Brokeback Mountain Forum @ ennisjack.com
The Movie & Story => Characters, Quotes & Scenes => Topic started by: tpe on Jan 06, 2006, 08:34 AM
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This thread is devoted to all those small details in the film that may or may not have any significance.
In her essay that accompanied the screenplay, Proulx said that she admired the small details scattered throughout the film.
One was Jack's paunch that developed subtly over the course of the film (as indicated in the original short story).
Another detail in the film that Proulx said she admired was the small red mark of stray nail polish on Lureen's finger (visible during the phone conversation with Ennis about Jack's death).
I am not so sure if this detail has any significance. Is it supposed to reflect something about Lureen's state of mind after Jack's death?
Please feel free to bring up any other details that you think may be significant in some way...
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This thread is devoted to all those small details in the film that may or may not have any significance.
In her essay that accompanied the screenplay, Proulx said that she admired the small details scattered throughout the film.
One was Jack's paunch that developed subtly over the course of the film (as indicated in the original short story).
Another detail in the film that Proulx said she admired was the small red mark of stray nail polish on Lureen's finger (visible during the phone conversation with Ennis about Jack's death).
I am not so sure if this detail has any significance. Is it supposed to reflect something about Lureen's state of mind after Jack's death?
Please feel free to bring up any other details that you think may be significant in some way...
TPE: Something that stays with me is the emptiness in Jack's parents' home....their spirits seemed empty and then when the camera pans across the house, moving upstairs and even into Jack's room. Everything seems soooooooo empty. Symbolic of Jack's life with his family. Simple. Stoic. Plain.
stationbbm
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TPE: Something that stays with me is the emptiness in Jack's parents' home....their spirits seemed empty and then when the camera pans across the house, moving upstairs and even into Jack's room. Everything seems soooooooo empty. Symbolic of Jack's life with his family. Simple. Stoic. Plain.
stationbbm
Yes, that house is 'American Gothic' times 10. Jack's room is indeed the most haunting part of it. I tried to focus on the different objects in the room, particularly on his desk.
You remember the small toy showing a figure (cowboy?) on a horse that Ennis picks up while in Jack's room? It reminded me of the figure of the horse that Ennis was shown carving in an early scene up on Brokeback mountain...
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TPE: Something that stays with me is the emptiness in Jack's parents' home....their spirits seemed empty and then when the camera pans across the house, moving upstairs and even into Jack's room. Everything seems soooooooo empty. Symbolic of Jack's life with his family. Simple. Stoic. Plain.
stationbbm
Yes, that house is 'American Gothic' times 10. Jack's room is indeed the most haunting part of it. I tried to focus on the different objects in the room, particularly on his desk.
You remember the small toy showing a figure (cowboy?) on a horse that Ennis picks up while in Jack's room? It reminded me of the figure of the horse that Ennis was shown carving in an early scene up on Brokeback mountain...
I noticed that too! I even wondered if it was the horse that Ennis had carved on the mountain
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I noticed that too! I even wondered if it was the horse that Ennis had carved on the mountain
Hi natalia. Yes, that was what I was wondering myself. Good to know that I'm not the only one making these associations! ;D
There is another scene that I still have not figured out.
Remember the 4th of July (?) fireworks scene? Right after Ennis mauls the two obnoxious visitors (bikers? -- I should check the screenplay!) Ennis stands and poses against the backdrop of exploding fireworks and freezes in this stance for a split second.
I am sure this is a reference to something -- another movie? I should look carefully at the screenplay to see if it gives any notes about this. If any of you knows anything about this, go ahead and post it.
I know of a number of directions in the screenplay that references other actors and movies. The one I remember the most is the scene when Ennis is throwing out hay to the cattle from the back of a truck. The screenplay says that Ennis should look something like James Dean in 'Giant'! :)
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I thought the stray nail polish on Lureen's finger was a cut of some sort and didn't think anything of it.
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Yeah, I noticed the stray finger nail polish too. Such a small detail and yet many have noticed it.
Plus the little squeaks that Lureen makes during the call, and of course the water welling in her eyes, not quite tears.
And did it seem like she slammed the phone down not hung up normally?
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And did it seem like she slammed the phone down not hung up normally?
Yes, this is an interesting detail. The screenplay says that Lureen is polite but 'cold' to Ennis thoughout the phone conversation. This slamming down the phone suggested in my mind that she was also angry -- perhaps she knew? Or perhaps she realized it then?
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I think she had a Eureka moment when Ennis said "We herded sheep up on Brokeback in'63".
Jack had never told her why BB was his favorite place, just that it was, she thought it was his "pretend place"
Now suddenly she is speaking with Ennis, Jack's bud from all these years who tells her why BB is so important and just why he wants his ashes on the mountain. She realizes just who she is talking to here. Notice the wetness start in her eyes and the little noises she makes.
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I think she had a Eureka moment when Ennis said "We herded sheep up on Brokeback in'63".
Jack had never told her why BB was his favorite place, just that it was, she thought it was his "pretend place"
Now suddenly she is speaking with Ennis, Jack's bud from all these years who tells her why BB is so important and just why he wants his ashes on the mountain. She realizes just who she is talking to here. Notice the wetness start in her eyes and the little noises she makes.
Yes, it is hard for her not to know at that point, given that Brokeback was Jack's favorite place, his fishing trips with Ennis, and his wish that his ashes be scattered 'where bluebirds sing and there's a whisky spring'. When Ennis said that they herded sheep on Brokeback in 63, it must have been a eureka moment, no doubt about it.
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Yes, that house is 'American Gothic' times 10. Jack's room is indeed the most haunting part of it.
Haunting indeed, I got the feeling that Jack's ghost was calling from the closet. The camera suddenly takes the view from WITHIN the closet, like someone there is watching Ennis. Ennis looks up startled from his introspection and stares at the closet door. Somehow he has just been summoned...
He walks in (is pulled in?) and starts touching everything. Then finds the shirts hidden there all these years. He was meant to find them as his hand was guided.
Notice the "death music" which plays here? not on the soundtrack but accompanies moments of death in the film.
*Edit* Oops changed "like someone there is watching "Jack" to "Ennis"
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Haunting indeed, I got the feeling that Jack's ghost was calling from the closet. The camera suddenly takes the view from WITHIN the closet, like someone there is watching Jack. Ennis looks up startled from his introspection and stares at the closet door. Somehow he has just been summoned...
He walks in (is pulled in?) and starts touching everything. Then finds the shirts hidden there all these years. He was meant to find them as his hand was guided.
Notice the "death music" which plays here? not on the soundtrack but accompanies moments of death in the film.
CoyotePiper, this is a truly wonderful viewpoint.
I myself was not so sure why the entire scene involving Jack's closet invariably sent shivers down my spine. It is precisely because you feel Jack's presence all throughout.
In the beginning, one is not sure if Jack's 'presence' is of a 'malevolent' nature. It is only when Ennis discovers the shirts, holds them up close, and inhales on them that you finally get the assurance that THAT presence is the presence of an ENDURING and CONSTANT love.
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Haunting indeed, I got the feeling that Jack's ghost was calling from the closet. The camera suddenly takes the view from WITHIN the closet, like someone there is watching Jack. Ennis looks up startled from his introspection and stares at the closet door. Somehow he has just been summoned...
He walks in (is pulled in?) and starts touching everything. Then finds the shirts hidden there all these years. He was meant to find them as his hand was guided.
Notice the "death music" which plays here? not on the soundtrack but accompanies moments of death in the film.
CoyotePiper, this is a truly wonderful viewpoint.
I myself was not so sure why the entire scene involving Jack's closet invariably sent shivers down my spine. It is precisely because you feel Jack's presence all throughout.
In the beginning, one is not sure if Jack's 'presence' is of a 'malevolent' nature. It is only when Ennis discovers the shirts, holds them up close, and inhales on them that you finally get the assurance that THAT presence is the presence of an ENDURING and CONSTANT love.
This is great, great insight...Never even occurred to me...tells me how intentional the director is on every single shot in creating the effect he's wanting to achieve. Great post.
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Did anyone else notice how she (the mother) touches the shirt as she puts it in the bag?
As if she knows it is the last time she'll see it & Ennis! :'(
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It's all in the shirt(s), and yes, I think she (Mom) knows all.....
Jim
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And did you notice how the mother sort of chokes herself as the old man says "we got a family plot and he's goin' in it."?
And after all these years Ennis and Jack are really an old married couple. The mother knows this and she likes Ennis who she has just met. Ennis is Jack's choice and mom likes Ennis. This is her son in law. She wants Ennis around I feel.
Just because Jack is gone, doesn't mean the people important in Jack's life must go to. I had a brother in law die 2 years ago. My BIL's family are still important to my sister (and me) even though he's gone. Same with Jack and his 'spouse' with Jack's mom. This is why she says "come back and see us again"
...another observation. Did you notice when Ennis said " I'd be happy to take his ashes up to BB like his wife said he wanted..." at this point the mother looks directly at the old man for his decision. The mom wants the ashes up there. She is defering to the husband however. She is not going to go against her husbands will. She knows its wrong but shuts up. She lets the men handle this.
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And did you notice how the mother sort of chokes herself as the old man says "we got a family plot and he's goin' in it."?
And after all these years Ennis and Jack are really an old married couple. The mother knows this and she likes Ennis who she has just met. Ennis is Jack's choice and mom likes Ennis. This is her son in law. She wants Ennis around I feel.
Just because Jack is gone, doesn't mean the people important in Jack's life must go to. I had a brother in law die 2 years ago. My BIL's family are still important to my sister (and me) even though he's gone. Same with Jack and his 'spouse' with Jack's mom. This is why she says "come back and see us again"
...another observation. Did you notice when Ennis said " I'd be happy to take his ashes up to BB like his wife said he wanted..." at this point the mother looks directly at the old man for his decision. The mom wants the ashes up there. She is defering to the husband however. She is not going to go against her husbands will. She knows its wrong but shuts up. She lets the men handle this.
In the screenplay, it is stated that the mother was never really a part of her husband's life. When she said 'You come again and see us' [my paraphrase], it is said that she says this out of heartfelt sympathy for Ennis. It was clear that Jack loved his mother ('My mama, she believes in the Pentecost') She probably accepted Jack for who he was.
Jack's mother was portrayed with deep feeling. Very rarely do you get films that all the small parts are true cameos -- cinematic gems that can stand alone and be appreciated for beauty and veracity...
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I think the stray nail polish may be related to the lack of "nail bars" in Texas during that time period. She may have been biting her nails due to her existential angst over the loss of a husband under such circumstances.
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True the numbers on the mailbox are presumably still there as the subsequent shot s are from the other side. (wonder what the significance of 17 is)
I believe that it means that finally Ennis has chosen to settle down somewhere...okay yes it is a trailer park, but putting numbers means that he belongs somewhere!
Remeber reading in the short story that he prefered the small flat coz it meant that they could move quickly if needed... or that it took Jack ages to find out where he had moved to after the divorce?
Well now it's sorted he lives at number 17!
What do you think?
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True the numbers on the mailbox are presumably still there as the subsequent shot s are from the other side. (wonder what the significance of 17 is)
I believe that it means that finally Ennis has chosen to settle down somewhere...okay yes it is a trailer park, but putting numbers means that he belongs somewhere!
Remeber reading in the short story that he prefered the small flat coz it meant that they could move quickly if needed... or that it took Jack ages to find out where he had moved to after the divorce?
Well now it's sorted he lives at number 17!
What do you think?
That's a good interpretation and I'm pretty sure that's the effect that they were going for with the whole mailbox/numbers sequence.
I wonder too though if it also meant that Ennis is ready to start recieving mail again... he puts the numbers on a mailbox, which means he has an actual adress where people can send him letters (all of Jack and Ennis' long distance communication was done through the mail) and maybe he's finally ready to make contact with the world again after shutting himself off from it when he learned of Jack's death
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True the numbers on the mailbox are presumably still there as the subsequent shot s are from the other side. (wonder what the significance of 17 is)
I believe that it means that finally Ennis has chosen to settle down somewhere...okay yes it is a trailer park, but putting numbers means that he belongs somewhere!
Remeber reading in the short story that he prefered the small flat coz it meant that they could move quickly if needed... or that it took Jack ages to find out where he had moved to after the divorce?
Well now it's sorted he lives at number 17!
What do you think?
That's a good interpretation and I'm pretty sure that's the effect that they were going for with the whole mailbox/numbers sequence.
I wonder too though if it also meant that Ennis is ready to start recieving mail again... he puts the numbers on a mailbox, which means he has an actual adress where people can send him letters (all of Jack and Ennis' long distance communication was done through the mail) and maybe he's finally ready to make contact with the world again after shutting himself off from it when he learned of Jack's death
Well... OK. Hopefully Ennis will not live out the remainder of his years (40+) alone but, In the book, the very first paragraphs speak about his sweet dreams of Jack Twist, and the facts that the ranch he is working on is closing down and that he is comtemplating moving in with his married daughter for a while until he finds new work and new digs. So why would he be putting numbers on a mailbox that he is moving from within days. The book makes it sound as though he is moving out that very morning...
Jim
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Well... OK. Hopefully Ennis will not live out the remainder of his years (40+) alone but, In the book, the very first paragraphs speak about his sweet dreams of Jack Twist, and the facts that the ranch he is working on is closing down and that he is comtemplating moving in with his married daughter for a while until he finds new work and new digs. So why would he be putting numbers on a mailbox that he is moving from within days. The book makes it sound as though he is moving out that very morning...
Jim
We do not know how long ago Ennis died at the beginning of the short story...plus it states that his daughter is already married...In the movie at the end she has only just told her dad she will be getting married on June the 5th...and i doubt that at 19, her boyfriend already owns a ranch?!!!
He will be moving out..eventually...apart from Summer 1963..20years relationship...Jack's age when he dies, and May 1983 when Jack's FIL dies..we do not know anything about time nor dates!
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Well... OK. Hopefully Ennis will not live out the remainder of his years (40+) alone but, In the book, the very first paragraphs speak about his sweet dreams of Jack Twist, and the facts that the ranch he is working on is closing down and that he is comtemplating moving in with his married daughter for a while until he finds new work and new digs. So why would he be putting numbers on a mailbox that he is moving from within days. The book makes it sound as though he is moving out that very morning...
Jim
We do not know how long ago Ennis died at the beginning of the short story...plus it states that his daughter is already married...In the movie at the end she has only just told her dad she will be getting married on June the 5th...and i doubt that at 19, her boyfriend already owns a ranch?!!!
He will be moving out..eventually...apart from Summer 1963..20years relationship...Jack's age when he dies, and May 1983 when Jack's FIL dies..we do not know anything about time nor dates!
Ennis died? Who says her boyfriend owns a ranch?
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:-[ oops..i meant Jack...sorry
It says in the presentation of BBM (short story)that Alma Jr lives on a ranch with her husband!
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:-[ oops..i meant Jack...sorry
It says in the presentation of BBM (short story)
Thank you!!! I was about ready to go out and hang myself!
Jim
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Thank you!!! I was about ready to go out and hang myself!
Jim
Oh no...i'm so sorry i did not proof read!............It says in the presentation of BBM (short story) that Alma Jr lives on a ranch with her husband!
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This thread is devoted to all those small details in the film that may or may not have any significance.
In her essay that accompanied the screenplay, Proulx said that she admired the small details scattered throughout the film.
One was Jack's paunch that developed subtly over the course of the film (as indicated in the original short story).
Another detail in the film that Proulx said she admired was the small red mark of stray nail polish on Lureen's finger (visible during the phone conversation with Ennis about Jack's death).
I am not so sure if this detail has any significance. Is it supposed to reflect something about Lureen's state of mind after Jack's death?
Please feel free to bring up any other details that you think may be significant in some way
One thing. Have any of you ever wondered why Jack married Lureen in the first place? They had nothing in common and she certainly could have had a better pick within her daddy's community. Could it be that she got pregnant in the back seat of her daddy's car that first night they met? Hmmm... it would for sure give her daddy a good reason to hate him.
Another thing. I don't think Lureen cared much for Jack. He was just there, like a dog or a cat about the house. So why would she lie to Ennis about his death. She had never met Ennis, probable never would, and he certainly was no threat to her, so why lie? Did she really know what happened? She most certainly did, she was an affluent and respected member of her community after all.
what do you think
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One thing. Have any of you ever wondered why Jack married Lureen in the first place? They had nothing in common and she certainly could have had a better pick within her daddy's community. Could it be that she got pregnant in the back seat of her daddy's car that first night they met? Hmmm... it would for sure give her daddy a good reason to hate him.
Another thing. I don't think Lureen cared much for Jack. He was just there, like a dog or a cat about the house. So why would she lie to Ennis about his death. She had never met Ennis, probable never would, and he certainly was no threat to her, so why lie? Did she really know what happened? She most certainly did, she was an affluent and respected member of her community after all.
what do you think
Lureen was 19 when she met and married Jack, i guess she also wanted to escape her Daddy!
Pregnant? Why not, good thinking...coz one thing the short story is laking, is details on time span!
I personally believe that Lureen did love Jack...we (women) tend to love the wrong guys from time to time ;D!
I also believe that she knew who Ennis was and what he meant to Jack..why did she lie? well the $1,000,000 question is whethere or not she lied!
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'Another detail in the film that Proulx said she admired was the small red mark of stray nail polish on Lureen's finger (visible during the phone conversation with Ennis about Jack's death).'
Could it be symbolism for 'blood on her hands, 'if' and I mean 'if' her father had been involved in Jack's death? I perosnally am not convinced that he was however... just a thought ...
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Could it be symbolism for 'blood on her hands, 'if' and I mean 'if' her father had been involved in Jack's death? I personally am not convinced that he was however... just a thought ...
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Lureen's dad died before may 1983! Was dead months before Jack.
Blood on her hands..hummm...not sure.
I just assumed that she did not have time to get her fake nails fixed...after all her husband was dead, and she had a company to look after...
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Ya you're right - went off on a tangent! :D Haven't read the story though - gotta get my hands on it!
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The red on her finger reminds me of Lady MacBeth "Out damn spot".
I have only seen the movie twice. I could swear that Ennis put a number on the mail box, and then, next scene of mailbox, there was no number.
Regarding ashes. IF Ennis had succeeded in scattering the ashes, he still would have obtained only HALF the ashes. Is this symbolic? I mean, he fails to get any ashes, but all he could have hoped for was half anyway. And why would Lureens family want half, since they did not seem too fond of Jack.
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I have only seen the movie twice. I could swear that Ennis put a number on the mail box, and then, next scene of mailbox, there was no number.
It's because we see the letter box from the other side (number was 17 I think)
And why would Lureens family want half, since they did not seem too fond of Jack.
Well he did leave his son and wife behind..He will always be Jack Jr.'s dad, and Lureen did love him too..it's just the father in law that did not like Jack.
My POV ;D , anyone else?
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well...her is my theory on # 17 which just occurred to me...
jack and ennis met around 1963 and meet again after 4 years, which is around 1967/1968 and i believe they start a 20 year relationship. the 20 years includes 1963-1967. i am thinking really they started the real relationship from 1967 on wards so if we assume jack died around 1983/1984 that would make it 16/17 years. so hence the 17 on the mail box?
also another point...
ennis's daughter was going to marry a rough neck who works in the oil fields... isn't most of the oil fields in texas... so... although this is not int he book...the book opens with how ennis has to be out of there and on the road because the farm is being sold and he might stay with his married daughter until he finds another job... remember the time ennis and jack are by the river and ennis ask jack if things between him and his wife are normal...at the end of the conversation jack says why doesn't he move to texas...could it be ennis...finally goes to texas....maybe to be close to jack's grave...
and maybe this is why ennis says...'jack, i swear _______'... jack is pulling ennis invisibly to be close to him...they might not live to gather but in a way by being close to jack's remains is kind of living to gether....
god i'm going to cry now...
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I never thought of where Ennis is at the end, interesting...I mean *do* they have oil fields in Wyoming?
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Re:One thing. Have any of you ever wondered why Jack married Lureen in the first place? They had nothing in common and she certainly could have had a better pick within her daddy's community. Could it be that she got pregnant in the back seat of her daddy's car that first night they met? Hmmm... it would for sure give her daddy a good reason to hate him.
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As a thought on this posting, I had the distinct impression, from the short story and then the movie, that Jack was out for Lureen's money. I think, for her, Jack represented a bullrider's passion and daring -- the kind of "bad boy" most fathers want their daughters to avoid. Though we don't see it in the movie, the ss suggests that Jack is frequently gone on (legitimate) business trips after Lureen takes over BUT (paraphrase) "finds plenty of ways to spend his newfound money" (I was thinking on boys, etc.). I believe they were drifting apart b/c of this and, even more importantly, over Lureen's refusal to acknowledge their son's learning disabilities. Note that when Jack stands in front of Lureen's huge desk at one point in the movie, she looks at him through a haze of cigarette smoke, half ignoring him, and he begs her to talk to the teacher, since the teacher won't stand to hear from him anymore. To me, that definitely looked like a reversal of the stereotypical irritated husband- nagging wife relationship. Jack is obviously very maternal and protective, with his son, as well as with Ennis. But, back to the start, having money is quite important to Jack, perhaps due to his hard upbringing and need for stability financially as well as emotionally.
Thoughts?
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Re:One thing. Have any of you ever wondered why Jack married Lureen in the first place? They had nothing in common and she certainly could have had a better pick within her daddy's community. Could it be that she got pregnant in the back seat of her daddy's car that first night they met? Hmmm... it would for sure give her daddy a good reason to hate him.
******
As a thought on this posting, I had the distinct impression, from the short story and then the movie, that Jack was out for Lureen's money. I think, for her, Jack represented a bullrider's passion and daring -- the kind of "bad boy" most fathers want their daughters to avoid. Though we don't see it in the movie, the ss suggests that Jack is frequently gone on (legitimate) business trips after Lureen takes over BUT (paraphrase) "finds plenty of ways to spend his newfound money" (I was thinking on boys, etc.). I believe they were drifting apart b/c of this and, even more importantly, over Lureen's refusal to acknowledge their son's learning disabilities. Note that when Jack stands in front of Lureen's huge desk at one point in the movie, she looks at him through a haze of cigarette smoke, half ignoring him, and he begs her to talk to the teacher, since the teacher won't stand to hear from him anymore. To me, that definitely looked like a reversal of the stereotypical irritated husband- nagging wife relationship. Jack is obviously very maternal and protective, with his son, as well as with Ennis. But, back to the start, having money is quite important to Jack, perhaps due to his hard upbringing and need for stability financially as well as emotionally.
Thoughts?
Modified the colour because it was too bright...hope you don't mind.
TIP: If you want to quote someone, just clic on the "quote" icon just above the post! ;D
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Yeah I think that Lureen could have had anyone but wanted someone outside her world who was more exciting, and then things didn't go the way she thought obviously.
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Thank you, Frog123!!! I was so embarrassed that I couldn't figure it out .... you are so kind.
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True the numbers on the mailbox are presumably still there as the subsequent shot s are from the other side. (wonder what the significance of 17 is)
Could it be that Ennis was only 17 when he met Jack? As they had a 20 year relationship and Jack died at age 39,so maybe he was a few years older than Ennis.
J
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A tiny little detail that I noticed after the 4th viewing...
The stylists (ugh I'm forgetting the word that means the people who supply the clothing on films! senior moment at 15!) sure do love the Dickies company
Joe Aguirre is wearing a jacket with the Dickies logo on it when talks to Jack and Ennis in the first scene and Ennis also wears a Dickies jacket throughout the last half an hour of the movie.
I may be way off but isn't that a recent clothing line?
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Jack liked Lureen's money, look how he grew up...remember he tells Ennis he almost starved on the rodeo circuit! Watch Jack's face when they are dancing together..all loving stares when he is looking at her, but just before we cut to the car scene, you catch a glimpse of Jack's real feelings when he puts his face beside Lureen's..later in the film, Lureen says husbands don't ask their own wives to dance...Jack got what he needed from her..
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I never thought of where Ennis is at the end, interesting...I mean *do* they have oil fields in Wyoming?
Yes, they do. A few years ago my partner and I took a motorcycle trip to Yellowstone, and Wyoming definitely had a number of pumping jacks around. (That's the thing that actually pulls the oil out of the ground.)
Hard to believe I was actually thinking about moving to Wyoming. As beautiful as it is, I don't think it would be such a great place for two gay city-raised guys! ;D
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Another thing that I noticed last viewing...after they have their big blowout (the "I wish I knew how to quit you" scene) and Ennis is crumpling over, Jack puts his arms around him, comforting him. Then the flashback comes where Ennis puts his arms around Jack. Then, at the end, with the shirts, first Jack symbolically has his arms around Ennis, and then Ennis has his arms around Jack. It made me wonder if that was an intentional mirroring of the last scene where they're together. Very touching.
camom
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Another thing that I noticed last viewing...after they have their big blowout (the "I wish I knew how to quit you" scene) and Ennis is crumpling over, Jack puts his arms around him, comforting him. Then the flashback comes where Ennis puts his arms around Jack. Then, at the end, with the shirts, first Jack symbolically has his arms around Ennis, and then Ennis has his arms around Jack. It made me wonder if that was an intentional mirroring of the last scene where they're together. Very touching.
camom
Excellent catch!
Jim
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Another thing that I noticed last viewing...after they have their big blowout (the "I wish I knew how to quit you" scene) and Ennis is crumpling over, Jack puts his arms around him, comforting him. Then the flashback comes where Ennis puts his arms around Jack. Then, at the end, with the shirts, first Jack symbolically has his arms around Ennis, and then Ennis has his arms around Jack. It made me wonder if that was an intentional mirroring of the last scene where they're together. Very touching.
camom
Excellent catch!
Jim
I'm going to see it again tomorrow, so wonder what else I'll notice. It's amazing how much depth there is--guess I never realized before how much it takes to make a really good movie.
camom
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This thread is devoted to all those small details in the film that may or may not have any significance.
In her essay that accompanied the screenplay, Proulx said that she admired the small details scattered throughout the film.
Another detail in the film that Proulx said she admired was the small red mark of stray nail polish on Lureen's finger (visible during the phone conversation with Ennis about Jack's death). I am not so sure if this detail has any significance. Is it supposed to reflect something about Lureen's state of mind after Jack's death? Please feel free to bring up any other details that you think may be significant in some way...
I, too, noticed the the nail polish smudge on Lureen's finger. I thought: how could she be fixated on doing her nails so soon after her husband gets killed. Then I considered that maybe keeping a routine, like a manicure, was the key to maintaining her sanity. I noticed that her eyes did well up while she was on the telephone with Ennis. Lureen struck me as being very tough. Remember, it was she who approached Jack first when they met. Maybe his loss pained her more than it appeared.
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TPE: Something that stays with me is the emptiness in Jack's parents' home....their spirits seemed empty and then when the camera pans across the house, moving upstairs and even into Jack's room. Everything seems soooooooo empty. Symbolic of Jack's life with his family. Simple. Stoic. Plain.
stationbbm
Stationbbm, you really touched something that I could not get out of my mind. In Annie Proulx' story where she writes about Jack's room, the description was unforgettable in its starkness. Particularly this passage: <<The bedroom, at the top of a steep stair that had its own climbing rhythm, was tiny and hot. afternoon sun pounding through the west window, hitting the narrow boy's (Jack's) bed against the wall, an ink-stained desk and wooden chair, a b.b. gun in a hand-whittled rack over the bed. The window looked down on the gravel road stretching south and it occurred to him (Ennis) that for his (Jack's) growing-up years that was the only road Jack knew.>>
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Another detail: On the door of Joe Aguirre's trailer, the sign reads: "Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again."
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Another detail: On the door of Joe Aguirre's trailer, the sign reads: "Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again."
well spotted ;)
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Anyone notice Heath's pierced ears toward the end of the film?...cute. The Oprah appearance reminded me...
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I like to think that the horse that Ennis picks up in Jack's bedroom is the same one Ennis was carving up on BB. That is if he had any time and ENERGY left to do any wood carving.
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I like to think that the horse that Ennis picks up in Jack's bedroom is the same one Ennis was carving up on BB. That is if he had any time and ENERGY left to do any wood carving.
I looked again today..but cannot be sure...the one Ennis was working on was quite big, a the one in Jack's room so small and with details...
QUESTION : to all screen caps maniacs, can u get one of the two shots pliz????
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Anyone noticed that the clock on the desk in Jack's childhood room. The time stopped at 8:45. It remind me the song" a quarter to nine" it may just a coincidence. I love that song.
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Jack’s mom is an angel. She really is something else. In all that anger and failure that chokes her husband; she clings to her little boy. The one she still loves; always did, always will, nothing could ever change that. Ennis’ visit is her one chance to share that love and sympathy, even if it is confined to a few small gestures and packing the shirts and handing them over to Ennis. (Oh God, someone’s opening the Grand Cooley Dam again. Wish they’d stop doing that!)
His room is nothing less than a shrine; the few items all carefully looked after. Sparse and spare, but full of Jack’s true treasures-the shirts hidden away (Mom surely must have known they were there) and that wooden horse (the one Ennis was carving?). Mrs. Twist is the guardian of the shrine, she must spend what little time she has to herself, when the old man is at his chores and she has a spare moment, in his room trying to keep company with the son she loves so much. Really underscores what it meant to hand over those shirts, as Jack’s belongings were already rather sparse. Also that was the perfect place for Jack to keep his treasures, somewhere Lureen would never go, never intrude upon.
The book stabbed me in the heart with that picture of the family graveyard with its faded plastic flowers amidst that barren, deserted landscape. Dad knows that’s where he’s a going and then it’s the end of the line. No son to take over, no future for what generations of his family must have worked hard to create. He’s a total failure and even he can find no solace to ease his pain. The thought of Jack (who, I of all people, know would be in a better place-Heaven) in that cold, hard ground in the middle of nowhere, breaks my effing heart.
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A few details I noted...
1. Alma Jr. had bluebird earings on in the bar scene with Cassie (I think), and then Lureen saying that for all she knew Brokeback was a mythical place where bluebirds sing and there's a whiskey spring. I wonder if this is intentional or just coincidence.
2. For some reason Cassie's dragonfly rings stand out to me... don't know why.
3. Also, when Ennis left Jack's parents home, he left the window to Jack's room open. This might mean he is somehow letting Jack free?
I like the thought that the stray nail polish meant that Lureen somehow had "blood on her hands". Maybe she could put up with a few "fishing" trips a year but not in her own backyard.
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Great insight kysmith72...I agree that the open window allows Jack out...thanks
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On the other hand, perhaps opening the window has something to do with Ennis' opening up to the possibilities of the future, to somehow resolve things for himself, and move on. I dont know. Not sure. But I think one must allow for that possibility.
I mean, he was about to tell his daughter that he could not attend the wedding. But suddenly, something changed inside him, and he said yes.
Yes is a world
and in this world of yes of lie
(skillfully curled)
all worlds
Love is a place
and through this place of Love move
(with brightness of peace)
all places
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Hi guys and gals!
Please stick to the topic ;D
"Another detail in the film that Proulx said she admired was the small red mark of stray nail polish on Lureen's finger (visible during the phone conversation with Ennis about Jack's death). "
This one nice detail I noticed on my 3st viewings,
On 4 th viewing I was looking somewhere else.
It's my turn now to be off topic, duh!
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Hello all,
I guess I can be the authority on the Wyoming stuff seeing as I live just outside of Casper. There are in fact rigs here. Halliburton (linked to the vice president) has a branch here. Just down the road from me as a matter of fact.
I too noticed all the details you've been discussing. I didn't realize that was actually nail polish on Lureen's finger. I figured maybe it was blood from a needle prick (?) or something. The horse in Jack's room wasn't the one Ennis carved. The one Ennis carved was bigger and less detailed.
I'm not sure what else to add here. And a side note... I'm not sure how many of you folks know this, but the movie was filmed in Canada. Wyoming doesn't have much scenery like what was in the movie. It's mostly just sagebrush, cactus, and dry grass around here. At least in the part I live in.
If you have any Wyoming related questions, I can do my best to answer them.
Keep smiling!
CP :P
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The horse in Jack's room wasn't the one Ennis carved. The one Ennis carved was bigger and less detailed.
Now that you mention that horse in Jack's room, the cowboy on the horse bears a curious resemblence to a cartoon movie of toys which are alive and have an adventure, or is that my imagination. Is it called Toystory? I only remember seeing previews on televsion. That cowboy figure stuck in my mind. Did anyone else get that impression?
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Now that I think about it, yes the horse and rider did resemble Woody and Bullseye from Toy Story.
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The horse Ennis was carving was not finished and could have been the one in Jack's room.
Every kid had a horse and cowboy toy back then. Why I even had a holster and chaps when a 6 year old......nothing like the chaps I wear these days.....leather ones....... big openings.....gotta go
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Now that you mention that horse in Jack's room, the cowboy on the horse bears a curious resemblance to a cartoon movie of toys which are alive and have an adventure, or is that my imagination. Is it called Toystory? I only remember seeing previews on television. That cowboy figure stuck in my mind. Did anyone else get that impression?
There is most definitely a resemblance to "Woody," the cowboy in Toystory. Here's a brief plot summary from "Toystory:" <<Toy Story is about the 'secret life of toys' when people are not around. When Buzz Lightyear, a space-ranger, takes Woody's place as Andy's favorite toy, Woody doesn't like the situation and gets into a fight with Buzz. Accidentally, Buzz falls out the window and Woody is accused by all the other toys of having killed him. He has to go out of the house to look for him so that they can both return to Andy's room. But while on the outside they get into all kinds of trouble while trying to get home.>>
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I never thought of where Ennis is at the end, interesting...I mean *do* they have oil fields in Wyoming?
They have oil fields in downtown Los Angeles --- why not Wyoming? :)
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It's amazing how much depth there is--guess I never realized before how much it takes to make a really good movie.
Camom
I think it takes a genius like Ang Lee.
Totally forgetting the subject of the movie, let me say that the performances of Jacob Gyllenhall, Heath Ledger and Ang Lee will go down in my mine as absolute perfection. The other actors were just that --- actors, and it came across that way to me. That is not to say the didn't give good performances; they did.
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The horse in Jack's room wasn't the one Ennis carved. The one Ennis carved was bigger and less detailed.
No, it wasn't the same horse, as you say. But, did it represent how much the two of them were alike and were meant to be together? Jack having a carved horse when he was a boy and liking it enough to keep it all those years. Ennis carving a horse somewhat like it. Is this one of the things that attracted Jack to Ennis: their similar likes?
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If you have any Wyoming related questions, I can do my best to answer them.
What is gay life like in Wyoming --- if there is any? I have heard it can be very dangerous up there for a gay person (or bi-sexual for that mater). True?
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The horse in Jack's room wasn't the one Ennis carved. The one Ennis carved was bigger and less detailed.
No, it wasn't the same horse, as you say. But, did it represent how much the two of them were alike and were meant to be together? Jack having a carved horse when he was a boy and liking it enough to keep it all those years. Ennis carving a horse somewhat like it. Is this one of the things that attracted Jack to Ennis: their similar likes?
from what I could see of the horse that Ennis was carving was a work in progress, that is not finished. Consider that a rider for this carving would be done separately. The finished carving could very wel have been the one Ennis was carving on BBM.
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His room is nothing less than a shrine; the few items all carefully looked after. Sparse and spare, but full of Jack’s true treasures-the shirts hidden away (Mom surely must have known they were there) and that wooden horse (the one Ennis was carving?). Mrs. Twist is the guardian of the shrine, she must spend what little time she has to herself, when the old man is at his chores and she has a spare moment, in his room trying to keep company with the son she loves so much. Really underscores what it meant to hand over those shirts, as Jack’s belongings were already rather sparse. Also that was the perfect place for Jack to keep his treasures, somewhere Lureen would never go, never intrude upon.
I think you're right, Jack's mom must have known the shirts were there. And your comment about keeping his treasures there, safe from Lureen--now I do think that horse and rider might very well be the finished version of the one Ennis was carving up on Brokeback. Great observations!
camom
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Kisses to rabjr1 and camom (wish I could work these damned smiley faces!), I think that the horse we see Ennis beginning to carve near the start of the summer may very well be the one we see with the rider in Jack's room. What could be more natural whittling to pass the time while he was alone on the mountain with only the sheep for company? By summer's end he'd have a lovely little trinket. Who would he give it to? Besides it has such a sixties look to it (a la cartoons popular at the time) and Ennis does make a beeline for it at the end when he visits Jack's room for the first time. I may be wrong, wouldn't be the first time! Titus.
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I think the strongest arguement that the carved toy is not the same one that Ennis was working on earlier in the film was simply the reaction that Ennis had at seeing the toy, or more correctly, the lack of reaction. Personally, I would have thought that finding something like that would have elicited a reaction similar to the one when the shirts are found.
Furthermore, there is no such hint in the short story, and I think such a discovery would take away from the power and emotion of the shirt scene.
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I think that in this movie there are several little things that show up early and then again later in the film. Maybe to reinforce the connection oh the mountain/past? Of course the shirts are the most poignant, intimate, heart-gut wrenching things in this film. The horse carving scene and the horse & rider scene are similar but less intense.
Got to see the film again to compare the figures in Ennis's hand.
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I think the strongest arguement that the carved toy is not the same one that Ennis was working on earlier in the film was simply the reaction that Ennis had at seeing the toy, or more correctly, the lack of reaction. Personally, I would have thought that finding something like that would have elicited a reaction similar to the one when the shirts are found.
Furthermore, there is no such hint in the short story, and I think such a discovery would take away from the power and emotion of the shirt scene.
You make a very good point. The only thing I would say in defense of the horse theory (lol) is that presumably Ennis would've given it to Jack and therefore it wouldn't have been a huge surprise to see in his room (he does take the time to pick it up and look at), whereas Ennis thought he'd lost his shirt 20 years earlier. It must have been a shock to find it in Jack's closet.
Now I'll have to watch the movie over and over again just to compare those two horses! ;)
camom
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I think the strongest arguement that the carved toy is not the same one that Ennis was working on earlier in the film was simply the reaction that Ennis had at seeing the toy, or more correctly, the lack of reaction. Personally, I would have thought that finding something like that would have elicited a reaction similar to the one when the shirts are found.
Furthermore, there is no such hint in the short story, and I think such a discovery would take away from the power and emotion of the shirt scene.
You make a very good point. The only thing I would say in defense of the horse theory (lol) is that presumably Ennis would've given it to Jack and therefore it wouldn't have been a huge surprise to see in his room (he does take the time to pick it up and look at), whereas Ennis thought he'd lost his shirt 20 years earlier. It must have been a shock to find it in Jack's closet.
Now I'll have to watch the movie over and over again just to compare those two horses! ;)
camom
What amazes me is that the toy horse suggested/brought back to the minds of many viewers those halycon days in 1963 on Brokeback Mountain. This is a wonderful and suggestive cinematic device, in my opinion.
The toy also seems to suggest a lost innocence...
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I absolutely agree that the toy was used purposely to draw the viewer back to the past of the movie. My first thought upon seeing Ennis pick up the toy was if they were one and the same.
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What amazes me is that the toy horse suggested/brought back to the minds of many viewers those halycon days in 1963 on Brokeback Mountain. This is a wonderful and suggestive cinematic device, in my opinion.
The toy also seems to suggest a lost innocence...
amazing indeed! Thankx
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(Why didn't Lureen elaborate on the details of her husband's death...)
I'm sure that "maintaining Southern decorum" was ingrained in Lureen from her earliest childhood. Watch the mannerisms of Lureen and her mother at the dining room on Thanksgiving. Fayette Newsome sat there painfully quiet trying to maintain her dignity as L.D. and Jack had their domestic stand-off. Lureen sat there much in the same manner. I thought it was a very interesting look into her upbringing.
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(Why didn't Lureen elaborate on the details of her husband's death...)
Thankx Croyden...why did she not elaborate, I guess that even Ang Lee did not want to elaborate where Annie Proulx didn't.
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To Patriot1,
Well, as far as I can tell, there's a pretty defined presence of gays and lesbians in Wyoming. There seems to be a little bit of fear of coming out due to incidents of the past (Matt Shepard), but I worked for a lesbian couple and also worked with a couple of lesbians and a couple of gay men. I'm still friends with the guys. They're as open as they feel they should be and if nothing else are happy in their skins. I also went to school with a kid for years who is gay.
I must say that when I started working, I was pretty sheltered, so it took me months to figure out that my bosses were gay. They wear wedding rings, so I figured they had husbands. The clincher though is that the rings are identical. There were other clues too so I just kept quiet about it and eventually it just clicked. But then again, they aren't as open about it seeing that they run a business.
My buddies are just like anybody else. Lonely for companionship and tired of playing head games. They're great friends though because they can accept me as I am. I'm a little on the heavy side, and they can see past that to the fact that I'm a great person.
For the people I know and have talked to, life seems as normal as it can be. They hate it when people label them. They just want to be accepted for who they are and not as "Oh, this is so and so and he/she is gay."
Does that answer your question well enough? I refuse to give names or locations as I don't know where people are and I don't exactly want anything to happen to anybody I'm close to. I hope you respect that.
Any other questions?
Keep smiling!
CP :P
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Did anyone else notice what appears to be ash or an insect (small black speck) on Ennis's face during one of the outdoor scenes when he is talking with Jack up on Brokeback by the River?
A second later, after a push from Jack, the object is missing from Ennis face. It is then noticeable that what I think is cigarette ashes are on Ennis's collar.
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Yes I did. I initially thought it was an insect, but not so sure really. After Ennis hits Jack ('All them THINGS I don't know...'), it seemed to have fallen on his shirt collar.
These things are what you start noticing after multiple viewings!
I think I will merge this thread with 'Stray Nail Polish and Other Details'.
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Do you think Jack burned Ennis face with a cigarette? Which left a butt? And it then fell to his collar?
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Do you think Jack burned Ennis face with a cigarette? Which left a butt? And it then fell to his collar?
I doubt it. ;)
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i am trying to figure out how such a butt could have gotten on ennis's face.
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Mosquito..big one. Flies off (or its another take) after Ennis says..all them things I don't know...
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Yea, I thought it was a horsefly.
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sorry but i got lost...what exactly is the stray nail polish suppose to mean....
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sorry but i got lost...what exactly is the stray nail polish suppose to mean....
She had stains of nail polish on a finger, the hand holding the phone.
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ok. is that supposed to mean something...like blood on her hand?
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Your guess is a good of mine...
Good point by the way.
I'm sure now It's not a blooper.
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I did notice where the (whatever it was) was on Ennis face, then not, then again, then not, drove me nuts trying to concentrate on the words with that happening.
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ok. is that supposed to mean something...like blood on her hand?
It can be interpreted that way. It certaintly is something that makes you go hmmmmm
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I just saw the movie again yesterday, and I could not help notice another haunting detail. I was wondering if anyone out there has also noticed that when Ennis enter's Jack's closet during the visit to Jack's room, you actually see three 'ghostly' finger stains on the door frame as Ennis enters the closet.
It is perhaps a trivial detail that was not planned, but the appearance of the finger markings on the closet door frame brought Jack's presence strongly to the fore in this scene (at least for me.)
Very haunting detail, IMO.
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I just saw the movie again yesterday, and I could not help notice another haunting detail. I was wondering if anyone out there has also noticed that when Ennis enter's Jack's closet during the visit to Jack's room, you actually see three 'ghostly' finger stains on the door frame as Ennis enters the closet.
It is perhaps a trivial detail that was not planned, but the appearance of the finger markings on the closet door frame brought Jack's presence strongly to the fore in this scene (at least for me.)
Very haunting detail, IMO.
tpe, hope your trip goes well. It is really haunting based on your description. Another reason to see BBM again. Thanks!
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tpe, hope your trip goes well. It is really haunting based on your description. Another reason to see BBM again. Thanks!
Hi ethan!
Nice to be back. The trip was great, but kept me away from the forum for too long! ;) I'll get back to my regular duties as quickly as I can. :)
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Hi ethan!
Nice to be back. The trip was great, but kept me away from the forum for too long! ;) I'll get back to my regular duties as quickly as I can. :)
Welcome back. The forum missed you. :D
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Looking out Jack's window, what is the symbol painted on the barn in Ennis's view?
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Looking out Jack's window, what is the symbol painted on the barn in Ennis's view?
There was an old car in the bard. The sing was the spare tire. At least that is what I saw... I think I saw.
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Looking out Jack's window, what is the symbol painted on the barn in Ennis's view?
I see a white star inside a circle.
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I haven't seen much mentioned about Lureen's splotch of nail polish (only some notes in the "Lureen's teeth" thread). Having read all the comments in the thread "Oprah question: Did Lureen know", I missed the nail polish symbol. It's not only that everybody of the film team had this "Lureen did know for sure" attitude. Ang Lee gave us a subtle, but obvious visual hint of his point of view. Everything in Lureen's home was so perfectly arranged, but: There was this tiny little splotch of nail polish on her finger, in the color red. Certainly not the color of love in this scene, but the color of blood. She did know for sure, that Jack has been killed and had participated, although we'lll never know how. She was part of the system.
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I haven't seen much mentioned about Lureen's splotch of nail polish (only some notes in the "Lureen's teeth" thread). Having read all the comments in the thread "Oprah question: Did Lureen know", I missed the nail polish symbol. It's not only that everybody of the film team had this "Lureen did know for sure" attitude. Ang Lee gave us a subtle, but obvious visual hint of his point of view. Everything in Lureen's home was so perfectly arranged, but: There was this tiny little splotch of nail polish on her finger, in the color red. Certainly not the color of love in this scene, but the color of blood. She did know for sure, that Jack has been killed and had participated, although we'lll never know how. She was part of the system.
Interesting thought. I did notice the blotch of red nail polish on her finger, but didn't know if there was any significance to it. Could it mean "blood stain on her hand"? I don't know either.
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It has overtones of Lady Macbeth, who after inciting her husband to murder the king and seeing his blood-covered hands, said !A little water clears us of this dee," but at the end of the play when she sleepwalks is seen still trying to wash a spot of blood from her hand.
My feeling is that Lureen has some idea that Jack's death was murder, though she is a Southern lady in a place where men acted and women were often protected from the knowledge of what they had done. And as has been said, she is part of the system.
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You may find the following thread interesting and related to this thread. :)
http://ennisjack.com/index.php?topic=1247.0
Stray nail polish and other details.
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Anyone noticed that the clock on the desk in Jack's childhood room. The time stopped at 8:45. It remind me the song" a quarter to nine" it may just a coincidence. I love that song.
The clock: 8:45 - add up the numbers = 17. Also, Brokeback Mountain = 17 letters ???
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I never thought of where Ennis is at the end, interesting...I mean *do* they have oil fields in Wyoming?
Ennis' sis, "married a roughneck - moved to Casper (Wy.)" - ???
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You may find the following thread interesting and related to this thread. :)
http://ennisjack.com/index.php?topic=1247.0
Stray nail polish and other details.
Would there be any objection if I merge these 2 threads into one?
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Would there be any objection if I merge these 2 threads into one?
Sure, that makes sense.
Jürgen
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It has overtones of Lady Macbeth, who after inciting her husband to murder the king and seeing his blood-covered hands, said !A little water clears us of this dee," but at the end of the play when she sleepwalks is seen still trying to wash a spot of blood from her hand.
My feeling is that Lureen has some idea that Jack's death was murder, though she is a Southern lady in a place where men acted and women were often protected from the knowledge of what they had done. And as has been said, she is part of the system.
Wonderfull! I love your Macbeth analogy. My feeling is that Lureen made for herself an active decision not to know. That means: She knew it, of course, even the details, but she decided for herself not to know. That's a common way to manipulate yourself. It makes life so much easier.
Jürgen
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I got the feeling that Lureen knew alot more than she let on. This " explaination" from her to Ennis of Jack's death seemed so rehearsed to me that she could have had it written down in front of her. Jack traveled alot, and I'm sure he could change a tire without killing himself. She seemed arrogant and fake. The only redeeming value she had was telling Ennis to go to LF where he found the shirts. I'm sure she knew alot more and had "blood" on her hands because of it. And what's up with the "cotton candy" hair? I never cared for her that much anyway. My take.
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Merging with another thread...
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Merge successful.
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Excellent!
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Did anyone notice Heath's tatoo on his wrist during the reunion kiss scene?
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Did anyone notice Heath's tatoo on his wrist during the reunion kiss scene?
No, I didn't notice, JT ???
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Did anyone notice Heath's tatoo on his wrist during the reunion kiss scene?
I did, and it shows also in the last meeting, when Ennis falls into Jack's arms.
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No, I didn't notice, JT ???
His tatoo looks like a bracelet or a piece of twine tied around his wrist. If you don't pay close attention, you may think it's just a crease on his wrist. It's weird that some of the scenes, you don't see it. I wonder if the digitally remove some, or just block it with make-up.
I did, and it shows also in the last meeting, when Ennis falls into Jack's arms.
Good eyes, Twisted. I didn't notice that one. I'll watch it again. Maybe that scene was too moving that I pay more attantion to the boys interactions than anything else.
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(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mezimages.com%2Fimage%2Fommadawn%2F%2Fhelt%2Fsd3%2Ftattoo0081.jpg&hash=b2451e2ba52ad8c6c10cfa20d0e59dd447e87684)
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His tatoo looks like a bracelet or a piece of twine tied around his wrist. If you don't pay close attention, you may think it's just a crease on his wrist. It's weird that some of the scenes, you don't see it. I wonder if the digitally remove some, or just block it with make-up.
There is a special kind of makeup especially to cover tatoos.
I guess after three or four takes in a scene as .... friction-intense as the reunion scene, some of the makeup would come off.
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There is a special kind of makeup especially to cover tatoos.
I guess after three or four takes in a scene as .... friction-intense as the reunion scene, some of the makeup would come off.
Interesting. I don't know if a character such as Ennis would have sported tattoos. We have already noted in a previous post the heavily tattood lady who was at the dance floor with Cassi and Ennis during the double date with Alma Jr. It is not that tattoos are unknown or rare in Ennis's world; rather, I am not sure if it was in keeping with his subdued, unassuming character.
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Interesting. I don't know if a character such as Ennis would have sported tattoos. We have already noted in a previous post the heavily tattood lady who was at the dance floor with Cassi and Ennis during the double date with Alma Jr. It is not that tattoos are unknown or rare in Ennis's world; rather, I am not sure if it was in keeping with his subdued, unassuming character.
I don't think Ennis is the type that will ever get a tattoo. He is too practical and tattoos are a waste of any money he may have.
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I don't think Ennis is the type that will ever get a tattoo. He is too practical and tattoos are a waste of any money he may have.
That's a good point.
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I don't see Ennis drawing attention to himself by or wasting money on anything as frivolous as a tattoo. ennis always strikes me as very much of a utilitarian.
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I don't see Ennis drawing attention to himself by or wasting money on anything as frivolous as a tattoo. ennis always strikes me as very much of a utilitarian.
I agree, Ennis is poor... dirt poor. He smokes and drinks, there is no extra money for tatoos but try to support the familly while he was married and pay children support after his divorce.
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Well I don't know if this was already brought up but a small detail is heard in the second tent scene with Jack & Ennis. When they embrace I was watching with my computer & headphones and you can hear Jack? or Ennis say in a very low almost whisper..."I'm sorry, I'm sorry it's alright". At least that what I believe is said. I wonder why it was made in such a low audible quote in where you almost can't hear it?
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What is sad is discussed elsewhere; as to why it's said so quietly, my feelingis that it's unscripted, improvized by JG during the filming.
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Well I don't know if this was already brought up but a small detail is heard in the second tent scene with Jack & Ennis. When they embrace I was watching with my computer & headphones and you can hear Jack? or Ennis say in a very low almost whisper..."I'm sorry, I'm sorry it's alright". At least that what I believe is said. I wonder why it was made in such a low audible quote in where you almost can't hear it?
There has been much discussion on what was said in the second night in tent. The only link I can find right now is about FNIT, but we all got OT so if you scroll through (see page 3), you will see discussions about was said in the SNIT. I believe it's, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry. It's all right." Then some of us hear, "Lie back, c'mon". One of the biggest disputes, I believe, is who said "I'm sorry". I have gone back & forth, but think everything was said by Jack. It helps to use headphones & turn it up load. Everything is spoken so softly (on purpose, I'm sure, to drive us crazy ;) )
Let us know what you think.
http://ennisjack.com/index.php?topic=3360.60
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There has been much discussion on what was said in the second night in tent. The only link I can find right now is about FNIT, but we all got OT so if you scroll through (see page 3), you will see discussions about was said in the SNIT. I believe it's, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry. It's all right." Then some of us hear, "Lie back, Carmon". One of the biggest disputes, I believe, is who said "I'm sorry". I have gone back & forth, but think everything was said by Jack. It helps to use headphones & turn it up load. Everything is spoken so softly (on purpose, I'm sure, to drive us crazy ;) )
Let us know what you think.
http://ennisjack.com/index.php?topic=3360.60
Whoops, should have known better that this was already brought up somewheres else. Sorry guys... I've heard about this quote before but never really actually listened to it until last night on the collectors edition. Well anyways back to the nail polish and Ennis tattoos! ;)
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Thanks BBM Fan for helping out!
Did any of you have the impression that Jack's bed in his bedroom was much too small? I assumed that this was the bed he used when he was much younger. Did he have to sleep on it with legs dangling over at the edge, I wonder?
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The bedroom looks like a prison cell and that bed is institutional. I assumed his belongings had been taken by Jack or got rid of, though as he came home regularly I'd have thought he's have kept things there, if only the sort of work-wear he wouldn;t need in Childress.
Perhaps that was his childhood bed; I don't see the old man paying for a new one just for the odd times when he came home.
[In the real world it shows a lack of verisimilitude, perhaps; Jack as represented byJake wouldn't have fitted into that bed, but he was never anywhere near it as he wasn't in the scenes at Lightning Flat, so I guess the people who collected the furnishings didn't consider him.]
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And yet I can imagine a grown Jack simply using his childhood bed. He used to sleeping outdoors or in a simple bedroll or even inside his truck. So I suppose sleeping on a bed he has outgrown is realistic enough.
Besides, Mrs. Twist did say she kept the room the same. So it only makes sense that we see a child's bed.
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Thanks BBM Fan for helping out!
Did any of you have the impression that Jack's bed in his bedroom was much too small? I assumed that this was the bed he used when he was much younger. Did he have to sleep on it with legs dangling over at the edge, I wonder?
Happy to help.
I think it was the same bed - Papa Twist would probably have made grown Jack sleep in that little bed just to torment him. >:(
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Happy to help.
I think it was the same bed - Papa Twist would probably have made grown Jack sleep in that little bed just to torment him. >:(
Oh BBM Fan. ;)
As much as I think John Twist was not the best of fathers, I would think that he would not have deliberately planned this to torment Jack. I think it was just a matter of the room not being used that often anymore -- used only when Jack visited or spent the winters with them prior to BBM. Perhaps it was a matter of plain economics. Perhaps it was a preference for austerity.
After all, the Twist house was astonishingly bare. I can't still egt over the bareness of the living/sitting room. It is so cold and austere. It is probably a reflected the character of John Twist wore than it reflected the character of Mrs. Twist.
By comparison, Jack's room, though austere, looked relatively warm and personal. The little objects that were on the desk. The bench by the window. The tidyness and cleanliness of it all, in spite of the spartan decor. I think it reflected Mrs Twist's and Jack's softer, more loving characters.
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Oh BBM Fan. ;)
As much as I think John Twist was not the best of fathers, I would think that he would not have deliberately planned this to torment Jack. I think it was just a matter of the room not being used that often anymore -- used only when Jack visited or spent the winters with them prior to BBM. Perhaps it was a matter of plain economics. Perhaps it was a preference for austerity.
After all, the Twist house was astonishingly bare. I can't still egt over the bareness of the living/sitting room. It is so cold and austere. It is probably a reflected the character of John Twist wore than it reflected the character of Mrs. Twist.
By comparison, Jack's room, though austere, looked relatively warm and personal. The little objects that were on the desk. The bench by the window. The tidyness and cleanliness of it all, in spite of the spartan decor. I think it reflected Mrs Twist's and Jack's softer, more loving characters.
I don't think it was deliberately planned. I just think Papa never thought to make things more comfortable - in Jack's room and out. But knowing what he did to Jack (SS) :\'(, I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt.
What got me was the floors - no carpets - no rugs - just those painted wooden planks. Such a sad home life.
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Given the nutty things interior decorators foist on people, I should think it's only a matter of time before the Lightning flat version of minimalism becomes the latest look.
Sorry, *o)
The interior represents the emotional emptiness of their lives, I think. The bareness of the interior, the sparseness, the lack of comfort, and the exterior is also neglected and uncared-for - as Jack was by his father.
One of themost noticeable things is the lack of possessions of a couple who have lived in that place for years yet have accumulated almost nothing.
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Oh BBM Fan. ;)
As much as I think John Twist was not the best of fathers, I would think that he would not have deliberately planned this to torment Jack. I think it was just a matter of the room not being used that often anymore -- used only when Jack visited or spent the winters with them prior to BBM. Perhaps it was a matter of plain economics. Perhaps it was a preference for austerity.
After all, the Twist house was astonishingly bare. I can't still egt over the bareness of the living/sitting room. It is so cold and austere. It is probably a reflected the character of John Twist wore than it reflected the character of Mrs. Twist.
By comparison, Jack's room, though austere, looked relatively warm and personal. The little objects that were on the desk. The bench by the window. The tidyness and cleanliness of it all, in spite of the spartan decor. I think it reflected Mrs Twist's and Jack's softer, more loving characters.
But can't you all imagine Jack's personality filling up the bareness and emptiness of his childhood home. This environment is what made him. Mothers and sons, Jack was probably the only light in her life, and she would never have that light fill up her life again, now all she has is that sour, bitter, abusive old man who spits in a cup.
I could see Jack though grown, curled up in that bed at night with Ennis's shirts. No matter what went on in childhood, this was his safe place, the things that were important to him were there. And he always returned. His mother said to Ennis, she kept the room the way Jack had it when he was little boy, I think he appreciated that.
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Welcome, HiAltShag - I just realized what your name stands for. ;) I had never noticed that hat bands before; seems I discover something new about this film every day!
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I don't think it was deliberately planned. I just think Papa never thought to make things more comfortable - in Jack's room and out. But knowing what he did to Jack (SS) :\'(, I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt.
What got me was the floors - no carpets - no rugs - just those painted wooden planks. Such a sad home life.
Yes, there was very little wrm touches in the house. At least in Jack's room, you had glimpses of childhood toy that sort of warm the heart...
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Given the nutty things interior decorators foist on people, I should think it's only a matter of time before the Lightning flat version of minimalism becomes the latest look.
Sorry, *o)
The interior represents the emotional emptiness of their lives, I think. The bareness of the interior, the spar**ness, the lack of comfort, and the exterior is also neglected and uncared-for - as Jack was by his father.
One of themost noticeable things is the lack of possessions of a couple who have lived in that place for years yet have accumulated almost nothing.
Yes, I do think it reflected the tough austerity of John Twist, and the life he made his wife and son live through.
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But can't you all imagine Jack's personality filling up the bareness and emptiness of his childhood home. This environment is what made him. Mothers and sons, Jack was probably the only light in her life, and she would never have that light fill up her life again, now all she has is that sour, bitter, abusive old man who spits in a cup.
I could see Jack though grown, curled up in that bed at night with Ennis's shirts. No matter what went on in childhood, this was his safe place, the things that were important to him were there. And he always returned. His mother said to Ennis, she kept the room the way Jack had it when he was little boy, I think he appreciated that.
I do believe that the room, though austere, had some of the warmth and tenderness of Jack, and his mother. I certainly felt his presence the first time I saw this scene.
Deprivation made him more apprecaitive of the essential things in life, like the need to love and be loved.
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I can't believe after all this time that I've spotted something new in a scene...but I have. In the scene where Lureen's parents come to visit her and baby Bobby, there's a photo on the bedside table of Jack and Lureen, presumably taken on the night they met (judging by the clothes they're wearing) and they're both holding what I presume are winners cheques. Never spotted it before...but it's there.
I'll maybe try to find a screen cap of this at some point....
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I noticed that picture, too. :)
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Here's a cap of the picture
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi60.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh26%2FNoReins%2Fbrokebackmtn_1889.jpg&hash=61f4f5753e31de4c3848546d0a0f09faf437d9c2)
Looking at it now, I think it's actually trophies that they're holding, not cheques....
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If they're trophies, that's appropriate - Jack was a sort of trophy for Lureen. And so she was for him - and a way into a steady job, comfortable home, family and of course a way of hiding his true nature from the world.
You can imagine that when the picture was taken Jack just for once thought of himself as a winner.
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You can imagine that when the picture was taken Jack just for once thought of himself as a winner.
*o) but I think Jack thought of himself as a winner the moment Ennis came to him in the tent that second night....
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Aww, good point, NoReins. I totally agree! :)
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I can't believe after all this time that I've spotted something new in a scene...but I have. In the scene where Lureen's parents come to visit her and baby Bobby, there's a photo on the bedside table of Jack and Lureen, presumably taken on the night they met (judging by the clothes they're wearing) and they're both holding what I presume are winners cheques. Never spotted it before...but it's there.
I'll maybe try to find a screen cap of this at some point....
Yes, I did notice this. Thanks NoReins, for bringing this up. There was also that green (?) glass basket that I couldn't help noticing along with the picture.
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The colors and ornaments in this scene are so artificial/man-made looking, in contrast with the scenes on the mountain, too.