Brokeback Mountain Forum @ ennisjack.com
Around Brokeback Mountain => Our Support for BBM => Topic started by: Toadily on Mar 09, 2006, 02:09 AM
-
Hey gang,
I propose we be an "anti Crash Bash" site. Instead let's live the spirit of Ennis and Jack and
show love to what matters most.
-
Hey gang,
I propose we be an "anti Crash Bash" site. Instead let's live the spirit of Ennis and Jack and
show love to what matters most.
Why being negative when we could be positive?
I prefer light to darkness, love to hatred, Toadily you have a supporter here!
-
Hey gang,
I propose we be an "anti Crash Bash" site. Instead let's live the spirit of Ennis and Jack and
show love to what matters most.
OK, if you insist [big sigh].
But I want to go on record that I saw Crash way before I saw BBM for the first time and at that time I was telling people that I thought Crash sucked :-)
-
Hey gang,
I propose we be an "anti Crash Bash" site. Instead let's live the spirit of Ennis and Jack and
show love to what matters most.
Yeah, sure. I loved this movie, even I think it's didn't really deserved the "Best Picture".
I saw Crash before I saw BBM, and I always loved this movie, so, I don't see, why I should be now against with this movie. ;)
It's an happy picture at Vanity Fair Party... We can do the same ;)
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg226.imageshack.us%2Fimg226%2F3145%2Fnormal0201aw.jpg&hash=8c2a1943869285bb861ffe9b49188923e7bce79d)
-
Toadily,
Thanks so much for posting this. Guess I didn't have the guts to do it myself. :P Not only does this allow us to take the "high road", but I think it will make our disappointment dissipate faster. I do plan on seeing "Crash" myself, when iI have the time and need a break from BBM; that time has not yet arrived. ;D
-
This is a good post. I saw Crash after I saw BBM, but before the nominations were announced. I thought Crash was okay. It wasn't great, but it was worth the watch. I was very surprised that it got nominated, though. Now that I think back, I was surprised that BBM did, too.
-
I didn't see Crash personally, but I wholeheartedly agree. Criticize it, but please don't bash.
-
Thanks, Toadily for posting this. Yes.
If we bash Crash, we are just as guilty as those bashing for BBM.
This site is all about BBM and our love and support. Cheers. :D
-
I saw Crash two weeks after seeing BBM for the 1st time and I liked it. But I never thought it was going to be nominated, and of course I didn't thought it was going to be a rival for BBM.
-
Thankx toadily
x peace and love as my parents used to say!
-
Wholeheartedly agree! It's not what we express here.
-
I just saw Crash .. Yes it's good ...
But I still don't think it deserved for Best Picture while there's BbM
??? :-[
-
Hey gang,
I propose we be an "anti Crash Bash" site. Instead let's live the spirit of Ennis and Jack and show love to what matters most.
Great post, thank you for saying this. I entirely agree. We don't need negative feelings. The only productive thing we can do now is support our movie even more than before. Not bash Crash. :)
Lost_Girl, nice pic. Thanks for posting it.
-
Wouldn't Ennis say "Shut Up about
Alma Crash. It's not its fault"
It's true. Crash is not the problem. It's the Academy voters (some of them anyway).
-
Good point scruff. Yeah it's not their fault, they made an earnest well meant film and a indie risky one too.
-
Falun dafa teaches us that out of persecution come great humbleness as one need to be thankfull for it is from out of hatred that one can acknowledge where love resides
-
ahhh! I don't like that movie and never will... even if BBM was not in the picture I will still not like that 'Trash' film! Maybe it's not the right attitude but I can't hide my feelings!
>:( ::) >:(
-
Well, that's totally okay. :) We just think we should avoid bashing it all the time. It's kind of a waste of time - time is better spent loving something than hating something else. Negative feelings only bring animosity and more negativity. So let's forget about Crash and come back to what we all love, which is Brokeback Mountain. ;D
-
There are always going to be things we don't like...but we can choose to focus on BBM and what it has brought us (altogether) and it has.
-
i won't bash Tcrash ;D .. when i saw the movie i didn't like it.. not because it won Best Picture! but, i'll try! ;)
-
Ok - for the sake of tolerance, I will try to play nice. (but I still hate that movie for its trendy take)
-
I love this board. ;D
There are always going to be things we don't like...but we can choose to focus on BBM and what it has brought us (altogether) and it has.
Well, you said exactly what I was trying to say, and in a much shorter and better way, too. Thanks. Heh.
-
The prize, as expected, went to Philip Seymour Hoffman for his brilliant portrayal of Capote, but in the months preceding the awards thing, there has been little discussion of acting styles and various approaches to character development by this year's nominees. Hollywood loves mimicry, the conversion of a film actor into the spittin' image of a once-living celeb. But which takes more skill, acting a person who strolled the boulevard a few decades ago and who left behind tapes, film, photographs, voice recordings and friends with strong memories, or the construction of characters from imagination and a few cold words on the page? I don't know. The subject never comes up. Cheers to David Strathairn, Joaquin Phoenix and Hoffman, but what about actors who start in the dark?
Annie Proulx, The Guardian, March 11, 2006. http://books.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1727309,00.html
Exactly!! But!! This sentiment is not only Proulx, it is an industry wide sentiment which was publicly articulated in the weeks and months before the Oscars were even unwrapped, and it continues to inspire heated conversation. Thus this issue, 'acting' awards, the purpose for which we gather, was and is being talked about openly in artistic circles everywhere. It is the primary and principled purpose of the Oscars and it is the responsibility of the Academy to preserve its own integrity by insuring that "campaigning" is done with that integrity in mind. If the Academy can't rely on the integrity of its own members, now 6,000 strong, to vote for nominated films in the manner outlined for them by its own rules and regualtions, then its time to regroup. Perhaps it is time to reduce the size of the voting body and to discontinue the practice of "campaigning" altogether.
Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhal, as actors, portrayed their characters with unequivocal elegance - they nailed their characters. I know this because I have lived the lives of these characters, as many on this board have. I can see and hear and feel with my own eyes, my own ears, and feel it with my own heart and soul. Both of these actors brought to life characters that to our knowledge were gleaned only from the depths of their imagination using the skills of an actor. Certainly, no other dramatic role I have ever seen portrayed anywhere of homosexuals (i.e Maurice, Another Country, Boys Don't Cry, etc.) can even come close to being of any assistance as a model in the development of the characters Ennis and Jack as played by Ledger and Gyllenhal - these were seminal roles never played before, but will be forever used by those that come after them as the model of what it is to be "homosexual" and in love in America.
Go to any LA party, any office, any barroom anywhere and you will have no problem finding people who can mimick Johnny Cash and Truman Capote' they've been doing it for decades. But the question remains, who modeled for Ledger and Gyllenhal the very real and true emotions and actions of two men in love to create a relationship like Ennis and Jack's? The actors here received nothing for their efforts, yet they had to do more real "acting" than all of the other nominees combined !!
Who modeled these characters for them? To our personal knowledge, none! ever! anywhere!
I'm sorry, I don't care if such criticism falls harshly on the sensitive ears of democrats with a small "d," Americans are far to often victims of their own democratic peer pressures, concerned, obsessed, as they are, more with political correctness than "fair" and "honest" assessment of credible artistic work, and this is exactly what Proulx complaint is.
Some here are more concerned with being "nice," than they are with being "fair" and "honest," but I for one have lived too long the life that Ennis and Jack both lived to sit here and worry whether or not it is "nice" to be critical of a system like AMPAS and the Oscars which has clearly lost its way and rewards time and again, foirm over substance, plagiarism over originality.
It takes a very keen emotional and psychological discernment on the part of actors unfamiliar with the emotions and feelings of being homosexual in a suffocatingly oppressive social, psychological and political environmental context, to be able to portray these characters in these roles as these two have. In the alternative, Capote and Cash are characters that most actiors and not just a few pedestrians could play, informed as they are by information and biographies with many, far too many, prior examples of how to play them available. Even fictional characters, the actions of which are modeled from prior efforts of others actors, often operate as a frame of reference for character development for subsequent roles by subsequent actors The Oscars, hopefully, are for Bests in "acting," not plagiarism.
Ledger and Gyllenhal were able to transmit the essence of what it means for a man to be in love with another man, to experience that first real love of one's life, as a 19-year old, and yet be stricken with fear, unable to share that experience with another human being, save the one you that love, and often times, not even then - until its too late ... I swear. Such emotional intensity is on a scale not contemplated by pedestrian straight people, let alone even accomplished actors. Many are incapable of, or too cowardly to, make the attempt. Recall that it did take several years to find two actors to play these roles, but when they did, boy did they!! Most actors are virtually incapable of bearing the excruciatingly oppressive feeling of such an emotional and psychological muzzlement, let alone effectively portraying those feeling, in such significantly meaningful and powerful ways, as to express the devastating and exruciatingly clinically depressing feelings of those who were, or feared being, homosexual, then, and even now; thus, most, that simple majority, have no appreciation for what one must go through in order to survive emotionally, psychologically, socially, and even, physically. And therein lies the challenge for the very pedestrian simple majority of the members of the Academy. The collective voting membership of AMPAS just did not have what it takes, as a body, to "go there."
As human beings we are often left confused and bewildered by that with which we do not identify; taking the easy way out allows us to reward and reaffirm to ourselves our true beliefs, values, and attitudes about that which we already know too well, believing, often falsely, that "we" understand and care. Thus the Academy saw Hoffman getting an "efite intellectual homosexual" such as Capote just right, whereas Ledger is reduced by democratic peer pressure (i.e. campaigning) as just another vanilla Gay Romeo, the character of Ennis hardly registering as a man in the collective consciousness, if at all. The problem here isn't homphobia, it's utter, albeit popular, ignorance; the inability to identify with the characters portrayed in a meaningful way is what ultimately led most in the Academy to dismiss the efforts of Ledger and Gyllenhall, and send the votes of the Academy to something with which they could identify ..... I guess its just a classic case of casting .... pearls .....
-
Okay.. well i was so totally for the
Loathe Crash until the day I day, and to some extent I will.. but I will never like, love, or admire it.. HOWEVER.
Im going to watch it.. and I will do so with an open mind. It would have to be created by a Higher Power to be better than BBM which is highly unlikey but yes.. I will not Bash Crash, but I wont Love it.. I may even end up liking the film, never will i love it though and think it worthy of beating BBM for Best picture however.
-
The prize, as expected, went to Philip Seymour Hoffman for his brilliant portrayal of Capote, but in the months preceding the awards thing, there has been little discussion of acting styles and various approaches to character development by this year's nominees. Hollywood loves mimicry, the conversion of a film actor into the spittin' image of a once-living celeb. But which takes more skill, acting a person who strolled the boulevard a few decades ago and who left behind tapes, film, photographs, voice recordings and friends with strong memories, or the construction of characters from imagination and a few cold words on the page? I don't know. The subject never comes up. Cheers to David Strathairn, Joaquin Phoenix and Hoffman, but what about actors who start in the dark?
Annie Proulx, The Guardian, March 11, 2006. http://books.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1727309,00.html
Exactly!! But!! This sentiment is not only Proulx, it is an industry wide sentiment which was publicly articulated in the weeks and months before the Oscars were even unwrapped, and it continues to inspire heated conversation. Thus this issue, 'acting' awards, the purpose for which we gather, was and is being talked about openly in artistic circles everywhere. It is the primary and principled purpose of the Oscars and it is the responsibility of the Academy to preserve its own integrity by insuring that "campaigning" is done with that integrity in mind. If the Academy can't rely on the integrity of its own members, now 6,000 strong, to vote for nominated films in the manner outlined for them by its own rules and regualtions, then its time to regroup. Perhaps it is time to reduce the size of the voting body and to discontinue the practice of "campaigning" altogether.
Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhal, as actors, portrayed their characters with unequivocal elegance - they nailed their characters. I know this because I have lived the lives of these characters, as many on this board have. I can see and hear and feel with my own eyes, my own ears, and feel it with my own heart and soul. Both of these actors brought to life characters that to our knowledge were gleaned only from the depths of their imagination using the skills of an actor. Certainly, no other dramatic role I have ever seen portrayed anywhere of homosexuals (i.e Maurice, Another Country, Boys Don't Cry, etc.) can even come close to being of any assistance as a model in the development of the characters Ennis and Jack as played by Ledger and Gyllenhal - these were seminal roles never played before, but will be forever used by those that come after them as the model of what it is to be "homosexual" and in love in America.
Go to any LA party, any office, any barroom anywhere and you will have no problem finding people who can mimick Johnny Cash and Truman Capote' they've been doing it for decades. But the question remains, who modeled for Ledger and Gyllenhal the very real and true emotions and actions of two men in love to create a relationship like Ennis and Jack's? The actors here received nothing for their efforts, yet they had to do more real "acting" than all of the other nominees combined !!
Who modeled these characters for them? To our personal knowledge, none! ever! anywhere!
I'm sorry, I don't care if such criticism falls harshly on the sensitive ears of democrats with a small "d," Americans are far to often victims of their own democratic peer pressures, concerned, obsessed, as they are, more with political correctness than "fair" and "honest" assessment of credible artistic work, and this is exactly what Proulx complaint is.
Some here are more concerned with being "nice," than they are with being "fair" and "honest," but I for one have lived too long the life that Ennis and Jack both lived to sit here and worry whether or not it is "nice" to be critical of a system like AMPAS and the Oscars which has clearly lost its way and rewards time and again, foirm over substance, plagiarism over originality.
It takes a very keen emotional and psychological discernment on the part of actors unfamiliar with the emotions and feelings of being homosexual in a suffocatingly oppressive social, psychological and political environmental context, to be able to portray these characters in these roles as these two have. In the alternative, Capote and Cash are characters that most actiors and not just a few pedestrians could play, informed as they are by information and biographies with many, far too many, prior examples of how to play them available. Even fictional characters, the actions of which are modeled from prior efforts of others actors, often operate as a frame of reference for character development for subsequent roles by subsequent actors The Oscars, hopefully, are for Bests in "acting," not plagiarism.
Ledger and Gyllenhal were able to transmit the essence of what it means for a man to be in love with another man, to experience that first real love of one's life, as a 19-year old, and yet be stricken with fear, unable to share that experience with another human being, save the one you that love, and often times, not even then - until its too late ... I swear. Such emotional intensity is on a scale not contemplated by pedestrian straight people, let alone even accomplished actors. Many are incapable of, or too cowardly to, make the attempt. Recall that it did take several years to find two actors to play these roles, but when they did, boy did they!! Most actors are virtually incapable of bearing the excruciatingly oppressive feeling of such an emotional and psychological muzzlement, let alone effectively portraying those feeling, in such significantly meaningful and powerful ways, as to express the devastating and exruciatingly clinically depressing feelings of those who were, or feared being, homosexual, then, and even now; thus, most, that simple majority, have no appreciation for what one must go through in order to survive emotionally, psychologically, socially, and even, physically. And therein lies the challenge for the very pedestrian simple majority of the members of the Academy. The collective voting membership of AMPAS just did not have what it takes, as a body, to "go there."
As human beings we are often left confused and bewildered by that with which we do not identify; taking the easy way out allows us to reward and reaffirm to ourselves our true beliefs, values, and attitudes about that which we already know too well, believing, often falsely, that "we" understand and care. Thus the Academy saw Hoffman getting an "efite intellectual homosexual" such as Capote just right, whereas Ledger is reduced by democratic peer pressure (i.e. campaigning) as just another vanilla Gay Romeo, the character of Ennis hardly registering as a man in the collective consciousness, if at all. The problem here isn't homphobia, it's utter, albeit popular, ignorance; the inability to identify with the characters portrayed in a meaningful way is what ultimately led most in the Academy to dismiss the efforts of Ledger and Gyllenhall, and send the votes of the Academy to something with which they could identify ..... I guess its just a classic case of casting .... pearls .....
Hurleycook, many many thanks.
-
;)
-
I'm going to rent Cr--Cr---Cr- Cr-Crash, this weekend.. just to check it out, and realize how much better BBM truly is.
So yes, this weekend.. I'll watch it..
Lord help me.. LOL
-
Could you please post a review?
-
Yeah I mean we are so biased it won't hold up in court ;) But still. I might rent it again.
-
Yeah I mean we are so biased it won't hold up in court ;) But still. I might rent it again.
:-X I bought the DVD months ago, previewed copy at 6.95$
Don't throw anything at me plize!
-
Sure i'll give a review once i see, though no doubt it will be biased :P
-
Sure i'll give a review once i see, though no doubt it will be biased :P
Don't be please, just be honnest. Crash is a good movie :-X Don't throw things at me please
Be somewhere else cham ::)
-
Ok, I will not go see 'that movie", because the topic isn't of interest to me, however, in the name of fair play, I won't bash the heck out of the movie any longer, for the very simple reason, that I will judge a movie that wants to tug at an inner emotion like BBM does, against the standard set by BBM.
-
Could you please post a review?
Charmeau,
It would be good to read others' reviews of this film when they see it, if they see it, so I hope folks will comment after seeing that film.
While not exclusively a review, the following is my take on Crash which I had posted here back just before the Oscars. So sad to have to say.....the worse came true and neither Heath (long shot, but MOST deserving of the 5) nor BBM (shoo in) nor Jake (should have been a shoo in) got the deserved Oscars.
Warning, if you care, SPOILERS for CRASH here.
Jack in Maine
Many have commented here on the film "Crash" some saying they hadn't seen it.
I too hadn't seen it, but I thought I'd better see it, if only to prepare myself for the worst regarding this coming Sunday evening and our beloved BBM movie.
Crash is SHOCKING and the area in which it is shocking is blunt spoken RACISM. That shocks. And what is also shocking is that this blunt spoken racism is made by characters who we are also shown are kind and nice people. And the reverse is true too, we see ostensibly good people fight against racism in one scene only to later act racist themselves to tragic ends. And that is why there is this buzz about Crash. The whole point of the movie (not the story line per se) is to bluntly confront the audience with the reality of racism (in LA..in the USA). It makes one very uncomfortable at times, for to watch it, creates the impression of participating in it, and for those of us who believe we are NOT racist, it is an uncomfortable experience.
This then is what all the buzz is about, in my opinion.
And while I think that bluntly dealing with this subject is morally a good for society, the film has to have more to it than that to stand the test of time.
Our BBM also confronts the audience and forces thought. In many ways, especially by most of us here on the boards, we gladly participate, because we know the evil and horror the characters suffer and we participate in sympathy. But for many others who view BBM, and who do NOT come here, ie, who simply went to the movie and did not fall in love, likely of that many, a good percentage felt about homophobic violence while viewing BBM as I did about racism while viewing Crash. And that will have either shaken them awake, or turned them off. If the latter, they will dismiss the movie and TRY to forget it.
Back to Crash. Aside from what I've said about the shock/confrontation content of the film, if one attempts to analyze it objectively from the point of view of a crafted piece of film, it isn't anything new at all. It's an ensemble story of many overlapping individual lives. A technique if not actually invented by Robert Altman, certainly most prominently first used by him successfully in his 1975 film NASHVILLE. Then that technique was new and mesmerizing. That film does stand up to time by the way. I loved it and saw it 5 times in one week back in 1975 and TCM just showed it again recently and it still enthralls me.
Robert Altman is the owner of this technique of many overlapping individual stories in one movie. And he didn't direct Crash. So in a sense Crash is a bit of a rip-off of Altman, although others can certainly use this technique.
What I'm trying to say here, is that IF Crash is the up-setter to BBM, it will NOT be because it is a better film, or because it is an exquisitely crafted film or because it is an inventive film. It will win based mostly on the shock content of being confronted by blatant racism.
The other factor which Crash does have going for it is this: As I said in another post, no matter what is being voted on, people who vote, do NOT (always) vote objectively. In fact they most likely vote subjectively. (like I'll vote for him for US President because he's got a hot looking wife....and the like)
In the case of Crash, it was a HUGE cast, and even though each individual actor consequently had very minimal screen time, each of those many actors have many friends in the industry........by it's cast numbers alone and each of their circles of friends, Crash has a lopsided voting block advantage over all the other films which are nominated.
In the end, I would recommend seeing Crash, but I don't think it stands up to BBM from an objective viewpoint at all for Best Picture. However, that doesn't mean I'm not afraid it may win for subjective reasons.
And I suppose it is this thinking of mine here stated, which is behind my own personal fervent wish and hope that Heath Ledger will win the Best Actor award for superbly creating, and biringing living...breathing....lasting...life to Ennis. For while others may argue that BBM is the best picture of the nominations, NO ONE can argue that any of the other performances surpass Heath's.
As I've also said in other posts, three of those nominated Best Actor roles are STUDIED IMPERSONATIONS. If they try to argue that....they are in denial!
Not me! heheh!
Jack in Maine
-
Sure i'll give a review once i see, though no doubt it will be biased :P
Don't be please, just be honnest. Crash is a good movie :-X Don't throw things at me please
Be somewhere else cham ::)
okay, i will give an honest unbiased review.
however, there is a 200% chance the review will end with
"but Brokeback Mountain, was better"
-
Sure i'll give a review once i see, though no doubt it will be biased :P
Don't be please, just be honnest. Crash is a good movie :-X Don't throw things at me please
Be somewhere else cham ::)
No Cham, that's the really sad thing, it is a good movie. It's not a great movie though, but i did enjoy it, and now it's like
that was taken from me. But yes, it's an interesting, well acted, provacative movie. IT's not a masterpiece like BMM, and is
not nearly as remarkable. But I am a big Don Cheadle fan (speaking of Oscars, I thought he way deserved it more than
Jamie Foxx for Hotel Rwanda, but HOllywood likes these mimicing jobs) And I thought it was a brave movie to make etc.
-
I wanna see Crash now because of all the fuss. But guess what! All out at the video store. It's funny b/c months ago when it was still out nobody wanted to watch the damn thing.
-
I wanna see Crash now because of all the fuss. But guess what! All out at the video store. It's funny b/c months ago when it was still out nobody wanted to watch the damn thing.
Crash was all out and my video store last weekend as well.
There was only 5 copies avaliable for it though, because its not in high demand :P
Cinderella man had 11 copies avaliable.
It wasnt even nominated for best picture... hahahahaha
-
Now see Cinderella Man was a great movie, I really like it and it reminded people of how bad the depression was.
It's getting to where few people who lived through it are alive. I lost my parents recently etc.
-
That's why us teacher folk are important...we can keep those era's alive and vibrant!
-
i liked cinderlla man! thats my point, it had more DVDs avaliable for rent than Crash and all 11 DVDs of Cinderella Man were sold out.
I liked Cinderalla man but I cant say it was better than Crash cuz i havent seen it.. though you know im tempted to anyway haha
-
I saw all 5 of the films nominated for 2005. Here's my opinion of the 5, top down:
1) Brokeback Mountain ****
2) Good Night and Good Luck ***1/2
3) Capote ***
4) Munich ***
5) Crash **1/2
I might be just as old as Roger Ebert, but I'm a helluva lot better lookin'! :P
Seriously, I agree with those that say Crash was the bottom of the heap as far as the 5 nominees. I think Syriana was better than Crash, too.
Crash wasn't awful, but just not "O-word" caliber (Ethan might be watching).
Good Night and Good Luck is definitely worth your time - atmospheric, intense, wonderfully acted.
JB :D
-
I saw all 5 of the films nominated for 2005. Here's my opinion of the 5, top down:
1) Brokeback Mountain ****
2) Good Night and Good Luck ***1/2
3) Capote ***
4) Munich ***
5) Crash **1/2
I might be just as old as Roger Ebert, but I'm a helluva lot better lookin'! :P
Seriously, I agree with those that say Crash was the bottom of the heap as far as the 5 nominees.
I think Syriana was better than Crash, too. Crash wasn't awful, but just not "O-word" caliber (Ethan might be watching).
Good Night and Good Luck is definitely worth your time - atmospheric, intense, wonderfully acted.
JB :D
Thanks JB!
About Good Night and Good Luck, they had also the guts to shoot it in black and white wich I guess created that particular atmosphere.
-
i tried not to bash Tcrash but last week i was talking to a friend and he asked me if i saw Tcrash and i said yes and that i didn't like it.. it didn't deserve BP and all that!! u know i don't hate it but i just don't like it.. not my favorite movie and never will!!
-
I saw all 5 of the films nominated for 2005. Here's my opinion of the 5, top down:
1) Brokeback Mountain ****
2) Good Night and Good Luck ***1/2
3) Capote ***
4) Munich ***
5) Crash **1/2
I might be just as old as Roger Ebert, but I'm a helluva lot better lookin'! :P
Seriously, I agree with those that say Crash was the bottom of the heap as far as the 5 nominees.
I think Syriana was better than Crash, too. Crash wasn't awful, but just not "O-word" caliber (Ethan might be watching).
Good Night and Good Luck is definitely worth your time - atmospheric, intense, wonderfully acted.
JB :D
Thanks JB!
About Good Night and Good Luck, they had also the guts to shoot it in black and white wich I guess created that particular atmosphere.
Yeah, cham, the B&W made it feel authentic for the timeframe. The vehicle for the film was Edward R. Murrow's TV show which WAS in B&W. I also read that B&W made all of the cigarette smoke film better. Murrow was ALWAYS shown smoking on TV - which seems VERY odd today. I loved the movie - tho not as much as BBM.
-
Okay guys.. i rented it
its laying there on the counter... its in my house..
im going to watch it tonight with an open mind i promise.. but im actually scared now.. when i held the DVD case it made me shiver.. ok.. i'll give an honest unbiased review when im done..
-
Okay guys.. i rented it
its laying there on the counter... its in my house..
im going to watch it tonight with an open mind i promise.. but im actually scared now.. when i held the DVD case it made me shiver.. ok.. i'll give an honest unbiased review when im done..
Don't be scared. There is nothing Crash can do to you. That is how *good* it is. Enjoy the movie and looking forward to your review.
-
Exactly!! But!! This sentiment is not only Proulx, it is an industry wide sentiment which was publicly articulated in the weeks and months before the Oscars were even unwrapped, and it continues to inspire heated conversation. Thus this issue, 'acting' awards, the purpose for which we gather, was and is being talked about openly in artistic circles everywhere. It is the primary and principled purpose of the Oscars and it is the responsibility of the Academy to preserve its own integrity by insuring that "campaigning" is done with that integrity in mind. If the Academy can't rely on the integrity of its own members, now 6,000 strong, to vote for nominated films in the manner outlined for them by its own rules and regualtions, then its time to regroup. Perhaps it is time to reduce the size of the voting body and to discontinue the practice of "campaigning" altogether.
AMEN Hurleycook! Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaal's performances were the most incredible I've seen on screen, and I think I can safely add EVER. I've read a lot of things the actors themselves said, and they were always very concerned about making things "real", as was Ang Lee...He told Heath and Jake, if you don't believe, no one else will. They were wonderful! I swear Heath seemed to disappear into Ennis...he didn't even look like himself. His body language, facial expressions, and accent were such a believable Ennis. He lived and breathed the character. And Jake Gyllenhall's Jack was equally well done. Everyone always comments on the pain Heath projects as Ennis. And yes he does. But to me, Jake takes his character even further. Over the years I see him become so BEATEN DOWN by Ennis' inability to embrace their love. Gone is the hopeful, exuberant young man he was. And it was more than just maturing, his spirit is crushed.
I can understand how you feel about what the academy did to Jake and Heath. Sometimes I think it hurt US more than it hurt them. To them there will be other "roles" to play. But for us there will never be another "Ennis and Jack".
And I feel your pain and anguish in your words. I hope this forum has brought you some solace. God bless you.
Donna
-
FYI: " the irony of Hollywood and movie distributors " it has been decided that after the winnings of " Crash " at the Acedemy, that it went ahead in re-showing the movie in local theaters here in Vancouver, see how much cash they can suck out the morons who have yet seen it
-
Okay guys I saw Crash.
I will admit that Crash is not, purely Trash.
It is a good movie not great but good, because it raises awareness of racism and prejudice, which is good because racism is wrong and should not be tolerated. However, do I think that it was a better film than Brokeback Mountain? No, it certainly wasn't but it wasn't horrible and I could see why Academy members chose it instead of Brokeback Mountain because it deals with another type of intolerance that they can deal with. Race used to be a hot issue, not so much anymore and a lot of members could probably relate to this.. sadly, most probably didnt even give BBM a chance because of the same intolerance thats shown in Crash, they're quick to judge others and have preconcieved notions that BBM is wrong and gross, when its the opposite.. so thats why I think Crash won. Did it deserve to win? No. I didn't see all other Best Picture nominees but between Crash and Brokeback Mountain, BBM should have it. The way the story unfolded in Crash actually confused me for a while and I had to ask myself what was going on. At times I thought some things were a little over exaggerated and some things we're plain stupid. The acting was good and two scenes were very emotional that I do like a lot. I am still convinced it is not a better picture than Brokeback Mountain, though I will admit that it is not "Trash."
Brokeback Mountain 5/5 stars
Crash 3/5
Thats my honest review of Crash.
-
Okay guys I saw Crash.
I will admit that Crash is not, purely Trash.
It is a good movie not great but good, because it raises awareness of racism and prejudice, which is good because racism is wrong and should not be tolerated. However, do I think that it was a better film than Brokeback Mountain? No, it certainly wasn't but it wasn't horrible and I could see why Academy members chose it instead of Brokeback Mountain because it deals with another type of intolerance that they can deal with. Race used to be a hot issue, not so much anymore and a lot of members could probably relate to this.. sadly, most probably didnt even give BBM a chance because of the same intolerance thats shown in Crash, they're quick to judge others and have preconcieved notions that BBM is wrong and gross, when its the opposite.. so thats why I think Crash won. Did it deserve to win? No. I didn't see all other Best Picture nominees but between Crash and Brokeback Mountain, BBM should have it. The way the story unfolded in Crash actually confused me for a while and I had to ask myself what was going on. At times I thought some things were a little over exaggerated and some things we're plain stupid. The acting was good and two scenes were very emotional that I do like a lot. I am still convinced it is not a better picture than Brokeback Mountain, though I will admit that it is not "Trash."
Brokeback Mountain 5/5 stars
Crash 3/5
Thats my honest review of Crash.
Glad you saw it Dudester, it's only fair if you're trying to compare it to BBM. I saw Capote, Good Night and Good Luck and part of Munich and what I saw was good, so out of the five nominated films I'd put Crash at #5 and of course BBM is a solid #1. In between is Capote, Good Night, and Good Luck and Munich. I don't slight the actors in Crash, the problem is with the script and the direction and the only person responsible is Paul Haggis.
Some people have criticized BBM fans for supporting the movie just because it has a gay love theme and not because of the quality of the movie. That's ironic since Crash supporters always talk about the racism theme in their film and rarely mention acting, cinematography, etc.
-
Some people have criticized BBM fans for supporting the movie just because it has a gay love theme and not because of the quality of the movie. That's ironic since Crash supporters always talk about the racism theme in their film and rarely mention acting, cinematography, etc.
hidesert, that is what supporters can all talk about - the subject because it's got nothing else (compared to other movies), no box office and no major awards. Oh, Crash's got Roeper too. I guess that is it. And we all agree that Best Picture should not have anything to do with subject.
On the other hands, BBM fans have a lot to talk about other than the subject. There is no coincidence for a movie to receive so many recognitions but for Crash it was a coincidence at the Oscar. I am not bashing Crash, am I?
I_D, thanks for providing your review.
-
Yeah I mean we are so biased it won't hold up in court ;) But still. I might rent it again.
:-X I bought the DVD months ago, previewed copy at 6.95$
Don't throw anything at me plize!
We won't , I also remember you not being able to quit the forum , or even that you weren't bothered about watching it or not!! So don't worry we know where your heart is !!!xxx
-
Not to bash 'Crash", but this is the LA Times review of the movie on May 6, 2005. The film is a mess and the reviewer points out the film's inconsistencies and its obsession with one subject, racism. I like her last sentence, "The cast members more than pull their weight, it's just too bad they had to get together for this."
'Crash'[/b]
Racists get equal opportunities to hate in this awkward drama.
By Carina Chocano
Times Staff Writer
May 6, 2005
I'm not sure the best way to kick off a movie that wants to expose the dark heart of the true Los Angeles is to contrast it with "real cities" where "people walk, you brush past people, people bump into you," but that's what writer-director Paul Haggis does in the first few moments of "Crash," a grim, histrionic experiment in vehicular metaphor slaughter.
Graham Waters (Don Cheadle) and Ria (Jennifer Esposito), two detectives in love, are rear-ended on their way to a murder scene, and no sooner has the dazed Graham delivered his soliloquy on urban alienation ("I think we miss that sense of touch so much, we crash into each other just to feel something") Ria and the other driver, a middle-aged Korean woman, start loudly trading racial slurs without even a four-letter preamble. So much for the urban brotherhood of man: In "Crash," there's no getting through a fender bender, casual conversation, business transaction, phone call to mom or naked love romp without someone's ancestry taking a nasty beating.
From here, Haggis, a veteran television writer who wrote the script for "Million Dollar Baby," weaves no fewer than nine sets of characters into a suffocating tangle of ham-fisted ironies and belief-beggaring coincidences designed to reveal the latent racism that festers in the souls of all those who ever laid claim to a 310, 323, 213 or 818 area code. (Yes, you too.) The movie's structure has drawn comparisons to "Short Cuts" and "Magnolia," though it'll feel familiar to anyone who submits to regular cudgelings by "hard-hitting" network TV dramas that wield messages like bludgeons.
Every conflict in "Crash" — even lovers' quarrels — is racially motivated, and having hit on this key to human inhumanity, the director pursues the line with extreme (sorry) prejudice. There may be a million stories in the naked city, but there are something like 20 principal characters in this movie, and they expend 90 minutes of screen time on roughly one topic of conversation.
What really makes you want to screw up your eyes, clap your hands over your ears and belt out a show tune, though, is the nagging feeling that Haggis, a Canadian who has resided in this city for most of his adult life and who suffered a traumatic real-life encounter with a pair of armed carjackers a few years ago, seems to have experienced some misplaced guilt over his lingering low opinion of the gentlemen who took his car, followed by anger at the guilt, more guilt at the anger, and so on. I'm only guessing, of course, but upon meditating on the lives of his assailants — what were they like in their free time, when they weren't sticking guns in people's faces? — the director has written them a funny valentine. They are reborn in his imagination as a couple of charming, clever, philosophical, socially committed young car thieves who, when not busy jacking SUVs, enjoy ice hockey, Merle Haggard and liberating smuggled Asian sweatshop workers into the free market wonderland of downtown L.A.
Anthony (Chris "Ludacris" Bridges) and Peter (Larenz Tate), black men in their 20s, come out of an Italian restaurant in a ritzy neighborhood where Anthony gripes that the black waitress has treated them shabbily. When Peter points out that black men have a reputation for being bad tippers, Anthony confesses that he didn't leave one. This is just the first of about 1 1/2 hours worth of Buddhist conundrums on the nature of racist stereotypes. Anthony, a philosophical sort, sees racism lurking in every corner, even in the gesture of a white woman who takes her husband's arm as they pass.
"We're the only black people surrounded by a sea of over-caffeinated white people and a trigger-happy LAPD," he says. "Why aren't we scared?" It sounds like a good question, until the considerably more chilled-out Peter ripostes with: "Because we have guns?" and within seconds, Jean (Sandra Bullock) and Rick (Brendan Fraser) are scuttling along the sidewalk, having been divested of their Escalade.
If a generalization falls in the forest, and somebody who fits the description confirms it, is it really true? In the case of Rick and Jean, at least, it is. Rick happens to be the district attorney of Los Angeles County, a man apparently incapable of experiencing anything except through the prism of how it will play in the media. After the carjacking, the couple repair home to change the locks and spin the story. Rick frets that being robbed by black men will cost him either the black vote or the law-and-order vote and instructs his aides to locate an African American on whom he can pin a medal. The lonely, bitter, pathologically angry Jean, meanwhile, newly freed from the worry that her racism might have been unfounded, freaks out at the sight of the locksmith, whom she loudly takes for a gang member. Then she snaps at the maid.
It's around this point that the theme of the movie, neatly summarized by one of its characters and encapsulated in the tagline, begins to emerge. "You think you know who you are," the racist cop Officer Ryan (Matt Dillon) tells his green, uninitiated partner. "You have no idea." Actually, in "Crash," you do. Whatever flimsy layers cover the characters' raging 24-hour xenophobia are swept away by the slightest breeze. It's painfully clear to anyone but Jean, for instance, exactly who Jean is. The sensitive, sloe-eyed locksmith, meanwhile, like the warm and friendly domestic, bears his symbolic nobility like a cross. Daniel (Michael Peńa) bears Jean's insults silently, then goes home to comfort his traumatized child, who sleeps under the bed for fear of stray bullets. Soon, Daniel and his family will be victimized by a high-strung Persian patriarch, Farhad (Shaun Toub), driven to the edge by constant (and geographically inaccurate) race-baiting.
Add to this daisy chain of bigotry a Korean who sells illegal Thai and Cambodian workers to sweatshops, a black HMO worker who denies coverage to a sick man because the man's son is a racist, a white cop on his third African American murder, and a member of the D.A.'s office who wonders "what it is" with black people who "can't keep their hands out of the cookie jar," and the film's characters stop seeming like they've been culled from a random cross-section of the citizenry so much as cherry-picked from the top of the class at the Pat Buchanan School of International Relations.
The few characters who aren't culprits are victims, the most discouraging among them Cameron (Terrence Howard), a successful black television director. Cameron and his wife, Christine (Thandie Newton), are returning home from an awards show when they're pulled over by Dillon's racist Officer Ryan and his conflicted young partner, Officer Hansen (Ryan Phillippe). Ryan, a virulent racist, humiliates the director and his wife by viciously molesting her under threat of arrest.
At home, the couple implode. After hanging up the phone without reporting the assault ("Do you really think they'll care about what you have to say?" says Cameron), Christine lashes out at her husband. "The closest you ever got to being black was watching 'The Cosby Show,' " she yells. And he: "At least I didn't watch it with the rest of the equestrian team!" Of course, what with all this horseback riding and "Cosby Show" watching, you'd think they'd have a lawyer too. But "Crash" is too heavily invested in the idea of race as class to allow these two even the slightest sense of security, entitlement or surprise at being so crudely mishandled by the establishment of which they are a part. Instead, Cameron quietly unravels as his whole life reveals itself for the sham that it is. Even Tony Danza, who plays an actor on his show, cows him into humiliating a black costar. How's that for rock bottom?
As another critic once said about another movie bearing the same title, " 'Crash' isn't plotted, it's programmed.' " The logarithm is fairly simple: Money plus power plus a pale complexion equals total inhumanity. (Jean learns the hard way that her only friend in the world is the woman who cleans her house.) Power plus pallor minus money fares slightly better. (Ryan's bigotry is motivated by the suffering of his sick father, who lost his janitorial company when the city began giving preferential contracts to minority-owned businesses, and he gets his moment of slo-mo redemption.) Pallor minus power minus money plus small-town idealism (as embodied by Hansen) gets a kick in the head.
Any glimpse of emotional honesty comes courtesy of the actors, who manage to do a credible job despite the material. The smart, sexy spark between Esposito and Cheadle is all but extinguished by the airlessness of the script, and Cheadle manages to squeeze in some quietly affecting moment as the unloved son of a drug-addicted mother. Howard, an actor who radiates intelligence and sensitivity, fills out his maddeningly reductive character as best he can, though he's never given the chance to do anything but react to the trumped-up pressures around him.
Similarly, Newton is never allowed to come down from the ledge of hysteria, just as Bullock is systematically barred from entry into the human race. Tate and Bridges, as the loquacious carjackers, provide the only breath of fresh air in the movie, but given the film's bird's-eye point of view and its pretensions at objectivity, their charm feels assigned at random. The cast members more than pull their weight, it's just too bad they had to get together for this.
-
Okay guys I saw Crash.
I will admit that Crash is not, purely Trash.
It is a good movie not great but good, because it raises awareness of racism and prejudice, which is good because racism is wrong and should not be tolerated. However, do I think that it was a better film than Brokeback Mountain? No, it certainly wasn't but it wasn't horrible and I could see why Academy members chose it instead of Brokeback Mountain because it deals with another type of intolerance that they can deal with. Race used to be a hot issue, not so much anymore and a lot of members could probably relate to this.. sadly, most probably didnt even give BBM a chance because of the same intolerance thats shown in Crash, they're quick to judge others and have preconcieved notions that BBM is wrong and gross, when its the opposite.. so thats why I think Crash won. Did it deserve to win? No. I didn't see all other Best Picture nominees but between Crash and Brokeback Mountain, BBM should have it. The way the story unfolded in Crash actually confused me for a while and I had to ask myself what was going on. At times I thought some things were a little over exaggerated and some things we're plain stupid. The acting was good and two scenes were very emotional that I do like a lot. I am still convinced it is not a better picture than Brokeback Mountain, though I will admit that it is not "Trash."
Brokeback Mountain 5/5 stars
Crash 3/5
Thats my honest review of Crash.
I thank you for this review, and for being honest about it. It was helpful. :)
-
It's funny, I rented Crash on netflix ages ago and looked and I gave it 4/5 stars. I think it's good, but not great too.
-
Okay guys I saw Crash.
I will admit that Crash is not, purely Trash.
It is a good movie not great but good, because it raises awareness of racism and prejudice, which is good because racism is wrong and should not be tolerated. However, do I think that it was a better film than Brokeback Mountain? No, it certainly wasn't but it wasn't horrible and I could see why Academy members chose it instead of Brokeback Mountain because it deals with another type of intolerance that they can deal with. Race used to be a hot issue, not so much anymore and a lot of members could probably relate to this.. sadly, most probably didnt even give BBM a chance because of the same intolerance thats shown in Crash, they're quick to judge others and have preconcieved notions that BBM is wrong and gross, when its the opposite.. so thats why I think Crash won. Did it deserve to win? No. I didn't see all other Best Picture nominees but between Crash and Brokeback Mountain, BBM should have it. The way the story unfolded in Crash actually confused me for a while and I had to ask myself what was going on. At times I thought some things were a little over exaggerated and some things we're plain stupid. The acting was good and two scenes were very emotional that I do like a lot. I am still convinced it is not a better picture than Brokeback Mountain, though I will admit that it is not "Trash."
Brokeback Mountain 5/5 stars
Crash 3/5
Thats my honest review of Crash.
Thanks for your honnest review Dude. IMO, if crash got the Oscar it's because the Academy passed some serious message to all the producers. Crash was filmed in Los Angeles with a Hollywood crew, US money spent in USA. BBM was filmed in Canada, Hollywood hates loosing money to Canada. Money talks, bullsh*t walks.
-
I saw Crash 2 days ago... finally... I have wanted to see it for awhile, but I really went to go rent it when it won Best Picture over BBM. I had to "see what all the fuss was about." Of course it was checked out everywhere after that. But i finally got my hands on the copy.
I honestly really liked the movie. It was by no means better than Crash. But the message was great and I liked how the directors and writers chose to deliver that message. I thought it was very unique. I think this movie would be a lot easier for the Academy to stomach than BBM. I am sure those academy members who didn't watch all the films (*cough* buttholes *cough*) definitely watched Crash and cut BBM out. Though both issues are hard to swallow, you can watch a movie about racism no matter what, whether you are racist or not. But if you are a homophobe you are not gonna watch BBM no matter what. Some members of the academy are obviously homophobes. I think that is why Crash one. And they were throwing their movie down the members' throats. But o well I am not saying anything we all don't know... We all know what is the best movie of the two and that is all that matters. ;D ;D ;D
-
I saw Crash again at a friends house the other day, and I did enjoy it. It has flaws, and I was bored for the first 10 minutes, but then it draws you in.
It to me is more about the emptiness of LA life, and how that adds to racism. I can see why Academy members might vote for it since they live there. A sort fo cry for help.
Another thought I had is Ang made a comment that apparently got him some hot water, when asked if he was concerned about JAke and Heath's careers after Brokeback, he said basically "I don't care, I just want to make a good movie" and I heard someone at SAG got on his case. It doesn't take much for a ripple effect.