Brokeback Mountain Forum @ ennisjack.com
The Movie & Story => Characters, Quotes & Scenes => Topic started by: johnboy on Mar 06, 2006, 09:07 AM
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Its puzzeled me for sometime, Jack stole Ennis's shirt and kept it at his parents house, why ?, if it was me they would be back in Texas where I could take hold off and remember Ennis and the summer of 63 up on brokeback, after all he only returned to the farm once a year to help out.
Hope this hasnt been asked before, any idea guys ?
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I think it was because his childhood home remained a fixed point throughout his life. The fact that he appreciated his mother keeping it the way it was when he was a boy corraborates this view.
The room was Jack's inner sanctum of sorts, and the corner in the closet was the Holy of Holies. I cannot imagine Jack's father frequenting his room -- given his remoteness to his son and a probable preference for the outdoors on the ranch.
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Also, when the boys left Brokeback, Jack went directly to his parent's house... he didn't have another home. Of course, he had the shirts with him at that time. His next time out was on the rodeo circuit, and he certainly wouldn't have take the shirts with him, so the shirts remained in the little closet. Allan
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There is also I think a notion of "out of time":
He knows his room will always stay like it is, forever.... such as his love for Ennis.
In Texas the shirts wouldn't have had the same meaning. And there would have been a rosk that Lureen find them. At his parent's house, only his mother could find them, but as he talked about Ennis to them, I suppose his mother would have understand the importance of the shirts. (And maybe she knows well they're here).
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now this is one of many reasons I love this forum: I've seen the film 5 times and the question of the shirts never entered my brain; but after reading these posts, I had a whole new train of thoughts going and it was exciting, as if adding bits and pieces from my mind's eye to the film, and I recalled the moment Ennis says to Jack "can't believe I left my damn shirt up there...." and Jack just asks, "you gonna do this again next summer?" ... and then I pictured Jack returning home after the first summer on BBM and caressing the shirts himself before carefully hanging them in the back closet! Thank you for your thoughts everyone.
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I actually thought of that, but it makes sense, his Mom wouldn't bother them and
Lureen might find them at his house or throw them out etc.
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There is also I think a notion of "out of time":
He knows his room will always stay like it is, forever.... such as his love for Ennis.
In Texas the shirts wouldn't have had the same meaning.
And, he would have been carrying the shirts around with him for 3 years before he met Lureen.
No, they were safe in his parents home, that was the best place for them.
Can any of you picture Lureen doing laundry? I can't.
At his parent's house, only his mother could find them, but as he talked about Ennis to them, I suppose his mother would have understand the importance of the shirts.
There was no doubt in my mind that Jack's mother knew about the shirts and their meaning.
Think of her tone and the look she gave Ennis when she said to Ennis, "I kept his room like it was when he was a boy (19?). I think he appreciated that (not touching the shirts?)."(pause and a look that said, YES GO UP THERE) "You are welcome to go up in his room, if you want." (note, not TO his room, but look IN his room).
Then, when Ennis came down with the shirts she looked at them and nodded and immediately got a sack. She didn't ask any questions as to why he was taking her son's shirts. She KNEW one of them was Ennis'.
On a side note and I hope not too off topic although this does pertain to the shirts. Did anyone notice when Ennis came down stairs he was carrying the rolled up shirts in his right hand almost in front of him. The father turned and looked at the shirts and Ennis immediately moved them toward his right side, as if to say, 'You ain't getting these you old bastard so don't say a word.'
I love Jack's Mom!! :-* :'(
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Did anyone notice when Ennis came down stairs he was carrying the rolled up shirts in his right hand almost in front of him. The father turned and looked at the shirts and Ennis immediately moved them toward his right side, as if to say, 'You ain't getting these you old bastard so don't say a word.'
Thanks for pointing that out, Patriot1, I noticed that too. Another example of all the unspoken communication taking place at the Twist house. All the actors really hit their marks in that scene - bravo!
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Well i think that Jack room was the place because as everybody said it was the place that was more safe for his love, it was the place that he was thinking to bring Ennis he was planing to build a ranch near his parents house so he was trying to keep his most important belongings, Ennis of course was his most important one. Usually our parents houses are the places that are more important to us because they carry the story of our begnings and we have them in most of the time what we most loved there....
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Patriot 1; thanks for your comment about the rolled up shirts: I just thought of something.....maybe Ennis had taken the carving of horse and rider from Jack's desk and rolled it up in the shirts; remember in an early tent scene Ennis is carving a horse! I wonder if he finished it and gave it to Jack........and then Jack put a rider on it!...... Oh, the detail that set us off!
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There was no doubt in my mind that Jack's mother knew about the shirts and their meaning.
Think of her tone and the look she gave Ennis when she said to Ennis, "I kept his room like it was when he was a boy (19?). I think he appreciated that (not touching the shirts?)."(pause and a look that said, YES GO UP THERE) "You are welcome to go up in his room, if you want." (note, not TO his room, but look IN his room).
Then, when Ennis came down with the shirts she looked at them and nodded and immediately got a sack. She didn't ask any questions as to why he was taking her son's shirts. She KNEW one of them was Ennis'.
On a side note and I hope not too off topic although this does pertain to the shirts. Did anyone notice when Ennis came down stairs he was carrying the rolled up shirts in his right hand almost in front of him. The father turned and looked at the shirts and Ennis immediately moved them toward his right side, as if to say, 'You ain't getting these you old bastard so don't say a word.'
I love Jack's Mom!! :-* :'(
This is too beautiful for words.
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Patriot 1; thanks for your comment about the rolled up shirts: I just thought of something.....maybe Ennis had taken the carving of horse and rider from Jack's desk and rolled it up in the shirts; remember in an early tent scene Ennis is carving a horse! I wonder if he finished it and gave it to Jack........and then Jack put a rider on it!...... Oh, the detail that set us off!
Well, you know Stephen, the horse has been a puzzlement to me. We do see Ennis carving a horse (and maybe eventually a rider) at the beginning of the movie. And, the horse on Jack's desk COULD be that horse when it was finished. When Ennis picked it up he did cry after all. BUT we never see the horse again. If Ennis had taken it from Jack's parents house I am sure he would have put it in some place of prominence in the trailer, but we never see it again, so, I am just not sure he took it.
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Once again a thread that turns into so much more than I thought it might. I had not come here because in seeing the title I thought "well, of course they were at his parent's house because he took them there after that first summer." But there's so much more to this thread!
Patriot1, your comments are especially keen and meaningful.
One thing I noticed and wondered about with the shirts. Ennis seems to nearly always wear a patterned shirt (plaids, generally) and Jack wears solids. I'm not going to go and start deconstructing this for meaning (!) but I wonder if that was done on purpose? Did the costumers see something different in the two? Was it a device to help us recognize that one shirt was Jack's and the other Ennis'? Was it a way for us to understand that Mrs Twist recognized that the second bloody shirt wasn't Jacks too?
Might be an inconsequential detail (are there any in this film?) but it seems rather consistent that Jack wears solids and Ennis doesn't.
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Was it a device to help us recognize that one shirt was Jack's and the other Ennis'? Was it a way for us to understand that Mrs Twist recognized that the second bloody shirt wasn't Jacks too?
Ennis' cloths are more plain than Jacks, I think in a way to distinguish the money situation and the life within... jack is more colorfull and vivacious.
Had I been jacks mum I woulda washed those shirts thinking they were both jacks...so I think she knew :)
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Had I been jacks mum I woulda washed those shirts thinking they were both jacks...so I think she knew :)
Another excellent point.
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Patriot1, your comments are especially keen and meaningful.
One thing I noticed and wondered about with the shirts. Ennis seems to nearly always wear a patterned shirt (plaids, generally) and Jack wears solids.
Thanks for the nice complement dalemidex. Much appreciated.
As for the color or pattern in the shirts; I wouldn't put any significance it that. Neither the story, the screenplay or the movie give any indication that means anything. Besides, Jack doesn't always wear solids. If you will remember he wore a large plaid shirt the third year he went to Aguirre for a job. I didn't check out the rest of the movie to see if there were any other times.
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I'd forgotten about the plaid shirt in in Aguirre's trailer the next summer. Thanks!
You know it might just be that with Jack's complexion he looked better in denim shirts and the like, including that purple shirt he wears in the parka scene. Devastating -- Jake should wear this color! :D
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Thanks guys for all the replies, I thought Jack wore the shirt after the summer up on Brokeback, will have to go back and check film, I find it hard to believe Jack only got to see / hold the shirts once a year, even more so once they had rekindled their relationship.
Jack's mum would of known straight away the other shirt was not Jack's, its not as if he had a wardrobe full of clothes, just what he stood up in more or less, bless him.
I love Jack's Mom to
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I'd forgotten about the plaid shirt in in Aguirre's trailer the next summer. Thanks!
You know it might just be that with Jack's complexion he looked better in denim shirts and the like, including that purple shirt he wears in the parka scene. Devastating -- Jake should wear this color! :D
Actually dalemidex, I like what he wore in the second tent scene the best!!!
;) ;D :o :-* ;D
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...I thought Jack wore the shirt after the summer up on Brokeback, will have to go back and check film,...
I don't think so johnboy. For one thing, it was covered in blood.
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I'd forgotten about the plaid shirt in in Aguirre's trailer the next summer. Thanks!
You know it might just be that with Jack's complexion he looked better in denim shirts and the like, including that purple shirt he wears in the parka scene. Devastating -- Jake should wear this color! :D
Actually dalemidex, I like what he wore in the second tent scene the best!!!
;) ;D :o :-* ;D
Can't argue with you there!!
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Actually dalemidex, I like what he wore in the second tent scene the best!!!
;) ;D :o :-* ;D
Can't argue with you there!!
Actually dalemidex, I didn't think you could...or would. ;D ;D ;D
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Hello friends. Oh wow, thank you so much for your thoughts on this subject. I have to confess that I never gave the shirts much thought in spite of the fact that the scene of Ennis finding them killed me beautifully each time.
Patriot1 : now I realise that I love Jack's mom too. She must have known.
No, I can't see Lureen doing laundry. She would have thrown them away.
If I can fantasise further : in August of '63, when Jack didn't have a job, he stayed a bit with his parents at that ranch. So he had a few weeks of touching them and reliving his time with Ennis. It's where his love for Ennis grew even though they were apart. That room sort becomes a part of his love for Ennis, together with the mountain.
Stephan
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Yes, Stephan, that is an interesting subtext; Jack had the shirts and time to brood and savour the Brokeback experience, to dwell on it and to make it a permanent part of his soul, whereas Ennis was married, raising a family soon after the summer on Brokeback, busy and preoccupied, though he thought of Jack often......so after 4 years, for reasons we can only guess at, Jack makes the overture to reunite! Oh, I'd love to know what inspired Jack to send his card after 4 f******years!
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Yes, Stephan, that is an interesting subtext; Jack had the shirts and time to brood and savour the Brokeback experience, to dwell on it and to make it a permanent part of his soul, whereas Ennis was married, raising a family soon after the summer on Brokeback, busy and preoccupied, though he thought of Jack often......so after 4 years, for reasons we can only guess at, Jack makes the overture to reunite! Oh, I'd love to know what inspired Jack to send his card after 4 f******years!
Oh Stephen!!! Did you miss that also???
Jack was dancing with Lureen at the bar. Jack and Lureen were dancing and talking, the music was "No One's Gonna Love You Like Me." When the music got to the part that says, "I know sometimes you felt so sad and lonely..." the camera is on Jack's face and you can see he misses Ennis and is getting sad. But, right then he has a mission. He needs to get Lureen interested enough in him to marry him. Her daddy is rich.
He has a baby (normally a happy occasion) but his wife and her parents exclude him from the happy moment so he leaves the room sad and alone.
I believe (although there is no evidence to support this) he then starts sending post cards to various towns to General Delivery looking for Ennis. The only evidence for that theory is his post card that says, "Drop me a line say if your there." This might indicate he had sent several cards to several places.
Ennis answers!!!! Oh Happy Days!!! [tissue please :'( :'( ]
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Oh Patriot, you certainly have a wonderful imagination and keen insight into details! Yes, all you say adds up to an impassioned impulse for Jack to reclaim Ennis! I'd never thought of the implications of the "general delivery" post card! Poor Jack; even his well intentioned family life shut him out. It's been a long time since I hated someone as much as I hated Jack's father in law! Stephen (not Stephan)
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Stephen (not Stephan)
I am so sorry Stephen! Allow me to blame it on a senior moment.... or fat fingers. :-* X
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About the shirts being at Jack's parents home all this time, I myself don't think that there is much secondary thought "behind" this.
After that first idyllic summer together with Ennis on BM, Jack went on the rodeo circuit...he was travelling alot...had no real "permanent home" of sorts... Just moving from one spot to the next. I just think that it was practical and essential for him to travel "light"...and because the shirts meant so much to him, he knew that leaving it at his parents home, they would stay most safe there...
I also know this from my own personal experience...while still studying, and travelling the world...before finally settling down and eventually getting a place of my very own...I always sent things that I had collected along the way...things that I treasured, and which I knew that I would always want to keep...(back) to my "family home". I just think that Jack did that too.
Personally, I also don't think that Jack married Lureen for her money. I don't think that he was that kind of guy. I think that he did it because he probably felt something for her when they first met ("I just like the direction you're goin' in"). Perhaps he loved the attention he got from her at the start~~she kind of "went after him" aggressively when they first met: ("What are you waitin' for? A mating call?") And maybe, also a little bit because it was what people expected a young man to do in the '60's...(eventually settle down and get married...) Perhaps, it was a half-assed attempt of trying to "fit-into" the heterosexual environment he found himself in.
In the scene with Ennis and Jack's parents, Jack's father mentions Jack's plan of moving back to help get the ranch in shape and to build a little cabin in Lightning Flat for Ennis and himself. It could just possibly be that Jack had always had the intention of moving back there and taking over the spread one day...(with Ennis...later with Randall...). This could also be another reason why he always left the 2 shirts hanging there in his childhood room. It was always his intention to return there one day...
But that's just what I think...
sam
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Personally, I also don't think that Jack married Lureen for her money. I don't think that he was that kind of guy. I think that he did it because he probably felt something for her when they first met ("I just like the direction you're goin' in"). Perhaps he loved the attention he got from her at the start~~she kind of "went after him" aggressively when they first met: ("What are you waitin' for? A mating call?") And maybe, also a little bit because it was what people expected a young man to do in the '60's...(eventually settle down and get married...) Perhaps, it was a half-assed attempt of trying to "fit-into" the heterosexual environment he found himself in.
I agree...I just don't think Jack is the type to marry flat-out for money and no other noteworthy motivation.
However, and I know this has probably been discussed elsewhere, I just can't help but wonder if these was a shotgun wedding. The details in the movie have Bobbie being born only about 4 or 5 months after Jack and Lureen meet, but I suspect that was simply an oversight in timing:
--August 1966 Childress Rodeo (It's August, and it's 1966 unless they are showing us scenes out of order because this is after Ennis blows up and the 1966 4th of July fireworks)
--Late September 1967 Jack describes Bobby as being 8 months old. That would have him born in January, about 5 months after the two meet.
Unless Jack mistakenly said "eight months' when in fact Bobby was only 4 or 5 months old, the timing doesn't work out right. (I **don't** think that this is not Jack's son. That's just too important a detail to present in a cryptic way and then go nowhere with it.)
However I do think that the shotgun wedding could be implied even without trying to do the math. The movie shows Lureen going for it with Jack in the back seat, and the very next scene between them shows Lureen with little Bobby. Dates aside, going from a sex scene to a baby scene is often, often a clear way to imply that the child was conceived in that coupling.
Jack could have easily married Lureen because of an accidental pregnancy.
Yikes...I'm getting way off topic here. Sorry!
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Jack could have easily married Lureen because of an accidental pregnancy.
And I don't think it was an accident. I think Jack planned it that way. And I agree with you it was a shotgun wedding. The reason I think it was planned is because there is no evidence he ever slept with his wife again. No other kids in 20 years?
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Jack could have easily married Lureen because of an accidental pregnancy.
And I don't think it was an accident. I think Jack planned it that way. And I agree with you it was a shotgun wedding. The reason I think it was planned is because there is no evidence he ever slept with his wife again. No other kids in 20 years?
I thought about this many times, that could explain Lurren's dad's behavior about Jack. I would not pretend they never had intercourse again after Bobby's birth. From story to screenplay (page71)
ENNIS
Lureen. You and her , it's normal and all?
JACK
Sure.
This was very casual talking in the movie. About he shotgun wedding I'm quite sure but the story leaves so much doors open to interpretation.
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Jack could have easily married Lureen because of an accidental pregnancy.
And I don't think it was an accident. I think Jack planned it that way. And I agree with you it was a shotgun wedding. The reason I think it was planned is because there is no evidence he ever slept with his wife again. No other kids in 20 years?
I thought about this many times, that could explain Lurren's dad's behavior about Jack. I would not pretend they never had intercourse again after Bobby's birth. From story to screenplay (page71)
ENNIS
Lureen. You and her , it's normal and all?
JACK
Sure.
This was very casual talking in the movie. About he shotgun wedding I'm quite sure but the story leaves so much doors open to interpretation.
Oh but Cham, Jack lied to Ennis so much. He wanted Ennis to believe he was "normal."
Jack said he wasn't queer. That was a lie. He looked for other men all the time. He went to Mexico. He tried to pick up the rodeo clown.
Jack didn't tell Ennis they were seen by Aguirre on Brokeback. He didn't want Ennis to get upset and break off their relationship.
He said he was having an affair with the forman's wife when in fact it was the forman.
He wasn't about to tell Ennis his marriage was a sham and his marriage was not normal.
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Jack could have easily married Lureen because of an accidental pregnancy.
And I don't think it was an accident. I think Jack planned it that way. And I agree with you it was a shotgun wedding. The reason I think it was planned is because there is no evidence he ever slept with his wife again. No other kids in 20 years?
I thought about this many times, that could explain Lurren's dad's behavior about Jack. I would not pretend they never had intercourse again after Bobby's birth. From story to screenplay (page71)
ENNIS
Lureen. You and her , it's normal and all?
JACK
Sure.
This was very casual talking in the movie. About he shotgun wedding I'm quite sure but the story leaves so much doors open to interpretation.
Oh but Cham, Jack lied to Ennis so much. He wanted Ennis to believe he was "normal."
Jack said he wasn't queer. That was a lie. He looked for other men all the time. He went to Mexico. He tried to pick up the rodeo clown.
Jack didn't tell Ennis they were seen by Aguirre on Brokeback. He didn't want Ennis to get upset and break off their relationship.
He said he was having an affair with the forman's wife when in fact it was the forman.
He wasn't about to tell Ennis his marriage was a sham and his marriage was not normal.
Very good point indeed!
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Yeah Ang Lee said Jack "Went along with the marriage" implying Jack knew it was a sham, where as Ennis really intended
to have a normal marriage with Alma.
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Yeah Ang Lee said Jack "Went along with the marriage" implying Jack knew it was a sham, where as Ennis really intended
to have a normal marriage with Alma.
Can't help but wonder if Ennis would have married Alma if he thought for one second Jack would contact him again.
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Yeah Ang Lee said Jack "Went along with the marriage" implying Jack knew it was a sham, where as Ennis really intended
to have a normal marriage with Alma.
Can't help but wonder if Ennis would have married Alma if he thought for one second Jack would contact him again.
there's a good point because in the short story he told jack that he shouldn't have let him go from his side and in the movie he was thinking he was upset becuase of the fight they had
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Yeah Ang Lee said Jack "Went along with the marriage" implying Jack knew it was a sham, where as Ennis really intended
to have a normal marriage with Alma.
Can't help but wonder if Ennis would have married Alma if he thought for one second Jack would contact him again.
there's a good point because in the short story he told jack that he shouldn't have let him go from his side and in the movie he was thinking he was upset because of the fight they had
Good thread -- but it shd be renamed Jack & Ennis' relationships, BTW.
My take, evaluating things after a 7th viewing, is that Ennis really couldn't seriously think of a life with another guy. He could have moved away from his tight community but didn't -- during the first motel scene in the book they wonder about what guys do who find themselves in their predicament and Denver comes up as a place to flee to. But this was no reall possibility. I think E expected to be able to live a normal married life (regardless of how practical or not this expectation was!).
Even tho' he says he shdn't have let Jack out of his sights, Ennis never really acts on this. I just don't think he thought of it as a real possibility ever. Even after the opportunity is presented to him in a shiny noo pickup truck FCOL, Jack showing up honking in a cloud of dust asap after getting the divorce postcard.
Jack on the other hand isn't Ennis (as he says in the fight scene). The subtle flirtations with the clown and foreman, which I totally missed at first, say a lot. And don't forget he admits going to Mexico in the fight scene, which is why Ennis goes at him so hard. [The book suggests this admission actually changes their realtionship little since they know the main parameters of each others' lives, even if not the details.]
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Yes, Jack "lies"...but don't forget the "WHY"...
There was so much "pressure" on his shoulders put on by the moral values of the '60's... Don't forget that the story takes place over 40 years ago, and in a rural, rather than urban area!!! Tolerance was then not at the level that it is for us now in 2006...
I think that Jack did what many other closeted gay men might have done in the same situation, and during that same time period...
We make do with what we have at the time...we make choices to the best of our abilities at that moment.
It's always easy to say "after-the-fact": "I should have done this..." or "I should have done that..." instead...
And don't forget that Jack must have been overwhelmed by emotions...
The movie gives us a right good impression of "how it really was"...and that is what gives it such a poignant significance, and makes BBM a historical milestone in Hollywood history.
sam
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Well i find it extremely difficult to watch BBM till the end ... post Ennis's divorce and Jack sent back is ouch :(.. Randall's presence WTF :m}.. confrontation i sob .. Jack's death too much and shirts :_(.. dont even ask
Well in between i have dared to watched till the very end and this question came across my mind .. why did jack keep his brokeback souvenirs .. in Lightning Flat and not in Childress ?? Is there any significance .. is it possible that he had initially kept them at childress then brought them back to LF? Was wondering if keeping the shirts on LF signifies a stronger personal bond or a gradual distancing
.. if this disucssion has already been covered please help me with the thread !
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Well, after he left Brokeback in 1963, he still lived with his parents. He went home to them and hung the shirts in the closet. But that is not the only reason they remained there. He kept them there to keep them safe. His parents' home was the fixed place in his life that stayed the same, where he could go back to time and again, go up to his room, look out that window and dream as he did when was a boy. Everything in his room remained the same...therefore he put the shirts there because his room was the most sacred of places for him. There he kept the one thing that was most important in his life. He kept that love for Ennis safe and in a place where no one could ever take it away or harm it. The shirts are also symbolic because they hang in a closet. Symbolic of Ennis and Jack's relationship which was kept a secret. After Jack passed away, and Ennis went there, he took the shirts out of the closet...he carried them downstairs with him in full view of Jack's parents. For the first time in his life, he didn't care if anyone knew. He was finally open about what he and Jack shared. He took the shirts home with him and kept them in a place that was more open than a corner of a closet...he made it into a shrine.
He finally openly acknowledge the relationship and the love. He had come a long way from his usual reaction when he felt that people suspected...look how he yells at Alma and gets angry at the Thanksgiving scene. He used to feel so threatened when someone dared mention his and Jack's secret...confrontational, defensive. In the end, he doesn't anymore...he doesn't feel he has anything to hide anymore. He finally accepted himself fully, accepted that he'd been wrong to deny Jack the life together they deserved. He realized how much he had hurt Jack, and he realized that it was the best thing that ever happened to him, and he had been wrong to treat something so beautiful as if it was a dirty little secret. I always get the feeling Jack is watching over him in the end...smiling and thinking "I knew he'd come around some day." The shirts had been Jack's way of keeping Ennis in his heart forever, and then when Ennis takes them home and puts Jack's shirt inside his own, it means he is keeping Jack in his heart, in a safe sanctuary for all of time. The center pieces of his little trailer home becomes the two shirts...the memory in his heart of the best, most wonderful thing in an otherwise lonely, difficult, sad life, his true love with Jack.