Brokeback Mountain Forum @ ennisjack.com
The Movie & Story => Characters, Quotes & Scenes => Topic started by: Toadily on Jan 05, 2006, 01:44 PM
-
I heard a critiscm of it but i thought they aged them very well. I heard they wanted Jack
to age more cause he was more openly frustrated in his life, plus I was thinking although
Ennis was lonely he did get to live alone where Jack had to keep up this life with Lureen
and that can be harder.
I mean in that last scene they defintely look late 30's to me.
-
I heard a critiscm of it but i thought they aged them very well. I heard they wanted Jack
to age more cause he was more openly frustrated in his life, plus I was thinking although
Ennis was lonely he did get to live alone where Jack had to keep up this life with Lureen
and that can be harder.
I mean in that last scene they defintely look late 30's to me.
It is too difficult to age Gyllenhaal. They did the best they can, in my opinion, but the mustache did not look convincing. However, watch for the subtle paunch developing on Jack's middle. It is a wonderful detail that Proulx herself brought up in her essay that accompanied the screenplay.
The slight changes in hairstyles are very well done, especially in the last shot of Jack (when he sees Ennis leaving on their last meeting.) Also, pay special attention to the hairstyles of Lureen and her mother. (Especially her mother's: priceless!)
Ledger definitely looked older later in the film. It had as much to do with his subtle acting adjustments as with the make-up.
-
You know i can see people put off by the stash but as someone who well remembers the 70's
men did look like that, look at Welcome Back Kotter look or Room 222, it almost looks fake
but it was the look, think Burt Reynolds.
-
think Burt Reynolds.
Ewwwwew! I never quite liked him!
Cannot wait to see Jack's belly and Heath's white-ish hair!
-
The short story says Jack got a paunch but Ennis stayed thin, which fits their lifestyles.
And the movie stayed true to that.
-
Toadily and frog123,
A friend of mine had said jokingly that they should have just left Gyllenhaal as he is, without an attempt to age him. I personally think the attempt to portray Jack aging was successful as a whole.
I mention the last scene because you get two different views of Jack (age 19 versus age 39) in quick succession, since his last shot comes after the embrace flashback. You get an appreciation for the attempt at aging once you see this juxtaposition.
In his last shot, Jack/Gyllenhaal is superbly world-weary and worn out. The NY Times reviewer put it best: you see in his face a lifetime of hope blurring with a lifetime of disappointment. Indeed, very wonderfully said...
-
I think they could have done more facially to age them, but I liked Jake's little belly. Very believable, overall, although they still looked fairly young.
-
Well you know 39 isn't that old really! Jon Stewart is 43!
-
Aha! Something that I can add. I read an interview last week by Mr. Ledger who spoke specifically to this "aging" question. He was very deliberate in trying to age Ennis, not through physical attributes because age 19 to 39 would not offer much in the way of aging. Rather, Leger tries to age Ennis through his clinch-fisted voice. Ledger worked very carefully through the film to progressively change Ennis's voice so that as he sounds younger and more audible on BBM, presumably the audience can make out most of what he says. But as you move through the film, it becomes more and more difficult as his voice becomes less understandable. I forget which interview I saw on the web, but Ledger talked at length about working on the accent, voice inflection and gradual disintegration in his audibility. He paralleled the transformation in voice to Ennis's being more progressively closed and withdrawn over time. This continues to reinforce the significant and compelling "investment" Ledger delivered to this role...
That being said, this means everyone on this forum needs to go back to the theater (for the nth time) and now listen astutely for this change in Ennis's voice through the course of the film...not that I'm twisting anyone's arm to convince in going back. Just another thing to watch for....
stationbbm
-
In the last scene of the movie, you can see that Ennis was *really* aged but not in a fake way. When they close up on his face, his skin is all grainy and not smooth/youthful which I thought was a really good, subtle way to age him.
The Jackstache is priceless. I can't get enough.
-
I'm partial to the stash cause i grew up in the 70's! It was a hideous look realy but it brings it all back to me.
the whole mr Kotter thing, remember that episode of friends when they had Ross have a stash? I mean that gets
a big laugh cause we know!!!
-
I'm partial to the stash cause i grew up in the 70's! It was a hideous look realy but it brings it all back to me.
the whole mr Kotter thing, remember that episode of friends when they had Ross have a stash? I mean that gets
a big laugh cause we know!!!
That episode was hillarious!
Poor Ross...he looked so cool! Way.......no way!
-
Aha! Something that I can add. I read an interview last week by Mr. Ledger who spoke specifically to this "aging" question. He was very deliberate in trying to age Ennis, not through physical attributes because age 19 to 39 would not offer much in the way of aging. Rather, Leger tries to age Ennis through his clinch-fisted voice. Ledger worked very carefully through the film to progressively change Ennis's voice so that as he sounds younger and more audible on BBM, presumably the audience can make out most of what he says. But as you move through the film, it becomes more and more difficult as his voice becomes less understandable. I forget which interview I saw on the web, but Ledger talked at length about working on the accent, voice inflection and gradual disintegration in his audibility. He paralleled the transformation in voice to Ennis's being more progressively closed and withdrawn over time. This continues to reinforce the significant and compelling "investment" Ledger delivered to this role...
That being said, this means everyone on this forum needs to go back to the theater (for the nth time) and now listen astutely for this change in Ennis's voice through the course of the film...not that I'm twisting anyone's arm to convince in going back. Just another thing to watch for....
stationbbm
Agreed! I'm watching it with 2 friends on Saturday, and with 5 friends on Sunday. :)
Yes, Ledger appears to have put in a great deal of work doing a graduated change in voice, tone, and actions so as to simulate an aging Ennis. He almost mumbles inaudibly in the end, except when passion is demanded (as in the case of the final meeting), in which case, you get the impression that he was about to explode (like a dam about to give way) with all the pent-up feelings/emotions he just could not express/release.
You really get the impression that he has quite literally aged 20 years in this film.
-
Yes look at his body language, he is slouching more too.
I can tell the voice changes, clearly with both of them.
-
Was Gyllenhaal's mustache fake or did he really grow one for these scenes.
I though it was an obvious fake. But I really don't know...
If we do not arrive at a quick consensus, then I shall have to pose this question as a separate thread (consider this a threat!) ;D
-
I believe it's real - he has very thick dark hair and usually guys like that are able to grow thick bushy beards/moustaches ;)
-
Was Gyllenhaal's mustache fake or did he really grow one for these scenes.
I though it was an obvious fake. But I really don't know...
If we do not arrive at a quick consensus, then I shall have to pose this question as a separate thread (consider this a threat!) ;D
Dunno...will search the web for info!
-
Was Gyllenhaal's mustache fake or did he really grow one for these scenes.
I though it was an obvious fake. But I really don't know...
If we do not arrive at a quick consensus, then I shall have to pose this question as a separate thread (consider this a threat!) ;D
Dunno...will search the web for info!
hmm I always thought it was real... though maybe I am just bad at spotting fake moustaches?
-
I believe it's real - he has very thick dark hair and usually guys like that are able to grow thick bushy beards/moustaches ;)
He perpetually sports a face stubble! He certainly could have grown one pretty easily... ;)
-
It might be fake cause they don't shoot in sequence. Like I heard the first scene they shot
was the one where Jack turns up after hearing about the divorce! Did anyone hear this too, I wil try to
verify. If that is so that is wild!
-
It might be fake cause they don't shoot in sequence. Like I heard the first scene they shot
was the one where Jack turns up after hearing about the divorce! Did anyone hear this too, I wil try to
verify. If that is so that is wild!
What I gathered from some of the interviews is that they did most of the sex/kissing scenes early on. Not sure which scene they did first. Do verify. :)
-
Cannot find any mention of a fake moustache on the internet...could be a real one!
Shall we ask on Jake Gyllenhaal's official website?
-
Shall we ask on Jake Gyllenhaal's official website?
A zillion people have probably asked him this. Why not? Irritating him a bit more wouldn't hurt at this point. They might have already posted it on his website!
-
Shall we ask on Jake Gyllenhaal's official website?
A zillion people have probably asked him this. Why not? Irritating him a bit more wouldn't hurt at this point. They might have already posted it on his website!
What...do you mean there are other BBM addicts around?
No way!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
It might be fake cause they don't shoot in sequence. Like I heard the first scene they shot
was the one where Jack turns up after hearing about the divorce! Did anyone hear this too, I wil try to
verify. If that is so that is wild!
I can answer this question. The very first scene they shot according to Ledger was the fight that he had with Alma in the kitchen. He commented that he thought it was strange to have to "start" with being older and then work backwards to the younger BBM scenes. Not sure of the logic but Lee was calling the shots on which scenes were to be filmed in what sequence. The reason that Ledger remembers this so vividly is because I think he and Gyllenhaal were joking out loud about how they would start with easier scenes with fewer lines and fewer dramatic requirements (i.e., the first seven minutes where nothing is said), but Lee walked by their trailer and laughingly told Ledger that he'd be doing the kitchen scene with Michelle as the first shot, requiring him to then get his head into a completely different scene, different emotion, different everything.
stationbbm
-
It might be fake cause they don't shoot in sequence. Like I heard the first scene they shot
was the one where Jack turns up after hearing about the divorce! Did anyone hear this too, I wil try to
verify. If that is so that is wild!
I can answer this question. The very first scene they shot according to Ledger was the fight that he had with Alma in the kitchen. He commented that he thought it was strange to have to "start" with being older and then work backwards to the younger BBM scenes. Not sure of the logic but Lee was calling the shots on which scenes were to be filmed in what sequence. The reason that Ledger remembers this so vividly is because I think he and Gyllenhaal were joking out loud about how they would start with easier scenes with fewer lines and fewer dramatic requirements (i.e., the first seven minutes where nothing is said), but Lee walked by their trailer and laughingly told Ledger that he'd be doing the kitchen scene with Michelle as the first shot, requiring him to then get his head into a completely different scene, different emotion, different everything.
stationbbm
Wow, that is amazing they are able to get into character that quick. Well maybe it was such a damn rellief to finish filming the aging sequences they were more able to create this idylic Brokeback later!
-
I can answer this question. The very first scene they shot according to Ledger was the fight that he had with Alma in the kitchen. He commented that he thought it was strange to have to "start" with being older and then work backwards to the younger BBM scenes. Not sure of the logic but Lee was calling the shots on which scenes were to be filmed in what sequence. The reason that Ledger remembers this so vividly is because I think he and Gyllenhaal were joking out loud about how they would start with easier scenes with fewer lines and fewer dramatic requirements (i.e., the first seven minutes where nothing is said), but Lee walked by their trailer and laughingly told Ledger that he'd be doing the kitchen scene with Michelle as the first shot, requiring him to then get his head into a completely different scene, different emotion, different everything.
stationbbm
Thanks stationbbm for the information.
Lee must have had some reason for filming this pretty dramatic scene first...
-
Toadily and frog123,
A friend of mine had said jokingly that they should have just left Gyllenhaal as he is, without an attempt to age him. I personally think the attempt to portray Jack aging was successful as a whole.
I mention the last scene because you get two different views of Jack (age 19 versus age 39) in quick succession, since his last shot comes after the embrace flashback. You get an appreciation for the attempt at aging once you see this juxtaposition.
In his last shot, Jack/Gyllenhaal is superbly world-weary and worn out. The NY Times reviewer put it best: you see in his face a lifetime of hope blurring with a lifetime of disappointment. Indeed, very wonderfully said...
Hey TPE---
I read this a few days ago and had difficulty finding it, but finally located it. I found this quote from the NYT very interesting and I have been thinking about it. What's your take? Do you really feel that at their last encounter in 1983, Jack's face showed "a lifetime of hope blurring with a lifetime of disappointment?"
-
Hey Toadily and Frog,
I didn't mean to leave you out of the discussion either since TPE addressed his comment to you. Feel free to comment as well.
Pleasant dreams!
Liam56
-
Hey TPE---
I read this a few days ago and had difficulty finding it, but finally located it. I found this quote from the NYT very interesting and I have been thinking about it. What's your take? Do you really feel that at their last encounter in 1983, Jack's face showed "a lifetime of hope blurring with a lifetime of disappointment?"
Hello Liam56. I do love this statement from the NYT review! I do think that at that moment, both hope and disappointment coexisted in Jack. I am aware that a number of people think that at that point, Jack had lost hope on Ennis and was ready to move on and share a life with another person. But I think the NYT comment is closer to how I feel: Jack never lost hope even if he was always inevitably disappointed. This is why I love the character of Jack so much. He was less complex than Ennis, but he gives all of us hope. Let be Let be.
-
Thanks Liam56 and TPE:
This does capture it for Jack in the final scene with Ennis. 20 years of 14 hour each-way drives to/fro Wyoming to be with someone you love for only a long weekend at best; I can't help but think it had to be an awful rollercoaster ride in thinking that someday "his hope" might become a reality...how painful, how lonely, how broken, how frustrating. To pour yourself heart and soul into someone, only one somone, and then never be able to realize your dream for that relationship. Just rips your heart out. This may be shallow to say, but, in some respect, it's too bad Joe Aguirre didn't say at the outset: "Ya know. I'm sorry guys. I've already rounded up two hands to help me out this summer up on Brokeback. Keep me in mind for next summer." A different set of circumstances would have brought about a different result? Hindsight is 20/20. No one deserves that kind of hurt.
stationbbm
-
Thanks Liam56 and TPE:
This does capture it for Jack in the final scene with Ennis. 20 years of 14 hour each-way drives to/fro Wyoming to be with someone you love for only a long weekend at best; I can't help but think it had to be an awful rollercoaster ride in thinking that someday "his hope" might become a reality...how painful, how lonely, how broken, how frustrating. To pour yourself heart and soul into someone, only one somone, and then never be able to realize your dream for that relationship. Just rips your heart out. This may be shallow to say, but, in some respect, it's too bad Joe Aguirre didn't say at the outset: "Ya know. I'm sorry guys. I've already rounded up two hands to help me out this summer up on Brokeback. Keep me in mind for next summer." A different set of circumstances would have brought about a different result? Hindsight is 20/20. No one deserves that kind of hurt.
stationbbm
stationbbm, thanks for the great comments.
I think it is not shallow at all to have hoped that Ennis and Jack would have been spared all the heart-ache.
BUu I would also like to think that along with the hope and disappointment, Jack also nourished a lifetime of love -- enough to fill out several ordinary lifetimes, I dare say.
-
sorry, tpe but...baloney! He missed out on true happiness and on sharing his life with the one person he truly loved.
that's what broke my heart about this movie. That's why I didn't leave the theater in a jovial mood but felt drained...
Poor Ennis doesn't have enough love from those weekends to last him a lifetime. That is, it depends what he does in the future with the love that he received from Jack...
-
sorry, tpe but...baloney! He missed out on true happiness and on sharing his life with the one person he truly loved.
that's what broke my heart about this movie. That's why I didn't leave the theater in a jovial mood but felt drained...
Poor Ennis doesn't have enough love from those weekends to last him a lifetime. That is, it depends what he does in the future with the love that he received from Jack...
All's fine garc1978. We don't have to agree exactly about this.
To me, you can love without the beloved loving back. It does not make your love any less real or intense. If you can love deeply, then there is some happiness there. It may not be a fulfilled happiness. But it is happiness nonetheless. :)
-
Yes look at his body language, he is slouching more too.
I can tell the voice changes, clearly with both of them.
In my 5th viewing, I paid more attention to their aging. I think they age pretty well in general. I agree with Toadily that 39 is not really that old. Ledger is amazing in his portrayal of Ennis, especially after I have seen his interview with Leno and GG. I appreciate his performance even more. When you compare the first scene they met to the last scene together, you will notice the difference. After the "embrace from behind" scene and when Jack watched Ennis driving away, Jack looks terribly old - I would say at least over 40.
The only complaint - (not really a complaint because there is nothing I dislike about BBM) is Jack's belly. It just looks it is padded.
-
Yes look at his body language, he is slouching more too.
I can tell the voice changes, clearly with both of them.
In my 5th viewing, I paid more attention to their aging. I think they age pretty well in general. I agree with Toadily that 39 is not really that old. Ledger is amazing in his portrayal of Ennis, especially after I have seen his interview with Leno and GG. I appreciate his performance even more. When you compare the first scene they met to the last scene together, you will notice the difference. After the "embrace from behind" scene and when Jack watched Ennis driving away, Jack looks terribly old - I would say at least over 40.
The only complaint - (not really a complaint because there is nothing I dislike about BBM) is Jack's belly. It just looks it is padded.
I think that the gut looked a little overdone. Ennis' lambchops were a little furry looking and Jacks. mustache little waxy, but I was so engrossed in them that I only came to these conclusions on the third viewing.
And ...Jack looks terribly old - I would say at least over 40. What's that supposed to say about those of us who are 45?
Jim
-
And ...Jack looks terribly old - I would say at least over 40. What's that supposed to say about those of us who are 45?
Jim
Dear Jim, no offense. ;) I was saying compared to the age of 39, it was terribly older than that. After all, beauty is in the eyes of beholder. ;) I am catching up with you.
-
Ethan:
No offense taken. I knew what you meant. It just caught my cat's tail...
Jim
-
Ethan:
No offense taken. I knew what you meant. It just caught my cat's tail...
Jim
You are also one of the greatest - age is irrelevant in this regard. :)
-
Ethan:
No offense taken. I knew what you meant. It just caught my cat's tail...
Jim
You are also one of the greatest - age is irrelevant in this regard. :)
Jim: I'm with you....these folks who are under 40 seem to be wanting to make a big deal about those who are OVER 40. If memory serves me, didn't Ethan just have a birthday this week? Pray, I think 40 will see him soon enough.... ;)
stationbbm
-
Jim: I'm with you....these folks who are under 40 seem to be wanting to make a big deal about those who are OVER 40. If memory serves me, didn't Ethan just have a birthday this week? Pray, I think 40 will see him soon enough.... ;)
stationbbm
stationbbm, you know...how can we have this forum without you? ;) I thought 30 was serious enough - maybe 40 is the really mark. I say..hey 40 here I come so I can join your guys league. I will just do more facial treatments. ;D
-
Hey TPE---
I read this a few days ago and had difficulty finding it, but finally located it. I found this quote from the NYT very interesting and I have been thinking about it. What's your take? Do you really feel that at their last encounter in 1983, Jack's face showed "a lifetime of hope blurring with a lifetime of disappointment?"
Hello Liam56. I do love this statement from the NYT review! I do think that at that moment, both hope and disappointment coexisted in Jack. I am aware that a number of people think that at that point, Jack had lost hope on Ennis and was ready to move on and share a life with another person. But I think the NYT comment is closer to how I feel: Jack never lost hope
even if he was always inevitably disappointed. This is why I love the character of Jack so much. He was less complex than Ennis, but he gives all of us hope. Let be Let be.
Hey TPE--
Thanks for your comments. That last scene always gets too me when Jack embraces Ennis and makes that comment, "Let be . . . let be." It's as if he were saying, "Yeah, it's been a rough ride; I want more, but there arre no reins on this relationship. Let's just enjoy what we have." Ennis may have ahad a lot more anger and was much more complex than Jack, but there was this love that both shared for each other, enough to last twenty years from a mere couple of weeks a year. Even after 20 years Jack could say, "You know, sometimes I miss you so much I just can barely stand it." Disappointed yes, but still in love. An absolutely beautiful scene, yer heart wrenching.
-
Ennis didn't age well though, did he.
It is a distraction for me when I watch the movie. Graying hair, severe wrinkles around the eyes, walks gingerly as if he is 80, slowed down movements.... and he was only 40 or 41.
And, there is something else that makes me sad for Ennis. And it didn't come from the movie or story or screenplay; it came from the author during an interview. Annie P. said that there is a high rate of suicide among older single men in Wyoming. I can't help but wonder if that is Ennis' fate and I get sad. I wish Annie hadn't said that.
-
I read an interview with Larry McMurtry and Diana Ossana that they don't believe Ennis would have committed suicide. Here's what they said:
According to Proulx, Wyoming has the highest suicide rate in the country—and most of those suicides are elderly single men. Did you two imagine Ennis’s future at all?
Ossana: I think Annie has a story somewhere about Ennis as an older man, and he winds up moving in with Alma Jr.
McMurtry: I don’t think Ennis would kill himself.
Ossana: He’s too tough. That would be a sign of weakness, and it would leave a memory of him as being weak, and I don’t think he would want that. But I do think that Ennis knows that people probably know that he’s homosexual, and emotionally [at the end of the film] I think he makes a tiny bit of progress, because he agrees to attend Alma Jr.’s wedding. Finally he compromises—
McMurtry: And doesn’t disappoint a woman.
Ossana: It’s the first time in the film that he doesn’t disappoint someone, male or female. It’s a tiny baby step, but he does it. I just don’t know how much [more] he’s capable of changing. I think if anything, he might become even more homophobic and bitter because of what he did, what he gave up, what he lost, what he’ll never have.
The rest of the interview is here: http://www.advocate.com/currentstory1_w.asp?id=25277&page=1
-
I think their aging was effective and for the most part convincing except for the scene with Jack and Randall on the bench. I've posted this elsewhere but in that scene Jack looks exactly like Lily Tomlin when she does that sleazy male lounge singer who's name completely escapes. I have to smile when I see that scene. It's the only time I can't buy Jack being in his mid-30's.
-
Not to commit sacrilege, but if there's any area where BBM deserves criticism, it's makeup. When it's so bad that you notice it, then it's bad! :P Like the scene of Ennis in the phone booth, the makeup under his eyes is supposed to look like bags and wrinkles. Instead, it just looks like he's got two splotches of makeup on his face.
There are little, annoying distractions like that in the movie, and I often wish they had known that BBM would be a $100-million movie; maybe they would have spent a few million more making it. Of course, Ang has said that the shoestring budget was very liberating for him, as he was never concerned with making BBM look like a big-budget epic. So, I'll take a fantastic movie with crappy makeup over a crappy movie with fantastic makeup any day! 8)
-
Not to commit sacrilege, but if there's any area where BBM deserves criticism, it's makeup. When it's so bad that you notice it, then it's bad! :P Like the scene of Ennis in the phone booth, the makeup under his eyes is supposed to look like bags and wrinkles. Instead, it just looks like he's got two splotches of makeup on his face.
There are little, annoying distractions like that in the movie, and I often wish they had known that BBM would be a $100-million movie; maybe they would have spent a few million more making it. Of course, Ang has said that the shoestring budget was very liberating for him, as he was never concerned with making BBM look like a big-budget epic. So, I'll take a fantastic movie with crappy makeup over a crappy movie with fantastic makeup any day! 8)
Yep,... ;)
-
Yes look at his body language, he is slouching more too.
I can tell the voice changes, clearly with both of them.
In my 5th viewing, I paid more attention to their aging. I think they age pretty well in general. I agree with Toadily that 39 is not really that old. Ledger is amazing in his portrayal of Ennis, especially after I have seen his interview with Leno and GG. I appreciate his performance even more. When you compare the first scene they met to the last scene together, you will notice the difference. After the "embrace from behind" scene and when Jack watched Ennis driving away, Jack looks terribly old - I would say at least over 40.
The only complaint - (not really a complaint because there is nothing I dislike about BBM) is Jack's belly. It just looks it is padded.
Ok from one of the senior citizens here (43) ::) ;D....think about this.
These guys lived in a different time and place...and a rough and tumble one at that. Annie Proulx makes it a point that they are a product of that era and physical/cultural landscape and couldn't escape it. They both lived pretty frustrated and unhappy lives...Jack drank a lot (Lureen confirms that for us)....both smoked...Ennis had back breaking jobs. Because of all these things I think they not only aged physically, which is shown pretty well, but most of all aged emotionally and spiritually...these guys were VERY tired and worn at 39. If you watch their acting I think that really shows throug with both.
-
I am 57 going on 8.
We should all age as well as those two.
In the immortal words of Indiana Jones: "It ain't the years, its the mileage."
-
I am 57 going on 8.
We should all age as well as those two.
In the immortal words of Indiana Jones: "It ain't the years, its the mileage."
I love that line, thanks for sharig RAB.
-
And ...Jack looks terribly old - I would say at least over 40. What's that supposed to say about those of us who are 45?
Jim
Dear Jim, no offense. ;) I was saying compared to the age of 39, it was terribly older than that. After all, beauty is in the eyes of beholder. ;) I am catching up with you.
I know what you mean, it's not in years it's more in that he is bitter and a hard drinker and looks tired.
I also really noted how Jake made his voice age too. When he says "I did once" to Ennis's
question of do you have a better idea, it's an old man. Sad and burnt out.
I guess to me that padding didn't look too bad, I have a friend who has the same kind of paunch
and yes it looks fake but believe me it's real.
-
Considering Heath and Jake were 24 and 23 respectively during the filming, I thought the aging was done well for the most part. The few make up flaws I noticed seemed to be with Jake. I noticed in the final camp scene his sideburns were more pronounced. In fact I thought he looked really good in this scene (pant! pant!). I wasn't as impressed with the make up job for their final scene together. It seems as thought he lost some of the sideburn action.
The only inconsistency I spotted with Heath's make up was during a brief clip of him tossing hay. Prior to that scene his character had already grown noticeable sideburns. During this clip he didn't appear to have the sideburns. He looked younger than he should have been at this point.
Just an observation.
(yes, I like sideburns and pornstaches! :P)
-
Ennis didn't age well though, did he.
It is a distraction for me when I watch the movie. Graying hair, severe wrinkles around the eyes, walks gingerly as if he is 80, slowed down movements.... and he was only 40 or 41.
that is old cowboy---too much weather, too many accidents, and getting slammed against things by ornery animals, and too much on and off rough stock, and saddle time.
Old cowboys generally have arthritis in knees, hip and spine--and always walk slightly hunched, and do stairs one step at time, like they have to pull themselves by the hand rail.
I know alot of guys that look that who did the same type work as Ennis, out feeding and doctoring in the winter-changes your appearance.
-
Ennis didn't age well though, did he.
It is a distraction for me when I watch the movie. Graying hair, severe wrinkles around the eyes, walks gingerly as if he is 80, slowed down movements.... and he was only 40 or 41.
that is old cowboy---too much weather, too many accidents, and getting slammed against things by ornery animals, and too much on and off rough stock, and saddle time.
Old cowboys generally have arthritis in knees, hip and spine--and always walk slightly hunched, and do stairs one step at time, like they have to pull themselves by the hand rail.
I know alot of guys that look that who did the same type work as Ennis, out feeding and doctoring in the winter-changes your appearance.
Add to that sorrows and discontent, that would have surely done him over, a broken heart is the worst thing a person can endure, makes the process of aging due to misfortune must faster
-
It seems like a lotof people really dislike facial hair on men. I've had a beard for 30 years, and just a moustache before that. I thought it was great how Ennis and Jack , even though they weren't in Berkeley or New York, were influenced by popular culture. I think almost all men, in the 70's, had at least longer hair over their ears, or sideburns. I think Jacks moustache looked real and the scene where he watches Ennis drive away is the best one showing how Jack had aged. Natalia, love you calling it a Jackstache....being a lover of facial hair, I thought Jack was at his most manly handsome with the stache.
-
Oh, almost forgot. They were in Wyoming and even back then cowboys smoked pot. I'm glad Annie Proulx included that in the story, cause it shows how pop culture eventually creeps into the hinterlands. But I am glad that Jack & Ennis didn't have love beads or bellbottom Wranglers!
-
It seems like a lotof people really dislike facial hair on men. I've had a beard for 30 years, and just a moustache before that. I thought it was great how Ennis and Jack , even though they weren't in Berkeley or New York, were influenced by popular culture. I think almost all men, in the 70's, had at least longer hair over their ears, or sideburns. I think Jacks moustache looked real and the scene where he watches Ennis drive away is the best one showing how Jack had aged. Natalia, love you calling it a Jackstache....being a lover of facial hair, I thought Jack was at his most manly handsome with the stache.
Thanks for this post. As a lover of men with facial hair I have to agree with your comments on Jack's aging. I liked his profile when he said "truth is...sometimes I miss you so much, I can hardly stand it." They did a good job with him in that scene.
-
Sorry for the short-but-sweet reply...
I didn't like Jack with the 'stache, LoL. It just didn't look good on Jake. A little stubble would've been okay, just not such a thick 'stache!
-
After the "embrace from behind" scene and when Jack watched Ennis driving away, Jack looks terribly old - I would say at least over 40.
That's exactly the moment I thought something like "How old he looks!".
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi77.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj66%2Ffranny19%2Fend.jpg&hash=b725f727a9df34a4422e8813a91939438fed9fcf)
We must consider that having 40 years in the 60's - 70's it's not the same as having this age nowadays (have a look at our parents' pictures for istance), but mostly Jack looks "old" for all the frustration, resignation, disillusion, tiredness he expresses in this shot.
-
I remember reading somewhere that he was meant to look very old for his age. I think they did a good job, though. I didn't notice how much older they both looked until the flashback scene. I mean, they obviously looked older, but I didn't notice such a stark contrast.
It's like watching Six Days and Seven Nights right after watching Star Wars. Oh my God, Harrison Ford is melting!!
-
I didn't notice how much older they both looked until the flashback scene. I mean, they obviously looked older, but I didn't notice such a stark contrast
Same here.
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi77.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj66%2Ffranny19%2Fjj.jpg&hash=f54ec1dc7f90f782861503c9eb9f26cbec646caf)
-
After the "embrace from behind" scene and when Jack watched Ennis driving away, Jack looks terribly old - I would say at least over 40.
That's exactly the moment I thought something like "How old he looks!".
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi77.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj66%2Ffranny19%2Fend.jpg&hash=b725f727a9df34a4422e8813a91939438fed9fcf)
We must consider that having 40 years in the 60's - 70's it's not the same as having this age nowadays (have a look at our parents' pictures for istance), but mostly Jack looks "old" for all the frustration, resignation, disillusion, tiredness he expresses in this shot.
Looks damn old??? I think as they "aged" him he looked better and better....we was a pretty boy, but I muched preferred the handsome "man" he became!
-
they defently did a good job aging him..just looking at the two pics of Jake..you defently see a huge difference..the first one Jack has a dreamy look about him, a hopeful look for what he hopes will happen with Ennis..the second picture shows his aging, his frustrations and that dreamy look is gone..the youthfull look of longing and hope is no longer there..his whole person changes..wow what a huge difference 20 years can make..they defently did a good job aging Jack..
-
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi77.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj66%2Ffranny19%2Fend.jpg&hash=b725f727a9df34a4422e8813a91939438fed9fcf)
Looks damn old??? I think as they "aged" him he looked better and better....we was a pretty boy, but I muched preferred the handsome "man" he became!
Absolutely Rod! I agree 100%. I can honestly say that this movie made me realize I am not a dirty old man. I like mature men. Of course the young ones aren't completely off my list. (https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbestsmileys.com%2Fevil%2F3.gif&hash=1829f954f2560c286b2f5a22e76805346ba636f4)
-
Jake is GORGEOUS as young Jack AND older Jack. I think Jake has the type of face that will age gracefully. I am not so sure about Heath though. He's a goodlooking guy now, but I hope he doesn't age like Frank Sinatra did ::) Donna
-
I didn't consider the aging of the characters until after a few viewings when i got really analytical. personally i think the aging is the only flaw of this great film- not convincing at all. In fact, I saw the movie again with my sister 2 days ago and afterwards was saying how my favorite scene was the last time Ennis and Jack were together with the ensuing flashback. "Flashback?!" she said- she didn't even realize it cut to Ennis and Jack's time up on Brokeback 20 years earlier! PS. i suggested she see an eye doctor. Also how young did Jack look in the scene with Randall and himself on the bench?!- like a teenager!!!
-
Ok, I think this is the closest thread I can find to kind of bring this up, which it does fit because of how they look and all, but more so the change in accents.
Alright, here goes. Jack and Ennis on one of their meetings, it's where they are talking about Jack says Lureen is good at making deals and why make money because you pay it all out. His accent is so thick, his voice so much higher, totally different. Then you see their last meeting together, and while it's still there, it's not as pronounced. I don't know, it's hard to explain in words what I mean, lol. But Jack just all of a sudden got a much thicker accent with a higher voice. Has anyone touched on this or thought about it or noticed it.
And, in my opinion, Ennis aged much more gracefully than Jack. I didn't like the moustache very much. But that's only cuz I don't like them in real life, lol!!
But anyway, I think their aging was pretty right on target. They showed their age well, and right about what I think they would look like in their late 30's :)
Ann
-
I had a bit of a prob with the aging initially; the muttonchops were a leeetle overdone I thought, but I guess they were pretty prevalent in the mid-2-late '60's ( I myself was then in the mid-2-late single digits age range, so I cant definitively say)...
Ledger was certainly the more difficult of the 2 to age (natural blondes being such :P); they did a prett good job on Gyllenhaal throughout; the salt-n-pepper thing he had goin on in the brief scene when they were sleeping 2gether in the tent was very attractive...by the end of the movie, they pretty much had Ledger up to speed; the laff lines around his eyes looked good, and even the little bit of jowliness they had him sporting seemed appropriate...
I find as I watch the movie again, the overall aging on both was okay, just not Oscar-calibre...but who really cares? I'd gladly trade that for the music, cinematography, and direction awards the movie got instead...but don't EVEN get me started on BBM losing to Traffic...I'm gonna go to that discussion to vent...and vent I most CERTAINLY shall...
Oh...one last aging thought...Gyllenhaal is a bit rough-around-the-edges lookin anyway; Ledger is more of a "pretty boi"...when you consider that, one would presumably have an even better appreciation for the job they did on Ledger...
-
But Jake has a more youthful look, I think it must have actually been harder to age him.
-
But Jake has a more youthful look, I think it must have actually been harder to age him.
I think you are right. I was most impressed with his make up for the profile when he said "sometimes I miss you so much..." He really did look 40ish in that scene.
-
I think the ageing worked really well. Pretty believable IMO. Loved the tash lol, it was great!!! Prefer him when he was 19/20 though - more attainable ha ha ha! ;D ;D ;D
-
I wish we'd seen more of the "Jack with hair grey at the temples" look shown briefly when they were asleep with Ennis curled round behind Jack, because I thought Jake looked older there, rather than with the moustache, which I tend to associate with San Francisco and the eighties thing.
Whereas Heath acted withhis voice, I thinkl Jake acted with his face - Heath's changing voice does work, but Jake's face expresses exhaustion and near-hopelessness - it's in his eyes.
Incidentlaly, as far as the speech about inflation is concerned, Jack was talking about his Texas life and therefore reverted to a Texas way of speaking - plenty of people - I'm one - have more than one accent. One of my Scottish friends grew up speaking Doric ( weird lingo form NE Scotland) - sometimes when he wasn't thinkiong he reverted to it and became totally incomprehensible. I reckon in Texas Jack tried to match the register of LD and his friends/customers, as he does in the "selling the tractor " sequence. Using Texas speak when with ennis is another sign of his aging; Texas is starting to dominate because that's where he's spent so long.
-
I don't like the way they aged Ennis, although it was probably pretty realistic...dry looking around the eyes, because he was supposed to have spent a lot of time out of doors in all weather. Jack on the other hand, I think they did a marvelous job. I think he is his most handsome in the black leather when he's dancing with LaShawn. Gawd, but that man is gorgeous :o! And, yes, after the flashback scene when they show "older" Jack, he is so disillusioned, no longer with hope of ever having a life with Ennis. I call it his "beat down" look. I can see Jake Gyllenhaal ageing beautifully. I've heard two different people say they can see him as James Bond in a few years. I think he will age gracefully, like Sean Connery. What a man!
Donna ;)
-
I don't have much to add about the Ennis and Jack. I wish the makeup flaws hadn't been pointed out upthread; that made me notice Heath's makeup in the latter scenes... Not pleasant.
However, I did notice one very odd moment. During the terrible phone call, Lureen looks much much much too young. Her hair is fine, and her eyes are pained... but her skin on her face is that of a young woman. No way she's 35 or 38. (When they meet she doesn't seem that much younger than Jack).
I could also see Lureen growing a tiny bit of a mustache by her mid thirties.
Alma seemed okay, to me. Of course, we don't see her after 1977.
And Jr... wow! she *really* looked older every time we saw her... incredible!!
>
>
>
>
;D
-
I love the older Ennis and Jack, and I don't care to critique the make-up jobs too closely. I think they did a good job, for the most part. Ennis's aging was really good, especially considering a life outdoors and his health habits and such, which showed on his skin. And the frustration of their love and their lives. Jack, too -- in this pic, I think he looks so incredibly sexy I can hardly stand it. I'm older than they were when they were "older." 39-40 is but a babe, excuse me. Not quite reaching your prime. Also, because of growing up in that era, I love the moustache. The men in my family and other men in my life all had moustaches. Very suitable for Jack.
Anyway, these are my favorite pics of them older. They certainly did an excellent job on their parts, as far as acting older. Both of the men, Heath and Jake, really got absorbed into the characters, didn't they? This Jack (in pic below) -- there is not one hint of Jake in him. And I think he's exquisite. And exquisitely sad...
Though I also totally adore the young Ennis and Jack (and Heath and Jake).
kathy
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi72.imagethrust.com%2Fi%2F60906%2Fbrokebackmtn1901.jpg&hash=adfe93f85eb4cfec0c2c402a7d3f66b9584e4da1)
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi72.imagethrust.com%2Fi%2F60907%2Fbrokebackmtn2142.jpg&hash=0e03881b8c2a4b4fec65208a2273d934c6983d0e)
-
I love your post Kathy!! As one who appreciates the "mature" man, I must say that both characters were incredibly attractive in the latter parts of the film. I'd pounce on both of them!
-
I love your post Kathy!! As one who appreciates the "mature" man, I must say that both characters were incredibly attractive in the latter parts of the film. I'd pounce on both of them!
I think the aging thing was probably the hardest part of the movie and they didn't have the best makeup artist but I just overlook that aspect. Those two boys age in their heads and but it on the screen and that's enough for me.
-
I love your post Kathy!! As one who appreciates the "mature" man, I must say that both characters were incredibly attractive in the latter parts of the film. I'd pounce on both of them!
Okay -- you pounce, I'll watch!
kathy
-
I love your post Kathy!! As one who appreciates the "mature" man, I must say that both characters were incredibly attractive in the latter parts of the film. I'd pounce on both of them!
Okay -- you pounce, I'll watch!
kathy
You bet! ;)