Brokeback Mountain Forum @ ennisjack.com
The Movie & Story => Characters, Quotes & Scenes => Topic started by: roguejedi on Apr 02, 2006, 12:30 AM
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Hey Folks...
As we come near the DVD release date, I can't wait to re-watch the scene whereby Ennis looked outside through Jack's bedroom window. I mean, every move that Ennis made inside Jack's bedroom is so poignant. Aside from the shirt-discovery scene, I found the "looking through Jack's window" heart-wrenching as well. I interpreted that as Ennis looking outside to life through Jack's eyes :'( :'( :'(. Ennis was trying to see what Jack saw every morning as he looked out to the world. What do you all think?
Take care,
drew
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Hey Folks...
As we come near the DVD release date, I can't wait to re-watch the scene whereby Ennis looked outside through Jack's bedroom window. I mean, every move that Ennis made inside Jack's bedroom is so poignant. Aside from the shirt-discovery scene, I found the "looking through Jack's window" heart-wrenching as well. I interpreted that as Ennis looking outside to life through Jack's eyes :'( :'( :'(. Ennis was trying to see what Jack saw every morning as he looked out to the world. What do you all think?
Take care,
drew
i find that everything he did in jack's room was just so.... umm.. i can't think of a word.. but still.. how he moved so slow. He was careful with everything he touched. The carved horse.. even putting up the window. I agree with you about him seeing things thru Jack's eyes but I also think he was trying to get some fresh air. This is probably the saddest moment in his life. He needs to have fresh air to breathe. To survive this process of going thru Jack's room. The whole scene is beautiful . Priceless.
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Hey Folks...
As we come near the DVD release date, I can't wait to re-watch the scene whereby Ennis looked outside through Jack's bedroom window. I mean, every move that Ennis made inside Jack's bedroom is so poignant. Aside from the shirt-discovery scene, I found the "looking through Jack's window" heart-wrenching as well. I interpreted that as Ennis looking outside to life through Jack's eyes :'( :'( :'(. Ennis was trying to see what Jack saw every morning as he looked out to the world. What do you all think?
Take care,
drew
Drew, I haven't thought about it that way and this is a beautiful thought. I felt that being in his room and touching his things is the closest Ennis could get to Jack. when he sat down near the window, I felt like he was trying to be with Jack, as close to him as possible. seeing things thru his eyes - it's a beautiful idea, I think you're right. I feel this way too. I think that if he hadn't noticed the closet with the clothes in it he would have kept sitting there... and of course when he found the shirts he tried again to be as close to Jack as possible, by holding the shirts close to his heart and breathing Jack's smell... I'd better stop now before I start crying. :'( :'(
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The window looked down on the gravel road stretching south and it occurred to him that for his growing-up years that was the only road Jack knew.
:'( :-\
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Thank you everyone for this thread so far; it brought my awareness back to this scene.....and thank you, Lost_Girl for the photo of Ennis at the window: and that quote from the story ".......that was the only road Jack knew" really breaks my heart now that I focus on the words ........Lonliness really is one of the major themes of BBM.
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The window looked down on the gravel road stretching south and it occurred to him that for his growing-up years that was the only road Jack knew.
South to Mexico and physical enjoyment as a gay man?
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This scene also has a great parallel at the very end of the movie, when Ennis looks at his and Jack's shirts hanging in the trailer--and we see the world outside his window. This, now, is the only road *he* will ever know. Another link he feels to Jack--another reason for his "Jack, I swear...."
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I think it is a little 'spooky' that when the 'closet-scene' starts we see Ennis from that closet - as if Jack was standing there in the closet, his spirit or something like that....
*now I'm crying again*
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I think it is a little 'spooky' that when the 'closet-scene' starts we see Ennis from that closet - as if Jack was standing there in the closet, his spirit or something like that....
*now I'm crying again*
PetterG there is an old topic that discusses exactly what you just said. I think you will enjoy it...
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PetterG there is an old topic that discusses exactly what you just said. I think you will enjoy it...
Thanks for that - sorry if I missed it - there are so very many here. But I don't think I will 'enjoy' it, I thik it will cause more tears just...
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Thanks for that - sorry if I missed it - there are so very many here. But I don't think I will 'enjoy' it, I thik it will cause more tears just...
I was trying to find it for you. I will have to try harder a bit! :)
Tears are just as precious.
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This scene also has a great parallel at the very end of the movie, when Ennis looks at his and Jack's shirts hanging in the trailer--and we see the world outside his window. This, now, is the only road *he* will ever know. Another link he feels to Jack--another reason for his "Jack, I swear...."
Nice parallel, shieldmaid. And upon rereading the story, I realize that Ms. Proulx describes the scene of the plains outside of Ennis' window as bleak (not her word exactly) suggesting Ennis is now down from Brokeback Mountain forever, and this is indeed the only world he will ever know. So heart breakingly sad.
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The window looked down on the gravel road stretching south and it occurred to him that for his growing-up years that was the only road Jack knew.
:'( :-
I've been waiting for this quote to show up here. Lost_Girl ya got me crying again with both the quote and the pictures. I think the whole visit to Jack's home is my favorite part of the movie. But that's probably just today. Every part of the movie is my favorite part.
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and I notice in your photo, BBBOy, the carving of cowboy on horse which was discussed in another thread and still fascinates me: Ang Lee made a point of having Ennis pick it up and observe it. So, any new ideas about this detail?
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and I notice in your photo, BBBOy, the carving of cowboy on horse which was discussed in another thread and still fascinates me: Ang Lee made a point of having Ennis pick it up and observe it. So, any new ideas about this detail?
I don't personally believe that this is the carving which Ennis did. But I still think it has great significance.
First of all, as one of a very few toys in the room and a toy to survive some 30 years in Jack's room, it is undoubtedly something that Jack played with countless times. Something significant enough to Jack that it remained. How many times Jack must have played with that very toy again and again as a young boy.
Second, the toy cowboy on a horse is a meaningful, fitting icon of someone who probably idolized his father, a rodeo rider. This is notably more meaningful than if the toy was a tractor, or a coonskin cap, or a truck, for example.
Third, that first summer with Ennis had Jack on horseback much of the time, more than a few times trying to show off his rodeo skills by getting that mare to jump and buck. Horses are a big part of Ennis' image of and time with Jack.
There's something special, sometimes almost spellbinding or even haunting, about getting glimpses into the childhood of a loved one who we did not know at that age. Ennis might have briefly wondered what Jack as a boy might have been like, and how often he must have played with this toy. How many times he must have played with it in that lonely little room, how he must have dreamed of being a cowboy when he grew up.
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thanks, dalemidex, for your response; it makes sense to me, especially considering the carving as a token from Jack's childhood. Maybe his father even carved it once upon a time! Yet, it still harks back to the carving Ennis was working on in the tent.
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This scene also has a great parallel at the very end of the movie, when Ennis looks at his and Jack's shirts hanging in the trailer--and we see the world outside his window. This, now, is the only road *he* will ever know. Another link he feels to Jack--another reason for his "Jack, I swear...."
Like so many of you, I received my copy of BBM and watched it first thing this morning. I have been sobbing non-stop since, and I promised I would not do that anymore. This final scene of Ennis opening the closet door and seeing the shirts tears me apart, and I find myself wishing I could go to him and just hug him and tell him it is alright, as Jack did the last time they were together. I have this fear that Ennis will live the remainder of his life, a sad, broken man. I just want to do something to make him smile again, like he smiled for Jack at the campfire, so long ago on that mountain. I came across some beautiful lyrics to a song that are the most appropriate for Ennis I have ever heard. Please bear through them as you will be moved.
We all want to make a place in this world
We all want our voices to be heard
Everyone wants a chance to be someone
We all have dreams we need to dream
Sweeter than any star you can reach
Cause when you reach and find you found someone
You hold the world's most precious thing
The greatest gift that life can bring
When you look back and know you were loved.
You were loved by someone, touched by someone,
held by someone, meant something to someone,
loved somebody, touched somebody's heart along the way
you can look back and say, you were loved.
You can have diamonds in your hand
have all the riches in the land
but without love, you don't really have nothing
will somebody care that you're alive
will somebody trust you with their life
that is when you know that you have all you need
You hold the world's most precious gift
the finest treasure that there is
you can look back and know
you were loved.
So many roads that you can take
whatever way you go
don't take that road alone
it's better you should know.
You are loved by someone, touched by someone
held by someone, meant something to someone
loved somebody, touched somebody's heart along the way
you can look back and say,
you did OK, you were loved.
So remember to tell that special one, you were loved......Diane Warren
Jack loved you Ennis, and we all know you loved him too. Keep that love with you always.
Here I am crying all over again.
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and I notice in your photo, BBBOy, the carving of cowboy on horse which was discussed in another thread and still fascinates me: Ang Lee made a point of having Ennis pick it up and observe it. So, any new ideas about this detail?
You know Stephen,
I mentioned the possibility of that carving being the one that Ennis was working on in the tent that stormy day, several weeks ago in another thread. The majority of the readers thought it was different and not the same one that Ennis did. I am still not convinced that it isn't. It was in it's earliest stage, when we saw it, and I am sure there were many more opportunities for Ennis to continue to work on it. And it seems appropriate for Jack to keep it on his dresser as a reminder of Ennis. I think his mother knew the significance of it and left it there for Jack to see whenever he came home, like the shirts in the closet.
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Yes, I remember your post and I think it was I who asked the question; I tend to agree with you, too, but either way it works! If the cowboy on horseback is a momento from Jack's father's rodeo days, or carved by Jack, himself, it has one kind of sad significance, and if it's the finished product from Ennis' carving, it works on a very different level indeed! That's what's so magical and heart breaking about the film: either way you cut it, it's an inexorable tragedy.
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The biggest reason I didn't think the carving was the one Ennis did: The toy in Jack's room has a rider which appears to be one piece with the horse. Ennis' carving has no rider. Am I missing something there?
Doesn't lessen the importance much to me, however.
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The biggest reason I didn't think the carving was the one Ennis did: The toy in Jack's room has a rider which appears to be one piece with the horse. Ennis' carving has no rider. Am I missing something there?
Doesn't lessen the importance much to me, however.
It is very difficult to tell if it is a one piece or two. What just occurred to me is that the horse IS the one Ennis carved and Jack carved the rider to put on it. I do know this for sure, the horse had SOME significance because Ennis cried as he held it. When he looks up, his face is wet under his eyes.
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi43.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe359%2FPatriotOne%2FCarvedHorse.jpg&hash=433471047f6fb014dba0ff28a3328269773f444d)
Tears under his left eye and in the corner of his right eye
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The biggest reason I didn't think the carving was the one Ennis did: The toy in Jack's room has a rider which appears to be one piece with the horse. Ennis' carving has no rider. Am I missing something there?
Doesn't lessen the importance much to me, however.
It is very difficult to tell if it is a one piece or two. What just occurred to me is that the horse IS the one Ennis carved and Jack carved the rider to put on it. I do know this for sure, the horse had SOME significance because Ennis cried as he held it. When he looks up, his face is wet under his eyes.
That's a good observation. I reread that section in Annie's story and there is no mention of the horse or rider at all. As dalemidex said, it dsoesn't lessen the importance, but actually gives us an additional reason to participate, creatively as well as emotionally.
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Hey Folks...
As we come near the DVD release date, I can't wait to re-watch the scene whereby Ennis looked outside through Jack's bedroom window. I mean, every move that Ennis made inside Jack's bedroom is so poignant. Aside from the shirt-discovery scene, I found the "looking through Jack's window" heart-wrenching as well. I interpreted that as Ennis looking outside to life through Jack's eyes :'( :'( :'(. Ennis was trying to see what Jack saw every morning as he looked out to the world. What do you all think?
Take care,
drew
I took away a couple of things from that scene...first was the stifling and overbearing presence of the room...and Jack's life growing up in that environment. I think Ennis felt the same thing and when he raised the window it was to let some air into that stale, small, cramped space. A space way too small for Jack's big spirt.
Also, like yourself, I believe Ennis was truly seeing throught Jack's eyes. For twenty years he had denied their life together because he was so caught up in his own fear and doubt...now with Jack gone I think he was truly trying to understand Jack and what had made him "tick" as a human being. He finally realized his need for Jack and was trying to be close to him again...in any way he could. :'( :'( :'(
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What just occurred to me is that the horse IS the one Ennis carved and Jack carved the rider to put on it. I do know this for sure, the horse had SOME significance because Ennis cried as he held it. When he looks up, his face is wet under his eyes.
As nice as that might seem, well...
(1) If the horse and rider are two separate carved wooden pieces, carved at different times, no less, they sure stay together remarkably well. Especially since the whittling Ennis was doing was probably a piece of softer wood, more likely to warp over time when carved into spindly detail.
(2) The toy Ennis holds appears painted and detailed, both horse and rider. The type of rough-hewn horse that Ennis would have made up on the mountain wouldn't even have been sanded.
(3) If Jack was able to carve that rider with such detail, he sure missed his calling in life. Especially considering he never seemed to do anything much quite right. Nor did Jack seem to be the type to carrying through and finish something with that level of detail and time committment. Not impossible, but not exactly in character to me.
Is it possible that Ennis gave Jack his carving? And Jack spend a great deal of time and care over the winter carving a perfectly-fitting rider? Then sanding, painting and detailing both the horse and rider? And then Ennis recognized his rough-hen horse 19 years later? Sure, I suppose. But I think it's not exactly an easy leap.
Why the tears, then? Well, Jack is dead, Ennis just found out that Jack was seemingly giving up and trying to move on with his life by bringing up another fella to Wyoming, Jack's mother just squeezed his shoulder in a very knowing way and sent Ennis up to Jack's old room, and now Ennis sees some of the things which made Jack into Jack growing up. And of course Ennis is finally alone and free to shed tears that he undoubtedly wouldn't let himself shed in front of Jack's parents. I'd be more concerned if Ennis *didn't* have tears in that room, horse or no horse.
I really don't think it takes anything away from the story or the impact of the scene if the horse is not the one Ennis carved. And as much as it would be cool if that were the case, I don't see the pieces quite fitting together that way.
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I took away a couple of things from that scene...first was the stifling and overbearing presence of the room...and Jack's life growing up in that environment. I think Ennis felt the same thing and when he raised the window it was to let some air into that stale, small, cramped space. A space way too small for Jack's big spirit.
Wow, that was VERY poignant. I can clearly imagine Jack almost physically needing to burst out of that room as an emerging teen and young adult.
I interpreted that as Ennis looking outside to life through Jack's eyes :'( :'( :'(. Ennis was trying to see what Jack saw every morning as he looked out to the world. What do you all think?
I see it that way too. Ennis is trying to at last, far too late, understand better who Jack really was. :'(
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Thank you, Patriot, for the photo: I hadn't even noticed the tears when I saw the film for the 6th time! I was so focused on the horse and rider. I guess we'll never know for sure who carved the horse and rider, but as I said before, it works poignantly whatever interpretation we choose! And thank you, dalemidex, for your indepth take on this mysterious handcrafted piece!
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I took away a couple of things from that scene...first was the stifling and overbearing presence of the room...and Jack's life growing up in that environment. I think Ennis felt the same thing and when he raised the window it was to let some air into that stale, small, cramped space. A space way too small for Jack's big spirit.
Wow, that was VERY poignant. I can clearly imagine Jack almost physically needing to burst out of that room as an emerging teen and young adult.
Reading your posts, I've been remembering how that bedroom always seemed unwelcoming. It's almost an image of Mr Twist's face. Yet when Ennis moves to the closet, the rest of the bedroom suddenly disappears, and the closet seems just as big as the room was, with a lot more space, some how. How I relate to that !
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Yes, Stephan, I had the same reaction; and now that you mention it, I think it's the camera work that gives that impression: for the closet scene, the camera moves in for a close-up, and we stay there with Ennis, and don't see the room again. By the way, while we're on details, did you notice how when Ennis brings the shirts to his face, the curve of the hanger nearly encircles his right eye! For some reason that always strikes me when I see that scene.
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I find this scene one of the most moving in the film... from when Jack's mother invites him to go up there - its almost like we go with Ennis right to the centre of Jack's being - inside his head and heart. And there is a beautiful, timeless stillness there. Its like life and love are stripped down to a bare essence, which Ennis is desparate to find.
For me, I was so drawn into this scene, I could believe that Jack left the shirts there, knowing that Ennis would find them. I wonder if Jack's mother thought the same?
Also, the music in this is scene is perfect, so poignant...
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Nicely said, jazzsinger. It's certainly the most poignant scene in the film; and the silence of the scene, and the way Ennis moves about the space as if to breathe in the spirit of Jack is heartbreaking.
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Hey Folks...
As we come near the DVD release date, I can't wait to re-watch the scene whereby Ennis looked outside through Jack's bedroom window. I mean, every move that Ennis made inside Jack's bedroom is so poignant. Aside from the shirt-discovery scene, I found the "looking through Jack's window" heart-wrenching as well. I interpreted that as Ennis looking outside to life through Jack's eyes :'( :'( :'(. Ennis was trying to see what Jack saw every morning as he looked out to the world. What do you all think?
Take care,
drew
I had the same thought when I saw that scene. I thought that he was trying to see what Jack saw every day, when he woke up. Looking out that window, to see life through Jack's eyes. Oh God... :( :'(
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I had the same thought when I saw that scene. I thought that he was trying to see what Jack saw every day, when he woke up. Looking out that window, to see life through Jack's eyes. Oh God... :( :'(
In the novel that is rather clear, it says something like "so, this was the road he saw every day".
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I think Ennis was looking outside to see it through Jack's eyes..and maybe a peak into his soul..looking through a window and seeing your soul..he was gazing out there and seeing the road and maybe wondering where it could have taken him if he traveled it..or he was seeing where Jack traveled and went and where he came back too
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You are SO right about Ennis looking through the window ... looking at the world as Jack might have seen it. Beautiful and touching moment.
There are so many moments in this film that just cause me to stagger a bit - and that is one of them.
The other thing about Jack's house (well, his parent's house) is the old whiteness of it. So natural and honest - sort of like Jack was himself. It's a wonderful statement of environment and how it affects us.
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Yes, I thought the 'whiteness' of the house was significant too - its absolute simplicity says something about the spirit of Jack- stripped of all ornament and social trappings, what's left is the strength and purity of his love. Strong against even the bitterness and homophobia of his father.
I think we see the world as it was to Jack, as Ennis does in this scene. He is looking at the long road south to Brokeback mountain and beyond to Texas. And hidden in the closet are the shirts, Jack's memory of Ennis, the defining experience of his short life.
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Yes, I thought the 'whiteness' of the house was significant too - its absolute simplicity says something about the spirit of Jack- stripped of all ornament and social trappings, what's left is the strength and purity of his love. Strong against even the bitterness and homophobia of his father.
I think we see the world as it was to Jack, as Ennis does in this scene. He is looking at the long road south to Brokeback mountain and beyond to Texas. And hidden in the closet are the shirts, Jack's memory of Ennis, the defining experience of his short life.
jazzsinger, why did you make me weep?
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Yes, I thought the 'whiteness' of the house was significant too - its absolute simplicity says something about the spirit of Jack- stripped of all ornament and social trappings, what's left is the strength and purity of his love. Strong against even the bitterness and homophobia of his father.
I think we see the world as it was to Jack, as Ennis does in this scene. He is looking at the long road south to Brokeback mountain and beyond to Texas. And hidden in the closet are the shirts, Jack's memory of Ennis, the defining experience of his short life.
I agree. And I think this scene has a great parallel with the final scene, when Ennis looks out the window of his own trailer and sees the road outside, now the only road *he'll* ever know, traveling it now alone without Jack. :(
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But the interesting thing is that the only road Jack knew was the one he followed - unlike Ennis, he admitted who and what he was.So I saw this as his looking down Jack's road and maybe beginning to feel, even subconsciously, that he ought to follow/have followed his own road too or that Jack's road should have been his. And that led to the change in him when his daughter told him she was getting married and his response was "Does he love you?" Seeing Jack's life from a different perspective made him see his own differently too.
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When I first saw that scene, when Ennis came into the room and looked around, the first thought I had was how depressing the room looked. so small and dark, with that lonely little bed and that bare table. maybe it wasn't unusual for that period of time, and it's just me being used to children's rooms the way they are now, with toys and bright colours, but that room seemed depressing to me and I thought that Ennis might feel sad too, knowing that Jack had to grow up in that little suffocating space. Jack was a free spirit, he belonged out there in the wilderness, in the mountains, in the open air, not in this narrow little space which reflected the narrow-mindness of his childhood environment. When Ennis opened the window, just before he sat down, I first thought that he simply wanted to let some fresh air come inside...
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Keren, that's pretty much what I thought. The room wasn't too big and it was probably pretty stuffy. Given how Ennis was already feeling I think he probably just wanted some air to help him breathe and help reduce his feeling of the walls closing in on him.
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Ennis in Jack's bedroom is another deep touching scene of BBM. In that situation Ennis is overhang by a sadness and regret, his soul can't resist like this...I've the impression that all his emotions invade every part of his body and he has a physical malaise: he needs to seat and to take a breath and he opens the window. In that occasion for another time we see the Ennis way to manifest his feelings: by body language.
Every time I see that scene I feel a fist in my throat...
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Yes, Ennis has spent most of his life repressing his feelings; now they're starting to force their way to the surface he clearly finds it both physically and psychologically difficult. These are his growing pains, growing into the world of feeling.
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Keren, that's pretty much what I thought. The room wasn't too big and it was probably pretty stuffy. Given how Ennis was already feeling I think he probably just wanted some air to help him breathe and help reduce his feeling of the walls closing in on him.
Also, I like to think that after Ennis opened the window to let in air...the breeze blew something in...making him turn his head and see the closet, drawing him to go in there...
I love everyone's comments about this most poignant of scenes.
kathy
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When I first saw that scene, when Ennis came into the room and looked around, the first thought I had was how depressing the room looked. so small and dark, with that lonely little bed and that bare table. maybe it wasn't unusual for that period of time, and it's just me being used to children's rooms the way they are now, with toys and bright colours, but that room seemed depressing to me and I thought that Ennis might feel sad too, knowing that Jack had to grow up in that little suffocating space. Jack was a free spirit, he belonged out there in the wilderness, in the mountains, in the open air, not in this narrow little space which reflected the narrow-mindness of his childhood environment. When Ennis opened the window, just before he sat down, I first thought that he simply wanted to let some fresh air come inside...
Good point about the room then and kids rooms now. I grew up in a room like Jack's. Not so austere but none the less very ordered and functional, not much room for a kid to express what he was feeling. I'm not sure which is right. In that room I dreamed and imagined and came of age. I didn't have Spiderman posters, Starwars either for that matter. I didn't have posters at all! What I had was my imagination and a sense that there was a world out there that I was going to find an conquor, much like Jack. I'm not sure how much conquoring I did but at least I had a goal.