Author Topic: All them THINGS that I don't know  (Read 93192 times)

Offline Cowboy Cody

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Re: All them THINGS that I don't know
« Reply #90 on: Feb 06, 2006, 03:03 PM »
Ennis was voicing the best way how to let Cassie down, which at first was just to shut her out, but Ennis couldn't commit. Jack was the only one Ennis could ever commit to, ever. Jack was the same, he couldn't commit to his life with Lureen. He cared for, but didn't love her.
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Offline City Slickin' Cowboy

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Re: All them THINGS that I don't know
« Reply #91 on: Feb 06, 2006, 03:12 PM »
Ennis was voicing the best way how to let Cassie down, which at first was just to shut her out, but Ennis couldn't commit. Jack was the only one Ennis could ever commit to, ever. Jack was the same, he couldn't commit to his life with Lureen. He cared for, but didn't love her.

I noticed how women were not threats to their relationship.  Another man, however, would have sent either man completely over the edge.  Ennis was quite clear how he felt about that possibility.  Based on my observance of Jack, I think he would have gone nuts if Ennis had done anything he could catch wind of.
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Offline Cowboy Cody

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Re: All them THINGS that I don't know
« Reply #92 on: Feb 06, 2006, 03:36 PM »
Jack would have went ape-shit had Ennis done anything, which really isn't fair, but it is how two different people would have handled the situation. There's a tinge of jealousy to Jack, because I think he fell so hard for Ennis so early, the emotions were hard for Jack to keep the lid on, he needed so much more. He saw Ennis as a lifetime partner after the first night, and I think that scared Ennis somewhat, although he came to discover that he needed Jack as much as Jack needed him.
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Offline City Slickin' Cowboy

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Re: All them THINGS that I don't know
« Reply #93 on: Feb 06, 2006, 04:51 PM »
... He saw Ennis as a lifetime partner after the first night, and I think that scared Ennis somewhat, although he came to discover that he needed Jack as much as Jack needed him.

I really agree with you there.  Apparently he had given this much thought because he had no problem bringing it up that first night back on Brokeback.  It's a shame Jack died in this story, because I would have really enjoyed a sequel where they actually made a go of it.  There was enough fireworks between the two them to make an interesting story of their life together.  Lord knows their arguments would have drawn equal amounts of laughter and tears from an audience. 

IMO they surpassed Rhett and Scarlett as my favorite on-screen couple!!  ;D ;D ;D
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Offline stephan

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Re: All them THINGS that I don't know
« Reply #94 on: Feb 06, 2006, 04:58 PM »
... He saw Ennis as a lifetime partner after the first night, and I think that scared Ennis somewhat, although he came to discover that he needed Jack as much as Jack needed him.

I really agree with you there.

Hi guys, I really am appreciating what you're both saying here. For some time they seemed to be ok with getting together once in a while, though Jack took it like medicine. It was only later that they realised they couldn't stand it, but they didn't know how to fix it. So true of so many people nowadays too. How do you fix it ? It takes a lot of courage. Stephan

Offline Cowboy Cody

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Re: All them THINGS that I don't know
« Reply #95 on: Feb 06, 2006, 05:26 PM »
They know they belong together but can't fix it. The let the obstacles of life stand in their way, but I think Jack would have thrown it all away had Ennis said come to me. I know he would have, Ennis you putz.
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Offline backtobrokeback

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Re: All them THINGS that I don't know
« Reply #96 on: Feb 06, 2006, 05:51 PM »
Quote
Jack would have went ape-shit had Ennis done anything, which really isn't fair, but it is how two different people would have handled the situation. There's a tinge of jealousy to Jack, because I think he fell so hard for Ennis so early, the emotions were hard for Jack to keep the lid on, he needed so much more. He saw Ennis as a lifetime partner after the first night, and I think that scared Ennis somewhat, although he came to discover that he needed Jack as much as Jack needed him.

God it's like you're in my head and my life.  Maybe this is why I connect so strongly with the film.  SO very similar (except for the cowboy, poor, married to women and tragedy parts, of course). ;-)  My partner and I went through a similar courtship.

-backtobrokeback
He pressed his face into the fabric and breathed in slowly through his mouth and nose, hoping for the faintest smoke and mountain sage and salty sweet stink of Jack but there was no real scent, only the memory of it, the imagined power of Brokeback Mountain of which nothing was left but what he held in his hands. Make the pledge! Go Back to Brokeback whenever, however you can. Join the BTB Project.

Offline rane99

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Re: All them THINGS that I don't know
« Reply #97 on: Feb 06, 2006, 06:00 PM »
Ennis:  "I'm gonna tell you this one time, Jack f***in' Twist, an' I ain't foolin'. What I don't know - all them THINGS that I don't know - could get you killed if I should come to know them."

When I first saw BBM I was very intrigued with the exact wording of this line.  It gets caught up in Ennis's back country manner of speaking (no insult intended - it is just his background and who he is).  I was thrown off by Jack's response in which he thinks Ennis has said (paraphrased) 'If I find out, I'll kill you.'  Having read a lot of comments and trying to imagine what's going on with Ennis I initially took the line from Ennis as a homophobic warning and concren for Jack that if the 'Island Man", Ennis Del Mar, came to know "them things",  there were already going to be a helluva lot other people some of whom would not be very tolerant that would know as well and that could get Jack killed (if not already by the time the news gets to the isolated "island').  Ennis may be isolated but he does have a keen awareness (paranoia?) of what others observe.  He may be very quiet but he is not blind.This awareness also comes to play vice-versa when the bikers show a complete disregard for Ennis and his family at the fireworks (More ways than one!).  And also when he makes the comment to Cassie that he was probably not much fun.

What do you think?

lowpro



Yes.. in the short story I took it the same way as you. In the movie it seems  more as a  threat due to Ennis' jealousy.  That's why this movie and story is go great.  Makes ya think.
« Last Edit: Feb 06, 2006, 08:24 PM by rane99 »
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Offline Cowboy Cody

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Re: All them THINGS that I don't know
« Reply #98 on: Feb 06, 2006, 08:43 PM »
Backtobrokeback - that because I took that personality test today...I'm a counselor  ;D
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Offline proulxfan

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Re: All them THINGS that I don't know
« Reply #99 on: Feb 06, 2006, 11:41 PM »
Where do you see evidence of Jack being jealous? He disses Alma, but I don't think he was really jealous of her as much as seeing her as an obstacle.
Jack: " Nice to know you, Ennis Del Mar."

Offline Cowboy Cody

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Re: All them THINGS that I don't know
« Reply #100 on: Feb 06, 2006, 11:51 PM »
Proulxfan - True that he sees Alma as the obstacle, but in the one scene when they are having it out, you do that jelous (maybe envious would have been a better word choice) for what one has and you can't.
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Offline proulxfan

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Re: All them THINGS that I don't know
« Reply #101 on: Feb 07, 2006, 12:02 AM »
I just still think that Jack, as portrayed by Gyllenhaal, has a very generous spirit and wouldn't have been unduly upset if Ennis had "strayed", though that obviously was never gonna happen. And in the heat of the argument might have exploded about it to cover for his own affairs-the best defense is a good offense...
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Offline Cowboy Cody

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Re: All them THINGS that I don't know
« Reply #102 on: Feb 07, 2006, 12:05 AM »
Proulxfan - Didn't think it about that way...good point buddy!
You were goin' up there to go fishin'....NO SHIT! GIMME SEX!

Offline n061857

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Re: All them THINGS that I don't know
« Reply #103 on: Mar 25, 2006, 09:44 PM »
Interesting how they both spoke openly of their wives and other women (Jack's affair, Ennis' waitress) with jealousy but the thought of Jack with another man drives Ennis wild.  Its almost like the women arent a threat to them but another man could be, it could spoil something special and unique for them.

Actualy, I thought that Ennis broadened the scope of his definition of fidelity following this exchange.  I think his feelings of jealousy and the intensity of his love as defined by that cause him to end his relationship with Cassie. ?????

Offline sportstalk23

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Re: All them THINGS that I don't know
« Reply #104 on: Jul 04, 2008, 12:51 PM »
Ennis was a man of few words but those few words summed up exactly what he felt for Jack which there was a love there that he couldnt say with his words but hey I know jealous when I see it and Ennis had it practically written on his forehead, Ennis laughed of Jack and the "foreman's wife" but he understood clearly the implications of what Mexico stood for and that unlike him Jack pursued other sexual relationships with men of which I understand considering i think Jack used those to deal with not having the life he wanted with Ennis but when Ennis got in Jack's face about all them things I dont know that was code word for if I find out what your really doing behind my back you will face my wrath and lets face it who gets jealous over something that's just a fling that doesnt matter which everybody can see wasnt Jack and Ennis that was more than a fling, although I think the line about "boys like you" was typical Ennis like the " I aint queer line just trying to distance himself from implications of being gay, but I thought that was was very intense and quite hot when Ennis got all up in Jack's face and Jack not backing down either  :d)

manhattangirl

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Re: All them THINGS that I don't know
« Reply #105 on: Jul 06, 2008, 06:14 AM »
When Ennis warned Jack about the things he didn't know, as hurtful as Mexico may have been to him.  I can't help but feel, he figured there was someone else. 

Ennis knew Jack and his nature, his sexual nature. The one of thing that Ennis couldn't resist, but kept at a survivalable distance, almost like self regulating oneself, when he pushed back the date of the next meeting, Ennis must have to show himself  he had have some sense of control.

Ennis knew there might be someone else Jack was seeing.  He already let it be known he steps out on Lureen, with the "foreman's wife", what make Ennis think he wouldn't step out on him.  Jack was too free.   

Going to Mexico is bad enough, but going to one particular person, someone you may have a connection with, some one constant, waiting.  Well that's a whole new can of worms.  Who did Jack had in Texas?  And I have to hand it to Jack, he was smart enough not to say too much.  Jack knew Ennis equally as well. 

This I think Ennis wouldn't have been able to handle, not from his Jack.   He'll see him dead first.  The dynamics of these two guys were so revealing.  Ennis couldn't make Jack stay put, to be only for him,  to stay within the rules established so many years ago, not give himself away to someone else.  Jack couldn't make Ennis stay put, and to build a life with him.  Both wanting the same thing but in different ways.

« Last Edit: Jul 06, 2008, 08:53 AM by manhattangirl »

Offline aintfoolin

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Re: All them THINGS that I don't know
« Reply #106 on: Jul 06, 2008, 03:58 PM »
When Ennis warned Jack about the things he didn't know, as hurtful as Mexico may have been to him.  I can't help but feel, he figured there was someone else. 

Ennis knew Jack and his nature, his sexual nature. The one of thing that Ennis couldn't resist, but kept at a survivalable distance, almost like self regulating oneself, when he pushed back the date of the next meeting, Ennis must have to show himself  he had have some sense of control.

Ennis knew there might be someone else Jack was seeing.  He already let it be known he steps out on Lureen, with the "foreman's wife", what make Ennis think he wouldn't step out on him.  Jack was too free.   

Going to Mexico is bad enough, but going to one particular person, someone you may have a connection with, some one constant, waiting.  Well that's a whole new can of worms.  Who did Jack had in Texas?  And I have to hand it to Jack, he was smart enough not to say too much.  Jack knew Ennis equally as well. 

This I think Ennis wouldn't have been able to handle, not from his Jack.   He'll see him dead first.  The dynamics of these two guys were so revealing.  Ennis couldn't make Jack stay put, to be only for him,  to stay within the rules established so many years ago, not give himself away to someone else.  Jack couldn't make Ennis stay put, and to build a life with him.  Both wanting the same thing but in different ways.



 To hear Ennis tell it, he had made some kind of deal with his boss to meet with Jack. In Ennis's defense he WAS trying to swing these meetings around his job. Jack could seemingly take off when he wanted, Ennis did'nt have that luxury.

Unless there was a decision on his part to go * all or nothing* like Jack wanted , this would continue. The staus quo would remain in place. Ennis was at the mercy of his boss.

I agree, Ennis seemed like he suspected Jack of "things he don't know" outside of Mexico. That there were other men Jack was involved with. On the one hand Jack knew Ennis would spas out in a major way had he mentioned his affair with Randall, but on the other hand, maybe Jack should have been honest with Ennis, getting the whole truth out there. Would there even be an affair with Randall if Ennis was taking care of business?  They'd tangle about it for sure, but Ennis seriously physically harming  Jack over it? well...I don't know. I feel Ennis had to know why Jack was out there cheating ,although suspecting and having it confirmed are two different things. What he did'nt know, but suspected , what he did'nt see with his own eyes , is bad enough, but when he actually hears Jack unapologetically admitting to Ennis about other men...well thats a different story. Ennis does'nt wanna be reminded that he is the reason Jack is vulnerable to *outsiders* especially when he holds their  relatinship  so close to his heart. Jack said it, he was'nt Ennis, sex once or twice a year was unacceptable to him. Ennis held the whole relationship possessivly as Jack being his, but when the cat was away...well you know what the mice do. They play. MO.
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Offline sportstalk23

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Re: All them THINGS that I don't know
« Reply #107 on: Jul 06, 2008, 04:32 PM »
hmm good points raised aintfoolin and manhattan Jack was not like Ennis in which he could rein in himself in remember the "I'm not like you and a couple of high altitude f%cks a year" comment by Jack he had needs that he acted on and Ennis tried to make some concessions to be with Jack like his work schedule but he didnt want to make the BIG one that was make a life with Jack which had to be  beyond frustrating for Jack in my opinion Randall was not who had Jack's heart and at the end where the a-hole dad is telling Ennis about the foreman coming to Texas it had to be a blow to Ennis maybe he thought he lost Jack way before his death but to me it was all in those shirts  <^( how many of us would keep something that is a constant reminder of a person who caused you pain and heartache I've kept some things of old boyfriends but they werent the ones I loved and  broke my heart I got rid of those fast as soon as the tears dried and its something about Jack's mom where she seemed to know what Ennis meant to her son more than just friends when she invited him to come back to visit them again, like I said I think Mexico and Randall were substitutes for Jack when Jack told Ennis "hell yeah I been to Mexico" that was "hey I've got steam to blow off thanks to you it frustrates me Ennis that I want a life with you and your fear of reprisal if we do keeps driving me away, what do you expect me to do all year besides 4 or 5 fishing trips a year"

manhattangirl

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Re: All them THINGS that I don't know
« Reply #108 on: Jul 06, 2008, 10:44 PM »
To hear Ennis tell it, he had made some kind of deal with his boss to meet with Jack. In Ennis's defense he WAS trying to swing these meetings around his job. Jack could seemingly take off when he wanted, Ennis did'nt have that luxury.

Unless there was a decision on his part to go * all or nothing* like Jack wanted , this would continue. The staus quo would remain in place. Ennis was at the mercy of his boss.

I agree, Ennis seemed like he suspected Jack of "things he don't know" outside of Mexico. That there were other men Jack was involved with. On the one hand Jack knew Ennis would spas out in a major way had he mentioned his affair with Randall, but on the other hand, maybe Jack should have been honest with Ennis, getting the whole truth out there. Would there even be an affair with Randall if Ennis was taking care of business?  They'd tangle about it for sure, but Ennis seriously physically harming  Jack over it? well...I don't know. I feel Ennis had to know why Jack was out there cheating ,although suspecting and having it confirmed are two different things. What he did'nt know, but suspected , what he did'nt see with his own eyes , is bad enough, but when he actually hears Jack unapologetically admitting to Ennis about other men...well thats a different story. Ennis does'nt wanna be reminded that he is the reason Jack is vulnerable to *outsiders* especially when he holds their  relatinship  so close to his heart. Jack said it, he was'nt Ennis, sex once or twice a year was unacceptable to him. Ennis held the whole relationship possessivly as Jack being his, but when the cat was away...well you know what the mice do. They play. MO.

I agree with what you've said later in post, but I do sure have a problem with Ennis excuse about working.  Now this a man who'd quit jobs to be with Jack, and I know that's what he said to Jack not being like in the early days, he got "child support"  well in those early days he had a wife, and the kids.  That's why I don't think Jack totally bought into that excuse.  And in the end it wasn't the child support, it was him.

We see Ennis crumbling at the thought of Jack's quitting him.  And I think that was Ennis's problem just as you said that "possessive love"  he had for Jack.  He couldn't go all the way with him, but he had to have that "leash" just taut enough not let Jack stray too far.

Could Ennis kill Jack, sexual obsession, possessive love, and his rage all the ingredients, but Ennis wouldn't have warned him, he'd just  do it, unexpectedly like the punch.  But  Jack didn't care at this point, and he wasn't backing down.  Jack saw the irony of it, to kill him for wanting more, and not getting it.



   
 
« Last Edit: Jul 07, 2008, 05:51 AM by manhattangirl »

Offline tpe

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Re: All them THINGS that I don't know
« Reply #109 on: Jul 07, 2008, 08:09 AM »
Over the years, I have gradually come to the opinion that Ennis probably knew the "back story" behind Jack's affair with the Texas neighbor's wife.  Not that he knew about Randall explicitly -- but that Ennis understood this to be an indirect allusion to other affairs. 

It would seem that the same holds true about Jack's allusion to Mexico and Ennis seeming to know what it meant.  Granted, we don't know if Jack ever mentioned anything about Mexico prior to the Last Confrontation.  But I seriously doubt that Jack ever told him about what he did down South.  As is typical of Ennis, the trips to Mexico were part of the things he didn't "know", even though he understood preety much what it all meant.


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Re: All them THINGS that I don't know
« Reply #110 on: Jul 08, 2008, 06:07 AM »
In the ss, it was mentioned that Ennis heard about what went on in Mexico.  This just reminds him that he really couldn't control Jack, questioning Jack's fidelity, the one thing Ennis does takes to heart when it comes to Jack, remember in the ss when they were in motel room Ennis asks him did he "do it with other guys".   It must have driven him nuts just to think about it.  So he warns Jack, making him aware that he knows what Jack was up to, and that there were consequences. 

And maybe this points are the differences in both men, Not the idea of commitment because both were committed to each other, but the idea of repressing the very thing you need, Ennis felt he had to do it in order to survive, Jack resisted because that what he needed to live.  JMO.
« Last Edit: Jul 08, 2008, 06:35 AM by manhattangirl »

Offline smartestsonia

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Re: All them THINGS that I don't know
« Reply #111 on: Jul 08, 2008, 07:10 AM »
Interesting how they both spoke openly of their wives and other women (Jack's affair, Ennis' waitress) with jealousy but the thought of Jack with another man drives Ennis wild.  Its almost like the women arent a threat to them but another man could be, it could spoil something special and unique for them.

that make complete sense..Ennis culdnt bear Jack with some other man..Jack meant too much to him and he dint want to share that with some other man

Offline tpe

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Re: All them THINGS that I don't know
« Reply #112 on: Jul 08, 2008, 12:26 PM »

And maybe this points are the differences in both men, Not the idea of commitment because both were committed to each other, but the idea of repressing the very thing you need, Ennis felt he had to do it in order to survive, Jack resisted because that what he needed to live.  JMO.

A very subtle pouint here, although I agree with it.  I think many of us do the same in many circumstances, don't you agree?  That's why this will resonate in many of us, I think.

Offline tpe

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Re: All them THINGS that I don't know
« Reply #113 on: Jul 08, 2008, 12:29 PM »
that make complete sense..Ennis culdnt bear Jack with some other man..Jack meant too much to him and he dint want to share that with some other man

Welcome, smartestsonia.  :)

In a way, I think Ennis was afraid of how much Jack meant to him, and perhaps sought to control it in spite of himself and in spite of what he wanted.  That seems to be why he seems to keep Jack at some distance, and yet guard him jealously from other men.


Offline aintfoolin

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Re: All them THINGS that I don't know
« Reply #114 on: Jul 09, 2008, 06:45 AM »
I agree with what you've said later in post, but I do sure have a problem with Ennis excuse about working.  Now this a man who'd quit jobs to be with Jack, and I know that's what he said to Jack not being like in the early days, he got "child support"  well in those early days he had a wife, and the kids.  That's why I don't think Jack totally bought into that excuse.  And in the end it wasn't the child support, it was him.

We see Ennis crumbling at the thought of Jack's quitting him.  And I think that was Ennis's problem just as you said that "possessive love"  he had for Jack.  He couldn't go all the way with him, but he had to have that "leash" just taut enough not let Jack stray too far.

Could Ennis kill Jack, sexual obsession, possessive love, and his rage all the ingredients, but Ennis wouldn't have warned him, he'd just  do it, unexpectedly like the punch.  But  Jack didn't care at this point, and he wasn't backing down.  Jack saw the irony of it, to kill him for wanting more, and not getting it.



   
 

   Sorry, so long getting back ..work and all,

Jack was really pissed off about Ennis changing the dates, but feel that both Jack and Ennis were growing sick and tired of  the whole set up. The juggling, hiding and the  secrets and lies.

Ennis says he has to work and pay child-support until the girls are 18. Don't think he wanted any trouble from Alma  or the courts on that, she was not highly impressed in a positive way about "Jack Nasty" and how he played a factor in why she divorced Ennis.+ Ennis had this strong sense of duty to support them.  But that's his *other life* he's living at least two seperate lives, Jack being one, his girls and obligations another. He could'nt exactly tell his boss that he could'nt make the round up, or help shipping stock because he had to drive to the mountains and meet Jack.  Jack on the other hand , is part of a million-dollar family business.  He has more means and freedom to travel. Ennis has to juggle vacation time according to how his employer's ranch is run.  He's also older now and the days of quitting jobs was over. At least until his youngest child is 18.
 I felt he kept both  lives very compartmentalized in his mind., yes it has a direct effect on Jack having to live a double life  too, but he  was willing to give one up if he could have  the other.

When Jack says "we outta go to Mexico" , Ennis's reaction to it was not very promising. "Mexico"?.. All the traveling he's done is around the coffee pot trying to find the handle". Well duh? Here's your chance Ennis to *get out more*,  Jack was no longer impressed with cold hunting trips in Nov. He wanted to take Ennis to Mexico, have a little fun and just enjoy being with Ennis some place different, as some one once said , perhaps  where people tend to be a little more *open-minded about matters of the heart such as theirs than Riverton, Wyoming. Some place warm, where there's other people. Maybe settle there on a little ranch? hmmm.
 In any case these two were still talking two different languages in terms of where they stood in the relationship. Jack talking in terms of a permanent continuation , seeing Ennis more, not less. " never enough time", and Ennis talking more in terms of the status quo. More fishing, hunting, and any thing else that spoke of cold isolation in the Mts. I'm sure Jack enjoyed anytime alone with Ennis...until it had to end, that's what bothered him the most imo, it had to end and back to pretending again.

I really don't think Jack gave a damn about where they settled , as long as they were together, but he brought up Mexico , Ennis heard that, bringing it up again in response to Jack 's *better idea once*.  Hmmm...now it's "you been to Mexico Jack Twist? with that suspecting look on his face he has an idea what goes on in Mexico for boys like Jack. Boys like you? , the hell was HE thinking? This kind of threw me when I first saw it. All this time , Ennis is still seperating himself from Jack.  ( miscommunication  and disconnect at it's finest imo) I think it was the thing that set Jack  off on such a tear with Ennis.  He knew there was "all them things he did'nt know" existed, just did'nt wanna hear about it, discuss it ot even think about, but to kill Jack? really? Possesive? yes, obsessed? nah,  I think he was bluffing. .but it did  set Jack off to tell Ennis "just once" and for all that everything that he did  after Brokeback for 20 yrs. could be traced back to him , because of him he had done alot of deperate things, not all to be proud of.  He was looking for answers concerning the present and future, not the past. After all that has been said , not said ,and done  he finds Ennis ,was still lying to himself. Thanx.
..."yet he is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream"...

Offline tpe

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Re: All them THINGS that I don't know
« Reply #115 on: Jul 09, 2008, 07:08 AM »
 I really don't think Jack gave a damn about where they settled , as long as they were together, but he brought up Mexico , Ennis heard that, bringing it up again in response to Jack 's *better idea once*.  Hmmm...now it's "you been to Mexico Jack Twist? with that suspecting look on his face he has an idea what goes on in Mexico for boys like Jack. Boys like you? , the hell was HE thinking? This kind of threw me when I first saw it. All this time , Ennis is still seperating himself from Jack.  ( miscommunication  and disconnect at it's finest imo) I think it was the thing that set Jack  off on such a tear with Ennis.  He knew there was "all them things he did'nt know" existed, just did'nt wanna hear about it, discuss it ot even think about, but to kill Jack? really? Possesive? yes, obsessed? nah,  I think he was bluffing. .but it did  set Jack off to tell Ennis "just once" and for all that everything that he did  after Brokeback for 20 yrs. could be traced back to him , because of him he had done alot of deperate things, not all to be proud of.  He was looking for answers concerning the present and future, not the past. After all that has been said , not said ,and done  he finds Ennis ,was still lying to himself. Thanx.

I guess Ennis was perhaps trying to question Jack's faithfulness, and perhaps in some way justify his rejection of Jack's proposals over the years that they live together?


manhattangirl

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Re: All them THINGS that I don't know
« Reply #116 on: Jul 11, 2008, 06:32 AM »
We have a tendency to bypass that line,  "all those things I don't know, could get you killed if I ever come to know them.", but we shouldn't.    We don't want to think, that Ennis could actually do it, we love him. 

But this was the one moment, we see how deeply this "thing" went with him.  Up until that moment it was a guessing game, does he or doesn't  he love Jack, what did the pass twenty years mean to him, what was Jack to him?

No one, not Alma or Cassie kept him out of Jack's arms, neither of them could ease that need for Jack.  Ennis built his life around Jack.  But never understood what he was doing until the threat of him losing Jack could be for real. 

Oh yeah don't dismiss that line, because this is a man who couldn't come to terms with what going on, and couldn't come to terms with the thought it could be slipping away from him.

What would he do if  Jack just turned and walked away?   

 JMO.
« Last Edit: Jul 11, 2008, 06:41 AM by manhattangirl »

Offline tpe

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Re: All them THINGS that I don't know
« Reply #117 on: Jul 11, 2008, 07:08 AM »
We have a tendency to bypass that line,  "all those things I don't know, could get you killed if I ever come to know them.", but we shouldn't.    We don't want to think, that Ennis could actually do it, we love him. 

But this was the one moment, we see how deeply this "thing" went with him.  Up until that moment it was a guessing game, does he or doesn't  he love Jack, what did the pass twenty years mean to him, what was Jack to him?

No one, not Alma or Cassie kept him out of Jack's arms, neither of them could ease that need for Jack.  Ennis built his life around Jack.  But never understood what he was doing until the threat of him losing Jack could be for real. 

Oh yeah don't dismiss that line, because this is a man who couldn't come to terms with what going on, and couldn't come to terms with the thought it could be slipping away from him.

What would he do if  Jack just turned and walked away?   

 JMO.

Well, if we think of Jack's angry response to what Ennis said, we would think that Jack was telling Ennis that he had already killed him.  For me, Jack's response to Ennis's threat was not a counter-threast; his response was an acknowledgement of a life lost -- or wasted -- when it was theirs for the taking.


manhattangirl

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Re: All them THINGS that I don't know
« Reply #118 on: Jul 11, 2008, 07:27 AM »
Well, if we think of Jack's angry response to what Ennis said, we would think that Jack was telling Ennis that he had already killed him.  For me, Jack's response to Ennis's threat was not a counter-threast; his response was an acknowledgement of a life lost -- or wasted -- when it was theirs for the taking.
 


But take what you said about  Jack's meaning, and compare it to Ennis's life up until that point, it cost him, and now to lose it?   It was only at that moment did Jack understand.

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Re: All them THINGS that I don't know
« Reply #119 on: Jul 11, 2008, 07:30 AM »
But take what you said about  Jack's meaning, and compare it to Ennis's life up until that point, it cost him, and now to lose it?   It was only at that moment did Jack understand.

And I don't think Ennis understood until after he discovered the shirts.