What about when Jack driven all those miles for nothing, after Ennis wrote him about the divorce. Ennis stumbling around trying to explain to Jack in strained words how he misunderstood, how paranoid Ennis looked, clumsily explaining to Jack his girls were there, and to keep to the schedule, seeing him the following month, and apologizing Jack for the misunderstanding. How painful for Jack, and how sobering that moment was and what he did to make that pain go away.
...and now for something almost completely different:
Part 1. Ennis and Jack, the Yin and the Yang, Caution and Abandon.
Jack is always “trying” so hard because he doesn't have the patience or maturity to take responsibility for reaching solutions. As Mr. Gyllenhall has said, just the “trying” to get it right is all he can manage. (This may be one of the soul-scars left by Papa Twist, but Ennis is so in love with this “lovable loser” trait he sees it as "endearing," and it actually is a part of Jack's charm for him. Jack may have loved “a little dog,” but Ennis loves Jack, likewise.) Just as he shoots at the coyote without breathing or aiming properly, Jack habitually acts before really being ready to do the task: shooting the coyote, and missing for lack of preparing for the shot; “I can use a can opener,” and he spills the beans (!); bitchin’ at Ennis for being late with the supplies before he discovers that Ennis opened a head wound in a fall from the horse; blows up at LD on Thanksgiving – not saying LD didn’t deserve it all right, but still, Jack let fly with a few years of frustration all at that one moment, just like he fires his entire ar**nal at Ennis in the final fight. Jack's personal history is one of precipitous actions, taken without preparation, before all the facts are considered.
Part 2: The portrayal of the change in Jack’s thinking.
For the longest time I couldn't understand the camera moves during Ennis's initial pleadings to Jack to understand (those aren't excuses - they're real, they're reasons): at first Ennis is behind Jack's head, the he appears to the left of Jack (over Jack's right shoulder), in sharp focus. By the time he gets to Don Wroe’s cabin,” He's headed back behind Jack's head, then out the other side, seen over Jack's left shoulder. Then he goes back, blocked out by jack's head, and something happens: The focus shifts from Ennis to Jack, who’s shaking before he speaks, saying, “Never enough time, never enough.”
Part 3: The Sobering Moment.
I think we are witnessing Jack decide to tell Ennis everything that's been on his mind for 20 yrs. In warm-up to the grand bitch-out, Jack offers no help, no alternative and even seems to encourage the pent-up venom generated by 16 years of hard-packed frustration to explode all over Ennis. He unreasonably places the entire burden of his problem on Ennis, as if his happiness were Ennis's responsibility. As easily as Ennis could give up his fear of getting them killed, Jack could come up with a compromise - we are not shown that he even tried. When he finally notices the anguish he’s caused Ennis, and finally can spare a thought for the man he loves, he puts the brakes on himself, stopping his horrendous tirade. He knows how thoroughly hateful that he’s being because his intention is for these words to hurt, not to introduce or enhance a satisfactory resolution to his complaints. Only when Ennis collapses does he recognize his incredibly striking progress towards the total demolition of the one he loves, and the drowsy embrace pops full-blown into his mind. This is Jack, finally realizing that Ennis has loved him all along.
Part 4: Good Reasons.
And this is what all the yelling and whining and cheating is actually all about. The real result of the aching loneliness "inspired" by Papa Twist is Jack's biggest problem: "I need to be loved, all day long, every day, I need to know. Reassure me." In the midst of the fight, he remembers the long warm drowsy embrace, finally realizing that he’s had all along that “thing” he wanted most – by any other name, it is still love from Ennis.
Just as everyone in the world knows Ennis is clueless about naming the “feeling,” the “thing” which makes the fishin’ trips irresistible to him, most don’t see that Jack, although an aggressive charmer, is equally clueless, and so it is, in this moment of utmost stress, he finally comes to the accurate conclusion that almost everything Ennis has done since they met has been to be with him, to comfort and protect him from the outrages of a hostile world. It takes remembering the drowsy embrace of 20 yrs prior during a highly emotional crisis for him to actually remember the DE not only for his original negative assumptions about it (what it is not – not face to face, etc.) but for what it accurately is: it is Ennis, nonverbally (as usual) speaking (and maybe even speaking beyond his capacity to comprehend thoroughly his own message - people do that, and Ennis is surely a person most likely to do that), saying I love you.
Part 5: A realistic alternative conclusion.
As Ennis collapses, Jack ultimately and decisively remembers the DE as it really was: it was everything he wanted and his own anxiety prevented him from seeing. It was simply Ennis, unconcerned with anything but Jack, there just to hold him. Jack's "Eureka!" moment, he sees the break in the prince’s armor where the love has been showing all along! He had feelings for me way back then! He has feelings for me now! He loves me! The bastard lied, he isn’t straight. It took me f*ckin’ long enough to get it. Ah, sweet Jesus, I love him, what have I done to him, to us? (Maybe this is something of what is behind the look on Jack's face as Ennis’s truck is going away.)
But whether it were to come from Jack's redundant faith or his death, Ennis was destined to learn the language of love.
Nice in-depth descriptions, zeph :)
I agree with most of it. More specificly, I tend to agree up until certain points in nearly each paragraph. Where the weight becomes expressed exclusively on Jack, I tend to fall back to neutral. I can see how Jack was one to jump the gun, careless as he was. But I think this characteristic was also the necessary glue, time and time again - something almost identical to his bitching and lashing out. Given circumstance, they both had to lash out. And like how they reacted to love, this act, too, was quite a contrast. I think with having been starcrossed, yin/yang of Ennis and Jack was prominent as the foundation that would always support them when clearly nothing else around them would. They could only eventually agree with each other through the quiet means of rambunctious, secluded love.
When Jack comes off as unprepared, licentious or selfish, I think he's the most misunderstood cowboy, much before a gay one. I think like Ennis he's affected by nonverbal love. That is to say he can feel but not comprehend it. And I agree Jack's childhood must have been sacrificed by his dad's severely traditional ways, leaving his palms wide open. But I still tend to believe Jack's inner responsibility to care for the man he loves is his greatest (naive, yes) motivation, as he continuously interrupts Ennis' path towards becoming much too like father Twist who may not have been as silent as Ennis but in the name of love could only express something much more painful. Ennis' progressive resemblance to father Twist seemed climax before the peak of last confrontation.
To have made it 20 years, unable to verbalize love but able to dish out "... will get you killed if I come to know them" may be an example of how love would have always been conquered by fear had Jack not milked it for 20 years. He clearly understood Ennis needed him, and couldn't bare seeing him swallowed by the lost cause of his past; I'm not dismissng the idea that Jack is still looking to fill the void from his own, but I think he recognizes his father in his lover and something before doom is going to have to give.
And this is what he chooses to do - give love, present love (and yes, expect it as well). Both men need this comfort. Jack must have recognized that the only way to progress from the past is to change. Love already had their feet in the door. Jack wasn't about to shut the door and hide in his room. And Ennis didn't have one to hide into. So he did it with every step. Jack was Ennis' glimpse into the present which, alone, was out of Ennis' league.
When Jack watches the truck roll away into dust, I don't see Jack feeling as though he's pushed Ennis away. I think what hits jack is the sound of Ennis' own wheels and, as the dust begins to thin, the clarity of doom settling down not just with the weight of 20 hopeful years but with the past as a whole and, soon enough, the rest of his life.
But whether it were to come from Jack's redundant faith or his death, Ennis was destined to learn the language of love. He may have found it on some vulnerable SNIT wavelength. He may have seen it, looking out of his trailer's window, adjacent Alma Jr... He may finally have.
But what he didn't do this time was append the voice of his heart to the same dead end accord he'd thus far obeyed. Nope. This time he reckons those bigots can find themselves a newpuppetcowboy.
Yes, perhaps a little after the fact, Ennis, but nonetheless ... good for you.
They were two sheep
Love was their sheperd
Fear was their predator
That is so beautifully said. ^f^ :\'( IMO fear ruled them both- Jack had the fear of pushing Ennis away and ultimately losing him and Ennis's fear was that they'd get killed. I think in his own way Ennis was protecting Jack by refusing to be with him. He saw first hand what happens to "boys like them" and I think he loved Jack so much that he'd rather live a half of a life meeting a few times a year, thus keeping Jack "safe". But on the flip side of that is that the rejection(s) were doing damage too. Jack was the dreamer and I'm sure he knew the risks of ranching up but I think he'd rather have had five minutes of living the dream than to spend his life chasing something that was never going to be. Ennis ultimately has that sobering moment in Jack's closet when he finds the shirts and realizes there is a fate worse than death. I think in that moment he'd have faced down an army of tire irons to have Jack back. He spent his life trying to not end up like Earl and he ended up being Rich.
That is so beautifully said. ^f^ :\'( IMO fear ruled them both- Jack had the fear of pushing Ennis away and ultimately losing him and Ennis's fear was that they'd get killed. I think in his own way Ennis was protecting Jack by refusing to be with him. He saw first hand what happens to "boys like them" and I think he loved Jack so much that he'd rather live a half of a life meeting a few times a year, thus keeping Jack "safe". But on the flip side of that is that the rejection(s) were doing damage too. Jack was the dreamer and I'm sure he knew the risks of ranching up but I think he'd rather have had five minutes of living the dream than to spend his life chasing something that was never going to be. Ennis ultimately has that sobering moment in Jack's closet when he finds the shirts and realizes there is a fate worse than death. I think in that moment he'd have faced down an army of tire irons to have Jack back. He spent his life trying to not end up like Earl and he ended up being Rich.
......
Our perceptions are not very far apart at all orangetruck, thanks for your erudite comments; thanks for some great insight aintfoolin; and thanks for the observations and the compliment jackster.
Ennis ultimately has that sobering moment in Jack's closet when he finds the shirts and realizes there is a fate worse than death. I think in that moment he'd have faced down an army of tire irons to have Jack back. He spent his life trying to not end up like Earl and he ended up being Rich.
Beautiful post LJN! I think the bolded part is what kept me so low so long. That and your following two sentences are the wake up call to all of us here - it's what keeps us posting and what drives us to eliminate the BS, and make changes for the better in our own lives. What a masterful, affecting work of art this movie is.
"Ennis was back on his feet somehow, as a coat hanger is straightened to open a locked car, and then bent again to its original shape, they torqued things almost to where they had been, for what they'd said was no news. Nothing ended, nothing begun, nothing resolved." They would be back together, at least as far as she was concerned. (I accept her insight.)
Jack's death (whether murder or accident is unessential knowledge) comes right as Ennis discovers that his feelings for Jack are in fact love. He comes to this Aha! moment when he sees the sorrowful Cassie, and hears her describe her sad story as due to love! It all gels in this moment for Ennis who has yet to be told that his opportunity to live a love-filled life, the chance he had in his hands for 20 years, is gone forever.
Nice. I'm still intrigued that Jack had a better grip on Ennis' susceptibility to love than Ennis himself had, until Cassie delivered the message to him. Smeared it on his toast even, made him choke it down.
These guys needed the same thing, had appropriate (and thick) personalities, but my gawd their timing was f***ed.
:c)
But of the ending to the big fight, Ms. Proulx says in the story, "Ennis was back on his feet somehow, as a coat hanger is straightened to open a locked car, and then bent again to its original shape, they torqued things almost to where they had been, for what they'd said was no news. Nothing ended, nothing begun, nothing resolved." They would be back together, at least as far as she was concerned. (I accept her insight.)
Jack's death (whether murder or accident is unessential knowledge) comes right as Ennis discovers that his feelings for Jack are in fact love. He comes to this Aha! moment when he sees the sorrowful Cassie, and hears her describe her sad story as due to love! It all gels in this moment for Ennis who has yet to be told that his opportunity to live a love-filled life, the chance he had in his hands for 20 years, is gone forever.
Think about Ennis - who in his life ever talked with him about what love meant? Nobody! But worse than that, in his entire shy life, who did he have to model any kind of partnership on? Not Mom and Dad, they died too young, just as he might be getting interested in the ways people interact with one another, relationshipwise. His sister marries and doesn't come back, and his brother marries and throws him out. Talk about a lifetime of rejection as well as there being a lack of couples around him, interacting, to educate him.
And about the timing? The worst. Ever. :\'(
Do we know that Ennis does say "I love you" to Jack in Jack's bedroom, while holding the shirts?
Do we know that Ennis does say "I love you" to Jack in Jack's bedroom, while holding the shirts?
What we do know is this - he felt it.
Proulx's beautiful rendition:
He pressed his face into the fabric and breathed in slowly through his mouth and nose, hoping for the faintest smoke and mountain sage and salty sweet stink of Jack, but there was no real scent, only the memory of it, the imagined power of Brokeback Mountain of which nothing was left but what he held in his hands.
Ledger's flawless portrayal of this moment, leaves no doubt that the love was there in his hands and in his thoughts.
Just as Jack's love, also unspoken, is doubtless in his eyes as Ennis rides away from the Dozy Embrace.
Beautiful words translated masterfully into beautiful action without words. Great Art in our own time IMO.
Oh, absolutely! Ennis radiates so much love that it can be felt. But I have talked with people who insist that he doesn't say anything there! Go figure.
that walk into the dark is like a descent into hell - it must have shown Jack what his life was - a loveless marriage, rejection by the man he had loved for years, paid-for sex in a dark alley. Hardly surprising that /randall's offer was a wake-up call to show him that there was another way.
Great and insightful posts zephK, orangetruck, aintfoolin.
For Jack, ...
Large was his bounty, and his soul sincere,
Heaven did a recompense as largely send:
He gave to Misery all he had, a tear,
He gained from Heaven ('twas all he wish'd) a friend.
What we do know is this - he felt it.
Proulx's beautiful rendition:
He pressed his face into the fabric and breathed in slowly through his mouth and nose, hoping for the faintest smoke and mountain sage and salty sweet stink of Jack, but there was no real scent, only the memory of it, the imagined power of Brokeback Mountain of which nothing was left but what he held in his hands.
Ledger's flawless portrayal of this moment, leaves no doubt that the love was there in his hands and in his thoughts.
Just as Jack's love, also unspoken, is doubtless in his eyes as Ennis rides away from the Dozy Embrace.
Beautiful words translated masterfully into beautiful action without words. Great Art in our own time IMO.
This is so beautifully stated. I fully agree that Ennis FELT it, but I just don't think he knew it for what it was -- love. I think, to Ennis, it was a feeling of Jack being his other half -- someone he didn't want to live without -- someone he thought about all the time, and wanted to be with, but just couldn't work it out in him mind how to do that. Great discussion, All.
I fully agree that Ennis FELT it, but I just don't think he knew it for what it was -- love.
For myself, I think he did know, but not until this "sobering moment". To me, I think he finally realizes it is love, here in the closet, and it effects him deeply. Deeply enough to prompt him to actually take the shirt(s), not an insignificant act for Ennis, for he knows that when he walks downstairs with that shirt in his hands he's admitting his love (his homosexual love) to Jack's mother and father (might as well be the world to Ennis). And by impication Jack's love for him also, though this may be only clear to Jack's mother who must have known that it's actually a pair of shirts.
For myself, I think he did know, but not until this "sobering moment". To me, I think he finally realizes it is love, here in the closet, and it effects him deeply. Deeply enough to prompt him to actually take the shirt(s), not an insignificant act for Ennis, for he knows that when he walks downstairs with that shirt in his hands he's admitting his love (his homosexual love) to Jack's mother and father (might as well be the world to Ennis). And by impication Jack's love for him also, though this may be only clear to Jack's mother who must have known that it's actually a pair of shirts.
For myself, I think he did know, but not until this "sobering moment". To me, I think he finally realizes it is love, here in the closet, and it effects him deeply. Deeply enough to prompt him to actually take the shirt(s), not an insignificant act for Ennis, for he knows that when he walks downstairs with that shirt in his hands he's admitting his love (his homosexual love) to Jack's mother and father (might as well be the world to Ennis). And by impication Jack's love for him also, though this may be only clear to Jack's mother who must have known that it's actually a pair of shirts.
Mrs. Twist wanted Ennis to come back. She needed someone who loved Jack as much as she did in her life. There was no grieving from the old man, just anger and resentment. She knew Ennis loved Jack, and Jack loved him. This is who her son chose to love and she respected that, after all she kept his room the way it was since he was little boy, and he appreciated that, she accepted Ennis and she knew he'd appreciate that too.
Your so right MG. She and Jack probably had some very intimate discussion about Jack's love for Ennis huh? But I don;t think she expected to ever meet him.
Probably felt she had almost gained a son through her son's death. And Ennis finally gets a surrogate mother too. I think Ennis could have handled Mr. Twist . Two stubborn mules butting heads I can see it now.
Somehow, the thought of him not coming back seems plausible, although I would like to think that he did every now and then.
There's a tie-in here with the thread about what Ennis would do with Jack's ashes. I think Ma Twist desperately wanted and needed Ennis to come back and "liberate" her son's ashes from the family plot. That look in her eyes, when she had her "sobering moment" that the old man wasn't going to let Jack go, the pain and desperation she felt right then, that Ennis was her only hope of seeing that Jack's final wishes be carried out. Clutching her throat like she was being choked by the bitterness spewing from from her so called husband. Great work Roberta!!
Somehow, the thought of him not coming back seems plausible, although I would like to think that he did every now and then. This was certainly my initial feeling about it (i.e., his never coming back), which hightened the sense of tragedy.
Two "sobering moments" here IMO, within minutes of each other - Ennis finds "the shirts", finally realizes the love and longing that Jack had for him since '63 and that he has had inside himself for Jack. Then, just moments later downstairs, old man Twist puffs up about "we got a family plot, and he's goin' in it", Mrs. T suddenly realizes Jack's not going back to Brokeback where he wanted. The exchange of looks here between Ennis and Mrs. T, their eyes and faces, whew! I'm gonna' have to go watch this again (and again).
:\'(
These two (Ennis and Mrs. Twist) will have a lot to talk about on their next meeting. The only two people we know of that truly love Jack. A sobering moment for both of them.
Justin, you dirty boy! ;D
You're going to have three people spanking you. ~) *o)
Ennis could really learn a lot about Jack from Mrs. Twist. And Mrs. Twist can learn about their hard life up on Brokeback. Like mother and son. One lost his mom and one lost her son.
There's a tie-in here with the thread about what Ennis would do with Jack's ashes. I think Ma Twist desperately wanted and needed Ennis to come back and "liberate" her son's ashes from the family plot. That look in her eyes, when she had her "sobering moment" that the old man wasn't going to let Jack go, the pain and desperation she felt right then, that Ennis was her only hope of seeing that Jack's final wishes be carried out. Clutching her throat like she was being choked by the bitterness spewing from from her so called husband. Great work Roberta!!
I think since Jack was burried there, Ennis would come back and pay respect for his other half. And yes, Mrs. Twist would want Ennis to liberate her son also.
I would like to think that Ennis would look after Mrs. Twist also just like her own son would have.
Since my first viewing, I have thought that Ennis would someday come back to visit. There is something in Mrs. Twist's face when she tells him to come back that is compelling. She's not just mouthing empty words, but has a deeper meaning. I think Ennis would have picked up on that and would have accommodated her by returning someday. Again, the look is subtle -- not a pleading look, but just a glance of itensity that raises her words to the level of need and truth. Mom's face is marvelous throughout this whole scene. She says more with just a stoic set to her face than words could ever express. She is used to keeping her feelings inside. God knows, she wouldn't have been welcome to share them with the old man. So, when Ennis comes, she has a lot to tell him, but, since she can't speak freely, she has to communicate with him through nonverbals, which she does SOOOOOOO very well. The offer of cherry cake is, I believe, a ploy to keep ENnis there longer. She revels in his presence -- someone who knew and loved Jack for what he was. She had the paper bag ready when he came downstairs, knowing full well he would be bringing the shirts with him. This made her so happy. Oh, I have to quit this post -- can't type through the tears.
Two "sobering moments" here IMO, within minutes of each other - Ennis finds "the shirts", finally realizes the love and longing that Jack had for him since '63 and that he has had inside himself for Jack. Then, just moments later downstairs, old man Twist puffs up about "we got a family plot, and he's goin' in it", Mrs. T suddenly realizes Jack's not going back to Brokeback where he wanted. The exchange of looks here between Ennis and Mrs. T, their eyes and faces, whew! I'm gonna' have to go watch this again (and again).
:\'(
What makes me hesitate is what was written in the screenplay: when re the shirts were what remained of the power of BBM.
But surely he would not leave Jack alone indefinitely -- there in the midst of the grieving plain...
Nice posts, Jackster, tpe, and beautifully argued, indeed, lamusica - I too have seen this: silently with her eyes and face Mom lets Ennis know (and he does pick up on it) that Ennis is welcomed to come back and get Jack and put him where his heart always was, as soon as the old bastard dies, and with as much help as Mom can give. (I've imagined them walking to that pitiful little cemetery, digging shallowly in the dry ground, Mom taking a symbolic dig or two of earth, freeing her son from his father's curse.) The shirts were the relics of the power that was Brokeback, but its power was to provide a world where they could get away from pain, fear and hate, where they could come to life, away from all their fears, obligations and expectations of misery, back to being able to care. Ennis comes all the way back from a boy whose emotions and soul were straitjacketed by the horror in his childhood to a father who can ask his own child, "Does he love you?" and know what he's talking about.
I would add even a third sobering moment in the Twist's kitchen - that look on Ennis's face when the bastard says "...and he's goin' in it." It obvious he can't believe the old shit would be that mean, but he knows enough to agree and be quiet - he's read Mom that she wants no trouble with the bastard, and Ennis complies, looking a little more sober.
I would add even a third sobering moment in the Twist's kitchen - that look on Ennis's face when the bastard says "...and he's goin' in it."
Good observation zephK.
I've just watched this scene again and there's a fourth "moment" here in the kitchen that may have been mentioned before but I don't recall seeing it - old man Twist: "Then this spring, got another fella' gonna' come up here with him, build a place, help run the ranch . . . ", this revelation hits Ennis like a ton of bricks and you can see it in his face, they way it sags and looks like a little boy who just lost his puppy. At that moment Mrs. T puts her hand out to his shoulder to comfort him, like, it's alright, its alright, (same words spoken by Jack SNIT).
Ennis needs a hug. :\'(
Since my first viewing, I have thought that Ennis would someday come back to visit. There is something in Mrs. Twist's face when she tells him to come back that is compelling. She's not just mouthing empty words, but has a deeper meaning. I think Ennis would have picked up on that and would have accommodated her by returning someday. Again, the look is subtle -- not a pleading look, but just a glance of itensity that raises her words to the level of need and truth. Mom's face is marvelous throughout this whole scene. She says more with just a stoic set to her face than words could ever express. She is used to keeping her feelings inside. God knows, she wouldn't have been welcome to share them with the old man. So, when Ennis comes, she has a lot to tell him, but, since she can't speak freely, she has to communicate with him through nonverbals, which she does SOOOOOOO very well. The offer of cherry cake is, I believe, a ploy to keep ENnis there longer. She revels in his presence -- someone who knew and loved Jack for what he was. She had the paper bag ready when he came downstairs, knowing full well he would be bringing the shirts with him. This made her so happy. Oh, I have to quit this post -- can't type through the tears.
Good observation zephK.
I've just watched this scene again and there's a fourth "moment" here in the kitchen that may have been mentioned before but I don't recall seeing it - old man Twist: "Then this spring, got another fella' gonna' come up here with him, build a place, help run the ranch . . . ", this revelation hits Ennis like a ton of bricks and you can see it in his face, they way it sags and looks like a little boy who just lost his puppy. At that moment Mrs. T puts her hand out to his shoulder to comfort him, like, it's alright, its alright, (same words spoken by Jack SNIT).
Ennis needs a hug. :\'(
To me personally I think OMT meant it.
Don't think he made it up, just to hurt Ennis intentionally. I think it was said in the scene to show that Jack was thinking of quitting Ennis at some point and living with Randall. This knowledge hurt Ennis nonetheless. A wake up call for im, a little to late.. A realization of how much Jack had hoped for a whole life with some one. This was stunning new news to Ennis. He had to wonder who this ranch neighbor was at this point cuz Jack had mentioned earlier that it was the WIFE with whom he was having the affair with, not the guy himself.
The old man remembered exactly in what time frame Jack was planning or thinking about bringing the "other fella" up, ( then this spring...) so he saw a series of changes in Jack's life involving these two men. his lovers.
fisrt it was Ennis for a while, then it changed to the ranch neighbor.
How else could he put 2 and 2 together concerning Jack and his *ranch neighbor*? unless Jack brought it up in the context of promising to bring one of them up to help whip the ranch into shape.. Ennis is one thing , Jack truly loved him, but Randall? a different story. It all suggests to me that the old man was telling Ennis that he realized exactly who he was and what the relationship was between Ennis and his son. " Another fella" speaks volumes to me. Jack was'nt bringing pretty girls home to meet the parents,, not even Lureen. only men......although personally, I think Jack had great tastes in his choices. I feel Jack was working on living with Randall when he died.
I feel Jack was working on living with Randall when he died.
So I agree that Randall was a different story.
Kinda OT here - but then OMT says "But like most a Jack's ideas, never come ta' pass . . ." What goin' on here? There's the obvious Randall storyline, but after talkin' 'bout Ennis for what, a dozen years or more, then Jack starts talkin' about a new guy. But then he can't make that happen either. Why did he mention it if he wasn't sure he was able to make it happen? It would just make him look like more of a loser to OMT wouldn't it? Did he and Randall then "split up"? Yeah, Jack's a dreamer so he has lotsa ideas - A Sweet Life, just to mention one, but this whole thing about it not happening (with Randall) doesn't seem very well worked out to me. Am I off base here, huh?
Randall was already Jack's lover by the time of final confrontation. I always had the feeling when Ennis ask Jack if he had a better idea, and Jack said "I did once", he was talking about Randall, but Ennis assume it was Mexico, Jack went along with it. So when Jack went to LF, after that, he spoke of Randall and not Ennis. When Old Man Twist was telling the story to Ennis, he must have put it together, because if looks could kill, Old Man Twist was a goner.
When OMT says, “Then this spring . . . “ is “this spring” the time Jacks visits LF after the “quit you” argument with Ennis in May? Jack said then that he was going to visit his folks for a few days. Does he tell them he’s got another fella at that time? Did he know this when he and Ennis had the argument? Sorry if this OT, but it seems kind of related to the sobering moment(s) in this scene and the Argument scene too. Is Ennis realizing this at the Twist table and putting the “quit you” and “another fella” statements together in his head? Maybe I’m just dense but I guess I never realized the possible direct connection here.
:s)
It must have been a sobering moment for Mrs. Twist when she discovered that her son had another lover, after so much talk about Ennis for years. I wonder what she thought of the fact that Jack had another *fella* besides the one who had such a gift of love hanging upstairs in the closet?
I'd think the realization of Jack's other 'lover' didn't hold much weight with Mrs. Twist. I think if anything, she may have easily recognized it as a way for Jack to 'get by' while living for Ennis. She may have even found a similarity between this and her sticking it out with OMT. ;D I mean he's not exactly a bowl of cherries.
She must have felt genuine love with another (or OMT at some point) and, like Jack, couldn't then make it alone. She holds on to OMT and probably saw this Randall guy as something systematic delivering Jack from one moment to the next for the condition of Ennis.
Anyway, she probably brushed Randall off as clutter, something filling Jack's atmosphere until his true love Ennis were to settle in like the cement Jack needed. And the shirts upstairs were Mrs. Twist's way of knowing the specific ingredients of that cement. Anything else would just be filler.
Does anyone else think as I do that it must have been a pretty sobering moment for OMT when Ennis appeared?
Does anyone else thnk as I do that it must have been a pretty sobering moment for OMT when Ennis appeared ? He'd been hearing about him for years, and knew he had always failed to come with Jack - now suddenly when Jack is dead there is Ennis. I wonder if heds thought that both Ennis and the other man Jack mentioned were both figments of Jack's imagination, or at least less of a feature of his life than Jack had made out?
Yes indeed WW, me too, and good point. It may have part of the reason OMT won't give up Jack's ashes. His way of sayin' "He's not yours, he's mine. You two go playing around all them years and then you finally show up here wanting his ashes - no way!" Just being a SOB.
I've wondered if he had some idea about Jack, and Ennis's arrival confirms what he hadn't admitted to himself before - that he had a son who was gay. He seems to be in the grip of some sort of repressed rage all the time Ennis is there.
This totally true about OMT WW.! He's probably been carrying this *repressed rage* as you say, around for a long time. ever since he suspected his son, even as a boy. Perhaps, this is the reason why Jack could never please him.
Jack , I suppose never knew his father suspected him of being gay as a boy, but This is sometimes intuitive in parents. Jack kept trying to please his father first just as a son. The old man saw a gay son. It indeed must have been a sobering moment for him. I agree, Ennis's arrival was a confrimation of his son's homosexuality. A part of Jack which OMT can never accept, thus Jack's inability to ever please him all those years. MO.
Another sobering moment is for Alma. When Ennis returned home from the motel with Jack she looked like she had been up all night. What she had seen must have stayed with her. Then here comes Ennis, packing to spend days more with Jack. She goes to the window, looks out and see that Jack is still there .and Ennis was leaving with him again. She immediatley starts trying to get Ennis to stay with her but Ennis did'nt budge. He had answers for all her *worries* and she knew why. . He's from Texas", "That boss owes me time off" etc... To watch Ennis drive off with Jack was probably a double confirmation that her husband 's heart belonged to Jack long before her ,and it was the *fishing buddy* who sent the postcard "genral delivery" who was the one her husband really wanted. "Jack Nasty" had her Ennis. Another very sobering moment for her I think.
And then she was left on her own for several days to think over the significance of what she'd seen - the reunion kiss, the evident tension between Jack, Ennis and herself when Jack was introduced to her, Jack's staying outside the next morning when the natural thing would have been to come in, Ennis's incredible haste to get away, missing work, which he almost never did. This must have shown her a totally different side of her husband. I wonder if she ever felt the same about him after this?
And then she was left on her own for several days to think over the significance of what she'd seen - the reunion kiss, the evident tension between Jack, Ennis and herself when Jack was introduced to her, Jack's staying outside the next morning when the natural thing would have been to come in, Ennis's incredible haste to get away, missing work, which he almost never did. This must have shown her a totally different side of her husband. I wonder if she ever felt the same about him after this?
I see another sobering moment when Aguirre informs Jack that he saw them doing * the business* on Brokeback. This had to be very sobering for Jack, judging from his reaction to this news. Perhaps he feared Aguirre would tell others what he saw. Maybe this is why he never told Ennis about this. Probably thought this would definitly spook the hell out of Ennis huh?
I doubt it. . She had to realize that her whol life was a farce, totally blindsided by it. She also had ywo girls to think about. I feel after this she became much more open to Monroe's interest in her.
Your comment here reminds me of Alma's first "sobering moment" about Ennis: the July 4 scene.
She was absolutely surprised at Ennis's anger. It probably frightened her -- having never really seen this side of her husband. It spoke of pent-up anger. What was the souce of all this anger? She must have wondered...
Did she make a connection later between this and the reunion?
Since my first viewing, I have thought that Ennis would someday come back to visit. There is something in Mrs. Twist's face when she tells him to come back that is compelling. She's not just mouthing empty words, but has a deeper meaning. I think Ennis would have picked up on that and would have accommodated her by returning someday. Again, the look is subtle -- not a pleading look, but just a glance of itensity that raises her words to the level of need and truth. Mom's face is marvelous throughout this whole scene. She says more with just a stoic set to her face than words could ever express. She is used to keeping her feelings inside. God knows, she wouldn't have been welcome to share them with the old man. So, when Ennis comes, she has a lot to tell him, but, since she can't speak freely, she has to communicate with him through nonverbals, which she does SOOOOOOO very well. The offer of cherry cake is, I believe, a ploy to keep ENnis there longer. She revels in his presence -- someone who knew and loved Jack for what he was. She had the paper bag ready when he came downstairs, knowing full well he would be bringing the shirts with him. This made her so happy. Oh, I have to quit this post -- can't type through the tears.
You get that sense, that feeling at the very beginning when Mrs. Twist steps out the house to meet Ennis. She knew who he was, and what he was to Jack, and met him, not waiting for him to come to the door, or waiting for the knock, but meets him as someone important that comes to visit you at your home.
Even when Old Man Twist makes mentioned of Randall, she knew better, and told Ennis he was welcome to go to Jack's room. There were two emotions at work in this one scene, deep love and bitter disappointment, a battle for the memory of Jack between mother and father expressing distinctly how they felt about their son, to someone both knew was his lover.
Ennis got the sense of both people, this was Jack's world, something I don't think he ever really understood, or thought much about, not the way Jack understood him.
Jack didn't come to manhood with a "Rich or Earl" looming in the back of his mind, Jack grew up torn between the two people who raised him. Caught between brutality and love, with Jack choosing love and seeking it, and wanting it and giving it all to Ennis. When Ennis found the shirts he was just beginning to understand his long time lover, for these shirts was from the first summer, not after the reunion, but from the very beginning, Jack loved him then, and loved him till his death. And through it all Mrs. Twist knew and honored it.
Ennis had to feel a sense of relief, that someone knew and took pity on him.
That's part of starting to grow up, isn't it - to realise that your parents have a life that's not accessible to you. It seems likely that Bobby would have learned this too -as he grew up he must have been aware of the "fishing trips" and most kids would ahve asked what they entailed, where dad was going, whether they could come too....
A sobering moment for old man Twist (OMT)
OMT doesn’t say a thing about Jack’s ashes until Ennis comes down from Jack’s room. When Ennis reappears he’s got something of Jack’s in his hands, as far as OMT knows it may just be one of Jack’s shirts (mother Twist probably knows better). Is it at this moment, when he (OMT) realizes for sure that there was a deep, intimate relationship between these two men, that he decides to not let Jack’s ashes go? As if he’s sayin’ to Ennis “You may have had my son’s love and now you got his shirt, but goddamn you, I’m keepin’ his ashes you SOB”. Was this OMTs sobering moment when he understands for sure the real value of the relationship and this is the way, the only way left to him, to strike back at Ennis and even at Jack’s mother who probably wanted to see Jack’s last wish (his ashes on Brokeback) come true. Makes me feel kind of warm to know that Ennis took this step of exposing his relationship to this bastard and that by doing so proved to him the true value of Jack and Jack’s love in such a way that the old man wanted to react but really had no other options but this little, petty holding back of a dead man’s ashes.
A sobering moment for old man Twist (OMT)
OMT doesn’t say a thing about Jack’s ashes until Ennis comes down from Jack’s room. When Ennis reappears he’s got something of Jack’s in his hands, as far as OMT knows it may just be one of Jack’s shirts (mother Twist probably knows better). Is it at this moment, when he (OMT) realizes for sure that there was a deep, intimate relationship between these two men, that he decides to not let Jack’s ashes go? As if he’s sayin’ to Ennis “You may have had my son’s love and now you got his shirt, but goddamn you, I’m keepin’ his ashes you SOB”. Was this OMTs sobering moment when he understands for sure the real value of the relationship and this is the way, the only way left to him, to strike back at Ennis and even at Jack’s mother who probably wanted to see Jack’s last wish (his ashes on Brokeback) come true. Makes me feel kind of warm to know that Ennis took this step of exposing his relationship to this bastard and that by doing so proved to him the true value of Jack and Jack’s love in such a way that the old man wanted to react but really had no other options but this little, petty holding back of a dead man’s ashes.
Yes Jackser I agree it was a petty thing to do, but if this is true, then he's a heartless old SOB, but what if while Ennis was upstairs, OMT questioned Mrs. Twist about what was going on. Something like "what the hell you sendin him up to Jack's room for? Maybe they did'nt remain silent during this time. Of course this is only speculation on my part.
Perhaps when Ennis came down with the shirts, Mrs. Twist had informed the old man that Jack wanted his friend to have a keepsake of Jack's or something to that affect? And what if OMT had tried to stop Ennis from taking the shirts or anything else out of the house? Then what/ A tussle?
I don't think Mr. Twist dared to experience THAT %( >:D ;D sobering moment. Just a thought. Thanks
I think just being there in their preasence had to have sort of a * spooky* feel. This place where Jack grew up and had spoken of so many times to Ennis. It had to affect Ennis tremendously. This is the place he and Jack were suppose to " whip into shape" together he must have thought as he scoped out the place even before he went in. Then meeting Mrs. Twist , who seemed to have alot of Jack's qualities and virtues. Must have hit very close to home for Ennis.
Yes. It's just enthralling to consider what constitutes for spooky here
Has anyone noticed Mrs. Twist's wording when she said " you'll want a cup of coffee don't ya ? A piece of cherry cake? As if Jack has told her Ennis LIKES coffee and cake? Or am I wrong?
Interesting. Just the other day I repeatedly played that line, but I was very much absorbing her expression and tone, specially at the end - her cryptic nod of the head and sincerity with "..of cherry cake." That was deep in its consciousness.
Thanks orangetruck.
. . . I feel that the entire set of scenes in LF are spooky. . . . It is as if Jack prompts her from the shadows...
Boy, how well said both of you orangetruck and thomas. I remember being so struck during my first viewing of the entire LF scene. The way Mrs. Twist beckons him in, into that WHITE house. Everything is white, like the whole thing is an apparition and Ennis is floating through it, this other world, Jack's old world. And then Ennis comes out the "other side" with this small piece of immortality, the shirts. Spooky is dead on.
Sobering momenet for sure. The symbolusm of the house being white, inside and out, is a nice touch. In the ss, it is a very different kind of house and it's brown. I wonder whose idea it was to make it white. I always felt the white symbolized the sterility of Jack's upbringing -- no color, no life, little touch or love.
I agree about feeling Jack is there throughout that whole sequence of scenes. His essence is so present in many ways, including the little wooden horse he had whittled, the shirts intertwined, the room so bleak with such a withered view. Surely Ennis felt that Jack was there with him! Thus the tears and the "I love you" that many say they have heard when ENnis held the shirts to his face.
There is a gothic flavor to the entire sequence of scenes in LF, which probably reinforces the sobering quality with respect to all the characters involved. Especially in Jack's bedroom, you definitely get the feeling of Jack's disembodied presence. In fact, it has been discussed that Ennis seems to have been beckoned into the closet.
Probably as well as he'd been beckoned out of it the 20 years before.
What an eerie homestead. :i
Another sobering moment to me is when Jack first comes face to face with Alma. He must of been a bundle of nervous curiosity, ( and obvious sexually, energetic anticipation., after that makeout with Ennis) but any way, She is Enni's wife, made Ennis a father,This is the person who he has to vie with for Ennis. His rival. The person who stood in the way back in 1963 when Ennis walked a way from him, promised to her to marry. She changed the direction his relationship could have gone with Ennis. So this is Alma? ??? %&)
The sexual tension is thick enough to cut with a knife, but told in such a brief scene, you can feel it.
Closely following the reunion scene is the motel scene with some very sobering moments of its own. I think when Jack presses Ennis to make some sort of arrangements so they could either live together or be together on a more regular basis, Ennis rebuffs Jack once again and explains that it "ain't gonna be that way" because he has responsibilities. He made his life and now he has to live it. Jack had all these hopes built up inside, and when Ennis greeted him so warmly, Jack was sure Ennis had had a change of heart and was finally ready to make some sort of life with Jack. Then Ennis goes and breaks Jack's heart all over by refusing to budge. That had to be a sobering moment. All Jack's plans just hit the dust once again.
American Gothic - the painting, I mean - comes to my mind when I see the Twist home and Jack's father.
Another sobering moment to me is when Jack first comes face to face with Alma. He must of been a bundle of nervous curiosity, ( and obvious sexually, energetic anticipation., after that makeout with Ennis) but any way, She is Enni's wife, made Ennis a father,This is the person who he has to vie with for Ennis. His rival. The person who stood in the way back in 1963 when Ennis walked a way from him, promised to her to marry. She changed the direction his relationship could have gone with Ennis. So this is Alma? ??? %&)
Closely following the reunion scene is the motel scene with some very sobering moments of its own. I think when Jack presses Ennis to make some sort of arrangements so they could either live together or be together on a more regular basis, Ennis rebuffs Jack once again and explains that it "ain't gonna be that way" because he has responsibilities. He made his life and now he has to live it. Jack had all these hopes built up inside, and when Ennis greeted him so warmly, Jack was sure Ennis had had a change of heart and was finally ready to make some sort of life with Jack. Then Ennis goes and breaks Jack's heart all over by refusing to budge. That had to be a sobering moment. All Jack's plans just hit the dust once again.
Beautifully stated, manhattangirl. That was a very sad sobering moment indeed.
And in that space of time the two Ennis emerges, never fused together until the end of Jack's life. The Ennis totally and forever in love with Jack, needing, wanting him, and having him. Never letting him go, and not be able to live without him.
Then the Ennis that was able to keep him away, denying the lover what he wanted, a life with him. Excuse after excuse of whys and the howcomes of not having a life. Scheduling their meetings. Controlling his own need so well, and so masterfully that he couldn't see his other life, his "straight life" slowly fading away to almost a "nonexistent" existence.
Why this was sobering moment we are witness to a man splitting himself in two in order to survive. Self protection from the very thing he wanted and couldn't fight. Being able to succumb to it then walk away from it.
Ennis's was a tortured soul indeed. This "duel" going on inside him fear and shame vs longing for a love he cannot freely express , and knowing that neither part of him can win this. A lose/lose situation for him. Can't live with it, can't live without it.
Here's another sobering (literally) moment for Ennis. FNIT. When Ennis awakes and finds his hand on Jack. A WTF, then a realization that he was being prompted to do the deed with Jack. and he was'nt taking no for an answer! He knew they liked each other alot but this was totally out of the blue for him.
I imagine that Ennis went through many sobering moments in a short time leading up to the act itself. ( " he wants me to do something" ) He could have opted for something other than what he decided to partake in. I wonder what it was that made him go " all the way" this first time, as opposed to maybe ....ahem.. just a mutual ..hand job.? He may have been a little drunk still but THIS sobering moment brought him back to reality real fast!. An " opportunity" he could'nt refuse.
It was also a sobering moment for Jack when Ennis did go as far as he did with this. Sometimes, I think that Jack really did'nt expect it to go this far though he may have wanted it to. After all it was he that unbuckeled his own belt, instead of Ennis's, leaving it up to Ennis to take the next step himself. Ennis took it from there.
Did'nt have to take it this far, but he did. An unexpected dream come true? Maybe so. MHO.
Interesting this comes up. I think what made him go 'all the way' was the idea that none of it was 'kosher' in Ennis' mind to begin with. Just like in Ennis' general expression and demeanor, there wasn't any room to be creative or passionate. It was easiest probably to simply fill in the blank so to speak, in and out. We notice this was done rough and quick. Taking time to be sensual or to actually explore Jack would have probably equated Ennis shutting down before guns fired. No, Ennis needed to be thrown into this one like he'd been thrown into everything else in his life.
Naturally, however, I would have loved to see other forms of intimate contact, even just insinuated (i.e. handjob, oral). But then I think I would have been overly distracted, or that Ennis' character would not have vibrated with the same poignant fragility (had he been more sexually open) throughout the film.
I find myself searching for excuses though, to be honest. There is also just something primitive and satisfying about the idea of those two, alone, out there in the mountains with so much nature, exploring and taking in each other by means of all senses, namely scent and taste.
Of course, they did have 20 years for this..
Sobering moment still being: Ennis smelled Jack during his insurmountable emotional response (to love) to Jack during SNIT; He could not, as hard as he tried, smell Jack in his upstairs closet during that second century of loving him.
It's that 1-shot business. ^*)
I don't know if any of you would agree with me. The aggressiveness of sex and the tempered pace of making love had to be learned by both, there wasn't a "Dr. Ruth" around to guide them.
The FNIT was instinct coming from somewhere deep inside, and the satisfaction of the need. How did Jack know to grasp Ennis's hand, how did Ennis know to take Jack, and give his virginity to him? Why did Jack egg Ennis on saying " come on, come on".
Was not IMO a drunken rage Ennis had against Jack, but something simmering inside for each other the need to be closer to each other, physically closer.
SNIT totally aware of that need, wanting each other again, with no rush, no aggression, but giving over and giving in to it. Loving it, this thing.
What do they do now? What do they call it? All they really knew it was nobody's business but theirs.
A sobering moment for me was when Ennis talked about love in the final scene with his daughter and gave in to going to her wedding. cooperating at last. making someone happy at last. After a lifetime of pushing people away who loved him. Could this be because he was abandoned and pushed away as a child? Absence of love was a way of life for him. So, it was a big deal for him to step up to the plate and come forward to Jr. It was so un-Ennis.
(the Hours represents this so well) I tend to believe that once something has entered one's history, it simply is delt with. It's not thrown away, it's either present or it's put into a dresser drawer so to speak; and those dresser drawers are open not always intentionally because we forget exactly where everything is tucked in. While looking for or acquiring certain emotions or memories we may uncover something significant. The love Jack'd left Ennis certainly isn't going to just vanish; this is like a ninja star in one of Ennis's drawers, so when it's found ... something happens.
Like that term "... oh my heart bleeds"... Ennis doesn't exactly have the leeway of letting it be, for Jack is a rather violent knock on the door of Ennis' heart, one that was never made to be ignored..
I think Jr., had she been allowed to move into Ennis' place or not, is going to get good at arranging her dad's dresser in order to keep him as human (responsive to love) as she'd finally started seeing him.
Initially it won't seem it - but I reckon it's lucky for Ennis that J's star reflects more than Earl's crowbar.
And I do believe that that Jack's love resurfaced during the exchange between Alma Jr. and Ennis at the end of the film. It opened a drawer, so to speak, close to the core of Ennis's heart where Jack's love had always resided. It was not just a sobering moment. It was a moment of awakening, similar to the madeleine incident at the start of Proust's great work. The mere mention of the phrase "He loves me" brought the reality home to Ennis -- that he was loved. And that made all the difference.
:) Yeah.
The Jr. and dad in trailer scene, to me, is poignant like the last confrontation one, the SNIT, etc. They were powerful turning points for the boys (namely lastly Ennis), however subtle or not..
Jr. answering that question was like an awakening, another powerful lesson but without Jack's coaching. It was very sobering for me to watch Ennis unable to stifle the emotions being cast out of the window of the trailer perhaps in some dire response to not just Alma Jr. but Ennis' own inexperience of losing something he felt for. He was clearly drawing straws as he spoke to Jr. from the corner of his sun lit face.
Jr. being about the same age now as Ennis had been when Jack had come into his life. Seeing his daughter in 'naive' love must hit Ennis so ironically hard and all at once. Not only does hearing Jr. answer Ennis when he asked ".. He loves you?" touch Ennis, but hearing himself finally ask this question while having never done so for himself when, as he knows now, it had been so damn applicable years back was, I believe, very spiritually stimulating. Ennis and stoic no longer share the same definition.
A little something about how he folds and smells Jr.'s sweater before putting it in his closet above (as opposed to the dead below? Nevermind that eerie idea, just thinking out loud) Jack's protected shirt:
It must have been sobering or maybe just noticable for Ennis to, say, realize he could have worked much better with having been given the lesson of Jr.'s shirt before that of Jack's.
He holds onto Alma Jr.'s shirt, having crossed over to her language of love. But he wouldn't cross that bridge with Jack and, now, putting the sweater up temporarily probably provides grousome contrast between love and its absense; fear itself made Ennis susceptible to learning the hard way.
But now I think he can feel the words come out of his soul when he insists:
If you can't fix it, you got to stand it.
It must jar Ennis when he realises that Alma Jr is the same age as he was when he met Jack but because she's doing the conventional thing she can talk about being in love, plan her wedding, speak about here intended husband, all the things Ennis was never able to do. At thispoint Ennismust be 40 but one tends to see him as nmuch older, someone whose life has become a long process of getting through the lonely years to come.
*o) Incidentlally, I wonder how people of Jack's and Ennis's period would have reacted to the way things have changed? Here at least we have civil parnerships and remarks like the one in a newspaper interview with Tom Ford this morning - it's a series where people in the news are asked the same set of questions. To where was his favorite place to eat he replied, "In bed, having a Chinese takeout with " then the name of his partner. Then the interview moved on.
You bring up a real good point -- one that makes you think. I, too, wonder what Ennis and Jack would do if they found themselves in love etoday. Things really have not changed in Wyoming or many other places in the US, especially in the rural areas and the wildwest. I wonder if Ennis would have been any different that he was in 1963. I think he still would have the shame his father instilled in him. I can't see him openly admitting he was gay and openly having a relationship with another man. Jack, though, might have moved to a more accepting area of the country and lived his life out of the closet, so to speak. He was more willing to take chances and push the envelope. This is a good discussion point, ww. I am interested in hearing other's view on this issue.
Another sobering moment seemed to be when Jack told Ennis that 42 sheep had been killed by lightening the previous summer Jack worked Brokeback. He must have thought " What the hell am I getting into here?" This could be very dangerous . That's ALOT of sheep! The mountain, in it's beautiful majesty held alot of dangers. Bears, snowstorms, hailstorms, lightening ,cliffs , isolation ,+ Aguirre was asking them to do something against the rules in the first place. At 19 , these were two brave young men, mature beyond their years concerning work ethic, especially when compared to today's breed of 19 year olds. MO.