Brokeback Mountain Forum @ ennisjack.com
The Movie & Story => Characters, Quotes & Scenes => Topic started by: Uptown_Gal on Feb 02, 2006, 11:24 PM
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Ennis asks his 19-year-old daughter, Alma Jr., the above question after she announces that she is engaged to be married to some "roughneck" named Kurt. Prior to that, I bet that Ennis had never uttered that four-letter word in his entire adult life, not to Alma, not to his daughters, and certainly never to Jack. It took approx. 40 years for the word "love" to debut and flow effortlessly out of his mouth. That's Jack's legacy. I like how the language of the movie is so often understated. Less is more.
P.S. I have no idea of how I got assigned the position of Lureen. How do you change that?
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Just keep posting, your position is based on the number of posts you have made, Ennis being of course the ultimate reward. ;D
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Ennis asks his 19-year-old daughter, Alma Jr., the above question after she announces that she is engaged to be married to some "roughneck" named Kurt. Prior to that, I bet that Ennis had never uttered that four-letter word in his entire adult life, not to Alma, not to his daughters, and certainly never to Jack. It took approx. 40 years for the word "love" to debut and flow effortlessly out of his mouth. That's Jack's legacy. I like how the language of the movie is so often understated. Less is more.
Hello Uptown_Gal, welcome. Great observation and topic. Yes it took so long for Ennis and the entire movie at the end to use the word "love." It was just heartbreaking because Ennis realize what love was and hope his daughter will be loved.
P.S. I have no idea of how I got assigned the position of Lureen. How do you change that?
HERE (http://www.ennisjack.com/index.php?topic=146.0) is the topic for your question. The position is assigned based on the number of post.
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As has been pointed out by others, this scene is the only two times that "love" is said at all. I thought it was somewhat symbolic of the fact that love was understood, but never spoken by Ennis and Jack. "Real men" never say the "L" word, and certainly not when it's toward another man.
It also struck me as interesting that Ennis asks his daughter if Kurt loves her. Again, perhaps a reflection of his own relationships in which he was married to Alma, but was in love with Jack.
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Ennis asks his 19-year-old daughter, Alma Jr., the above question after she announces that she is engaged to be married to some "roughneck" named Kurt. Prior to that, I bet that Ennis had never uttered that four-letter word in his entire adult life, not to Alma, not to his daughters, and certainly never to Jack. It took approx. 40 years for the word "love" to debut and flow effortlessly out of his mouth. That's Jack's legacy. I like how the language of the movie is so often understated. Less is more.
P.S. I have no idea of how I got assigned the position of Lureen. How do you change that?
You nailed it...that is most definitely Jacks legacy. Ennis finally, on some level, understands love and wants to make sure his daughter has it. He wouldn't have found that understanding except for Jack.
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Although it's not used in the film... in the story, when Ennis is introducing Jack to Alma (right after the reunion kiss), Annie P. says: “You got a kid?” said Jack. His shaking hand grazed Ennis’s hand, electrical current snapped between them. “Two little girls,” Ennis said. “Alma, Jr., and Francine. Love them to pieces.” Alma’s mouth twitched. Allan
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It's interesting that Ennis asks if his daughter is loved. Isn't it usually the other way around. When people announce their engagement don't the parents ask their children "Do you love him" instead of "Does he love you"??? It makes me wonder if at that time in his life it is more important to Ennis to be loved rather than love. Another thing I find interesting is that fathers usually worry that the fiancee can provide for their daughters. I guess after seeing the fancy car Ennis may feel some guilt for not being the provider the fiancee is going to be.
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Isn't it usually the other way around. When people announce their engagement don't the parents ask their children "Do you love him" instead of "Does he love you"???
ooooh... Good point... he does ask that.. Ennis is clearly thinking of Jack when he looks off to his right for a little bit, before he says he will go to the wedding.
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It's interesting that Ennis asks if his daughter is loved. Isn't it usually the other way around. When people announce their engagement don't the parents ask their children "Do you love him" instead of "Does he love you"???
Well my family would ask me the exact same question, coz they would just assume that if I had chosen to marry the bloke, I was in love...but they'd want to know if the fella loves me back!
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Although it's not used in the film... in the story, when Ennis is introducing Jack to Alma (right after the reunion kiss), Annie P. says: “You got a kid?” said Jack. His shaking hand grazed Ennis’s hand, electrical current snapped between them. “Two little girls,” Ennis said. “Alma, Jr., and Francine. Love them to pieces.” Alma’s mouth twitched. Allan
Does Alma react that way because Ennis can say he loves his daughters, but he never says it to her??
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Does Alma react that way because Ennis can say he loves his daughters, but he never says it to her??
I think that's a real possibility... but don't forget that she has just seen her husband PASSIONATELY kissing a man. If I were she, I'd be twitching all over. Allan
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Does Alma react that way because Ennis can say he loves his daughters, but he never says it to her??
She probably reacts because of the kiss she's just seen her husband exchange with a total stranger (and a man!)
But Annie Proulx also writes that he uses Little Darlin' for his horse, Jack and his daughters...
I don't know if by "he never says it to her?" you were referring to Ennis telling Alma or Ennis telling his daughters...but in the 1st case the fact that he does not call his wife "Little darlin'" would piss me off! and in the second, this little pet name coming out of Ennis' mouth means as much as "I love you".
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It's interesting that Ennis asks if his daughter is loved. Isn't it usually the other way around. When people announce their engagement don't the parents ask their children "Do you love him" instead of "Does he love you"??? It makes me wonder if at that time in his life it is more important to Ennis to be loved rather than love. Another thing I find interesting is that fathers usually worry that the fiancee can provide for their daughters. I guess after seeing the fancy car Ennis may feel some guilt for not being the provider the fiancee is going to be.
Scruffy, I didn't realize until just now reading your response that you nailed a key idea. That Ennis couldn't be the provider. He couldn't provide for his two daughters the way he wanted (remarking about the car), he couldn't provide for Jack (as Jack had the money). My god, not only did society keep him back, but in his own mind his financial position also held him back from running off with Jack. Plus the damn alimony and stuff to Alma (damn her).
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Isn't it usually the other way around. When people announce their engagement don't the parents ask their children "Do you love him" instead of "Does he love you"???
ooooh... Good point... he does ask that.. Ennis is clearly thinking of Jack when he looks off to his right for a little bit, before he says he will go to the wedding.
I agree. When Ennis asked her daughter, "This Kurt fella. . . .does he love you?" He doesn't want to hear a simple "yes" or "no" answer. He wants her to look into his heart and tell him what she sees. If the love Kurt has for her doesn't measure the love he (Ennis) for Jack, then it's NOT love. Then after hearing her answer, Ennis stared outside of the window and in his mind he saw Jack and said to him "Nobody can ever come close to the love I have for you". Immortal, unparalleled LOVE!
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This is poignant, and ultimately so more 'upbeat' than the book. At least there's hope here for Alma Jr.'s continued love and support of Ennis. Here's a screencap of Ennis looking away after she responds, "yeah, Daddy, he loves me".
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg116.imageshack.us%2Fimg116%2F5856%2Fyeahdaddyhelovesme2su.jpg&hash=75872d402f4a601ea9c15aa847e86abbd6a7b10b)
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My god, not only did society keep him back, but in his own mind his financial position also held him back from running off with Jack. Plus the damn alimony and stuff to Alma (damn her).
No, no alimony Cowboy. Just child support. And as for damn Alma, I think she was also a societal victim also. Can't blame her for anything.
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Just keep posting, your position is based on the number of posts you have made, Ennis being of course the ultimate reward. ;D
Ennis - The ultimate reward - I like it. :)
Some of the sweetest words in the English language (or any other language for that matter) ... I love you ^_^
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"This Kurt fella...does he love you?"
"Yes, Daddy. He loves me."
Then there is nothing else in this world that matters, as I found out too late.[/color]
"Tell you what, we could of had a good life together, a f**kin' real good life, had us a place of our own." Echos in his mind.
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"This Kurt fella...does he love you?"
"Yes, Daddy. He loves me."
Then there is nothing else in this world that matters, as I found out too late.[/color]
"Tell you what, we could of had a good life together, a f**kin' real good life, had us a place of our own." Echos in his mind.
That is very touching Patriot1.
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I think Ennis wanted his daughter to be happy, to have love and to feel that she was loved in return..to have the happiness he didn't have..and to enjoy life and not turn your back on when happiness and love are offered..He wants to make sure that her daughter really loves the man and that the man really loves him..and maybe Ennis is hoping that Kurt will be able to provide for his daughter..We all know that Ennis loved his children..its a very touching scene in the movie..I really was glad when he finally agreed to go to her wedding and be a part of her joy instead of being alone and unhappy and sad...he decided to go to the wedding and be a part of the happiness surounding his daughter..
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My god, not only did society keep him back, but in his own mind his financial position also held him back from running off with Jack. Plus the damn alimony and stuff to Alma (damn her).
No, no alimony Cowboy. Just child support. And as for damn Alma, I think she was also a societal victim also. Can't blame her for anything.
That's right...you shut up about Alma...this ain't her fault. :-[
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Ennis stared outside of the window and in his mind he saw Jack and said to him "Nobody can ever come close to the love I have for you". Immortal, unparalleled LOVE!
you had made me feel truly sad for that comment poor Ennis he lost his love and now he just live in the memories and seeing that his daughter is in love brings him all the memory
Damn society What kind of monster you are that thinks that what you can't understand is wrong you are blindfolded! but it would be the day when things like this would never happen again!!!!
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This is the scene that got me sobbing while watching DVD because I just thought of what went through Ennis's mind at the moment
as Patriot1 pointed out. :'( :'(
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While watching the movie again last night, I became really aware of Ennis's emotions at just after Alma Jr answers him - I'd somehow managed to totally miss it first time round.
When he looks away out the window, it's like he's having a flashback all of his own (a bit like Jack's "dozy embrace" flashback), thinking about how much he loved Jack and how what they shared was the most important thing in his life - Kurt has obviously told Jr that he loves her, and it really hits home to Ennis that he never told Jack. When he looks back, his eyes are filled with tears and he struggles to compose himself before he speaks again.
Heartbreaking.
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I liked that movie scene, too. I have observed people in real life who looked to the side to think before they said something very important to me. I had tears come to my eyes when I heard him ask Alma Jr. that question when I saw the movie in a theater on Jan. 6.
The AP story we only know that at least one of Ennis's daughters got married. I have met men like Ennis who could not tell the person with whom they were in love, "I love you;" but, they could ask another person if someone loved that person.
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I've always thought that when Ennis asked this question he was thinking about Jack and the love they shared. I have no doubt that he had realized how much he loved Jack and how much Jack loved him, and he finally realized that nothing is more important than that.
But it could also be, like kindred posted before me, that he was thinking about his own marriage. He married a woman he didn't love, not really, and that's why his marriage failed. that's why he couldn't marry any other woman, and I suspect he had serious doubts about the whole marriage institution - "once burned"... Ennis doesn't want his daughter to be in this kind of relationship. He doesn't want her to have the kind of marriage he and Alma had. He wants her to marry someone who REALLY loves her, and have the kind of happiness that he never had.
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And he could only use the word "love" after he'd realised that was what he felt for Jack. I think he also knew that he had never loved Alma in the same way, and was incapable of loving Cassie - because in the end what he felt for Jack was a one-shot thing, though not in the way he'd meant; for him it was a total commitment, mind, body and soul, however much he'd fought against acknowledging it. And if Alm Jr had found that, then he would want her to realise how important it was.
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While watching the movie again last night, I became really aware of Ennis's emotions at just after Alma Jr answers him - I'd somehow managed to totally miss it first time round.
When he looks away out the window, it's like he's having a flashback all of his own (a bit like Jack's "dozy embrace" flashback), thinking about how much he loved Jack and how what they shared was the most important thing in his life - Kurt has obviously told Jr that he loves her, and it really hits home to Ennis that he never told Jack. When he looks back, his eyes are filled with tears and he struggles to compose himself before he speaks again.
Heartbreaking.
Indeed.
And Alma Jr. smiles and says "Yes, Daddy, he loves me." and she gives Ennis a long and intense look
Maybe she's not thinking about Kurt at that moment. Maybe she is watching Ennis' reaction and knows, or at least sort of understands, what it's about.