Brokeback Mountain Forum @ ennisjack.com
The Movie & Story => Characters, Quotes & Scenes => Topic started by: kcristob on Feb 01, 2006, 12:49 PM
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scenes that keep coming back to me as interesting to compare and contrast are the wrestling scenes. I would love to hear if others have compared them:
**Ennis and Jack wrestling before they go down the mountain: Culminating in Ennis punching Jack
**Ennis and Alma wrestling in the snow: Ennis' concern over hurting her because he was too rough
Ideas? Thoughts?
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Did Ennis and Alma wrestle in the snow? I don't recall.
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Yes! It's when Ennis and Elma are sledding, and they dissolve into a wrestling match - stuffing snow at each other. Ennis kind of pulls back and says "did I hurt you?"
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Yes! It's when Ennis and Elma are sledding, and they dissolve into a wrestling match - stuffing snow at each other. Ennis kind of pulls back and says "did I hurt you?"
Thanks. That is interesting. If I can compare them, could it be just an expression of love? The snow sledding scene is really sweet and does capture Ennis' initial relationship with Alma. In this, Ennis is the macho figure to protect his wife.
To make a connection between these two scenes, I will need to think about it more. :) Or maybe others can shed some light on this.
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What strikes me about it is how rough the boys can play as opposed to male/female play. It must be a relief to not always be concerned about hurting your partner.
I don't know...since I don't think anything in this movie is unintentional - it seems important. I've always been struck by the snow scene and am trying to put my finger on why it's important.
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Ennis feels desperately "out of control" in his life. Thus, his need to dominate and control others.
It appears any intimacy invokes rage.
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After Ennis and Alma both fall in the snow, it is Alma starting the "fight". Interesting I'd say
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I'm not sure if I see a strong connection between the two, but the first one is definitely a captivating scene because it shows how confused Ennis was -- after he found out they were leaving early, he was obviously devestated, and not, in my opinion, only because of the month of pay he'd be missing out on. So when Jack went up to get him and they started playing, I think he had been mulling it over long enough to be thinking things like "It's you that did this to me, it's you that's making me this way." I think it's a beautiful scene for the complex emotion it shows and evokes.
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Hi, All ~
I absolutely agree with Jamie's interpretation of the wrestling scene on BBM. In fact, I was rather confused by the tenderness Ennis displays toward Alma both when they get married (he takes her face in his hand before kissing her) and during sledding (when he puts snow on her head and laughs). Was that the only time he smiled with her? I still don't have the script-movie copy yet, so I haven't read the motivations. I really do want to read the script, because the move adds so much (well, obviously), but some scenes, to me, run counter to the emotional personas created in the short story.
In terms of guessing about Ennis' emotions, the fight at the July 4th picnic, as well as Ennis' determination to hand off of the girls at the grocery store, both elicited frightened looks from Alma, which also made me wonder whether Ennis showed a temper at home. Not a stretch, considering the way he grabs Alma's wrist in the kitchen after Thanksgiving. His threat to her, in the ss, was much stronger, that he would make her and her new husband "eat the floor" or something to that effect. However, the girls never seemed scared of him at all.
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The boys also were playful/wrestling when Aguirre saw them. Did not Ennis take his hat off while laying beside Jack, cover their faces and kiss him? Big contrast to what happened durign the lasso scene.
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Did not Ennis take his hat off while laying beside Jack, cover their faces and kiss him?
Wow, I never noticed that ('only' seen it 6 times) -- I hope it's true! I thought they just fall to the ground and then we see Aguirre... Gotta go see it again now...darn just when I thought PBS was finally wearing off...!
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I did not notice this. I am now most intrigued and shall watch for it and report back.
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Also during the wrestling scene, the scenery around Aguirre is the absolute ugliest of the film..dead tree, etc. I guess Ang really wants us to know Aguirre is a negative force.
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Did not Ennis take his hat off while laying beside Jack, cover their faces and kiss him?
Wow, I never noticed that ('only' seen it 6 times) -- I hope it's true! I thought they just fall to the ground and then we see Aguirre... Gotta go see it again now...darn just when I thought PBS was finally wearing off...!
Yes, Ennis did. But when you have the best buddy to wrestle with, would you? haha. :D
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Did not Ennis take his hat off while laying beside Jack, cover their faces and kiss him?
Wow, I never noticed that ('only' seen it 6 times) -- I hope it's true! I thought they just fall to the ground and then we see Aguirre... Gotta go see it again now...darn just when I thought PBS was finally wearing off...!
Yes, he did kiss him. I love that scene, but it's so brief. It does show that Jack and Ennis could be wrestling and horseplaying around in a loving way, without it becoming what it did on their last day on Brokeback, when Enni was so miserable without even knowing why.
I think Alma was frightened in the 4th of July scene maybe because she hadn't really seen too much of Ennis' temper exploding--although on the other hand, she does seem to be trying to placate him by saying "let's just move." It's interesting that the girls don't seem to be afraid of him at all. If he was really that explosive at home, you'd think they'd want to stay away from him, but in the Thanksgiving scene, they run after him.
camoom
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Also during the wrestling scene, the scenery around Aguirre is the absolute ugliest of the film..dead tree, etc. I guess Ang really wants us to know Aguirre is a negative force.
To be honest, I'm not sure that Aguirre is really that negative of a character. He never gives any sign that he thinks poorly of them because of what he saw, at least not that I can remember. He even waits until they're done before he rides down (that's in the short story). He must have had a gun at the time, yet he didn't shoot at them, didn't yell at them, didn't call them derogatory names. The worst he ever said was, "You ranch stiffs ain't never no good." When he tells Jack there's no work for him next summer, he makes it clear why, but again, nothing really derogatory, just plain talk--and really, he's their employer. They were hired to do a job and they didn't do a very good job because they were busy, ah, doing other things. Aguirre's mad about that, sure, but where is he showing homophobia? For all we know, this is happening every dang summer, and he's getting tired of it! ;D
I mean, seriously, someone tell me where Aguirre shows that he's angry over anything over than their neglect of the sheep.
camom
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Did not Ennis take his hat off while laying beside Jack, cover their faces and kiss him?
Wow, I never noticed that ('only' seen it 6 times) -- I hope it's true! I thought they just fall to the ground and then we see Aguirre... Gotta go see it again now...darn just when I thought PBS was finally wearing off...!
Yes, Ennis did. But when you have the best buddy to wrestle with, would you? haha. :D
A cowboy would, gay or straight, when it comes to sex, the hat comes off, it's only polite to do so.
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Cowboy Cody: Somehow there is a sexual tension in that wrestling. Ennis and Jack like it. And me too.. ;)
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To be honest, I'm not sure that Aguirre is really that negative of a character. He never gives any sign that he thinks poorly of them because of what he saw, at least not that I can remember. He even waits until they're done before he rides down (that's in the short story). He must have had a gun at the time, yet he didn't shoot at them, didn't yell at them, didn't call them derogatory names. The worst he ever said was, "You ranch stiffs ain't never no good." When he tells Jack there's no work for him next summer, he makes it clear why, but again, nothing really derogatory, just plain talk--and really, he's their employer. They were hired to do a job and they didn't do a very good job because they were busy, ah, doing other things. Aguirre's mad about that, sure, but where is he showing homophobia? For all we know, this is happening every dang summer, and he's getting tired of it! ;D
I mean, seriously, someone tell me where Aguirre shows that he's angry over anything over than their neglect of the sheep.
camom
Wow, interesting observations. Certainly Aguirre's persona is meant to be symbolic of a segment of the population in the 60's - probably the majority of the population. I remember being surprised at my first viewing that Aguirre did NOT do more than make a comment. He really is pretty benign. I do think there is an argument for his being homophobic in that he didn't hire Jack again AND he made the comment about finding ways to pass the time - both comments at the same time. And he even very pointedly says "there's no work for YOU." I think that's a reference to what he witnessed.
But, he certainly could have been more evil than he was. Good thoughts!
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>>>Aguirre's mad about that, sure, but where is he showing homophobia? For all we know, this is happening every dang summer, and he's getting tired of it!
lol - yes, he's probably thinking 'oh hell, not this again - ranch hands wrestling each other and leaving the darn sheep to fend for themselves! lol
No I don't think Aguirre reacted to what he saw as much as I thought he would. In fact, when he was shown watching them wrestling, I think he hardly reacted at all. And he did not let them know he knew what was going on when he spoke to Jack about his uncle being ill. One more thing: are we to assume they went on to have sex after they were wrestling each other and Aguirre saw this? Sorry, my dirty mind I know lol.
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In her Story to Screen essay, Proulx discusses how this behavior manifested itself with these guys alone up in the mountains for long periods of time---with the knowledge that employers probably knew, too. The employers just wanted the work to get done. Aguirre's final scene in the trailer with Jack is filled with loathing...he belittles Jack terribly with sarcasm and the stem the rose bit.
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I thought Randy Quaid was excellent as Aguirre. And when he said to Jack 'You guys weren't getting paid to watch the dogs babysit the sheep while you stem the rose.' I thought that was a very poetic line and quite a surprising turn of phrase. As I said before, I don't think he reacted at all - when he was seen watching them wrestling, my thought was 'oh god, something awful is about to happen.'
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Also during the wrestling scene, the scenery around Aguirre is the absolute ugliest of the film..dead tree, etc. I guess Ang really wants us to know Aguirre is a negative force.
To be honest, I'm not sure that Aguirre is really that negative of a character. He never gives any sign that he thinks poorly of them because of what he saw, at least not that I can remember. He even waits until they're done before he rides down (that's in the short story). He must have had a gun at the time, yet he didn't shoot at them, didn't yell at them, didn't call them derogatory names. The worst he ever said was, "You ranch stiffs ain't never no good." When he tells Jack there's no work for him next summer, he makes it clear why, but again, nothing really derogatory, just plain talk--and really, he's their employer. They were hired to do a job and they didn't do a very good job because they were busy, ah, doing other things. Aguirre's mad about that, sure, but where is he showing homophobia? For all we know, this is happening every dang summer, and he's getting tired of it! ;D
I mean, seriously, someone tell me where Aguirre shows that he's angry over anything over than their neglect of the sheep.
camom
So true. I thought Aguirre's "mean" stare was bad enough :p Yet again, if he is like those "g-bashing" kinda guy, he may have call people to beat'em up or something.
I read Annie Proulx's essay in the "Story to Screenplay" that she mentioned a comment from an old sheep rancher. Basically, Ennis and Jack's behavior is "expected". So, I think, to Aguirre, he cares more about getting the job done than knowing the boys stemming the rose.
Oh, BTW, I only saw the boys's heads getting close after wrestling, hm.... 4th viewing!! hehehehe
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I think Aguirre is most pissed off about them leaving the sheep alone, as I sayd in another thread... but it's ironic... he hires them to break the rules then don't hire them again for breaking his rule that was brakeing the rules...
did that come out alright? I got dizzy writing it lol
And yes thay do kiss under that hat, the short story describes it as them just finished having sex and putting theyr cloths on so no wonder Ennis was playful
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Also during the wrestling scene, the scenery around Aguirre is the absolute ugliest of the film..dead tree, etc. I guess Ang really wants us to know Aguirre is a negative force.
To be honest, I'm not sure that Aguirre is really that negative of a character. He never gives any sign that he thinks poorly of them because of what he saw, at least not that I can remember. He even waits until they're done before he rides down (that's in the short story). He must have had a gun at the time, yet he didn't shoot at them, didn't yell at them, didn't call them derogatory names. The worst he ever said was, "You ranch stiffs ain't never no good." When he tells Jack there's no work for him next summer, he makes it clear why, but again, nothing really derogatory, just plain talk--and really, he's their employer. They were hired to do a job and they didn't do a very good job because they were busy, ah, doing other things. Aguirre's mad about that, sure, but where is he showing homophobia? For all we know, this is happening every dang summer, and he's getting tired of it! ;D
I mean, seriously, someone tell me where Aguirre shows that he's angry over anything over than their neglect of the sheep.
camom
So true. I thought Aguirre's "mean" stare was bad enough :p Yet again, if he is like those "g-bashing" kinda guy, he may have call people to beat'em up or something.
I read Annie Proulx's essay in the "Story to Screenplay" that she mentioned a comment from an old sheep rancher. Basically, Ennis and Jack's behavior is "expected". So, I think, to Aguirre, he cares more about getting the job done than knowing the boys stemming the rose.
Oh, BTW, I only saw the boys's heads getting close after wrestling, hm.... 4th viewing!! hehehehe
I read a article before. Some specialists said it did happen that cowboys/ranchers/constractors had sex in the midwest in the early/middle 90s. So I am thinking it was not first time that Aguirre saw two ranchers have fun together.
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Cybernaut - you are right. I shouldn't but I will. The bf and I wrestle around like that. I know what underlies that action....someone get me a fan...pronto! ;D
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I think Aguirre is most pissed off about them leaving the sheep alone, as I sayd in another thread... but it's ironic... he hires them to break the rules then don't hire them again for breaking his rule that was brakeing the rules...
That's right! Agurrie should not be one to go by rules here. And Agguire ain't got no right to expect them to be on duty 24/7
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I think Aguirre is most pissed off about them leaving the sheep alone, as I sayd in another thread... but it's ironic... he hires them to break the rules then don't hire them again for breaking his rule that was brakeing the rules...
That's right! Agurrie should not be one to go by rules here. And Agguire ain't got no right to expect them to be on duty 24/7
Ha, but he does expect them to be on duty all the time! Well, except when the herder is in camp and supposed to be eating! ;D
Anyhow, I don't think Aguirre is a particularly pleasant character, and he certainly doesn't seem to care for ranch hands, but I don't see him being more homophobic than you would expect for the time. If I wanted to show that part of his character more, I would've written in something nastier than "stemming the rose"--and if you look at it in context, that line is all about what they were getting paid for and not doing. Ol' Aguirre is probably thinking, "Sh*t, next year I'm gonna have to go watch them sheep myself!"
camom
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The relationship between employers and employees always ends up with disparity, especially when employers do not listen to their employees feedback.
On the first part of the movie, Aguirre said there were 25% loss and he thinks staying with the sheeps would solve the problem... Well part of the problem, while Jack said to Ennis, there was a lightning fire that killed the sheep, "Thought I would fixated from the smell, Aguirre thought I control the weather".
And again, the weather (hail storm) posed a huge problem. I remember Jack saying the paint on sheep had come off but it was clear that the number of sheeps after the "separation" had become smaller and their size smaller as well.
Then again bosses are usually very self-centered...
But hey, if Ennis and Jack can end up being gay... What happens when Aguirre puts a ranch girl... :(
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IMHO, I just wanted to take those binoculars and twist them around his neck till his head popped like a tick. >:(
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Cowboy Cody: If you think what Aguirre did is bad, wait till you see what they do in China for Walmart.
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IMHO, I just wanted to take those binoculars and twist them around his neck till his head popped like a tick. >:(
He is surely an a**h***, I agree with you on that. Brilliant bit of acting on Keach's part. He did a great job. The casting director obviously spent a lot of time getting just the right people for those little parts. Jack's parents are also just brilliant.
camom
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IMHO, I just wanted to take those binoculars and twist them around his neck till his head popped like a tick. >:(
LOLOLOL
Well, you better get your skinny ass over there and do it pronto! before I do!
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IMHO, I just wanted to take those binoculars and twist them around his neck till his head popped like a tick. >:(
LOLOLOL
Well, you better get your skinny ass over there and do it pronto! before I do!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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IMHO, I just wanted to take those binoculars and twist them around his neck till his head popped like a tick. >:(
LOLOLOL
Well, you better get your skinny ass over there and do it pronto! before I do!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
You pair a deuces! LMAO!! ;D ;D ;D
camom
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IMHO, I just wanted to take those binoculars and twist them around his neck till his head popped like a tick. >:(
He is surely an a**h***, I agree with you on that. Brilliant bit of acting on Keach's part. He did a great job. The casting director obviously spent a lot of time getting just the right people for those little parts. Jack's parents are also just brilliant.
camom
Keach?
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IMHO, I just wanted to take those binoculars and twist them around his neck till his head popped like a tick. >:(
He is surely an a**h***, I agree with you on that. Brilliant bit of acting on Keach's part. He did a great job. The casting director obviously spent a lot of time getting just the right people for those little parts. Jack's parents are also just brilliant.
camom
Keach?
The actor who played Aquirre. James Keach.
camom
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No :) Randy Quaid
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You're right, what the hell was I thinking? Keach, Quaid, sound the same, right? Jeez. How embarassing.
Can you tell I'm not getting enough sleep?
camom
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In the story, he actually watches them having sex. Waits till they button their pants up before going to camp. I'm sure he didn't want them back.
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You're right, what the hell was I thinking? Keach, Quaid, sound the same, right? Jeez. How embarassing.
Can you tell I'm not getting enough sleep?
camom
lol Camom - yes, why aren't you sleeping? lol - are you thinking about the wrestling between Jack and Ennis?!
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You're right, what the hell was I thinking? Keach, Quaid, sound the same, right? Jeez. How embarassing.
Can you tell I'm not getting enough sleep?
camom
lol Camom - yes, why aren't you sleeping? lol - are you thinking about the wrestling between Jack and Ennis?!
Don't know about camom but it sure as heck works for the Cowboy!
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lol Camom - yes, why aren't you sleeping? lol - are you thinking about the wrestling between Jack and Ennis?!
Don't know about camom but it sure as heck works for the Cowboy!
Speaking from experience........it works for straight chicks too!
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lol Camom - yes, why aren't you sleeping? lol - are you thinking about the wrestling between Jack and Ennis?!
Don't know about camom but it sure as heck works for the Cowboy!
Speaking from experience........it works for straight chicks too!
You know it! And I'm not getting enough sleep because "there's never enough time, never enough." ;D
camom
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lol Camom - yes, why aren't you sleeping? lol - are you thinking about the wrestling between Jack and Ennis?!
Don't know about camom but it sure as heck works for the Cowboy!
Speaking from experience........it works for straight chicks too!
You know it! And I'm not getting enough sleep because "there's never enough time, never enough." ;D
camom
<OT> but Camom, I'll bet you and your family one helluva good time!
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lol Camom - yes, why aren't you sleeping? lol - are you thinking about the wrestling between Jack and Ennis?!
Don't know about camom but it sure as heck works for the Cowboy!
Speaking from experience........it works for straight chicks too!
You know it! And I'm not getting enough sleep because "there's never enough time, never enough." ;D
camom
<OT> but Camom, I'll bet you and your family one helluva good time!
You bet! Yee haw!
camom
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In the story, he actually watches them having sex. Waits till they button their pants up before going to camp. I'm sure he didn't want them back.
He was jealous ;)
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In the story, he actually watches them having sex. Waits till they button their pants up before going to camp. I'm sure he didn't want them back.
He was jealous ;)
quite possible!
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In the story, he actually watches them having sex. Waits till they button their pants up before going to camp. I'm sure he didn't want them back.
He was jealous ;)
quite possible!
Must have been...who in their right mind would have sex with Aguirre? No nookie for that man, ever! :P
camom
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No one seems to have specifically addressed the "punch" that Ennis delivers to Jack after he accidentally gets a bloody lip. I know the story alludes to the fact in this way;
Jack went on, “Yeah, that little punch a yours surprised me. I never figured you to throw a dirty punch.”
Ennis replies:
“I come up under my brother K.E., three years older’n me, slugged me silly ever day. Dad got tired a me come bawlin in the house and when I was about six he set me down and says, Ennis, you got a problem and you got a fix it or it’s goin a be with you until you’re ninety and K.E.’s ninety-three. Well, I says, he’s bigger’n me. Dad says, You got a take him unawares, don’t say nothin to him, make him feel some pain, get out fast and keep doin it until he takes the message. Nothin like hurtin somebody to make him hear good. So I did. I got him in the outhouse, jumped him on the stairs, come over to his pillow in the night while he was sleepin and pasted him damn good. Took about two days. Never had trouble with K.E. since. The lesson was, Don’t say nothin and get it over with quick.”
My question is....did Ennis really punch Jack because he was "sore" about getting the bloody lip? Or was it his way of getting out his anger about having to leave Jack? But what really broke my heart in the scene is seeing Jack trying so hard to comfort Ennis , trying to put his arm around him, getting knocked to the ground with a punch, lying there and having Ennis just look at him....we obviously don't see what happens after that until they are coming down the hill but it seems incredibly cruel even for Ennis...I think THIS is one of the saddest parts of the films.....what does everyone else think?
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I think Ennis is angry at Aguirre but can't punch him. And the only way he can let his feeling out is through violence, and then Jack accidentally knees him , so he does what Ennis does...he hits.
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I think Ennis is angry at Aguirre but can't punch him. And the only way he can let his feeling out is through violence, and then Jack accidentally knees him , so he does what Ennis does...he hits.
I agree.. Ennis is very emotional state and they playful lasso'ing becomes hurtful. For Ennis to bring it up 4 years laters tells me that it probably had been on his mind all that time... in between the time he was not 'wrangling it about a hunnered' times :)
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I think it was probably that he was angry about having to leave Jack, and so he wanted to punch something, anything. Jack's face was the closest thing to his fist.
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Right. Ennis can't let his emotions out in anything except the physical (love making, fighting). But there is an edge to their wrestling scene with both men. I mean the lasso, and Ennis tripping over it has kind of a passive aggressive edge to it I think. No one likes falling. So, I think even Jack's "wrestling" was expressing his frustration. I don't think that he set out to hit Ennis in the nose, but right before it happened, he got pretty violent himself. Maybe it was self defense. But, I felt that he kind of didn't care what the outcome, he started fighting too.
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Like I sayd over ehre, I think the script says Jack accidentally knees Ennis, and we never see it we just hear it
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There were several scenes in the movie where wrestling occured all stemming from different causes. The first was in the tent when Ennis and Jack first made it. It came directly out of the fires of lust, Ennis took Jack's flower. The second, was when Jack gently but lovingly pinned Ennis to the floor of the tent, and kissed him tenderly. This was love in bloom. The third was the morning after when Ennis was full of joy and feeling frisky still. grabbed by jack, he teased him some, then tackled him for a kiss he definitely was after- and got! The fourth, when Jack lassoed him,telling him it was time to go. It was a violent wrestling match as both of them were getting cheated not only out of a months pay, but another month of , as they thought free wheelin' lovin. It came out of growing feeling of impending separation that neither one really wanted to happen. The fifth was Ennis wrestling with himself just after parting at the trailer, it arose out of the realization he just screwed, and let the love of his life drive off without him, possibly never seeing him again. The sixth came at the bottom of the steps, when Ennis and Jack nearly tore each others shirts off, coming right out of the realization that there love had not died. And the seventh, when Alma revealed she knew and called Jack "Jack Nasty". That came from Ennis's instincts for self preservation of his relationship with Jack.
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I'll add one: The final parting scene - when Ennis is brought to his knees and Jack tries to comfort him. There is a definite tussel there.
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This is OT, but still funny.
Aguirre accuses Jack and Ennis of "Stemming the Rose."
In the night scene later on, Ennis is drinking whisky, holding it suggestively in his crotch.
The whiskey is called "Old Rose."
Made me giggle a little.
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Ennis feels desperately "out of control" in his life. Thus, his need to dominate and control others.
It appears any intimacy invokes rage.
I don't think wrestling meant ennis wanted to control....when Aquirre was watching playing and wrestling after sex, it was beautiful and fun and energetic....when Jack roped him when they were leaving it went from fun (with three brothers this always happened in my family) to serious to kill each other...remember Ennis hit Jack because Jack's knee accidentily hit Ennis' nose. Many wrestling scenarios between two guys change from fun to serious. I also think that the general depression of leaving Brokeback and each other made Ennis do the thing a lot of people do. When you are bothered about leaving ya pick a fight and that helps cover up the pain ya feel with anger.
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Also during the wrestling scene, the scenery around Aguirre is the absolute ugliest of the film..dead tree, etc. I guess Ang really wants us to know Aguirre is a negative force.
To be honest, I'm not sure that Aguirre is really that negative of a character. He never gives any sign that he thinks poorly of them because of what he saw, at least not that I can remember. He even waits until they're done before he rides down (that's in the short story). He must have had a gun at the time, yet he didn't shoot at them, didn't yell at them, didn't call them derogatory names. The worst he ever said was, "You ranch stiffs ain't never no good." When he tells Jack there's no work for him next summer, he makes it clear why, but again, nothing really derogatory, just plain talk--and really, he's their employer. They were hired to do a job and they didn't do a very good job because they were busy, ah, doing other things. Aguirre's mad about that, sure, but where is he showing homophobia? For all we know, this is happening every dang summer, and he's getting tired of it! ;D
I mean, seriously, someone tell me where Aguirre shows that he's angry over anything over than their neglect of the sheep.
camom
Well he did order Jack out of his trailer.....I have no work for YOU...implying to me not that Jack was lazy but he was gay and he didn't want him around.
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The way Aguirre says: no work for you, stem the rose, get out of my trailer. If he had told Jack to get out for messing up with the sheep, Aguirre would never have hired him for a second summer in the first place, due to the 25% loss from the previous year that Jack worked on BBM. Also, why did Jack feel he had to lie (or not tell the whole truth) to Ennis in the hotel reunion if there was not something other than Aguirre just being upset about their work?
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Gonna keep this "G" rated, but I think our boys, had they lived in 2006 in a big city, would prolly have ended up as part of the Levis and Leather crowd.....and no, I will NOT explain that!
JB :P
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Gonna keep this "G" rated, but I think our boys, had they lived in 2006 in a big city, would prolly have ended up as part of the Levis and Leather crowd.....and no, I will NOT explain that!
JB :P
You don't have to lol
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When you are bothered about leaving ya pick a fight and that helps cover up the pain ya feel with anger.
Good point -- When Ennis feels frustrated, threatened, or shamed, he gets angry/violent. In this particular scene it escalated unintentionally after Jack playfully lassoed Ennis, but there were many other examples -- e.g. punching the wall in the alley; glaring at Alma when she says "what about my job?"; twisting her arm after the 'Jack Nasty' comment, then picking the fight outside the bar afterward; pushing (almost punching) Jack as he says "all them THINGS I don't know", yelling "get the f--k off me"...etc.
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I think Ennis is standing up for himself the only way he has learned how. He is putting up a shield.
But when twisting her arm after the 'Jack Nasty' comment
he does this he is "protecting" not himself, but Jack. No way does he want anyone talking badly about the man he loves. same on the 4th of July, he is protecting his daughters form the nasty talk.
The punch on the mountain is about protecting himself.
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Excellent points esme.
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I think Ennis is standing up for himself the only way he has learned how. He is putting up a shield.
Yes! :)
But when twisting her arm after the 'Jack Nasty' comment
he does this he is "protecting" not himself, but Jack. No way does he want anyone talking badly about the man he loves.
Good observation! Of course, Ennis is hurt by the Jack Nasty comment. But this scene is about a lot more than Alma calling Jack names. It's one of the most crucial, devastating scenes in the story. Alma finally plays her trump card and reveals to Ennis that she knows his big secret. Worse, she didn't just figure it out the other day, but she's known for years! Ennis totally freaks out, he is at once humiliated and horrified -- Has Alma told anyone else what she knows? If people find out, Ennis (not Jack who's far away) is in mortal danger. That's why Ennis warns Alma "You don't know nothing about it" and threatens to make her and Monroe eat the floor, etc. etc.
But it's fair to say that Ennis's outburst is at least, by extension, an attempt to protect Jack.
Just another point then I'll go to my corner and be quiet -- it's in the next fishing trip following this scene that Ennis is all paranoid and asks Jack if he ever suspects that people know about him. And shortly after that he takes up with Cassie to be his cover. From one lie to another...poor old Ennis. :'( :'( :'(
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I think Ennis is standing up for himself the only way he has learned how. He is putting up a shield.
But when twisting her arm after the 'Jack Nasty' comment
he does this he is "protecting" not himself, but Jack. No way does he want anyone talking badly about the man he loves. same on the 4th of July, he is protecting his daughters form the nasty talk.
The punch on the mountain is about protecting himself.
yep!
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Ennis totally freaks out, he is at once humiliated and horrified -- Has Alma told anyone else what she knows?
I wonder tho...what is worse for him, everyone else knowing or his girls knowing?
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scenes that keep coming back to me as interesting to compare and contrast are the wrestling scenes. I would love to hear if others have compared them:
**Ennis and Jack wrestling before they go down the mountain: Culminating in Ennis punching Jack
**Ennis and Alma wrestling in the snow: Ennis' concern over hurting her because he was too rough
Ideas? Thoughts?
interesting, strange i found this thread after so long! i do find a connection ... may be Ennis had been repentant for punching jack in their last fight and wanted to "make up" with anybody else he loved , like Alma. remember in the reunion motel scene he says he thought Jack was "sore from the punch" ... may be he had this thought in his mind ever since he punched Jack .. I noe do find a clear connection oh! amazing symbolism