Brokeback Mountain Forum @ ennisjack.com
The Movie & Story => Characters, Quotes & Scenes => Topic started by: LisaM on Feb 16, 2006, 01:55 PM
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I have had a discussion with my cousin about Jack. In her opinion jack was just a player becasue of the Mexico scene and she feels he was doing every body. But my feeling is that he was trying to fill the need of not having Enis in his life and he was just lonely. Any thoughts?
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Hi IMO Jack DID find other ways of fulfilling the needs Ennis couldn't always provide-but Ennis was the only one he took mementoes from and kept for 20 years, for me this speaks volumes-the boy was in love xx :'(
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I agree. Ennis didn't need a lot of company, but Jack wasn't like that. He was obviously in love with Ennis, though.
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Jack was more experienced, yes. Was he a playa? no. If he was, he would not have stuck around for 20 years, driving all all those miles.
If you look closely in the Mexico scene, he doesn't look too happy.
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I think Jack's infidelity with other men adds balance - makes him seem just as flawed as Ennis, but in a different way. Also, it gives them equal stockpiles of unwanted ammunition. The reality of Jack with other men has just as much power to hurt as Ennis' refusal of the "sweet life".
Without balance, one cowboy wears the while hat and the other the black. In BBM, nobody was the bad guy - both were just so excruciatingly sad.
JB :(
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I think Jack's infidelity with other men adds balance - makes him seem just as flawed as Ennis, but in a different way. Also, it gives them equal stockpiles of unwanted ammunition. The reality of Jack with other men has just as much power to hurt as Ennis' refusal of the "sweet life".
Without balance, one cowboy wears the while hat and the other the black. In BBM, nobody was the bad guy - both were just so excruciatingly sad.
JB :(
Thanks JerBear. You said it perfectly. Despit each others flaw, they loved each other intensely. They knew each others flaws but overlooked it and loved each other. That is the best kind of love. If both were perfect, this story would not be so captivating.
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I have had a discussion with my cousin about Jack. In her opinion jack was just a player becasue of the Mexico scene and she feels he was doing every body. But my feeling is that he was trying to fill the need of not having Enis in his life and he was just lonely. Any thoughts?
Ennis was his true and first love....I really think he would have been stable and monogamous if Ennis could have been there for him. Jack wasn't playing around or messing around...he had a big lonely hole in his heart....and the human need for connection that he was trying to fulfill. Also, the trip to Mexico came only after he was turned away by Ennis after learning about the divorce. I think that was probably a turning point for Jack...on some level be began to let go of his dream of life with Ennis. :'( :'( :'(
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Jack is not a player, for sure!
He alwayz want a peaceful life with Ennis, but somehow Ennis can't accept two guys stay together... ...
He try to let Ennis go, but finally he found that his love for Ennis is so strong that he can't juz give it away!!
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I have had a discussion with my cousin about Jack. In her opinion jack was just a player becasue of the Mexico scene and she feels he was doing every body. But my feeling is that he was trying to fill the need of not having Enis in his life and he was just lonely. Any thoughts?
To slightly misquote a Motown classic:
'He might be cute, he's just a substitute... you're the permanent one'.
Pretty sure this is how Jack would compare his other dalliances with his love for Ennis.
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To slightly misquote a Motown classic:
'He might be cute, he's just a substitute... you're the permanent one'.
Pretty sure this is how Jack would compare his other dalliances with his love for Ennis.
Luv it!!!
'He might be cute, he's just a substitute... you're the permanent one'.
Thankx
Froggy
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Jack was more experienced, yes. Was he a playa? no. If he was, he would not have stuck around for 20 years, driving all all those miles.
If you look closely in the Mexico scene, he doesn't look too happy.
He looks downright miserable. If that's how you look when you're a player, celibacy would be a hot deal.
camom
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IMO, Jack is not a player.
Just think about 20 years of long distance relationship and love. Who else can top that for twenty years? If his love for Ennis makes him a player, gosh I am just nobody. :)
Also, don't forget that Ennis dated Cassie. That is what I probably would call someone a player.
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Well it think that he went to mexico as a way of revenge because he was so deeply sad with the fact that Ennis was afraid to be with him, i don't want to defend ennis but he was traumatized with the aspect that he saw when he was a kid, and when jack appears there he obviously got scared and jack in revenge went to mexico he was probably trying to find a way to forget him or at least substitute him for one night
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IMO, Jack is not a player.
Just think about 20 years of long distance relationship and love. Who else can top that for twenty years? If his love for Ennis makes him a player, gosh I am just nobody. :)
Also, don't forget that Ennis dated Cassie. That is what I probably would call someone a player.
Ethan - BINGO! Thank You!
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Jack was more experienced, yes. Was he a playa? no. If he was, he would not have stuck around for 20 years, driving all all those miles.
If you look closely in the Mexico scene, he doesn't look too happy.
I would have to agree.
Jack explored other loves only when he could not get enough of Ennis. Ennis would have sufficed...
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Jack was shagging other guys those four years before he and ennis were reunited (as per the short story), then off to Mexico when Ennis couldn't take the step and live with jack, and then again with Randall Malone. Short leashes and all that. Jack loved Ennis no doubt, but he needed more than Ennis was willing to give, so he found it as best he could. Sad really when they could have been so happy together had Ennis not bben so traumatised by the murder he saw as a child. So many people fail to live their own lives as they would choose, simply out of fear of what others will think or do. Sad, very sad. maybe we need to change that. Titus.
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Another thing, and I love the fact hte movie didn't talk about this and focussed on the imtimate lives instead, is the world was changing. It was the late 70's, early 80's when the movie ends. Now not a highly evolved time, but still the 60's were over, alternative lifestyles were becoming the norm. I am sure Jack went to movies and read the paper. Divorce was more common, so leaving Lureen may have seemed more normal. I mean it was still a homophobic time but not the 50's either.
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Each of the times we see Jack being unfaithful, like in Mexico as has been said before, he looks like he is just going throught the motions, there is no joy in his face. When Randall is sitting on the bench with him outside the dance, watch Jack's face....it's like OK then lets....no real passion.
Compare this to the reunion scene, unadulterated joy. It makes my heart soar for them. :D
When they meet down by the river and Jack is waiting, watch first his face as Ennis pulls up and then Ennis's face as he gets out the truck and looks at Jack. These boys are in love.
The Acting skills of Jake and Heath here is wonderful. It is a story but here those joyous expressions make me totally and utterly believe that these two men are in love. I forget at these two wonderous parts of this story that I am watching a movie.
The thing with Jack, he wants the love and the sex...he beleives he can get both from Ennis. I know that he knows Ennis loves him, but somehow it isn't enough. Totally wonderful, absolutely tragic, classically heartbreaking. :'(
Tom
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You're making me cry...
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Each of the times we see Jack being unfaithful, like in Mexico as has been said before, he looks like he is just going throught the motions, there is no joy in his face. When Randall is sitting on the bench with him outside the dance, watch Jack's face....it's like OK then lets....no real passion.
Compare this to the reunion scene, unadulterated joy. It makes my heart soar for them. :D
When they meet down by the river and Jack is waiting, watch first his face as Ennis pulls up and then Ennis's face as he gets out the truck and looks at Jack. These boys are in love.
The Acting skills of Jake and Heath here is wonderful. It is a story but here those joyous expressions make me totally and utterly believe that these two men are in love. I forget at these two wonderous parts of this story that I am watching a movie.
The thing with Jack, he wants the love and the sex...he beleives he can get both from Ennis. I know that he knows Ennis loves him, but somehow it isn't enough. Totally wonderful, absolutely tragic, classically heartbreaking. :'(
Tom
Wonderful post tombul - yes the joy on Jacks face watching Ennis unload the truck - fabulous moment for me, by this point first watching film i knew the demise of their relationship was going to kill me, and it did, and it has every time since. You've summed up the answer to this thread IMO, Jack WAS just existing playing out this life with these other lovers, only with Ennis did his love COME TO LIFE and satisfy him completely - how heartbreaking :'( :'( :'(
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Well it think that he went to mexico as a way of revenge because he was so deeply sad with the fact that Ennis was afraid to be with him (...)
The very same thought struck me too, matsuki. Jack had no intention of driving to Mexico at first, he just wanted to be with Ennis who was newly divorced. In the film, this is the first hint that Jack is looking for boyfriends elsewhere. But he isn't looking for a replacement for Ennis. Therefore, Jack is not a player. He has more intergrity than that. :)
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You know their first love scene is sort of ...innocent in a way. I mean Jack taking Ennis's hand like that. I mean didnt' he know that Ennis would take it away? So I mean a real player would have been more smooth than that.
I always find that so oddly sweet when he just pulls his hand over, it's Klutzy too...like Jack is.
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Toadily, I have always liked the look of Jack but I too always thought of him as a bit of a Klutz. Nothing definite but I always thought him slightly gormless in the short story. lovely but gormless. God even his father in law thought he was hopeless.
He was always more likely to act on an impulse than Ennis ever would. Ennis was always a creature of habit except when with Jack.
Tom
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My feeling is Jack just didn't fit in anywhere. He was a walking anacronism, or however you spell it. He would be fine in todays world but not then, and I don't just mean sexual preference. I mean the whole package, post war amercia with the 3.5 kids and the job, and two car garage.
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Well it think that he went to mexico as a way of revenge because he was so deeply sad with the fact that Ennis was afraid to be with him (...)
The very same thought struck me too, matsuki. Jack had no intention of driving to Mexico at first, he just wanted to be with Ennis who was newly divorced. In the film, this is the first hint that Jack is looking for boyfriends elsewhere. But he isn't looking for a replacement for Ennis. Therefore, Jack is not a player. He has more intergrity than that.
Jack's heart was broken by the only one he really loved. Who didn't have the courage to be with him always. The divorce bit broke his heart. He went to Mexico to find some comfort as best he could. :'( Titus.
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Jack was shagging other guys those four years before he and ennis were reunited (as per the short story), then off to Mexico when Ennis couldn't take the step and live with jack, and then again with Randall Malone. Short leashes and all that. Jack loved Ennis no doubt, but he needed more than Ennis was willing to give, so he found it as best he could. Sad really when they could have been so happy together had Ennis not bben so traumatised by the murder he saw as a child. So many people fail to live their own lives as they would choose, simply out of fear of what others will think or do. Sad, very sad. maybe we need to change that. Titus.
right on titus
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Well it think that he went to mexico as a way of revenge because he was so deeply sad with the fact that Ennis was afraid to be with him (...)
The very same thought struck me too, matsuki. Jack had no intention of driving to Mexico at first, he just wanted to be with Ennis who was newly divorced. In the film, this is the first hint that Jack is looking for boyfriends elsewhere. But he isn't looking for a replacement for Ennis. Therefore, Jack is not a player. He has more intergrity than that.
Jack's heart was broken by the only one he really loved. Who didn't have the courage to be with him always. The divorce bit broke his heart. He went to Mexico to find some comfort as best he could. :'( Titus.
Titus - That scene opened up the flood gates for me. Watching him cry as he drives away...god I was a mess. But thanks for your post because he was searching out comfort, and new he couldn't return home for that.
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But what's up with the guy that Jack chose in Mexico? He bore no resemblance to Ennis. If you believe the top/bottom philosophy that some do about Jack being the "catcher" in the relationship, then was that what he was looking for in the Mexican guy? The trick was a little soft - voice, appearance, etc. I was disappointed in Jack. It didn't fit the paradigm, at least in my mind, of what he had with Ennis.
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i just read the book and i can't change my mind about jack he wasn't a player he was so full of rage that he can't the live he would like to have and that when he thinks that he would be able Ennis allways push him back, the are some people that say "you get what you deserve" in this case Jack never got what he really deserve Ennis.
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But what's up with the guy that Jack chose in Mexico? He bore no resemblance to Ennis. If you believe the top/bottom philosophy that some do about Jack being the "catcher" in the relationship, then was that what he was looking for in the Mexican guy? The trick was a little soft - voice, appearance, etc. I was disappointed in Jack. It didn't fit the paradigm, at least in my mind, of what he had with Ennis.
I'm not convinced about the top/bottom dynamic-sure it must have been a factor at first, but I think over 20 years Ennis may have taken a walk on the wild side. As far as Jack going for the Mexican hustler, I don't think it mattered who was doing what. It was all about getting some dick. I think most of us have been there at some point. Titus.
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But what's up with the guy that Jack chose in Mexico? He bore no resemblance to Ennis. If you believe the top/bottom philosophy that some do about Jack being the "catcher" in the relationship, then was that what he was looking for in the Mexican guy? The trick was a little soft - voice, appearance, etc. I was disappointed in Jack. It didn't fit the paradigm, at least in my mind, of what he had with Ennis.
I'm not convinced about the top/bottom dynamic-sure it must have been a factor at first, but I think over 20 years Ennis may have taken a walk on the wild side. As far as Jack going for the Mexican hustler, I don't think it mattered who was doing what. It was all about getting some dick. I think most of us have been there at some point. Titus.
Remember, too, that we see exactly one sex scene...AND how believable would it have been if the tent scene roles were reversed? Who knows what happened down the road with those two. We only saw an initial glimpse.
As for the Mexican hustler, I think the one he chose was closer to the physical character of Ennis than the others we saw. Certainly not an Ennis in the bunch, but others struck me as even less like him....notably shorter, or more boyish, etc.
Jack went to Mexico in the dubious, desperate hope that sex would fill the hole just ripped in in his heart by love. That none of the hustlers were good physical substitutes for Ennis only punctuates the sad inadequacy.
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I've been wondering: Do you think Jack (knew he) was gay before meeting Ennis? Do you think he had had other lovers before? I had not thought so after my one viewing; but the more I think about it I wonder, was he checking out Ennis from the very first meeting? And the first tent scene (I think it's funny we refer to it that way), when he pulled Ennis' arm over him, it was as if he was doing it in his sleep, very naturally. He always seemed very calm about his feelings for Ennis, certainly never tortured the way Ennis felt for him.
And as far as Jack being a "player" I don't think so at all. I think maybe when he was younger, during those first few years before the reunion, he was sowing his oats, as young men often do. But once he reunited with Ennis, that was it, that was his one true love. Anyone else--Mexico, Randall, whoever--they were just substitutes, stand-ins for the one he really wanted but could not have.
Cara
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I think Proulx implies in the story that Jack had experiences before. Ennis not.
I don't think Jack knew he was gay, but acted on instinct (note the scene with
the rodeo clown, he just acted on his feelings to pick the guy up...) IN the end
he knew.
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The thing with Jack, he wants the love and the sex...he beleives he can get both from Ennis. I know that he knows Ennis loves him, but somehow it isn't enough. Totally wonderful, absolutely tragic, classically heartbreaking. :'(
Great comment, Tom! Jack is not a player. He simply wants to share life with Ennis whom he loves. If we ask Jack:" What would you prefer - 20 years with rare dates twice or 3 times a year or 2 years living together with Ennis day by day savouring your every moment together?" I think his answre is obvious.
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"I have had a discussion with my cousin about Jack. In her opinion jack was just a player becasue of the Mexico scene and she feels he was doing every body. But my feeling is that he was trying to fill the need of not having Enis in his life and he was just lonely. Any thoughts?"
Jack a player? No. He might've had many opportunities as he's the sort of guy who needs men in his life (more so than Ennis)... In my opinion the prostitutes of Mexico were surely of no importance (they're getting paid after all, and that's not what being a player is about, imo, and then he had some other guys like Randall, I assume there might have been more of the same kind).
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IMO Jack isn't a player. He loves Ennis totally, but realises that Ennis is never going to agree to live with him. Going to Mexico, like considering going "fishing" with Randalli, is just a poor substitute and an acknowldgement that he has to find sex, if not love, where he can. This doesn't impinge on his love for Ennis, which is bed-rock, firm, unyielding and eternal. And you're right, he looks grimly unexpressive both when he walks off with the Mexican and when he's listening to Randall - he doen't make eye-contact with either, but he does with Ennis -,maybe he'd rather not face ( literally and metaphorically) what he's doing. Ennis behaves similarly with Cassie - he finds it hard to look at her ands rarely smiles.Hisr eyes, like Jack's, want only to meet those of his other half.
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Each of the times we see Jack being unfaithful, like in Mexico as has been said before, he looks like he is just going throught the motions, there is no joy in his face. When Randall is sitting on the bench with him outside the dance, watch Jack's face....it's like OK then lets....no real passion.
Compare this to the reunion scene, unadulterated joy. It makes my heart soar for them. :D
When they meet down by the river and Jack is waiting, watch first his face as Ennis pulls up and then Ennis's face as he gets out the truck and looks at Jack. These boys are in love.
The Acting skills of Jake and Heath here is wonderful. It is a story but here those joyous expressions make me totally and utterly believe that these two men are in love. I forget at these two wonderous parts of this story that I am watching a movie.
The thing with Jack, he wants the love and the sex...he beleives he can get both from Ennis. I know that he knows Ennis loves him, but somehow it isn't enough. Totally wonderful, absolutely tragic, classically heartbreaking. :'(
Tom
IMO Jack isn't a player. He loves Ennis totally, but realises that Ennis is never going to agree to live with him. Going to Mexico, like considering going "fishing" with Randalli, is just a poor substitute and an acknowldgement that he has to find sex, if not love, where he can. This doesn't impinge on his love for Ennis, which is bed-rock, firm, unyielding and eternal. And you're right, he looks grimly unexpressive both when he walks off with the Mexican and when he's listening to Randall - he doen't make eye-contact with either, but he does with Ennis - maybe he'd rather not face ( literally and metaphorically) what he's doing. Ennis behaves similarly with Cassie - he finds it hard to look at her ands rarely smiles. His eyes, like Jack's, want only to meet those of his other half.
Tom and welshwitch - you managed to sum up between you exactly my thoughts on this. Thank you!
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"I have had a discussion with my cousin about Jack. In her opinion jack was just a player becasue of the Mexico scene and she feels he was doing every body. But my feeling is that he was trying to fill the need of not having Enis in his life and he was just lonely. Any thoughts?"
Jack a player? No. He might've had many opportunities as he's the sort of guy who needs men in his life (more so than Ennis)... In my opinion the prostitutes of Mexico were surely of no importance (they're getting paid after all, and that's not what being a player is about, imo, and then he had some other guys like Randall, I assume there might have been more of the same kind).
I had a similar conversation with my sister who saw the movie. Her reaction to the love story was "well, that Jack was certainly a player, wasn't he?" She said she thought it was clear Jack was making plans to be with Randall. Now I love me some Jack Twist, so I didn't want to have to hurt my sister! ;) I honestly don't think Jack went looking for some strange any chance he got. I assumed that after the reunion, he stayed loyal to Ennis (as far as men) until after the divorce scene where Ennis sent him home heartbroken. I felt so bad for Jack; I wanted to punch Ennis in the mouth for hurting Jack like he did. I almost couldn't blame Jack for looking for love in all the wrong places. I think Jack just got lonely over the years; desperate to be true to himself, even for a moment. Like he said to Ennis he needed it but hardly ever got it. So, maybe he hooked up with Randall for sex. Still doesn't make him a player to me. A player is someone who loves them and leaves them, no emotional attachments. Jack sure wasn't a player with Ennis; he loved that man with his whole heart and soul.
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"I have had a discussion with my cousin about Jack. In her opinion jack was just a player becasue of the Mexico scene and she feels he was doing every body. But my feeling is that he was trying to fill the need of not having Enis in his life and he was just lonely. Any thoughts?"
Jack a player? No. He might've had many opportunities as he's the sort of guy who needs men in his life (more so than Ennis)... In my opinion the prostitutes of Mexico were surely of no importance (they're getting paid after all, and that's not what being a player is about, imo, and then he had some other guys like Randall, I assume there might have been more of the same kind).
I had a similar conversation with my sister who saw the movie. Her reaction to the love story was "well, that Jack was certainly a player, wasn't he?" She said she thought it was clear Jack was making plans to be with Randall. Now I love me some Jack Twist, so I didn't want to have to hurt my sister! ;) I honestly don't think Jack went looking for some strange any chance he got. I assumed that after the reunion, he stayed loyal to Ennis (as far as men) until after the divorce scene where Ennis sent him home heartbroken. I felt so bad for Jack; I wanted to punch Ennis in the mouth for hurting Jack like he did. I almost couldn't blame Jack for looking for love in all the wrong places. I think Jack just got lonely over the years; desperate to be true to himself, even for a moment. Like he said to Ennis he needed it but hardly ever got it. So, maybe he hooked up with Randall for sex. Still doesn't make him a player to me. A player is someone who loves them and leaves them, no emotional attachments. Jack sure wasn't a player with Ennis; he loved that man with his whole heart and soul.
No, I wouldn't call Jack a player by any means.. it was nearly 20 years time between the first time he meets Ennis and when he meets Randall.
But we know Jack is no angel tho. I suspect he was getting what he could, albiet not much for the time and place, and he was in heaven when he finally got some of Ennis. Let's face it. Jack went after Ennis... at first subtley, then boldly. Good for him.
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I would defently agree that Jack wasn't angel or a saint..he had sex with other men in my opinion to fill the void when he coudln't be with Ennis..after feeling rejected so many times those other men were just spaces filling up a void for him. I think the other men were just for sex and thats it. With Ennis he felt love, compassion, friendship and a real sense of comfort and intimacy. The other men he didnt have that and probally only wanted that special intimacy with Ennis the one man he ever really loved and wanted to be with.
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I never felt Jack was a player, he was just trying to fill the empty hole in his soul. There's also the fact that Jack obviously had a much higher sex drive than Ennis did. Ennis struck me as almost being asexual, except when he was with Jack. Ennis had feelings for Jack, both emotionally and physically that he never had with anyone else. I never even felt that it was sex that drew Ennis to Jack. In spite of Ennis refusing to be with Jack on a permanent basis, I think that Jack's soul spoke to Ennis and drew him in, in spite of himself. To me, sex for Ennis was just a way to be closer to Jack, not even a real need, in and of itself. In spite of the passion in their reunion scene, I think sex was secondary to Ennis. He certainly never seemed to get much out of it with Alma or Cassie...only with Jack did he feel any sexual need at all. Sorry, got a little OT. I think of one thing, and it keeps rolling into other thoughts. Can't seem to stop myself, lol.
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That's all true, Donnaread, and in my experience one can be intensely sexual with one person and far less so, if at all, with another. I think Jack was just the one for Ennis, not just physically but as a friend and someone with whom he didn't have to pretend, and more importantly with whom he could laugh and joke, something he didn't do with anyone else. Evenif passion fades, liking and understanding and friendship last; Ennis's for Jack might have done so, but I'm not so sure about Jack. I don't think he's a player, just someone who needs sex far more than Ennis does, and who in every way, not just sexual, is unwilling to be stoical, so he's not stoical about Ennis's absence but tries to fill it, even when he knows this won't give him what he wants. Jack is much more egotistical than Ennis, and much more prone to think he's entitled to whatever - makes him much more "modern" in my eyes.
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. Jack is much more egotistical than Ennis, and much more prone to think he's entitled to whatever - makes him much more "modern" in my eyes.
I don't think Jack is egotistical exactly. He is just someone who is not willing to accept the status-quo. He goes after what he wants...Ennis just accepts things..."standing it" instead of trying to "fix it". Jack is always trying to "fix it" instead of "standing it".
Donna
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IMO Jack isn't a player. He loves Ennis totally, but realises that Ennis is never going to agree to live with him. Going to Mexico, like considering going "fishing" with Randalli, is just a poor substitute and an acknowldgement that he has to find sex, if not love, where he can.
Well, the thing is, I'm sure Jack had other reasons for going to Mexico, maybe even sexual ones played into it, though imo it's not the main reason, he's kinda looking down on the prostitutes and you see more anger than anything else on his face when he goes to them (the time he leaves Ennis and drives to Mexico). But it's a different thing with Randall... Of course nobody can be a substitute for Ennis, still, we can't forget that Randall was the guy Jack told his parents about, the one he wanted to live with on a ranch... So, it's not just sex with Randall.
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"I almost couldn't blame Jack for looking for love in all the wrong places. I think Jack just got lonely over the years; desperate to be true to himself, even for a moment. Like he said to Ennis he needed it but hardly ever got it. So, maybe he hooked up with Randall for sex. Still doesn't make him a player to me."
Hmm, wrong from an Ennis/Jack love story/one true pairing point of view - but else? (Of course, Randall is kinda the wrong place in a sense as the liaison with him gets him killed eventually (in the movie, haven't read the short story yet)but maybe not from an emotional pov)... He might have hooked up with Randall for sex, but I'm not so sure about that - I'm one of those thinking he might've felt more for Randall than Ennis/Jack die hard fans want to credit him for... The Mexicans are of course out of question, it's clear Jack doesn't feel much for them, well not anything you would call an attachment to a (non-prositute) short- or long term partner, and they're just some abnormal distraction he wouldn't wanna confront in the light of day.
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I don't think he's a player, just someone who needs sex far more than Ennis does, and who in every way, not just sexual, is unwilling to be stoical, so he's not stoical about Ennis's absence but tries to fill it, even when he knows this won't give him what he wants. Jack is much more egotistical than Ennis, and much more prone to think he's entitled to whatever - makes him much more "modern" in my eyes.
Hm, an intersting view of Jack...
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What I was playing with was the idea expressed in some reviews, etc, that Ennis with his taciturnity and stoicism represents the old West, while Jack represents the new, ready to change, compromise, move on, but underneath still wanting what made the old West what it was. In other words he's the modern neurotic, dissatisfied and restless - while Jack is the old world, less demanding and prepared to settle for what he can get. Or is this pushing it too far?