Brokeback Mountain Forum @ ennisjack.com
The Movie & Story => Characters, Quotes & Scenes => Topic started by: daveya26 on Jan 15, 2006, 12:44 PM
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Hi
I was just watching this clip of the movie where Ennis and Jack are about to part for the first time after their summer together. Theyre talking about what theyre plans are, it seems obvious that they both want to see each other again but they cant express it. Jack then says 'I might be back', when he says this there is this small, almost pleading/hopeful look that flashes across his face that seems to say 'I WILL be back next summer, come and meet me here".
Wow, so many nuances that I didnt get with my first viewing...
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I agree, I didn't really pick up on that almost pleading tone in his voice till my second or third viewing. Also, I noticed that when they were in the motel room talking after their first meeting in 4 years Ennis asked Jack if the draft got him. I think this really shows that although Ennis seemed nocholant about their parting after Brokeback Mountain on the surface it affected him so bad that he remembered Jack's exact last words ("I'll probably be back up, if the draft doesn't get me" or something along those lines) and probably replayed them in his head constantly. *sigh* As with the "just sending a prayer up to heaven" scene there are quick flashes when we can see Ennis' true love and affection, but then in his fear of appearing vulnerable he quickly retreats behind his stone wall again.
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The good thing is that we can watch this clip over and over again if we want to!!! Well at least until the DVD comes out!
"Gonna Do This Again Next Summer?"...I wish he had!
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/brokeback_mountain/trailers.php
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I know - I love the internet! :-) I remember loving films as a kid and it being torture having to wait for them to come on again, maybe sometime on tv. Now we havd internet, videos, dvds etc :-)
Couldnt find out when the DVD release it, Im guessing early May for the UK. I hope it stays in the cinemas a while, give me a chance to see it a few times on the big screen.
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Oh yeah, Jack's face says it all. Something in they way his eyebrow arches into a questioning half circle says please, I love you, come back to me...
Jim
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Hi
I was just watching this clip of the movie where Ennis and Jack are about to part for the first time after their summer together. Theyre talking about what theyre plans are, it seems obvious that they both want to see each other again but they cant express it. Jack then says 'I might be back', when he says this there is this small, almost pleading/hopeful look that flashes across his face that seems to say 'I WILL be back next summer, come and meet me here".
Wow, so many nuances that I didnt get with my first viewing...
You are good after first viewing. I didn't pick it up after 4 viewings until I read your post. :-[ I was just immersed myself too much in EJ's love. But now you mention, I can actually run the scene in my head.
Jack did have the look of hoping to *work* with Ennis again.
Also, I noticed that when they were in the motel room talking after their first meeting in 4 years Ennis asked Jack if the draft got him. I think this really shows that although Ennis seemed nocholant about their parting after Brokeback Mountain on the surface it affected him so bad that he remembered Jack's exact last words ("I'll probably be back up, if the draft doesn't get me" or something along those lines) and probably replayed them in his head constantly. *sigh* As with the "just sending a prayer up to heaven" scene there are quick flashes when we can see Ennis' true love and affection, but then in his fear of appearing vulnerable he quickly retreats behind his stone wall again.
Great observation too, natalia. I wonder what I have been seeing in 4 viewings. :-X
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I don't know if anyone has mentioned this before, but Jack offers to loan Ennis money when they leaving Brokeback. Possibly he was hoping it would give him a reason to be in touch with Ennis. Have you ever had someone break up with you and you leave something significant at their place, so you have to go back to get it?
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I don't know if anyone has mentioned this before, but Jack offers to loan Ennis money when they leaving Brokeback. Possibly he was hoping it would give him a reason to be in touch with Ennis. Have you ever had someone break up with you and you leave something significant at their place, so you have to go back to get it?
Yes, a classic trick. In this case, I think the loan offer was another example of how Jack thought they had a 'relationship' now, the fact that summer was over was a non-issue, he figured they'd still be together, in one way or another. It wasn't until the fight and then the departure scene that it occurs to Jack that this is it, he might not see Ennis again.
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I think you're right, Cara. I hadn't thought of a change of perceptionon Jack's part.
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When the two are getting ready to part, they get Jack's truck started and are standing by the side of it and they are discussing being back the next year, and Jack said, ". . . . .Or I might be back. . . ." Right then, his left eyebrow makes a hopeful move. And it is his voice right then which is so wistful and hopeful. This Jake has the most wonderful inflexions in his voice. This ability of his is heard in most of his lines in this film.
Fafner
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To me this is one of the very most touching moments in the whole film--Jack clearly wants to say he'll miss Ennis or needs to see him again, but all he can do is look, and that little hopeful lilt creeps into his voice . . . Poor Ennis, unable to tell him how he was really feeling. If Jack had only seen him a few minutes later, in the alley, he would have known the truth.
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To me this is one of the very most touching moments in the whole film--Jack clearly wants to say he'll miss Ennis or needs to see him again, but all he can do is look, and that little hopeful lilt creeps into his voice . . . Poor Ennis, unable to tell him how he was really feeling. If Jack had only seen him a few minutes later, in the alley, he would have known the truth.
That scene was so tense. The pleading in Jacks eyes were heartwrenching.
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that is true it broke my girlfriend heart when she was watching the movie she was going to scream you idiot don let him go but she was unable by the tears since Ennis was not corageous to take Jack and escape with him and have their own sweet life.
his eyes broke my heart to the was beging Ennis to don't leave him and go with him but that never happened.
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When the two are getting ready to part, they get Jack's truck started and are standing by the side of it and they are discussing being back the next year, and Jack said, ". . . . .Or I might be back. . . ." Right then, his left eyebrow makes a hopeful move. And it is his voice right then which is so wistful and hopeful. This Jake has the most wonderful inflexions in his voice. This ability of his is heard in most of his lines in this film.
Fafner
Yes his voice and his eyes. I also noticed the way the look on his face and voice changes in this scene when he says "if the army don't get me". I know it's a possibility but I think it was more of a way to get to Ennis. I don't want to use guilt trip or a manipulation of sorts but I can't think of anything else to describe it. He can't say "don't go" so he says that.
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When the two are getting ready to part, they get Jack's truck started and are standing by the side of it and they are discussing being back the next year, and Jack said, ". . . . .Or I might be back. . . ." Right then, his left eyebrow makes a hopeful move. And it is his voice right then which is so wistful and hopeful. This Jake has the most wonderful inflexions in his voice. This ability of his is heard in most of his lines in this film.
Fafner
Yes his voice and his eyes. I also noticed the way the look on his face and voice changes in this scene when he says "if the army don't get me". I know it's a possibility but I think it was more of a way to get to Ennis. I don't want to use guilt trip or a manipulation of sorts but I can't think of anything else to describe it. He can't say "don't go" so he says that.
And I think it works in a way, too, since Ennis says to him when they meet again, "so the army didn't get you?" He remembers the exact words Jack said since he must have treasured them for those past four years.
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You are so right, shieldmaid, I didn't notice that :P
Ennis remembered exactly Jack's words. And he was trying to appear not interested at all in what Jack was saying. I don't find it strange that he collapsed the way he did a few minutes later in the alley. So much love and desire swallowed to go on with his plans of marrying Alma :'( :'( :'( :'(
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When the two are getting ready to part, they get Jack's truck started and are standing by the side of it and they are discussing being back the next year, and Jack said, ". . . . .Or I might be back. . . ." Right then, his left eyebrow makes a hopeful move. And it is his voice right then which is so wistful and hopeful. This Jake has the most wonderful inflexions in his voice. This ability of his is heard in most of his lines in this film.
Fafner
Yes his voice and his eyes. I also noticed the way the look on his face and voice changes in this scene when he says "if the army don't get me". I know it's a possibility but I think it was more of a way to get to Ennis. I don't want to use guilt trip or a manipulation of sorts but I can't think of anything else to describe it. He can't say "don't go" so he says that.
And I think it works in a way, too, since Ennis says to him when they meet again, "so the army didn't get you?" He remembers the exact words Jack said since he must have treasured them for those past four years.
Yes, I agree, I think he did treasure those words, and kept them close and probably spent the next 4 years wondering if the army had got Jack. It could have been a guilt thing from Jack to Ennis, hoping to get a reaction from Ennis, but I think it was just something to say. What Jack WANTS to say, is stuck somewhere in his heart, but the way Ennis is doesn't make it easy for Jack to tell him. But we know that Ennis DOES care about what Jack saying......god, the way Ennis talks to Jack in this scene is enough to make me cry.......he's trying to be all nonchalant, when you can just tell by his body language he is anything but. When Jack says ".....if the army don't get me", Ennis doesn't know what else to say and lingers for a moment before saying "well, see you around I guess".....because what else can he say? He's not got the words for how he feels inside. And then Jack says ".....right" and you hear the total disheartened sound in his voice and he has to put his head down. But then Ennis takes forever to actually leave, becuase he doesn't want to leave.
God, I'm making myself sad here. :'(
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Yes, I agree, I think he did treasure those words, and kept them close and probably spent the next 4 years wondering if the army had got Jack. It could have been a guilt thing from Jack to Ennis, hoping to get a reaction from Ennis, but I think it was just something to say. What Jack WANTS to say, is stuck somewhere in his heart, but the way Ennis is doesn't make it easy for Jack to tell him. But we know that Ennis DOES care about what Jack saying......god, the way Ennis talks to Jack in this scene is enough to make me cry.......he's trying to be all nonchalant, when you can just tell by his body language he is anything but. When Jack says ".....if the army don't get me", Ennis doesn't know what else to say and lingers for a moment before saying "well, see you around I guess".....because what else can he say? He's not got the words for how he feels inside. And then Jack says ".....right" and you hear the total disheartened sound in his voice and he has to put his head down. But then Ennis takes forever to actually leave, becuase he doesn't want to leave.
God, I'm making myself sad here. :'(
Aye, there's all that....and then there's the way Jack looks in his car mirror and watches Ennis walking along the road....
Why didn't he just stop the truck and get out and grab Ennis there and then - would've cut the film short but it sure would have made all of us a lot happier, eh? ;)
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Why didn't he just stop the truck and get out and grab Ennis there and then - would've cut the film short but it sure would have made all of us a lot happier, eh? ;)
Courtesy of Tpe, from a G. J. Whyte-Melville's poem
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.filmhai.de%2Fkino%2Fkinoplakat%2Fbilder_0001%2Fbrokeback_mountain%2Fgallery1%2Fbrokeback_mountain_014.jpg&hash=ad58de41768ff9b75499c384b3f18a08af85b6d9)
What are we waiting for? Oh, my heart!
Kiss me straight on the brows! and part again!
Again! my heart! my heart! What are we waiting for, you and I?
A pleading look, a stifled cry.
Goodbye, forever! Goodbye, forever!
Goodbye! Goodbye! Goodbye!
That's exactly what I think EVERYTIME during that scene "What are YOU waiting for?"
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Why didn't he just stop the truck and get out and grab Ennis there and then - would've cut the film short but it sure would have made all of us a lot happier, eh? ;)
Courtesy of Tpe, from a G. J. Whyte-Melville's poem
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.filmhai.de%2Fkino%2Fkinoplakat%2Fbilder_0001%2Fbrokeback_mountain%2Fgallery1%2Fbrokeback_mountain_014.jpg&hash=ad58de41768ff9b75499c384b3f18a08af85b6d9)
What are we waiting for? Oh, my heart!
Kiss me straight on the brows! and part again!
Again! my heart! my heart! What are we waiting for, you and I?
A pleading look, a stifled cry.
Goodbye, forever! Goodbye, forever!
Goodbye! Goodbye! Goodbye!
That's exactly what I think EVERYTIME during that scene "What are YOU waiting for?"
Jeez Frances, don't do this to me! I'm at work, trying to look busy! Then I read this poem and I'm a mess now. :'( :'( :'(
"A pleading look, a stifled cry".........a pleading look from Jack, a stifled cry from Ennis........WHY didn't Ennis just grab Jack, touch his face and tell him he loved him?
Cos that would have been the end of film, that's why!
*Christie tries to compose herself, but fails*
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To me they both look even younger and more vulnerable in this scene, too: Ennis must be looking at the bruise on Jack's face, thinking, "I did that! I hit the face of the man I love!" Jack looks hurt figuratively and literally here, bruised by love and life. In the short story, they hit each other on the shoulder before leaving, but they don't get even that brief interaction here. :( :(
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As this scene ended i was left wanting as much as Jack and Ennis. Its such a mesmerising, skillfully acted scene. I love Jack's pleading expressions - you really can't help but feel his achings and yearnings with him, but i also think Heath's performance here is breathtaking - so subtle and understated. The way his eyes flicker around and then hold Jack's for just a moment before they part - its wonderful. And of course with the gutwrenching alleyway scene following the understated way Ennis says goodbye to Jack makes it all the more poignant. :'( :'( :'( It makes me sad :'( :'( :'(
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I"just sending a prayer up to heaven" scene there are quick flashes when we can see Ennis' true love and affection, but then in his fear of appearing vulnerable he quickly retreats behind his stone wall again.
Yes, Ennis' love and affection for Jack usually takes the form of humor...teasing Jack about his harmonica playing. Except for the reunion scene, Jack seems to be the more affectionate one.
Donna
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As this scene ended i was left wanting as much as Jack and Ennis. Its such a mesmerising, skillfully acted scene. I love Jack's pleading expressions - you really can't help but feel his achings and yearnings with him, but i also think Heath's performance here is breathtaking - so subtle and understated. The way his eyes flicker around and then hold Jack's for just a moment before they part - its wonderful. And of course with the gutwrenching alleyway scene following the understated way Ennis says goodbye to Jack makes it all the more poignant. :'( :'( :'( It makes me sad :'( :'( :'(
Oh Aimi, I know how you feel. No words seem to do their acting justice, do they? It's all the subtle and understated stuff that breaks your heart.....all them things that Ennis isn't saying (CAN'T say), all them things that Jack is wishing Ennis would say......the boy is practically giving Ennis an open invitation to meet him back on brokeback the following summer! But for Ennis, reality has moved back in, and he's moved his love for Jack out.
Sometimes less is so much more. :'( :'(
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I've always loved the way Jack says the "I might be back". If someone in that situation says that to me and with that voice and those lips :P :P, I'd just forget all the Almas and the rest of the world, and would go to Brokeback again to spend the rest of my life with him :'( :'( :'(
But if Ennis had been as impulsive as I am, this movie would have been a short movie and we all would have complained :-\
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Hi
I was just watching this clip of the movie where Ennis and Jack are about to part for the first time after their summer together. Theyre talking about what theyre plans are, it seems obvious that they both want to see each other again but they cant express it. Jack then says 'I might be back', when he says this there is this small, almost pleading/hopeful look that flashes across his face that seems to say 'I WILL be back next summer, come and meet me here".
Wow, so many nuances that I didnt get with my first viewing...
Absolutely...I didn't get it the first time or two...but Jake's facial expression if excruciating...he SO wants to see Ennis next summer...and is asking for just that...although Ennis doesn't (or doesn't want to) get it.
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Hi
I was just watching this clip of the movie where Ennis and Jack are about to part for the first time after their summer together. Theyre talking about what theyre plans are, it seems obvious that they both want to see each other again but they cant express it. Jack then says 'I might be back', when he says this there is this small, almost pleading/hopeful look that flashes across his face that seems to say 'I WILL be back next summer, come and meet me here".
Wow, so many nuances that I didnt get with my first viewing...
Absolutely...I didn't get it the first time or two...but Jake's facial expression if excruciating...he SO wants to see Ennis next summer...and is asking for just that...although Ennis doesn't (or doesn't want to) get it.
I had noted that in previous viewings, but this last time kept re-playing that brief look he gives Ennis as if to say "Please Ennis, just give me some hope we'll see each other again!". Absolutely heartbreaking stuff, and very subtle. Lord, what that Jake can do with his facial expressions!
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I read somewhere that Jake Gyllenhaal described Ennis and Jack's relationship about being what they don't say to each other. Most of the moments where they are standing, being departed by the other, what they don't say to each other is more significant that the words they say.
This scene is maybe the best example of it.
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I read somewhere that Jake Gyllenhaal described Ennis and Jack's relationship about being what they don't say to each other. Most of the moments where they are standing, being departed by the other, what they don't say to each other is more significant that the words they say.
This scene is maybe the best example of it.
I agree. I believe this is the scene exerpted when Gyllenhaal appeared on Leno. If I remember correctly, his comments there about this scene was something to this effect...
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I remember hearing Jake say that and wondering what he meant. Does he mean the things they don't say that they should have said - like "I want to be with you" or "I love you"? Or does he mean the things that they don't say with words but instead with looks and expressions?
I think there's a general feeling that both Ennis and Jack were very good at reading each others faces and eyes - knowing how the other was feeling with a word being spoken. I think Ennis knows Jack feels the same way he does when they part the first time - but his upbringing and childhood experiences don't allow him to do anything then, or indeed later. In a similar way, I think Jack reads between the lines when Ennis tells him it ain't gonna be that way - and that's the reason he gently strokes Ennis's face at the end of that scene, because he knows how Ennis really feels.
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I think there's a general feeling that both Ennis and Jack were very good at reading each others faces and eyes - knowing how the other was feeling with a word being spoken. I think Ennis knows Jack feels the same way he does when they part the first time - but his upbringing and childhood experiences don't allow him to do anything then, or indeed later. In a similar way, I think Jack reads between the lines when Ennis tells him it ain't gonna be that way - and that's the reason he gently strokes Ennis's face at the end of that scene, because he knows how Ennis really feels.
very nicely stated..I do agree that they could read each other faces and eyes..their facial expressions said what they couldn't say in words..I do agree that Ennis childhood fears would prevent him from saying what he truly feels. Jack being able to understand and know that Ennis does really care about him
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I think Jack desperately wants to believe that he will see Ennis again. But, Ennis leaves with that flippant "see you around." The way Jack looks in his side mirror at Ennis breaks my heart. You can see the hurt, longing and disappointment in Jack's face. Little does Jack know Ennis breaks down in that alley,his own heart breaking from not being able to be with Jack. If only Jack could have seen that . . . :'(
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I think Jack desperately wants to believe that he will see Ennis again. But, Ennis leaves with that flippant "see you around." The way Jack looks in his side mirror at Ennis breaks my heart. You can see the hurt, longing and disappointment in Jack's face. Little does Jack know Ennis breaks down in that alley,his own heart breaking from not being able to be with Jack. If only Jack could have seen that . . . :'(
...and if only Ennis could have seen it coming...
:\'( :\'( :\'(
Jim
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Being devil's advocate here, but - if things aren't said, then at least the door is left open. Ennis doesn't say, "Well, that's it," or the equivalent. He doesn't have the words to say, or even the ability to analyze internally, what he's feeling, even if he could bring himself to, and I don't know at this point whether Jack does either. In a sense they're both surprised by love, like people swept under by an enormous wave. Remember Bassanio in "Merchant of Venice"? When Portian says she is his he replies,
Madam, you have bereft me of all words;
Only my blood speaks to you in my veins,
and I think this often happens betweeen the two of them.
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Being devil's advocate here, but - if things aren't said, then at least the door is left open. Ennis doesn't say, "Well, that's it," or the equivalent. He doesn't have the words to say, or even the ability to analyze internally, what he's feeling, even if he could bring himself to, and I don't know at this point whether Jack does either. In a sense they're both surprised by love, like people swept under by an enormous wave. Remember Bassanio in "Merchant of Venice"? When Portian says she is his he replies,
Madam, you have bereft me of all words;
Only my blood speaks to you in my veins,
and I think this often happens betweeen the two of them.
That's a gorgeous way of putting it. If we take this scene in relation to earlier scenes, too, Jack obviously knows that Ennis is distraught as well--he sits alone on the mountain just before they come back down, and of course after they punch each other he can see how upset Ennis truly is.
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"I might be back"
From the very first time I saw BBM I simply loved that moment, the way Jack says that, the way he looks at Ennis, it's like he's throwing the last signal to make Ennis react and say what he really wants to hear: "I'll be back too".
But no... :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'(
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Being devil's advocate here, but - if things aren't said, then at least the door is left open. Ennis doesn't say, "Well, that's it," or the equivalent. He doesn't have the words to say, or even the ability to analyze internally, what he's feeling, even if he could bring himself to, and I don't know at this point whether Jack does either. In a sense they're both surprised by love, like people swept under by an enormous wave. Remember Bassanio in "Merchant of Venice"? When Portian says she is his he replies,
Madam, you have bereft me of all words;
Only my blood speaks to you in my veins,
and I think this often happens betweeen the two of them.
No, Ennis doesnt say "thats it" but to me, the fact that he says "me and Alma'll be getting married in November" when earlier in the film he'd given Jack a hint that they could be together again the following summer (during the sheep mix up, when Ennis says to Jack "what if we need to work for him again?), that to me is Ennis shutting down, emotionally. He's had to deal with the trauma of leaving the mountain earlier than he'd wanted, he's just fought with Jack, he's obviously shutting down because he cannot handle the feelings that are stirring inside him. He doesnt have the words, the expressions, the ability to tell Jack how he feels, and he feels its wrong anyway, so he goes into reality mode, and thats the only thing Ennis can handle.
Of course, we know how Ennis feels, what he really wants to say to Jack, but Jack is still left heartbroken and has to leave without anything to hold on to. When Ennis says "see you around", and Jack puts his head down, it breaks my heart. Because not only is Jack devastated, he's probably feeling a little humiiated too, because its almost as though Ennis is denying anything happened between them with this rejection.
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I remember hearing Jake say that and wondering what he meant. Does he mean the things they don't say that they should have said - like "I want to be with you" or "I love you"? Or does he mean the things that they don't say with words but instead with looks and expressions?
Yes I saw that interview and I took it that Jake was referring to both meanings. Jay Leno had just shown a clip from the film, and Leno had commented on the scene (it was the some sweet life scene) and said something about there being lots of undercurrents of what was going on between Ennis and Jack, and thats when Jake said that line quoted earlier. So I actually think he meant it in both ways, and they are both as important as the other.
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I remember hearing Jake say that and wondering what he meant. Does he mean the things they don't say that they should have said - like "I want to be with you" or "I love you"? Or does he mean the things that they don't say with words but instead with looks and expressions?
Yes I saw that interview and I took it that Jake was referring to both meanings. Jay Leno had just shown a clip from the film, and Leno had commented on the scene (it was the some sweet life scene) and said something about there being lots of undercurrents of what was going on between Ennis and Jack, and thats when Jake said that line quoted earlier. So I actually think he meant it in both ways, and they are both as important as the other.
Yeah, I think you could be right. Thing is, for me the looks and expressions say pretty much all of the things that they didn't say in words including "I love you" - especially in the motel and the "just like this always" scenes.
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Being devil's advocate here, but - if things aren't said, then at least the door is left open. Ennis doesn't say, "Well, that's it," or the equivalent. He doesn't have the words to say, or even the ability to analyze internally, what he's feeling, even if he could bring himself to, and I don't know at this point whether Jack does either. In a sense they're both surprised by love, like people swept under by an enormous wave. Remember Bassanio in "Merchant of Venice"? When Portian says she is his he replies,
Madam, you have bereft me of all words;
Only my blood speaks to you in my veins,
and I think this often happens betweeen the two of them.
No, Ennis doesnt say "thats it" but to me, the fact that he says "me and Alma'll be getting married in November" when earlier in the film he'd given Jack a hint that they could be together again the following summer (during the sheep mix up, when Ennis says to Jack "what if we need to work for him again?), that to me is Ennis shutting down, emotionally. He's had to deal with the trauma of leaving the mountain earlier than he'd wanted, he's just fought with Jack, he's obviously shutting down because he cannot handle the feelings that are stirring inside him. He doesnt have the words, the expressions, the ability to tell Jack how he feels, and he feels its wrong anyway, so he goes into reality mode, and thats the only thing Ennis can handle.
Of course, we know how Ennis feels, what he really wants to say to Jack, but Jack is still left heartbroken and has to leave without anything to hold on to. When Ennis says "see you around", and Jack puts his head down, it breaks my heart. Because not only is Jack devastated, he's probably feeling a little humiiated too, because its almost as though Ennis is denying anything happened between them with this rejection.
Well put. :\'(
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All very well put! Oh the look on Jack's face when he says that...
They did really manage to physically inhabit their characters, didn't they? Heath disappears into Ennis and Jake does things with his face and voice that make him indistinguishable from Jack.
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All very well put! Oh the look on Jack's face when he says that...
They did really manage to physically inhabit their characters, didn't they? Heath disappears into Ennis and Jake does things with his face and voice that make him indistinguishable from Jack.
I know....its the way he puts his head down for a second, after Ennis says "see you around" that gets me every time. And then Ennis just stands there, not wanting to go, but knowing he should go, and its heartbreaking to see him so confused and hesitant. I think they both did a truly breathtaking job of conveying so much in this scene, with very few words.
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I like the "might be back" subjunctive - he knows very well he will be but doesn't wnat to give too much away. And I like the way Ennis just stands there, desperately trying to think how to behave in a situation he has no precedent for - and Ennis finds it hard enough to fit in with conventional interactions - look at the way he sidles over towards the wall in Aguirre's office.
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I think they both did a truly breathtaking job of conveying so much in this scene, with very few words.
Indeed, very beautifully done. When one tries to look away; when the other swallows his disappointment. When one tries to be stoic; when the other tries to hold on. When one says 'I guess I'll see you arround'; when the other responds 'OK'. Indeed, very beautifully done.
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I think they both did a truly breathtaking job of conveying so much in this scene, with very few words.
Indeed, very beautifully done. When one tries to look away; when the other swallows his disappointment. When one tries to be stoic; when the other tries to hold on. When one says 'I guess I'll see you arround'; when the other responds 'OK'. Indeed, very beautifully done.
Oh tpe, sometimes reading you is like listening to music. :)
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Thank you FlwrChild.
BBM is music to us here.
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I think Jack desperately wants to believe that he will see Ennis again. But, Ennis leaves with that flippant "see you around." The way Jack looks in his side mirror at Ennis breaks my heart. You can see the hurt, longing and disappointment in Jack's face. Little does Jack know Ennis breaks down in that alley,his own heart breaking from not being able to be with Jack. If only Jack could have seen that . . . :'(
I must point out,that in the opening scene Jack also glances at Ennis on his side mirror,trying to catch his eye ..maybe?
It's ,parallels IMO, to the second scene,when he drives away.
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I think Jack desperately wants to believe that he will see Ennis again. But, Ennis leaves with that flippant "see you around." The way Jack looks in his side mirror at Ennis breaks my heart. You can see the hurt, longing and disappointment in Jack's face. Little does Jack know Ennis breaks down in that alley,his own heart breaking from not being able to be with Jack. If only Jack could have seen that . . . :'(
I must point out,that in the opening scene Jack also glances at Ennis on his side mirror,trying to catch his eye ..maybe?
It's ,parallels IMO, to the second scene,when he drives away.
Yes, I think there was an old post that expressed the same opinion: bookends at the start and end of their stay in BBM. It is most likely intentional. And the use of the mirror -- so symbolic and meaningful -- is very beautifully done.
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the story would be different if...
- ennis hasn't commited to marry alma
- ennis has no fear of dying or his male lover dying from being beaten like the old man
- ennis doesn't try to get back on the normal-life track
- ennis just say i'll be back in the next summer
- ennis lives in this time
ennis would say i'll be back for sure. :c)
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That I might be back scene is wonderful- and how Jack/Jake said it and that look of hope ,anticipation,and intonation in his voice was so touching- To me it meant that Jack didnt want to lose what started on Brokeback and was just hoping/pleading for Ennis to come back the next year in a non= threatening, non chalant way - The dry heaves that Ennis had in the alley were the physical way his emotions answered that question/statement-Knowing in his heart that he would probably never see the love of his life again. I am sure as Jack drove away he probably had the same dry heaves-Isnt that why they call it "love sickness"? How many of us have dry heaved over someone -that would make an interesting new thread -
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TheBoyFromNoWhere and carlton5, thank for the insights. Everything seemed to have conspired against them -- it is most evident in this particular scene when it is plain what both of them feel, and yet...and yet... Fate.
And I do love the intonation of Jack's voice here. It is indeed so touching. He is trying to bridge the widening gap as they prepare to leave. It is like Jack throwing himself into the emotional divide, all for love.
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Tragedy is the interweaving of character and fate, or luck, or kismet - that's why this is an authentic tragedy. There are so many points at which it would take only one little action or event or word to change the whole course of events - this is one of those moments - but it never happens, and the juggernaut rolls on unimpeded.
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Ang L uses this alot in this fine film. Implied words told through expressions and gestures. ie: SNIT where there are no words spoken at all but ew all get it . It's also used in this scene. When Ennis says " I guess I'll see ya around then" I wanted to sream at the screen. How can you possibly walk away from these deeply affecting experiences with this guy? And poor Jack has to lower his head to hide his tears. Saying that he'd be back was clue....Ennis...Hello!?I suppose at the time Ennis felt he had to go marry Alma , but he could have saved everyone alot of pain by just being true to his feelings towards Jack. but then that would'nt be Ennis right? And I aint foolin.
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It's typical of Jack that he wants to leave things open - "I might be back" means "I will be back if you're going to be there".
But Ennis closes things down - he's said he's getting married and will look for work on a ranch, so "See you around" is a meaningless addition. It's almost as if he's trying to tell Jack the summer and their relationship are over and hoping Jack will accept that and disappear. Then a few minutes later, but too late, he realises there's something wrong, but ( so he says in the motel scene) it takes him a year to work out what.
Ennis loves saying no; Jack looks for possibilities, alternatives, ways round things.
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It's typical of Jack that he wants to leave things open - "I might be back" means "I will be back if you're going to be there".
But Ennis closes things down - he's said he's getting married and will look for work on a ranch, so "See you around" is a meaningless addition. It's almost as if he's trying to tell Jack the summer and their relationship are over and hoping Jack will accept that and disappear. Then a few minutes later, but too late, he realises there's something wrong, but ( so he says in the motel scene) it takes him a year to work out what.
Ennis loves saying no; Jack looks for possibilities, alternatives, ways round things.
I'm not sure that's the case, actually. I think Ennis actually hopes he'll see Jack again because apart from everything else that's happened between them during the summer, Jack has become the best (only?) friend Ennis has ever had. He doesn't want to lose that, even if he's convinced that he has to lose the other side of their relationship.
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It's typical of Jack that he wants to leave things open - "I might be back" means "I will be back if you're going to be there".
But Ennis closes things down - he's said he's getting married and will look for work on a ranch, so "See you around" is a meaningless addition. It's almost as if he's trying to tell Jack the summer and their relationship are over and hoping Jack will accept that and disappear. Then a few minutes later, but too late, he realises there's something wrong, but ( so he says in the motel scene) it takes him a year to work out what.
Ennis loves saying no; Jack looks for possibilities, alternatives, ways round things.
I'm not sure that's the case, actually. I think Ennis actually hopes he'll see Jack again because apart from everything else that's happened between them during the summer, Jack has become the best (only?) friend Ennis has ever had. He doesn't want to lose that, even if he's convinced that he has to lose the other side of their relationship.
I understand what you are saying Lindsey. Ennis hopes to see Jack again, no doubt about that in his heart, but his head is telling him that the summer is over and he's going back to marry Alma, back to reality. Jack is part of the magic of Brokeback, and I think he just decides to separate the two, because otherwise he would have to deal with his feelings for Jack on a deeper level, something Ennis found hard to do on Brokeback, and so would find nigh on impossible to do in reality. Saying "see you around" doesnt mean much, and Jack knows that. What Ennis is really saying is "I dont know what else to do"........and I think Jack knows that too.
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umn... could be both ways.
but for me, i think if i were ennis, i would say something like what ennis said. that is because i might feel that what i did on BbM was not right. i shouldn't do that. and i would try to get my normal life back by doing my promise by getting married and tried to forget everything i felt guilty about. it was such a confusing feeling. that could made me collapsed and punched the wall too. time would cure my feeling until jack was back to my life. the reunion was the real turning point after 'i might be back' in my opinion.
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Ennis's " deep" experiences with Jack on Brokeback affected Ennis like nothing ever did before. IMO there's no way he could just forget them or sweep them under the rug.He fell in love with Jack. deeply in love.But he just did'nt quite understand the feelings at the time. When he collapsed in the alley He was so frustrated by this . All he knew was that he'd hurt Jack and he was driving away from him with nothing but a " see ya around" to remember the whole thing by. I think he wishes he could have said more but just did'nt know how. The feeling I get is that Ennis uses marrying Alma as a crutch and wall to hide behind still after SNIT. But it did take a year according to the story to realize that this was'nt just an after thought Jack's sad face probably haunted Ennis for a long time.
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I agree with CW and TBFN - Ennis is almost wishing that the whole thing would go away - it's too difficult to deal with back down away from Brokeback, a place he manages to return with Jack but away from which he only once allows the relationship to exist. Brokeback and Jack are part of one thing for him, one experience, one relationship, but one that doesn't translate into his normal world.
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I'm sure he did wish it would go away but I feel that he knows it won't.( punching the wall in frusration) But deep inside he knows that what he feels is real. Those feelings were pushed aside for four years in an ttempt to live " normal" life with Alma. He buried them, which is not hard for Ennis to do. Picture the scene. Ennis comes home from work. a day just like any other day until Alma mentions the postcard from Jack . All of a sudden his world changes . There is excitement, anticipation and wanting. Just like on Brokeback. All those same feelings, long buried come back full to the surface again. And oh my , does he act on them.
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I believe that Ennis was conflicted at this point. He knew he was in love with Jack and he wanted so desperately for this to go away. IN a sense, he tried to put on a brave face and put an end to the affair. It nearly killed him, and he hated himself for both allowing himself to fall in love and instigating what he though was its demise.
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I agree
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If he thought about it, he might hear Jack saying "I'might be back" or realise later the implcations of that, and know that there could have been a continuation, but by then he'd be too deep in work/wife/baby due, etc.
I think the ponding on the wall is just an expression of extreme frustration and the inability to understand, far less deal with, what he's feeling at that point.
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well its good that jack does come back
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I believe that Ennis was conflicted at this point. He knew he was in love with Jack and he wanted so desperately for this to go away. IN a sense, he tried to put on a brave face and put an end to the affair. It nearly killed him, and he hated himself for both allowing himself to fall in love and instigating what he though was its demise.
Poor Ennis . . . He's such a beautiful and yet tortured soul :\'( :\'( :\'(
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~) EnniS is veryyyyyyyyyy sadddddddddd and seems like sick when jack is going away from him...for the first time! :d)
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From conflict and struggle arises very beautiful things.
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I think Jack was afraid of direct rejection with his "I might be back" comment to Ennis. He avoided broaching the subject of being together for fear of this rejection or putting Ennis on the spot.
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I think Jack was afraid of direct rejection with his "I might be back" comment to Ennis. He avoided broaching the subject of being together for fear of this rejection or putting Ennis on the spot.
So true. He was constantly giving hints, letting out feelers. I really felt for him as the scene progressed. Jack was visibly crushed. Ennis must have been dying inside...
Miscommunication. They both knew, and did not.
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This is so true about Jack DB. He was so afraid of the rejection. Did you notice that towards the end when they just stood staring at each other? I think Jack held out hope until Ennis devastated him with the finality of that "see you around then" and walked off. Only then did Jack let him go and get in his truck and drive off too. I felt so sad for both of them.Especially Jack.
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This scene stuck with me for awhile because they both knew at the time that Ennis was making a mistake by leaving to marry Alma. Jack KNEW then that he'd be back. It was an opportunity to see Ennis again and reconnect with him. And he did come back and asked about him true to his word. Unfortunately he only got Agurre's crap but no Ennis. ::) :(
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This scene stuck with me for awhile because they both knew at the time that Ennis was making a mistake by leaving to marry Alma. Jack KNEW then that he'd be back. It was an opportunity to see Ennis again and reconnect with him. And he did come back and asked about him true to his word. Unfortunately he only got Agurre's crap but no Ennis. ::) :(
The next summer showed how adamant Jack was in meeting up again with Ennis. Ennis told him after coming down from BBM in 63 that he would not be coming back. And yet, he did not give up hope that Ennis would contrive to see him again. He must have been crushed when he didn't get to see Ennis the next summer. No wonder he decided to move on to Texas.
I think part of the reason why he left Wyoming was to forget Ennis. It took 4 years, a marriage, and a kid for him to realize that this was impossible.
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And what a waste of precious time they could've spent together! Little did jack know that Ennis was still wanting him too as he suffered through Aguirre's humiliation. As evidence of this? THE REUNION SCENE! Ennis probably would have been crazy to see him again that next summer. If only Jack had found Ennis then, maybe he would have never even met Lureen. Would have been nice if Ennis had the courage to come to Texas, see him "ride" then have it be Ennis picking up Jack's hat and returning it to him. What a nice suprise this would have been for Jack!!.....But I'm only dreamin. Too bad.
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Yes, I cannot help wondering that if Ennis had been more open about the possibility of meeting again, then things would have been different. It had been mentioned earlier that this was the deciding moment for both of them. That delay proved their inevitable undoing. Things could not be changed easily after this, and I cannot escape the thought that both of them must have contemplated the missed opportunity many a time. Could things ended up differently had Jack inisisted that Ennis ride with him? It is hard not to think of the possibilities. Their love may have overthrown all obstacles.
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Perhaps. But they were very young and facing some pretty daunting obstacles. The tragic irony may be that they needed those four years to recognize and appreciate what they had, while at the same time (as you pointed out tpe) those four years were their undoing.
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Perhaps. But they were very young and facing some pretty daunting obstacles. The tragic irony may be that they needed those four years to recognize and appreciate what they had, while at the same time (as you pointed out tpe) those four years were their undoing.
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I think that's the crux of it. After that first summer they both knew they'd found something special but it wasn't until they'd been apart and had experienced other relationships that they really realised how special it was. Without those four years apart, the first little argument between them may well have been enough to destroy their relationship...it was only through knowing that nothing else was this good that they were able to handle the pain of only being together a few weeks a year.
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Right on FlwrChild and NoReins.
This scene (the parting) is really the center piece of the film, starting with “says, bring ‘em down”, Ennis’s deep frustration at the summer being cut short and Jack's unintentional but cool reaction to this, “lend you some cash”, Ennis’s lonesome pouting, and the ensuing play/fight where Ennis is clearly pissed-off that Jack isn’t more upset about the parting. Of course 20 yrs later we learn that Jack secretly was devastated enough at this point to steal Ennis’s shirt, he just was too inexperienced to know how to show it (OT - Jack couldn’t do a lot of things, shoot, ride, or use a can opener!). By the time they get to Jack's truck I think these two 19 y.o. boys are emotionally in way over their heads and can’t figure out what else to do. They've been told their whole life that they can’t do the one thing they want to do most at that moment. They both look like deer in the headlights, surprised, stunned, and at a complete loss for action. Only when they are shortly by themselves do they allow their emotional turmoil to express itself. The thoroughness of Heath and Jake and the pure reality in the way they performed this scene in concert is absolutely remarkable.
jackster
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I also echo what FlwrChild and NoReins had said. They NEEDED those 4 years to fully realize what they had. And it is indeed ironic that the 4-year period that invariably pulled them together was also the same thing that inevitably pulled them apart. The 4-year separation was a double-edged sword.
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It's so typical of Jack that he's the one to offer possibilities - just as he does all the way through. He's always looking ahead, thinking things may change, see the world as offering alternatives, whereas Ennis sees life as lacking options, set irrevocably on a specific course, eg he's said he's going to marry Alma so it never crosses his mind not to, or even to put it off. Ennis never sees himself as in control of his own destiny, whereas Jack wants to go out and force the world into being what he wants it to be.
And eventually he ends up just as he might have expected; it's Jack who's destroyed by forces bigger than he can control, because just like love hatred is also a force of nature.
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Though I love the character of Ennis, this scene never fails to bring a fair amount of anger to the surface in me. Marrying Alma after the experience of Brokeback with Jack was unfair to everyone involveld. I understand that he felt he had to do what he had to do but my God what was he thinking after such a life changing experience? Here was Jack, practically pleading with him to go with what he knew was Ennis's true feelings and what does he do? walks away from the only real happiness he has ever known. He could have let Alma down easy and saved her, Jack, and himself from years of pain and hurt. After all , he had'nt married her YET. He was under to obligation to run off and get married knowing what he knew at the time. Alot of things may have been different if he had'nt ran off and made this foolish mistake, but I guess thats just Ennis....... Earth to Ennis, wake up, your reality is staring you right in the face.....and it has very sad eyes. Pllleeeaaassseee don't get me started!. Damn. :X My heart broke for Jack.
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It is so tragic that Ennis could not be coaxed into acknowledging his desire to be with Jack. I was also quite angry at him in this scene until I saw the consequences of this denial in the alley. He was so hopelessly conflicted. Perhaps he wanted it more than Jack at that moment.
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Yes, he was conflicted, but one thing was for sure. He knew that his feelings for Alma paled in comparison with thos he had for Jack. Shoul'nt have married her.....but he did/
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Yes, he was conflicted, but one thing was for sure. He knew that his feelings for Alma paled in comparison with thos he had for Jack. Shoul'nt have married her.....but he did/
Ennis was too enamored by duty, or what he thought was his duty...
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I watched the movie again last night, sort of as an anniversary remembrance, and was struck once again by Jack's words. Just one or two additional words may have changed everything. As it was, he cut Ennis loose in that scene and Ennis was too caught up in his "responsibility" to marry Alma, that he agreed. They both knew this would be over. The chances of them running into one another were very slim. Still, Ennis wouldn't give Jack any hope of another summer on BBM. (In return, of course, he made himself sick, literally, after a few minutes thought that Jack was really out of his life for good -- next scene.)
Everytime I see this scene, I want to jump in their conversation and say,"Shut up. Make a date and set a place to get together soon. Don't let each other go." But then there wouldn't have been a story or a movie.
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Jack probably didn't even begin to guess how much Ennis wanted things to continue at that point.
Up on the mountain, right before bringing the sheep down, Jack probably guessed that the Ennis was in turmoil. But Ennis didn't even want to ackknowledge anything, and reacted with violence. Little did Jack know... Little did he know...
The depth of Ennis's denial is only matched by his painful vulnerability. He was like a trapped animal.
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I think the turmoil Ennis was going through up on the mountain wasn't just because he and Jack would be separated. I think it meant a lot more than just Jack and their physical relationship. I think this was the first time Ennis felt he was "at home". In the mountains, alone with Jack, he was comfortable. He could cut loose, smile, laugh, talk more than he ever did before. He was grieving the loss of the whole package -- home. I think that's why he agreed to go with Jack to the mountains when they had their trysts. There he did not feel no watched, so vulnerable.
When he and Jack had their final words, he was lost at how to keep this feeling alive. He had such minimal social skills. He actually could not express his feelings -- even to Jack. (Note all the other times in the movie when you wanted so badly to hear Ennis respond in some way to Jack, but he just can't.)
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It is so tragic that Ennis could not be coaxed into acknowledging his desire to be with Jack. I was also quite angry at him in this scene until I saw the consequences of this denial in the alley. He was so hopelessly conflicted. Perhaps he wanted it more than Jack at that moment.
I look at this scene and just really, really wish that Jack had turned the truck around and picked Ennis up.
Maybe things would have ended up differently . . . Perhaps :\'( :\'( :\'(
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When they leave the mountain for the first time, the way Ennis reacts is somewhat analagous to the way one feels at the end of a holiday. For him the mountain has been a place away from real life, and the few months there a time out of time - it's the only part of his life that has ever presented him with any possibility of a different, richer life, but he's too afraid of the prospect to grasp it. The trouble is that he senses from that moment that he's wrong but he can;t bring himself to act any differently, once away from the mountain, from the way he's always done. That remains a problem because all their meetings, other than the one in Riverton, and that leads to it, are spent on the mountain in what becaomes an alternative life, or maybe an alternative universe, for a short period at brief intervals - and that's all Ennis expects or hopes to get.
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It is so tragic that Ennis could not be coaxed into acknowledging his desire to be with Jack. I was also quite angry at him in this scene until I saw the consequences of this denial in the alley. He was so hopelessly conflicted. Perhaps he wanted it more than Jack at that moment.
I look at this scene and just really, really wish that Jack had turned the truck around and picked Ennis up.
Maybe things would have ended up differently . . . Perhaps :\'( :\'( :\'(
I had so wanted this to happen also. But I think Jack understood Ennis perfectly at that moment. To have pressed him some more would have invited increased resistance on Ennis's part. Ennis was resolved to fight against himself. Jack could not do anything...
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When they leave the mountain for the first time, the way Ennis reacts is somewhat analagous to the way one feels at the end of a holiday. For him the mountain has been a place away from real life, and the few months there a time out of time - it's the only part of his life that has ever presented him with any possibility of a different, richer life, but he's too afraid of the prospect to grasp it. The trouble is that he senses from that moment that he's wrong but he can;t bring himself to act any differently, once away from the mountain, from the way he's always done. That remains a problem because all their meetings, other than the one in Riverton, and that leads to it, are spent on the mountain in what becaomes an alternative life, or maybe an alternative universe, for a short period at brief intervals - and that's all Ennis expects or hopes to get.
Precisely. I do think that Ennis was constantly at war with himself. Certainly, it must have started when they were abouit to brink the sheep down from the mountain.
There is one image that I associate with Ennis and Jack fighting right before they descend: it is Jacob wrestling with the Angel. Do you get the analogy?
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I had rather seen Ennis trying to cope with his emotions as being like St Michael wrestling with the dragon....
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Ennis wrestles with his love. His love is both an angel and a dragon.
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IMO Jack is saying "I might be back" " if your going to be here". Maybe he should've been saying" I'm not going anywhere without you" I agree with Greenfrog. If Jack would have turned that truck around and came back, opened the door and told Ennis to park his ass in that passenger seat and quit playing, Maybe he d a got somewhere. + he would have seen how much Ennis wanted to go with him by observing his behavior in the alley. He should've been more forceful in my opinion..... But that's just me. ;) ;D