Brokeback Mountain Forum @ ennisjack.com
The Movie & Story => Characters, Quotes & Scenes => Topic started by: proulxfan on Aug 18, 2007, 12:36 PM
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Because I don't have children of my own, ( human children that is ...) I am fascinated with and mystified by the complex challenge of trying to be a good parent.
I am also mindful of the perspective that parents dearly hope for their children to be spared the pain of mistakes made in their own pasts.
Suppose that Alma Jr. and/or Bobby asks their respective father(s) for advice on whether or not to go ahead with a potential romantic relationship that seems to present serious, perhaps dangerous obstacles. (E.g. Alma Jr. asks Ennis, Bobby asks Jack.) I'll assume dangerous to mean from an emotional/psychological perspective, rather than physical...in other words full of emotional risks!
How do you think they would answer this question? "Follow your heart?" "Be careful, evaluate the risks?"
No cop outs allowed!! No saying " Sorry honey, you'll just have to figure this out for yourself." Alma Jr. and/or Bobby ask their dads: "What would you do if you were in my place?"
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Interesting question Proulxfan.
The first thing that occurs to me is exactly what was said in the movie –
“This Kurt fella . . . . does he love you?”
Direct, to the point, using few words (it’s Ennis speaking).
If love is there ALL else can be conquered.
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Interesting point, Jackster. And the film does tell us that Kurt is a "roughneck". But there are really no apparent obstacles to Alma's being able to be happy with him.
I don't necessarily have specific problems/obstacles in mind, just that the match in question should pose significant problems-and yes I know all relationships face problems-but here I'm thinking big, perhaps "insurmountable" ones...
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Considering all that Jack and Ennis have gone through, I believe they both, independent of the other, would advise their children in the face of a difficult relationship, that they need to do what their heart tells them to do. BUT, if that brings terrible heartache to them, they will have to deal with that hurt themselves, too. This is no cop-out. It's the only honest thing a parent can tell his child. If you have to have something, go for it, but be damned willing and able to pay the price it takes out on you. I think Jack and Ennis both paid a big price for their love, and Ennis might have lived to regret some of his decisioins -- maybe not-- but he held firm. He loved Jack 'til death did they part -- marriage vows weren't necessary. And he went right on loving Jack after Jack died.
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I wonder what advice Jack would have given Bobby in such a situation. Would not some of the bitterness of love come out with some of the sweetness? I remember Houseman's lines:
I see the country far away
Where I shall never stand;
The heart goes where no footstep may
Into the promised land.
The realm I look upon and die
Another man will own;
He shall attain the heaven that I
Perish and have not known.
And again:
When I was one-and-twenty
I heard a wise man say,
'Give crowns and pounds and guineas
But not your heart away;
Give pearls away and rubies
But keep your fancy free.'
But I was one-and-twenty,
No use to talk to me.
When I was one-and-twenty
I heard him say again,
'The heart out of the bosom
Was never given in vain;
'Tis paid with sighs a plenty
And sold for endless rue.'
And I am two-and-twenty,
And oh, 'tis true, 'tis true.
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We pretty much know what Ennis would say from his conservation with Alma, and that is follow your heart. Jack having experienced a lot of heartache born out of frustration with Ennis, might have told Bobby to choose carefully who you love, look for someone who wants to share your life everyday, don't settle for the first one who has sex with you.
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Interesting question Proulxfan.
The first thing that occurs to me is exactly what was said in the movie –
“This Kurt fella . . . . does he love you?”
Direct, to the point, using few words (it’s Ennis speaking).
If love is there ALL else can be conquered.
I have to admit that this is the notion that I had in mind when posting this thread, but given what we witness and experience in this film, I am questioning/challenging it: The only things we see conquered here are the lovers themselves-Jack and Ennis, plus to a somewhat lesser extent, their wives and children.
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I had to think this one over a while but I think Jack would tell his child that sometimes love can be blind so go into it with eyes wide open. He should tell him that love can make it seem that anything is possible and it can be, but it can bring you down to your lowest form, as well as up to your highest highs, just make sure you know if it's real or not. Get to know your partner well and most of all COMMUNICATE! It aint all sweetness and light everyday. But once you find it it's going to require both people in the thing to have fun but be faithfully prepared for anything society throws at ya. And it can throw so doozys.
Ennis? well it's the *tree of woe* for any guy who hurts either of his little darlins, but Ennis beleives in love so he can offer advice to to his girls telling his girls that he will always love them , and will be there for them if need be. He would tell them to know and love themselves first ,for it is only when you can love yourself that you will be able to love another. that's all. My 2 cents.
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Sorry to bump up a thread that hasn't been commented on for a while, but I just thought I should reply to this one. I believe that Ennis and Jack would have told their children the same thing. With Ennis, we pretty much see him doing just that in the movie. When he tells Junior "Does he love you?", we can tell what he really means by that question. I can imagine Ennis in the years ahead having conversations with his daughters and them coming to him for advice, and he, now wiser and more reflective from his experiences would tell them to always listen to their hearts, and never let anything else get in the way. I believe Jack would do the same, he never regretted loving Ennis in the slightest no matter how much pain it caused him over the years that Ennis wouldn't listen to him and kept them apart for all that time. Jack would never ever give up on Ennis, and he not died, he would have continued trying to get Ennis to listen to him. While the hope that Ennis would finally listen to him did diminish after twenty years, it could never completely go away. I believe in the end if we were to ask Jack was it worth it to love Ennis this much, and was it worth going through the pain of not being able to be with him, what would you rather have, Ennis and that pain of being part, or having never met Ennis at all? And Jack's answer would be definitely be that it was worth it, and that he could never imagine going through this life and not meeting Ennis. Jack loved Ennis for he was, loved everything about him, and although he was frustrated at Ennis's fear, he wouldn't want to change anything else about Ennis, he only wanted to make Ennis realize that he needs to just listen to his heart, and we all know in the end, he makes Ennis finally realize this and learn that lesson, even though tragically, it was too late for Ennis to tell Jack in this life. So Jack's advice would be to never settle for anything less than true love, and that true love is definitely worth it. And never give up on it, because true love transcends everything.
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I do agree that the older Ennis (and Jack, had he lived) would have so much to share in terms of love and regret. They would have spared their children a great deal of growing pains, if the latter would have asked them for advice...