Brokeback Mountain Forum @ ennisjack.com
The Movie & Story => Characters, Quotes & Scenes => Topic started by: jackster on Mar 19, 2007, 10:02 PM
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What do you think Ennis would have done with Jack's ashes up on Brokeback? He made a long journey to Lightning Flat expecting get them so he must have had a pretty good idea of what he was going to do with them when he got up to Brokeback. What? How and where do you think he would have disposed of them? Here and there at various significant points, all buried at one critical spot, or, what? How do you see Ennis del Mar committing such a significant and personally emotional act? Also, keep in mind he planned on doing this BEFORE he knew about the shirts. How do you think he would have changed his ideas after finding the shirts. Haven't seen this in any postings.
jackster
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Even after finding the shirts, he would have taken Jack to Brokeback, and scattered his ashes there. That was their place, their lives was lived there. Jack told him "so what we got now is Brokeback Mountain. Everything built on that. It's all we got, boy, f@#kin all, so I hope you know that if you don't never know the rest". No matter how painful that encounter was, that's the truest statement Jack made to him. Just think, Ennis might go back in the following year, as always to be with him. Maybe November, no August.
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I think he would have fulfilled Jack's wishes.
Where in BBM would he have disposed of them? It would be most beautiful if he selected the field where they fought and where Ennis got his shirt all bloodied. That would have been most beautiful.
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What a wonderful question!
I see Ennis doing something very simple. Perhaps, as Thomas suggested, he would scatter them in that field.
Or maybe near one of their camps, or over the water.
As to what might be different after finding the shirts, I think like everything else about Ennis, this would have been an internalized process. Meaning that what he did physically might not change from his original intent (go there, scatter ashes, check) but how he felt about it or what it meant to him on a deeper level would be changed.
Now you have me wondering...
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Now you have me wondering...
Hey, that's the idea. Of course the "fight field" seems an obvious answer, BUT, Ennis didn't realize the significance of that site until AFTER he found the shirts. I think until he found the shirt that Jack had treasured, that whole scene may have been one of some considerable pain and regret and one that did not play a big role in his vision of Jack and he. He did mention "that punch" in the Motel Siesta, but nothing more came of it. Of course all that changed after his trip to Jack's closet. But by that time, or nearly so, it was clear he wasn't going to get the ashes. So, on his way to Lightning Flat I think that maybe he felt the SNIT site where he first made LOVE would have been the most significant. I think the FNIT site (which I guess is really the same) was more pure animal sex and release, less about making love and being in love with Jack. Any other sites you think would be play a big role? And what would he actully do? Bury them, scatter them, whut?
jackster
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Good point jackster. I picture him scattering them rather than burying them. On the one hand, burying them makes Jack part of Brokeback forever. But there is something freeing to me in the gesture of scattering them and letting them go where they choose.
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I'd like to think of him scattering them on the campsite in commmeoration of SNIT and the dozy embrace. It seems somehow appropriate for Jack's ashes to be taken by the endless wind that blows on the mountain and set free as he wasn't in life. In my mind Jack associates with mercury, or quicksilver, to give it its old name;so I think of movement, even restlessness, in connection with him, and thus to commit him to the wind seems fitting.
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Here's a follow-up question. Would any of you think it possible that Ennis would keep a portion of the ashes for himself?
I don't see Jack objecting to it. And it would mean perhaps that Ennis had turned around?
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Hmm, good question Thomas. :s)
Although, upon reflection, I think he'd scatter all of the ashes. Because he has the shirts to connect him to Jack and that way Jack could be free.
I like the way you put it ww. O0
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Although, upon reflection, I think he'd scatter all of the ashes. Because he has the shirts to connect him to Jack and that way Jack could be free.
I know the thought sounds a bit morbid, but you are right: perhaps the shirts would have sufficed...
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I think he would have fulfilled Jack's wishes.
Where in BBM would he have disposed of them? It would be most beautiful if he selected the field where they fought and where Ennis got his shirt all bloodied. That would have been most beautiful.
Thats exactly where I think Ennis would spread Jack's ashes after he found the shirts. But before he found the shirts, he would probably choose the second tent site or have that on his mind. That's here he falls for Jack, I think.
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Thats exactly where I think Ennis would spread Jack's ashes after he found the shirts. But before he found the shirts, he would probably choose the second tent site or have that on his mind. That's here he falls for Jack, I think.
That was my second likely location. :)
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Interesting ideas folks. Seems like two types of locations, a place something HAPPENED or a place very BEAUTIFUL. Of course to our jaded eyes they're all beautiful. Would Ennis think that Jack wanted to be somewhere scenic, emotional? Or Both? Some graphics to go with the choices in no particular order:
SNIT site, not as scenic but really significant
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi139.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq313%2Fjackster545%2FSnitsite.jpg&hash=e6515f627bb42eac05788664697dab6eef6912f4)
Sheep Pasture Site "Up on the Mountain" very scenic
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi139.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq313%2Fjackster545%2FSheeppasture.jpg&hash=43e90d54a9e8a7415bcaba40dae46f8d5f30b02e)
The Fight Hill, significant but only later, after Ennis found the shirts
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi139.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq313%2Fjackster545%2FFightHill.jpg&hash=24c2ebefb701fca49b54313c1128b361ce522677)
The Dozy Embrace Site (is this the same as SNIT?) significant to Jack but did Ennis realize this and was it significant to him?
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi139.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq313%2Fjackster545%2FDozySite.jpg&hash=01d8d91bc37e1ddc67ad66e8728c341fb51c5028)
What about a later mature Campsite where they were just together?
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi139.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq313%2Fjackster545%2FLaterCamp.jpg&hash=11cb2b865c33b602e0a2b4edda983181b518b62c)
Or a very beautiful site where they just happened to ride their horses?
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi139.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq313%2Fjackster545%2FRiding.jpg&hash=6ac24e217b68d45a5114cbe8465a33e4a20e1e97)
Maybe all of them - it's a tough decision for poor Ennis.
jackster
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IMO:
I don't know if Ennis would see any one particular spot, but Brokeback as a whole. This was their place, every stream, hill, mountain, pasture. Brokeback was their world, their country. There was no where they couldn't go. No where they couldn't sit and get drunk, smoke a little pot, jump off a clift into a river, no where they couldn't make love. The only place where they were truly be themselves.
Ennis, I could see standing on hill over looking a stream, letting Jack ashes just go all over, everwhere. So no matter where he rode his horse on Brokeback Mountain Jack would alway be there, riding with him.
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What a wonderful question.
I can see Ennis going somewhere high up and simply scattering Jack's ashes to the wind, free to go wherever nature took him. Although the SNIT scene or the dozy embrace scene had significance, it was the whole mountain that was their special place and by scattering the ashes, Jack could continue to inhabit the whole mountain.
God, I'm getting all teary just thinking about it :\'(
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It is a pity, but I guess that Ennis would not have known of the significance of the camp site where the dozy embrace occurred. Only Jack probably attached very great significance to it, and Ennis may not have even remembered it at all. Perhaps Jack had the opportunity to mention it to Ennis at one point. If it was mentioned, then I am sure that Ennis would have seen the place as most apt.
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I'd like to think of him scattering them on the campsite in commmeoration of SNIT and the dozy embrace. It seems somehow appropriate for Jack's ashes to be taken by the endless wind that blows on the mountain and set free as he wasn't in life. In my mind Jack associates with mercury, or quicksilver, to give it its old name;so I think of movement, even restlessness, in connection with him, and thus to commit him to the wind seems fitting.
Wow this thread is killing me :\'( I definitely think he would have just scattered them and let them go where they may. I love the ideas of scattering a bit here and there to commemorate different stages of their relationship. And I do think that he still would have scattered them despite finding the shirts because he would be able to fulfill Jack's last wish and still have a tangible piece of him.
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Why limit them to one spot, wasn't their lives limited enough?
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I'd like to believe that Ennis would have tried to release Jack's ashes close to the SNIT site. As mentioned earlier, it's the place where they first made love. As emotionally repressed as Ennis was, I tend to believe even he would attempt to honor Jack by making his final resting place somewhere that was so absolutely special to both of them.
Ok...I need tissues now. :\'(
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I do think that he still would have scattered them despite finding the shirts
Dear Luv:
Hope you didn't misinterpret my suggestion here. I was only thinking that until AFTER Ennis found the shirts the whole fight scene and site may not of had much meaning to him. Can you recall the very FIRST time you watched BBM (of course!!), I remember being very upset and confused by that scene - Why were they fighting? It didn't make any sense to me I thought they loved each other. Only later, after Ennis (and us the audience) found the shirts did its deep value and meaning become clear, and of course when I watched it again that whole scene took on MUCH more meaning. I certainly think Ennis would have scattered Jack's ashes after finding the shirts, it's just that his ideas of where (or how) to do that MAY have changed when he discovered the importance of that one location/event to Jack 20 years earlier. He didn't know that importance when he was driving to Lightning Flat.
jackster
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That was the scene (the fight) that played over and over in my mind the morning after I first saw BBM and when I finally cried. I see the shirts symbolizing the summer as a whole not just that one event in which they came to be. I probably shouldn't have said still-lol I don't know if it would have changed any plans that he may have initially had and I wonder if by finding the shirts and all that they symbolized to him if that made it harder on him to not be able fulfill Jack's wishes. The sad fact is that even if he did get to scatter the ashes it was only half of Jack- the rest of him was still in Texas :-\\ I was thinking along the lines of just letting them go and as Welshwitch said set him free. I like to think Jack would find his way and settle in all of the spots that were especially meaningful to him.
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Wow this thread is killing me.
Yeah, it is tough. It hit me watching that scene at Jack’s house (again) when Ennis says “If you want me to take his ashes up there on Brokeback . . .” and, knowing people who have done this act, it is usually a deeply personal and emotional act, the last time you are “with” someone in some way in the physical world. And I got to thinking what did Ennis think he was going to do with this last bit of Jack, what was his plan for up there? He must of really wanted to do it, making the trip to see Jack's folks an' all.
And then, it all changed when he found the shirts, his shirt and Jack’s shirt, suddenly he had something else more tangible to remember Jack by and his whole view of things and some events changed. So then what, how would that have changed his plan and, Ennis being Ennis, the tough-guy we see cry five times, how would he handle this? What would he do up there all by himself.
jackster
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The sad fact is that even if he did get to scatter the ashes it was only half of Jack- the rest of him was still in Texas
I know I have a strange philosophy regarding this, but to me, as long as you have a small part of your ashes scattered by the person you love most, then it matters more than the rest that's being buried by someone you don't care about. Sure it would be nice for Ennis to scatter the whole content of Jack's ashes, but to me, just having a pinch of him and making the complete journey up to Brokeback would have simbolize him commitment to Jack and to honor his last wish. That to me would be enough to set him free.
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Why limit them to one spot, wasn't their lives limited enough?
To define is to limit. ;)
By limiting it to one spot, Ennis would make it hallowed ground. It would tie him to the Mountain forever, as much as we don't need multiple rings in a wedding.
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Great thread Jackster! Yes I think the FNIT and SNIT sites would be the rightful place. At the beginning of this scene we see Jack sitting still on his horse looking toward a majestic veiw of the rockface of the mountains, and Ennis is following him into the area with the mules but Jack appears to have already decided to set up camp on this site and yells something at Ennis to that effect. It is the place where they experienced every sense and emotion possible right there. consummated their love body and soul . Jack must have found something compelling about it. I can see Ennis sitting a long time up there alone reflecting while holding Jack's ashes. Maybe even "talking" to him ( or his spirit) Remembering all the good times and all the goofy stuff they did together. How they both hated Aquirre etc. I feel he would scatter them here . Yes, this would be the spot imo.
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That was the scene (the fight) that played over and over in my mind the morning after I first saw BBM and when I finally cried. I see the shirts symbolizing the summer as a whole not just that one event in which they came to be. I probably shouldn't have said still-lol I don't know if it would have changed any plans that he may have initially had and I wonder if by finding the shirts and all that they symbolized to him if that made it harder on him to not be able fulfill Jack's wishes. The sad fact is that even if he did get to scatter the ashes it was only half of Jack- the rest of him was still in Texas :-\\ I was thinking along the lines of just letting them go and as Welshwitch said set him free. I like to think Jack would find his way and settle in all of the spots that were especially meaningful to him.
True, it was only half of Jack. But I think that Ennis knew that he had Ennis entire in a deeper sense.
Even a pinch of Jack's ashes would have been enough to consecrate the Mountain in Ennis's mind for the remainder of his life, IMO.
I speculate here: when Ennis dies, I am sure that one of his last wishes would be to have his ashes scattered in the same place in BBM that he had hallowed by the deposition of Jack's ashes.
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Great thread Jackster! Yes I think the FNIT and SNIT sites would be the rightful place. At the beginning of this scene we see Jack sitting still on his horse looking toward a majestic veiw of the rockface of the mountains, and Ennis is following him into the area with the mules but Jack appears to have already decided to set up camp on this site and yells something at Ennis to that effect. It is the place where they experienced every sense and emotion possible right there. consummated their love body and soul . Jack must have found something compelling about it. I can see Ennis sitting a long time up there alone reflecting while holding Jack's ashes. Maybe even "talking" to him ( or his spirit) Remembering all the good times and all the goofy stuff they did together. How they both hated Aquirre etc. I feel he would scatter them here . Yes, this would be the spot imo.
It is a pity that a return to BBM was never realized -- even upon the death of Jack.
I suspect that with the way things turned out, Ennis would never return to BBM. But would it have been different if he did get a chance to scatter Jack's ashes in the mountain.
I think so.
If Ennis had done this, the Mountain and Jack would have become one and inseperable in his mind.
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Yes, in a spiritual sense but in my opinion mentally they already were . How could Ennis cast his eyes towards BBM and not think of his beloved Jack ever again? Since he could'nt get the ashes , would Ennis dare to part with the shirts and take them up there to bury? Or do they mean much more right there on his closet door? Maybe even on a return visit after the old man dies he can get the ashes from Jack's Moms (assuming she's still alive too and carry out Jack's wish or something personal of Jack's ( his belt buckle or the harmonica),anything that Jack held dear and had special meaning? bury it in a fav spot.? Postcards? hmmmmm?
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Maybe even on a return visit after the old man dies he can get the ashes from Jack's Mom
This was the first thing that came to my mind when she said "You come back and see us sometime". Once she knew Ennis was the guy in "other" shirt (which she didn't know, or at least wasn't sure about, until that moment) I think she was going to hatch a plan to get those ashes one way or another and get them up to Brokeback (via Ennis) where her beloved son Jack wanted to go. I think she desperately wanted Ennis to come back and get her son's ashes. It was going to happen, somehow, eventually. It goes without saying that mother's can be incredibly persistent and undaunted when it comes to their children's wishes.
jackster
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I agree. The future is open to possibilities as far as the fate of Jack's ashes is concerned.
Regardless, Jack's ashes symbolically resides in Ennis's heart, no? After all, the Mountain is a metaphor for their love.
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I agree. The future is open to possibilities as far as the fate of Jack's ashes is concerned.
After all, the Mountain is a metaphor for their love.
You bet. "That's all we got, f**kin' all"
jackster
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And I have no doubt she would give them to Ennis to fulfill her son's wishes. She had apparently respected his wishes concerning the shirts. Why not give them to the man whom Jack obviously loved so dearly and she could clearly see loved her son too and came willingly to take the ashes back to Jack's special place where he found his greatest happiness and felt most alive?
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And I have no doubt she would give them to Ennis to fulfill her son's wishes. She had apparently respected his wishes concerning the shirts. Why not give them to the man whom Jack obviously loved so dearly and she could clearly see loved her son too and came willingly to take the ashes back to Jack's special place where he found his greatest happiness and felt most alive?
Well put aintfoolin. Despite Jack's references to his mother being a Pentecost and knowing some of the related lifestyle beliefs, I have to believe she would have honored those wishes. Mothers are very in tune to someone outside of the family who truly loves one of their children.
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I have a sort of vision of Jack's mother substituting some normal ashes for his in the urn ( or whatever) his father intends to put in the family plot. I like to think of her handing Jack's ashes to Ennis when he comes back and Mr T is out of the way - and I suppose I see her putting them, so as not to draw attention to them, into a paper grocery sack, just like the one Ennis was carrying when he first set eyes on Jack.
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Nonetheless, I can't help thinking that there is a deep sense of fatalism in Jack's mom -- a sense of resignation to how things are. Might this make her leave things as they are? I suspect that she understood that, no matter where Jack's ashes lay, his heart and his memory lay with those who loved him deeply.
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Nonetheless, I can't help thinking that there is a deep sense of fatalism in Jack's mom -- a sense of resignation to how things are.
This is a real interesting thought tpe. I hadn't thought of her like that. I guess there's two ways (at least) to look at her situation - One where she figured there was nothing she could do about it (fatalistic), or another of "Damnit, I'm gonna stick it out with this bastard if it kills me, no matter what". Maybe they're both the same?
Curious that maybe she had the same fatalistic trait that Ennis had, (If you can't fix it, . . . . ) and maybe this is part of what drew Jack to Ennis, Jack saw this trait in Ennis which reminded him of his mother. And Jack, for himself, saw what it did to her and wanted to be entirely different in his own personality. Uh oh, I guess we better call Dr. Freud in here . . .
:s)
jackster
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This is a real interesting thought tpe. I hadn't thought of her like that. I guess there's two ways (at least) to look at her situation - One where she figured there was nothing she could do about it (fatalistic), or another of "Damnit, I'm gonna stick it out with this bastard if it kills me, no matter what". Maybe they're both the same?
Curious that maybe she had the same fatalistic trait that Ennis had, (If you can't fix it, . . . . ) and maybe this is part of what drew Jack to Ennis, Jack saw this trait in Ennis which reminded him of his mother. And Jack, for himself, saw what it did to her and wanted to be entirely different in his own personality. Uh oh, I guess we better call Dr. Freud in here . . .
:s)
jackster
To be sure, there is a streak of fatalism in Ennis also. Yes, could that have been a means by which Ennis and jack's mom understood each other. Ennis, like jack's mom, never questioned John Twist's authority in the determination of the fate of Jack's ashes. "Yes sir." was all he could say, even though his heart was breaking. Like Jack's mom, Ennis was probably used to being bypassed...
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I agree. The future is open to possibilities as far as the fate of Jack's ashes is concerned.
Regardless, Jack's ashes symbolically resides in Ennis's heart, no? After all, the Mountain is a metaphor for their love.
:\'( Very well said. I just read the entire thread... IMO, if the ashes have been given to Ennis he would I have scattered them on Brokeback and (don't ask me why) in the creek where we saw Ennis washing the dishes and Jack washing the clothes.
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:\'( Very well said. I just read the entire thread... IMO, if the ashes have been given to Ennis he would I have scattered them on Brokeback and (don't ask me why) in the creek where we saw Ennis washing the dishes and Jack washing the clothes.
This is the same as the campsite where the FNIT and SNIT happened, no? In any case, I do think that scattering Jack's ashes in the water of that stream is also aptly symbolic. It would carry Jack's ashes to rest over the entire mmountain, starting from the place where, in many ways, it all began.
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Life began in water - so maybe it's appropriate for Jack's ashes to end there. In a way the ashes could combine the four elements - they are the result of burning, some could fall to earth, some be blown away in the air and some carried off by water - and Jack would become, as we all eventually do, part of the Earth and one day part of the universe.
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Some of you may not go for this, but it has occured to me that when Ennis is a doing a chore (what he's best at right?) anyway, two times I can think of, when he's completing a chore for someone he uses the short vernacular phrase "There ya' go", once while serving up dinner for Jack in the Brokeback camp and then again maybe ten years later to Alma when he brings the Thanksgiving dishes into the kitchen. I could sort of see him with Jack's ashes up on Brokeback saying "There ya' go" to Jack as he scattered them on the mountain. What do you think? What WOULD he say? I swear.
jackster
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Life began in water - so maybe it's appropriate for Jack's ashes to end there. In a way the ashes could combine the four elements - they are the result of burning, some could fall to earth, some be blown away in the air and some carried off by water - and Jack would become, as we all eventually do, part of the Earth and one day part of the universe.
Fire, water, earth. Ashes, stream, Mountain.
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Some of you may not go for this, but it has occured to me that when Ennis is a doing a chore (what he's best at right?) anyway, two times I can think of, when he's completing a chore for someone he uses the short vernacular phrase "There ya' go", once while serving up dinner for Jack in the Brokeback camp and then again maybe ten years later to Alma when brings the Thanksgiving dishes into the kitchen. I could sort of see him with Jack's ashes up on Brokeback saying "There ya' go" to Jack as he scattered them on the mountain. What do you think? What WOULD he say? I swear.
jackster
Interesting, jackster!
I would rather think he would be pretty much silent -- choked with tears -- the same way he was when he found the shirts...
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I can picture Ennis sitting on a log holding the urn saying: Jack, jack I'm sorry for not realizing how much we meant to each other.,Sorry I was not able to give you what you needed, but now since I found our shirts that you kept all this time in your closet...Yes I found them . Your mom led me to them and gave them to me . I will keep them close to me as long as I live cause they are all I have left,they are you and me together forever...this is how I see them and I thank you for that lil darlin..... Damn Jack .If I just had the chance ta see ya one last time...I swear I'd never let you go. I know I never told ya this Jack but I love ya, I've always loved ya and I feel so bad about that. Finally: Please forgive me Jack for not bein there for ya when you needed me most of all. I have your ashes here with me and I'm gonna spread em up here on Borkeback like ya wanted.I hope ya like where I'm gonna spread em. It's the spot where we gave ourselves to each other,and you sang Waterwalkin Jesus and stuff. I will visit you often in my heart and in my soul (takes a drink of their fav whiskey) Here's to you lil darlin . I love ya Jack F-ckin Twist. (Spreads ashes)
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Wow, you two - (aintfoolin' & tpe) - one of you thinks he'll be pretty much silent another thinks he'll give a 200+ word soliloquy. This forum's got range! To be honest I'd have to go with the silent version, I can't see Ennis coming up with a string a' 20 words let alone 200. To paraphrase Jack: "Friend, that's more words than you spoke in the past three years" That's not to say he wouldn't be thinkin' it (pretty much as you laid out aintfoolin'), I think he would, and possibly more. But I don't think he could actually say them, I think he'd get too choked up being as emotional as he is.
jackster
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OT: it is a good thing that we all don't think alike! :)
A silent Ennis is golden.
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Life began in water - so maybe it's appropriate for Jack's ashes to end there. In a way the ashes could combine the four elements - they are the result of burning, some could fall to earth, some be blown away in the air and some carried off by water - and Jack would become, as we all eventually do, part of the Earth and one day part of the universe.
:\'( :\'( :\'(
This thread is no good to cure PBS, it's beautifuly said WW.
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I also see a silent Ennis. Crying as he spread the ashes, overwhelmed by his emotions. But I also see him with a sence of peace afterward.
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I also see a silent Ennis. Crying as he spread the ashes, overwhelmed by his emotions. But I also see him with a sence of peace afterward.
In some sense, crying is a form of "speaking", no? It is a way of acknowledging to oneself that one is broken, and that don't fear to show it.
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In some sense, crying is a form of "speaking", no? It is a way of acknowledging to oneself that one is broken, and that don't fear to show it.
I see crying as a form of "communicating" rather than "speaking". Ennis definately cried a lot--more so than Jack. That obviously showed that he's a broken man, but is he that fearless about showing it?
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I see crying as a form of "communicating" rather than "speaking". Ennis definately cried a lot--more so than Jack. That obviously showed that he's a broken man, but is he that fearless about showing it?
Yes, this is what I meant, as speaking to me is a form of communication.
No. I don't think Ennis was fearless of showing it. He wanted to appear strong and plaid, even though that is certainly not the case inside. Which is why I think he would have been very restrained if he would have been able to dispose of Jack's ashes. Even to himself, he was afraid to showing how he felt...
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The reason I think he would be more verbal is because of the way he spoke to the shirts. They are symbolic of Jack's words so maybe the ashes are symbolic of the very essence of Jack. I think the finality of the whole scenario would cause him to express the way he felt, isolated and alone with Jack's ashes yeah, I think he'd cry but I also think it would be a time when Ennis truly breaks down and tells *Jack* how he really feels about him. Where he spreads the ashes will become *sacred* ground to him, a final resting place for the love of his life . I think he'd cry in communicating his greif, alot but speak endearment at this very private little *funeral * /*ceremony*for him and Jack. My humble opinion.
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I see crying as a form of "communicating" rather than "speaking". Ennis definately cried a lot--more so than Jack. That obviously showed that he's a broken man, but is he that fearless about showing it?
I think lthat, ike his violent reactions, Ennis crying reveals most of all a sense of helplessness. It is the same with a child who cries, no? I think all of us can relate to this...
But if he did get to scatter Jack's ashes, I believe that he would cry not because of any sense of helplessness. I think he would cry at that moment because he knows Jack was coming home.
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The reason I think he would be more verbal is because of the way he spoke to the shirts. They are symbolic of Jack's words so maybe the ashes are symbolic of the very essence of Jack. I think the finality of the whole scenario would cause him to express the way he felt, isolated and alone with Jack's ashes yeah, I think he'd cry but I also think it would be a time when Ennis truly breaks down and tells *Jack* how he really feels about him. Where he spreads the ashes will become *sacred* ground to him, a final resting place for the love of his life . I think he'd cry in communicating his greif, alot but speak endearment at this very private little *funeral * /*ceremony*for him and Jack. My humble opinion.
It would be most beautiful if he would say those simple words that mattered the most: "I love you."
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I have no doubt he would say them before he left the mountain, but knowing Ennis he'd say them softly as if someone might hear and through tears of greif. But that's Ennis I suppose. He did love him though.
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I think he would finally say that one word that he never told Jack while he was living. He would actually say the word "Love". He knew of the word, he knew what he meant. He ask Alma, Jr. when she told him of her marriage, " Does he loves you?" he knew the importance of this little word.
Would he finally say, "I love you, Jack" as Jack's ashes was let go over Brokeback?
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The fact that he finally did ask that question of Alma Jr. does seem to indicate that he had finally understood full well the significance of the word in the light of his relationship with Jack. I remember the thread where members debate whether Ennis whispered "I love you" when he found the shirts. If this is true, then it is easy to imagine Ennis saying the same thing if he was able to scatter Jack's ashes up on the Mountain...
And as aintfoolin had said, he would have probably said this softly -- almost to himself: as a self-affirmation as much as an open declaration.
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Wow. This thread is a killer.
By all means Ennis would follow Jack's wishes... That first-year campsite would be most fitting. Some of the ashes at the old tent site, some at the old campfire site (Ennis looks around and finds an old, old whiskey bottle), some in the stream....
I wonder if he would keep a tiny bit of the ashes, though... maybe put them in the shirt pocket...
My mum has given instructions for her ashes, when the time comes, to be scattered over a lake that is special to her. But I wonder if we will keep some in an urn to be passed around among us siblings...
And speaking of ashes going different places, as we know half of Jack's ashes were in Texas, half in LF. Some people have an idea that Mrs. Twist put the ashes in the paper sack with the shirts. I don't see her putting all of them in there, but maybe a small amount? In an old whiskey bottle or something....
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Wow. This thread is a killer.
By all means Ennis would follow Jack's wishes... That first-year campsite would be most fitting. Some of the ashes at the old tent site, some at the old campfire site (Ennis looks around and finds an old, old whiskey bottle), some in the stream....
I wonder if he would keep a tiny bit of the ashes, though... maybe put them in the shirt pocket...
My mum has given instructions for her ashes, when the time comes, to be scattered over a lake that is special to her. But I wonder if we will keep some in an urn to be passed around among us siblings...
And speaking of ashes going different places, as we know half of Jack's ashes were in Texas, half in LF. Some people have an idea that Mrs. Twist put the ashes in the paper sack with the shirts. I don't see her putting all of them in there, but maybe a small amount? In an old whiskey bottle or something....
Indeed, a killer thread.
I wonder if Ennis would even consider breathing Jack's ashes.
Whne my father was cremated, I remember distinctly watching as they opened the canister where they ground the remains of his calcified bones. When they opened the canister, a cloud of ash puffed out, and, being near, I could not help but breath some of it in...
Call this morbid: for me, it was intensely moving.
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I think lthat, ike his violent reactions, Ennis crying reveals most of all a sense of helplessness. It is the same with a child who cries, no? I think all of us can relate to this...
But if he did get to scatter Jack's ashes, I believe that he would cry not because of any sense of helplessness. I think he would cry at that moment because he knows Jack was coming home.
I absolutely agree! It would be a different kind of crying. A sence of peace and accomplishment of duty. It would probably be the only cry that is different from all the other cries from him.
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I think he would finally say that one word that he never told Jack while he was living. He would actually say the word "Love". He knew of the word, he knew what he meant. He ask Alma, Jr. when she told him of her marriage, " Does he loves you?" he knew the importance of this little word.
Would he finally say, "I love you, Jack" as Jack's ashes was let go over Brokeback?
I believe he would. He finally understood the depth of Jack's love for him.
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Indeed, a killer thread.
I wonder if Ennis would even consider breathing Jack's ashes.
Whne my father was cremated, I remember distinctly watching as they opened the canister where they ground the remains of his calcified bones. When they opened the canister, a cloud of ash puffed out, and, being near, I could not help but breath some of it in...
Call this morbid: for me, it was intensely moving.
First of all, hugs to you, TPE. Some people believe that by taking in our love ones ashes, either by breathing in or swallowing, we we're making them part of us forever. Others put ashes in a locket to be worn. They all seem valid to me. They are ways to keep our love ones near us.
I don't know if Ennis will keep part of Jack's ashes, but the shirts represent the same thing for him.
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Indeed, a killer thread.
I wonder if Ennis would even consider breathing Jack's ashes.
Whne my father was cremated, I remember distinctly watching as they opened the canister where they ground the remains of his calcified bones. When they opened the canister, a cloud of ash puffed out, and, being near, I could not help but breath some of it in...
Call this morbid: for me, it was intensely moving.
Not morbid, Thomas. Thank you for sharing this with us.
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Thanks Edgar.
I think a lot of us can empathize directly with the topic of this thread. It is not a simple detail: the deposition of the ashes of a loved one. We could not help but put ourselves into Ennis's shoes and try to think of what we might have done with Jack's ashes.