Author Topic: All them THINGS that I don't know (Read 92951 times)

matt78 · « **on:** Jan 19, 2006, 12:49 PM »

Ennis: "I'm gonna tell you this one time, Jack fu**in' Twist, an' I ain't foolin'. What I don't know - all them THINGS that I don't know - could get you killed if I should come to know them."

When he said the word THINGS in that loud aggressive tone I almost jumped out of my seat in the second viewing.
Powerful line

tpe · « **Reply #1 on:** Jan 19, 2006, 01:42 PM »

The way Ledger punctuated the word THINGS by hitting Gyllenhaal with both fists made ME jump.

Very powerful line.

Toadily · « **Reply #2 on:** Jan 19, 2006, 01:45 PM »

I know, that scene was so amazing cause of the level of emotion. When you think of how tight wound Ennis is in the other scenes and then you that!

jimnick · « **Reply #3 on:** Jan 19, 2006, 10:07 PM »

Ennis is essentially saying: "Jack, you are only for me!"

Jim

ethan · « **Reply #4 on:** Jan 19, 2006, 10:13 PM »

Quote from: matt78 on Jan 19, 2006, 12:49 PM

Ennis: "I'm gonna tell you this one time, Jack f***in' Twist, an' I ain't foolin'. What I don't know - all them THINGS that I don't know - could get you killed if I should come to know them."

When he said the word THINGS in that loud aggressive tone I almost jumped out of my seat in the second viewing.
Powerful line

Even after seeing it 5th times, I still almost jumped out of my seat. Full of emotion. Could it mean that Ennis is the possessive type? But that is another topic.

jimnick · « **Reply #5 on:** Jan 19, 2006, 10:19 PM »

Quote from: jimnick on Jan 19, 2006, 10:07 PM

Ennis is essentially saying: "Jack, you are only for me!"

Jim

...and who could blame him?

Jim

Hermes1 · « **Reply #6 on:** Jan 20, 2006, 02:24 AM »

That was also Ennis' round about way of saying that he loved Jack... Sometimes possessiveness is the only way stoic people know how to express love.

tpe · « **Reply #7 on:** Jan 20, 2006, 07:50 AM »

Quote from: Hermes1 on Jan 20, 2006, 02:24 AM

That was also Ennis' round about way of saying that he loved Jack... Sometimes possessiveness is the only way stoic people know how to express love.

Welcome Hermes1.

I agree. Also, in the case of Ennis, violence ironically becomes a telltale expression of love.

daveya26 · « **Reply #8 on:** Jan 20, 2006, 07:57 AM »

Interesting how they both spoke openly of their wives and other women (Jack's affair, Ennis' waitress) with jealousy but the thought of Jack with another man drives Ennis wild. Its almost like the women arent a threat to them but another man could be, it could spoil something special and unique for them.

ethan · « **Reply #9 on:** Jan 20, 2006, 08:10 AM »

Quote from: daveya26 on Jan 20, 2006, 07:57 AM

Interesting how they both spoke openly of their wives and other women (Jack's affair, Ennis' waitress) with jealousy but the thought of Jack with another man drives Ennis wild. Its almost like the women arent a threat to them but another man could be, it could spoil something special and unique for them.

Very interesting observation. I never thought of this. This could further support the theory of acting straight which they both knew that women in their lives are just a cover-up.

tpe · « **Reply #10 on:** Jan 20, 2006, 08:15 AM »

Quote from: ethan on Jan 20, 2006, 08:10 AM

Quote from: daveya26 on Jan 20, 2006, 07:57 AM
Interesting how they both spoke openly of their wives and other women (Jack's affair, Ennis' waitress) with [sic] jealousy but the thought of Jack with another man drives Ennis wild. Its almost like the women arent a threat to them but another man could be, it could spoil something special and unique for them.

Very interesting observation. I never thought of this. This could further support the theory of acting straight which they both knew that women in their lives are just a cover-up.

I completely agree that they did not consider the women in their lives as a threat to their relationship. This is clear when Jack tries to hide his affair with the Texas neighbor by telling Ennis that he (Jack) was having an affair with the Texas neighbor's WIFE.

Also remember the exchange:

Jack: You and Alma...that's a life?

Ennis: Now you shut up about Alma...it's not her fault...

daveya26 · « **Reply #11 on:** Jan 20, 2006, 08:37 AM »

Sorry, I meant to say 'without jealousy', obviously

That bit you quoted was in the movie, but interestingly not in the book. To me, it seems as if Ennis is being protective of Alma, he feels some guilt and doesnt want Jack belittling her.

tpe · « **Reply #12 on:** Jan 20, 2006, 08:54 AM »

Quote from: daveya26 on Jan 20, 2006, 08:37 AM

Sorry, I meant to say 'without jealousy', obviously

That bit you quoted was in the movie, but interestingly not in the book. To me, it seems as if Ennis is being protective of Alma, he feels some guilt and doesnt want Jack belittling her.

daveya26, correct. The entire first fishing trip is an addition from the screenplay. (Recall that the story only features the motel scene whereas the film moves parts of the motel scene dialog to this new fishing trip scene.)

Ennis was being protective of Alma because, in a sense, he did love her. But this love was clearly on a different level and was not a threat to Ennis' love for Jack. That was why both of them could talk about their marriages without jealousy. Had Alma been a threat, Ennis would never would have mentioned Alma directly to Jack.

Nonetheless, it is interesting to note that Ennis NEVER wanted to share Jack with Alma ('He's from Texas' 'Texans don't drink coffee?'). The same is true for Jack: he never wanted to share Ennis with Lureen ('The Big Horn aint in Texas...') If Ennis and Jack could talk openly about their wives to each other, they were never NEVER comfortable discussing the other with their respective marital partners. In fact, even Ennis' daughters and Jack's son were completely in the dark as to this special relationship. In contrast to this, note that Ennis had no problem having both Alma Jr. and Cassie together with him.

This possessiveness speaks volumes of how they treasured the relationship.

Walford · « **Reply #13 on:** Jan 21, 2006, 03:48 AM »

Just occured to me how Ennis attacked the word "THINGS" and attacked Jack with it. There's a subtext there that Ennis is disgusted by homosexual sex ("them things"), and still considers what he has with Jack as "ain't queer." This also shows when he talks about what they have in Mexico for "boys like YOU."

coguaro · « **Reply #14 on:** Jan 21, 2006, 04:16 AM »

I think that in this scene Ennis is captured by his jalousie and maybe offended by the idea that their unique, special, love didn't have been respected by Jack behavior. For that he use an aggressive language which maybe he listened when he was in his family house, the language he grown with. His cultural rotts coming out.

jimnick · « **Reply #15 on:** Jan 21, 2006, 11:26 AM »

Quote from: coguaro on Jan 21, 2006, 04:16 AM

I think that in this scene Ennis is captured by his jalousie and maybe offended by the idea that their unique, special, love didn't have been respected by Jack behavior. For that he use an aggressive language which maybe he listened when he was in his family house, the language he grown with. His cultural rotts coming out.

I think you're right. Ennis' distaste for being gay and fear of being found out stems from his upbringing.

Jim

City Slickin' Cowboy · « **Reply #16 on:** Jan 23, 2006, 06:13 PM »

Quote from: matt78 on Jan 19, 2006, 12:49 PM

Ennis: "I'm gonna tell you this one time, Jack f***in' Twist, an' I ain't foolin'. What I don't know - all them THINGS that I don't know - could get you killed if I should come to know them."

I too believe this was Ennis' way of expressing his hurt if he knew for sure that Jack had been with other men. When I saw this scene during my 2nd viewing I thought "Damn! He loves the hell outta this guy!"

Toadily · « **Reply #17 on:** Jan 23, 2006, 06:19 PM »

Quote from: jarwill-nc on Jan 23, 2006, 06:13 PM

Quote from: matt78 on Jan 19, 2006, 12:49 PM

Ennis: "I'm gonna tell you this one time, Jack f***in' Twist, an' I ain't foolin'. What I don't know - all them THINGS that I don't know - could get you killed if I should come to know them."

I too believe this was Ennis' way of expressing his hurt if he knew for sure that Jack had been with other men. When I saw this scene during my 2nd viewing I thought "Damn! He loves the hell outta this guy!"

Yeah the first time I saw it I wasn't sure, I thought it was more of a homophobic thing but yes, it was Ennis's way of showing love in an odd way.

j · « **Reply #18 on:** Jan 23, 2006, 08:38 PM »

My take on this isso much different than many of you.

Ennis del Mar: I'm gonna tell you this one time, Jack f***in' Twist, an' I ain't foolin'. What I don't know - all them things I don't know - could get you killed if I come to know them. I ain't jokin'.

I thought about this when it was happening and to me it was not a love moment but a frightening veiled threat

Now remember when Ennis gets the postcard back? When he makes the call he is calm. (OK many people can be calm when they fear the worse) BUT it was almost like Ennis KNEW that Jack was dead.

What if Ennis found out all about the other men in Jack's life and went ballistic?

Jack frequented Mexico looking for sex, and who knows where else? Ennis basically stayed pretty much asexsual.

Have to say though that whenhe was in bed and turned his wife over, well it got me HOT:

BTW I love the name ENNIS!!!!

J

Allan · « **Reply #19 on:** Jan 23, 2006, 08:51 PM »

Quote from: j on Jan 23, 2006, 08:38 PM

BTW I love the name ENNIS!!!!

Ennis literally means "island." Ennis Del Mar = Island of the Sea. And they say that no man is an island.....

j · « **Reply #20 on:** Jan 23, 2006, 08:58 PM »

Yes I knew that.He also was a great painter. : )
J

matt78 · « **Reply #21 on:** Jan 24, 2006, 07:38 AM »

Quote from: j on Jan 23, 2006, 08:38 PM

it was almost like Ennis KNEW that Jack was dead.
What if Ennis found out all about the other men in Jack's life and went ballistic?

Are you insane??? You're suggesting that Ennis killed Jack?

:o
Were you paying any attention at all to the rest of the film??

I think this is highly unlikely...

j · « **Reply #22 on:** Jan 24, 2006, 10:56 AM »

No I am not insane, just like to see all different avenues as this is my vocation.
That said there is *a fine line between love and hate*.
Get a grip,huh?
J

coguaro · « **Reply #23 on:** Jan 24, 2006, 12:50 PM »

impossible. There is no trace of it in the final.. its absurd considering the immense love tehy proved

coguaro

tweric · « **Reply #24 on:** Jan 24, 2006, 01:47 PM »

Yeah... it's already known that Ennis went berserk when he was questioning Jack if he had done what Ennis thought he did. Once it's confirmed, Ennis simply broke down...(He really can't kill Jack.. so all the emotions back fired...to Ennis himself)

It just reminded me... Ennis was quite calm when Jack's father told him about the other man (I did see Heath's nostrils expended a very slight little bit). If it weren't because of the big fight earlier that year that he knew Jack had something going on on the side, Ennis might have broken down when he heard about it from Jack's father...

j · « **Reply #25 on:** Jan 24, 2006, 01:53 PM »

Quote from: coguaro on Jan 24, 2006, 12:50 PM

impossible. There is no trace of it in the final.. its absurd considering the immense love tehy proved

coguaro

I don't think it is absurd.
Hey, I thought this board was about what WE as individuals thought about the characters and what they and others and quotes symbolized.
While it is not what I think happened I cannot rule it out, as there are a lot of things that lead to believe Ennis could or did do this.
Heck ever read great mysteries?

J

coguaro · « **Reply #26 on:** Jan 24, 2006, 02:21 PM »

of course everything is possible but... there is no reasons because Ennis homicide could been hidden in the story... and also it muder may give an ugly shading to the final and I think it would change the final message of the film.
Morevoer I think that Ennis never could be capable to premeditate murder... that isn't in his character. I could see him maybe kill someone because of an instinctive reaction (think about the scene on the fireworks on in the road after thanksgiven dinner!)

coguaro

j · « **Reply #27 on:** Jan 24, 2006, 04:11 PM »

Quote from: coguaro on Jan 24, 2006, 02:21 PM

of course everything is possible but... there is no reasons because Ennis homicide could been hidden in the story... and also it muder may give an ugly shading to the final and I think it would change the final message of the film.
Morevoer I think that Ennis never could be capable to premeditate murder... that isn't in his character. I could see him maybe kill someone because of an instinctive reaction (think about the scene on the fireworks on in the road after thanksgiven dinner!)

coguaro

Well let's say he found out about the other guy that Jack was talking about taking up to the family farm. He confronted Jack and his anger took over.
J

jimnick · « **Reply #28 on:** Jan 24, 2006, 04:29 PM »

Hi All:

This is very good discussion. sharing and debating the what if's and how about's is what we are all here foe. Let us all keep in mind that it's our differences of opinion that we find so valuable on this forum. Let us respectfully disagree with one another and encourage challenges to our individual view points. Everyone's input is valuable and worthy. If we wanted only to hear our own opinions, we could just talk to ourselves,.. and where would that get us?

This is a friendly place, Disagree, but be friendly about it.

j · « **Reply #29 on:** Jan 24, 2006, 04:56 PM »

Sounds good to me

J

Author Topic: All them THINGS that I don't know (Read 92951 times)

tweric