure. However, when a strong love is present between two people the obstacles tend to take a back seat. Jack and Ennis had each other to look forward to...no matter how infrequent their reunions were. I can't say that I wouldn't have handled their situation differently.

CSC, I can't tell if I should condemn Jack or commend him. Could he have been more insistent? More forceful? The love was strong, but there was a cancer at the heart of it. It killed both of them, to a certain extent. They are martyrs to their love.

City Slickin' Cowboy · « **Reply #152 on:** Oct 27, 2006, 04:09 PM »

tpe it is a difficult assessment. The cancer you refer to is a fear of their relationship forced upon them by society. Although Jack seemed more willing to deal the affects, the cancer couldn't have been overcome (or arrested) unless both were ready to fight head on. Unfortunately, this was a fight where Ennis may have felt ill equipped.

tpe · « **Reply #153 on:** Oct 27, 2006, 04:56 PM »

Quote from: City Slickin' Cowboy on Oct 27, 2006, 04:09 PM

tpe it is a difficult assessment. The cancer you refer to is a fear of their relationship forced upon them by society. Although Jack seemed more willing to deal the affects, the cancer couldn't have been overcome (or arrested) unless both were ready to fight head on. Unfortunately, this was a fight where Ennis may have felt ill equipped.

I think so too. It was a nowin situation, most likely. I think Jack understood Ennis's plight, but he just couldn't stand it anymore in the end. This is what is most heartbreaking about this love: it felt that it no longer had room to move...

ksxks · « **Reply #154 on:** Oct 27, 2006, 06:12 PM »

Quote from: MississaugaRed on Oct 25, 2006, 07:20 AM

LJN said:
...I think Jack's upbringing- lonely and the way his father treated him -made him cling even harder to his dream- he knew Ennis loved him but he needed it to be validated, he needed to feel he was worth it.

Beautiful, LJN! And too sad to think that Ennis being unable to take the steps to a life with Jack not only broke Jack's heart, but might have feed into his feelings of unworthiness. The ones first instilled in Jack by John Twist, and then feed by years living under L.D. Newsome's contempt. :\'( That's a thought that hurts - very, very badly! :\'(

Oh this just breaks my heart. I feel like I haven't exactly looked at Jack from this perspective before. (Isn't it amazing how we can keep getting insights after all this time?) That Jack might have needed validation. Oh god, I just want to cry for him. This makes me feel like he is as tragic a character as Ennis. A sweet, clever, open and honest and adventuresome boy makes his way as best he can, but along the road has more than the normal share of being shot down. Okay, yes, Ennis loves him...but finally, if Ennis had given himself to Jack, Jack could have relaxed in his beingness, felt truly wanted... Excuse me, have to go dry my eyes.

kathy

City Slickin' Cowboy · « **Reply #155 on:** Oct 27, 2006, 09:28 PM »

Reading this thread has made me even more sympathetic towards Jack. The tortured portayal of Ennis sometimes overshadows the pain that Jack dealt with. He truly loved Ennis and was shot down time after time. :\'(

welshwitch · « **Reply #156 on:** Oct 28, 2006, 10:58 AM »

It'sa the old appearance v reality theme - see the whole of Shakespeare. Ennis is portrayed as more taciturn, looks more toirtured, by the end appears a tragically isolated figure. Jack is always more forthcoming, eager, full of life, involved in society - doesn't mean he's suffering any the less, just hiding it in a different way.

City Slickin' Cowboy · « **Reply #157 on:** Oct 28, 2006, 02:39 PM »

Well said welshwitch!

tpe · « **Reply #158 on:** Oct 30, 2006, 08:51 AM »

Yes, well said, ww. Did one of them really understand how much the other suffered?

Jack loved Ennis in a more expressive manner. Likewise, he suffered more openly. It did not appear tortured like Ennis's, but Jack's suffering was real and heartbreaking, nonetheless.

MississaugaRed · « **Reply #159 on:** Oct 30, 2006, 09:06 AM »

Beautifully expressed, welshwitch and tpe.

It had often bothered me that because Jack was easier, freer with this emotions, he was at times judged to feel "less".

Now I find it heartbreaking to think that whatever suffering he did openly, there was likely a tremendous well of additional hurt unseen, underneath, kept hidden. How deep the hurt must have gone, that not all of it could be contained.

tpe · « **Reply #160 on:** Oct 30, 2006, 09:16 AM »

Quote from: MississaugaRed on Oct 30, 2006, 09:06 AM

Beautifully expressed, welshwitch and tpe.

It had often bothered me that because Jack was easier, freer with this emotions, he was at times judged to feel "less".

Now I find it heartbreaking to think that whatever suffering he did openly, there was likely a tremendous well of additional hurt unseen, underneath, kept hidden. How deep the hurt must have gone, that not all of it could be contained.

Yes, there is that bias that something that is more emotive/expressive is less deep. I guess the attitude echos the saying "still waters run deep". Although true, love is never as simple as that.

Jack never went overboeard when expressing his love for Ennis. It was restrained and moving. It is very very difficult to express one's love in a sincere and yet meaningful way. Sometimes, remaining silent is the easy way out... Once you express your love, you become vulnerable.

theohsocurlyone · « **Reply #161 on:** Oct 30, 2006, 06:06 PM »

Hi - I'm new on Ennisjack.com and this is my first post. Eek. I don't think I've got much to add to this so far; all of you have taken the words right out of my mouth and phrased them BEAUTIFULLY. You moved me to tears. So thank you, and I hope I can offer some insight when I've got used to how these boards work.

theohsocurlyone · « **Reply #162 on:** Oct 30, 2006, 06:09 PM »

P.S. Can any of you see my display picture? I've had massive trouble finding one the right size, and I'm not sure if it worked.

chameau · « **Reply #163 on:** Oct 30, 2006, 06:32 PM »

Quote from: theohsocurlyone on Oct 30, 2006, 06:09 PM

P.S. Can any of you see my display picture? I've had massive trouble finding one the right size, and I'm not sure if it worked.

Check your personal messages

tpe · « **Reply #164 on:** Oct 30, 2006, 06:33 PM »

Quote from: theohsocurlyone on Oct 30, 2006, 06:06 PM

Hi - I'm new on Ennisjack.com and this is my first post. Eek. I don't think I've got much to add to this so far; all of you have taken the words right out of my mouth and phrased them BEAUTIFULLY. You moved me to tears. So thank you, and I hope I can offer some insight when I've got used to how these boards work.

theohsocurlyone, welcome to the forum. Take your time to look at all the different threads. Everyday, I find things that move me.

Jack's love for Ennis moves you? You are in good company here.

Patriot1 · « **Reply #165 on:** Oct 30, 2006, 07:29 PM »

Quote from: theohsocurlyone on Oct 30, 2006, 06:06 PM

Hi - I'm new on Ennisjack.com and this is my first post. Eek. I don't think I've got much to add to this so far; all of you have taken the words right out of my mouth and phrased them BEAUTIFULLY. You moved me to tears. So thank you, and I hope I can offer some insight when I've got used to how these boards work.

theohsocurlyone. I am looking forward to reading your thoughts on a movie I love more than any other movie made...ever.

ksxks · « **Reply #166 on:** Oct 31, 2006, 12:59 AM »

Quote from: tpe on Oct 30, 2006, 06:33 PM

theohsocurlyone, welcome to the forum. Take your time to look at all the different threads. Everyday, I find things that move me.

Jack's love for Ennis moves you? You are in good company here.

Welcome from me, too, theohsocurlyone (got to think of a shorter nickname for you, ohso? curlyone?).

I've been here for months, and there are still threads yet to explore. There is such a wealth of both camaraderie and interesting and moving discussion -- you can indulge all you want in exploring this beautiful love of Ennis and Jack.

kathy

welshwitch · « **Reply #167 on:** Oct 31, 2006, 11:07 AM »

hi, tosco ( my version of your name) and welcome to the forum. You will find it takes weeks if not months to read all the intersting comments and opinions here - but it's a good way of clarifying your own reactions.

FlwrChild · « **Reply #168 on:** Oct 31, 2006, 01:25 PM »

Beautiful posts about Jack's suffering and its being less evident. I think you can see Jack's love for Ennis every time he looks at him and I think you will find his suffering in the same place - his eyes.

greenfrog · « **Reply #169 on:** Oct 31, 2006, 09:06 PM »

Quote from: FlwrChild on Oct 31, 2006, 01:25 PM

Beautiful posts about Jack's suffering and its being less evident. I think you can see Jack's love for Ennis every time he looks at him and I think you will find his suffering in the same place - his eyes.

Great post FlwrChild.

Jack's eyes are definately a window to his soul :\'( :\'( :\'(

MississaugaRed · « **Reply #170 on:** Nov 01, 2006, 06:43 AM »

Quote from: FlwrChild on Oct 31, 2006, 01:25 PM

I think you can see Jack's love for Ennis every time he looks at him and I think you will find his suffering in the same place - his eyes.

Perfectly said, FlwrChld.

Maybe that's why Jack couldn't look at Ennis when he told him "sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it." He was risking revealing enough with his words right then, he might not have wanted to reveal everything that was in his eyes at that moment, too.

tpe · « **Reply #171 on:** Nov 01, 2006, 07:59 AM »

Very good point, MississaugaRed.

In the scene where Jack says these words to Ennis, he looks far and away, and not at Ennis. But you can tell that there was almost 20 years of love and suffering in those eyes. And I surmise that Ennis saw it too.

FlwrChild · « **Reply #172 on:** Nov 01, 2006, 09:55 AM »

My heart just broke all over again. Can't even imagine what poor Jack's felt like... $:-\\$

welshwitch · « **Reply #173 on:** Nov 01, 2006, 11:34 AM »

It's also the kind of love we'd all like to think we're capable of but often aren't.

tpe · « **Reply #174 on:** Nov 02, 2006, 08:28 AM »

I love Jack for trying. He is inept in many ways, but the way he loves moves me deeply.

greenfrog · « **Reply #175 on:** Nov 02, 2006, 08:18 PM »

Quote from: tpe on Nov 02, 2006, 08:28 AM

I love Jack for trying.

Agreed

City Slickin' Cowboy · « **Reply #176 on:** Nov 02, 2006, 08:38 PM »

Quote from: tpe on Nov 01, 2006, 07:59 AM

In the scene where Jack says these words to Ennis, he looks far and away, and not at Ennis. But you can tell that there was almost 20 years of love and suffering in those eyes. And I surmise that Ennis saw it too.

I agree tpe. I know there are those who felt Ennis should have said something in reply to Jack's revelation. Personally, I believe Ennis didn't know how to respond.

LuvJackNasty · « **Reply #177 on:** Nov 02, 2006, 10:43 PM »

I flip flop all the time on that- Sometimes I just want to scream at Ennis for not repsonding to him, sometimes I think he knows that he has to break the news to Jack the next day about August and feels even worse and then sometimes I think that he starts thinking because his big phrase is "If you can't fix it, you've got to stand it" and Jack is somewhat saying he can't stand it. Somtimes I see that as a sort of cry for help- "I can't stand it, fix it for me Ennis." :\'(

tpe · « **Reply #178 on:** Nov 03, 2006, 08:10 AM »

Quote from: City Slickin' Cowboy on Nov 02, 2006, 08:38 PM

I agree tpe. I know there are those who felt Ennis should have said something in reply to Jack's revelation. Personally, I believe Ennis didn't know how to respond.

Ennis couldn't say anything to the contrary, because he knew that what Jack said was true. And that it scared him to realize that he felt likewise.

tpe · « **Reply #179 on:** Nov 03, 2006, 08:16 AM »

Quote from: LuvJackNasty on Nov 02, 2006, 10:43 PM

I flip flop all the time on that- Sometimes I just want to scream at Ennis for not repsonding to him, sometimes I think he knows that he has to break the news to Jack the next day about August and feels even worse and then sometimes I think that he starts thinking because his big phrase is "If you can't fix it, you've got to stand it" and Jack is somewhat saying he can't stand it. Somtimes I see that as a sort of cry for help- "I can't stand it, fix it for me Ennis." :\'(

I suspect that Ennis was very guarded at this point.

We all agree that Ennis felt the same way deep down, no?

If yes, then he probably felt that to admit to similar feelings would expose the incongruity of the status quo: being truly in love and yet unable to bring that love to fruition. Ennis must have felt that to have said smething similar would be tabtamount to admitting that the status quo was untenable.

It was untenable, but Ennis was afraid.

Author Topic: Jack's love for Ennis (Read 159194 times)

theohsocurlyone

theohsocurlyone

greenfrog

greenfrog