There are two times the word love is pronounced in the movie, I might be wrong.
Cassie: "girls don't fall in love for fun" :'(
Ennis, asking Alma Jr. "does Kurt loves you?" :'( :'(
The later one got my tears tonight.
There are two times the word love is pronounced in the movie, I might be wrong.
Cassie: "girls don't fall in love for fun" :'(
Ennis, asking Alma Jr. "does Kurt loves you?" :'( :'(
Yes. Chameau. That is what I can recall.
The later one got my tears tonight.
There are two times the word love is pronounced in the movie, I might be wrong.There's one more when Ennis introduces Jack to Alma, referring to his daughters: " Love them to pieces."
Cassie: "girls don't fall in love for fun" :'(
Ennis, asking Alma Jr. "does Kurt loves you?" :'( :'(
The strength of the film is, that those two can't say they love each other. And the film shows us why, all the time. The poignancy of the shirts would be much less if there had been avowals of love between Jack and Ennis somewhere. In this way we are kept in painful suspense, waiting and hoping for those words, but they never come. Poor Jack and Ennis, my heart breaks for them (again).Poor monicita! I know exactly how you feel though. In lots of ways i'm glad they never said it, it makes it all more sweetly painful. It didn't occur to me for quite some time after watching it that they hadn't said it, surely that must be a testament to how wonderfully the love has been shown so powerfully in the actions and declarations of Jack and Ennis. I don't need to hear them say it, i just know it IS. What a film.......
monicita
There are two times the word love is pronounced in the movie, I might be wrong.
Cassie: "girls don't fall in love for fun" :'(
Ennis, asking Alma Jr. "does Kurt loves you?" :'( :'(
Yes. Chameau. That is what I can recall.
The later one got my tears tonight.
When I heard Ennis asked Alma Jr. that question, I asked myself whether Ennis was wondering if Kurt could be "like" him. I think I am sure this movie makes you wonder that every married guy can be like Ennis and Jack.
my thought was that maybe he didn't want her to go through what her mother went through: to be involved with someone who would rather be with someone else; someone who could not give her the passion, the lust she ought to have; someone who could not commit to her; someone who would turn out to be a failure to her. you see, he couldn't love Alma like he loved Jack.
... I guess in the end Jack really did say I LOVE YOU by holding on to the shirts for all them years.
I kinda feel he does
"jack, i swear"
:)
Its one of the premises of BBM that the two men could not say to each other 'I love you'.
OMG its so hard to think of this!
Had they been said I think some of the power of the story and movie would have been lost.
Had they been said I think some of the power of the story and movie would have been lost.
Yes. This is so true. And the film is all the more powerful because of it.
Thanks, BBBOY.
Had they been said I think some of the power of the story and movie would have been lost.
Yes. This is so true. And the film is all the more powerful because of it.
Thanks, BBBOY.
Ditto!
I agree completely with all the speculation about the other ways in which Jack said I love you to Ennis--"I miss you so much I can hardly stand it," "It could be like this, just like this, always." And I think there are a couple of moments for Ennis, too, when he comes close--"Jack, I swear," as other people have suggested, and also maybe "I'm sending up a prayer of thanks." :) And I also agree that the movie is stronger without them actually uttering these words to each other. After all, consider what the story says: "He looked at the ensemble through a few stinging tears. 'Jack, I swear. . . ', although Jack had never asked him to swear anything and was not himself the swearing kind."
One of the only things that ever frustrated me about this movie (although maybe on reflection this is a good thing anyway) was that Ennis never says "little darlin" to Jack in the reunion scene, although he does in the book. In a way he's more communicative in the short story than in the film . . . .
Sorry, a bit off topic!
There are two times the word love is pronounced in the movie, I might be wrong.
Cassie: "girls don't fall in love for fun" :'(
Ennis, asking Alma Jr. "does Kurt loves you?" :'( :'(
JACK: "Tell you what... truth is sometimes I miss you so bad I could hardly stand it..."
Was almost a way to say I love you.
JACK: "Tell you what... truth is sometimes I miss you so bad I could hardly stand it..."
Was almost a way to say I love you.
yes it was .... :'(
JACK: "Tell you what... truth is sometimes I miss you so bad I could hardly stand it..."
Was almost a way to say I love you.
yes it was .... :'(
JACK: "Tell you what... truth is sometimes I miss you so bad I could hardly stand it..."
Was almost a way to say I love you.
yes it was .... :'(
of course it was....why Ennis didn't reply in this scene.... ?
JACK: "Tell you what... truth is sometimes I miss you so bad I could hardly stand it..."
Was almost a way to say I love you.
yes it was .... :'(
of course it was....why Ennis didn't reply in this scene.... ?
Because he didn't want to recognize it.
He could not to take note of a stable love affair with another man.
JACK: "Tell you what... truth is sometimes I miss you so bad I could hardly stand it..."
Was almost a way to say I love you.
yes it was .... :'(
of course it was....why Ennis didn't reply in this scene.... ?
Because he didn't want to recognize it.
He could not to take note of a stable love affair with another man.
And Ennis was still unable to express his feelings. He started once Jack died.
I Think in so many ways they both said I Love You
1-- The first night drunk or not the sex was love
2-- when they both say that they are not Queer well it must just be love.
3-- The second night when Ennis goes to enter the tent he removes his hat, jack takes the hat and set's it to the side just like a gentlemen entering a ladies home or room out in the west.
4-- When Ennis say he sorry after they kiss and jack says that all right , that all right come lay back and the ( I Love you ) start there.
5-- The next day in broad daylight when Ennis Knocks jacks hat off his head and jack starts chasing Ennis around and they fall into each others arms and they kiss again.
6-- When it was time to go Cowboy and jack lasso Ennis and they start play fighting and it goes aw air jack still try to show Ennis that he loves him by making sure hes alright.
7-- What can I say at the reunion after four years there has to be love You don't kiss some that much unless you do love them.
Plus there are at least maybe sixteen other times that you can say they might have said I love you but not in those words, but I will tell you though without those words this was the best and saddest love story since ( romeo and Juliet )
I think the first time Jack says "I love you" in other words is when he whispers "Ole Brokeback got us good, don't it?" in the motel. To me, he's acknowledging the fact that what they have together would not have stood the test of 4 years if it was just sex and not love.
I also think there's another time that Ennis all but says it - and that's when he says "Ain't no reins on this one" when I think he's admitting to having feelings far deeper than anything that can be constrained.
I think the first time Jack says "I love you" in other words is when he whispers "Ole Brokeback got us good, don't it?" in the motel. To me, he's acknowledging the fact that what they have together would not have stood the test of 4 years if it was just sex and not love.
I also think there's another time that Ennis all but says it - and that's when he says "Ain't no reins on this one" when I think he's admitting to having feelings far deeper than anything that can be constrained.
Yes, that's a great point. I also love it in this scene when Ennis says, "If you can't fix it, Jack, you have to stand it," after which Jack asks, "How long?" and Ennis replies, "As long as we can ride it"--before "ain't no reins on this one." To me, this suggests that he's committing, in a way, to some kind of long-term relationship with Jack.
JACK: "Tell you what... truth is sometimes I miss you so bad I could hardly stand it..."
Was almost a way to say I love you.
JACK: "Tell you what... truth is sometimes I miss you so bad I could hardly stand it..."
Was almost a way to say I love you.
That scene makes me cry to this day !!!
It was Jack's way of saying I love you.
I think Ennis knew it anyway.
JACK: "Tell you what... truth is sometimes I miss you so bad I could hardly stand it..."
Was almost a way to say I love you.
That scene makes me cry to this day !!!
It was Jack's way of saying I love you.
I think Ennis knew it anyway.
Welcome karen1129.
May of us here weep with you. You are in good company.
One of the only things that ever frustrated me about this movie (although maybe on reflection this is a good thing anyway) was that Ennis never says "little darlin" to Jack in the reunion scene, although he does in the book. In a way he's more communicative in the short story than in the film . . . .
JACK: "Tell you what... truth is sometimes I miss you so bad I could hardly stand it..."
Was almost a way to say I love you.
of course it was....why Ennis didn't reply in this scene.... ?
The thing is, I don't think Jack required a response from Ennis. I think just he knew in his gut what he meant to Ennis' and didn't have to hear it...aaawwwww :'(
The thing is, I don't think Jack required a response from Ennis. I think just he knew in his gut what he meant to Ennis' and didn't have to hear it...aaawwwww :'(
BUt I think that deep down he would have liked to have heard something
The thing is, I don't think Jack required a response from Ennis. I think just he knew in his gut what he meant to Ennis' and didn't have to hear it...aaawwwww :'(
BUt I think that deep down he would have liked to have heard something
Just my opinion but I think we all want to hear it. I think it is needed, no matter how much you think you know.
There're alot of ways to say I love you and I think your soulmate hears it with his heart not with his ears.
There're alot of ways to say I love you and I think your soulmate hears it with his heart not with his ears.
You are right, of course, danac. There are many ways to tell and show a person you love them. Jack did it when he told Ennis, "Sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it."
But, every so often, I would think I would like the hear the words. Maybe not daily, and not even weekly or monthly. Just every so often.
There're alot of ways to say I love you and I think your soulmate hears it with his heart not with his ears.
You are right, of course, danac. There are many ways to tell and show a person you love them. Jack did it when he told Ennis, "Sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it."
But, every so often, I would think I would like the hear the words. Maybe not daily, and not even weekly or monthly. Just every so often.
I 'd just like to hear it again in my lifetime! ;D
And a little slammin' up against a wall wouldn't be bad either!!!
That said, Patriot 1, I wish I could say "I love you" to you; I feel a sense of love for everyone on these forums, because we all have something in common, no, not just an obsession with BBM but a basic humanity.
should we create a how did Ennis express his love? thread??
Do we really need the words? That Ennis missed it until he found the shirts just goes to show you how much he was defended.
No we don't need the words- that is still part of the beauty of this story- that those specific words weren't said but they were there nonetheless.
No we don't need the words- that is still part of the beauty of this story- that those specific words weren't said but they were there nonetheless.
I'm surprised I never really replied to this back in the day. :s)
I know some of these have been mentioned as I did a quick skim of the thread but here goes: This is where I "hear" Jack's I love you's even if no words were spoken:
"Sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it"
Stroking Ennis's cheek after hearing the story of Earl-offering comfort though his offer was just shot down.
Driving all that way a few times a year to be with Ennis.
In the confrontation scene, despite unleashing decades worth of frustration and hurt he goes again to comfort Ennis.
His desire to have his ashes scattered on BBM.
"It could be like this, just like this always"
Telling Ennis he went back the next summer to ask about a job and facing Aguirre despite being made to feel like crap he still asked about Ennis.
Sending the reunion postcard
Let's not forget the biggie (IMO) the shirts <^( :\'( Holding Ennis inside of him for twenty years, needing to take Ennis's shirt in the first place to have some little piece of him. And in the end they were an I love you delivered from the grave. :\'(
And not that it was something that Ennis would be aware of but the Dozy Embrace- I love that passage so much, despite it being so bittersweet- holding onto that memory for twenty years- the shared and sexless hunger.
I know there's more I'm forgetting.
I think no one of them needed to say what they felt to show it better;in the movie thereŽre several gestures and actions that speak better than words.In any case, I'd make the question changing the name and writting Ennis instead of Jack.This last demonstrated along the years how deep was his love,but at the same time,he needed some proofs by the part of Ennis; some proofs that not always were in the way he had wanted,even sometimes were all the contrary.I think that when Jack arrived at the point of giving up was because he thought he was giving too much to receive too little.Of course,he didn't realise how difficult Ennis's position was-always denying,even himself...-and how he also wished the same things Jack was asking him,how divided he was between his duties and his feelings.But,however,I keep on saying that Ennis never say "I love you" to Jack in words and,much often than it'd be advisable,in acts.
The words did not have to be said but it would have been nice to hear them say it.I'd melt like a snowman in Florida! :*( <^( :c)
Yes, I guess it was "I love you" enough for them that it lasted whole 20 years... Still, just hear them words even once during that time would have taken all the doubt away.Yes,it's what I think.But also that sometimes-or better said,always-facts are in front of words.And all a life of denials and frustrations in Jack's dreams of them living together,deserved clearly a Love's demonstration in words,at least. %)
in my last posted i said i was morified that jack never said i love you but that was because i was in like the first stage of PBS, now looking back on it in hind sight i suppose in manyways actions speak louder then words true jack never said these three woeds "I LOVE YOU" but it was clearly written accross his face it was shown in all things he did i also feel this the same for ennis why say "i love you" when you can show it in such deeper ways.
One of my favorite Thomas More quotations is used in "A Man for All Seasons":
"God more regards the thoughts of the heart than the words of the mouth."
Anyone can say "I love you"; it's living it that's the real test.
He didn't and it is the power of this movie. Love doesn't need to be told!
I'm not sure if I posted this here before, I remember posting it in the Double meaning thread... Anyway, this is the closest Jack ever been about saying I love you to Ennis:
Truth is, sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it
This usually starts me up :\'(
Like it is now :\'( :\'( :\'(
***sigh***
Verbally, I do think this is the closest Jack ever got.
Non-verbally, it must be the look he gave Ennis as he was riding away after the Dozy Embrace.
I would agree with this also.
And imo Jack couldn't say "I love you" to Ennis. Look how hard it was for him just to say "Sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it." I think he knew Ennis's limitations as far as what he was willing to acknowledge about what their relationship really was. Deep down inside, they may have both known that what they felt was love, but until Jack died and Ennis found the shirts, I don't think he was willing to look that closely into his own heart and call that "thing" of theirs romantic love. Jack knew not to spook his horse with those direct words.
I also think that both of them 'said' I love you in a million other non verbal ways over the years, as has been discussed. And it is probably those things, especially knowing it was the only way they could say I love you to each other, that we find so endearing.
.....Jack knew he could'nt say it, nor did he have to. Not out loud, Ennis just could'nt handle hearing something like "I love You" from another man, ( Like FlowerChild says , a little too "direct") but I do feel that Ennis knew that this thing showed all the signs of it being love. What ever Ennis understands that to be. He named what they had and felt "this thing". He just was'nt gonna admit anything about it being love to himself or Jack. Jack kept coming back despite Ennis's denial. No matter how painful it must have been to know that Ennis, whom he loved, denied the part of himself that he knew loved him back. Jack understood Ennis much more than Ennis understood himself . That was something he could never let go of. Jack has always loved Ennis and I beleive Ennis always loved Jack though neither could name it love for different reasons., it remained unspoken. Even if Jack lived and never said "I love you" to Ennis verbally, Ennis felt loved by Jack and to him maybe that's all that mattered. MO. Thanx.
I guess love conquered all, in the end, even though it was too late for Jack. Ennis was freed by love, and I have no doubt he would have said it to Jack, if they were to meet up again after the break up. Ennis was ready, finally, to move to the next level.
The conversation with Jr. in the final scene does seem to indicate that Ennis would have said it, knowing what he now knew.i think so too :)
The conversation with Jr. in the final scene does seem to indicate that Ennis would have said it, knowing what he now knew.
i think so too :)
Yes,I think too Ennis was ready to express his feelings in loud voice;in spite of himself,if only it was before the fear of losing Jack.Or that any other man could take his place in his heart and bed,that's the same more or less...The cruel paradox of the story is that he decided to change his mind for fear too late,when he had already lost it for real...
But it wasn't too late to impart the truth of love to his daughter.
I also want to say that the 2 shirts in the closet can be interpreted as Jack telling Ennis there and then that he loved him. And I think Ennis understood.
Thanks MPJ. :)
So in a posthumous sense, we can say that Jack did say it -- via the shirts in the closet...
I think that finding the shirts of the closet was both of them way to say "I love you":Jack,by showing he had maintained a kind of altar to Ennis during all those years;Ennis,by discovering them at the same time that Jack's love for him and realising that "this thing" he felt was love too.A kind of silent love's statement,then. <^(<^(
Oh yes! I love these interpretations. <^(
I think that finding the shirts of the closet was both of them way to say "I love you":Jack,by showing he had maintained a kind of altar to Ennis during all those years;Ennis,by discovering them at the same time that Jack's love for him and realising that "this thing" he felt was love too.A kind of silent love's statement,then. <^(
Yes, I think when Ennis embraced the shirts when he found them in jack's closet, he was, through this very action, "saying" I love you to Jack.agreed!
So, would a number of us agree that Jack perhaps never said "I love you" verbally/explicitly, but in substance, he did?
So, would a number of us agree that Jack perhaps never said "I love you" verbally/explicitly, but in substance, he did?i think the majority of us would agree with this! i certainly do!
So, would a number of us agree that Jack perhaps never said "I love you" verbally/explicitly, but in substance, he did?
If this doesn't say "I Love You" what does? This goes beyond words.
I personally think that trh shirts were stronger and more meaningful than saying "I love you" verbally. Poeple can lie or not mean it when they say those words. The shirst and the blood don't lie.
I personally think that trh shirts were stronger and more meaningful than saying "I love you" verbally. Poeple can lie or not mean it when they say those words. The shirst and the blood don't lie.
Totally and utterly agree!!! So well said, Thomas!! (:) (:) (:) (:)
You know that saying, I don't know how to say it in English, but here is something like "You have prove things with facts, not with words".
Totally and utterly agree!!! So well said, Thomas!! (:) (:) (:) (:)
You know that saying, I don't know how to say it in English, but here is something like "You have prove things with facts, not with words".
I agree,Thomas¡.These are some proofs of love that are powerful than words;even if these words are real and true,sometimes are a little worn out.The actions is what matters and what means beyond any words. <^(
I think it is why I personally find Ennis more attractive because he speaks with his deeds, doing whatever he can for Jack whenever they were together. Jack was the talker, and a devoted lover, but Ennis was the quintessential cowboy, strong, reticent, and walked his talk. No need to say much, when there ain't much to say 'cept to do what needs doing. <^( Please don't flame me for not liking Jack more. I highlighted the word personally, and we are all entitled to it, no?
Ok, if I could add a scence...I would add a scene whereAmazing thought and it would make perfect sense..as jack is more expressive in his words....Ennis is expressive in his actions
I imagined if there would be a scene when they slept in a tent and Jack was holding Ennis from the back...
Ennis was sleeping.
In the middle of the night, Jack awoke and quietly told Ennis that "I love you" and fell back to sleep.
A few seconds later, Ennis opened his eyes, looked very sad in his eyes, longingly to reply but couldn't
then he went back to sleep...
I think this would kill Ennis if there was a flashback at the end in Jack's room.
Amazing thought and it would make perfect sense..as jack is more expressive in his words....Ennis is expressive in his actions
Very good point about Cassie's words to Alma Jr. Never thought of that before, but it is so true.
The words applied top Jr. can be applied to Ennis: you don't say much but you get your point across.
I think that Jack wasn't particularly more expressive in his words -- and I am not talking about his smooth talk as a salesman! ;) I think he is simply more expressive than Ennis. As I had said before, unlike Ennis, he wears his heart on his sleeve.
Yes, Jack is more expressive than Ennis...no doubt...Its more about feelings and what they feel is beyond words....they hardly spoke about their feeling...although Jack did speak of them more than Ennis..He did say that sometimes he misses him so much that he can hardly stand it..he also expresses his desire to live with Ennis...
I think Ennis was the most expressive in the last Scene of the film and also the scene in which they met after 4 years....
And I do think Jack was able to say "I love you" in so many other ways. Specifically, I remember the scene right after the Earl and Rich story -- where Jack touches Ennis's face: it is definitiely a wordless declaration of love.yes! agreed 100%. thats undeniably true!
And I do think Jack was able to say "I love you" in so many other ways. Specifically, I remember the scene right after the Earl and Rich story -- where Jack touches Ennis's face: it is definitiely a wordless declaration of love.
And I do think Jack was able to say "I love you" in so many other ways. Specifically, I remember the scene right after the Earl and Rich story -- where Jack touches Ennis's face: it is definitiely a wordless declaration of love.
yes! agreed 100%. thats undeniably true!
Yes,I agree one more time¡But the two of them had many other ways of saying "I love you" to the other; even if,in Ennis case specially,they didn't know it and accept it.
That scene was really soothing when Jack touched Ennis face....thats so true...also the scene when Ennis and Jack fight in the end.....there is love as well as pain in that...
Not in words, but in actions. As I mentioned earlier, driving 14 hrs. one way to meet up with Ennis-only to find that his dream had been shattered. Letting him know how much he missed him. Bringing up the subject of the cow/calf operation twice to Ennis, and also to his parents. SNIT.
Definitely: not by words, but by gestures/actions. The 14-hour drive is so meaningful in this context. It speaks more strongly than a flat-out declaration of love.so true....what all must be going through his mind with the excitement of meeting Ennis during the 14 hour drive....its really deep....
Yes, one can gauge the determination and the intensity of Jack's desire simply by contemplating that long drive... If there is any proof of affection, this has to be one of them... No words required.well that depends..honeslty I am a very verbally expressive person as well as I express through deeds and I speak my heart out ..so I can understand that some people expected things to be more verbal..
Still, I guess some of us would want it verbalized -- as a kind of affirmation?
well that depends..honeslty I am a very verbally expressive person as well as I express through deeds and I speak my heart out ..so I can understand that some people expected things to be more verbal..I know what you mean,since I'm also a very verbally expressive and sincere person; and this kind of people often need to hear what they already know-or they should know...-with acts and gestures,no?.But you're right in that we need to see things from Ennis and Jack's perspective,putting ourselves in their shoes according to their time and circumstances.IMO,to say "I love you" would have been for them as a further step,a kind of affirmation,as Thomas says?.It would surely have been,as it's for us when we need to hear it,as I said before.And Ennis specially wasn't prepared to admit all what there's behind this phrase.They connected,yes,but they had very often an undeniable and unbearable lack of verbal communication,and we have plenty of examples.
but now we need to see things from their perspective...Ennis and Jack were not people who were very verbally expressive by nature...but they were the ones who through their actions could connect and communicate..its wonderful as to how some people can have such a connection...Ennis and Jack surely did...
I know what you mean,since I'm also a very verbally expressive and sincere person; and this kind of people often need to hear what they already know-or they should know...-with acts and gestures,no?.But you're right in that we need to see things from Ennis and Jack's perspective,putting ourselves in their shoes according to their time and circumstances.IMO,to say "I love you" would have been for them as a further step,a kind of affirmation,as Thomas says?.It would surely have been,as it's for us when we need to hear it,as I said before.And Ennis specially wasn't prepared to admit all what there's behind this phrase.They connected,yes,but they had very often an undeniable and unbearable lack of verbal communication,and we have plenty of examples.so true....I think they could not express in words what they felt....it was something which in their generation was rear and so they could not get the right words.....
I think that in some of the most important moments of our own lives, we are speechless. :)wonderfully stated thomas!
What they lacked in verbal expressiveness, they compensated via more than expressive actions/gestures -- no matter how clumsy and uncomfortable they appeared to be. True feelings can't be hidden, and no matter how awkward we are at expressing feelings, they find theri way to the heart of things.
wonderfully stated thomas!
Id like to add most men I have know haven't used them three words. I think "I love you" for many men round these parts at least would be to revealing and castratin if shot down, affections not returned. The good ones will work like a horse to prove they do. But them words. What is it about them words.
Thanks Matt. :)
I think it's because a lot of men think that it puts them in a position of emotional vulnerability. Many don't appreciate their being vulnerable on that score.
I know what you mean,since I'm also a very verbally expressive and sincere person; and this kind of people often need to hear what they already know-or they should know...-with acts and gestures,no?.But you're right in that we need to see things from Ennis and Jack's perspective,putting ourselves in their shoes according to their time and circumstances.IMO,to say "I love you" would have been for them as a further step,a kind of affirmation,as Thomas says?.It would surely have been,as it's for us when we need to hear it,as I said before.And Ennis specially wasn't prepared to admit all what there's behind this phrase.They connected,yes,but they had very often an undeniable and unbearable lack of verbal communication,and we have plenty of examples.true...there was alot of silence between them...probably they kept it silent as the truth was too hurting to deal with...I mean they hardly met each other and could not give each other alot of time..then they were married and all...and so much had to be spoken..but they chose to supress al that and spend quality time together and keep their feelings alive
true...there was alot of silence between them...probably they kept it silent as the truth was too hurting to deal with...I mean they hardly met each other and could not give each other alot of time..then they were married and all...and so much had to be spoken..but they chose to supress al that and spend quality time together and keep their feelings aliveYou're right. :) When one doesn't have something to say,or telling the truth is too hard to listen to,is better to shut up...And even more when someone has so much to "say" with their silents,their glances and all their corporal language as Ennis and Jack.
You're right. :) When one doesn't have something to say,or telling the truth is too hard to listen to,is better to shut up...And even more when someone has so much to "say" with their silents,their glances and all their corporal language as Ennis and Jack.Awwwwwww......I couldnt agree more ;D.....they had so much non verbal gestures to emote that the verbal language was just not appropriate for them.....so many ways they have conveyed to eacch other that they love each other....those actions and gestures have more love than any word
Awwwwwww......I couldnt agree more ;D.....they had so much non verbal gestures to emote that the verbal language was just not appropriate for them.....so many ways they have conveyed to eacch other that they love each other....those actions and gestures have more love than any word
Thank you,dear¡ ^f^ I agree completely with you,specially in the phrase I've remarked.What I'add is that,unluckily,very often the love in their actions,gestures and glances didn't correspond itself with a verbal communication to put into words that love,and specially,what they were going to do with it. I don't know if this makes sense... ???what I can imply with what u have said is that their non verbal gestures and actions could not get congrunet words..the words and actions dint go in one direction...they were poles apart...
Yes,I agree again,Thomas¡ It's the still"unhealed" fear of many man to look like women,being too vulnerable,showing too much their innest feelings like a broken shield.And in Ennis and Jack's case,more still,because-I'm quoting myself,sorry...-it would be an further step that perhaps they weren't prepared to give.
what I can imply with what u have said is that their non verbal gestures and actions could not get congrunet words..the words and actions dint go in one direction...they were poles apart...They weren't 100% poles apart,but there was a real grasp between what their gestures,glances and actions said and what their words said...And I can't agree more with what you say that a heart to heart talk would have been very necessary between them in order to clarify things.
even though actions speak volumes and did in their case I wish once they had a heart to heart talk ( not fight..what happened in the climax between them)...that would have made things more flexible.....
They weren't 100% poles apart,but there was a real grasp between what their gestures,glances and actions said and what their words said...And I can't agree more with what you say that a heart to heart talk would have been very necessary between them in order to clarify things.exactly....there was a slight gap between the words and actions...I guess we can learn that in our own lives we can aviod hurt by having a converstaion :)
the lack of words was a strength at the beginning when they had started falling in love and it was all new..that time their expressions and touch spoke volumes...when everything was getting a little complicated after 20 years..Ennis kids and wife., Jacks family and all, that time I felt they should have been more communicative and receptive because so much was happening in their lives and they needed each other..hoewever this lack of words made them supress so much of pain... :(
I largely agree with your distinction, smartestsonia. To be sure, I think the root of the problem was trying to evade the real issues. This is in line with what I said elsewhere: that Jack should have perhaps been moere insistent or even confrontational in the later period. Had he done the equivalent of grabbing Ennis's hand (as in the FNIT) would Ennis have seen the light, I wonder?I think Jack was more insistent in the FNIT and ya in the early stage of their relationship when he wanted them to live togeter and all.....then both of them just let things be as it is after 4 years..both with their wives and kids and all and just meeting up once in a while on the mountain...the distance increased more after 10 years and they just let things be..I feel jack also was kinda scared of losing Ennis as he knew how scared Ennis was..so he just held on whatever he got....finally all the frustration of them being apart from so long came out when they fought at the end of the film and Jack said that he wish he could quit him....this is what happens when u supress feelings for long :(
If Jack never verbally said "I love you" to Ennis, it was most likely because he though it would have freaked him (Ennis) out. This agrees with what you say -- that Jack was scared of losing Ennis, so he tried not to antagonize or disturb him in any way. Is this the general concensus? And I suppose both of them would have thought such a declaration to be unbecoming -- perhaps effeminate?
If Jack never verbally said "I love you" to Ennis, it was most likely because he though it would have freaked him (Ennis) out. This agrees with what you say -- that Jack was scared of losing Ennis, so he tried not to antagonize or disturb him in any way. Is this the general concensus? And I suppose both of them would have thought such a declaration to be unbecoming -- perhaps effeminate?
But we know how lover are -- wnating to be reassured, if only verbally...
Do you remember the "violent" kiss in Maurice (the movie), and the resulting "rejection"? This is the same danger one faces with a verbal declaration of love -- the danger of making oneself vulnerable. Certainly, silence after such a declaration can be construed as to vagyue and/or enigmatic. Such a declaration can be uncomfortable to both parties...
Yes,Durham rejected Maurice's kiss because it made him feel vulnerable and uncomfortable; too physical...The same than a verbal declaration could make Ennis feel the same; too emotional,perhaps?...
If they'd uttered the little three words, I'm pretty sure they would come over as being superfluous, redundant...that is how palpable their love was...it was best left unsaid, no need to say it. The lack of hearing it compounded the love, in my opinion.quite possibly very true.:)
If they'd uttered the little three words, I'm pretty sure they would come over as being superfluous, redundant...that is how palpable their love was...it was best left unsaid, no need to say it. The lack of hearing it compounded the love, in my opinion.
If they'd uttered the little three words, I'm pretty sure they would come over as being superfluous, redundant...that is how palpable their love was...it was best left unsaid, no need to say it. The lack of hearing it compounded the love, in my opinion.
Words had been superfluous when speaking about love in a more direct way refers; a greater quantity of words,however,had been rather necessary in their case speaking about a solution for their common future.This,for me,has been a main love's declaration in its moment than a thousand "I love yous".
Words become superfluous if there is a clear and abiding understanding/connection between the two. But in other aspects, there was confusion. They were sure of each other's love, I think. But words would have helped in clearing the air around the peripheral issues -- like how best to live in that love.