Brokeback Mountain Forum @ ennisjack.com
The Movie & Story => Characters, Quotes & Scenes => Topic started by: sjimf on Mar 23, 2006, 07:30 AM
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Sorry - I don't know if this topic has been brought up because I am fairly new to this post but I am wondering if anyone else has a theory as to why Ang left the powerful childhood scene of Jack's father abusing him from Annie's book? It comes near the end of her story as Ennis is in Jack's home and he remembers back on the event as Jack told him. Was it too over the top? Did it suggest that we are to infer that some of Jack's gayness stemmed from this (I don't necessarily agree with this) and Ang didn't want us to go there? Is it too violent for the emotional point of the movie (It could have been shifted to another part of the movie as Ang did with other scenes). It's such a powerful image and I wondered why it was left out.
Jim
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I agree that this scene in the short story is very powerful. However, one important aspect of the scene is that Jack realizes the physical difference between himself and his father, that his father is not circumcised. I don't believe there would be anyway to relay that information in a non-visual manner.
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Hello Jim. Thanks, and welcome.
The urination scene has been mentioned a number of times previously, but to my knowledge, there has been no discussion as to why this scene was not included.
A month ago, I think I did make some personal notes on the scenes in the story that were NOT included. This scene and the dream sequences are the most prominent. (There is already a thread dealing with the dream sequences and what possible effect their omission had.)
One thing that came out of my notes is that Ang Lee's style would probably have dictated the exclusion of such scenes. His style in this movie is very understated. He reminds me of a bonsai tender who prunes more than anything else. The sensibility pertaining to this scene would have been much too vivid (and brutal) for his taste, I would say. Plus, it would have been difficult to link this to the other scenes cinematically speaking. As a part of the short story, it makes brilliant sense -- acting as a commentary that brings to life the already deceased Jack, as a device that throws into sharper focus Jack's troubled relationship with his dad, and as a barometer to Ennis' darkening horizons close to the end of the story.
Also, note precisely where in the short story this recollection by Ennis is inserted in. It would have been awkward in the movie to include it there, and it would probably not have made that much sense to include it in earlier scenes. The movie loses a bit of the emotional precision this scene gave, but gained in subtlety. Everything was already implied when you get to see John Twist during Ennis's visit to Jack's boyhood home. Plus, the movie makes reference to visual signposts (in this case, 'American Gothic', by the painter Grant Wood) -- something that was not done in the short story. Some gains, some losses...
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Very interesting post sjimf, I don't believe this has been brought up either. And we can leave this as a thread on its on, or maybe we can merge it with the other thread related to cut scenes later. We will see how it goes (I thinking ahead "<OT> posts" )
Anyway, thank you very much tpe, I had not thought about this like that.
I know that some scenes could not be included because they would have been too difficult to adapt for the cinema.
But also one great thing I love about Annie Proulx's work, is that some key scenes have to work with the reader's imagination. They seem to be very powerful scenes, and like that the reader can see/imagine what he/she wants.
Personally, it seems that I had deleted this scene from my memory of the story, I probable skim through it everytime I read the short story.
ps: I also love your Ang Lee/bonzai description He reminds me of a bonsai tender who prunes more than anything else.
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I'm just gonna have to go out and buy this. I can't really afford it, but the waiting list for the library has twenty people ahead of me. They have five copies, and it's still twenty people for each one.
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I know that some scenes could not be included because they would have been too difficult to adapt for the cinema.
But also one great thing I love about Annie Proulx's work, is that some key scenes have to work with the reader's imagination. They seem to be very powerful scenes, and like that the reader can see/imagine what he/she wants.
Personally, it seems that I had deleted this scene from my memory of the story, I probable skim through it everytime I read the short story.
ps: I also love your Ang Lee/bonzai description
Thanka also Froggy for the kind comments. And yes, her scenes can be so powerful that you think you're not reading a short story: so much compression. This scene in particular -- almost stated as an afterthought. And then by the time you finished reding the passage, it dawns on you what she actually just described to you. Quite difficult to catch on film -- the effect, I mean.
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I'm just gonna have to go out and buy this. I can't really afford it, but the waiting list for the library has twenty people ahead of me. They have five copies, and it's still twenty people for each one.
bram, I am quite encouraged that the story is being widely read. It is most heartening.
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I'm just gonna have to go out and buy this. I can't really afford it, but the waiting list for the library has twenty people ahead of me. They have five copies, and it's still twenty people for each one.
bram, I am quite encouraged that the story is being widely read. It is most heartening.
At the Barbara Bush library even.
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At the Barbara Bush library even.
Miracles do happen. :)
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It would have been almost impossible to include the urination scene in the film at any point, much less where it is furnished in the story. It is an episode of flagrant child abuse. I think that it would have been too much for many views, not to mention censors. What is important in that episode is the way that Jack feels about it:
"But while he was hosin me down I seen he had some extra material that I was missin. I seen they’d cut me different like you’d crop a ear or scorch a brand. No way to get it right with him after that.” (AP)
He feels that he is different... branded... marked. Although the scene doesn't appear in the film, I think that Jack's consideration of himself as a "marked" man does appear in Jakes's fine performance. Allan
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He feels that he is different... branded... marked. Although the scene doesn't appear in the film, I think that Jack's consideration of himself as a "marked" man does appear in Jakes's fine performance. Allan
In some sense, it was the realization that he was 'marked' made him care less about how his actions and intentions were construed. Could you imagine Ennis making overtures to the rodeo clown? I think the humiliation and the trauma of the early childhood incident hardened Jack a bit... He knew he was different...
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Such great insight from you all...thanks. It certainly hleps put things in perspective. What I felt most deeply, that the short story scene just wouldn't transfer to film with its intent intact, is what many of you said.
It does make me appreciate the fact that I can enojy the book on many levels and then enjoy the movie on many other levels. We sure are lucky.
Just bought Annie's Bad Dirt (Wyoming Stories 2) last night...having enjoyed Close Range so much. I look forward to wandering around Wyoming so more in these stories.
Bram - its worth the cost of the book. I've read it several times...its a great "soaking in the bathtub and having a good cry" book. Her language just inspires me. it awakens my sleeping heart...sometimes through pain and sorrow...but, hey, whatever wakes me up is a good thing!
Jim
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Bram - its worth the cost of the book. I've read it several times...its a great "soaking in the bathtub and having a good cry" book. Her language just inspires me. it awakens my sleeping heart...sometimes through pain and sorrow...but, hey, whatever wakes me up is a good thing!
Jim
Oh, I'll end up buying it. It's just that right now I have about $100 to my name and I've got to pay about $500 in bills withtin the next week. I found a job yesterday, which means that I can borrow money from people, since they now know that I'll be able to pay them back. Before yesterday I really had no idea what I was going to do. I was going to lose my phone, my place to live, and get kicked out of school. I was gonna have to couch hop and then start from scratch.
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bram, I hope it gets better. And you will love 'Close Range', I'm sure.
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He feels that he is different... branded... marked. Although the scene doesn't appear in the film, I think that Jack's consideration of himself as a "marked" man does appear in Jakes's fine performance. Allan
In some sense, it was the realization that he was 'marked' made him care less about how his actions and intentions were construed. Could you imagine Ennis making overtures to the rodeo clown? I think the humiliation and the trauma of the early childhood incident hardened Jack a bit... He knew he was different...
Both these observations have helped me better understand what that scene in the book was all about. I have read and reread it so many times and still couldn't make any sense of it. Thanks for all the posts here.