Brokeback Mountain Forum @ ennisjack.com
The Movie & Story => Characters, Quotes & Scenes => Topic started by: babytammy7 on Sep 01, 2007, 01:42 PM
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Hi there Brokies!!!
Well you know, I only speak spanish so again and again (Tpe, Ethan, Lamusica, MPJ… ^f^) sorry so much for my horrible English!!!
I think about ours two cowboys a lot of times a day. During the last year and half every time I thought about Ennis and Jack they had the appearance of their 19-24 years.
I’d always loved Jack with Brokeback’s look: so young, sweet, with puppy eyes, perfectly shaven, completely dressed of blue, sexy, dreamer, full of hope!!! <^( And I liked so much Ennis in the kiss reunion, 24 years old, dishevelled, with his white and blue shirt, young but more mature, tender but strong, with a shy smile, melted brown eyes, passionate, so gorgeous!!! :clap: And, really, that is the Ennis and Jack’s look I’d always loved, and that was the image I had in mind every time I heard their names, every time I read a fanfic or something like that, every time I thought in BBM.
However, my mind started to change 3 weeks ago. Suddenly, every time I thought about ours boys I saw them with the look of their wonderful 39 years old, and I don’t know why!!! But it was fine, so good, ‘cause I noticed that they was more incredible, hot and nice with 39 years than 19-24 years. Men from head to feet, :d) mature, with more experience, still gentle but a little bitter too, with all these thin, irresistible and beautiful wrinkles around their eyes and mouths and a few grey hairs too, with deep, sensual, sad and hopeless eyes, without dreams but still with so much love inside, so beautiful and…more macho? :8 >:D But is not only their physical appearance that I like; that tattered passion, that endless sadness, that pain without limits, that longing never satisfied...all these feelings lying in their tired eyes, in those broken smiles.....just kills me...... :\'( :\'( :\'(
So now, every time I think about them they have the last confrontation’s look, and that is the look I like most!!! Really, I love it!!!
What about you Brokies? Which is your prefer Ennis and Jack’s look? Do you want them to be 19 or 39 years old? When you think about them, what picture do you see in your mind?
Kisses from Spain :^^)
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Personally, I prefer the younger look, when they were just falling in love, so fresh and innocent in their ways, with their whole future ahead of them. I like boyishly handsome men, with little to no stubble on their faces, so naturally I like their 19-year-old look the best! :)
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Babytammy, your English is great. You can be well understood, believe me!
I like both looks. When they were young, they were just so damned handsome! Their emotions played upon their clear, lineless faces. As they experienced life, however, their faces changed, as you pointed out. The little lines, and quirky, sort of cynical smiles, the furrows on their brows. All these signs tell us they have gone through some years and the tribulations time brings. I particularly, though, like Ennis as he ages. He is the one who really looks older. He walks differently, talks less, reacts much more slowly. If I didn't know Heath was 25 when he made this film, I would think he really was 45. He becomes older in every way. I don't, however, think Jack ages that well. He still looks great, but he doesn't really act older. So, to answer your question: I prefer the young Jack and the older Ennis.
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Hi Lamusica and Jacks_key!!! Thank you for posting!!! ^f^
Well, Lamusica, thought I lately prefer the older Ennis and Jack, I have to say that, sometimes, I still think about Jack with his younger look, exactly with the dozy embrace look. However, like you, Ennis always have his older look in my mind, and I like him most in this way. So I like your choice!!! :clap:
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Hi again to everybody¡ :h) I agree with you in that perhaps I prefer young Jack and older Ennis,although when I think of them they appear before me when they were young,preferibly when they were just friends,and were playing this game of seduction almost without realising themselves.However,I don´t think Jack didn´t act older,if this has the sense of acting badly(no¡it can´t be¡you´re lying¡);his look is of an older man,but if he reacts fastest is because he always has been more lively than Ennis,in reactions,in the way of speaking and moving,and so on.For me,the way you can see Jack is a man near his 40´s is in his look,so tired,so sad,so dissapointed...;you can see it better in his picture after tghe dozy embrace scene.But I don´t think,no way,that Jake shows the time´s passing worse than Heath.
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Well said PMJ!!!
I agree with you!!! Jake is a great actor, and he play older Jack's role so good. Grey haired moustache, big belly and evident wrinkles aside, as you said, the deep bitterness of his eyes, his tired voice, his gestures full of rage, shows us a new Jack, older, with no more dreams but still with sort of strength to carry on. Now he hardly smiles, he is colder and his words are harder too. As time passed, pain and despair was more evident in his face, and, as you said again, we can clearly see that in Jack's face after the dozy embrace: you see his face during the dozy embrace's scene, and after you see his face when he is watching Ennis' truck leaving, and then, oh really, then you can notice how much Jack has changed!!! :\'(
( *o) ~) MPJ I'd answered your question in the spanish board ^f^)
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Please don't take my previous words as criticism of Jack's acting. They were not meant to be critical. It's just that Ennis, in my eyes, BECAME older. He matured in every way and I prefer him older. Jack, to me, also looks older and more weary, as you have observed, but I still see the young Jack in him. In Ennis, the young Ennis has gone away -- has been replaced by the older man. Both men are superb actors and I do not mean to disparage them in any way. It's just a personal preference I have for Ennis. Maybe I'm just a Heath woman???
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:d)Yeah,your personal preference for Heath/ennis shows clearly,the same as mine for Jake/Jack (^) :d). If I prefer young Jack is not for this exactly,but because he was so nice,so charming,seems so lively and happy in spite of his hard life with his father,and it seems also that he knew what he wanted and how to fight to obtain it,so many positive characteristics that you had to love him,because he gave a fresh air to the story.But for me,older Jack shows much more than
older Ennis the tragedy of their love story:no hope,no happinness,no LIFE.They are as two diferent roles in the same person.For this,I prefer him singing out of tume "Waterwalking Jesus".(no matter how badly he does it...).
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I'd have to say I perfer them as young men- especially Jack. I love them in all of their ages and stages though. I could really get into a good ramble on all the different Jack looks. ;) I am still amazed everytime I see a screencap or watch the film in how I just see Ennis and Jack not Jake and Heath-they both were superb in their roles.
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Yes, they seem to be Ennis and Jack. Heath and Jake look different. Their faces actually look different than our guys. That is the highest possible talent in an actor, I feel -- when you completely lose sight of the actor himself and just are engulfed in the character he is playing.
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I know this is *o) but I am sitting here giggling at all this talk of aging and being old and all the rest - they were 39 at the time!Not even middle-aged from where I'm looking...
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Hi WW, you are not OT!!
Well, as you said, they weren't even middle aged....the truth is they were still young, but with all that pain, sadness and disappointment they changed so fast looking older than they were. You can clearly see this in Ennis.....It is as if he was almost 49 or 50 years old, almost ten years more!!! :\'( He walks like an ancient man!!!
Fo that reason we talk about them as if they were old man, 'cause they look so tired, so worn out, so different.... :-\\
By the way, which Ennis and Jack's look do you prefer?
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I know this is *o) but I am sitting here giggling at all this talk of aging and being old and all the rest - they were 39 at the time!Not even middle-aged from where I'm looking...
Your right WW, all this talk of *old men* at 39 is making me feel like a fossil !!. ; , personally, I like them older. I loved them younger too, but the more established, and experienced and wiser pair appealed to me much more. I just wish there were more love scenes during their older period, they had to be *well seasoned* by then. I loved Jack 's *stache* too. Loved the way older ornery Ennis sported his hat at this stage. 8). The were at 39, still two sexy cowboys. Yes!
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I just wish there were more love scenes during their older period, they had to be *well seasoned* by then.
Aintfoolin, I agree with you!!! I believed I was the only one wishing that!!! I'm always thinking about that, really: more love scenes when they were older; It could be incredible, sooooo sexy :d) :d) :d) :d)
O0
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Yes,I agree and I´ve always thought about this:more love scenes would have made the story more real,because it´s more logical that,after 20 years of relationship,everything is quieter,more relaxed;for this reason,I think some romantic scenes would be the result of these time´s passing. I´ve said "romantic",not necessarily sex scenes-I know someone is already drooling now...-,although it could have been included this book´s scene in which Jack is speaking about problemas with his son when he´s 15 while Ennis is taking his jeans trousers and he puts his hand in Ennis´crotch.It´s when AP writes that "there wasn´t enough time,never enough...",do you remember?.Yuuuuuuuuuum¡
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What about you Brokies? Which is your prefer Ennis and Jack’s look? Do you want them to be 19 or 39 years old? When you think about them, what picture do you see in your mind?
Kisses from Spain :^^)
MMMMM well everytime i think on they the first image than come into my head is the young look when they have 19, but i love the mature look too :d)
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babytammy7, when I think of Ennis and Jack, I invariably see in my mind's eye the Dozy Embrace. It is as if my mind deliberately chooses to remember them this way.
I do have a favorite Jack look -- both from the time up in BBM. I shall find them and repost them here. :)
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I agree with all of you who wish for more tender love scenes. I guess that's why the one-shot of Ennis and Jack in the tent when they are older, sleeping, with Ennis's arm across Jack is so poignant to me. It is all we get to show their closeness other than sex. Here is tenderness, but such a brief glimps!
Concerning my favorite shot of each: I always have loved Ennis's look as he lay against Jack in the motel, smoking, totally relaxed. And I love Jack's look when he welcomes Ennis into the tent on the SNIT. Those two scenes are imprinted on my memory and are luscious to bring to mind from time to time.
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I like the face-to-face shot at the beginning of SNIT and the Dozy embrace, but then again I like Jack's face at the end, the last shot of him, staring after Ennis as hispickup vanishes round the corner. There's a life time of loneliness, incomprehension and frustration in that look.
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but then again I like Jack's face at the end, the last shot of him, staring after Ennis as hispickup vanishes round the corner. There's a life time of loneliness, incomprehension and frustration in that look.
Yeah, WW, that is the Jack`s look I like most!!! It's so sad, heartbreaking but, at the same time, so beautiful and so full of love; well, in fact, I've always thought that Jack's eyes in that scene were not only full of pain and bitterness, but also full of true devotion for Ennis. Because of that, I love Jack's older look: his face, his body, his eyes, his voice are a painful summary of 20 years of love and hope.
Actually I love his confrontation scene's look and I adore the emotion and the quiver in his voice when he says: I wish I knew how to quit you :\'( :\'( :\'(
And, of course, he is so sexy too in that scene :d) :d) :d)
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I prefer another Jack´s look:that one before the dozy embrace.Jack´s face shows so much love,tenderness and peace that comparing it with the other that comes immediately after is like a punch in the stomach. ^^) And I prefer it because it´s the image of something that begin with all the illusion and the strenght:LOVE.
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I prefer another Jack´s look:that one before the dozy embrace.Jack´s face shows so much love,tenderness and peace that comparing it with the other that comes immediately after is like a punch in the stomach. ^^) And I prefer it because it´s the image of something that begin with all the illusion and the strenght:LOVE.
I know, I know, I like too the dozy embrace's look; it's so tender, sweet and innocent, but I prefer the other one 'cause I suppose I have a vision of love a little bit more bittersweet...I don't know well, but I've always seen love with the same Jack's painful eyes: love is light but also darkness.... Sorry, OT!!!
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Yeah,of course,love has a light,but also a dark side,as everything in life...But,why must we make it more problematic? %( Jack´s look after the DE means all the contrary than the one after the confrontation,so it means also a hope that we see it was broken for the circunstances,but that is nice to maintain in every side of life,no?
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Two *looks *that stand out in my mind are Jack's face immediatly after the slamdunk kiss in the reunion scenes and Ennis 's shy direct looks into Jacks eyes in SNIT. total bliss, these two pictures linger and linger and....sigh.. (t) (t) Got ice water ?and a nice fan? maybe a cold shower?.... To me they both looked very...edible ;)
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Best of Ennis, he is washing the dishes in the creek and looks towards the mountain looking for Jack on his horse.
Best of Jack, his face when he tries to wash Ennis wound and the way he looks down when Ennis grabs the clothe.
Both, THe Dozzy Embrace but I have also a crush for the motel scene.
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the picture i see is jack and ennis back in 63 i love jacks face when he says its nobodys buinsness but ours.And ennis,s face when he says you may be a sinner but i aint yet had the opportunity.
I cant bear to see their faces at their last meeting with so much pain on them.
ennis crying and jack watching ennis drive away.
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Another picture for me is... Jack pareing the potato... >:D
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SNİT always on my mind... (t)
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The picture that I see in my mine during SNIT is unprintable in this forum , but believe me, they both look good. It's my fav scene. >:D ;D ;) (t) <^( :cr)
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The picture that I see in my mine during SNIT is unprintable in this forum , but believe me, they both look good. It's my fav scene. >:D ;D ;) (t) <^( :cr)
:8 :8 :8 :8 :8
You bet!!! :clap:
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Two *looks *that stand out in my mind are Jack's face immediatly after the slamdunk kiss in the reunion scenes and Ennis 's shy direct looks into Jacks eyes in SNIT. total bliss, these two pictures linger and linger and....sigh.. (t) (t) Got ice water ?and a nice fan? maybe a cold shower?.... To me they both looked very...edible ;)
Very nice, aintfoolin. I do love that look of surprise in Jack's face after the reunion kiss.
And I also like the shy look in Ennis outside Aguirre's trailer at the start of the movie -- very similar in spirit to the one in SNIT.
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the picture i see is jack and ennis back in 63 i love jacks face when he says its nobodys buinsness but ours.And ennis,s face when he says you may be a sinner but i aint yet had the opportunity.
I cant bear to see their faces at their last meeting with so much pain on them.
ennis crying and jack watching ennis drive away.
Again, these are wonderful choices. I do love both of them very much -- they are looks that are not so simple, no? They are looks that have depth...
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Well brokies, I'm not asking in this topic which your favorite Ennis and Jack's look (glance) is. I want to know which physical appearance is the most nice for your: younger Ennis and Jack or older Ennis and Jack. I said I prefer older. <^(
But, well, it's ok, if you want to talk about looks, here I go friends!!! :clap:
I like all Jack's looks!!! ALL!! Dozy embrace: beautiful, innocent, full of dreams and hope, sweet and tender;after kiss reunion: so in love, passionate, surprised; watching Ennis go away (first goodbye through his truck's mirror and last goodbye after the confrontation scene):sooooo heartbreaking, painful, sad.....; divorce scene: OMG, disappointed, embittered, broken and again sad; when he try to nurse Ennis: so loving, caring and after hurted and sad when Ennis grabs the clothe;when he said " It's nobody bussiness but ours": desperated for being loved; and so many looks more!!!
But if I had to choose one of Jack's looks (glances) I would choose the first!!! When I watched the film for the first time and I watched the look he gave to Ennis in front of Aguirre's trailer....well I...... (t) (t) (t) (t) I don't know, I believe I thought: OMG, &*& Who is that guy? What is he doing?!!! %&) How can he be so bold? Why is he looking like that? What is he thinking about? What does he want?.
Well I thought a lot of things 'cause that look is the most shocking and mysterious BBM's look. In fact there are many brokies talking about that in this forum, trying to find out what that look means. For me that look was an incredible experience and a nice discovery. From that moment I knew what BBM was going to do in my heart and my soul;and from the moment I watched that Jack's look I've not been able to forget him!!! <^( <^(
I like 3 Enni's looks above all the rest. 1- When Jack's father said that Jack usually talked about Ennis. Ooooohhhh, what beautiful expression in Ennis' look: He was almost happy, proud, in love, surprised, I don't know...but his eyes were so nice and so full of love in that scene!!
2-When he was looking through the window y after to the ground in the trailer's scene with Alma Jr. Omg, his look was so sad, so painful, without hope, lost, broken.....without doubt he was thinking about Jack :\'( :\'(
3- The Ennis' look in the Jack I swear scene. His look, his eyes were the most huge and deep sign of love that I've ever seen in my whole life: As Jack's look in the DE scene, Ennis' look was pure devotion!!! :\'( :\'(
A big kiss brokies!!! :^^)
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I love the look of both of them in the "waterwalkinjesus scene. They are sitting bfore the fire sharing whiskey. Jack's face, and body language spoke volumes when Ennis all but admitted he was a virgin.
Then there's the determined look in Jack's eyes in FNIT as he stuggles to show Ennis that he knows what Ennis knows... That Ennis wants him as much as he wants Ennis.
Then the complete honest and understanding look he gives Ennis in SNIT ? Oh be still my heart!! Totally <^( <^( <^( there are many looks that I love from both of them in both periods of their lives young and older. Can't pick just one. :)
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Well brokies, I'm not asking in this topic which your favorite Ennis and Jack's look (glance) is. I want to know which physical appearance is the most nice for your: younger Ennis and Jack or older Ennis and Jack. I said I prefer older. <^(
But, well, it's ok, if you want to talk about looks, here I go friends!!! :clap:
I must admit that I somehow prefer the younger versions -- specifically their appearances on BBM in 63. I guess it's because I find them as of them so full of vigor and hope...
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My absolute favorite looks are both of their faces when they have finshed the reunion kisses and Ennis is trying to break away to go upstairs to get his things so they can go to the motel. He wants to go, but he just can't leave Jack right away. He hesitates, rubs his face against Jack's --- WOW! That's the look. Jack looks beat, whipped. The kiss took everything out of him. He is shaking and weak, ready to collapse. The looks they share in this scene are my all-time favorite, period!
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My absolute favorite looks are both of their faces when they have finshed the reunion kisses and Ennis is trying to break away to go upstairs to get his things so they can go to the motel. He wants to go, but he just can't leave Jack right away. He hesitates, rubs his face against Jack's --- WOW! That's the look. Jack looks beat, whipped. The kiss took everything out of him. He is shaking and weak, ready to collapse. The looks they share in this scene are my all-time favorite, period!
Yeah!!! That look is awesome, so deep and so beautiful!!! <^( You really know how to describe it!!! ^f^
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Some of the glances that come to my mind are,of course,the one from Jack in the SNIT, so full of love and desire,tender and hot at the same time <^( as telling Ennis:"Don´t be afraid of what you´re feeling;I know you want me as much as I want you." The other Jack´s look after the DE,so peaceful, so tender,so in love that is for me a shock comparing it with the next of a older Jack,dissapointed,sad,at the point of quitting that man who had meant so much in his life...And the other is precisely all the reunion scene,from Ennis´face when he sees Jack is arriving to the shy smiles and looks of both of them trying to "put a brave face" before Alma.Really,I like much more when they´re young,not for a beauty question,but because they had all the strenght,the passion and the hope that life´s circumstances-and perhaps themselves-made them lose.
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Some of the glances that come to my mind are,of course,the one from Jack in the SNIT, so full of love and desire,tender and hot at the same time <^( as telling Ennis:"Don´t be afraid of what you´re feeling;I know you want me as much as I want you." The other Jack´s look after the DE,so peaceful, so tender,so in love that is for me a shock comparing it with the next of a older Jack,dissapointed,sad,at the point of quitting that man who had meant so much in his life...And the other is precisely all the reunion scene,from Ennis´face when he sees Jack is arriving to the shy smiles and looks of both of them trying to "put a brave face" before Alma.Really,I like much more when they´re young,not for a beauty question,but because they had all the strenght,the passion and the hope that life´s circumstances-and perhaps themselves-made them lose.
Oooohhhh, you really make me feel sad........ :\'( I'm crying now........ :\'( :\'( :\'(
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Oooohhhh, you really make me feel sad........ :\'( I'm crying now........ :\'( :\'( :\'(
It wasn´t my intention,Tammy ~)but,isn´t it what we feel when we´re thinking about what could have been and it wasn´t between them?.
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It wasn´t my intention,Tammy ~)but,isn´t it what we feel when we´re thinking about what could have been and it wasn´t between them?.
Yes. Very much so.
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It is sad when we think of what could have been,for sure.
The scene where Ennis arrives late for a meeting while Jack is throwing corn or potatos into a pot and we hear Jack say " your late". Ennis says " look what I brought" Was he referring to the horses, because I noticed during these meetings Ennis always brought the horses, one for himself and one for Jack. In all the 20 years of meeting Ennis maintained only two horses. Anyway the look on Jack's face when he sees Ennis arrive is priceless. It's pure love. There are several scenes when both have the chance to see one or the other riding away on a horse
! 1.. The "no more beans" scene-- Ennis watching Jack.
2.. When they traded jobs--Jack watches Ennis.
3. The DE scene. -- Jack watching Ennis.
4. The morning after FNIT. Jack watching Ennis.
They always imo watch each other as if the other one is the total sh-t. This is slang in America for being everything good and /or that they thought each looked good.. except no. 4 check out the " damn, he looks good on a horse" look in their eyes. " must be all that time a horseback, makes it so good". ( I had to throw that in, ) ;)Yes I'm totally wharped! ;) Just a thought. ;)
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It is sad when we think of what could have been,for sure.
The scene where Ennis arrives late for a meeting while Jack is throwing corn or potatos into a pot and we hear Jack say " your late". Ennis says " look what I brought" Was he referring to the horses, because I noticed during these meetings Ennis always brought the horses, one for himself and one for Jack. In all the 20 years of meeting Ennis maintained only two horses. Anyway the look on Jack's face when he sees Ennis arrive is priceless. It's pure love. There are several scenes when both have the chance to see one or the other riding away on a horse
! 1.. The "no more beans" scene-- Ennis watching Jack.
2.. When they traded jobs--Jack watches Ennis.
3. The DE scene. -- Jack watching Ennis.
4. The morning after FNIT. Jack watching Ennis.
They always imo watch each other as if the other one is the total sh-t. This is slang in America for being everything good and /or that they thought each looked good.. except no. 4 check out the " damn, he looks good on a horse" look in their eyes. " must be all that time a horseback, makes it so good". ( I had to throw that in, ) ;)Yes I'm totally wharped! ;) Just a thought. ;)
When ennis said to jack on their :f) trip look what i brought he was refering to beans.
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Then he said to jack i going to cook them up like i used to.
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It is sad when we think of what could have been,for sure.
The scene where Ennis arrives late for a meeting while Jack is throwing corn or potatos into a pot and we hear Jack say " your late". Ennis says " look what I brought" Was he referring to the horses, because I noticed during these meetings Ennis always brought the horses, one for himself and one for Jack. In all the 20 years of meeting Ennis maintained only two horses. Anyway the look on Jack's face when he sees Ennis arrive is priceless. It's pure love. There are several scenes when both have the chance to see one or the other riding away on a horse
! 1.. The "no more beans" scene-- Ennis watching Jack.
2.. When they traded jobs--Jack watches Ennis.
3. The DE scene. -- Jack watching Ennis.
4. The morning after FNIT. Jack watching Ennis.
They always imo watch each other as if the other one is the total sh-t. This is slang in America for being everything good and /or that they thought each looked good.. except no. 4 check out the " damn, he looks good on a horse" look in their eyes. " must be all that time a horseback, makes it so good". ( I had to throw that in, ) ;)Yes I'm totally wharped! ;) Just a thought. ;)
aintfoolin, in the screenplay, Ennis was actually referring to beans -- he brought with him some beans. :)
But I love the scenes where one of them rides of on a horse. And yes, some of them are very beautifully done, IMO. :)
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Thanks LF and tpe, I never knew this. Beans? LOL! Ol' Ennis is full of wonderful suprises huh? ;D
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Thanks LF and tpe, I never knew this. Beans? LOL! Ol' Ennis is full of wonderful suprises huh? ;D
This is the Ennis I want to remember. It was during these lighthearted moments with Jack that I feel that he was happiest, whatever his looks or demeanor may have been. :)
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This is the Ennis I want to remember. It was during these lighthearted moments with Jack that I feel that he was happiest, whatever his looks or demeanor may have been. :)
Me too.I like remembering him when he feels more "human", to see it in some way,with more tenderness or showing more happines.Maybe because it isn´t very usual to see him so...
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I have many shots of Heath and of Jake that I use as desktops, but my favorite in Ennis when he is holding the coffee cup, lookiing over his shoulder at Jack falling down drunk. They are both so happy there. Jack's acting nutsy and Ennis is enjoying it. Ennis couldn't act crazy like that himself -- just not his personality, but Jack could be a clown and Ennis sure knew how to appreciate him.
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lamusica,
The desktop of Ennis holding the cup is my desktop too. So every time I turn on my computer I see this beautiful smile. Jack was no doubt, the life of Ennis's party. This scene speaks to it.
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I have many shots of Heath and of Jake that I use as desktops, but my favorite in Ennis when he is holding the coffee cup, lookiing over his shoulder at Jack falling down drunk. They are both so happy there. Jack's acting nutsy and Ennis is enjoying it. Ennis couldn't act crazy like that himself -- just not his personality, but Jack could be a clown and Ennis sure knew how to appreciate him.
Yes, the scene was wonderfully done.
It's funny, looking back during the first months of BBM, that some members were not so sure what to make of Jack's acting in this scene. If I remember correctly, some didn't even like this scene...
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I don´t know why they didn´t like it.For me it´s an important scene as it´s the first time both of them laugh together,in a sequence that give enough clues to guess what will happen after. ^-^ ;D.They´ve been fairly smitten up to that moment and for me is an excuse for Jack for both dissimulating the sensations he was feeling by making jokes and also showing his happinness for being with Ennis in good company.Is this is not nice,WHAT ELSE CAN BE?.
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I don´t know why they didn´t like it.For me it´s an important scene as it´s the first time both of them laugh together,in a sequence that give enough clues to guess what will happen after. ^-^ ;D.They´ve been fairly smitten up to that moment and for me is an excuse for Jack for both dissimulating the sensations he was feeling making jokes and also showing his happinness for being with Ennis in good company.Is this is not nice,WHAT ELSE CAN BE'.
I feel the same way, but I must admit that the first time I watched it, there was something about it that made me think that there was something "peculiar". I don't know -- it's so hard to express here. But I have grown to love it very much: as a member had said, it was generously acted.
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Well, I must say that a friend of mine who I went to see BBM the second time with,say when she saw Jack´s action ,with some disregard:-"He´s drunken...".There´s Jack´s clown side in all its splendour... :i But I´ve never seen it as something stupid,bad or that had not to be in the movie,even peculiar, as you say.For me, it has its meaning and its reason to be in that concrete part of the movie,nothing else...
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There are two times in the movie when I feel Jack is deliberately showing off for Ennis. One is when he starts singing Water Walking Jesus; the other is this scene when he is singing, drinking and falling down drunk. There is the slightest hesitation before he starts these actions that tells me he is doing them with forethought for the effect they will have on Ennis. He wants Ennis to have fun -- to see him act crazy -- and, maybe, to begin thinking of him in a more physical, sexual way. I like both of these scenes because they give us a glimpse into Jack's state of mind, in my opinion.
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Well this whole scene stemmed from Ennis telling Jack that his father's opinion was that rodeo cowboys were all "f-ckups". Jack replies " The hell they are" , looking at Ennis in a way that says * you think so too* because of Jack's lack of cooking skills ,shooting skills and just being plain goofy at times by Ennis's standards. . . I think Ennis was just being playful with Jack to get a rise out of him. This is evidenced by Ennis peering over his cup and says "well"?. Jack takes an * I'll show you * attitude and goes into the rodeo dance. Notice that while Jack does this, in his *act* he stays ON the bull ;) ;), showing Ennis that he IS good at something....until he falls, proving Ennis's point. ;D but endearing himself to Ennis even more. A really sweet scene.
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I think the whole scene beguins when Ennis told his story to Jack,in such a deep and reliable way-surely as he has never done with someone else before...-that impels him to say that he was speaking more than in two weeks...In this moment both of them know somehow that, as they´re opening to each other in a friendly way,something inside them is also opening to a deeper feeling-more aware in Jack´s case,more confused with another feelings in Ennis´s-; the long and smitten glance they give each other few after is a proof of this.I think both of them begin a play to be as similar to the other as they´re able to,to a complement of what they´re lacking:Ennis tries to be as talkative as Jack and makes a kind of "provocation" by telling this about rodeo cowboys.And Jack tries to be as responsible as Ennis,at the same time he makes him laugh.They´re complementarily differents and differently complementaries.
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There are two times in the movie when I feel Jack is deliberately showing off for Ennis. One is when he starts singing Water Walking Jesus; the other is this scene when he is singing, drinking and falling down drunk. There is the slightest hesitation before he starts these actions that tells me he is doing them with forethought for the effect they will have on Ennis. He wants Ennis to have fun -- to see him act crazy -- and, maybe, to begin thinking of him in a more physical, sexual way. I like both of these scenes because they give us a glimpse into Jack's state of mind, in my opinion.
I also think that taking the mare with the low startle point was also a kind of boasting, no? There a number of scenes where we see Ennis looking at Jack with some doubt,either when he rides away wisth some trouble, or is trying to keep his seat on the horse. I love those images. They are so endearing!
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I also think that taking the mare with the low startle point was also a kind of boasting, no? There a number of scenes where we see Ennis looking at Jack with some doubt,either when he rides away wisth some trouble, or is trying to keep his seat on the horse. I love those images. They are so endearing!
Yes, they are endearing. They show his youth and immaturity. He needs to be accepted by Ennis; he needs to be laughed at, the center of attention. Just like a little boy.
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Again, these are wonderful choices. I do love both of them very much -- they are looks that are not so simple, no? They are looks that have depth...
Yes looks that have great depth looking through the windows of their soul.
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i totally agree with all your posts about the looks. I loved them, so meaningful and honest, I have to say the whiskey did'nt hurt either as a *loosninupper* for the both. Jack's " I 've created a monster" look he gave Ennis as Ennis rambled on about his family background to me is priceless, though I'd give anything to know what Jack was thinking when Ennis got finished stating " that's more than I've spoke in a year" . Ennis's " Whut"? got me the first time I heard it. Something was happening betwwen them that said they had a situation . A sweet one. My opoinion.
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Yes, they are endearing. They show his youth and immaturity. He needs to be accepted by Ennis; he needs to be laughed at, the center of attention. Just like a little boy.
It is the little boy in Jack that we love best, perhaps...
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Yes looks that have great depth looking through the windows of their soul.
Such looks are the ones that are remembered. :)
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I don´t know why,but often I think of Ennis and Jack when young,in the beguinning of their relationship,when they´re only friends and they´re opening to each other little by little,when they gave each other the tenderness and confidence they needed from their childhood.I suppose because everything was allright between them and their tragedy hadn´t began.
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I don´t know why,but often I think of Ennis and Jack when young,in the beguinning of their relationship,when they´re only friends and they´re opening to each other little by little,when they gave each other the tenderness and confidence they needed from their childhood.I suppose because everything was allright between them and their tragedy hadn´t began.
Yeah, that's my favorite part of the movie, too. It's the part when each take on a bit of the other - Ennis becoming more open and confident, willing to stand up for what he and Jack needs, instead of being bullied by Aguierre - Jack becoming a better cowboy, learning from Ennis what his father never taught him. And they both become more protective of each other.
The later parts as they grow older, Ennis becomes too absorbed in his own troubles with Elma, with money that during their ride across the river, he looked miserable instead of the happy excited person when they first met. Jack was becoming frustrated with the increasingly infrequent rendez-vous, thinking it was Ennis losing interest, not understanding the troubles Ennis was going through. By the river, when Ennis asked Jack if things with Laureen were normal, Jack had no idea what Ennis was feeling, in spite of the divorce. In a way, Jack was beginning to drift away himself, having found an outlet in Mexico.
Yeah, when I think of Ennis and Jack, it is in the summer of '63 or four years later, when they were in the motel, or by the river, Ennis looking up into heaven. Pure and untroubled.
But when I think of Ennis by himself, it is always the last few scenes. Those scenes of Ennis by himself are my favorite, to see his transformation from "I can't stand this any more Jack" to "Jack I swear!"
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Yeah,I think one of the questions that makes so nice the first times of their relationship is seeing that each one of them knows how to increase qualities that are lacking in the other:Ennis learns to be more open and talkative,and even a little rebel-when he disobeys Aguirre´s rules to please Jack,f.e.-,while this one learns to be more responsible in his duties.At the same time,they care and look for the other somehow,as they never be since their childhood by their mothers and that they really need.I said once that they´re complementarily differents and differently complementaries...
But also I agree with you in that last scenes with Ennis alone are beautiful in their tragedy because they´re a life´s revelation, a real change in his way of seeing life...Although his transformation,for me,beguins in the conversation with Cassie,that allows him to realize things he had been blind about before it.
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I think it truly hurt Ennis when Cassie cried and walked out. He knew he had really hurt her without really realizing it, but now he had to face the fact that he had been cruel to her. He never felt that way about Alma. I don't think he ever thought he was to blame for the divorce or for any of the strife in their marriage. What do you think?
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Yeah,I think one of the questions that makes so nice the first times of their relationship is seeing that each one of them knows how to increase qualities that are lacking in the other:Ennis learns to be more open and talkative,and even a little rebel-when he disobeys Aguirre´s rules to please Jack,f.e.-,while this one learns to be more responsible in his duties.At the same time,they care and look for the other somehow,as they never be since their childhood by their mothers and that they really need.I said once that they´re complementarily differents and differently complementaries...
But also I agree with you in that last scenes with Ennis alone are beautiful in their tragedy because they´re a life´s revelation, a real change in his way of seeing life...Although his transformation,for me,beguins in the conversation with Cassie,that allows him to realize things he had been blind about before it.
Yes, I think you are so right, and that in this case, "You complete me" is absolutely right on. I can't imagine Jack packing all by himself, at the end of the summer, if it hadn't been Ennis' influence earlier on. "You got to stick it out, Jack" with getting the count right for Aguirre, if we want to work again. I think it is also why Jack tried not to make waves and allowed to be bullied more than before. He wanted the chance to work with Ennis again. Ironically, Aguirre fired them, and kicked him out the next summer.
Yes, I agree with you that Ennis was transformed, hearing Cassie said tearfully, girls don't fall in love with fun...and running out the door. The look on Heath's face is priceless. From that moment on, I feel that Ennis began to stand taller, and walk with more bounce. He felt like a great weight had been lifted off his shoulder.
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I think I prefer the young look of them...I mean I am crazy for jack..I find alot of sweetness in his look....he has staring eyes that can look right through the real Ennis....he is filled with passion and warmth..a rear combination :)......the 1st look he gave to ennis and then looked the other side was so charming..
I like the introverted look of the young Ennis..the shy and caotious look he gave to jack when he 1st saw him and then looked away...the 1st scene of the film with these 2 is briiliant and just perfect....
I always have the young picture of theirs in my eyes.....when they 1st met, the times they spoke on Brokeback mountain initially when they got to know each other, the FNIT and SNIT...
That was the time they were completely themselves...they felt as if their world is brokeback mountain and they r 1 soul in 2 bodies united in the midst of nature and silence <^(
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Great post Smartestsonia! I think the pics that come to my mind are the Dozey Embrace and SNIT. So loving and tender...makes me warm all over! <^(
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awwww...Thanks Atalley ^f^
I love those scenes u have mentioned...Its pure love that they share...they found and felt true love...their relationship blossomed on Brokeback mountain during their young life...In the end of the film when Ennis hugs Jack's shirt and smells it to feel Jack he remembers Brokeback mountain and everything that happened there..this included those early memories as to how they became friends and then lovers..those memories were a great comfort to his wounded heart..he lived with those memories for the rest of his life...
To me the enire film is precious and dear..The early stage of their relationship is so beautiful and how they realized that they love each....it could not be denied and it was a part of them...infact became a part of them forever <^(
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I think I prefer the young look of them...I mean I am crazy for jack..I find alot of sweetness in his look....he has staring eyes that can look right through the real Ennis....he is filled with passion and warmth..a rear combination :)......the 1st look he gave to ennis and then looked the other side was so charming..
I like the introverted look of the young Ennis..the shy and caotious look he gave to jack when he 1st saw him and then looked away...the 1st scene of the film with these 2 is briiliant and just perfect....
I always have the young picture of theirs in my eyes.....when they 1st met, the times they spoke on Brokeback mountain initially when they got to know each other, the FNIT and SNIT...
That was the time they were completely themselves...they felt as if their world is brokeback mountain and they r 1 soul in 2 bodies united in the midst of nature and silence <^(
awwww...Thanks Atalley ^f^
I love those scenes u have mentioned...Its pure love that they share...they found and felt true love...their relationship blossomed on Brokeback mountain during their young life...In the end of the film when Ennis hugs Jack's shirt and smells it to feel Jack he remembers Brokeback mountain and everything that happened there..this included those early memories as to how they became friends and then lovers..those memories were a great comfort to his wounded heart..he lived with those memories for the rest of his life...
To me the enire film is precious and dear..The early stage of their relationship is so beautiful and how they realized that they love each....it could not be denied and it was a part of them...infact became a part of them forever <^(
Gorgeous posts, Cleo. I totally agree with you; you just said so beautifully what I've always thought. I so love that first scene (the opening scene) and their time in BBM. <^( <^( And I get sad every time I see it because I know what happens next, all the pain, the hurt and sadness... :\'( :\'(
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Gorgeous posts, Cleo. I totally agree with you; you just said so beautifully what I've always thought. I so love that first scene (the opening scene) and their time in BBM. <^( <^( And I get sad every time I see it because I know what happens next, all the pain, the hurt and sadness... :\'( :\'(
Thanks Tammy ^f^...This picture I have in my mind is very dear to me....The first look they gave to each other has frozen in my mind...its like the first look of something u feel u want and resist..very conflicting and avoiding look as well as very obvious that they wanted to know each other more.....The look they gave each other when Ennis talks about his past and Jack says thats the most he heard from Ennis in 2 weeks is very sweet and charming..
Its a natural bond that they shared which grew so beautifully...it was so meant to be...The formation of their relationship made them aware of what they need in life...they knew they needed each other..and as u say we know what will happen next and that pains us...how Ennis will resist his feelings and Jack trying to persude Ennis to live together and how its goes on for years...after all the pain they go through what really holds them on and binds them inspite of all the restrictions and the fears is the love they shared that grew in Brokeback mountain..thats why the young picture is treasured and cherished by me...a picture of eternal, pure, true and unbreakable love <^(
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I don´t know why,but often I think of Ennis and Jack when young,in the beguinning of their relationship,when they´re only friends and they´re opening to each other little by little,when they gave each other the tenderness and confidence they needed from their childhood.I suppose because everything was allright between them and their tragedy hadn´t began.
Thanks MPJ. I agree that there is something pristine and palin beautiful in the youthful Ennis and Jack. It is a sense of discovery and awakening, perhaps?
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I think it truly hurt Ennis when Cassie cried and walked out. He knew he had really hurt her without really realizing it, but now he had to face the fact that he had been cruel to her. He never felt that way about Alma. I don't think he ever thought he was to blame for the divorce or for any of the strife in their marriage. What do you think?
It reminded me of the way Alma Jr. straight-talked Cassie, only the scene between Ennis and Cassie was truly defining. Like you, I think Ennis realized how crule he was to Cassie (and by reflection, to Jack) only in thr end. It is interesting how Cassie became a catalyst to Ennis's gradual but deepening realization of his love for Jack.
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Thanks MPJ. I agree that there is something pristine and palin beautiful in the youthful Ennis and Jack. It is a sense of discovery and awakening, perhaps?
Thanks for having "resuscitated" a rather old post of mine,Thomas¡.Well,not many days ago,Smartestsonia ha said it much better than me;that Ennis and Jack younger images bring to us a sense of innocence,purity and,yes,why not? the sense of discovery and awakening you have mentioned.It's that time when both of them were discovering and awakening together to a relationship that they builded together too; and all the sensations and feelings,the freedom to live them,never would be the same,even after their reunion after four years,than the ones the had on the mountain.If you look at it well,it's almost as two different stories,two different movies before and after BBM for the two of them...
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I didn't even notice that they were old posts! :)
Smartestsonia's insight resonates with me also. There is an incomparable sense of purity and freshness in the beginning scenes -- and not just because of the wonderful scenery and the beauty of BBM. The natural beauty is very much matched by the beauty of the younger Jack and Ennis -- and the beauty surrounding them is thus amplified. In more ways than one, the starting scenes up on BBM signify a sort of "dawn" of life. It would not be too strong to call it a "birth". I think this image of a youthful Ennis and Jack suspatins us -- even long after the freshness and beauty had started to fray in the later years...
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Thanks MPJ and Thomas ^f^
The pure love, tender affection and the connection that had when they first met and became friends was so intact in their minds and hearts that it remained as fresh as forever..That is something what they share which is very sacred to them and nothing and no one can take that away from them …
Falling in love and getting to know someone at a deeper level means lot to everyone…it was very precious to them as the way they saw each other...Ennis was sweet and reserved and jack was warm, empathetic and caring…Those images obviously meant a lot to them and they held those images and couldn’t let go of it and that’s why they knew that it was for real…Even when they grew older these younger images were there in their minds and hearts as they were the foundation of their relationship and will be inseparable from them.
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Thanks MPJ and Thomas ^f^
The pure love, tender affection and the connection that had when they first met and became friends was so intact in their minds and hearts that it remained as fresh as forever..That is something what they share which is very sacred to them and nothing and no one can take that away from them …
Falling in love and getting to know someone at a deeper level means lot to everyone…it was very precious to them as the way they saw each other...Ennis was sweet and reserved and jack was warm, empathetic and caring…Those images obviously meant a lot to them and they held those images and couldn’t let go of it and that’s why they knew that it was for real…Even when they grew older these younger images were there in their minds and hearts as they were the foundation of their relationship and will be inseparable from them.
I agree, smartestsonia. I think all of us would agree that the "attraction of opposites" plays a role in all this, but as you say here, their perception of the other's "otherness" goes at a much deeper level and meaning. Specifically, the view that the other was the element the completed himself, and not just complemented himself.
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WOW tammy, nice topic here :)
i love them young, because every time, i can't help but think that they have a chance to make the movie turns out differently. youth = hope, i guess.
i love them older, not that they are sexier, but they are, as you say, "richer". but the end kills me, so it's more painful than sexy to see them at that age. (movie speaking of course, in my mind, you know well enough they got the chance to work past all the sorrow and the hurt and the heartbreak and ... well, find hope again :))
what i mean i guess is that i can't choose. and if i had to choose, i guess my answer will change with my age. you would have ask me 10 years ago, i would have told you them at 19. ask me in 10 years and i probably will tell you them at 39. but now, well, i'll go for them around 29, reunion after but still the good happy years, before that damn november day in 1975 :(
vanessa
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what i mean i guess is that i can't choose. and if i had to choose, i guess my answer will change with my age. you would have ask me 10 years ago, i would have told you them at 19. ask me in 10 years and i probably will tell you them at 39. but now, well, i'll go for them around 29, reunion after but still the good happy years, before that damn november day in 1975 :(
vanessa
I couldn't agree more. I love all your replies. <^( <^( <^( I'm so happy you're here.
I think I just love them from 19 to 41 (Ennis at the end of the film); I love them at all ages and I love them in every way and in every scene.
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I go back and forth between the younger and older Ennis and Jack. But I know that up there at the apex is the image of the young Ennis and Jack in the Dozy Embrace. The nadir is the older Ennis and Jack of the final confrontation. In the former, we see Ennis embracing Jack. In the latter, we see Jack embracing Ennis.
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I go back and forth between the younger and older Ennis and Jack. But I know that up there at the apex is the image of the young Ennis and Jack in the Dozy Embrace. The nadir is the older Ennis and Jack of the final confrontation. In the former, we see Ennis embracing Jack. In the latter, we see Jack embracing Ennis.
That's beautiful, Thomas, and I agree with you all the way. I mean, I'm just in love with the DE, my favorite young Ennis and Jack, and, like I said before in this thread, when I think about older Ennis and Jack I always see in my mind the confrontation scene.
Love your last line, friend. ^f^
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That's beautiful, Thomas, and I agree with you all the way. I mean, I'm just in love with the DE, my favorite young Ennis and Jack, and, like I said before in this thread, when I think about older Ennis and Jack I always see in my mind the confrontation scene.
Love your last line, friend. ^f^
The film has many beautiful and moving mirror images and bookends, don't you agree. Truthfully, the DE is for me the single most memorable image of Ennis and Jack...
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The film has many beautiful and moving mirror images and bookends, don't you agree. Truthfully, the DE is for me the single most memorable image of Ennis and Jack...
AMEN!! <^( <^(
And you know, for Jack, that's the best memory about their love, and something inside of me tells me that Ennis loved that moment too, that's special time and place when he was able to hold Jack, to hug him and share with him the adorable memory of his mom. Just...MOVING!!
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I totally agree about the DE...such a special time in their relationship. <^(
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The film has many beautiful and moving mirror images and bookends, don't you agree. Truthfully, the DE is for me the single most memorable image of Ennis and Jack...
I agree too. :c) For me,it's like the confirmation that their love went far beyong a mere sexual relationship;that it was LOVE,with capital letters.And also for Ennis,because in it he wanted to share with Jack a loving and caring memory of his childhood;nursing,to say it in some way,his lover,his love's object,as he was nursed by his mother when he was also her love's object.Beautiful scene where,moreover,they always have seemed to me more gorgeous that in any other... <^(
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I go back and forth between the younger and older Ennis and Jack. But I know that up there at the apex is the image of the young Ennis and Jack in the Dozy Embrace. The nadir is the older Ennis and Jack of the final confrontation. In the former, we see Ennis embracing Jack. In the latter, we see Jack embracing Ennis.
I agree too. :c) For me,it's like the confirmation that their love went far beyong a mere sexual relationship;that it was LOVE,with capital letters.And also for Ennis,because in it he wanted to share with Jack a loving and caring memory of his childhood;nursing,to say it in some way,his lover,his love's object,as he was nursed by his mother when he was also her love's object.Beautiful scene where,moreover,they always have seemed to me more gorgeous that in any other... <^(
yep thomas, i love that too a lot in bbm, how things are often mirrored
i prefer them in the DE than by the lake, the first "hug" is far more happy than the second (which is beautiful too but just too #$%!$^!^!@%$^$ sad, desperate and "this is the end" kinda thing)
the DE ... happy sigh sigh sigh .... who doesn't fall for the DE, he !!! :)
lovely moving words, privatejack :)
thanks
vanessa
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yep thomas, i love that too a lot in bbm, how things are often mirrored
i prefer them in the DE than by the lake, the first "hug" is far more happy than the second (which is beautiful too but just too #$%!$^!^!@%$^$ sad, desperate and "this is the end" kinda thing)
the DE ... happy sigh sigh sigh .... who doesn't fall for the DE, he !!! :)
lovely moving words, privatejack :)
thanks
vanessa
You're welcome,Vanessa¡ :^^) Yes,I also prefer the DE than the one in the lake.Because this last one is the sign of a easier love after so many years,it's true; but,as you say,it's also a love without hope. :\'(
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AMEN!! <^( <^(
And you know, for Jack, that's the best memory about their love, and something inside of me tells me that Ennis loved that moment too, that's special time and place when he was able to hold Jack, to hug him and share with him the adorable memory of his mom. Just...MOVING!!
I had always wondered whether Ennis hugging the shirts in Jack's closet is supposed to indicate a kind of remembrance of the DE...
Thanks Tammy. :)
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I agree too. :c) For me,it's like the confirmation that their love went far beyong a mere sexual relationship;that it was LOVE,with capital letters.And also for Ennis,because in it he wanted to share with Jack a loving and caring memory of his childhood;nursing,to say it in some way,his lover,his love's object,as he was nursed by his mother when he was also her love's object.Beautiful scene where,moreover,they always have seemed to me more gorgeous that in any other... <^(
And I think what made it all the more beautiful and memorable for Jack was the knowledge that Ennis did this almost subconsicously/spontaneously. If we ever want to catch a true and unguarded glimpse of Ennis's love for Jack, it is in the DE. It was imperfect, but it was all that Ennis had.
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yep thomas, i love that too a lot in bbm, how things are often mirrored
i prefer them in the DE than by the lake, the first "hug" is far more happy than the second (which is beautiful too but just too #$%!$^!^!@%$^$ sad, desperate and "this is the end" kinda thing)
the DE ... happy sigh sigh sigh .... who doesn't fall for the DE, he !!! :)
lovely moving words, privatejack :)
thanks
vanessa
The one by the lake is made even more moving by its juxtaposition with the DE. It is as if the director wanted us to juxtapose these two images -- peace and pain -- as the one we should take away from this -- the last scene we see Ennis and Jack together.
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And I think what made it all the more beautiful and memorable for Jack was the knowledge that Ennis did this almost subconsicously/spontaneously. If we ever want to catch a true and unguarded glimpse of Ennis's love for Jack, it is in the DE. It was imperfect, but it was all that Ennis had.
thomas, you broke my heart here !!!!
The one by the lake is made even more moving by its juxtaposition with the DE. It is as if the director wanted us to juxtapose these two images -- peace and pain -- as the one we should take away from this -- the last scene we see Ennis and Jack together.
yep :(
ang is a genius, for sure. and jake is a hell of an actor, he ...
jack's eyes as he watch ennis going away after the DE, and then right after jack's eyes while ennis is driving away ... kills me every time. the difference is just so painfully clear ...
vanessa
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thomas, you broke my heart here !!!!
yep :(
ang is a genius, for sure. and jake is a hell of an actor, he ...
jack's eyes as he watch ennis going away after the DE, and then right after jack's eyes while ennis is driving away ... kills me every time. the difference is just so painfully clear ...
vanessa
Yeah, baby. In the DE Jack's eyes talk about pure devotion to Ennis, dreams and deep love. Jack's eyes in the confrontation scene show that Jack finally gave up...not to Ennis, because I think had he lived he'd never quit Ennis, but his dreams, his hopes to have a life with Ennis...Jack's eyes tell us that that old sweet dreamer fighter Jack was truly dead, and from now on this tired Jack is not longer a bitter ghost of what he was, but a new man without hope, without tomorrow with Ennis, just a hollow sack of bones with a broken heart... :\'( :\'(
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Yeah, baby. In the DE Jack's eyes talk about pure devotion to Ennis, dreams and deep love. Jack's eyes in the confrontation scene show that Jack finally gave up...not to Ennis, because I think had he lived he'd never quit Ennis, but his dreams, his hopes to have a life with Ennis...Jack's eyes tell us that that old sweet dreamer fighter Jack was truly dead, and from now on this tired Jack is not longer a bitter ghost of what he was, but a new man without hope, without tomorrow with Ennis, just a hollow sack of bones with a broken heart... :\'( :\'(
tammy !!!!!
:\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'(
do i need to tell more :(
awesome heartwrenching words
vanessa
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Yeah, baby. In the DE Jack's eyes talk about pure devotion to Ennis, dreams and deep love. Jack's eyes in the confrontation scene show that Jack finally gave up...not to Ennis, because I think had he lived he'd never quit Ennis, but his dreams, his hopes to have a life with Ennis...Jack's eyes tell us that that old sweet dreamer fighter Jack was truly dead, and from now on this tired Jack is not longer a bitter ghost of what he was, but a new man without hope, without tomorrow with Ennis, just a hollow sack of bones with a broken heart... :\'( :\'(
my heart broke reading your post tammy :\'( :\'( :\'(...its hitting me hard...
Jack finally gave up of being with Ennis..even though he dint consciously do that but he just felt that it wont work out as it was too hard and traumatic for Ennis...God, his heart must have broken into pieces with the thought of no tomorrow with Ennis..I just get torn apart seeing him in that scene :\'( :\'( :\'(
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thomas, you broke my heart here !!!!
Sorry, Vanessa! :(
yep :(
ang is a genius, for sure. and jake is a hell of an actor, he ...
jack's eyes as he watch ennis going away after the DE, and then right after jack's eyes while ennis is driving away ... kills me every time. the difference is just so painfully clear ...
vanessa
I consider that parting shot of Jack after the final confrontation to be 1 of 2 faces that we shall remember about Jack. The other one is the one in the DE, of course. I think both of these two parting looks should be the way to remember Jack -- love and resignation. These two (for better or for worse) sum up his life.
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I consider that parting shot of Jack after the final confrontation to be 1 of 2 faces that we shall remember about Jack. The other one is the one in the DE, of course. I think both of these two parting looks should be the way to remember Jack -- love and resignation. These two (for better or for worse) sum up his life.
Yes,Thomas,you're right.But I'd add another component to sum up Jack's life: love,resignation but fight.And they're not necessarily two antagonise concepts.
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I understand what you say here, MPJ. He was a fighter. He fought for his dreams, against all odds. One cannot understand his life without this.
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Thankyou Thomas and MPJ to explain Jacks life as love, resignation but fight..Wow..that is so true….
His love for Ennis was so pure..All he wanted was him. His whole life spoke for that..Then after the final confrontation there was a resignation which was so painful and hard hitting for him….I think that is the most difficult thing that Jack did in his whole life..Seeing the love of his life going away shattered him..He was left with this broken heart and so much regret.
And finally he is a fighter as his whole life he lived with the hope of having Ennis and was ready to risk it all for him..What hurts the most is being a fighter his whole life and finally there is a resignation from his side after the last confrontation shows to what extent Jack was hurt and in pain.. He was literally crushed as all that he fought for and kept together his life just fell apart…He is left with all memories and unfulfilled dreams..
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Somehow, even after the "defeat" of the Last Confrontation, I still see, in his last look at Ennis, a hint of defiance/resistance and fire beneath the sea of resignation. I find this last look very interesting, as it really appears ot be a mixture of 2 opposing tendencies. Wonderfully done, IMO. These days, when I think of Jack, it is always this look and the look at the Dozy Embrace that comes to my mind -- opposing tendencies to the very end.
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Somehow, even after the "defeat" of the Last Confrontation, I still see, in his last look at Ennis, a hint of defiance/resistance and fire beneath the sea of resignation. I find this last look very interesting, as it really appears ot be a mixture of 2 opposing tendencies. Wonderfully done, IMO. These days, when I think of Jack, it is always this look and the look at the Dozy Embrace that comes to my mind -- opposing tendencies to the very end.
U spoke my hearts inner most feelings out. I also remember that look a lot… the 2 contradictory scenes have frozen in my mind. Firstly, the Scene of Ennis holding Jack (dozy embrace) and they share the sexless embrace and Jack has this feeling of content that Ennis held him with so much love…he literally felt mesmerized in his arms.
Then there is a scene of resignation by Jack but at the same time somewhere unconsciously or consciously there is a hope also. I just see that..I feel that for a moment he can’t believe what just happened..I mean how the fight took place and ended…..When he sees Ennis going away in the Car somewhere there is a hope that he would turn the car and come back but Ennis dint..and jack is left so hurt and burdened with pain….that look of Jack makes my heart cry with pain...
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Thanks smartestsonia.
Jack's look certainly shoed a lot of hurt. But I would like to think that the DE also hinted that the love was still intact, and that it showed even in that sad final look.
There is also one other look that I will never forget from this, the Last Confrontation. It's when Ennis breaks down, and Jack lifts his hands slightly and approaches Ennis to embrace him. In Ennis's face, we see all suffering, and I think in Jack's we see all compassion.
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Thanks smartestsonia.
Jack's look certainly shoed a lot of hurt. But I would like to think that the DE also hinted that the love was still intact, and that it showed even in that sad final look.
There is also one other look that I will never forget from this, the Last Confrontation. It's when Ennis breaks down, and Jack lifts his hands slightly and approaches Ennis to embrace him. In Ennis's face, we see all suffering, and I think in Jack's we see all compassion.
The love was and will always remain intact …..it will never fade away.... no fight, pain, hurt , regret or even death couldn’t fade that away. I think that’s what hurts the most that they just loved each other so much that it became too painful to handle…
The part of last confrontation scene what touches me the most is when Ennis tells Jack that he is nobody and nowhere and when Jack hears that he feels the pain that Ennis is in…Inspite of Jack himself hurting so much and the regrets and all, when Jack sees Ennis breaking down he forgets his own wounds for a moment and sees the miseries of Ennis and just goes to hold him giving him non verbal gestures that he is still there and still loves him the same…That embrace that Jack gives Ennis is sooooooo powerful…that inspite of all the love has not changed...
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Yes, for Jack in the Last Confrontation, it was a double hurt. It was both a hurt for a dying or dead dream and hurt born out of compassion for Ennis. The latter didn't really hit him until Ennis finally drops the mask of stoicism. By bringing up the possibility of dropping Ennis, Jack exposes not only his own frustration but Ennis's also. Ennis always tried to hide it, but just couldn'e when faced by Jack's pain. Both fed on each other's pain in that scene -- as much as both fed each other's anger as the scene progressed. What I see in my mind is that the anger and the hurt are one and the same, even as their love for each other is at the root of both this hurt and anger.
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Yes, for Jack in the Last Confrontation, it was a double hurt. It was both a hurt for a dying or dead dream and hurt born out of compassion for Ennis. The latter didn't really hit him until Ennis finally drops the mask of stoicism. By bringing up the possibility of dropping Ennis, Jack exposes not only his own frustration but Ennis's also. Ennis always tried to hide it, but just couldn'e when faced by Jack's pain. Both fed on each other's pain in that scene -- as much as both fed each other's anger as the scene progressed. What I see in my mind is that the anger and the hurt are one and the same, even as their love for each other is at the root of both this hurt and anger.
This is so true about Jack..he was in the middle of both both emotions…his own regrets as well as what Ennis feels…When he sees Ennis dropping down he just couldnt take that and had to held him..the love of his life was himself in so much pain and was so helpless….Ennis’s struggle was understood by Jack but every human has his own wishes and desires too…Although he forgot it all when he saw Ennis was in so much pain as Jack could never be in peace if Ennis was hurting so much...
As u said the love is the root of all..They loved each other so much and just wanted each other..thats it..but that did not get fulfilled completely..thats where the pain and regret comes and it all summed up in the last confrontation…
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This is so true about Jack..he was in the middle of both both emotions…his own regrets as well as what Ennis feels…When he sees Ennis dropping down he just couldnt take that and had to held him..the love of his life was himself in so much pain and was so helpless….Ennis’s struggle was understood by Jack but every human has his own wishes and desires too…Although he forgot it all when he saw Ennis was in so much pain as Jack could never be in peace if Ennis was hurting so much...
As u said the love is the root of all..They loved each other so much and just wanted each other..thats it..but that did not get fulfilled completely..thats where the pain and regret comes and it all summed up in the last confrontation…
I've always been haunted by Jack's parting look. I've thought about what it really meant so many times. I have thought thatn it hints at deep conflicting emotions. Perhaps we'll never really know... But it certainly haunts me, so many hears after first watching this movie...
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I've always been haunted by Jack's parting look. I've thought about what it really meant so many times. I have thought thatn it hints at deep conflicting emotions. Perhaps we'll never really know... But it certainly haunts me, so many hears after first watching this movie...
Thomas u r not alone in this…a lot of us still get haunted by that look including myself..the effect is same whenever I watch that scene…I think that’s the gripping factor of this film. I mean I have watched so many emotional films in my life and I have cried alot of times as I am a sensitive person but the effect that BBM has on me is the same each time..I remember how much it affected me when I first saw it.,.even today my hearts gets vulnerable when I watch the final confrontation and the Jack’s parting look..
Ya, as u said the look had deep conflicting emotions…I feel the conflicting emotions r between the fact that their relation turned this way, to let go but at the same time to hold on as Ennis was a part of Jack and the emotion of the hurt that u get when u r so deeply in love..Its a mixture of all and I think that so many thoughts and feelings were going on in Jack’s mind..the thought that Ennis may never return or should Jack move on ..this thought was opposing to the fact that somewhere Jack was still holding on...I think that it was a blend of these emotions and I can literally picture that look in front of me…that’s how strong the impact is….
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The look certainly gives you a deep feeling that something is UNFINISHED. Deep-seated, conflicting emotions remain unresolved.
I had wondered sometimes, if Ennis looked back at Jack as he drove away. The movie or the story doesn't say this -- but I wonder if Ennis did look back at Jack -- perhaps through the rear-view mirror, similar to what Jack did when they parted in 63 -- and didn't realize that it was to be his last look of Jack alive.
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The look certainly gives you a deep feeling that something is UNFINISHED. Deep-seated, conflicting emotions remain unresolved.
I had wondered sometimes, if Ennis looked back at Jack as he drove away. The movie or the story doesn't say this -- but I wonder if Ennis did look back at Jack -- perhaps through the rear-view mirror, similar to what Jack did when they parted in 63 -- and didn't realize that it was to be his last look of Jack alive.
That's an interesting thought. Did Ennis look? Knowing it would be until at least November until he saw Jack again? He was hurt and mad but I'm thinking he may have, knowing it was safe since no one would know he did it. Isn't it human nature to look, especially at the one you love, no matter what has happened good or bad? If he did, that last glance could be added to the surreptitious glances. Another reason to love this movie, so many things you can imagine happening just by the way they are presented.
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The look certainly gives you a deep feeling that something is UNFINISHED. Deep-seated, conflicting emotions remain unresolved.
I had wondered sometimes, if Ennis looked back at Jack as he drove away. The movie or the story doesn't say this -- but I wonder if Ennis did look back at Jack -- perhaps through the rear-view mirror, similar to what Jackdid when they parted in 63 -- and didn't realize that it was to be his last look of Jack alive.
I think that Ennis did look for a moment…its very unconscious to do that…If we literally imagine the scene in our minds then I feel that even when Ennis was so hurt he also knew that he is leaving abruptly...Perhaps he needed to be alone or wanted to be alone. However, at the same time he knew that Jack is hurting too….so a glance must have been there from his side to check on Jack at the same time…very unconscious though according to me as a huge part of him just wanted to be by himself for the moment…
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That's an interesting thought. Did Ennis look? Knowing it would be until at least November until he saw Jack again? He was hurt and mad but I'm thinking he may have, knowing it was safe since no one would know he did it. Isn't it human nature to look, especially at the one you love, no matter what has happened good or bad? If he did, that last glance could be added to the surreptitious glances. Another reason to love this movie, so many things you can imagine happening just by the way they are presented.
Yes, I think it is in our nature to look -- especially when it is not in an obvious fashion. It is indeed in the nature of things.
And yes, it would have counted as a surreptitious glance. :)
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I think that Ennis did look for a moment…its very unconscious to do that…If we literally imagine the scene in our minds then I feel that even when Ennis was so hurt he also knew that he is leaving abruptly...Perhaps he needed to be alone or wanted to be alone. However, at the same time he knew that Jack is hurting too….so a glance must have been there from his side to check on Jack at the same time…very unconscious though according to me as a huge part of him just wanted to be by himself for the moment…
I think it is insightful to consider it as perhaps an unconscious action, given that he was certainly trying to get away from what he may thought to be his "shameful" breakdown. In fact, his action of pushing Jack back in the Last Confrontation is also an unconscious reaction that might have been propelled by shame -- shame of exposing himself this weay to Jack. After all, he prized his stoicism very much, and perhaps at that point, he only wanted to get away and not let Jack see how vulnerable he really was.
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I think it is insightful to consider it as perhaps an unconscious action, given that he was certainly trying to get away from what he may thought to be his "shameful" breakdown. In fact, his action of pushing Jack back in the Last Confrontation is also an unconscious reaction that might have been propelled by shame -- shame of exposing himself this weay to Jack. After all, he prized his stoicism very much, and perhaps at that point, he only wanted to get away and not let Jack see how vulnerable he really was.
That’s true, I think Ennis just could not take it when Jack said that he wish he could quit him. I mean Ennis felt that he lost all that he had...He lost his wife, he did not live with his kids, he was almost hand to mouth and he lived a life of fear and low self esteem...After all that, when Jack said those words Ennis just could not hide his vulnerability anymore. IMO he always felt that Jack knows him too well and can see through the real person he is which includes his strength and weaknesses...
Ennis always was not good at expressing his emotions and he always wanted to be composed.…He pushed Jack away as Jack made him show his vulnerability. It was a strong reaction of so many repressed emotions and the fact that he is losing all that ever mattered to him….
IMO Ennis later realized that it was ok to show Jack how he feels because at the end of the day only Jack would understand that…That’s why he wanted to meet up with Ennis and make sure that things can get better between them unaware that Jack is no more :\'( :\'(
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Yes, expressing his emotions -- I agree that THAT was Ennis's great weakness. To manuy of us, it is what invariably comes to mind when we think about Ennis. But would many of us agree that when push comes to shove -- when the going gets tough -- Ennis is also weak at HIDING his emotions? His stoicism was a facade, at best. I think he knew deep in his heart that he was no stoic.
What scenes come to your mind -- scenes that would show how poor he was at truly hiding his emotions? I can think of a few dramatic ones.
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Yes, expressing his emotions -- I agree that THAT was Ennis's great weakness. To manuy of us, it is what invariably comes to mind when we think about Ennis. But would many of us agree that when push comes to shove -- when the going gets tough -- Ennis is also weak at HIDING his emotions? His stoicism was a facade, at best. I think he knew deep in his heart that he was no stoic.
What scenes come to your mind -- scenes that would show how poor he was at truly hiding his emotions? I can think of a few dramatic ones.
I feel that Ennis tried too hard in his whole life to hide his emotions. However, no matter how composed one is as a person when something happens in their life which is too close to their heart or when dealing with a person that they love no matter how much they try there is a huge cry and depth even in their silence
The Scene that comes to my mind in which Ennis tried to hide his emotions but it is still visible is when Jack tells Ennis that the truth is that sometimes he misses him so much that he can hardly stand it...When he says those words and we have a look at Ennis we can see that Ennis literally feels Jacks love and wanted to reciprocate at that very moment but does not...I think he tried to hard to be quiet but it was very obvious to me that he ws feeling the same…Later at night he puts his arms around Jack comforting him and it was an excellent expression of gesture…I have to say that they way he held him was simply adorable <^(
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Yes, that scene you mentioned is a perfect example of a missed opportunity. Perhaps Ennis;s silence at that moment was telling enough -- but it probably would have done him a world of good to just try to express it, and not keep in deep within himself.
He tried too hard -- and it didn't really help to keep it all in in the long run. But that is Ennis. That is the picture of him in our minds' eye. And I think Jack also saw this and loved him in spite of it -- and, perhaps, even because of it.
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Yes, that scene you mentioned is a perfect example of a missed opportunity. Perhaps Ennis;s silence at that moment was telling enough -- but it probably would have done him a world of good to just try to express it, and not keep in deep within himself.
He tried too hard -- and it didn't really help to keep it all in in the long run. But that is Ennis. That is the picture of him in our minds' eye. And I think Jack also saw this and loved him in spite of it -- and, perhaps, even because of it.
Wow Thomas…that is so welll said ^f^..Thanks...This is truly Ennis and we love Ennis for who he is ..Although, at times we do expect him to be more open and say it all…I think the beauty of their relationship for the 1st half of the film and also in the start of 2nd half was that everything was clearly understood by them just by being together…nothing had to be explained and nothing had to be justified…There was a mutual understanding as to why the other person is so...Jack always knew that Ennis fears were deep rooted in his mind mainly due his childhood experiences…However, even though Jack understood Ennis, if Ennis would have given it a try to meet Jack a bit more often then their relationship would have been better…but Ennis dint do that...Again even though Jack understood that, sometimes one does get frustrated because one keeps longing for his loved one and does not get a glimpse of that person for so long. I think that’s why the final confrontation was so hurtful…
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Wow Thomas…that is so welll said ^f^..Thanks...This is truly Ennis and we love Ennis for who he is ..Although, at times we do expect him to be more open and say it all…I think the beauty of their relationship for the 1st half of the film and also in the start of 2nd half was that everything was clearly understood by them just by being together…nothing had to be explained and nothing had to be justified…There was a mutual understanding as to why the other person is so...Jack always knew that Ennis fears were deep rooted in his mind mainly due his childhood experiences…However, even though Jack understood Ennis, if Ennis would have given it a try to meet Jack a bit more often then their relationship would have been better…but Ennis dint do that...Again even though Jack understood that, sometimes one does get frustrated because one keeps longing for his loved one and does not get a glimpse of that person for so long. I think that’s why the final confrontation was so hurtful…
I find it amazing that so much was left unsaid -- not only in the first part, but onward until we reach the Last Confrontation. The amazing thing is that they understood each other in spite of so many things left unspoken and unresolved. We would like to think that this means something, especially after the Last Confrontation. That things went unresolved wasn't exactly a new thing. In my mind's eye, I would like to think that it meant something.
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I find it amazing that so much was left unsaid -- not only in the first part, but onward until we reach the Last Confrontation. The amazing thing is that they understood each other in spite of so many things left unspoken and unresolved. We would like to think that this means something, especially after the Last Confrontation. That things went unresolved wasn't exactly a new thing. In my mind's eye, I would like to think that it meant something.
After the final Confrontation things dint get sorted out as Jack passed away and Ennis dint get a chance to meet him…After Jack passed away Ennis could not confide in anyone…now I feel that inspite of that Ennis knew that Jack knew him well…His strengths and weaknesses and when Ennis saw that shirt I felt that his entire life flashed in front of him and even though he knew Jacks love, seeing that shirt it became the greatest and most important reality of his life. Jack is his soul mate and the one that made his life meaningful…I am sure he had the thought in his mind that he would try to tell all he felt to Jack if he had one more chance…There is no answer to that question…the only thought that can have an answer is that he knew that Jack knew him too well. probably he was thinking of forgiveness for not being there for Jack all the time…but that part s definitely unresolved…one thing that would have given Ennis some kind of solace is the fact that he knew that Jack had always understood him…Jack knew that Ennis was victim of his own fears and probably Ennis would hope that Jack forgave him for that…I think Ennis guilt must be wanting forgiveness too...
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smartestsonia, you know, the whole idea of FORGIVENESS and REDEMPTION have not really been fully discussed in these threads. Perhaps it is a good topic for a new thread. It is a very rich topic, especially in how many of us might or might not view Ennis in the last years... Thank you for bringing this up.
I do see the later Ennis as a crucible by which some form of redemption is channeled. And I also see (as you said) that he was thinking of forgiveness for not being there for Jack. I am not sure if Ennis forgave himself entirely, but I think he forgave himself enough to realize that he can be there for the other people he loved (i.e., Jr.) This is at the core of my view of redemption.
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I feel that Ennis tried too hard in his whole life to hide his emotions. However, no matter how composed one is as a person when something happens in their life which is too close to their heart or when dealing with a person that they love no matter how much they try there is a huge cry and depth even in their silence
The Scene that comes to my mind in which Ennis tried to hide his emotions but it is still visible is when Jack tells Ennis that the truth is that sometimes he misses him so much that he can hardly stand it...When he says those words and we have a look at Ennis we can see that Ennis literally feels Jacks love and wanted to reciprocate at that very moment but does not...I think he tried to hard to be quiet but it was very obvious to me that he ws feeling the same…Later at night he puts his arms around Jack comforting him and it was an excellent expression of gesture…I have to say that they way he held him was simply adorable <^(
I find it interesting that in the SS, Ennis does reciprocate but not with words: "The horses nickered in the darkness beyond the fire's circle of light. Ennis put his arm around Jack, pulled him close..." and then changes the subject by talking about his girls. I wonder why that little detail was left out of the movie - especially in light of Heath's portrayal of Ennis as physical rather than verbal. As a viewer, I would have loved that little embrace right then. I'm sure I'm not delving deeply enough into this; let me hear others' thoughts.
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Hippie, I read this part again, and noticed a lot of things that director didn't put in the movie. I agree with you. In the movie there is an obvious lack of intimate scenes including the one you mentioned.
*o) Can you please write in English the words from the same part of book: "One thing has never changed: exceptional charge of their bodies........ "
I have it only on Croatian, and I'd like to write it in English. :)
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Hippie, I read this part again, and noticed a lot of things that director didn't put in the movie. I agree with you. In the movie there is an obvious lack of intimate scenes including the one you mentioned.
*o) Can you please write in English the words from the same part of book: "One thing has never changed: exceptional charge of their bodies........ "
I have it only on Croatian, and I'd like to write it in English. :)
Sure, here it is:
"One thing never changed: the brilliant charge of their infrequent couplings was darkened by the sense of time flying, never enough time, never enough."
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:t) (:) :clap: <^( ^f^
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smartestsonia, you know, the whole idea of FORGIVENESS and REDEMPTION have not really been fully discussed in these threads. Perhaps it is a good topic for a new thread. It is a very rich topic, especially in how many of us might or might not view Ennis in the last years... Thank you for bringing this up.
I do see the later Ennis as a crucible by which some form of redemption is channeled. And I also see (as you said) that he was thinking of forgiveness for not being there for Jack. I am not sure if Ennis forgave himself entirely, but I think he forgave himself enough to realize that he can be there for the other people he loved (i.e., Jr.) This is at the core of my view of redemption.
Thanks Thomas ^f^ :)....Infact this thought was in my mind for sometime as to how Ennis will carry on his life after Jack passed away..I used to wonder now what next…When the movie is over I wonder now how will Ennis survive and what thought will be his mind regarding forgiveness and life without Jack (Jack only in his memories).The thought of Ennis life without Jack is so incomplete...How will Ennis find courage in his life to live?...Guilt can make life worse than hell and Ennis wanted to live, if not for himself then for his daughter...I think u have been on this forum for a long time and have a better idea about the topics as compared to me....Am glad that u pointed this out to me...It would great to start a topic on this.. If u wish to start the topic then u can please go ahead …. I would love to post on that…If u want me to start the topic then let me know….I would love to start the topic as I feel that we can get a better perspective about Ennis life after Jack passed away...What is important to get a better dimension to Ennis life...let me know what u think and we can work it out :)..We can also put light of his deepest emotions then like the thought of Jack forgiving him or not....I think we can get more Brokies opinion on this and it will be enriching to all of us of having a light about Ennis life after Jack and how he will live by those precious memories and always take Jack as a part of him....How he will find meaning in his life after Jack and on based on what u say will he ever be able to forgive himself???
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I find it interesting that in the SS, Ennis does reciprocate but not with words: "The horses nickered in the darkness beyond the fire's circle of light. Ennis put his arm around Jack, pulled him close..." and then changes the subject by talking about his girls. I wonder why that little detail was left out of the movie - especially in light of Heath's portrayal of Ennis as physical rather than verbal. As a viewer, I would have loved that little embrace right then. I'm sure I'm not delving deeply enough into this; let me hear others' thoughts.
I completely agree with u about the SS hippewannabe..I did notice when I read the SS about the part when Ennis put his arms around Jack and they speak about girls and all...It would have been amazing if that scene was added in the film...I think that would be perfect to show his expression of how he felt in the film...Although in the film the scene when Ennis is putting his Arms around Jack in the tent while sleeping is too precious...That too shows his non verbal expression of love beautifully…I love that scene <^(
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Thanks Thomas ^f^ :)....Infact this thought was in my mind for sometime as to how Ennis will carry on his life after Jack passed away..I used to wonder now what next…When the movie is over I wonder now how will Ennis survive and what thought will be his mind regarding forgiveness and life without Jack (Jack only in his memories).The thought of Ennis life without Jack is so incomplete...How will Ennis find courage in his life to live?...Guilt can make life worse than hell and Ennis wanted to live, if not for himself then for his daughter...I think u have been on this forum for a long time and have a better idea about the topics as compared to me....Am glad that u pointed this out to me...It would great to start a topic on this.. If u wish to start the topic then u can please go ahead …. I would love to post on that…If u want me to start the topic then let me know….I would love to start the topic as I feel that we can get a better perspective about Ennis life after Jack passed away...What is important to get a better dimension to Ennis life...let me know what u think and we can work it out :)..We can also put light of his deepest emotions then like the thought of Jack forgiving him or not....I think we can get more Brokies opinion on this and it will be enriching to all of us of having a light about Ennis life after Jack and how he will live by those precious memories and always take Jack as a part of him....How he will find meaning in his life after Jack and on based on what u say will he ever be able to forgive himself???
I am of the same mind. Without Jack, I think that the older Ennis will never be free from suffering and regret. It is a bleak and uncertain future.
But in my mind, there is a passing thought that makes me hopeful: that Jack's death has taught Ennis how to really LOVE. Surrounded by a bleaknes and a sadness that would last a lifetime, there is still that grace that finally enables him to love from the depths of the heart. That is reason enough to live.
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As a mother, when I embrace my children, I see a picture of two little boys with such a sad and empty childhood, Jack and Ennis, the first one humiliated by his father, and the other one molested by his brother. And I see myself embracing two of them, giving them a shelter they never had.
Then I see two young man, two dear lifetime friends, two parts perfectly match together, naturally bounded in the beauty of nature. I see two halves finding each other and staying together not enough to understand how vital it was for both, but long enough to make any other life without each other, almost sensesless.
As a women, I see so impressive erotic charge in the intimate scenes between two man, that made me so surprised about my own feelings. I see FNIT and SNIT, even short, but with so many possibilities in my imagination :d)... Their sex was not only a physical need, is was a phsycological need, it was the final step to complete coupling, and that's what made it so attractive. :P
Then I see the end of the lovely life. They split so sudden, so speechless, so heartbreaking. What hurt me the most here are the Ennis's words in four years (not shown in the movie) when he admits that he shouldn't have let Jack go in 1963. That hurts.
Then I see Jack's suffer while desperately trying to find someone to fulfil his heart.
As an conservative Christian I see two families, Jack's and Ennis's, which normally I would find so lovely and natural. But in my heart I know that there is an emptiness, there is a need Ennis and Jack have, and no one can make them feel better but the other one. That is so disturbing in my mind. I split here in two, one – who always support family, and two – who can not bear the fact how empty their life become...
Then I see the reunion kiss, the best thing I have ever seen in the movie. So charged, so deep, 4 years of suffer to redeem in only one kiss. That was powerfull, and I will allways see it somewhere when someone kisses, and I will always try to get the same emotion from the kiss. But it'll never be the same. I see Ennis come out of his shell for a moment, showing that he knows what Jack came for. He was obviously ready to give it to him! And I see Jack overwhelmed with his kiss, shivering, excited and so surrendering to Ennis's arms. Priceless!
The motel room is also a lovely picture in my mind when I see Jack savors Ennis's hair and enjoys it. How happy he is, how deeply in love he is. I see Ennis, not capable to say one normal sentence, laying so relaxed on Jack's shoulder. That is a beautiful picture. ^f^
As a wife, I see Alma much alike Ennis – closed, silent, suffering but not capable to fight for the man she loves. Even she knows ALL about Jack, she never said anything, but always put a pressure on Ennis. She was a good person, but not soft enough. She never found a way to his heart. As impossible as this mission looks, I think that she had some opportunities.
I see Loreen (Lureen) not so bad as she is in the book. She was mostly easy to deal with, she let Jack live as he wanted, but I feel that she thinks of Jack as her MAN! She showed a pride when he stood up against her father, she tried to hide her feelings during the phone call with Ennis, but obvious she was sad, eyes full of tears. As much as she look uninterested, I think that she was a good wife. I have a feeling that she knew that something was not right, but did not explore it, just let it be without the presssure. At least Jack could breathe very easily in that marriage, and that's what he really needed.
Also, I see two dear and loving fathers who showed a great care for their children. I like that picture in my mind.
Then I see a forthcoming tragedy, a tragedy that shattered my heart and leaves it in pieces for weeks now.
First I see so dear Jack's face expecting to find a peace and cohabitation with Ennis, after he divorced, and then I see him cry trying to find a comfort in a service of a Mexican male prostitute. So sad! So humiliating!
And then a final night, two of them sitting inappropriately distant, and I always hear the Jack's word: "The truth is: sometime I miss you so much I can hardly stand it.“ These words are burning my heart like a fire. It hurts.A lot! $)
Instead a hug or a close touch, I see only a Ennis's hand so causally put over Jack's body. I see Jack not facing Ennis, I see not so close relationship that I would like.
And then I see the final quarrel, Ennis tries to apologize, and Jack so lonely and desperate, so bitter. I see Jack embraces convulsed Ennis, saying some bad words, but all comes from his extreme love for Ennis. And then I see him saying: "Never enough time, never enough!" I see an enormous Ennis's pain, and I feel so deeply sorry for him.
Then I see myself counting, trying to add some more times when they have been together (well, if they were together 4-5 times a year, during 20 years...), trying to make this difficult situation less tragic, but suddenly I got a punch in my nose. - I see two young man, hugging in front of fire, so peaceful, so happy, so full of life opportunities. Opportunities, never come to life, opportunities that only their inner obstruction has destroyed. :\'(
And I see so unhappy Jack's face as Ennis is leaving for the last time.
And then I see Ennis holding a postcard with a worse news of all. But he showed no obvious expression. Then I remember when he first time received the postcard from Jack. No smile, no reaction, nothing from outside, only his inner world. That's Ennis. I understand.
And then I see him finding two shirts after being humiliated by John Twist, a nasty old man. I see Jack's mother, so broken, without any wish to confront her bad husband, but gentle with Ennis. I see her understanding, her love for Ennis, cause she knows that he saved a part of her beloved son in him.
I see again two young man wrestling on the mountain, broken nose, blood, stolen shirt, and intimacy that Jack always felt and kept in his closet. For so long and lonely 20 years.
Than I see two hugging shirts in so poor Ennis's home, I see tears, and I hear the words: „Jack, I love you“. Even if it sounded: „Jack I swear!“.
As a Christian, in the end I wanted to see the light, and eventually I will, but for now I see pain and a deep deep sorrow in myself. And tears. A lot of them. :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'(
Sorry folks, I know this post is far too long, but there was a topic, and I just felt like speaking about my pictures of the movie and I just let it roll. ~)
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I am of the same mind. Without Jack, I think that the older Ennis will never be free from suffering and regret. It is a bleak and uncertain future.
But in my mind, there is a passing thought that makes me hopeful: that Jack's death has taught Ennis how to really LOVE. Surrounded by a bleaknes and a sadness that would last a lifetime, there is still that grace that finally enables him to love from the depths of the heart. That is reason enough to live.
Jack death changed Ennis from within…Apart from the pain and suffering there was also an insight that Jack completed him…I think that he kinda knew it before but it hit him the time he saw the shirts and hugged it…The only way he can live ahead is by keeping the love of Jack alive and by forgiving himself for all the times that he hurt Jack..
I am so sure that the rest of his life he will live with the precious memories of Jack in his heart, feel the presence of Jack on the mountains and above all in his heart and life…Jack will always be with Ennis in spirit as he is a part of the real Ennis and Ennis would never want to lose Jack in spirit as if he loses Jack then he will lose himself……I think we must start a topic on forgiveness and Ennis after Jack's death and see the Brokies opinions Ennis life after Jack…That would be very nice..isn't it?
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Dear Loreen, I loved your post and and I adore the way u have connected with the story..it was as if the entire move was playing in my mind while I was reading it…I loved your explanation of the reunion scene .Thankyou dear ^f^….I think that the friendship developed between Ennis and Jack initially was beautiful..Ennis was highly introverted but he felt so comfortable with Jack that he actually opened up and told Jack about his life…The FNIT was erotic and The SNIT is romantic, beautiful and warm <^(..It gives me a tender feeling..The Reunion kiss is passionate and an explosion of all repressed emotions for 4 long years..The Scene when Jack tells Ennis “The truth is, sometime I miss you so much I can hardly stand it.” is simply an expression of love and strong need to be with the other..I think that Ennis wanted to emote but he didn’t as it would have made Ennis more vulnerable and Ennis was constrained as a person…The Arms he held around Jack was beautiful…I think that it did mean a lot…In his own sweet and subtle way Ennis wanted to tell Jack that he felt the same…The final confrontation literally shatters me and the Dozy Embrace in between gives me a beautful site of their gentle and tender affection. And watching Ennis leave after the final Confrontaion is too hard for me to take…I just get torn apart and am full of pain :\'(…
I think in the end what picture remains in my mind is Ennis living by all the memories he has with Jack and he is filled with pain but at the same time love that Jack gave him..He will be alive for Jack as Jack would never want to see him suffer and in pain…I have taken a lot of strength to accept what all happened and I know that its hard for them and for us…I think we can learn from them to to always treaure the love that comes our way...When it is in front of u to acknowledge it and to appreciate it and to cherish every moment with it…
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Sorry folks, I know this post is far too long, but there was a topic, and I just felt like speaking about my pictures of the movie. I and I just let it roll. ~)
No need to apologize, loreen.
At the heart of Christ's teachings is love. It comes with (and also brings with it) pain as well as happiness. But above all, it calls for understanding... And patience, with yourself and with others.
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Jack death changed Ennis from within…Apart from the pain and suffering there was also an insight that Jack completed him…I think that he kinda knew it before but it hit him the time he saw the shirts and hugged it…The only way he can live ahead is by keeping the love of Jack alive and by forgiving himself for all the times that he hurt Jack..
I am so sure that the rest of his life he will live with the precious memories of Jack in his heart, feel the presence of Jack on the mountains and above all in his heart and life…Jack will always be with Ennis in spirit as he is a part of the real Ennis and Ennis would never want to lose Jack in spirit as if he loses Jack then he will lose himself……I think we must start a topic on forgiveness and Ennis after Jack's death and see the Brokies opinions Ennis life after Jack…That would be very nice..isn't it?
smartestsonia , would you do the honor of starting this thread? Yes, it would be a deep and wonderful topic.
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Loreen, I loved your post - it is easy to see that you have made this movie a part of you. I love how you said that you observe other people kissing now and unconsciously compare them to Ennis and Jack, and the incredible strength of their feelings at that point. I totally understand what you mean. I remember feeling the same way after my first viewing; I so wanted my husband to grab me, hold my face close and tight, and kiss me with that same passion. It's almost intoxicating, watching Ennis and Jack. And yet we know that it's about much more than the physical need; Ennis' nervousness and anticipation are so lovely.
So glad you're a part of our Brokie community, Loreen!
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Dear Smartestsonia, tpe and Hippiewannabe, :t) ^f^ <^(
for your kind words!!
I always like to write long posts (isn't it obvious ;D ?) , but I can not express my feeling in English as good as I can in Croatian. Even so, you had a patience to read it and to understand the way I feel, regardless of so many mistakes. :ghug:
And a big :t) to all Brokies for being here. These days I really needed someone, and you are the perfect people to understand my emotions. I could not share this feelings with anyone else but you. ^f^
Hippiewannabe - I also find every kiss so luke warm, so not enough passionate , so 一般 ... after I saw the reunion kiss. Such a passion! Anyone would like to feel that sometimes, and E&J had it. <^(
Shalom to all of you Brokies! %) %) %)
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Dear Smartestsonia, tpe and Hippiewannabe, :t) ^f^ <^(
for your kind words!!
I always like to write long posts (isn't it obvious ;D ?) , but I can not express my feeling in English as good as I can in Croatian. Even so, you had a patience to read it and to understand the way I feel, regardless of so many mistakes. :ghug:
And a big :t) to all Brokies for being here. These days I really needed someone, and you are the perfect people to understand my emotions. I could not share this feelings with anyone else. ^f^
Hippiewannabe - I also find every kiss so luke warm, so not enough passionate , so 一般 ... after I saw the reunion kiss. Such a passion! Anyone would like to feel that sometimes, and E&J had it. <^(
Shalom to all of you Brokies! %) %) %)
Thanks to you, too, Loreen! I love how you are now using the sentence from the SS as your signature line.
You can call me Molly! I now feel like all you folks are like family!
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Dear Molly, :^^) !!!
The signature sentence I had noticed immidiately in the book, but it was YOU who gave it to me in English! :t) again! <^(
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Loreen...I shouldn't have read your post right before bed. I'm a mess. Your English is wonderful, & hearing this coming from someone so new to BBM is re-living my PBS all over. Sometimes I'm okay, then I'll see these wonderful insights & Im on BB again.
We couldn't quit Ennis or Jack if we tried. They will always be a part of us. :ghug:
:gnight:
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Attaley,
thank you for reading it and to understand it. I need that!
Even now my computer is in danger from flood.... but it is easier when you can talk about it with people who understand.
<^( <^(
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smartestsonia , would you do the honor of starting this thread? Yes, it would be a deep and wonderful topic.
Thank you Thomas for your support and wonderful gesture :) ^f^
I did start the topic and please share with us your precious feelings and opinion on it..
The link is below
http://ennisjack.com/index.php?topic=14780.0
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As a mother, when I embrace my children, I see a picture of two little boys with such a sad and empty childhood, Jack and Ennis, the first one humiliated by his father, and the other one molested by his brother. And I see myself embracing two of them, giving them a shelter they never had.
Then I see two young man, two dear lifetime friends, two parts perfectly match together, naturally bounded in the beauty of nature. I see two halves finding each other and staying together not enough to understand how vital it was for both, but long enough to make any other life without each other, almost sensesless.
As a women, I see so impressive erotic charge in the intimate scenes between two man, that made me so surprised about my own feelings. I see FNIT and SNIT, even short, but with so many possibilities in my imagination :d)... Their sex was not only a physical need, is was a phsycological need, it was the final step to complete coupling, and that's what made it so attractive. :P
Then I see the end of the lovely life. They split so sudden, so speechless, so heartbreaking. What hurt me the most here are the Ennis's words in four years (not shown in the movie) when he admits that he shouldn't have let Jack go in 1963. That hurts.
Then I see Jack's suffer while desperately trying to find someone to fulfil his heart.
As an conservative Christian I see two families, Jack's and Ennis's, which normally I would find so lovely and natural. But in my heart I know that there is an emptiness, there is a need Ennis and Jack have, and no one can make them feel better but the other one. That is so disturbing in my mind. I split here in two, one – who always support family, and two – who can not bear the fact how empty their life become...
Then I see the reunion kiss, the best thing I have ever seen in the movie. So charged, so deep, 4 years of suffer to redeem in only one kiss. That was powerfull, and I will allways see it somewhere when someone kisses, and I will always try to get the same emotion from the kiss. But it'll never be the same. I see Ennis come out of his shell for a moment, showing that he knows what Jack came for. He was obviously ready to give it to him! And I see Jack overwhelmed with his kiss, shivering, excited and so surrendering to Ennis's arms. Priceless!
The motel room is also a lovely picture in my mind when I see Jack savors Ennis's hair and enjoys it. How happy he is, how deeply in love he is. I see Ennis, not capable to say one normal sentence, laying so relaxed on Jack's shoulder. That is a beautiful picture. ^f^
As a wife, I see Alma much alike Ennis – closed, silent, suffering but not capable to fight for the man she loves. Even she knows ALL about Jack, she never said anything, but always put a pressure on Ennis. She was a good person, but not soft enough. She never found a way to his heart. As impossible as this mission looks, I think that she had some opportunities.
I see Loreen (Lureen) not so bad as she is in the book. She was mostly easy to deal with, she let Jack live as he wanted, but I feel that she thinks of Jack as her MAN! She showed a pride when he stood up against her father, she tried to hide her feelings during the phone call with Ennis, but obvious she was sad, eyes full of tears. As much as she look uninterested, I think that she was a good wife. I have a feeling that she knew that something was not right, but did not explore it, just let it be without the presssure. At least Jack could breathe very easily in that marriage, and that's what he really needed.
Also, I see two dear and loving fathers who showed a great care for their children. I like that picture in my mind.
Then I see a forthcoming tragedy, a tragedy that shattered my heart and leaves it in pieces for weeks now.
First I see so dear Jack's face expecting to find a peace and cohabitation with Ennis, after he divorced, and then I see him cry trying to find a comfort in a service of a Mexican male prostitute. So sad! So humiliating!
And then a final night, two of them sitting inappropriately distant, and I always hear the Jack's word: "The truth is: sometime I miss you so much I can hardly stand it.“ These words are burning my heart like a fire. It hurts.A lot! $)
Instead a hug or a close touch, I see only a Ennis's hand so causally put over Jack's body. I see Jack not facing Ennis, I see not so close relationship that I would like.
And then I see the final quarrel, Ennis tries to apologize, and Jack so lonely and desperate, so bitter. I see Jack embraces convulsed Ennis, saying some bad words, but all comes from his extreme love for Ennis. And then I see him saying: "Never enough time, never enough!" I see an enormous Ennis's pain, and I feel so deeply sorry for him.
Then I see myself counting, trying to add some more times when they have been together (well, if they were together 4-5 times a year, during 20 years...), trying to make this difficult situation less tragic, but suddenly I got a punch in my nose. - I see two young man, hugging in front of fire, so peaceful, so happy, so full of life opportunities. Opportunities, never come to life, opportunities that only their inner obstruction has destroyed. :\'(
And I see so unhappy Jack's face as Ennis is leaving for the last time.
And then I see Ennis holding a postcard with a worse news of all. But he showed no obvious expression. Then I remember when he first time received the postcard from Jack. No smile, no reaction, nothing from outside, only his inner world. That's Ennis. I understand.
And then I see him finding two shirts after being humiliated by John Twist, a nasty old man. I see Jack's mother, so broken, without any wish to confront her bad husband, but gentle with Ennis. I see her understanding, her love for Ennis, cause she knows that he saved a part of her beloved son in him.
I see again two young man wrestling on the mountain, broken nose, blood, stolen shirt, and intimacy that Jack always felt and kept in his closet. For so long and lonely 20 years.
Than I see two hugging shirts in so poor Ennis's home, I see tears, and I hear the words: „Jack, I love you“. Even if it sounded: „Jack I swear!“.
As a Christian, in the end I wanted to see the light, and eventually I will, but for now I see pain and a deep deep sorrow in myself. And tears. A lot of them. :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'(
Sorry folks, I know this post is far too long, but there was a topic, and I just felt like speaking about my pictures of the movie and I just let it roll. ~)
that was just beautiful (in a sad sad SAD way, huh :( )
thanks for sharing
vanessa
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that was just beautiful (in a sad sad SAD way, huh :( )
thanks for sharing
vanessa
Vanessa,^f^
It was one of my first posts. I just had to put it together, and I'm glad you like it! $)