Brokeback Mountain Forum @ ennisjack.com
The Movie & Story => News Coverage, Reviews & Awards => Oscars => Topic started by: matt78 on Mar 06, 2006, 04:41 AM
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Sorry this is not coming from a bad place but I just saw Crash yesterday on DVD...
What a simplistic, unimaginative stereotypical movie!
There were moments of good acting but the dialogue was AWFUL!
I think that it was the LA-centered nature of this film that made it win. Can anyone from the East Coast even relate to the gun toting madmen in this awful film? Does nobody else hear how stupid lines like "sometimes we crash into each other just so we can feel something" are? Ugh! Barf!
I could take Brokeback losing to Capote or Walk the Line but CRASH?!?!? ???
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I didn't seen Crash. Anyway I'm not so surprised. I think how political aspect could played some role...
coguaro
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Sorry this is not coming from a bad place but I just saw Crash yesterday on DVD...
What a simplistic, unimaginative stereotypical movie!
There were moments of good acting but the dialogue was AWFUL!
I think that it was the LA-centered nature of this film that made it win. Can anyone from the East Coast even relate to the gun toting madmen in this awful film? Does nobody else hear how stupid lines like "sometimes we crash into each other just so we can feel something" are? Ugh! Barf!
I could take Brokeback losing to Capote or Walk the Line but CRASH?!?!? ???
i really appreciated "crash" and i think the line youve quoted is relevant...I dont think its time to boo the academy and say theres homophobia in the air, there might be some but i think "crash" is just a good movie and well it won!
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Sorry this is not coming from a bad place but I just saw Crash yesterday on DVD...
What a simplistic, unimaginative stereotypical movie!
There were moments of good acting but the dialogue was AWFUL!
I think that it was the LA-centered nature of this film that made it win. Can anyone from the East Coast even relate to the gun toting madmen in this awful film? Does nobody else hear how stupid lines like "sometimes we crash into each other just so we can feel something" are? Ugh! Barf!
I could take Brokeback losing to Capote or Walk the Line but CRASH?!?!? ???
i really appreciated "crash" and i think the line youve quoted is relevant...I dont think its time to boo the academy and say theres homophobia in the air, there might be some but i think "crash" is just a good movie and well it won!
The Academy's decision speaks for itself. It may be homophobia or some other reason they try to justify it. If it lost to Capote, Munich or Good Night and Good Luck I'd feel that it lost to worthy opponents. Crash is garbage and shouldn't have even been nominated. So the Academy voted for Crash so they could feel good and not alienate Red State America.
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The Academy's decision speaks for itself. It may be homophobia or some other reason they try to justify it. If it lost to Capote, Munich or Good Night and Good Luck I'd feel that it lost to worthy opponents. Crash is garbage and shouldn't have even been nominated. So the Academy voted for Crash so they could feel good and not alienate Red State America.
Agreed, hidesert. It is their pick and their problem to deal with. It is just a shame. Despite all this oscar drama, BBM still won 3 including for the first time an Asian director won the Best Director. It is a major breakthrough. It could have been worse.
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The Academy's decision speaks for itself. It may be homophobia or some other reason they try to justify it. If it lost to Capote, Munich or Good Night and Good Luck I'd feel that it lost to worthy opponents. Crash is garbage and shouldn't have even been nominated. So the Academy voted for Crash so they could feel good and not alienate Red State America.
Agreed, hidesert. It is their pick and their problem to deal with. It is just a shame. Despite all this oscar drama, BBM still won 3 including for the first time an Asian director won the Best Director. It is a major breakthrough. It could have been worse.
You're right Ethan, three Oscars is a win, but I see those Oscars as awarding personal achievement. The Best Picture award recognizes the film and I'm sorry it lost to such a poor competitor.
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You're right Ethan, three Oscars is a win, but I see those Oscars as awarding personal achievement. The Best Picture award recognizes the film and I'm sorry it lost to such a poor competitor.
Many of us feel the same way. This will be one historical moment to talk about forever. BBM will be talked about forever.
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The Oscars were disgusting, and have lost any shred of legitimacy they may have had in my mind. I will never watch or care again.
I believe that history will prove BBM the winner. In 10 years, 2006 will be discussed as one of those "Worst Oscar Mistakes", right up there with Citizen Kane losing out to How Green Was My Valley. >:(
What's even worse will be all the smug right-wingers who will point to this as some sort of "proof" that America will never accept gays. >:( >:( >:(
They don't make an emoticon that shows how angry and disgusted I am right now.
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The Oscars were disgusting, and have lost any shred of legitimacy they may have had in my mind. I will never watch or care again.
I believe that history will prove BBM the winner. In 10 years, 2006 will be discussed as one of those "Worst Oscar Mistakes", right up there with Citizen Kane losing out to How Green Was My Valley. >:(
What's even worse will be all the smug right-wingers who will point to this as some sort of "proof" that America will never accept gays. >:( >:( >:(
They don't make an emoticon that shows how angry and disgusted I am right now.
It is with some sadness that I admit total agreement with you, Aela. I don't want to sound totally negative, but I must say with all honesty that I found yesterday's antics absolutely disgusting.
I make no apologies.
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The Oscars were disgusting, and have lost any shred of legitimacy they may have had in my mind. I will never watch or care again.
I believe that history will prove BBM the winner. In 10 years, 2006 will be discussed as one of those "Worst Oscar Mistakes", right up there with Citizen Kane losing out to How Green Was My Valley. >:(
What's even worse will be all the smug right-wingers who will point to this as some sort of "proof" that America will never accept gays. >:( >:( >:(
They don't make an emoticon that shows how angry and disgusted I am right now.
I, too, am in total agreement with your statements, Aela. I went to bed so disappointed last night. And I have always been so excited at watching the Oscars, it's like magic, usually...but for BBM to be snubbed in such a manner is appalling.
And don't get me started on them not being nominated for best original song....I mean, come on, "It's Not Easy Out Here for a Pimp" is very enlightening and all (drips with sarcasm), but seriously...ANY of the songs on the BBM soundtrack would have beaten it...
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The Oscars were disgusting, and have lost any shred of legitimacy they may have had in my mind. I will never watch or care again.
I believe that history will prove BBM the winner. In 10 years, 2006 will be discussed as one of those "Worst Oscar Mistakes", right up there with Citizen Kane losing out to How Green Was My Valley. >:(
What's even worse will be all the smug right-wingers who will point to this as some sort of "proof" that America will never accept gays. >:( >:( >:(
They don't make an emoticon that shows how angry and disgusted I am right now.
I agree with u,too.
I am so sad and disappointed.
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I wonder how many other Best Picture Oscar winners (Crash) won because Academy members voted against a another film's subject matter (BBM). I bet there will be much written about this injustice.
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a cut and paste from another thread I just posted in, but it should be here
IMHO, if Heath was going to lose, the film was going to lose.
The movie rests on his broken back
Best picture without heath as best actor would be some sort of pandering. Which I would have totally embraced, but it would be an empty victory. It's his performace that makes the movie the best picture of the year.
But CRASH? A decent flick, but I got 10-15 movies this year that could easily best it.
Clooney gave the speech of the night
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http://theenvelope.latimes.com/awards/oscars/env-turan5mar05,0,5359042.story
Breaking no ground
Why 'Crash' won, why 'Brokeback' lost and how the academy chose to play it safe.Winning duo: Co-writer and director Paul Haggis basks in the Oscar glow with producer Cathy Schulman.
(AMPAS)
By Kenneth Turan, Times Staff Writer
March 5, 2006 Sometimes you win by losing, and nothing has proved what a powerful, taboo-breaking, necessary film "Brokeback Mountain" was more than its loss Sunday night to "Crash" in the Oscar best picture category.
Despite all the magazine covers it graced, despite all the red-state theaters it made good money in, despite (or maybe because of) all the jokes late-night talk show hosts made about it, you could not take the pulse of the industry without realizing that this film made a number of people distinctly uncomfortable.
More than any other of the nominated films, "Brokeback Mountain" was the one people told me they really didn't feel like seeing, didn't really get, didn't understand the fuss over. Did I really like it, they wanted to know. Yes, I really did.
In the privacy of the voting booth, as many political candidates who've led in polls only to lose elections have found out, people are free to act out the unspoken fears and unconscious prejudices that they would never breathe to another soul, or, likely, acknowledge to themselves. And at least this year, that acting out doomed "Brokeback Mountain."
For Hollywood, as a whole laundry list of people announced from the podium Sunday night and a lengthy montage of clips tried to emphasize, is a liberal place, a place that prides itself on its progressive agenda. If this were a year when voters had no other palatable options, they might have taken a deep breath and voted for "Brokeback." This year, however, "Crash" was poised to be the spoiler.
I do not for one minute question the sincerity and integrity of the people who made "Crash," and I do not question their commitment to wanting a more equal society. But I do question the film they've made. It may be true, as producer Cathy Schulman said in accepting the Oscar for best picture, that this was "one of the most breathtaking and stunning maverick years in American history," but "Crash" is not an example of that.
I don't care how much trouble "Crash" had getting financing or getting people on board, the reality of this film, the reason it won the best picture Oscar, is that it is, at its core, a standard Hollywood movie, as manipulative and unrealistic as the day is long. And something more.
For "Crash's" biggest asset is its ability to give people a carload of those standard Hollywood satisfactions but make them think they are seeing something groundbreaking and daring. It is, in some ways, a feel-good film about racism, a film you could see and feel like a better person, a film that could make you believe that you had done your moral duty and examined your soul when in fact you were just getting your buttons pushed and your preconceptions reconfirmed.
So for people who were discomfited by "Brokeback Mountain" but wanted to be able to look themselves in the mirror and feel like they were good, productive liberals, "Crash" provided the perfect safe harbor. They could vote for it in good conscience, vote for it and feel they had made a progressive move, vote for it and not feel that there was any stain on their liberal credentials for shunning what "Brokeback" had to offer. And that's exactly what they did.
"Brokeback," it is worth noting, was in some ways the tamest of the discomforting films available to Oscar voters in various categories. Steven Spielberg's "Munich"; the Palestinian Territories' "Paradise Now," one of the best foreign language nominees; and the documentary nominee "Darwin's Nightmare" offered scenarios that truly shook up people's normal ways of seeing the world. None of them won a thing.
Hollywood, of course, is under no obligation to be a progressive force in the world. It is in the business of entertainment, in the business of making the most dollars it can. Yes, on Oscar night, it likes to pat itself on the back for the good it does in the world, but as Sunday night's ceremony proved, it is easier to congratulate yourself for a job well done in the past than actually do that job in the present.
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I am in absolute, 100% concurrance with that article.
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That was a major upset. I saw Crash and thought it was good movie, but certainly not the best of the year. In my opinion, it won because more people in the academy saw the movie. It came out earlier in the year, had been on DVD for several months, and, Lion's Gate spent 4 million dollars on an oscar dvd campaign.
BBM was robbed of a Best Picture award because of nice campaigning.
It would have been nice for Felicity Huffman to have won. TransAmerica was a great flick. But Huffman was very gracious and something like "I was a winner when I was nominated," or something like that.
I'm sure this won't be the last time we see Jake and Heath on the nominations lists. It would have been nice to see them win, but they'll have plenty of opportunities in the future.
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A movie like BBM comes once in 50 years and the fact it didn't win the best movie award is bitter. Once again Hollywood proved that Masterpieces are not awarded with the picture of the year award.
And I do agree with Ethan. We should be happy that BBM won 3 awards as it could have lost everything.
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I can remember posting on another message board several weeks ago, that Brokeback Mountain swept the awards that were nominated by the FOREIGN PRESS and in Britain. And that their outlook and acceptance of the subject matter was completely different than that of the people in this country.
That was proved last night, and even though deep down we knew it could happen, it doesn't make it hurt less.
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What is wrong with America???!!!
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sorry I'll say it again. Crash was a more-than-mediocre movie that spoon-feeds people what they're supposed to think about racism.
You don't need to be a gay cowboy to identify with the love and power of Brokeback Mountain but you surely have to be some jaded white resident of Southern California (that can overlook really bad dialogue in your movies) to feel anything for Crash...
love this from a review of CRASH:
"Cheadle's black detective--and that's the only way you ever hear of people discussing the particulars of Crash -- opens the film by saying that the people in the City of Angels are so disconnected that they crash into one another "just so we can feel something." (I wrote something like that in a journal as a suicidal fifteen-year-old contemplating cutting myself with the serrated edge of a tape dispenser. Pathetic then, pathetic now.) The implication being that racial tensions and conflagrations are a product of sensitive people closed off from their feelings and needing to express themselves somehow."
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I wrote something like that in a journal as a suicidal fifteen-year-old contemplating cutting myself with the serrated edge of a tape dispenser. Pathetic then, pathetic now
I'm sorry, but I find this line hilarious!!
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Crash sucked, period. It was over-done, over the top in scope, acting, dialogue etc. A movie that makes people feel good about being bigots....that sure shows where The Academy head is at. Equality, justice, and truth, not in that poor ass excuse of a movie.
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I wrote something like that in a journal as a suicidal fifteen-year-old contemplating cutting myself with the serrated edge of a tape dispenser. Pathetic then, pathetic now
I'm sorry, but I find this line hilarious!!
I know, isn't it great? ;D
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May I say "Crash" got lucky? It isn't Crash's fault.
In a movie award like this, everyone has a different taste. The outcome of this proves the tastes of the majority voting members. What is it? We don't know.
There is one certain thing - BBM will be the one being talked about and Crash will be on the book for being lucky one to win. If I could choose, I rather choose the deserving one - not the one with luck.
Whenever there is a voting, it is subject to lobboying and the majority wins. The majority in this case doesn't necessarily represent us.
We cared about the oscar because of our hope for them to do the right thing. It didn't turn out to be the case but we still have hope.
Love is the force of nature and no one can defy the nature. Even though not this time, there will be more to come.
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oh come on Ethan, let us rant about it for a day at least.
Yes yes love is a force of nature, but let's enjoy Crash bashing for 24 hours and then get over it!
;D
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Ethan, True.
To me, Trash represents what's wrong with our country and the way they think. Let's tell everyone their not a bigot, let's make them 'feel good'. Let's not DO THE RIGHT THING and examine society...that would be asking a little much in this god forsaken wasteland.
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oh come on Ethan, let us rant about it for a day at least.
Yes yes love is a force of nature, but let's enjoy Crash bashing for 24 hours and then get over it!
;D
I hear you and I understand, matt78 :D Only if you promise that you will get over it after 24 hours.
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I posted earlier that Clooney made an eloquent point about Hollywood being progressive etc.
But you know, it's in ways they feel comfortable. I mean as George said they gave Hattie McDaniels
an Oscar but if you recall she played a slave right? And Denzel got his for playing basically a pimp.
I mean I don't know, I wouldn't exactly call Hollywood progressive, they really treated Altman badly.
in fact even Ebert said he shouldn't accept that honorary award.
So fellas who cares what they think.
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I promise! Otherwise my name's not matt78! ;)
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When Brokeback Mountain lost to Crash it was like getting kicked in the stomach. I saw
Crash, and liked it, but it had no heart, and wasn't remotely in a class with BBM.
But this morning, in a way, I think it might be better that it was Crash instead of one of
the other three that beat BBM, and that is because the other three had somber
historical subjects: Capote's writing of In Cold Blood, Edward R. Murrow vs. McCarthy, and
the Olympic murder of Israeli athletes. One of them might have been thought in the
future to be more 'worthy' because of its content.
But Crash is so unlikely to maintain its fleeting glory, because movie lovers are not that
stupid in the end, that part of Brokeback lore in the future may be, as it should be,
that it was unjustly denied what it deserved.
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And it was also like getting kicked when Jake Gyllenhaal lost
to George Clooney. I know he's talented, and some of you
like him, but I don't anymore, since well before last night.
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well George did great in Syriana but actually if I didn't pick Jake I would have voted for
Giamatti. But they like George better I think.
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Like and safe are the important words to remember when considering what happened at the Oscars in 2006....
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I think it was made pretty clear last night that Hollywood is very HOMOPHOBIC. BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN is on a list of films that includes NETWORK, GOODFELLAS, ALL THAT JAZZ, FARGO, L.A. CONFIDENTIAL that the Academy snubbed but have lived on, and will continue to enthrall all who watch them. BBM is a work of art and is a GREAT GIFT for all of us tO love forever.
BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN is still the most honored film of 2005; an nothing can take that away.
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There are many reasons people voted for CRASH---- it is a good movie ,well acted but i don't feel especially original.
The Academy has many factions--- genuine CRASH fans, people stirred by it's subject matter and lovers of particular performances in it.
But sadly it also appears to have had a % of anti- bbm advocates . Ii live in the uk and there was a film prog on fri where an academy member explained how they and some friends would vote tactically to stop a certain movie winning.They would vote for the competition not because they liked it but to stop the other movie . No mention of either movie's name was made --- but i felt heart sick then.
This could be a total aberration and may account for a few votes only ,but i felt sad that it is possible bbm lost out not to a movie some people thought was better --- but simply one that didn't offend them in some way.
By all means let the "best" movie win,even if I don't agree with it , but surely people should vote honestly for what they truly think is best.
I'm sure this is just my paranoia --- and i know all the best picture nominees would have wanted a fair and open competition.
The magic of bbm remains unchanged for me.
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There are many reasons people voted for CRASH---- it is a good movie ,well acted but i don't feel especially original.
The Academy has many factions--- genuine CRASH fans, people stirred by it's subject matter and lovers of particular performances in it.
But sadly it also appears to have had a % of anti- bbm advocates . Ii live in the uk and there was a film prog on fri where an academy member explained how they and some friends would vote tactically to stop a certain movie winning.They would vote for the competition not because they liked it but to stop the other movie . No mention of either movie's name was made --- but i felt heart sick then.
This could be a total aberration and may account for a few votes only ,but i felt sad that it is possible bbm lost out not to a movie some people thought was better --- but simply one that didn't offend them in some way.
By all means let the "best" movie win,even if I don't agree with it , but surely people should vote honestly for what they truly think is best.
I'm sure this is just my paranoia --- and i know all the best picture nominees would have wanted a fair and open competition.
The magic of bbm remains unchanged for me.
Whoa, you mean you heard an academy member say that? That's wild.
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When Brokeback Mountain lost to Crash it was like getting kicked in the stomach. I saw
Crash, and liked it, but it had no heart, and wasn't remotely in a class with BBM.
But this morning, in a way, I think it might be better that it was Crash instead of one of
the other three that beat BBM, and that is because the other three had somber
historical subjects: Capote's writing of In Cold Blood, Edward R. Murrow vs. McCarthy, and
the Olympic murder of Israeli athletes. One of them might have been thought in the
future to be more 'worthy' because of its content.
But Crash is so unlikely to maintain its fleeting glory, because movie lovers are not that
stupid in the end, that part of Brokeback lore in the future may be, as it should be,
that it was unjustly denied what it deserved.
My thoughts exactly. Brokeback Mountain will have staying power as a truly great film, one of the finest if not finest love stories ever written. Crash will be a brief flash in the pan turned to smoke and blown away as if never there.
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Toad - that is not uncommon. I have heard that before in a program on the academy members. Certain directors, actors, etc. will not win because of politics or topics. Guess we know now where GAY fits in, don't we...we don't.
May the hounds of hell chew their underwear!
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What a bunch of jerks. I mean to vote for something just to vote AGAINST another movie.
Did you read the post about how surprised Jack Nicholson looked when he opened the envelope?
I didn't notice personally. (I didn't even remember he announced it, I blocked it out)
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Toad - that is not uncommon. I have heard that before in a program on the academy members. Certain directors, actors, etc. will not win because of politics or topics. Guess we know now where GAY fits in, don't we...we don't.
May the hounds of hell chew their underwear!
I think it is ironic that CRASH, which is about tolerance did not have a Gay character; it would have been fitting because Gays are ultimately treated worse than any race minority these days.
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Interesting point Brad.... Very interesting.
Ang said it is the "final frontier" and he is right I think.
You know I did like Crash, I did. I don't want to knock it.
But it's just not a best picture, it's provacative, it's intriguing.
But it's contrived and the dialogue is so obvious. and they
way they so cleverly tie it together, it's not a movie you think
about after you leave for very long.
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There are many reasons people voted for CRASH---- it is a good movie ,well acted but i don't feel especially original.
The Academy has many factions--- genuine CRASH fans, people stirred by it's subject matter and lovers of particular performances in it.
But sadly it also appears to have had a % of anti- bbm advocates . Ii live in the uk and there was a film prog on fri where an academy member explained how they and some friends would vote tactically to stop a certain movie winning.They would vote for the competition not because they liked it but to stop the other movie . No mention of either movie's name was made --- but i felt heart sick then.
This could be a total aberration and may account for a few votes only ,but i felt sad that it is possible bbm lost out not to a movie some people thought was better --- but simply one that didn't offend them in some way.
By all means let the "best" movie win,even if I don't agree with it , but surely people should vote honestly for what they truly think is best.
I'm sure this is just my paranoia --- and i know all the best picture nominees would have wanted a fair and open competition.
The magic of bbm remains unchanged for me.
Whoa, you mean you heard an academy member say that? That's wild.
Crash won because academy members voted against BBM's subject matter. Many of them refused to even watch it, remember?.....simple to see what was going on now.
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You may want to read this post again
http://www.ennisjack.com/index.php?topic=1783.msg25483#msg25483
"I don't see any reason for this media created horse race. The only reason to predict/root for a loss for a film that has won the DGA, PGA, WGA, Globe, BFCA, BAFTA, the public imagination, big bog office, and the most Critics Awards is a reason known as wishful thinking. I know of no case of a film with this much of a haul losing the Best Picture crown to a film with barely any haul at all. So if you're predicting this upset/or rooting for it it means you either:
a) like Crash better. Which is fine. But maybe you should watch both films again? I'm just sayin'....
or
b) or you are just rooting against Brokeback. Which is a more significant problem. This means either
1) You're bored. Fine. There have been many "locked" contenders in Oscar history. You'll survive. Maybe next year will be more exciting... (believe me I know the feeling)
2) You think Munich or Capote or Good Night are the best. Fine. But you know those films aren't going to win so why root against Brokeback?
3) You're one of those people who think subject matter is all (never mind execution) and think terrorism or racism or McCarthyism are more important than the plight of two men in love in a world that condemns them. If you're one of these people I can't help you. And if you're one of those people who can't see that all four of those themes are basically conjoined under the larger "man's inhumanity to man" heading, I can't help you either. But that's beside the point. Subject matter never made anything the "best". It can help get people on your side but it isn't a qualitative measure.
or
4) you're struggling with some homophobia.
I realize saying #4 out loud will attract the haters. But I have to think that that's some of the resistance to this film's success. Hear me out before getting too riled up. I can't come up with any other way (and I've tried to work through scenarios) that this film could lose.
Oscarwatch floated the idea earlier that Crash could win if people vote with their hearts. But Brokeback is hardly a cold exercize. It's a tearjerker itself. So that reason doesn't wash. This is not a cold Scorsese biopic vs. a four-hankie intimate drama like last year or the year of Raging Bull vs. Ordinary People. Roger Ebert claims its all about Crash's momentum. But momentum usually applies to the newer film that is currently all the rage (BBM)
What we have is a film (BBM) with DGA + PGA + WGA+ GLOBE + CRITICS + PUBLIC + BAFTA + BOX OFFICE up against a film (Crash) with only a couple of prizes of note (SAG, ACE, WGA) and an earlier release date. I can't see any way Brokeback loses unless it's through people actively voting against it rather than for something else. Thus suggesting homophobia."
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This was posted by someone called "j.S." in the usenet newsgroup, rec.arts.movies.current-films.
It was nominated for 8 awards, itself an elite honor. It won 3,
including the single most impressive one, for Best Direction.
It has won scores of other impressive awards; more than any film the
past year. So many in fact, that one more, basically questionable one,
really wouldn't have mattered. Even without a single "award', it still
would be a consumate, extrordinary piece of filmmaking.
It has been astonishingly successful financially based upon cost/profit
ratio. DVD sales are going to be insane. It has achieved a level of
popularity among all segments of life, all over the world that surprised
the hell out of everybody. It's become a household word and has entered
into the nation's, and world's mass consciousness. It is bringing about,
to some degree, in some way, change into our society. And it will
continue to captivate and move audiences comprised of thoughtful,
intelligent human beings for many decades to come.
Brokeback Mountain a "loser?"
You've got to be kidding.
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This was posted by someone called "j.S." in the usenet newsgroup, rec.arts.movies.current-films.
It was nominated for 8 awards, itself an elite honor. It won 3,
including the single most impressive one, for Best Direction.
It has won scores of other impressive awards; more than any film the
past year. So many in fact, that one more, basically questionable one,
really wouldn't have mattered. Even without a single "award', it still
would be a consumate, extrordinary piece of filmmaking.
It has been astonishingly successful financially based upon cost/profit
ratio. DVD sales are going to be insane. It has achieved a level of
popularity among all segments of life, all over the world that surprised
the hell out of everybody. It's become a household word and has entered
into the nation's, and world's mass consciousness. It is bringing about,
to some degree, in some way, change into our society. And it will
continue to captivate and move audiences comprised of thoughtful,
intelligent human beings for many decades to come.
Brokeback Mountain a "loser?"
You've got to be kidding.
Amen to that. ;)
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Crash had a very large cast and crew. Pretty much everyone in Hollywood either took part or knew someone that took part in the movie. In this case a vote for Crash was a vote for a friend. This has happened before when "Around the World in 80 Days" won best picture. It wasn't really the best movie produced that year but pretty much everyone famous in Hollywood had a cameo appearance in it.
I have a feeling that the Academy really outed itself with the Crash decission. There have been rumours that there were a lot of politics involved but this was really a blatant move on their part. Remember during the Salt Lake City Winter Olympics when the Canadian skaters, who clearly won the gold medal, lost due to a judging scandal? Well, this is going to be the Academy scandal. The Academy is going to have to do a lot of back peddling. The credibility of the Academy Awards is truly at stake. I for one, will be more prone to watch the BAFTAS or the Golden Globes from now on. The Academy has lost touch but not necessarily with America. They have lost touch with their moral center.
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Speaking of Golden Globes, Crash was not even nominated.
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Speaking of Golden Globes, Crash was not even nominated.
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Did it get anything at BAFTAS? Thats so far back in memory banks ;D
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Speaking of Golden Globes, Crash was not even nominated.
Good point. I don't get it. ???
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I just read on some other site a quote by actor Tony Curtis that he refused to see BrokeBack Mountain and voted against it which is a clear violation of Academy rules. And if I'm not mistaken, and possibly some of you older fellows like me can back me up, Tony was known as quite a swinger in his younger days. How dare he!
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I just read on some other site a quote by actor Tony Curtis that he refused to see BrokeBack Mountain and voted against it which is a clear violation of Academy rules. And if I'm not mistaken, and possibly some of you older fellows like me can back me up, Tony was known as quite a swinger in his younger days. How dare he!
Mr. Curtis has been rumored to be bisexual. I guess he was afraid to see 2 hot guys getting it on now that he is a old troll. He sounds like a bitter old queen.
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Oh well.. BBM will be remembered, Crash not. Still, it's painful :'(
From OSCARWATCH.COM
The Crash upset takes its first casualty, only the best awards database site there is, Fennec. They track the Golden Globes and the guilds and of course, the Oscars. Here's to hoping they are just pissed off and will return again:
Now it might be homophobia, or it might not, we just don't know. It may be stupid actors voting for the actor-rich movie, we don't know. Whatever the reason, this piece of shit has forced me to do something I didn't think possible. I give up.
I cannot bring myself to update this website saying that the film the Academy Of Motion Picture Arts And Sciences selected was the best of the year. Therefore, the Fennec Awards Database is closing down. Effective immediately there will be no more updates to the film side (the Tonys section will have an update later this year).
I had no idea that my personal joy at going to the movies and seeing them rewarded with Oscars could be so irreparably destroyed. But tonight it has been. I see roughly 200 per year (and pay for each and every one of them) and have paid for this website out of my personal pocket for the last 10 years. And after this travesty, it just doesn't seem worth it to continue if this is the crap the Academy will acclaim.
No doubt many will say "oh come on, give me a break, it's just the Oscars, who cares" or "Crash deserved it!" or "They just liked Crash better!" But take it from someone who's been around almost as long as Fennec when you hold something under a microscope be prepared to not like what you see so close up.
RIP Greatest Database There Ever Was
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Mr. Curtis has been rumored to be bisexual. I guess he was afraid to see 2 hot guys getting it on now that he is a old troll. He sounds like a bitter old queen.
LOL ;D
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Okay, I know we all hate Crash. I do too, but I have to say I love the movie posters :P
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Okay, I know we all hate Crash. I do too, but I have to say I love the movie posters :P
I LOVE THEM ;D
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I would buy the Crash DVD if it put that on the DVD case haha!
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May the hounds of hell chew their underwear!
OK, that's just too funny. What a classic curse!
Cowboy, you need a real big hug. (((From me to you))). We're not ALL homophobes.
camom
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This was posted by someone called "j.S." in the usenet newsgroup, rec.arts.movies.current-films.
It was nominated for 8 awards, itself an elite honor. It won 3,
including the single most impressive one, for Best Direction.
It has won scores of other impressive awards; more than any film the
past year. So many in fact, that one more, basically questionable one,
really wouldn't have mattered. Even without a single "award', it still
would be a consumate, extrordinary piece of filmmaking.
It has been astonishingly successful financially based upon cost/profit
ratio. DVD sales are going to be insane. It has achieved a level of
popularity among all segments of life, all over the world that surprised
the hell out of everybody. It's become a household word and has entered
into the nation's, and world's mass consciousness. It is bringing about,
to some degree, in some way, change into our society. And it will
continue to captivate and move audiences comprised of thoughtful,
intelligent human beings for many decades to come.
Brokeback Mountain a "loser?"
You've got to be kidding.
Amen to that. ;)
Double amen.
camom
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Camom - I know you are not. I really appreciate your kind words and your hugs! You are good people. You understand what the vast majority of Americans don't and may never understand. We owe a debt of gratitude to those like yourself for sticking up for us. Those types of bonds can change things. Thank You.
Cody
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There are many reasons people voted for CRASH---- it is a good movie ,well acted but i don't feel especially original.
The Academy has many factions--- genuine CRASH fans, people stirred by it's subject matter and lovers of particular performances in it.
But sadly it also appears to have had a % of anti- bbm advocates . Ii live in the uk and there was a film prog on fri where an academy member explained how they and some friends would vote tactically to stop a certain movie winning.They would vote for the competition not because they liked it but to stop the other movie . No mention of either movie's name was made --- but i felt heart sick then.
This could be a total aberration and may account for a few votes only ,but i felt sad that it is possible bbm lost out not to a movie some people thought was better --- but simply one that didn't offend them in some way.
By all means let the "best" movie win,even if I don't agree with it , but surely people should vote honestly for what they truly think is best.
I'm sure this is just my paranoia --- and i know all the best picture nominees would have wanted a fair and open competition.
The magic of bbm remains unchanged for me.
It was the BBc that broke the story of voting irregularities in our presidentioa elections WAY BEFORE any American news agencies got wind of anything going o.
Keep up the good work BBC.
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Ethan, True.
To me, Trash represents what's wrong with our country and the way they think. Let's tell everyone their not a bigot, let's make them 'feel good'. Let's not DO THE RIGHT THING and examine society...that would be asking a little much in this god forsaken wasteland.
LOL@Trash! Cmon, CC, everybody knows it was called Crash and Burn!
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Trash or Crap as it's now commonly called, will go down in the annals of history as the next "How Friggin' Green Was My Valley"...but guess what the next Citizen Kane has arrived...staying power of
BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN
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I just read on some other site a quote by actor Tony Curtis that he refused to see BrokeBack Mountain and voted against it which is a clear violation of Academy rules. And if I'm not mistaken, and possibly some of you older fellows like me can back me up, Tony was known as quite a swinger in his younger days. How dare he!
Yes he was - not that I'm OLD - but isn't this the same guy who spent a whole movie pretending to be a woman (Some Like It Hot) :-)
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Yeah and he's real egomaniac....Natalie Wood couldn't stand him. Tony Curtis had the looks, a great actor, doubtful.
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Trash! WOW! couldn't think of a better name! they chose the worst movie to win.. that was the surprise!
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Drinkswhiskeywithwater....I couldn't agree more Darlin'!
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> ... they chose the worst movie to win.. that was the surprise!
Hey, I hadn't even thought of that; there were three other outrages,too:
Capote lost to Crash!
Good Night and Good Luck lost to Crash!
Munich lost to Crash!
This would be funny if it wasn't so profoundly wrong.
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There were a lot of rumors going around that Crash was doing some serious campaigning, which is against Academy rules. Purportedly there were informal cocktail parties and dinner parties being held in LA to convince Academy members to vote for Crash. Just rumors, but usually where there is smoke... Crash had a huge ensemble cast as I mentioned before and friends vote for friends and remember we don't have a vote.
The credibility of the Academy has hit rock bottom with me and I won't get suckered into the whole "Oscars" thing again. The Academy is all hype because they make their $50 million from the awards ceremony which keeps AMPAS in business. Yet their viewership for the Awards show continues to go down.
They could do one thing that could help restore some credibility and that is to get rid of all of the secrecy about the vote counting. Vote totals should be available to everyone and not locked in a vault somewhere. How many votes nominees received are not national security secrets. Their whole voting process has all the elements of "smoke filled rooms" and a "star chamber". It's archaic!
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There were a lot of rumors going around that Crash was doing some serious campaigning, which is against Academy rules. Purportedly there were informal cocktail parties and dinner parties being held in LA to convince Academy members to vote for Crash. Just rumors, but usually where there is smoke... Crash had a huge ensemble cast as I mentioned before and friends vote for friends and remember we don't have a vote.
The credibility of the Academy has hit rock bottom with me and I won't get suckered into the whole "Oscars" thing again. The Academy is all hype because they make their $50 million from the awards ceremony which keeps AMPAS in business. Yet their viewership for the Awards show continues to go down.
They could do one thing that could help restore some credibility and that is to get rid of all of the secrecy about the vote counting. Vote totals should available to everyone and not locked in a vault somewhere. How many votes nominees received are not national security secrets. Their whole voting process has all the elements of "smoke filled rooms" and star chambers. It's archaic!
does not surprise me did you notice the shit where Jon Stewart makes fun of TV ads? Where there is smoke there probably truth.
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There were a lot of rumors going around that Crash was doing some serious campaigning, which is against Academy rules. Purportedly there were informal cocktail parties and dinner parties being held in LA to convince Academy members to vote for Crash. Just rumors, but usually where there is smoke... Crash had a huge ensemble cast as I mentioned before and friends vote for friends and remember we don't have a vote.
The credibility of the Academy has hit rock bottom with me and I won't get suckered into the whole "Oscars" thing again. The Academy is all hype because they make their $50 million from the awards ceremony which keeps AMPAS in business. Yet their viewership for the Awards show continues to go down.
They could do one thing that could help restore some credibility and that is to get rid of all of the secrecy about the vote counting. Vote totals should available to everyone and not locked in a vault somewhere. How many votes nominees received are not national security secrets. Their whole voting process has all the elements of "smoke filled rooms" and star chambers. It's archaic!
The Academy has totally lost their credibility as far as I'm concerned. My husband and I are both totally incensed and agree that this was it. No more Oscar shows for this family, and I've watched the Academy Awards for over 30 years. We'll watch the Golden Globes instead.
camom
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The new banner is up....
Oh...you little gold man. Sorry we got no place for you. We are full.
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remember Titanic has one. That puts it into perspective for me.
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remember Titanic has one. That puts it into perspective for me.
True. But who cares? ;D
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There were a lot of rumors going around that Crash was doing some serious campaigning, which is against Academy rules. Purportedly there were informal cocktail parties and dinner parties being held in LA to convince Academy members to vote for Crash. Just rumors, but usually where there is smoke... Crash had a huge ensemble cast as I mentioned before and friends vote for friends and remember we don't have a vote.
The credibility of the Academy has hit rock bottom with me and I won't get suckered into the whole "Oscars" thing again. The Academy is all hype because they make their $50 million from the awards ceremony which keeps AMPAS in business. Yet their viewership for the Awards show continues to go down.
They could do one thing that could help restore some credibility and that is to get rid of all of the secrecy about the vote counting. Vote totals should available to everyone and not locked in a vault somewhere. How many votes nominees received are not national security secrets. Their whole voting process has all the elements of "smoke filled rooms" and star chambers. It's archaic!
The Academy has totally lost their credibility as far as I'm concerned. My husband and I are both totally incensed and agree that this was it. No more Oscar shows for this family, and I've watched the Academy Awards for over 30 years. We'll watch the Golden Globes instead.
camom
Don't forget the BAFTAS..they are my new Oscars. The great thing about the resurrection of the Golden Globes is that members of the HFP actually see all the movies nominated and talk with the makers and astors, etc. Also, I think there will be a new interest in all the Film Festival around the world. Venice (which hailed Brokeback first) has my interest. One commentator said it best Monday...the Academy gives awards to who gets the most votes, not necessarily the Best Film! Bye Academy!!
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I have nothing more to add, I just want to say how happy I am to be here with you all. I've been ranting and raging about this since Sunday night, and no one really *gets* the outrage I feel. I'm glad this place exists.
:-\
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The Academy is a joke like you said.
They do not award the "Best Film"
It is like when you're in highschool, its basically a popularity conest. It's all about politics and friends vote for friends and people dont follow the rules. Crash winning was like the funniest thing on earth because it is not a good film. BBM was clearly the best film.
Thats just how it works. I know how unfair it is but It's only fitting that the Academy-trailer-trash voters, would give it to their own kind, TRASH.
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remember Titanic has one. That puts it into perspective for me.
True. But who cares? ;D
Exactly! ;) I got so bored with Titanic I had to use the fast forward button. Hee hee
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I like "Crash", I enjoyed the movie. But...it's nothing compared to Brokeback Mountain. They picked "Crash" over some amazing movies, not just BBM. Hell, they picked "Crash" over "Walk the Line." What's up with that?
I heard Lionsgate handed out DVDs to memebers of the Academy. Isn't that wrong in a rule book somewhere.
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I like "Crash", I enjoyed the movie. But...it's nothing compared to Brokeback Mountain. They picked "Crash" over some amazing movies, not just BBM. Hell, they picked "Crash" over "Walk the Line." What's up with that?
I heard Lionsgate handed out DVDs to memebers of the Academy. Isn't that wrong in a rule book somewhere.
they picked the worst moviel to win Best Picture and just so u know.. BBM is above them all!!
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The Bafta's are a much more neutral organization in the case of BBM vs. Crash.
Crash had a huge cast of well known actors and tech staff. Each of them well connected in the Academy's voting bloc. It was probably hard for them to be neutral when friends and family were at hand.
I think I will consider the BAFTA's the true voice of 2005 movies in the world..
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I'm sorry to be so ignorant, but what are the BAFTAS? I don't know that one! :-\
If it makes anyone feel any better, both my kids love the soundtrack and go around singing "King of the Road" and "Devil's Right Hand." Makes me feel better, anyway. And when the DVD comes out, my 14 year old is going to see a somewhat censored version. I'm seriously considering letting my 9 year old see it as well--and I'm very conservative about what I let my kids watch. This is just too important, IMO.
camom
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I'm sorry to be so ignorant, but what are the BAFTAS? I don't know that one! :-\
If it makes anyone feel any better, both my kids love the soundtrack and go around singing "King of the Road" and "Devil's Right Hand." Makes me feel better, anyway. And when the DVD comes out, my 14 year old is going to see a somewhat censored version. I'm seriously considering letting my 9 year old see it as well--and I'm very conservative about what I let my kids watch. This is just too important, IMO.
camom
British Oscars my dear...this year i can say i am a very proud Brit - Oscars suck >:(
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I'm sorry to be so ignorant, but what are the BAFTAS? I don't know that one! :-\
If it makes anyone feel any better, both my kids love the soundtrack and go around singing "King of the Road" and "Devil's Right Hand." Makes me feel better, anyway. And when the DVD comes out, my 14 year old is going to see a somewhat censored version. I'm seriously considering letting my 9 year old see it as well--and I'm very conservative about what I let my kids watch. This is just too important, IMO.
camom
British Oscars my dear...this year i can say i am a very proud Brit - Oscars suck >:(
I would tend to agree. I think we Americans just think we are so special.
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> And when the DVD comes out, my 14 year old is going to see a somewhat censored version.
Having never had children I'm no expert on parenting, but why? There's nothing in
Brokeback that would shock a 14 year old, is there? Considering the garbage that most
14 year olds have been subjected to, I would think an uncensored Brokeback would
be just the thing to demonstrate to a 14 year old how senstitve subjects can be
handled well.
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I'm sorry to be so ignorant, but what are the BAFTAS? I don't know that one! :-\
If it makes anyone feel any better, both my kids love the soundtrack and go around singing "King of the Road" and "Devil's Right Hand." Makes me feel better, anyway. And when the DVD comes out, my 14 year old is going to see a somewhat censored version. I'm seriously considering letting my 9 year old see it as well--and I'm very conservative about what I let my kids watch. This is just too important, IMO.
camom
British Oscars my dear...this year i can say i am a very proud Brit - Oscars suck >:(
I would tend to agree. I think we Americans just think we are so special.
Brits guilty of that also - this is just my biased opinion 'cos i was so let down. I would have loved to have said Oscars rule!
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> And when the DVD comes out, my 14 year old is going to see a somewhat censored version.
Having never had children I'm no expert on parenting, but why? There's nothing in
Brokeback that would shock a 14 year old, is there? Considering the garbage that most
14 year olds have been subjected to, I would think an uncensored Brokeback would
be just the thing to demonstrate to a 14 year old how senstitve subjects can be
handled well.
Ah I would censor myself, I think we know where.
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> Ah I would censor myself, I think we know where.
At what age would you not censor?
All this assumes that a parent could actually censor this movie, which i think
is doubtful. This movie is so famous, and the DVD will be so prevalent, that
I don't think any child old enough to get on a computer or out of the
house unsupervized can be prevented from seeing all of it.
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I'm sorry to be so ignorant, but what are the BAFTAS? I don't know that one! :-\
If it makes anyone feel any better, both my kids love the soundtrack and go around singing "King of the Road" and "Devil's Right Hand." Makes me feel better, anyway. And when the DVD comes out, my 14 year old is going to see a somewhat censored version. I'm seriously considering letting my 9 year old see it as well--and I'm very conservative about what I let my kids watch. This is just too important, IMO. camom
British Oscars my dear...this year i can say i am a very proud Brit - Oscars suck >:(
You should be very proud Aimi to be British, the BAFTAs got it right. Jake should be very proud of his BAFTA award, it is better than an Oscar.
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> Ah I would censor myself, I think we know where.
At what age would you not censor?
All this assumes that a parent could actually censor this movie, which i think
is doubtful. This movie is so famous, and the DVD will be so prevalent, that
I don't think any child old enough to get on a computer or out of the
house unsupervized can be prevented from seeing all of it.
Call me old fashioned, but I dont think anybody under 16 or 17 should see BBM. It is an adult film. I can't imagine exposing, say, a 12yo to complex sexual content, nudity, intense relationship conflict on many levels, and, excuse me, but how many times do they say "F***"? BBM is a masterpiece, but it is not for kids.
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> I can't imagine exposing, say, a 12yo to complex sexual content, nudity,
> intense relationship conflict on many levels, and, excuse me, but how
> many times do they say "F***"? BBM is a masterpiece, but it is not for kids.
Not for kids, but I was asking why not for 14 year olds, rather than show them
a censored version.
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> Ah I would censor myself, I think we know where.
At what age would you not censor?
All this assumes that a parent could actually censor this movie, which i think
is doubtful. This movie is so famous, and the DVD will be so prevalent, that
I don't think any child old enough to get on a computer or out of the
house unsupervized can be prevented from seeing all of it.
Call me old fashioned, but I dont think anybody under 16 or 17 should see BBM. It is an adult film. I can't imagine exposing, say, a 12yo to complex sexual content, nudity, intense relationship conflict on many levels, and, excuse me, but how many times do they say "F***"? BBM is a masterpiece, but it is not for kids.
The language doesn't bother me, and I know it's something my kids have heard (from their dad, urk!). They know not to use language like that. The sex scenes, I don't think my older son is ready for that, and truthfully, I know him well enough to know that he wouldn't go looking for them elsewhere if I skip over them. I've talked to both of them about the movie quite a bit. My 9 year old wouldn't understand all the complexities, and actually I'd probably only let him watch up to the first tent scene. I want him to understand that Ennis and Jack are nice guys, people he would like in real life--he already knows they're gay. At his age, all he really needs to understand is that they're people like everyone else. My older son is pretty astute. We're also very close, and I think he deserves to know why this movie is so important to me.
camom
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> And when the DVD comes out, my 14 year old is going to see a somewhat censored version.
Having never had children I'm no expert on parenting, but why? There's nothing in
Brokeback that would shock a 14 year old, is there? Considering the garbage that most
14 year olds have been subjected to, I would think an uncensored Brokeback would
be just the thing to demonstrate to a 14 year old how senstitve subjects can be
handled well.
Ah, well, you say "most" 14 year olds. Not all. Some stuff you can't keep kids away from, but quite a lot you can. I've tried hard to let my kids be kids. If they're going to be shocked by something, I'd rather it was as significant as BBM. Completely uncensored for a 14 year old is a little bit much, though (IMO).
camom
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Call me old fashioned, but I don't think anybody under 16 or 17 should see BBM. It is an adult film. I can't imagine exposing, say, a 12yo to complex sexual content, nudity, intense relationship conflict on many levels, and, excuse me, but how many times do they say "F***"? BBM is a masterpiece, but it is not for kids.
JerBear, complex sexual content, yes, intense relationship conflict on may levels, yes, nudity, what's wrong with a naked body, we all got one? Kids do not to need to be taught to associate nudity with sexuality. As for the F*** word, first time I heard it I was 7 years old and when some kid explained what it meant I thought it was the funniest thing I had ever heard. Yuck, who would want to do that? ??? Took me a while to catch on but I don't think it ever factored into in my own personal corruption. ;)
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OK, now back to your regularly scheduled programming....
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Keep on topic friends!
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The main issue is not about Crash great being a deserving film, but that members of the Academy avoided Brokeback on the basis of it's gay content. Period. Stop the Crash bashing..that is not the issue.
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Sorry, Ethan. :)
I really think there were a number of factors at work. The Hollywood network worked in Crash's favor because there were so many people working on it. Then, there was the big push to get Crash noticed close to the Oscars--whether or not it's "allowed," it obviously happens. Finally, homophobia reared its ugly head. Old Hollywood in particular seems to have taken it as a personal affront that anyone would make a "gay cowboy" movie, as though it's a slur against John Wayne or Clint Eastwood. Makes no sense to me, but clearly Hollywood isn't as open-minded as they pretend to be.
camom
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Lions Gate spent 4 million dollars after the nominations on campaigning!!!!! We saw the Brokeback ccrowd was hardly out with the media!
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Crash shouldn't even have been nominated, much less won. It is a two-star movie at best. It fails on a narrative level, because when you have an ensemble cast that large you need to spend more than 100 minutes telling their stories. Most of the actors got about 5 or 10 minutes of screen time, with Cheadle, Howard and Dillon getting maybe 15. For a movie with a cast that large to work, it needs to be considerably longer (see Altman's Short Cuts and Anderson's Magnolia, both much better films).
Crash also fails as a message picture. While appearing to be deep, the message was basically, to quote that lameass song Ebony and Ivory, "there is good and bad in everyone." The sexist racist cop played by Dillon loved his father and helped the woman out of the car. The otherwise noble detective played by Cheadle lumped all Latinos/Hispanics together. This message -- that people are complicated -- is obvious and simplistic. And does anyone buy that the racist DA wife played by Bullock is going to change her ways and appreciate that the maid she abuses is her best friend merely because one of her spa diva friends was not available after she suffered a very minor accident?
Some of the acting was cringe-inducing, especially Phillipe, Fraser and Bullock.
I think that this movie got all of this attention because it is the first major release to deal primarily with race since Do the Right Thing. But Do the Right Thing was a much better picture. Further, Hollywood types like to pat themselves on the back for being "progressive" and "socially aware," so they couldn't resist supporting something that superficially appears to embody these qualities.
http://chicago.craigslist.org/rnr/139446426.html
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well said
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I'm outraged! Crash??? That's just an ordinary movie, what is so special about it? Nothing.
Oscars suck...
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I do like Crash < I don't want to get into a Crash bash. However, I do feel it's more ordinary.
I feel it's a movie any liberal intellectual could write (who has some skill) BBM on the other hand
was more remarkable, I think partly cause Proulx is in her 70's and has a level of wisdom
that goes past intellect.
On another note, I think I know why it won. First you have the Oprah push and the LA group,
then you have the older academy members who can't really deal with voting for BBM. and thus you have
a narrow win I am guessing.
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I'm french and I've seen Crash ( Named Collision here) in a night Flight and this movie made me doing something I had never done in a plane : It made me sleep. It was so boring, Crash doesn't shows ainythings new, nothings interresting and I was really dissapointed when I saw that it had "stolen" the prize from Brokeback Mountain.
( Sorry for my broken english...)
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I'm french and I've seen Crash ( Named Collision here) in a night Flight and this movie made me doing something I had never done in a plane : It made me sleep. It was so boring, Crash doesn't shows ainythings new, nothings interresting and I was really dissapointed when I saw that it had "stolen" the prize from Brokeback Mountain.
( Sorry for my broken english...)
Hello thibault973, thanks for your posting. Welcome to this forum and enjoy your time. There is nothing best about it. The best the movie's got is the number of voting block.
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Crash shouldn't even have been nominated, much less won. It is a two-star movie at best. It fails on a narrative level, because when you have an ensemble cast that large you need to spend more than 100 minutes telling their stories. Most of the actors got about 5 or 10 minutes of screen time, with Cheadle, Howard and Dillon getting maybe 15. For a movie with a cast that large to work, it needs to be considerably longer (see Altman's Short Cuts and Anderson's Magnolia, both much better films).
Crash also fails as a message picture. While appearing to be deep, the message was basically, to quote that lameass song Ebony and Ivory, "there is good and bad in everyone." The sexist racist cop played by Dillon loved his father and helped the woman out of the car. The otherwise noble detective played by Cheadle lumped all Latinos/Hispanics together. This message -- that people are complicated -- is obvious and simplistic. And does anyone buy that the racist DA wife played by Bullock is going to change her ways and appreciate that the maid she abuses is her best friend merely because one of her spa diva friends was not available after she suffered a very minor accident?
Some of the acting was cringe-inducing, especially Phillipe, Fraser and Bullock.
Racism is an important issue and the subject deserved a better film. The reviewer is right about the muddled characters. Sandra Bullock makes racist statements about Latinos to her husband Brendan Fraser (in front of the Latino locksmith) and later falls down the stairs and then tells her Latina maid that she is her closest friend. Ryan Phillippe plays a liberal young cop who can't handle his racist partner Matt Dillon. After work Phillippe picks up a young black hitchhiker on the way home and when the young kid reaches into his pocket to show him a small statute, Phillippe's character shoots and kills the kid. The Phillippe's character dumps the body and torches his car. And it goes on and on and on.
A secret of good writing, whether it is a novel or a screenplay is "less is more." You don't have to hit your reader over the head with your message - they aren't stupid. You tell them and show them in many different ways. Paul Haggis may have an Oscar for screenwriting but Larry McMurtry and Diana Ossana are much better at it - so is Dan Futterman who wrote "Capote" and George Clooney who co-wrote "Good Night, and Good Luck."
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Crash shouldn't even have been nominated, much less won. It is a two-star movie at best. It fails on a narrative level, because when you have an ensemble cast that large you need to spend more than 100 minutes telling their stories. Most of the actors got about 5 or 10 minutes of screen time, with Cheadle, Howard and Dillon getting maybe 15. For a movie with a cast that large to work, it needs to be considerably longer (see Altman's Short Cuts and Anderson's Magnolia, both much better films).
Crash also fails as a message picture. While appearing to be deep, the message was basically, to quote that lameass song Ebony and Ivory, "there is good and bad in everyone." The sexist racist cop played by Dillon loved his father and helped the woman out of the car. The otherwise noble detective played by Cheadle lumped all Latinos/Hispanics together. This message -- that people are complicated -- is obvious and simplistic. And does anyone buy that the racist DA wife played by Bullock is going to change her ways and appreciate that the maid she abuses is her best friend merely because one of her spa diva friends was not available after she suffered a very minor accident?
Some of the acting was cringe-inducing, especially Phillipe, Fraser and Bullock.
Racism is an important issue and the subject deserved a better film. The reviewer is right about the muddled characters. Sandra Bullock makes racist statements about Latinos to her husband Brendan Fraser (in front of the Latino locksmith) and later falls down the stairs and then tells her Latina maid that she is her closest friend. Ryan Phillippe plays a liberal young cop who can't handle his racist partner Matt Dillon. After work Phillippe picks up a young black hitchhiker on the way home and when the young kid reaches into his pocket to show him a small statute, Phillippe's character shoots and kills the kid. The Phillippe's character dumps the body and torches his car. And it goes on and on and on.
A secret of good writing, whether it is a novel or a screenplay is "less is more." You don't have to hit your reader over the head with your message - they aren't stupid. You tell them and show them in many different ways. Paul Haggis may have an Oscar for screenwriting but Larry McMurtry and Diana Ossana are much better at it - so is Dan Futterman who wrote "Capote" and George Clooney who co-wrote "Good Night, and Good Luck."
Well said, the less is more aspect is what gets me. I love Brokeback for not having to hit me over the head. Plus each shot is like a form of artistry, even to Jack's sad little childhood room.
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And does anyone buy that the racist DA wife played by Bullock is going to change her ways and appreciate that the maid she abuses is her best friend merely because one of her spa diva friends was not available after she suffered a very minor accident?
By the way, the whole "oh you're my maid but do you know what, you're my best friend" is SO Driving Miss Daisy!
And the "snow in LA" scene where everyone reflects is just like the "frogs" scene in Magnolia!
I would hope that a Best Picture would be somewhat original!
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Good Grief - As my Bubba pointed out, Crash ain't nothin' but a re-work from Robert Altman...loooks more like trash to me.
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...loooks more like trash to me.
And if you query Google it calls it the same thing, "Trash". LOL
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Crash is such a horrible movie. If anything, it only reinforces stereotypes. If you notice in the beginning of the movie there is an asian woman who gets in a car accident. I hate how Crash brings closure to everyone except for the Asian couple. Thanks Paul Haggis for being a discriminating asshole.
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Actually, the Asian couple are at the end of the film..the wife was in the beginning of Oscar's 2005 winner, while the husband was the human trafficker run over by our intellectual car jackers. They reunite in the hospital just in time to cash his check for the passengers in his van. I do not blame you for missing that connection..there is so much crammed into this film. But at least we learned that racism is B A D.
:o
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I saw Crash today, and I think it was most definetly NOT worthy to win Best Picture
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Individuals in the media and elsewhere are realizing that Crash was designed to make whitey feel better about racism in general. Here's my opinion on the film.
I have no problem with the talented actors who crowd this film. The story is implausible. Overall message, we are all racist but really, really good super nice, too! In brief, the white DA, his wife, and young racist cop get or get away with everything they want. Both the African-American Detective and the TV Producer sacrifice their integrity to keep their jobs and their white bosses happy. The store owner gets away with attempted murder as the Locksmith does not call the police after his daughter---wearing a magical protective cloak---is shot in the back by blank bullets. (I know.) The TV producer's wife is molested by a white racist cop... the following day they meet again (fortuitous) so the cop can save her in order to redeem himself. She disappears from the film (until a tidbit at the end) as her role in HIS redemption is complete. The racist cop sacrifices his own father's help because he does not seem to realize what an ER is for and he sabotages his Father's medical care on order to punish a HMO worker for taking jobs of whites...how many times have you seen that one on TV? Speaking of rip-offs, the DA's wife actually steals from Driving Miss Daisy when she inexplicably says to her maid, "You're my best friend." Most of all, Ludikris smiles smugly after he releases illegal immigrants the back of a van he stole from a human-trafficker he drove over earlier in the film. That smug smile is for the viewer share with the carjacker: a sense of.."ah, we are all such good people, and its good to know that racism is still a problem, but we can all get along can't we?" try saying "I think we Crash into each other,just so we can touch each other," three times without laughing out loud. Then, after your next car accident, let you insurance company know you were just reaching out to touch the other driver. Forget DUI, sleeping, talking on the cell, or slick roads as causative. Crash and burn!!!!
If you think Crash is a great message film ...,"You embarrass me, you embarrass yourself!!" BTW, the next time you are being carjacked, try that line and see what happens..better have your magic cloak on just in case!
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bnjmn3, thanks for the review. Sounds pretty dramatic to me and I think that is what the academy was voting for being the best drama movie. I am so over the oscar and it bears no relevance to me whatsoforever.
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I think BBM don't lose anything, the oscar was for crash a poor movie without nothing to give, by the way crash it's a bastard copy from the mexican film "Amores perros" and the prove than the academy it's everything but less really, BBM it's a most sophisticared a honest history and i sure the next year when Brokeback mountain still in our memories nobody will remember "that film" who won the oscar
PD Please forguive my english i'm working to improved O0
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crash i saw it to it wasn't that good k a movie about racist people and guns and cars and people dieing compared to bbm love story gay cowboys great actors wonderful script great director,etc urrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrg the academy is gonna pay ^^)
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I hope I don't open new wounds here, but I just saw Crash with my brother who was visiting over the weekend. OMG, we felt it was sooooo contrived and over the top, and we actually chuckled at some of the scenes. It was an OK movie, don't get me wrong, but certainly not worthy of Best Picture. The Academy definitely has something stuck in its behind and likely was trying to make a point. Maybe they felt that they will be viewed as empathetic to minorities, I don't know. It felt like the kind of movie that was made to nudge closet bigots into couch human-rights/equality advocates... ^*) :s) What's ironic was that my brother (who works in the legal department for HBO) was enroute to LA to meet with Sandra Bullock's lawyers regarding a letter threatening a lawsuit for using her image in promoting HBO without her consent. My brother said to me that maybe Sandra would have a Zen moment like in the movie (Crash), and retract her demand letter. LOL :8