Brokeback Mountain Forum @ ennisjack.com
The Movie & Story => Characters, Quotes & Scenes => Topic started by: honestjoe1959 on Feb 26, 2006, 09:59 PM
-
any takes on why ennis didn't care to 'take no precautions,' given how far behind in the bills they were?
alma was just trying to be practical; she wasn't saying she didn't want to be intimate.
was he trying to punish alma? it backfired.
-
any takes on why didn't care to 'take no precautions,' given how far behind in the bills they were?
alma was just trying to be practical; she wasn't saying she didn't want to be intimate.
was he trying to punish alma? it backfired.
I'm surprised they still had intimate relations, Alma knowing Ennis was cheating on her for years with another man. It's 1975, the boys re-united in 1967. That's some "fishing trips" in between 1967 and 1975. Men, at those times, left the "precautions" to their wives. Hem, it's 2006, I wonder if things changed that much for women, taking care of the "precautions". My bet, they were even too poor for Alma taking "the pill". That's one tough scene of the movie and, a turning point. I felt so bad for Alma... and Ennis.
-
any takes on why didn't care to 'take no precautions,' given how far behind in the bills they were?
alma was just trying to be practical; she wasn't saying she didn't want to be intimate.
was he trying to punish alma? it backfired.
I'm surprised they still had intimate relations, Alma knowing Ennis was cheating on her for years with another man. It's 1975, the boys re-united in 1967. That's some "fishing trips" in between 1967 and 1975. Men, at those times, left the "precautions" to their wives. Hem, it's 2006, I wonder if things changed that much for women, taking care of the "precautions". My bet, they were even too poor for Alma taking "the pill". That's one tough scene of the movie and, a turning point. I felt so bad for Alma... and Ennis.
Annie Proulx talked of how she noted many of the gay men in areas like Montana had kids and wives, (not that they don't elsewhere too but she notes that they are more into families and kids) I do wonder what those relationships are like, I mean do they start to live like brother and sister?
-
I also interpret Alma's comment less pragmatically. Although she was being practical, she was also trying to protect herself, I would assume. At that stage of their failing marriage, Alma did not want the added complication of another 'bond' (i.e., another child) that would tie her with Ennis.
-
When Alma made this statement, she already knew her husband was being intimate with another person. I just assumed she was afraid of catching a VD.
-
Actually, out there, she probably didn't know any thing about vd---wasn't something on anyone's consciousness back then, rates were so low out there, wouldn't have been a consideration even.
that open consciousness of the diseases came mid 60s when more of guys started coming home from Nam, and the hippie movement was in full swing.
Doubt very much that Alma even knew much about the pill---it didn't come to rural areas any too fast-early 60s you were just hearing about it being approved and available, and that was in the cities---and you had to find a doctor who would be sympathetic to your case, cause not all of them would prescribe it to just anyone.
ANd you would have had to find a pharamacy to fill it. Alma would not have had easy access to any of those. Or the money to afford it.
Some guys just don't want to use rubber==Ennis sounds like one of them. It was the cheapest and easiest attainable birth control there was out in rural places. But kids didn't bother him, and since they were married, he figured it didn't matter---she was the practical one though no question.
First and 2nd times I saw this---the most audience reactions of gasping out loud came not from the sex scenes, but when Alma says this to Ennis---very few of the people that were at the first screening I went to could even concieve of someone saying that to their spouse.
-
Now you all have got me wondering! Upon my 4th viewing, I found myself waiting for this moment in the film as it hit me on first viewing as one of those lines that just crash into your skull and leaves you thinking.....maybe it's a way of showing Alma's pragmatism: she is concerned about making ends meet. And possibly the line reflects Ennis' unrealistic laisser faire attitude about the connection between more babies and financial survival; after all, the film shows Ennis at his most loving and natural with the children. But the line also comes across as a bit cruel with an implication that Ennis is looking for an excuse to discontinue sexual relations with Alma. What do you think?
-
Now you all have got me wondering! Upon my 4th viewing, I found myself waiting for this moment in the film as it hit me on first viewing as one of those lines that just crash into your skull and leaves you thinking.....maybe it's a way of showing Alma's pragmatism: she is concerned about making ends meet. And possibly the line reflects Ennis' unrealistic laisser faire attitude about the connection between more babies and financial survival; after all, the film shows Ennis at his most loving and natural with the children. But the line also comes across as a bit cruel with an implication that Ennis is looking for an excuse to discontinue sexual relations with Alma. What do you think?
It is possible, but I tend to think that Ennis was genuinely sad about the inevitable divorce (seeing the tears in his eyes). Ennis probably needed the sex anyway, given Jack's unavailability most of the year and Ennis's unwillingness to have sexual relations with any other man or woman except with Alma and Jack.
I would hazard that Ennis was never really a thinker in this regard. Poverty suited him fine. He did not worry to much in advance as far as money was concerned...
-
But the line also comes across as a bit cruel with an implication that Ennis is looking for an excuse to discontinue sexual relations with Alma. What do you think?
I would hazard that Ennis was never really a thinker in this regard. Poverty suited him fine. He did not worry to much in advance as far as money was concerned...
Interesting topic, and such fine remarks. I too was devastated when I heard the line on first viewing. I can relate to Ennis : he stopped all of a sudden. Quite a shock to hear that. But he doesn't contest it. He cares enough about Alma to not take the risk, but I do think his reply was equally sharp : "I'll be happy to leave you alone." Ennis couldn't get Jack out of his mind.
-
But the line also comes across as a bit cruel with an implication that Ennis is looking for an excuse to discontinue sexual relations with Alma. What do you think?
I would hazard that Ennis was never really a thinker in this regard. Poverty suited him fine. He did not worry to much in advance as far as money was concerned...
Interesting topic, and such fine remarks. I too was devastated when I heard the line on first viewing. I can relate to Ennis : he stopped all of a sudden. Quite a shock to hear that. But he doesn't contest it. He cares enough about Alma to not take the risk, but I do think his reply was equally sharp : "I'll be happy to leave you alone." Ennis couldn't get Jack out of his mind.
Yes, Ennis's reply in the movie was sharp. I also recall that the reply in the screenplay was different -- even sharper, if I recall correctly...