Brokeback Mountain Forum @ ennisjack.com
The Movie & Story => Characters, Quotes & Scenes => Topic started by: HildaPossible on Jun 25, 2006, 07:08 AM
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I have watched the special features of the brokeback Mountain DVD, and I remembered that there's something Jake Gyllenhaal had said- he said that Ang Lee asked him and Anne Hathaway to have a feeling of mixed like milk and water while acting a scene of thems, and jake said that he was just not sure what to do. That was funny, and it reminds me an old Chinese quote, which exactly has a meaning of "mixed like milk and water" (水乳交融). I think this is a little joke about Chinese-English confusion- you know, Ang Lee is a Chinese. Well, this is only a trivia I wanna share with you, hope you like it. :c)
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Hello and welcome,
I remember Jake saying he was confused about what Ang had said...but I thought that he said it was a chinese proverb...
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How strange is that, last night I watched the extras on the disc for the first time and saw that &**),
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I remember that, it's that Ang said when seeing Jake and Ann together that they went together like milk and water. And Anne was saying "oh wow yes" and Jake didn't understand. And that apparently it means you just mix seemlessly.
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Yes,i remember Jake not fully understanding it as he said milk and water don't really mix?
J.x
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If it means that one disappears into or merges imperceptibly with the othr, that sounds less like Jack and Lureen than Jack and Ennis, eg in SNIT.
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(para) Jake said, "Ang said we would be like milk and water mixed together, and Anne seems to understand that, but I have no idea what that means." ;D
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actually I want to add something
"milk mixed with water" is the opposite of "water mixed with oil" ;)
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Not that I really know what I'm talking about here.... (someone who knows the proverb please explain!!)
I take it to mean that it is an effortless mixing... a natural, effortless event like inertia or gravity....
Interesting, that does seem to imply something about the characters that we might not have assumed.
We can't say Jack and Ennis come together like milk and water, since it was not effortless, it was awkward--even dangerous--for some time in the FNIT; and then, it was more like gunpowder and fire than milk and water.....
So I guess what I get out of it is that it was the easiest thing to do, the path of least resistance for Jack and Lureen to get together. And, despite his face during the dance, by the time they get into the back seat, Jack certainly seems like a natural....
:c)
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water and mlik mixed together means two thing well mix perfectly
for example, when you mix wter and oil, oil will float on top of the water and they don't mix at all, but when you mix water and milk together, they will be completely moxed..i hope you understand , my Eng is bad :P
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water and mlik mixed together means two thing well mix perfectly
for example, when you mix wter and oil, oil will float on top of the water and they don't mix at all, but when you mix water and milk together, they will be completely moxed..i hope you understand , my Eng is bad :P
:t) very much for the explanation. So Jack and Lureen are completely mixed.... That's interesting.
Well, I can't really say I'm surprised. There was obviously a chemistry there from the beginning.... They were both young and attractive....
I've always been of the opinion that both men loved their wives (and their wives loved them). Of course they had problems, but all married couples do. (And the fact that the two men were in love with each other was a pretty hard thing for the marriages to overcome.)
Interesting, though, that Alma divorced Ennis, while Jack and Lureen stayed married for eighteen (????) or so years.... There was SOMETHING there. They certainly could have divorced--with LD's blessing--if they were absolutely miserable.
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Water that's had milk added goes cloudy and loses its transparency and brilliance. So who's the milk and who's the water? What does the simile say about Jack's effect on Lureen and hers on him?
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Water that's had milk added goes cloudy and loses its transparency and brilliance. So who's the milk and who's the water? What does the simile say about Jack's effect on Lureen and hers on him?
Even if they become one, they loose something precious about themselves when they meet.
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I take "mixed like milk and water" a little differently. I take it to mean that, yeah milk and water can mix,but not really such a delicious combination.
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I take "mixed like milk and water" a little differently. I take it to mean that, yeah milk and water can mix,but not really such a delicious combination.
yep..good one
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If it means that one disappears into or merges imperceptibly with the othr, that sounds less like Jack and Lureen than Jack and Ennis, eg in SNIT.
This is a bit off topic but... I view Jack and Ennis more like oil and vinegar. The two do mix... you shake the bottle and they blend together very well (and taste good to... but we're gonna let that lie... don't wanna get to far OT ;) ) but no matter how often you shake the bottle, they, sadly, have to separate when you set it down. :(
Anyway... back on topic... I thought Jake was SO adorable here with his "What does that mean... I have no idea what that means..." That fact that he freely admits that he has no clue, makes you think that truly he is a humble person, beautiful inside and out the way his friends say he is. Not that there was any doubt of that... :)
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I saw this on the LOGO special as well. I thought this was Ang's evaluation of Jake and Anne's---the actors-- chemistry and acting style on screen. That,s as actors, they go together like milk and water. I am still not sure exactly what it means though!
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I still haven't figured out what Jake's reaction to Anne was. He says very little when asked about her, except to make a very conventional remark about her beauty. He's much more talkative about almost everything and everyone else. I wonder if they did go together easily?
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I have always gotten the impression from all of the appearances they have done together, that Jake and Heath forged the strongest 'friendship' bond (obviously Heath and Michelle have the strongest bond but we are talkiin' friendship here), and because of Heath's relationship with Michelle, there was a bond between Jake and Michelle as well. Anne has somehow always felt like an afterthought, part of the group by default simply because she was also in the movie? She just doesn't seem to be part of the 'gang'. Not sure why that would be, but we don't really know what the interaction between all of them is out of the spotlight. Perhaps they just didn't click the way Jake and Heath, and Heath and Michelle did?
I could be wrong but that's the feeling I get.
On topic, I don't think that Ang was talking about Anne and Jake, I think he was trying to say that Jack and Lureen's characters blend together well, though not the most advantageous mix. Personally, I always thought, given the chemistry there, that Jack and Lureen would have been pretty happy together... other then the small thing of Jack being gay and already in love with Ennis that is. :-\\
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hey..you guys are trying to change the meaning of a thousand-years-old Chinese proverb XDD
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Nope... not change the meaning... tying to figure out what Ang meant when he said that the characters 'come together like milk and water'.
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Nope... not change the meaning... tying to figure out what Ang meant when he said that the characters 'come together like milk and water'.
Well, if I wanted to mix water and milk together it would be to stretch it out.. make it go further.
Maybe he meant Lureen and Jack were to be portrayed as more than they really were.
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hey..you guys are trying to change the meaning of a thousand-years-old Chinese proverb XDD
xD
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Watering down milk used to be an offence - probably still is. Maybe the implication, not the meaning of the saying, is that their marriage is a watered-down version of what a real relationship should be.
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Nope... not change the meaning... tying to figure out what Ang meant when he said that the characters 'come together like milk and water'.
i believe he means what the phrase is supposed to mean as it's a widely used Chinese phrase
which is what I said
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Nope... not change the meaning... tying to figure out what Ang meant when he said that the characters 'come together like milk and water'.
i believe he means what the phrase is supposed to mean as it's a widely used Chinese phrase
which is what I said
So, what does it mean? I hadn't heard of this widely used Chinese phrase.
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when you put more water into milk, it will be thinner and thinner. (do i use the rith word --- thinner?) :-[
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this is what I found
水乳交融 get along swimmingly with each other, mix well like milk and water;
水乳交融 complete understanding between friends (“blending of water with milk”).
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this is what I found
水乳交融 get along swimmingly with each other, mix well like milk and water;
水乳交融 complete understanding between friends (“blending of water with milk”).
Very nice. Are there similar sayings in other traditions? I seem to recall: yes. But I can't remember anything specific right now.
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I'm sure there are similar phrases in other languages
even in Chinese- there must be more than one phrase which has similar meaning
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My English dictionaries give "milk and water" as meaning insipid, weak, watered down, etc, and the Dictionary of Historical Slang record it as an eighteenth-cntruy toast, neither of which is particularly germane.
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My English dictionaries give "milk and water" as meaning insipid, weak, watered down, etc, and the Dictionary of Historical Slang record it as an eighteenth-cntruy toast, neither of which is particularly germane.
WOW!! I'm amazed, because that's how I see Jack and Lureen's relationship.
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Yes, very interesting. Not quite the same as the Chinese meaning, but also suprisingly applicable in this case...
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How odd! I've always seen Lureen as sassy or feisty and quite able to complain and bitch. Jack has some of the same aspects - I had assumed their marriage might be not based on physical passion after the first months but contain a certain amount of conflict or mutual irritation. I never thought of it as being milk and water in that sense.
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How odd! I've always seen Lureen as sassy or feisty and quite able to complain and bitch. Jack has some of the same aspects - I had assumed their marriage might be not based on physical passion after the first months but contain a certain amount of conflict or mutual irritation. I never thought of it as being milk and water in that sense.
KitKat, thanks for the translations/explanations provided. I really think any examination of this proverb should be linked to the original Chinese context, which is surely what Lee had in mind. Coming together effortlessly, complete union, lack of friction. Hmmm.
My idea/assumption is that when Lee told JG and AH that they "come together like milk and water," he's talking about the scene in the back seat of the car. It's an effortless, gravity-propelled, 32 feet per second per second ("Do you think I'm too fast?") descent into physical satisfaction.
And afterwards.... They're both young and attractive... they think, "why not?" and they get married. The milk and water metaphor does not apply to their marriage, I don't think, especially as Jake gets to know the family...
Finally, the image changes, "As far as our marriage goes, we could do it over the phone."
But that first meeting.... milk and water.
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I'm not even 100% sure of the events in the car - when he says, Youare in a hurry" Jack looks n=more taken aback than anything, though he quickly goes into "necking in the car" mode. I imagine he's been thinking over what he knows about Lureen and her relative wealth, and decides to go with what she wants; I reckon he knows it's not what he wants but is expedient.
I don't see them becoming one in any real sense at any point - they are always two separate individuals, because Lureen is never that other person who completes Jack.
Jake said he didn't understand waht Ang meant, and I'm with Jake - neither do I.
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I've heard this expression before, and I thought it was the opposite of "oil and Water don't mix". Mile and water DO mix- put them together and you can no longer separate them. Is this true of Jack and Lureen? I can't see it. I think Jack was just so poor and hungry, he saw a meal ticket and some financial opportunity. He also saw marrying Lureen as something that would boost his own self-image that he was NOT gay, as he affirmed to Ennis. Having such a pretty wife and one with community status, was attractive to this poor farmboy/starving rodeo rider. IMO, I doubt Jack would have thought all this out. He wasn't too good at reasoning why he did things. He seems to me to be a more fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants guy. Go where the wind blows you.
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Yes, Jack's an opportunist and one who's, as he admits to Ennis in the motel, been so unsuccessful at rodeoing that he's nearly starved.Lureen has to be better than that. She's female, wealthy, has made it clear she's interested and isn't totally hideous, I suppose. And Jack has no hopes of seeing Ennis again anytime soon. But I don;t see them as becoming one - it seems to me far more a convenient arrangement and maybe for Lureen a way of defying her father.
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i would say this "milk and water sensation" only last for a few seconds-in the car's back seat
and edgar: you are the first non-Chinese who called me "kitkat"! ;D
(my Chinese net friends always make fun of my nickname)
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i remember hearing jake say that oh and also on the bonus features jake said they filmed in alberter but its alberta i would no i live there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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i would say this "milk and water sensation" only last for a few seconds-in the car's back seat
and edgar: you are the first non-Chinese who called me "kitkat"! ;D
(my Chinese net friends always make fun of my nickname)
LOL...Love it :8
Jennis.x
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i would say this "milk and water sensation" only last for a few seconds-in the car's back seat
and edgar: you are the first non-Chinese who called me "kitkat"! ;D
(my Chinese net friends always make fun of my nickname)
Whoops! I wasn't making fun... that's just what my eye saw at that moment...
And I agree with you.. I took the "milk and water" comment as Lee's direction for that particular scene. (Anyway, you just direct one scene at a time, generally.)
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Whoops! I wasn't making fun... that's just what my eye saw at that moment...
And I agree with you.. I took the "milk and water" comment as Lee's direction for that particular scene. (Anyway, you just direct one scene at a time, generally.)
i know~haha, it's easy to misread ;D
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Yes, if it applies only to that scene, then I can see it - I suppose he's trying to suggest that what happens is quick and effortless.