Brokeback Mountain Forum @ ennisjack.com
The Movie & Story => Characters, Quotes & Scenes => Topic started by: Angelove on Jan 01, 2006, 05:35 AM
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Howdy folks!
It's me Ryan again. I watched the movie the second time with two of my best girlfriends this afternoon. I kind of dreaded watching the movie again because it was very painful to watch it the first time because of Ennis and his dishonesty with not others, but himself, throughout the movie.
If not for the tragic ending, I would have given a bad review of this movie since I didn't like how Ennis made me feel up to the turning point near the end of the movie. I kept putting myself in Ennis's shoes and imagining myself doing things my way so that the movie wouldn't have ended in tragedy, that things would have turned out differently, that Ennis might be there with Jack when he passed from this life. I kept getting angry at Ennis's character for not having the courage to realize his needs and pursue them. I was angry at him for entering into a marriage and being dishonest with his wife, a woman who deserves to be loved in return.
You see, I came from a Mormon family and I was the eldest son. I was so scared of coming out that I hid in my closet in fear until I was twenty. It was only when I turned twenty that I reviewed my life and found that I was not happy. I was not happy because I felt that I missed out in my teenage years. I never had any real friends because I never showed who I was, I was living a lie the entire time. I never had a relationship. I never went out on a date. I never kissed. I never loved somebody.
It was then that I had to make a choice. One choice was to spend the rest of my life being the good son and saint and marrying a nice girl and raising a big family in the safety net of what was indoctrinated into me since I was a child. However, I would be living a lie and I couldn't imagine lying to my wife or raising my kids in a loveless marriage just so that I can feel "safe". This is the relationship model my parents had and I didn't want to end up like them, who are now thankfully divorced.
The second choice would be spend the rest of my life in solitude and being the perfect saint. This way, I would not be breaking God's rules or lying to a girl and to my family; the only person I would hurt is myself and I would become a martyr for my beliefs. However, this option is unbearable to me since I don't want to spend the rest of my life alone and deprived of love, counting the days to my death. No person should resign himself to such a fate, a life without the hope of love.
The third option would be to abandon the life I led up to that point and take a leap of faith. I would have to put my family into shame and break my parents' hearts. I would also have to accept the risk that my parents might kick me out of the house once I tell the truth about who I am. However, I realized that God would rather have me happy then be miserable and resign myself to a fate worse than death. I also realized that my parents will still love me for who I am and I don't want them to die only knowing me as their good son rather than their true son. So naturally, I picked the third option and have been happy ever since. I've never regretted my decision.
However, this is where my dissatisfaction with Ennis stems from. Because of the social climate of our times, I can come out today in my local area without the two threats that loomed over Ennis's head, the threat of his death and harm to the people he loves, especially Jack. This is not just a simple fear, but a real and serious risk that Ennis would place not only himself, but the people around him.
Although I might be able to believe that I'm invincible at the time and be fearless about death given my youth, I will regret living my life at the expense of my family, friends and lover. And once I saw it from that standpoint, I can finally sympathize why Ennis did what he did; he wanted to protect himself and the people he love, especially Jack more than himself. This is illustrated when he stood up for his family during the fireworks. He would rather sacrifice his own life and needs to protect others from getting hurt.
Throughout the movie, we see that Ennis associates being himself, or more specifically, loving Jack, with death and tragedy, the first of which is when he finds the remains of the sheep on the mountain after a passionate night with Jack. However, the more poignant one is that of his father showing him the corpse by the roadside. If I had that same traumatic childhood memory, then I would equate being queer as death. I probably wouldn't have come out at all and being a selfish, but real person suffering from the "human condition" of wanting to receive and give love, I would also have picked marrying a woman and have kids rather than staying single and dying alone or seeing my love ones mowed down by bigots.
If his time was more like our own, if he was not raised to be a Malboro man/cowboy/father figure/etc, if he was able to love and be who he wanted to be, he could have spared himself from watching the people around him getting hurt by his decision. I believe that Ennis grew wise enough to realise that as much as he protected his love ones from death and harm, he was also the source of their emotional torment and hell.
I believe that the reason why he got more and more hunched and closed throughout the movie was because he couldn't stop himself from simultaneously loving, protecting and hurting the people he loves and saw no way to break the vicious cycle. He's constantly internally wrecked with guilt and shame that although he strives to be their protector, he was also their tormentor as well. Something he could not forgive himself, but was forced to live with since the other alternative, death, scared him far greater.
That's probably why Ennis broke up with his second girlfriend; he didn't want to hurt anymore people. What I took from Ennis's breakup with his second girlfriend after his last meeting with Jack was that he was beginning to break out of that cycle; he was ready to accept a life with Jack if it was not for his untimely demise.
The true tragedy for me was not really Jack's death, but that Ennis was so close to finally attaining the freedom and happiness he has always wanted and dreamed of. We all wanted him to be happy. And we all felt his pain and loss when he hugged Jack's shirt. We all felt that he deserved the freedom to love and be loved, the same kind of freedom that we sometimes take for granted.
What the movie shows is that the true enemy is not religious groups, the government or even hateful bigots. It's death. We are only given so much time to live, and Time is very unforgiving if we do not learn from our mistakes. Death is certain and it will not give us a second chance once it passes. If anything, what we should take from the movie, as my friend Mike rightfully mentioned, is to live each day as if it was our first and be with our love ones as if it was their last. Because it might be.
As you can see, the movie is still affecting me and I hope that my thoughts on this matter will help others come to terms with the movie as it did for me. I hope to hear more comments regarding my newest post. Take care and Happy New Year, don't let it go to waste. ;D
Ryan
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Ryan: Appreciate your insights on your second viewing. I too went to see this film for a second time. Most of your insights regarding Ennis seem to hit the mark. However, there's one thing to bear in mind...Ennis was a pretty simple-minded character for the complexity of this relationship. Said another way, I think he was simply prey to his past (never having been loved) and 1960's homophobic society. Neither Ennis nor Jack were about BBM until it simply happened. Both Proulx and Ledger indicate that Ennis is harboring deep-seated pain inside and never knows how to show love in order to get love. Too, the masculine, cowboy element doesn't make it easy for that love to get out either. I don't for a moment believe that Ennis really understood what BBM would do to him, his life, his future. That can be said of romance....caught up in the moment, etc...without really thinking of the long-term implications. The sadness of feeling forced into marrying and having a family to "give off" a hetero impression and protect himself (and Jack) was tragic fallout of what Ennis and Jack stumbled into on BBM and then what 1960's Wyoming required.
stationbbm
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Ryan: Appreciate your insights on your second viewing. I too went to see this film for a second time. Most of your insights regarding Ennis seem to hit the mark. However, there's one thing to bear in mind...Ennis was a pretty simple-minded character for the complexity of this relationship. Said another way, I think he was simply prey to his past (never having been loved) and 1960's homophobic society. Neither Ennis nor Jack were about BBM until it simply happened. Both Proulx and Ledger indicate that Ennis is harboring deep-seated pain inside and never knows how to show love in order to get love. Too, the masculine, cowboy element doesn't make it easy for that love to get out either. I don't for a moment believe that Ennis really understood what BBM would do to him, his life, his future. That can be said of romance....caught up in the moment, etc...without really thinking of the long-term implications. The sadness of feeling forced into marrying and having a family to "give off" a hetero impression and protect himself (and Jack) was tragic fallout of what Ennis and Jack stumbled into on BBM and then what 1960's Wyoming required.
stationbbm
WOW...Just WOW...I just love what you wrote.
It has put into words some of my own thoughts...Thankx
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I have some thought about why this movie touches people. Everyone is talking about how "revolutionary" it is,
and I think it's getting to us cause it's ...not. It's about love, it's about needing love and needing to love.
How basic and mainstream is that?
Also its about domesticity, it's about making a home. Jack was rich at the end but would have chucked it all
to be with Ennis. David Brooks just wrote a column in the NY times about the call and return to dometisity
and I wrote to him about Brokeback being just that. So I say it's not a new age movie but rather an age old one.
Note all the cooking scenes in the beginning, and Jack washing Ennis's shirt, stuff like that.
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I have some thought about why this movie touches people. Everyone is talking about how "revolutionary" it is,
and I think it's getting to us cause it's ...not. It's about love, it's about needing love and needing to love.
How basic and mainstream is that?
Also its about domesticity, it's about making a home. Jack was rich at the end but would have chucked it all
to be with Ennis. David Brooks just wrote a column in the NY times about the call and return to domesticity
and I wrote to him about Brokeback being just that. So I say it's not a new age movie but rather an age old one.
Note all the cooking scenes in the beginning, and Jack washing Ennis's shirt, stuff like that.
Thank you so much for your post :D
Love BBM
Jack was rich at the end but would have chucked it all to be with Ennis
Well he was going to take his FIL's money first! But yes you are right, he would have left it all just to be with Ennis ... gosh Ennis you needed a kick in the derriere!
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Toadily: To further amplify on your thoughts, the film seems to force the audience to confront our close-mindedness and intolerance to allow for this needed love to flourish. Imagine yourself being raised and bred in an intensely masculine environment as the cowboy/rancher genre. There would be no way to even remotely discuss this type of relationship, let alone acting upon it. As Ennis reflected on his past, he was absolutely convinced that stepping into a same sex relationship would be extremely dangerous for both of them. The risk element to this relationship could not be more powerfully displayed than seeing the dead fellow lying in a dry gulch. Zero tolerance. This majestic film begs for our modern day audience to step aside from hatred and, further, to understand that we all want and need to be loved. Ennis never felt significant in any way until Jack stepped into his life. Doesn't everyone deserve that same kind of dignity and respect?
stationbbm
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Right, well put and look how many other people were hurt due to this
ridiculous hatred, the wives, the kids, the girl friend. If Ennis and Jack
could have lived together imagine how nice it would be for this daughters
to not have miserable father? Lureen would have found someone
who loved her and she might not have dyed her hair so much ;-)
I mean the list goes on.
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The hatred and bigotry of the social climate of Ennis's time seems to take a second place in the movie once the true and universal foe rears his head, Death himself. We all keep blaming society for the tragic ending, but Ennis knew as well as we do that society is not all to blame, he has to shoulder some of it too as he was the one who made the choice to marry Alma, have children with her, pursue an extramarital affair with Jack, remain in a loveless marriage with Alma, etc. For me, the tragedy here is that he as well as many others, believed that this was the only way they could live with when truly, as long as you are living, there's always an opportunity to change and make your life better, a lesson that Ennis learnt a little too late. Yes, bigotry, homophobia, close mindedness and all of the ills and evils of society are extremely important issues that we should discuss and try to resolve, but these terrible issues pale in comparison with the certainty that Death brings. That's what the movie means to me. That if we lived our lives as if it is our first and our love ones only had today to live, then society takes a second place in our priorities as it should and the important people in our lives become, rightfully, our first.
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An interesting angle...I would only submit that "death" in the case of BBM was brought on by choices that Jack made in the context of society/cultural norms...Ennis did more than his part to make Jack aware of that (i.e., "If you can't fix it, ..., reflection of his childhood experience). Seems that while Death is inevitable and requires all of us to treat every day like it's our last, Jack coupled with societal prejudices made some choices that put in motion the results that make this a tragic story. Not sure that fully understand your reference to setting priorities between death (something that most of us have little control over) vs. changing cultural norms. I thought that one of the most central themes to the film revolved around the cowboy culture, inabiltiy to pursue this relationship openly, on and on. Please come back at me with more clarity...I want to understand your meaning.
Thanks,
stationbbm
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Anne decided to leave Jack's death a mystery and we don't know how he died for certain. With that said, we can not say which actions persay led to his untimely demise. And as I said before, Jack's death does not make this a tragic story, it's Ennis's inability to express his feelings as well as his inability to step outside the box of the reality and social constructions (the Malboro cowboy image) society has imposed on him. Because he thought that his way was the only option to live his life, he endured it despite of the unhappiness that it gave him. He allowed society put limitations in his world whether it's the zero tolerance for homosexuality or whether believing that being married with a woman and having children is the right way to live and end your life. These limitations, as ingrained into his consciousness to the degree he believes them to be universal truths, are not limitations or universal truths at all. You don't need to be married to a woman to be happy, you don't need to be straight to be happy. Happiness is subjective to each one of us and it is up to us to pursue it and not depend on a cultural standard that might not work for everyone. I believe that with Jack's death, Ennis finally saw that he does not need to stay in the box to be happy, but it was too late to enjoy life with Jack and that's the true tragedy, this lost opportunity.
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I should clarify what I've said actually. When I first wrote this post, I was under the impression that Ennis's choices in life were limited, that he could not be with Jack because they were both men and were in a place that would not support their lifestyle. That he had no choice, but to lead the life as society sees fit for any man of that era, to be the breadwinner and provider and protector of his family and that any promise of happiness, or even his survival, will only be guaranteed if he walks this straight and narrow path. However, this is exactly what the movie is trying to warn us against, to not blame society for the choices we make, to not let society prevent us from doing what we feel we need to do.
Society does not limit our choices as the choice will always be there for us to make. We limit our own choices by succumbing to our fears and prejudices and social pressure. We allow them to control our lives despite of our better judgement and let us feel that there is only one right choice to make, one path in life to choose from to be happy. Ennis saw it this way.
Yes, we could blame rampant homophobia, religion, government, close mindedness, bigotry, etc, for why it was impossible for Ennis to be together with Jack. Ennis made his choices based on those same rationalizations, fears and social pressures. However, if we say that Ennis had no choice in the matter, that the choice he made was the only one he could make at the time given the social climate of his times, then we are no better than Ennis for feeling that way, for letting those social ills ruin our happiness and the lives of the people around us even though we disagree with them with all of our hearts. This is the kind of silence that kills.
Just because Ennis is the epitome of the Malboro man image, it does not mean he has one path he can take to lead his life, he still has the choices in front of him even though some of them go against that cowboy image. In this case, he chose to let society prevent him from making the most important decision in his life.
In fact, the only few times that choice is taken away is through Death. Even if Ennis decides to choose to be with Jack at the end of the movie, the choice is no longer there for him to make as Jack is already dead. That's why I say that Death is something we should fear. Society does not limit our choices. Death does.
I hope that this explains what I'm trying to say, I tend to go round about the bush to make my point, lol.
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I should make another note before I leave. I do blame society for putting Ennis between a rock and hard place and having him to choose the two. At the same time, I don't blame Ennis for picking the lesser of the two evils for him since that's all he could see as an option. I applaud that he has at least tried to maintain a relationship with Jack and didn't give up hope early on in the relationship. And let me make another correction, what the movie has taught me is to not fear social pressures, bigotry, etc or even Death itself since some paths do have a certain element of risk in it that leads to Death, but to fear regret and lost opportunities, and to choose the path that minimizes those two elements.
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Than ks for all this Angelove :-*
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Angelove (Ryan): I will need to think about what you've said here....you've said a lot that I will need to step back and contemplate. In some sense, you've made argument for certain ambitious platitudes...not sure that a pragmatic individual would necessarily see this view. Those in our ugly history who were subject to slavery would have a hard time with some of your remarks about not letting society rule the day. Arguments around what we really have control over and what we don't...I think there are some grey lines here. Nevertheless, let me spend time reading and re-reading. The voice of this forum gets richer and richer with these very thoughtful and insightful comments. I'm less concerned with Ledger's magazine covers and more engaged around the content and merits of this literary gem turned film screen masterpiece. There's so much to jump into and wade through and be inspired by.
Many thanks,
stationbbm
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I came across a very good quote from one of the most unlikely sources. I know that I shouldn't be digging up past ghosts on this thread, but the following passage describes how I feel towards Ennis and the predicament he found himself in:
We didn't have a choice then. We believed that was the only way. Do you know what it felt like to watch? Right before my eyes? It was the only thing we could do. It was the only choice we had. I gave in, I accepted, I believed. I allowed it to be true.
I thought I'd be able to go through with it without ever doubting myself. But I... It hurts so much.
Everyone was so happy. There were too many smiles to count. And I know that I was smiling, too. But now...when I look back... The people who should be here aren't. The ones who should be smiling with me aren't here.
"We had no choice." Always "we had no choice." Those are our magic words. We repeat them to ourselves again and again. But you know... The magic never worked! The only thing we're left with is regret.
No. I don't want this anymore.
I don't want friends to die...or fade away. I don't want battles where we have to lose in order to win.
This is how I would feel . . . No, this is how I felt. I don't know if Ennis felt this way, but I don't want to ever feel how Ennis felt like at the end of the BBM. I don't know if I could ever understand Ennis, or at least the way most people feel towards him. But what I do know is that I don't believe in his words, if you can't fix it, you'll have to bear it. I don't want battles where we have to lose in order to win.
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Hey Angel:
This is Steven from Los Angeles.....wow this is a great topic.....As a Gay man that grew up in the mid west...and then moved to Los Angeles CA to be accepted....I really understand what you are saying....I LOVE THIS MOVIE!!!!!!!! I cant screen that enough!!!!!! and I mean that...This for me is the GAY movie I want to see....and if your not gay you will not understand!!!...this MOVIE for me is 2 GREAT people that fall in love....and hey do they know about gay....I don't know....but what a great movie about 2 GREAT guys...and I really hope it wins all the awards it should....
Take care,
Steven
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This is how I would feel . . . No, this is how I felt. I don't know if Ennis felt this way, but I don't want to ever feel how Ennis felt like at the end of the BBM. I don't know if I could ever understand Ennis, or at least the way most people feel towards him. But what I do know is that I don't believe in his words, if you can't fix it, you'll have to bear it. I don't want battles where we have to lose in order to win.
Angelove,
Rex Wockner wrote something today that I think you might find interesting:
http://www.365gay.com/opinion/wocknerWire/wocknerWire.htm
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If there are people on this forum speaking/reading French, I would suggest this nice and moving review from La Presse:
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/article/20051217/CPARTS/512170534/5316/CPARTS01
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Thanks for the replies Chameau, Sharve and Steven!
The quote I used previously actually came from a video game (extra points to those who can tell what game I'm talking about) and it has no gay characters whatsoever (although some of them can be interpreted as so). I believe that this situation could happen to anybody whether gay or straight and that's why this film is so universal and heart gripping.
I have also read the review and it mirrors what I have previously posted. I've always tried to think outside the box and question the mainstream. If I happen to agree with it, I will just go with the flow, but if I don't, then I will spend every waking moment fighting upstream even if it kills me doing so. And that's the person I am whether it comes to coming out of the closet or when it comes to Love.
For example, I'm spending Valentine's Day with my best girlfriends instead of spending it with my boyfriend because my girls have been with me for five years now and we made a promise to always spend Valentine's Day together instead of our boyfriends, which we tend to just pig out on chocolates and desserts in front of a nice sappy romantic comedy. I could fly up a day earlier to spend Valentine's with my boyfriend, but I know that I will regret not spending Valentine's Day with my girls more than I would miss spending it with my boyfriend, although it does not relieve him of giving me red roses when I do see him (I told him specifically that I wanted that.) Don't get me wrong, I do love my boyfriend and I'm taking six days off from work, which is all of my vacation time, to spend with him. But I refuse to ignore my friends, I love them just as well as I love JC.
With that said, here's a quote from the review,
"So, the lessons of this stunning film are fairly simple.
1. There's very little in life that is truly important or really matters or makes much of a difference. One of those very few things that does matter is finding the love of your life.
2. If you find the love of your life and get to experience that -- if only for one summer -- and then you screw it up, your life may be crappy forever thereafter, unless you happen to have the incredible luck to get a second chance with someone else.
3. So, if you have the good fortune to find the love of your life, you must move mountains to protect that relationship at any and all cost.
Jack Twist became ready, willing and able to move mountains but Ennis Del Mar didn't, and that ruined both of their lives."
I don't believe that life/fate/God/cosmic entity is that cruel and even though if we all screw up once in our lives, I believe that we will be given many more opportunities to love and be loved. We just need to be open and ready to accept the challenge and blessing when it comes our way. I'm a firm believer that when we feel ready and are ready, we will be given another crack at the age old dance of Love. We just need to wait. Hell, it took me two years before I was ready again, but it was well worth the wait.
Here's another quote from the review,
"If you're a gay man of a certain (or maybe any) age, you've likely been here -- either as a Jack or an Ennis. You've loved a man who loved you but you couldn't ride off into the sunset together because one of you was unable or unwilling to fight his way out of the homophobia box. Either you or he thwarted the chance for love-of-your-life happiness. Love itself wasn't enough."
This could happen to anybody, one partner being ready to love and be loved while the other partner not be ready so to speak. As I've said previously, I don't believe in Love of your Life, but I do agree with one sentiment, Love itself wasn't enough. For me, the movie is not all about love, it's about the courage to do what you feel have to do, the courage and strength to pursue what you want, to do what you need to be happy. If that's love, then so be it. If it is your dream, then go for it. The reason why I'm saying this is because as much as I want to be with my partner right now where he is, I would never forgive myself if I had to abandon my dream to do so.
I don't want battles where we have to lose in order to win.
Besides, I plan to move to him once I achieve my dream, which I can then take anywhere I go.
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Thanks for the replies Chameau, Sharve and Steven!
The quote I used previously actually came from a video game (extra points to those who can tell what game I'm talking about) and it has no gay characters whatsoever (although some of them can be interpreted as so). I believe that this situation could happen to anybody whether gay or straight and that's why this film is so universal and heart gripping.
I have also read the review and it mirrors what I have previously posted. I've always tried to think outside the box and question the mainstream. If I happen to agree with it, I will just go with the flow, but if I don't, then I will spend every waking moment fighting upstream even if it kills me doing so. And that's the person I am whether it comes to coming out of the closet or when it comes to Love.
For example, I'm spending Valentine's Day with my best girlfriends instead of spending it with my boyfriend because my girls have been with me for five years now and we made a promise to always spend Valentine's Day together instead of our boyfriends, which we tend to just pig out on chocolates and desserts in front of a nice sappy romantic comedy. I could fly up a day earlier to spend Valentine's with my boyfriend, but I know that I will regret not spending Valentine's Day with my girls more than I would miss spending it with my boyfriend, although it does not relieve him of giving me red roses when I do see him (I told him specifically that I wanted that.) Don't get me wrong, I do love my boyfriend and I'm taking six days off from work, which is all of my vacation time, to spend with him. But I refuse to ignore my friends, I love them just as well as I love JC.
With that said, here's a quote from the review,
"So, the lessons of this stunning film are fairly simple.
1. There's very little in life that is truly important or really matters or makes much of a difference. One of those very few things that does matter is finding the love of your life.
2. If you find the love of your life and get to experience that -- if only for one summer -- and then you screw it up, your life may be crappy forever thereafter, unless you happen to have the incredible luck to get a second chance with someone else.
3. So, if you have the good fortune to find the love of your life, you must move mountains to protect that relationship at any and all cost.
Jack Twist became ready, willing and able to move mountains but Ennis Del Mar didn't, and that ruined both of their lives."
I don't believe that life/fate/God/cosmic entity is that cruel and even though if we all screw up once in our lives, I believe that we will be given many more opportunities to love and be loved. We just need to be open and ready to accept the challenge and blessing when it comes our way. I'm a firm believer that when we feel ready and are ready, we will be given another crack at the age old dance of Love. We just need to wait. Hell, it took me two years before I was ready again, but it was well worth the wait.
Here's another quote from the review,
"If you're a gay man of a certain (or maybe any) age, you've likely been here -- either as a Jack or an Ennis. You've loved a man who loved you but you couldn't ride off into the sunset together because one of you was unable or unwilling to fight his way out of the homophobia box. Either you or he thwarted the chance for love-of-your-life happiness. Love itself wasn't enough."
This could happen to anybody, one partner being ready to love and be loved while the other partner not be ready so to speak. As I've said previously, I don't believe in Love of your Life, but I do agree with one sentiment, Love itself wasn't enough. For me, the movie is not all about love, it's about the courage to do what you feel have to do, the courage and strength to pursue what you want, to do what you need to be happy. If that's love, then so be it. If it is your dream, then go for it. The reason why I'm saying this is because as much as I want to be with my partner right now where he is, I would never forgive myself if I had to abandon my dream to do so.
I don't want battles where we have to lose in order to win.
Besides, I plan to move to him once I achieve my dream, which I can then take anywhere I go.
Thanks Angelove for sharing this. As a whole, I agree with your comment that love is not enough (as in the case of Ennis).
But it is comforting to me that in spite of all the odds and difficulties, Ennis did love.
And, most wonderful of all, he was also deeply loved in return.
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Thankx Angelove, ;)
For example, I'm spending Valentine's Day with my best girlfriends instead of spending it with my boyfriend because my girls have been with me for five years now and we made a promise to always spend Valentine's Day together instead of our boyfriends, which we tend to just pig out on chocolates and desserts in front of a nice sappy romantic comedy. I could fly up a day earlier to spend Valentine's with my boyfriend, but I know that I will regret not spending Valentine's Day with my girls more than I would miss spending it with my boyfriend, although it does not relieve him of giving me red roses when I do see him (I told him specifically that I wanted that.) Don't get me wrong, I do love my boyfriend and I'm taking six days off from work, which is all of my vacation time, to spend with him. But I refuse to ignore my friends, I love them just as well as I love JC.
[...]
"If you're a gay man of a certain (or maybe any) age, you've likely been here -- either as a Jack or an Ennis. You've loved a man who loved you but you couldn't ride off into the sunset together because one of you was unable or unwilling to fight his way out of the homophobia box. Either you or he thwarted the chance for love-of-your-life happiness. Love itself wasn't enough."
This could happen to anybody, one partner being ready to love and be loved while the other partner not be ready so to speak. As I've said previously, I don't believe in Love of your Life, but I do agree with one sentiment, Love itself wasn't enough. For me, the movie is not all about love, it's about the courage to do what you feel have to do, the courage and strength to pursue what you want, to do what you need to be happy. If that's love, then so be it. If it is your dream, then go for it. The reason why I'm saying this is because as much as I want to be with my partner right now where he is, I would never forgive myself if I had to abandon my dream to do so.
I don't want battles where we have to lose in order to win.
You are a great friend...I love your valentine friends only "date"! It's so nice! :D
Regarding the relationship issue and fear of riding off into the sunset...I'm straight, but had a similar problem.
My Jack was an older man...if he was not my Brokeback Mountain, then he was my Brokeback Hill (read that somewhere and loved it).
I could not face our families and other things...His love was not enough...and i probably did not love him enough! (Well that is how he saw it!). My battles were too great to fight and I gave in...I guess I did not have the stenght to fight for us...so I set him free...ended up brokenhearted for a very long time too!
Thanks Angelove for sharing this. As a whole, I agree with your comment that love is not enough (as in the case of Ennis).
But it is comforting to me that in spite of all the odds and difficulties, Ennis did love.
And, most wonderful of all, he was also deeply loved in return.
He did love, didn't he... :'(
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Howdy tpe and frog123,
Yes, that's what makes BBM so heartwarming, even though those two characters never say it directly to one another, they don't have to. We could see that both of them love each other deeply, that's why they keep going to BBM all those many years. Yet, like you said, as much as their love raises Ennis up, it also crushes him in the end which we all felt as well.
I'm guessing that this film will appeal to people, such as frog123 and I, who have loved, but have been crushed by it even though we still love that special somebody. And no, frog123, you did love that special one enough or else you would not have such strong feelings for him to this day. But sadly, you are also right in the fact that we were not strong enough to maintain a relationship despite of that love. I guess we should celebrate the fact that we did love and that we would know what to do, or rather, not do the next time love comes our way again. Besides, it's better to have love and lost than to have never loved at all, lol. I hope this helps!
Ryan
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Besides, it's better to have love and lost than to have never loved at all, lol. I hope this helps!
:-*
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Howdy tpe and frog123,
Yes, that's what makes BBM so heartwarming, even though those two characters never say it directly to one another, they don't have to. We could see that both of them love each other deeply, that's why they keep going to BBM all those many years. Yet, like you said, as much as their love raises Ennis up, it also crushes him in the end which we all felt as well.
I'm guessing that this film will appeal to people, such as frog123 and I, who have loved, but have been crushed by it even though we still love that special somebody. And no, frog123, you did love that special one enough or else you would not have such strong feelings for him to this day. But sadly, you are also right in the fact that we were not strong enough to maintain a relationship despite of that love. I guess we should celebrate the fact that we did love and that we would know what to do, or rather, not do the next time love comes our way again. Besides, it's better to have love and lost than to have never loved at all, lol. I hope this helps!
Ryan
Ryan,
All your postings move me so much. You are one good writer and a beautiful and sensible soul. It's a privilege to meet people like you on this forum. I love you all!
Pierre :-*
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I've added this song to my playlists, it's a song I've listened to a couple of years ago and the lyrics of it now made sense to me when I think about BBM and this post. The song seems to sound so sad and now I understand why as I imagine the scenes of BBM play in my head. To me, this is Ennis's song to Jack. Tell me what you think. ^^
KOKORO (Heart)
Vocal: Joanne Hogg
I've been watching you a while
Since you walked into my life
Monday morning, when first I heard you speak to me
I was too shy to let you know
Much too scared to let my feelings show
but you shielded me and that was the beginning
Now at last we can talk in another way
And though I try, "I love you" is just so hard to say
If I only could be strong, and say the words I feel
My beating heart begins to race
When I turn to see your face
I remember that sweet dream which you told to me.
I wanted just to be with you
So we could make the dream come true
And you smiled at me and that was the beginning
And now at last we can talk in another way
And though I try, "I love you" is just so hard to say
If I only could be strong, and say the words I feel
Tell me what you're thinking of
Tell me if you love me now
I had so much I longed to ask you
But now the chance has gone
While your picture fades each day
In my heart the memory stays
Glowing bright, you're always smiling
And I will hold you close
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Opps, a correction to the title, although Kokoro means Heart in Japanese, it means in this context, "The Words I Feel"
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And to listen to this song, you may download it for free from this site,
http://gh.ffshrine.org/soundtracks/78
I hope that you'll like it. ^^
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My beating heart begins to race
When I turn to see your face
I remember that sweet dream which you told to me.
I wanted just to be with you
So we could make the dream come true
And you smiled at me and that was the beginning
Compare this with the following passage in the story. :)
Stars bit through the wavy heat layers above the fire. Ennis's breath came slow and quiet, he hummed, rocked a little in the sparklight and Jack leaned against the steady heartbeat, the vibrations of the humming like faint electricity and, standing, he fell into sleep that was not sleep but something else drowsy and tranced...
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Opps, a correction to the title, although Kokoro means Heart in Japanese, it means in this context, "The Words I Feel"
It's lovely , thankx for posting! :-*
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I gather it would be a facile thing for me to say that I have more anger than sympathy for Ennis. Why couldn't he just commit to Jack, to someone who loved him so much? But I have both anger and sympathy for Ennis. If many of us are honest, we have kept people at bay, have not responded in kind to the overtures of love that others have extended, and have been fearful of any risk-taking. I feel sympathy for him because of the times in which he lived, the traumatic experiences he endured as a child, and some of the emotional baggage he carried. At the end of the movie I feel his pain and his emptiness. Many of us, and I speak specifically about myself, are often an unhappy mixture of openness and reticence at the same time, so I must admit that I harbor both resentment and sympathy simultaneously for Ennis. I understand him well. I am Ennis.
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Right and the other thing is Ennis didn't think Jack woud die, I mean we all kind of string things along thinking we have plenty of time and he and Jack would always see each other...
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Thanks Liam56 for sharing with us. :)
I used to be an Ennis too until I came out and now, I fully embrace the Jack side of me and I've become him which is kind interesting since I get to see both sides of the same coin. It's strange to look back now and see how much I have changed since then, lol. I believe I've came to peace with Ennis and although I still get a little peeved at some of the choices he has made, I understand why he makes them and the anger seems to melt away.
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Thanks Liam56 for sharing with us. :)
I used to be an Ennis too until I came out and now, I fully embrace the Jack side of me and I've become him which is kind interesting since I get to see both sides of the same coin. It's strange to look back now and see how much I have changed since then, lol. I believe I've came to peace with Ennis and although I still get a little peeved at some of the choices he has made, I understand why he makes them and the anger seems to melt away.
Hi Angelove---
Thanks for the comments.
I wish I could mouth what you said and have it apply to me. I'm pretty out (except to my family) but a lot of the old tapes still get played over in my head and I get fearful and then the Ennis side takes over my Jack side. I guess the Jack side of me is the need I have for people. I like to study in a coffee shop where there are human voices in the background. I love conversation and the company of good friends. Ennis was too much a loner and that's the part of his personality that was so heart wrenching. But his fears still haunt me from time to time and overpower the Jack side. I guess we are all a part of both characters, very much like the Apollo/Dionysian side of our personalities.
That's why I love the movie so much because there is so much in it that is personal, and painful as well. But it forces you to look deeper within yourself.
Have a nice day!
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I think that Ennis was totally captured by love for Jack but he didnt have dialectic capability to understand what it happened to him and enought force to win his fears; Im thinking to the scene whene he vomiting and crie at the same time after leaving Jack... a classical somatization; It seems that Ennis was in love much more than Jack.Ennis upsets his life while Jack is able to organize it. Jack had capability to find other relations and seems to more tolerate to be with other mans; following his passions Jack was more exposed to social prejudgement and that will carry him to death for assassination! By this way paradoxically he didnt protect his relation with Ennis and removed maybe the only possibility for Ennis to found love in his live.
Finally I think Ennis was the victim of the story, of himself and of his society
I love very much Ennis.
Coguaro
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I think that Ennis was totally captured by love for Jack but he didnt have dialectic capability to understand what it happened to him and enought force to win his fears; Im thinking to the scene whene he vomiting and crie at the same time after leaving Jack... a classical somatization; It seems that Ennis was in love much more than Jack.Ennis upsets his life while Jack is able to organize it. Jack had capability to find other relations and seems to more tolerate to be with other mans; following his passions Jack was more exposed to social prejudgement and that will carry him to death for assassination! By this way paradoxically he didnt protect his relation with Ennis and removed maybe the only possibility for Ennis to found love in his live.
Finally I think Ennis was the victim of the story, of himself and of his society
Very well said coguaro!
I love very much Ennis.
Coguaro
Damnit! Another competitor! ;)
I love him too. :-\
Big hugs to you coguaro :-*
Pierre
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I feel no anger toward Ennis. He, like all of us, are products not only of our biology but our early childhood experiences and current/past environment.
Add his childhood trauma/early parental abandonment to the "state of the world" in terms of male on male sex circa 1964 in Wyoming and I feel only love.
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I did have anger at Ennis for a long time but now I love the guy, maybe a personal exceptance story I don't know. But I just saw it again today and I felt a kinship, he is more an everyman than Jack.
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Howdy folks!
It's me Ryan again. I watched the movie the second time with two of my best girlfriends this afternoon. I kind of dreaded watching the movie again because it was very painful to watch it the first time because of Ennis and his dishonesty with not others, but himself, throughout the movie.
If not for the tragic ending, I would have given a bad review of this movie since I didn't like how Ennis made me feel up to the turning point near the end of the movie. I kept putting myself in Ennis's shoes and imagining myself doing things my way so that the movie wouldn't have ended in tragedy, that things would have turned out differently, that Ennis might be there with Jack when he passed from this life. I kept getting angry at Ennis's character for not having the courage to realize his needs and pursue them. I was angry at him for entering into a marriage and being dishonest with his wife, a woman who deserves to be loved in return.
You see, I came from a Mormon family and I was the eldest son. I was so scared of coming out that I hid in my closet in fear until I was twenty. It was only when I turned twenty that I reviewed my life and found that I was not happy. I was not happy because I felt that I missed out in my teenage years. I never had any real friends because I never showed who I was, I was living a lie the entire time. I never had a relationship. I never went out on a date. I never kissed. I never loved somebody.
It was then that I had to make a choice. One choice was to spend the rest of my life being the good son and saint and marrying a nice girl and raising a big family in the safety net of what was indoctrinated into me since I was a child. However, I would be living a lie and I couldn't imagine lying to my wife or raising my kids in a loveless marriage just so that I can feel "safe". This is the relationship model my parents had and I didn't want to end up like them, who are now thankfully divorced.
The second choice would be spend the rest of my life in solitude and being the perfect saint. This way, I would not be breaking God's rules or lying to a girl and to my family; the only person I would hurt is myself and I would become a martyr for my beliefs. However, this option is unbearable to me since I don't want to spend the rest of my life alone and deprived of love, counting the days to my death. No person should resign himself to such a fate, a life without the hope of love.
The third option would be to abandon the life I led up to that point and take a leap of faith. I would have to put my family into shame and break my parents' hearts. I would also have to accept the risk that my parents might kick me out of the house once I tell the truth about who I am. However, I realized that God would rather have me happy then be miserable and resign myself to a fate worse than death. I also realized that my parents will still love me for who I am and I don't want them to die only knowing me as their good son rather than their true son. So naturally, I picked the third option and have been happy ever since. I've never regretted my decision.
However, this is where my dissatisfaction with Ennis stems from. Because of the social climate of our times, I can come out today in my local area without the two threats that loomed over Ennis's head, the threat of his death and harm to the people he loves, especially Jack. This is not just a simple fear, but a real and serious risk that Ennis would place not only himself, but the people around him.
Although I might be able to believe that I'm invincible at the time and be fearless about death given my youth, I will regret living my life at the expense of my family, friends and lover. And once I saw it from that standpoint, I can finally sympathize why Ennis did what he did; he wanted to protect himself and the people he love, especially Jack more than himself. This is illustrated when he stood up for his family during the fireworks. He would rather sacrifice his own life and needs to protect others from getting hurt.
Throughout the movie, we see that Ennis associates being himself, or more specifically, loving Jack, with death and tragedy, the first of which is when he finds the remains of the sheep on the mountain after a passionate night with Jack. However, the more poignant one is that of his father showing him the corpse by the roadside. If I had that same traumatic childhood memory, then I would equate being queer as death. I probably wouldn't have come out at all and being a selfish, but real person suffering from the "human condition" of wanting to receive and give love, I would also have picked marrying a woman and have kids rather than staying single and dying alone or seeing my love ones mowed down by bigots.
If his time was more like our own, if he was not raised to be a Malboro man/cowboy/father figure/etc, if he was able to love and be who he wanted to be, he could have spared himself from watching the people around him getting hurt by his decision. I believe that Ennis grew wise enough to realise that as much as he protected his love ones from death and harm, he was also the source of their emotional torment and hell.
I believe that the reason why he got more and more hunched and closed throughout the movie was because he couldn't stop himself from simultaneously loving, protecting and hurting the people he loves and saw no way to break the vicious cycle. He's constantly internally wrecked with guilt and shame that although he strives to be their protector, he was also their tormentor as well. Something he could not forgive himself, but was forced to live with since the other alternative, death, scared him far greater.
That's probably why Ennis broke up with his second girlfriend; he didn't want to hurt anymore people. What I took from Ennis's breakup with his second girlfriend after his last meeting with Jack was that he was beginning to break out of that cycle; he was ready to accept a life with Jack if it was not for his untimely demise.
The true tragedy for me was not really Jack's death, but that Ennis was so close to finally attaining the freedom and happiness he has always wanted and dreamed of. We all wanted him to be happy. And we all felt his pain and loss when he hugged Jack's shirt. We all felt that he deserved the freedom to love and be loved, the same kind of freedom that we sometimes take for granted.
What the movie shows is that the true enemy is not religious groups, the government or even hateful bigots. It's death. We are only given so much time to live, and Time is very unforgiving if we do not learn from our mistakes. Death is certain and it will not give us a second chance once it passes. If anything, what we should take from the movie, as my friend Mike rightfully mentioned, is to live each day as if it was our first and be with our love ones as if it was their last. Because it might be.
As you can see, the movie is still affecting me and I hope that my thoughts on this matter will help others come to terms with the movie as it did for me. I hope to hear more comments regarding my newest post. Take care and Happy New Year, don't let it go to waste. ;D
Ryan
Hi Ryan,
I am new to this board and I know that people have already responded to you. So I hope that you don't mind my response.
Just from your description of your own upbringing I think you have made it clear exactly why you feel both angry and sympathetic to Ennis. Ennis' character also has to deal with similar dysfunctional anti-gay sentiments that have been internalized. Essentially, we are being programmed with anti-gay sentiments from the likes of religious groups and ultra-right-wing-conservatives in our society... so all of us can relate to Ennis' fears of continuuing his relationship with Jack. I came from a Roman Catholic background and the difficulties that I had to go through to become more self-affirming and honest with who I am were enormous especially since I recognized I was gay, yet I truly wanted and had a deeply spiritual and philosophical obligation to doing what is right.
Brokeback Mountain is not just about Jack and Ennis... it was about consequences and their victims and victors. Love, sex, friendship were among some of the forces at work here and its victims were the characters in the movie. I almost hesitate to say there were victors because it really depends on one's standpoint.
Ennis was no victor by a long shot. It was clear he was a victim. Ennis was brought up and taught that being gay was wrong and was punishable by death. How can we blame him for trying to do what he thought was the right thing by *sacrificing* his feelings for Jack and cut them loose from a *dangerous liason*. He must have felt it was the only thing he could do to protect Jack's life and his. At 19, he must have really thought that this was the right thing to do... and he did it... and he broke down and cried that he had to do it. I though the sequence when young Ennis declined a lift from young Jack and then as he walked the opposite way only to find himself slowing to a crawl and then succumbed to his knees in front of a unfeeling wooden wall... he was cursing his choice... he did not want to have to make such an awful choice. He was *ONLY* trying to do the right thing and yet it hurt him to no end.
From that awful defining moment, the forces at play and their consequences came stampeding through the rest of the movie. Bullish hopes and trampled lives became evident as the force of homophobia rocked its merry tune. Of course, we have to be angry at Ennis... but, of course, we also understand why he did what he did.
No, Ennis was no hero, he was no enemy... he simply was a victim of circumstances and the prevailing conditions of thought.
Brokeback Mountain is then a testament for men like Ennis... that that was all they ever wanted was to do the right thing, but instead what did they get?
Take care and be easy on yourself too, pardner!
Frank
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Hi folks I am so hung on that movie that I can't read enough about it. Can you tell me your take on why Ennis got sick in the alley way after Jack & Ennis went their seperate ways. First time replying to some one and hope it gets through as I am just learning to navigate this site....thanks gordo
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It's not in the movie but in the original short story from the motel scene when they met in 1967 after 4 years.
“That summer,” said Ennis. “When we split up after we got
paid out I had gut cramps so bad I pulled over and tried to
puke, thought I ate somethin bad at that place in Dubois.
Took me about a year a figure out it was that I shouldn’t a
let you out a my sights. Too late then by a long, long
while.”
So Ennis was sick of leaving Jack after their Summer on Brokeback. :(
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Hello do you think brokemountain will ever be shown in theaters again or it's too old? I don't follow movies in the past and wondered about this.....Gordo
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Your post might be off topic gordo, however Brokeback Mountain is presented in art movies theaters here and there from time to time. I just want to make sure to answer your question right, it won't be released at large again.
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Hi Chameau: Thanks for replying. It makes my day when I hear of Brokeback Mountain. I feel I should not watch it for a long time because I am hooked on it. But, maybe it's ok to watch it some more. Do other folks feel like I do?
Just last night I was at a jam and some folks were taking some photos so I wispered to my friend lets get our picture taken and I will be Ennis and you be Jack. Just having fun.... the photo was us standing like Jack and Ennis was when Ennis said Jack your sleeping like a horse standing up....lol Gordo
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Wow, so many months on this forum and still finding new areas to explore. I haven't seen this thread before. Thanks for bring it up again, Gordo.
Amazing insights here.
It's interesting that angelove was angry at Ennis, and others were not.
I cannot say I was angry at Ennis, or Jack, but I was annoyed at different parts of the story when they each lost opportunities to cement their relationship. First at the parting of ways that summer...the agonizing conversation next to the truck. Then the moment by the river, when the sweet life was proposed, and turned down. And in the motel that weekend, between the lines of sweet nothing whispered and exchanged. And the futile exchanges of words, of looks, of anguish and powerlessness after the divorce and Jack drove all that way to Riverton. At every scene when they were together, was the opportunity for one to say to the other, let's work this out, let's find us a way to be together more often, always, forever. Even a little step was better than nothing. Ennis could have told Jack that he would go with him to visit his folks in Lightning Flats before the confrontation. It would have made the missed August meet more palatable, and maybe Jack's Ma could convince Ennis to come visit more often, build themselves a cabin even.
No, at every opportunity, the two of them allowed their fears, their inertia, to carry on a most unsatisfying situation. Fears of loss, fears of love, fears of society, fears of death, and the inertia to keep going around the coffee pot looking for the handle. Jack might have fewer fears, and less inertia, but he had his demons to conquer, too.
I was neither angry at Ennis, nor feeling sympathy. I felt like I was Ennis, making the same mistakes he made, missing all 'em opportunities, feeling all 'em fears, powerlessness to change, to take that leap. Yes, perhaps I was angry, but not at Ennis, but at myself as Ennis, and through Heath's masterful performance, transforming the sympathy and love for Ennis/Heath to love for myself/Ennis.
I am not sure if all that rambling makes sense to anyone, but it's why I love Brokeback Mountain.
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I've never seen this thread either. Yes, Ennis and Jack at times made me want to shake them and say "guys comeon get on the same page" but I also understood them (most of the time) why they were like the way they were. I got frustrated at Jack in the scene where Ennis was (I think) trying in his own way to come out to Jack when he asked if things were normal between Jack & Lureen and if Jack thought people looked at him like they Knew. Jack just to me kind of avoided the issue by saying "sure" things were normal and just suggested Ennis should get out of Riverton. So anyway, Jack stepped around a lot of things himself just like Ennis. And like Lance says, it is so much about missed chances, ones we can never get back, and ones we all have in our lives. It's also about love, be it all so painful and bittersweet, but love indeed.
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Well, I found myself angry yet sympathetic towards Ennis in the film. Just as a person I found him quiet, shy and unemotional. Perhaps he saw emotion as weakness somehow but he was also stoic, stubborn and very set in his way. That WAS Ennis's way. He was'nt one for pet names( though he did refer to Jack as his "little darlin" once) and long drawn out declaratons of undying love. It just was'nt him. No doubt he is a product of his very strict upbringing in the 50's and 60's, where men were men and expectations were set by society for them, especially in rural Wy. Everything was put straight-forward and certain lines were not to be crossed but...
There were times in the film where I just wanted to bop him over the head (sorry), frustrated at Ennis because what seemed so easy to do and say was so hard for Ennis to just "do it"...but I'm not him , but I relate to him in many ways. I can understand. I guess I just wanted them both to be happy.
But then I imagine how hard it must have been for him to change all he knew and believed to be right..or wrong even as I personally believe at some point Ennis did surrender his heart to Jack. I think at some point he admitted to himself that he had undeniable feelings for him, I think he claimed Jack as his and his alone, but could Ennis ever say it out loud?, Cross that line and live with Jack on their ranch?, speak the words in an expression of love that left no fear or doubt in Jack's mind?? Or even acknowledge what he felt was love? Don't think so.
He did express his feelings but thru subtle actions that Jack no doubt read correctly. Ennis needed these deeds and actions to speak loud and clear to Jack, the jeaulosy Ennis showed, the fishing trips, the confession that "Aint no reins on this one" etc.. but that had to be the most frustrating and painful thing for Jack. Those soft, sublte and endearing actions that bespoke of a caring and longing. Knowing he was in love with someone who he knew in his heart loved him back, but could not get enough courage to face his fear of it and knowing that he could not force it due to his own fear that he might loose Ennis forever which left Jack between a rock and a hard place. I felt for both of them. :_(
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I feel what you feel, aintfoolin, but I am also reminded that we have traveled a long way from 'em early days, Stonewall, Milk, Shepard, and now, Ricky Martin... %&) oops. How did that get in. %&)
Anyway, it is good that we see Ennis's missed opportunities, and yearn for him to cross that line, as you put it. It means we are looking back that long road, and not stuck there with him.
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I feel what you feel, aintfoolin, but I am also reminded that we have traveled a long way from 'em early days, Stonewall, Milk, Shepard, and now, Ricky Martin... %&) oops. How did that get in. %&)
Anyway, it is good that we see Ennis's missed opportunities, and yearn for him to cross that line, as you put it. It means we are looking back that long road, and not stuck there with him.
Yep, thanks LC, and it is to these early pioneers of the Gay Rights movement standing up and fighting, and in some cases dying for their right to be, that one such as Ricky Martin owes much as I'm sure he realizes. They helped pave the way for him to come out of the shadows into the sun in 2010. Unfortunately there are far too many Ennises still out there feeling they have to hide their love away. because though times change for the better, some people don't so easily.. I'm proud of Ricky, and for the sake of gay teens, parents of gays, and their loved ones,I hope his act of courage encourages others to do the same.
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I don't know what Ricky Martin feels but he did say in his coming out statement that he is a fortunate gay man. I think he was referring to his freedom to come out, as you put it, due to all those pioneers. And lest we forget, Sir Elton John.
I also want to interject that there are different degrees of coming out. I think many Ennises of today are at least free to come out to themselves, to know that it's okay to be gay, and not an abomination, that there are other healthy happy gay people out there. It is kind of where Jack was, accepting of himself, wishing for happiness, but not yet free enough to be public with it.
The lucky few who found true love, have no reason to come out publically because it's nobody's business but theirs. They can choose to come out, as Milk demand of his campaign because it is a political statement that makes it possible for others to come out. But it is not an obligation for everyone. Each individual has to decide if and when and how to come out. And yes, bravo to Ricky.
The main reason for any single man to come out is to find others. It's near impossible to meet true love in the closet. Unless you are as lucky as Ennis and Jack that summer. :s) Then again, if it is true love, it will find you. Right? So again, there is no compelling reason to come out as publically as Ricky Martin. What's important is to be honest with oneself, first and foremost, then with friends and family. However we go with that, depends on the individual and the circumstance. Just my 2 cents. Ennis was in a different place and time. And as you said, even today, there are still places where behaving as Ennis did would be survival, but sometimes, surviving is not enough.
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I don't know what Ricky Martin feels but he did say in his coming out statement that he is a fortunate gay man. I think he was referring to his freedom to come out, as you put it, due to all those pioneers. And lest we forget, Sir Elton John.
I also want to interject that there are different degrees of coming out. I think many Ennises of today are at least free to come out to themselves, to know that it's okay to be gay, and not an abomination, that there are other healthy happy gay people out there. It is kind of where Jack was, accepting of himself, wishing for happiness, but not yet free enough to be public with it.
The lucky few who found true love, have no reason to come out publically because it's nobody's business but theirs. They can choose to come out, as Milk demand of his campaign because it is a political statement that makes it possible for others to come out. But it is not an obligation for everyone. Each individual has to decide if and when and how to come out. And yes, bravo to Ricky.
The main reason for any single man to come out is to find others. It's near impossible to meet true love in the closet. Unless you are as lucky as Ennis and Jack that summer. :s) Then again, if it is true love, it will find you. Right? So again, there is no compelling reason to come out as publically as Ricky Martin. What's important is to be honest with oneself, first and foremost, then with friends and family. However we go with that, depends on the individual and the circumstance. Just my 2 cents. Ennis was in a different place and time. And as you said, even today, there are still places where behaving as Ennis did would be survival, but sometimes, surviving is not enough.
Thanks , you say it so well. No none should be forced to come out or be "outed" against their wishes. It is a personal choice, but I always feel happy for those like Ricky or Sir Elton for I feel it gives hope to those who are still struggling with their own sexuality in the closets. But if one is true to themself, it's no one's business what they do with that knowledge as long as they feel free to pursue happiness as they see fit. Ennis only seemed really happy when he was with Jack which was telling, but I don't feel he felt he had options. He did what he felt he had to do to survive in those times.
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Thanks , you say it so well. No none should be forced to come out or be "outed" against their wishes. It is a personal choice, but I always feel happy for those like Ricky or Sir Elton for I feel it gives hope to those who are still struggling with their own sexuality in the closets. But if one is true to themself, it's no one's business what they do with that knowledge as long as they feel free to pursue happiness as they see fit. Ennis only seemed really happy when he was with Jack which was telling, but I don't feel he felt he had options. He did what he felt he had to do to survive in those times.
Thanks. You are too kind. I also agree that no one should be forced to come out. Even politicians; even homophobic Republican politicians.
Ricky and Sir Elton came out, I think, when they have found the love that makes them happy, and can rise above the turmoil of publicity from coming out. Sir Elton found true love, and wanted to get married and tell the whole world, like Christian said to Olli in noLimit after they first got together. Ricky found happiness with his children and is in a good place where he feels it was important to be honest. No matter what their circumstances, it's nobody's business but theirs.
And it's so cruel to make someone so happy to hide it. Poor Ennis. :(
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it is in humanities nature to over-complicate. for me, this is an intricate love story, filled with passion, denial, pain and grief. What's so different aboutbrokeback mountain and any other tragic love story??? just because its a guy and a guy in love doesnt mean its any different or any lesser than a great love story such as romeo and juliet, or titanic
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it is in humanities nature to over-complicate. for me, this is an intricate love story, filled with passion, denial, pain and grief. What's so different aboutbrokeback mountain and any other tragic love story??? just because its a guy and a guy in love doesnt mean its any different or any lesser than a great love story such as romeo and juliet, or titanic
Or Wuthering Heights...so many ways Ennis & Jack's tragic love remind me of Heathcliff & Cathy's.
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Or Wuthering Heights...so many ways Ennis & Jack's tragic love remind me of Heathcliff & Cathy's.
ahh...so, so painfully true my friend...
there are endless stories of starcross'd lovers, and Brokeback Mountain is certainly amongst the highest ranks of these <^(
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I have said formerly how angry I was the first times I watched BBM and afterwards,during a rather long time.One one hand,I understood that it was not easy for him,maybe less than for Jack,because he was who denied all the time with his brain,but wishing not deny it anymore with his heart.On the other hand, I was only seeing then that being so undecided as he was marked several lives for bad,and among them his owns,with a tragic result that surely could have been avoided and that was at his only hands.
Time's passing,however,teaches you to put yourself in other people's shoes,specially when you realise how badly gays are treated still in some cultures,similes nowdays to what Ennis and Jack's environment would be in first 60's.As Lance says in another thread,fear in that rural community was the same than now can suffer the Malawi's people,for example;and it's easy to judge when you are living in a more open-minded place saying that you wouldn't be so coward.I must intone the "mea culpa",then...
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i was never really angry or even frustrated at Ennis - his nature and social conditioning was such that he simply COULDN'T express his love verbally to Jack, even if he had had the courage to. I don't really think anyone has the right to be mad at him for his actions - he didn't know any different. When people say "why couldn't Ennis just run away with Jack?", the answer is because society had created such a fear within him that he just COULDN'T. It's as simple as that. He just couldn't.
In my opinion, the ones we should really be angry with is the society that made Ennis like that - incapable of expressing his love to Jack. It's society's fault, and that homophobic, fearful, aggressive, stifling society was really the cause of the entire problem. If they had been allowed to be together, Ennis would have been a very diffeent person and both men's lives would have been drastically different.
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i was never really angry or even frustrated at Ennis - his nature and social conditioning was such that he simply COULDN'T express his love verbally to Jack, even if he had had the courage to. I don't really think anyone has the right to be mad at him for his actions - he didn't know any different. When people say "why couldn't Ennis just run away with Jack?", the answer is because society had created such a fear within him that he just COULDN'T. It's as simple as that. He just couldn't.
In my opinion, the ones we should really be angry with is the society that made Ennis like that - incapable of expressing his love to Jack. It's society's fault, and that homophobic, fearful, aggressive, stifling society was really the cause of the entire problem. If they had been allowed to be together, Ennis would have been a very diffeent person and both men's lives would have been drastically different.
It's not just "society" in general. It was Ennis's father, specifically, his hatred manifested in, if not the murderous act, the condoning it, by showing it to the brothers.
It's not just the violence and aggression of those actively following a life of hatred, but also the silent ones who stood by doing nothing, either in action or speech, against the hatred. Jack's Ma, bless her, even though she was powerless, was powerful in her love for Jack. It is what made Jack different from Ennis; it is what healed Ennis in his moment of deepest despair, to know that there is love, unconditional compassionate love so strong that it filled their empty souls and heart. Even powerless and voiceless, her love spoke louder than the studduck that spat into a coffee cup.
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It's not just "society" in general. It was Ennis's father, specifically, his hatred manifested in, if not the murderous act, the condoning it, by showing it to the brothers.
It's not just the violence and aggression of those actively following a life of hatred, but also the silent ones who stood by doing nothing, either in action or speech, against the hatred. Jack's Ma, bless her, even though she was powerless, was powerful in her love for Jack. It is what made Jack different from Ennis; it is what healed Ennis in his moment of deepest despair, to know that there is love, unconditional compassionate love so strong that it filled their empty souls and heart. Even powerless and voiceless, her love spoke louder than the studduck that spat into a coffee cup.
But Ennis's father was a living proof and,let's say,the "active weapon"of this so close and narrow-minded society that condemned his love for Jack and that made him deny it and hide it even in front of himself.As you say,he dared to do what many others simply allowed with their silence and their misunderstanding;what,IMO,is also a way of showing and teaching hate.I also think that what "marked" and shocked Ennis for life was his father's specific action,but he knew for sure that there was many other "fathers" who would damn and hurt Jack and him,if not with tyres,with their hate,actively as well as passively before others people attacks.In this environment,yes,Jack's Ma was his only support,unluckily for them and their love because it was too late,and luckily because it allowed him to open himself to his world,to his feelings,and accept his love for another man as he never before had done... :_(
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It's not just "society" in general. It was Ennis's father, specifically, his hatred manifested in, if not the murderous act, the condoning it, by showing it to the brothers.
It's not just the violence and aggression of those actively following a life of hatred, but also the silent ones who stood by doing nothing, either in action or speech, against the hatred. Jack's Ma, bless her, even though she was powerless, was powerful in her love for Jack. It is what made Jack different from Ennis; it is what healed Ennis in his moment of deepest despair, to know that there is love, unconditional compassionate love so strong that it filled their empty souls and heart. Even powerless and voiceless, her love spoke louder than the studduck that spat into a coffee cup.
True, Ennis's father was a driving force in it, but I think that it's possible that Ennis's father actually represented and embodied the general feelings of the time
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True, Ennis's father was a driving force in it, but I think that it's possible that Ennis's father actually represented and embodied the general feelings of the time
There is a difference between the bigotry in society of that time, and the violence that killed Earl. The hatred was more intense than "the general feeling of the time." There is no excuse, at any time, for violence. It is the last resort of a hopeless situation, like war, or self-defense. Bigotry and prejudice can range from a tiny discomfort, through varying degrees of xenophobia.
Bigotry only affects the bigot when it is not expressed. Violence always creates victims, like Ennis when it's internalized, or like Earl.
Society's tacit permission made it okay to express their bigotry, even in violence. :(
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Society's tacit permission made it okay to express their bigotry, even in violence.
It seems to me that Mimi is really holding the general culture of that time, and place, fully accountable, for the violence that warped Ennis' response to his love for Jack. But I kind of think that the homophobia was not overwhelmingly pervasive and intense: there were just cubbyholes of intensity. Yet Lance's quote above certainly makes, in general, her approach more understandable; even if everyone wasn't a murderer, there did seem to be, as Lance called it, "tacit permission". We don't read of anybody being arrested for the murder of Earl.
Given that Ennis was aware of those sporadic cubbyholes of potential violence, and the tacit permission, it might be wrongful to have put on Ennis later, post-liberation frustrations about how he refused to challenge the prevailing culture. And since he was locked into that locality by his love for his daughters, and further, that it was all he had ever known, it couldn't be "fixed"; and that was, maybe what he was trying to explain to Jack, they had to stand it.
Of course Jack would happily move away. He was in the American tradition of always being willing to find a better home. But, sick and toxic as that place and time was on the issue of male love, that was the only home Ennis ever knew.
We could be angry with Ennis (some have been) but, in truth, converging lines had left him few options.
Anyway, great posts, Mimi and Lance! And also outstanding, all the very thoughtful and heartfelt posts before them!
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Of course Jack would happily move away. He was in the American tradition of always being willing to find a better home. But, sick and toxic as that place and time was on the issue of male love, that was the only home Ennis ever knew.
We could be angry with Ennis (some have been) but, in truth, converging lines had left him few options.
Great post yourself, Tony. Jack the rodeo cowboy willing to move, to follow his dreams. This reminds me of what Jet said during the Amazing Race, that it wasn't much different from what they were used to, traveling from rodeos to rodeos, riding for eight seconds in between the long journeys. Kinda like Jack's driving fourteen hours each way just to get a few high altitude f@#@s a few times each year.
Ennis was the fence post stuck in the same place, never willing to move anywhere, not Riverton, not Texas, going nowhere except around the coffee pot looking for the handle. He didn't have no incentive to move any place, except to look for work, and he didn't want to lose the little that he had, where ever he was.
"...converging lines...few options" the proverbial rock and the hard place. Poor Ennis. :_( He didn't have anything to move to, until he found Jack's Ma's welcoming arms and comforting hand. Let's face it, even if he knew about the two shirts, understood about Jack's love during the reunion by the river when Jack proposed the sweet life, he'd still be too afraid to ranch up with Jack, anywhere. He didn't know there were people like Jack's Ma, accepting and loving, just the way he was, the way Jack was. The revelation was liberation for Ennis. That's when he moved into his trailer, put down his mailbox, finally he had a place to call home, where he could connect with those he loved, Jack's Ma and his little darlings. Some people saw Ennis in his trailer and felt pity and sad, and rightfully so as described in Annie's short story, but I watch the movie and see the connection between Ennis and Jack's Ma, between Ennis and Junior, and I see a man with his heart open and eyes looking to the future while remembering a precious past.
The book is indeed very sad. The movie has a ray of hope that gives Brokeback Mountain new meaning, new life.
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It seems to me that Mimi is really holding the general culture of that time, and place, fully accountable, for the violence that warped Ennis' response to his love for Jack. But I kind of think that the homophobia was not overwhelmingly pervasive and intense: there were just cubbyholes of intensity. Yet Lance's quote above certainly makes, in general, her approach more understandable; even if everyone wasn't a murderer, there did seem to be, as Lance called it, "tacit permission". We don't read of anybody being arrested for the murder of Earl.
Given that Ennis was aware of those sporadic cubbyholes of potential violence, and the tacit permission, it might be wrongful to have put on Ennis later, post-liberation frustrations about how he refused to challenge the prevailing culture. And since he was locked into that locality by his love for his daughters, and further, that it was all he had ever known, it couldn't be "fixed"; and that was, maybe what he was trying to explain to Jack, they had to stand it.
Of course Jack would happily move away. He was in the American tradition of always being willing to find a better home. But, sick and toxic as that place and time was on the issue of male love, that was the only home Ennis ever knew.
We could be angry with Ennis (some have been) but, in truth, converging lines had left him few options.
Anyway, great posts, Mimi and Lance! And also outstanding, all the very thoughtful and heartfelt posts before them!
Thanks Tony, and great point too.
I didnt mean for my post to sound as though i hold society fully accountable for ennis' actions, merely that society's opinions formed the foundations for ennis's attitudes towards homosexuality. However, Ennis's actions were still, of course, his own, and therefore all the decisions he made and their repocussions were his own doing. But we all make mistakes
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Yup, knowing that we all make mistakes, that none of us is perfect, that we all have our own peculiarities as a result of our social conditioning, it is well that we do not judge poor Ennis too harshly, instead, following Jack's Ma example, and extend a friendly hand, a comforting hand, a soft touch on the shoulder to let him know that we understand, that we care.
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Thanks Tony, and great point too.
I didnt mean for my post to sound as though i hold society fully accountable for ennis' actions, merely that society's opinions formed the foundations for ennis's attitudes towards homosexuality. However, Ennis's actions were still, of course, his own, and therefore all the decisions he made and their repocussions were his own doing. But we all make mistakes
I also think that it was Ennis's father's actions and his hatred for gays that formed the foundation of Ennis's feelings towards gays. Hate is taught and behavior is learned. Imo it starts at home. Society promotes and tolerates what is already established. I think Ennis was a little kid just waiting to be filled with knowledge from the two people who had the first, best impression on him. The Parents. Chances are if parents hate, be it along racial lines, or along the lines of sexual orientation, chances are, they will instill that same hatred and prejudice into their children..
Ennis and Jack's fathers were both dominating, strict men and sick with it. Ennis's father even taking his children to view what happens to the men who dare buck the secret code of society and fall in love with each other. The trauma conditioned him, robbed him of free will.
Somewhere along the line imho, Ennis found out that all he had been taught about two men being in love by his father was wrong, that gay men such as Earl were'nt these evil creatures, undeserving of love and understanding and that daddy Del Mar and his friends chose to hate and even murder, but he also learned that who you love really is'nt a choice, it just happens....after he met Jack, he wanted to protect him from harm and Earl's horrible fate.
Jack (for the most part) and his mother had a big part in showing him that regardless of anyone's opinions about it, nature takes it's course..
I think for him to accept loving Jack was very personal thing for Ennis, to give of himself, but all the baggage impressed upon him in his young life was never far from him., He felt keeping his love hidden from society became a matter of survival for him AND Jack in rural Wy. Mo.
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I also think that it was Ennis's father's actions and his hatred for gays that formed the foundation of Ennis's feelings towards gays.
Somewhere along the line imho, Ennis found out that all he had been taught about two men being in love by his father was wrong, that gay men such as Earl were'nt these evil creatures, undeserving of love and understanding and that daddy Del Mar and his friends chose to hate and even murder, but he also learned that who you love really is'nt a choice, it just happens....after he met Jack, he wanted to protect him from harm and Earl's horrible fate.
Aintfoolin, you know I always agreed with you about Ennis' character (and usually was just kidding on the question of: "Did Ennis Bottom?"). But there is so much in your post above, that it raises the question of whether Ennis followed his father's hatred for gays, or whether he just avoided the subject, with light prejudices, and no hate. We did not see him approve of the murder of Earl in any way, and he didn't call them queers, but instead said: "They was tough old birds", almost respectfully.
Your post had insights into either possibility, and I've quoted your post where you weakened an apparent judgment (if I read it correctly) that he did share, accept, or agree with, even if if passively, the hatred his father had had.
I honestly believe this is a territory not explored yet, for discussion, and deserves its own thread, as pursuing it here would be, I suspect, way off-topic. But am not up to starting one, and only hope that you, or someone else would, so we could bat things around some. I think you did well, but this subject would have at least two approaches, and within your post was the groundwork for both.
AF, I haven't seen this pursued coherently anywhere, and I thank you for touching on it, even if that was not your intent. Again, I do hope someone starts a new thread, maybe: "Did Ennis share his father's hate?" IMO, it's worth some serious exploration and back-and-forth.
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Both you fellas' have some very insightful comments here (as usual) and sure could be a topic of it's own, - hard to imagine it's not been covered somewhere else, but I can't find it
:s).
Personally, I feel this is one of the prime tenants of the film, Ennis's working his way through (and abandoning) these inherited emotions over twenty years. From his "I'm not no queer" to his loving embrace (and worship) of another man's shirt twenty years later.
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Both you fellas' have some very insightful comments here (as usual) and sure could be a topic of it's own, - hard to imagine it's not been covered somewhere else, but I can't find it
:s).
Personally, I feel this is one of the prime tenants of the film, Ennis's working his way through (and abandoning) these inherited emotions over twenty years. From his "I'm not no queer" to his loving embrace (and worship) of another man's shirt twenty years later.
Excellent point Jackster, and I think you've really just hit the nail on the head: the story is all about Ennis's journey through life and how he handles the events, some which he cannot control, others which he creates himself. The film is about his evolution, if you like, how he grows and changes over the years with Jack, and how he becomes the broken lonely man at the end of the movie, in a small trailer with nothing but two shirts and a postcard...
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For me,the point is not feeling anger or sympathy towards Ennis,but trying to understand him and understand his reasons.Since he's the most complex and evolutioned character in the movie-slightly less in the s.s.-,this understanding demands a greater effort on the part of the viewer.Mimi has described very well in her post above:...the story is all about Ennis's journey through life and how he handles the events, some which he cannot control, others which he creates himself. The film is about his evolution, if you like, how he grows and changes over the years with Jack....Exactly ¡ I think the story is seen and told from Ennis point of view,or at least,putting him as the real protagonist:remarking about all his great inner struggle with and against himself.You can,then,feel more or less empathy with the way he manages this struggle,but the truth is that the real struggle than,in this case,we have to handle is to put us in his shoes.And I'm afraid is not always easy...
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It is interesting how this thread, and Was Ennis Gay, have converged to the same topic, on how Ennis shared in his Pa's homophobia. As discussed in that other thread, it appears that Ennis developed a different level of homophobia that is more aversion that hatred.
On another note, it is interesting to think that Annie set out originally to write the story of these two gay cowboys, inspired by the old cowboy yearning after the young cowboys in a bar, and ended up inspiring Diana Oksanna to write a story of the evolution of a homophobic gay man, and gave Heath the opportunity to give the performance of a life time, creating the one and only Ennis whose story touched us so deeply, that in part, IMO, carried us with him on that journey, and made our society a more accepting place. ^f^
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good point. Brokeback has touched so many people and swayed their opinions in such a positive way. I feel indebted to all those involved; heath, jake, ang, dianna, etc. for opening certain people's eyes and bringing such beauty into my and their lives
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It is interesting how this thread, and Was Ennis Gay, have converged to the same topic, on how Ennis shared in his Pa's homophobia. As discussed in that other thread, it appears that Ennis developed a different level of homophobia that is more aversion that hatred.
On another note, it is interesting to think that Annie set out originally to write the story of these two gay cowboys, inspired by the old cowboy yearning after the young cowboys in a bar, and ended up inspiring Diana Oksanna to write a story of the evolution of a homophobic gay man, and gave Heath the opportunity to give the performance of a life time, creating the one and only Ennis whose story touched us so deeply, that in part, IMO, carried us with him on that journey, and made our society a more accepting place. ^f^
I think that if both threads converge is for a logical reason;in "Was Ennis gay?" because we analyse the influence his father's homophobia could have in Ennis own and,even,in his later attraction for another man.And in this one-at least,in my own case-,because we are trying to understand his reasons more than simply feeling some sympathy or aversion towards him.And it's sure than his father's behaviour-and homophobia- had a lot to do with the boy's and the feelings that this way of being we could have towards him.
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I think that Ennis was totally captured by love for Jack but he didnt have dialectic capability to understand what it happened to him and enought force to win his fears; Im thinking to the scene whene he vomiting and crie at the same time after leaving Jack... a classical somatization; It seems that Ennis was in love much more than Jack.Ennis upsets his life while Jack is able to organize it. Jack had capability to find other relations and seems to more tolerate to be with other mans; following his passions Jack was more exposed to social prejudgement and that will carry him to death for assassination! By this way paradoxically he didnt protect his relation with Ennis and removed maybe the only possibility for Ennis to found love in his live.
Finally I think Ennis was the victim of the story, of himself and of his society
I love very much Ennis.
Coguaro
I don't think that Jack was less in love than Ennis, and If Jack Had other men in his life, it's rightly because he couldn't be with his lover permanently, and this choice was not his but Ennis's choice. After the divorce scene when Jack realized that he will never have the sweet life he craved for, he went to Mexico like a dead man, he was completly broken inside. That's not a surprise that Jack became reckless at the end, his life had no meaning anymore, a life without Ennis was not a life anymore. Jack became through the years more and more psychologically dead inside, and it's like at the end he called the physical death unconsciously to relieve his unbearable pain. Jack is for me much more the victim than Ennis. In fact, Ennis had all the cards in hands, and unfortunatly for Jack, he made the wrong choices: he denied first his true-self, he refused to live a happy life with the love of his life. In a way, Ennis killed Jack, psychologicaly speaking, denying the sweet life proposal. The consequences of the wrong choices of Ennis were fatal for both of them. Jack got killed without Ennis by his side, without his protection, and Ennis ended his life as a miserable soul full of regrets! :-\\
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It's a pity that English is not my mother language, I would have loved to reply more, to put new ideas, to put some nuances in my ideas, but I cannot! I would have loved to be here 6 years ago when this wonderful place were created, where 898 brokies souls were here communicated non- stop about Ennis & Jack. Since 6 years every aspect of the film had been covered, every details had been discussed, I have now this extreme anguish that this thread is almost dead, no let put some nuance that all the thread could be archived! Sorry I know I'm totally *o)
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I don't think that Jack was less in love than Ennis, and If Jack Had other men in his life, it's rightly because he couldn't be with his lover permanently, and this choice was not his but Ennis's choice. After the divorce scene when Jack realized that he will never have the sweet life he craved for, he went to Mexico like a dead man, he was completly broken inside. That's not a surprise that Jack became reckless at the end, his life had no meaning anymore, a life without Ennis was not a life anymore. Jack became through the years more and more psychologically dead inside, and it's like at the end he called the physical death unconsciously to relieve his unbearable pain. Jack is for me much more the victim than Ennis. In fact, Ennis had all the cards in hands, and unfortunatly for Jack, he made the wrong choices: he denied first his true-self, he refused to live a happy life with the love of his life. In a way, Ennis killed Jack, psychologicaly speaking, denying the sweet life proposal. The consequences of the wrong choices of Ennis were fatal for both of them. Jack got killed without Ennis by his side, without his protection, and Ennis ended his life as a miserable soul full of regrets! :-\\
Goodness, Forever, if your command of English is any better, you'd really blow us out of the water with your insight and comments. (:* :^^)
Your verdict is harsh but true. The pain and regret for Ennis come from a deeper place, not just the missed opportunities, the death of a future sweet life that will never be, but more poignantly as you pointed out, he felt responsible for the many times he denied Jack that sweet life. Those many flashbacks to the riverside, to the final confrontation, to the just thinking out loud, to... Whatever the physical cause of death, Ennis felt responsible for the psychological death of the Jack he knew and loved, but evolved over twenty years into the bitter lonely reckless man he left standing after the final confrontation, probably in tears. He grieved in the closet for the lively funny man he sucker punched back on that mountain twenty years ago.
This reminds me of the unrequited love from a recent movie I saw, 500 days of Summer...a great film if you get a chance to watch it. Unrequited love, especially when it started with mutual passion, like with Ennis and Jack, is painful beyond words. It is as you described, the psychological death of the one whose love is unrequited. It makes the lesson more important, to be honest and up front with potential lovers and not leading them on. Imagine if Ennis refused at SNIT. There would be no heartache, no Brokeback Mountain. Imagine if Ennis refused to answer the postcard. Instead of sending "You bet :)" sending "Okay, my wife and I will have dinner with you." Imagine, if there were never no reunion kiss. :(
Perhaps the scene after the divorce was Ennis's way of telling Jack off. Yet, he could never say no, not completely, so Jack hung on for twenty years, dying a little every year. :_(
Brokeback Mountain...the love with so many faces, phases. <^(