Brokeback Mountain Forum @ ennisjack.com
The Movie & Story => AP Short Story & Screenplay => Topic started by: proulxfan on Mar 15, 2006, 09:55 PM
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One part of the short story still puzzles me and I'm curious as to how others interpret this:"'Jesus Christ, quit hammerin and get over here. Bedroll's big enough'...It was big enough, warm enough, and in a little while they had deepened their intimacy considerably." This is followed by Jack reaching over and grabbing Ennis's hand and, well,... you know the rest. But I wonder what Annie meant by deepening their intimacy...it's suggestive that there was some kind of touching, snuggling leading up to the "big moment". This line doesn't make it into the screenplay. Anybody else have some insight about this??
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They were both drunk ??? If I make any sense, alcohol lower inhibitions.
Foreplay we could see in the screenplay and the movie, 2nd tent scene.
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Cham,
True, the second tent scene has lots. But I am wondering...yes alcohol lowers inhibitions, so do y'all think J & E cuddled a bit that first time before getting down to business? I am asking because when I first saw the film, I thought their sexual encounter came as a complete surprise, but maybe they snuggled together a little bit first... :-\ at least in the story...
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Cham,
True, the second tent scene has lots. But I am wondering...yes alcohol lowers inhibitions, so do y'all think J & E cuddled a bit that first time before getting down to business? I am asking because when I first saw the film, I thought their sexual encounter came as a complete surprise, but maybe they snuggled together a little bit first... :-\ at least in the story...
Not an easy question. Maybe Jack had something on his mind. If I think this still, is not from the story but the movie, Jack's glances at Ennis I mean. About the story I would stick to what I wrote before, they were drunk, Jack was horny and... well ya know what happened.
I can't wait for more comments.
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Ennis came in from the cold to the warmth of the bedroll...aren't we told that one of the best ways to warm a cold body is to warm them with your own body? I can imagine instinctively Jack & Ennis moved close together and stayed that way, comfortably, companionably. Jack made the move, and the rest is just about the most intense sexual scene... So in a way maybe it was foreplay, becoming comfortable in the same space in a way that they did not have the chance for before.
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Having read the short story ---I'd imagined , like others that when E came inside the tent , the warmth of J made him get close and there was some kind of foolin around before they did what came naturally .
I was initially stunned by how quickly things moved and also how real it seemed. Some people I've spoken to would have been alot happier if it hadn't been so direct and so realistic --- but to me it seems exactly what these 2 people would do. E is only going to get past his inhibitions in a sudden explosive way --- and J was ready to go wherever his feelings and needs took him. I did feel like I had intruded on a deeply private moment between 2 people.
This thread also lets me comment on 1 image from the movie that comes regularly into my mind. When E pulls away from touching J (after he has put his hand under the covers ), I love the way J doesn't say a word but by the sheer force of his gaze and holding E head he forces E to confront what he wants and needs. Maybe he knows E isn't ready to kiss him , but the way he puts their 2 foreheads together ,it's like he's saying , " you know what's happening, you want this ".
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This thread also lets me comment on 1 image from the movie that comes regularly into my mind. When E pulls away from touching J (after he has put his hand under the covers ), I love the way J doesn't say a word but by the sheer force of his gaze and holding E head he forces E to confront what he wants and needs. Maybe he knows E isn't ready to kiss him , but the way he puts their 2 foreheads together ,it's like he's saying , " you know what's happening, you want this ".
I like the way you wrote this Jackie62, you make a lot of sense
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I've seen the movie before I read the short story, so I didn't know what to expect, but I was also quite stunned by how fast it happened in the first time. I mean, one moment Ennis was still asleep, and the next... and it seemed to me like Ennis was penetrating too fast which must've been pretty painful for Jack... (sorry if I'm being too graphic here but, well, you know what I mean!!! plus, in the short story - which I've read by now - Ennis uses his saliva for that matter, I don't think he did that in the movie...) I just thought it was too fast.
now, the more I think about it, it makes more sense... they were drunk, which explains a lot, they were impulsive, as if they didn't even think about what they were doing. they were just following their instincts, like animals. that's why they didn't kiss or show their emotions at that point, they didn't express love - only lust. it was only later, after they had time to think about it and process what happened, after Ennis came to realize what he felt for Jack, that they kissed for the first time and expressed all their love for each other in such a magnificent way... this scene is so beautiful, you can see it's still difficult for Ennis at first and he's fighting his emotions, until he finally gives in to Jack's kiss... how I love that part... on God, cold shower ASAP!!!!! :P :P :P
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I think that Proulx and the screen writers were saying is Ennis wouldn't have been open to foreplay at first, he was stunned by his feelings
so he dove in, remember this is Ennis, he fights things.
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I think that Proulx and the screen writers were saying is Ennis wouldn't have been open to foreplay at first, he was stunned by his feelings
so he dove in, remember this is Ennis, he fights things.
I agree!
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I think that Proulx and the screen writers were saying is Ennis wouldn't have been open to foreplay at first, he was stunned by his feelings
so he dove in, remember this is Ennis, he fights things.
I agree!
Agreed. I don't think Ennis would have thought about foreplay, I think it just would have been like the 4th of July...no warning....just all booms, bams, and ahhhhs!
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I think that Proulx and the screen writers were saying is Ennis wouldn't have been open to foreplay at first, he was stunned by his feelings
so he dove in, remember this is Ennis, he fights things.
I agree!
Agreed. I don't think Ennis would have thought about foreplay, I think it just would have been like the 4th of July...no warning....just all booms, bams, and ahhhhs!
*mental image*
thanks Cody :P
(ps where im from it'd be July 1st) HAHAHA!
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whew...is it hot in here or is it just me?
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Another take on "foreplay"... Jack & Ennis are uneducated, they are from ranch country, they are familiar with the behavior of ranch animals... cows, sheep and horses don't know from foreplay, except for maybe a little run around the field or corral. Jack & Ennis don't even know the word foreplay. Jack wanted Ennis hand in his crotch and he put it there, Ennis at first confused and sleepy, did respond animally with an great love scene of such instensity it was unbelievable.
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I think that Proulx and the screen writers were saying is Ennis wouldn't have been open to foreplay at first, he was stunned by his feelings
so he dove in, remember this is Ennis, he fights things.
I agree!
Agreed. I don't think Ennis would have thought about foreplay, I think it just would have been like the 4th of July...no warning....just all booms, bams, and ahhhhs!
*mental image*
thanks Cody :P
(ps where im from it'd be July 1st) HAHAHA!
teehee i love this thread! ;D
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But this just leads me in a complete circle!! Again the question I am asking is, what does Proulx mean by "... they had deepened their intimacy considerably," especially since this supposedly takes place in the "big enough, warm enough" bedroll ?? The wham bam part happens outside of that, after they had "warmed up" :P And again I will specify this is in the context of the short story, not the film. In the film there is no such allusion...
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The line reads "and in a little while, they deepened their intimacy considerably." For me it reads as a forewarning that something is going to happen, not that anything is happening at that moment. You can't leave out "in a little while" - it ties the whole together...
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I don't think that this line has to mean foreplay. It could simply mean that since they were in there together, they grew more accustomed to each other, more comfortable in each other's presence. Enough so , that without any foreplay, Jack felt comfortable enough to initiate a sexual encounter.
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..It was big enough, warm enough, and in a little while they had deepened their intimacy considerably."
Yeah, I was pondering about this too. I could only interpret it in two ways (then I gave up. I'm glad someone brought it up:-) ). One, this sentence foretells what's going to happen next, so it's like a "preview". Two, this is what happened, a completed action - like what proulxfan said - then the "full throttle" thing and "the rest" happen next.
I remember someone mentioned in other thread that Jack may be sleeping nude. Also the "clear slick" thingy that doesn't just *suddenly* appear, also mentioned by some member. So, I can only imagine they did snug real close (spooning perhaps?) and Ennis had some "reactions" in his sleep, and Jack felt it, and then Jack grabbed Ennis' hand, and then ....
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Yeah, I gotta admit I created my own problem by using the word foreplay...that was really kind of a teaser and wasn't exactly what I had in mind...just being comfortable with the physical closeness and possibly having arms around the other for warmth were closer to what I had pictured. And the note about "in a little while" is well taken. It could indeed be a foreshadowing of ...never mind! I won't say it! I won't!!!
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Don't worry, we are all filling in the blanks... imagination is a wonderful thing! And I do believe innately it was a form of foreplay, like you say to get close(r), and more comfortable with that closeness...but we know what happens...hope you didn't mind my earlier post, was just being realistic about how limited their life experiences were, and how it affected their actions. BTW, teasers amke us interested, so guess you accomplished that.
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I think the story and the film do differ a bit there.
In the story i did believe they had started with foreplay and Ennis stepped the pace up. I think the foreplay would have been pretty basic and in keeping with 2 horny 19 yr old country boys.
The story also seems to suggest that on waking the next morning , Ennis and Jack were both happy and accepting of what had happened.
In the movie, the immediacy of the sex has incredible power . Most audiences gasp and go quiet or laugh. I don't know why it was filmed in this way but i think it could be to do with suggesting the intensity of the feelings and the only way Ennis could overcome his fears. Then , in the morning there is a strong suggestion as Ennis rides away that he hasn't decided whether to love Jack or reject him. By this stage in the story, we'd already got to " they both knew how it would go for rest of summer ... sheep be damned."
I think the contrast between the 2 tent scenes is genius.
P.S. THANKS TO THE MODERATORS FOR A GREEN BBM --- AS AN IRISH GIRL IT MADE ME SMILE. Want to share my shamrock with Ennis!!!!
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Jackie,
Thanks for those additional insights on the differences in the story vs. the film, on both the first tent scene and the day after. They are handled very differently.
I agree that the 2nd tent scene, which the story doesn't have at all, is perhaps my favorite bonus in the film. I enjoy it more every time I see the film, and even enjoy the minor controversy it has created on another thread over just what exactly is being whispered, and by whom?? That part of the disc may get worn out when I get the DVD, so I better have a backup copy! :D
BTW Ditto on the green borders, and I'll share my shamrocks with anybody here!!
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Jackie, just don't agree that they were happy what happened, especially Ennis, but I do agree that they were accepting of what happened. They were 2 uneducated ranch hands not entirely familiar with thinking too much beyond the present and near future. Think that any happiness they derived came later in the relationship when they were more comfortable with themselves and each other and their burgeoning love affair.
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Yes --- happy is too strong a word.
I just meant that in the story ,when they woke, "they knew how it would go for the rest of the summer . Sheep be damned." I meant they'd probably already decided this was how things were going to be.
In the movie , Ennis clearly is troubled by what happened and we don't really know what he'll decide. When Jack says "see you at supper",--- he looks away. ( in the screenplay he nods -- not in the movie). One friend ,when she saw the movie was convinced that when Ennis finds Jack later that day and walks over to him holding a gun --- he could have been planning to shoot him!!!!
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In the original story, the "deepened intimacy" indicated what we would call foreplay. And, evidence of that foreplay was the "clear slick" at the head of Ennis' penis.
In the movie, there was no foreplay at all. It was almost like a rape scene with no preparation.
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But this just leads me in a complete circle!! Again the question I am asking is, what does Proulx mean by "... they had deepened their intimacy considerably," especially since this supposedly takes place in the "big enough, warm enough" bedroll ?? The wham bam part happens outside of that, after they had "warmed up" :P And again I will specify this is in the context of the short story, not the film. In the film there is no such allusion...
Everyone's view is the correct one for them. My "own correct view" (to quote some column title!) is this. The intimacy being deepened is the domestic intimacy of camping together for weeks. I tried this idea out and seemed to meet with a lot of agreement on another thread -- see quotes below.
I just don't think, IMHO, that foreplay is part of the prior "intimacy." I know this is an unsatisfying conclusion to my pals who want a rich classic romance before the first tent scene.
I also think that the love scene is meant to be sudden and unexpected. Just don't see any warm up that the other posts talk of. But who knows?
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*Many* scenes express the natural flow towards an increasingly mutual and domestical camp life (I shd say camping life).
Within all the general camping activity like packing horses, whittling in the tent on a rainy day, etc, there are several overt scenes which I think are meant to show a deepening common life. They cook a lot, with the camera pointed at the pan, less at Ennis. There's the Ennis washing scene, they put up a tent, they take it down, they drink often and in detail, from the same bottle; Jack's in the buff washing Ennis' shirt, etc. Jack goes off to pee (book makes a bit of a deal of this).
I think the creators are using these scenes to make the progress to an intimate life seem more likely, "inevitable" Proulx says in the story.
The funny thing is, all the domesticity seems to take the place of overt romantic flirtatious behavior.
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plus, in the short story - which I've read by now - Ennis uses his saliva for that matter, I don't think he did that in the movie...)
He does use saliva in the movie. Someone here also mentions a thread about what was said in the second tent scene. I have been looking for that. If anyone can direct me, I'd appreciate it.
I just took Annie to mean that sometime later they would be more intimate, sexual. Not right now.
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plus, in the short story - which I've read by now - Ennis uses his saliva for that matter, I don't think he did that in the movie...)
He does use saliva in the movie.
He does?? I didn't notice. well, I'll just have to pay extra attention to it in my next viewing... ;) tonight, maybe? ::)
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Watching the movie before reasing the story, I'd say that it either foreshadowed what was about to happen or that it just meant that they were comfortable sleeping together, just sleeping. I think if I had read the story first and then watched the movie, I might have thought that there was some cuddling, but nothing more. There couldn't have been more, because then why would he have pulled away like that? I personally love the way they did it in the movie, including how they presented the next morning.
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I also had the impression, after my 4th viewing of the movie, that Ennis had maybe "warmed up" to the idea of their intimacy while still half-asleep (that's what the screenplay says; he's half-asleep and Jack's "wide awake" when this first tent scene happens) but then when he woke up some more he was startled and tried to pull away. Yet Jack already had some sense (feeling a certain hardness press against his back when he pulled Ennis toward him, perhaps?) that Ennis was aroused and interested, at least physically. That for me is why the "clear slick" is already available and why Ennis so quickly decides to unbuckle his own pants and join in with Jack.
Sorry if my description seems unnecessarily graphic--I actually think this scene is pretty touching, too, since we see Jack take off his jacket and lean in to kiss Ennis, and he pursues that kiss even against Ennis's initial resistance.
BTW, we don't hear Jack saying "gun's going off" in the movie, do we? I've always tried to listen in for that line from the story, but I can't hear it.
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I have listened also and have not heard that. Stupid me - I had never thought of a possible arousal in Ennis prior to the actual act before.
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I also had the impression, after my 4th viewing of the movie, that Ennis had maybe "warmed up" to the idea of their intimacy while still half-asleep (that's what the screenplay says; he's half-asleep and Jack's "wide awake" when this first tent scene happens) but then when he woke up some more he was startled and tried to pull away. Yet Jack already had some sense (feeling a certain hardness press against his back when he pulled Ennis toward him, perhaps?) that Ennis was aroused and interested, at least physically. That for me is why the "clear slick" is already available and why Ennis so quickly decides to unbuckle his own pants and join in with Jack.
yeah, even if there was no foreplay I also think that Ennis was pretty much aroused by then because he responded so quickly, he didn't need much time to overcome his initial resistance and hesitations. BTW, I'm not sure Jack was expecting that reaction from Ennis! he was hoping for his cooperation, sure, but this burst of animalistic passion and the way Ennis grabbed him and flipped him over, I bet Jack was *a little* taken by surprise...
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I also had the impression, after my 4th viewing of the movie, that Ennis had maybe "warmed up" to the idea of their intimacy while still half-asleep (that's what the screenplay says; he's half-asleep and Jack's "wide awake" when this first tent scene happens) but then when he woke up some more he was startled and tried to pull away. Yet Jack already had some sense (feeling a certain hardness press against his back when he pulled Ennis toward him, perhaps?) that Ennis was aroused and interested, at least physically. That for me is why the "clear slick" is already available and why Ennis so quickly decides to unbuckle his own pants and join in with Jack.
yeah, even if there was no foreplay I also think that Ennis was pretty much aroused by then because he responded so quickly, he didn't need much time to overcome his initial resistance and hesitations. BTW, I'm not sure Jack was expecting that reaction from Ennis! he was hoping for his cooperation, sure, but this burst of animalistic passion and the way Ennis grabbed him and flipped him over, I bet Jack was *a little* taken by surprise...
I had no doubt that Ennis was aroused before Jack woke him up. I just didn't think that there had been any actual "foreplay".
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I also had the impression, after my 4th viewing of the movie, that Ennis had maybe "warmed up" to the idea of their intimacy while still half-asleep (that's what the screenplay says; he's half-asleep and Jack's "wide awake" when this first tent scene happens) but then when he woke up some more he was startled and tried to pull away. Yet Jack already had some sense (feeling a certain hardness press against his back when he pulled Ennis toward him, perhaps?) that Ennis was aroused and interested, at least physically. That for me is why the "clear slick" is already available and why Ennis so quickly decides to unbuckle his own pants and join in with Jack.
yeah, even if there was no foreplay I also think that Ennis was pretty much aroused by then because he responded so quickly, he didn't need much time to overcome his initial resistance and hesitations. BTW, I'm not sure Jack was expecting that reaction from Ennis! he was hoping for his cooperation, sure, but this burst of animalistic passion and the way Ennis grabbed him and flipped him over, I bet Jack was *a little* taken by surprise...
I had no doubt that Ennis was aroused before Jack woke him up. I just didn't think that there had been any actual "foreplay".
I agree--I don't think foreplay occurs at all; they're overcome by their mutual lust. The second tent scene and the reunion kiss outside Ennis's apartment show us foreplay. Well, now that I say that, do we think that foreplay occurred after the cuddling we see in the second tent scene, or was a part of that cuddling? For me, I define cuddling as holding one another, stroking faces, etc., while foreplay is more sexually directed--kissing, stroking other parts of the body, etc. In the story, they're pressed tightly together--Proulx says chest, thighs, groins, etc. Seems like foreplay to me.
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I second that motion: forelpay and I think there was probably alot of cuddling after.
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I believe the iniamacy that Ms. Proux was speaking of is the friendship that develops bteween Ennis and Jack. As we women know you can be intimate with someone without ever touching them. (That sounds sexist, doesn't it?) The conversations that they had were intimate, hopes, dreams, etc....When they deepened their intimacy she meant they were finally physical. My two cents worth anyway.
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I believe the iniamacy that Ms. Proux was speaking of is the friendship that develops bteween Ennis and Jack. As we women know you can be intimate with someone without ever touching them. (That sounds sexist, doesn't it?) The conversations that they had were intimate, hopes, dreams, etc....When they deepened their intimacy she meant they were finally physical. My two cents worth anyway.
That's an interesting point--I hadn't thought about that, but I think that's at least part of it. They spend so much time getting to know each other, even taking care of each other (when Ennis gets hurt by falling off his horse, the "no more beans" exchange, etc.), that those moments are a kind of foreplay. :)
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I think that Proulx and the screen writers were saying is Ennis wouldn't have been open to foreplay at first, he was stunned by his feelings
so he dove in, remember this is Ennis, he fights things.
... the story also says, in the first half of that famous sentence which I don't see quoted, but which describes E in a central way, "Ennis ran full throttle on all roads whether fence mending or money spending, [and he wanted none of it when Jack siezed his left hand ...] ...
So thisw all rings true for me ... some alcohol, fear of foreplay at this ealry stage, and a violent approach to intense situations (e.g. Fourth of July scenes), ANDhis character trait of really going for something when he's decided to
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I think that Proulx and the screen writers were saying is Ennis wouldn't have been open to foreplay at first, he was stunned by his feelings
so he dove in, remember this is Ennis, he fights things.
... the story also says, in the first half of that famous sentence which I don't see quoted, but which describes E in a central way, "Ennis ran full throttle on all roads whether fence mending or money spending, [and he wanted none of it when Jack siezed his left hand ...] ...
So thisw all rings true for me ... some alcohol, fear of foreplay at this ealry stage, and a violent approach to intense situations (e.g. Fourth of July scenes), ANDhis character trait of really going for something when he's decided to
For me, this topic is also tied to Proulx's description of the scene in which Ennis holds Jack next to the campfire: "the single moment of artless, charmed happiness in their separate and difficult lives. Nothing marred it, not even the knowledge that Ennis would not then embrace him face to face because he did not want to see nor feel that it was Jack he held." Ennis has to acclimate himself gradually to the ideas of both foreplay and cuddling--but the desire to do so is definitely there.
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One part of the short story still puzzles me and I'm curious as to how others interpret this:"'Jesus Christ, quit hammerin and get over here. Bedroll's big enough'...It was big enough, warm enough, and in a little while they had deepened their intimacy considerably." This is followed by Jack reaching over and grabbing Ennis's hand and, well,... you know the rest. But I wonder what Annie meant by deepening their intimacy...it's suggestive that there was some kind of touching, snuggling leading up to the "big moment". This line doesn't make it into the screenplay. Anybody else have some insight about this??
Here's my take:
"...and in a little while they had deepened their intimacy considerably" - insert implied message here - 'by which I mean' - and she goes on to explain just exactly how they deepened their intimacy. And in this case, I think intimacy only implies physical intimacy - they had quick, frantic sex. I don't think any amount of foreplay is implied. And as to the 'clear slick', it can show up pretty quickly (my turn to apologize for being graphic) and let's remember these are 19 year old guys we're talking about - arousal itself can take place pretty quickly! It all seemed pretty natural to me.
That having been said, on a personal note, I like how it played out on screen better than in the book. Just something about the wonderful way it was filmed. Great scene! Anyway, that's my two cents.
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I believe the author did not mean physically intimate. She was referring to all the conversations they had previously had. They even exchanged the names of their boyhood dogs! These two knew more about each other than anyone else. I'm sure they revealed their hopes and dreams; their fears and worst nightmares that had come true. For E, it was losing his parents and not finishing high school. For Jack, it was having that horrid father and having that bathroom scene from the book imprinted on his psyche. Ennis was getting married in two months to Alma and I'm sure he hadn't revealed many things to her that he revealed to Jack. I just realized that as I write this, by the time the tent scene happened, they had fallen in love with each other, unbeknownst to themselves. Oh Wow!!!
I felt the tent scene was very real. Come on!! These guys were 19. Ennis and confessed to Jack he was a virgin in the Water Walking Jesus singing scene, remember! I don't believe it takes much to arouse a 19 year old virgin!!!
How do we quit this BBM syndrome??? I'm not sure I want to, but I can't keep perusing these sights every night!
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I believe the author did not mean physically intimate. She was referring to all the conversations they had previously had. They even exchanged the names of their boyhood dogs! These two knew more about each other than anyone else. I'm sure they revealed their hopes and dreams; their fears and worst nightmares that had come true. For E, it was losing his parents and not finishing high school. For Jack, it was having that horrid father and having that bathroom scene from the book imprinted on his psyche. Ennis was getting married in two months to Alma and I'm sure he hadn't revealed many things to her that he revealed to Jack. I just realized that as I write this, by the time the tent scene happened, they had fallen in love with each other, unbeknownst to themselves. Oh Wow!!!
I felt the tent scene was very real. Come on!! These guys were 19. Ennis and confessed to Jack he was a virgin in the Water Walking Jesus singing scene, remember! I don't believe it takes much to arouse a 19 year old virgin!!!
How do we quit this BBM syndrome??? I'm not sure I want to, but I can't keep perusing these sights every night!
Welcome rug52861. Your first post here is a great one for me. I, for some reason, never thought about all the things they must have talked about. You are correct, they probably told each other things that Ennis never told his own brother. Very good observation. Hmmmmm.....I just have to rethink Ennis.
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How do we quit this BBM syndrome??? I'm not sure I want to, but I can't keep perusing these sights every night!
Oh! I think the solution is to marry some guy who loves BBM also and then he can get on the forum one night and you the next. That way you cut your time in half. Of course while he is on the forum you can sit behind him and watch. ;)
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How do we quit this BBM syndrome??? I'm not sure I want to, but I can't keep perusing these sights every night!
Oh! I think the solution is to marry some guy who loves BBM also and then he can get on the forum one night and you the next. That way you cut your time in half. Of course while he is on the forum you can sit behind him and watch. ;)
...and maybe snuggle with him while you're at it, you know, put your arms around him, nuzzle him a bit and hum some half-remembered song in his ear...
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How do we quit this BBM syndrome??? I'm not sure I want to, but I can't keep perusing these sights every night!
Oh! I think the solution is to marry some guy who loves BBM also and then he can get on the forum one night and you the next. That way you cut your time in half. Of course while he is on the forum you can sit behind him and watch. ;)
...and maybe snuggle with him while you're at it, you know, put your arms around him, nuzzle him a bit and hum some half-remembered song in his ear...
Well you know Proulxfan, I thought of that... and more, but figured if that happened neither of us would ever be on the forum for more than a minute a night. :o
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Well, that would just force you to be very concise! :D :D And the forum, blessed though it be, isn't everything. ;)
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I think that depening their intimacy only means they lay very close to eachother... they hadn't touched apart from the handshake at the first meeting outside Aguirres trailer, and when Jack tried to clean Ennis wound after the bear incident. Even that last time I am not sure it was more than fingers brushing quickly...
They lay next to eachother sleeping, Jack mayby arching slowly closer to Ennis over a certain amout of time so that when he did reach over they were right next to eachother. ... look at the scene in the film... it pans over them and you see that Jack has alot of bedroll on his side... It was cold... They got warm... thats my opinion.
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i really dont know i would have like to see some cuddling before the sex scene but whatever
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I think they were just sleeping close. In the short story Annie says 'Ennis wanted nothing of it when Jack grabbed his hand and pulled it to his erected <0<k.' Like in the movie, they were sleeping till Jack made the first move. If him and Ennis had been cuddling, i don't think Ennis would of 'wanted none of it'.
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First intimacy began when Ennis finnally opened up and began to talk about himself to Jack. Jack said that is more than you have said in two weeks. They were going close and giving up their inner struggles to one another. That is how intimacy begins.
Jack was sleeping and I think he unconsiously reached over for Ennis' arm to warm himself and bring him closer for warmth but that simple jesture threw them into confronting advancement on the intimacy. Ennis was surprised and a bit angry which when he looked at Jack and saw the love in his eyes he gave into a sudden feeling of attraction and lust. It was like a dance from that first talk when Ennis gave up a part of himself he had never given up to anyone. Isn't that how a love begins first giving up your inner soul and heart before you give the ultimate with your body.
Anyway that is how I see it.
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I think they were just sleeping close. In the short story Annie says 'Ennis wanted nothing of it when Jack grabbed his hand and pulled it to his erected <0<k.' Like in the movie, they were sleeping till Jack made the first move. If him and Ennis had been cuddling, i don't think Ennis would of 'wanted none of it'.
Don't be too sure, Ennis was behind Jack and maybe Jack kinda felt something poking him and thought that Ennis was making the first move. After all, Ennis must have already been aroused because the sex happened instantainously.
Of course thats possible, but thats not the same thing as 'cuddling' Ennis's erection sticking into Jack's back isn't cuddling. ;D I'm saying i don't think he was like smooching him, or anything like that.
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Ennis was behind Jack and maybe Jack kinda felt something poking him and thought that Ennis was making the first move. After all, Ennis must have already been aroused because the sex happened instantainously.
That's a very good point Ejr :s)
Plus the fact Ennis was drunk so inhibitions were very low.
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Ennis was behind Jack and maybe Jack kinda felt something poking him and thought that Ennis was making the first move. After all, Ennis must have already been aroused because the sex happened instantainously.
That's a very good point Ejr :s)
Plus the fact Ennis was drunk so inhibitions were very low.
Yes, but I agree with fullofsadness, that's not foreplay. I don't think Ennis was ready for foreplay by this point, a quick f**k yes, but no forplay. I tend to think that by "deepened their intimacy considerably" Annie meant that they were simply lying very close to each other and got aroused, but when Jack seized Ennis's hand and placed it on his erection (an attempt to initiate foreplay, perhaps) Ennis "wanted none of it" and just grabbed him and went for it.
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i love this topic... ;D although i've never read the screenplay but i hope i can do so someday...btw, thanx for sharing all of all views on that scene. it really brightened by horizons on what really happened that night in the tent. i thought that scene was too fast. one minute there were sleeping and the next sex took place...what i can say is wow!
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To me the answer is in the short story. In the short story both Jack and Ennis are more like movie Ennis, the quiet type. In the movie Jack was more open and friendly. The intimacy part comes into the story through them opening up to each other and becoming friends, before this they were very solitude types.
In the tent Jack was aroused, that much we know, and perhaps Ennis was also, not all arousals are from sexual feelins. Ennis had been drinking and he might have been aroused due to that strain, but when Jack initiated the sexual contact it quickly became a sexual arousal, it does happen.
After reading the short story, which was written very well, I prefer the movie. Being a short story, the plot moved too fast, and that connection was just made too fast. We know Jack had these feelings, but Ennis never did, and then after one night he changes, the next morning there were no doubts, like there was in the movie.