Brokeback Mountain Forum @ ennisjack.com
The Movie & Story => Characters, Quotes & Scenes => Topic started by: smilesalot on Jul 10, 2006, 02:00 PM
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I CANNOT BELIEVE, I just tried to post this just now and I just has a power outage and LOST EVERYTHING I had written. UGH. :\'( Please bear with me, I know this has been talked about elsewhere but I'm sure you all will understand that insane need to express something about this movie.
I received an insight last night while watching the movie. One of the last things Jack says after coming off the mountain is "If the army don't get me." I am thinking that line must have weighed heavily on Ennis' mind, four years roll by and he doesn't know if Jack's gone to war and doesn't know if he's alive or dead. It must have eaten him up, trying to be a "normal" husband and father, but wondering all the while whether Jack was alive. What a feeling of euphoria he must have had when he gets that postcard, at least receving evidence that Jack is alive and living in Texas. And then that uncontainable joy when he see Jack step out of his truck ..alive and whole and looking as hot and virile as ever. No wonder Ennis practically flew down that landing and landed on Jack!
And then we get the almost painful "pulling back" after their earth-shattering kiss, the desperate return to normalcy. Ennis' whispered "Later" always gets me, followed by that tantalizing head nudge, like he just couldn't help himself. What follows when Ennis introduces Jack, is, I think some of the best acting in this movie. The way Jack and Ennis are talking with their chests heaving, like they can barely catch their breath. The short choppy sentences, like they can barely think, let alone breathe. The way they can't look at each other without drowning, so they have to look down at their feet every few seconds. The way both men kind of stick their hands/fingers in their pockets, as if to stop them from trembling or to keep them off each other. The way Ennis leans against the door jamb so he's facing Jack and has to turn his head to talk to Alma, like he just can't keep Jack out of his sight and needs him even in his peripheral vision. Of course, Jack's " I have a boy. Eight months old. Smiles a lot" -- desperately saying whatever comes into his head, reminding himself to be polite, flashes that salesman smile of his as if to say, "Yah, I'm just a good ole boy, yup, come up here for a few beers, talk about old times with my fishing buddy..." . Then that distinct " Well enough small talk" moment and Ennis hurriedly nudges Jack out the door. Love it, love it, love it.
I know Michelle has great moments here too (Her expression when she says, "Sure" gulp "Sure 'nuf"), but to me it's all about the boys. I know this is OT but DAMN YOU Phillip Seymour Hoffman. Both Heath and Jake deserved Oscars!!!
Back on track, I was wondering if Ennis did do some grieving during the four years they were first apart, if that helped him deal with Jack's real death at the end? Or had their relationship evolved so much after 20 years that the first 4 years apart are just a distant memory? Were the 4 years apart just a foreshadowing of the later ultimate separation between them? Any thoughts?
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I do think that in the 4 intervening years Ennis had hope. It is clear that he never forgot Jack, although life seemed normal enough. But in the end, when Jack died, there was no hope of ever seeing him again in this world.
In the 4 intervening years, there was hope; in the last years, there is love, grief, and regret.
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I think Ennis had accepted that he'd never see Jack again. He was "stuck with what he had" That day was just like any other day. work,dinner Alma, the kids..... Then he gets the postcard....You just know this was something beyond his wildest dreams. Not only is he alive, he's coming to see me. BLISS.
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I think Ennis had accepted that he'd never see Jack again. He was "stuck with what he had" That day was just like any other day. work,dinner Alma, the kids..... Then he gets the postcard....You just know this was something beyond his wildest dreams. Not only is he alive, he's coming to see me. BLISS.
You are most likely right about Ennis accepting that he would never see Jack again. But sometime I do wonder whether he did not hope to ever see him again. That is the wonderful thing about hope, no? It challenges all expectations in the pursuit of the improbable...
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I think what they experienced on BBM was so strong, Ennis can't help but hope during those 4 years. And even after Jack's death really, evidenced by his dreams (as mentioned in the original story) -- almost like, I know he's dead but what would I give to just have him walk through that door. I do believe though that Ennis had given up on seeing Jack again - and was maybe dealing with the pleasure/pain of those feelings Like "Thank God, I can put that "episode" behind me, now I can just try to act "normal" and " Damn, where is he? I need him? Things can't end between us, this way." Which is why the reunion scene is so passionate, for a brief unguarded minute, Ennis can say and do all the things he wanted to do..pent up inside him for 4 frustrating years.
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Ennis did obviously think about Jack alot, evidenced by his conversation in the motel. Thought he was still "sore from that punch", Did he get drafted? "army did'nt get ya?" He had to hope against all hope that he'd see his "lil darlin" again.In the ss he left no doubt "shoulda never let you otta my sight" I agree Ennis You should'nt have.
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Yes, but if they didn't have that 4-year gap, would the reunion have been as raw, as passionate? I think so much of their relationship is spent apart it contributes to the tragedy/triumph of their love. The distances between them heighten the intimacy and electricity when they are together.
To reply to an earlier post, I am not thinking Ennis's life is as bleak as "there is love, grief, and regret". Do you really think he's lost all hope after Jack dies? Isn't Jack's death the impetus that catapults Ennis into an understanding of himself, a form of self-acceptance, evidenced in the hanging of the two shirts and the postcards. Although I agree there is love, grief, and regret for Ennis (which is what just breaks my heart) I do believe Ennis does come to a moment of redemption when he realizes he can actually DO something to show his love for Alma Jr. This is what Jack taught him, and he honours Jack by beginning to show love. Although there will never be another "Reunion" scene after Jack's death, there is a better sense of Ennis keeping Jack close - reuniting the two shirts as it were.
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To reply to an earlier post, I am not thinking Ennis's life is as bleak as "there is love, grief, and regret". Do you really think he's lost all hope after Jack dies? Isn't Jack's death the impetus that catapults Ennis into an understanding of himself, a form of self-acceptance, evidenced in the hanging of the two shirts and the postcards. Although I agree there is love, grief, and regret for Ennis (which is what just breaks my heart) I do believe Ennis does come to a moment of redemption when he realizes he can actually DO something to show his love for Alma Jr. This is what Jack taught him, and he honours Jack by beginning to show love. Although there will never be another "Reunion" scene after Jack's death, there is a better sense of Ennis keeping Jack close - reuniting the two shirts as it were.
But he will ever find the same love he had with Jack? I think not. In this sense, there is no hope. But it is a conscious choice. Ennis has resolved to be faithful to Jack unto death. If we are to believe the screenplay dates and the implied discussion about Troy, Ennis lost touch with his daughter for nearly 2 years (from fall of 1982 to Spring of 1984). In a sense, he has withdrawn from the world, even as he opens up to the love of his daughter. A daughter's love he shall have always. Jack's, he shall never again have with another.
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Wow, never occured to me WHY Ennis lost touch with Alma Jr. for two years. I guess I was just thinking how my Dad always used to get my friends and boyfriends mixed up - more from like a physchological distance than actually not seeing each other for two years. You know, see each other every week, talk about stuff, but nothing really sinks in. I totally agree there will never be another Jack in Ennis' life. I do see that in a positive light, though, because Ennis finally realizes the irreplaceable, magic kind of love he had with Jack. I like how you say it is a conscious decision for Ennis to be alone this time, rather than everyone leaving him behind (how does Alma say it, "all alone as when you were growing up." paraphrasing.)
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Wow, never occured to me WHY Ennis lost touch with Alma Jr. for two years. I guess I was just thinking how my Dad always used to get my friends and boyfriends mixed up - more from like a physchological distance than actually not seeing each other for two years. You know, see each other every week, talk about stuff, but nothing really sinks in. I totally agree there will never be another Jack in Ennis' life. I do see that in a positive light, though, because Ennis finally realizes the irreplaceable, magic kind of love he had with Jack. I like how you say it is a conscious decision for Ennis to be alone this time, rather than everyone leaving him behind (how does Alma say it, "all alone as when you were growing up." paraphrasing.)
smilesalot, we should be careful to note that this is according to the screeenplay dates, which many in this forum find unpalatable -- understandably. But it does corraborate the fact that Ennis still thought Alma Jr. was going out with Troy: Alma said something like "Daddy, that was 2 years ago." It does seem to conjure up an image of a very lonely Ennis, still mourning for Jack -- in a sense, inconsolable in his grief, but forevermore steadfast in his love.
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The postcard, the reunion, the motel...just magical. Those 2 deserved the oscars hands down...
Just a side question????? HMMMMMM......Why didn't anybody think the army wouldn't get Ennis?
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The postcard, the reunion, the motel...just magical. Those 2 deserved the oscars hands down...
Just a side question????? HMMMMMM......Why didn't anybody think the army wouldn't get Ennis?
I've always wondered about that too, but never got round to asking ??? Any ideas?
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Wow, never occured to me WHY Ennis lost touch with Alma Jr. for two years. I guess I was just thinking how my Dad always used to get my friends and boyfriends mixed up - more from like a physchological distance than actually not seeing each other for two years. You know, see each other every week, talk about stuff, but nothing really sinks in. I totally agree there will never be another Jack in Ennis' life. I do see that in a positive light, though, because Ennis finally realizes the irreplaceable, magic kind of love he had with Jack. I like how you say it is a conscious decision for Ennis to be alone this time, rather than everyone leaving him behind (how does Alma say it, "all alone as when you were growing up." paraphrasing.)
I never thought he lost touch with Alma Jr. for 2 years, I'm sure he was kind of out of touch with what is going on in his daughters life that's all...His mind was elsewhere...
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Wow, never occured to me WHY Ennis lost touch with Alma Jr. for two years. I guess I was just thinking how my Dad always used to get my friends and boyfriends mixed up - more from like a physchological distance than actually not seeing each other for two years. You know, see each other every week, talk about stuff, but nothing really sinks in. I totally agree there will never be another Jack in Ennis' life. I do see that in a positive light, though, because Ennis finally realizes the irreplaceable, magic kind of love he had with Jack. I like how you say it is a conscious decision for Ennis to be alone this time, rather than everyone leaving him behind (how does Alma say it, "all alone as when you were growing up." paraphrasing.)
smilesalot, we should be careful to note that this is according to the screeenplay dates, which many in this forum find unpalatable -- understandably. But it does corraborate the fact that Ennis still thought Alma Jr. was going out with Troy: Alma said something like "Daddy, that was 2 years ago." It does seem to conjure up an image of a very lonely Ennis, still mourning for Jack -- in a sense, inconsolable in his grief, but forevermore steadfast in his love.
Someone was kind enough to point out that my tone here may be construed as a bit negative. I apologize if this was the impression, but that was not the intent.
My intent in the above quote is to say that my argument about Ennis not seeing Alma Jr. for 2 years depends on the screenplay dates. Many people are unhappy about the screenplay dates and how they differ from the short story (which puts Jack's death in 1983 rather than 1982). If you object to the screenplay dates, you are most likely not to believe that Ennis and Alma Jr. did not see each other for 2 years. Although I note that in the movie, it LOOKED like Ennis did not see his daughter for 2 years -- because Ennis only knew Alma Jr.'s boyfriend from 2 years ago.
smilesalot, what I was trying to say in the above post was that even the point I made is not immune to argument. It depends on whether you believe in the screenplay timelines or not. :)
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I see your point, although not having any (as yet) access to the screenplay or screenplay dates the explanation given is a good as any. (Not seeing Alma for two years, I mean.) No offense taken, no apology needed, and thanks for being sensitive. :)
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THX for clarifying TPE...some of us are in the dark a bit...I will have to check out the screenplay. I just thought Ennis was out of touch with what was going on in his daughters life. Now I am enlightened...It was two years since Jacks death...Ennis was withdrawn...even sadder :\'(
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One of the last things Jack says after coming off the mountain is "If the army don't get me." I am thinking that line must have weighed heavily on Ennis' mind, four years roll by and he doesn't know if Jack's gone to war and doesn't know if he's alive or dead. It must have eaten him up, trying to be a "normal" husband and father, but wondering all the while whether Jack was alive.
One of those things I hadn't thought about but will think about alot now... thank you smilesalot :) great nick by the way :)
It must have been such a relief to know that Jack was ok. Ennis don't even ask if Jack has been in the army until after the shag at the motel... and even then he tries to make it abit casual :) HE must have been worried sick. He must have known what happened in VIetnam, cause thats where Jack woulda gone had he been drafted right?
THen again, had Jack gone to the army he might not have met Lureen... hm...
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One of the last things Jack says after coming off the mountain is "If the army don't get me." I am thinking that line must have weighed heavily on Ennis' mind, four years roll by and he doesn't know if Jack's gone to war and doesn't know if he's alive or dead. It must have eaten him up, trying to be a "normal" husband and father, but wondering all the while whether Jack was alive.
One of those things I hadn't thought about but will think about alot now... thank you smilesalot :) great nick by the way :)
It must have been such a relief to know that Jack was ok. Ennis don't even ask if Jack has been in the army until after the shag at the motel... and even then he tries to make it abit casual :) HE must have been worried sick. He must have known what happened in VIetnam, cause thats where Jack woulda gone had he been drafted right?
THen again, had Jack gone to the army he might not have met Lureen... hm...
Fear and concern for Jack must have consumed Ennis sometimes during those 4 years. It probably has something to do with all the pent-up rage we see in the July 4 scene, for example.
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The postcard, the reunion, the motel...just magical. Those 2 deserved the oscars hands down...
Just a side question????? HMMMMMM......Why didn't anybody think the army wouldn't get Ennis?
I've always wondered about that too, but never got round to asking ??? Any ideas?
Ive pondered that, but I cant come up with anything...guess it was just one of those unsaid things
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The postcard, the reunion, the motel...just magical. Those 2 deserved the oscars hands down...
Just a side question????? HMMMMMM......Why didn't anybody think the army wouldn't get Ennis?
I've always wondered about that too, but never got round to asking ??? Any ideas?
Ive pondered that, but I cant come up with anything...guess it was just one of those unsaid things
I thought about this too... could it be that Ennis was so far-sighted, as the short story made it clear. " His reflexes were uncommonly quick and he was farsighted enough to dislike reading anything except Hamley's saddle catalog. "
They never talked about it, but Ennis was always squinting... Does the army not take people who can't see? Not sure. I think so...
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The postcard, the reunion, the motel...just magical. Those 2 deserved the oscars hands down...
Just a side question????? HMMMMMM......Why didn't anybody think the army wouldn't get Ennis?
I've always wondered about that too, but never got round to asking ??? Any ideas?
Ive pondered that, but I cant come up with anything...guess it was just one of those unsaid things
I thought about this too... could it be that Ennis was so far-sighted, as the short story made it clear. " His reflexes were uncommonly quick and he was farsighted enough to dislike reading anything except Hamley's saddle catalog. "
They never talked about it, but Ennis was always squinting... Does the army not take people who can't see? Not sure. I think so...
I do think the army only attempted to enlist married men with children as a last resort during the Vietnam War...
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I knew someone would have the answer...Thanks TPE
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I do think the army only attempted to enlist married men with children as a last resort during the Vietnam War...
Yep, I believe thats' the case. By the summer of Brokeback, Ennis was only a few months away from marriage and safety from the draft. Jack had no such prospects in sight.
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[One of those things I hadn't thought about but will think about alot now... thank you smilesalot :) great nick by the way :)
Thanks, one of my favourite lines in the movie, obviously.
Fear and concern for Jack must have consumed Ennis sometimes during those 4 years. It probably has something to do with all the pent-up rage we see in the July 4 scene, for example.
Wow, great pick-up on that. I know I am kind of merging the ss and in the movie, but in the ss Ennis and Jack talk about current events (the Thresher) so obviously Ennis keeps in touch with what's going on in the world. Can't you just see him scouring the papers, wondering, did Jack perish in the war or is he just sore about that punch? Either way, Ennis would feel frustrated and helpless about the whole thing, and would TOTALLY lash out at anyone disrespecting the July 4th celebrations, as well as the obvious need to protect his children from unsavoury types. (although Ennis ends up swearing, himself.)
Thanks all for your insights.
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Wow, never occured to me WHY Ennis lost touch with Alma Jr. for two years. I guess I was just thinking how my Dad always used to get my friends and boyfriends mixed up - more from like a physchological distance than actually not seeing each other for two years. You know, see each other every week, talk about stuff, but nothing really sinks in. I totally agree there will never be another Jack in Ennis' life. I do see that in a positive light, though, because Ennis finally realizes the irreplaceable, magic kind of love he had with Jack. I like how you say it is a conscious decision for Ennis to be alone this time, rather than everyone leaving him behind (how does Alma say it, "all alone as when you were growing up." paraphrasing.)
smilesalot, we should be careful to note that this is according to the screeenplay dates, which many in this forum find unpalatable -- understandably. But it does corraborate the fact that Ennis still thought Alma Jr. was going out with Troy: Alma said something like "Daddy, that was 2 years ago." It does seem to conjure up an image of a very lonely Ennis, still mourning for Jack -- in a sense, inconsolable in his grief, but forevermore steadfast in his love.
Someone was kind enough to point out that my tone here may be construed as a bit negative. I apologize if this was the impression, but that was not the intent.
My intent in the above quote is to say that my argument about Ennis not seeing Alma Jr. for 2 years depends on the screenplay dates. Many people are unhappy about the screenplay dates and how they differ from the short story (which puts Jack's death in 1983 rather than 1982). If you object to the screenplay dates, you are most likely not to believe that Ennis and Alma Jr. did not see each other for 2 years. Although I note that in the movie, it LOOKED like Ennis did not see his daughter for 2 years -- because Ennis only knew Alma Jr.'s boyfriend from 2 years ago.
smilesalot, what I was trying to say in the above post was that even the point I made is not immune to argument. It depends on whether you believe in the screenplay timelines or not. :)
Upon reflection, and of course another look at this scene, I can see now what you're saying about the two year absence. It makes the story richer somehow that the last scene is picked up two years after Jack's death and it's implied that Ennis went into a mourning period. So then the look of joy on Alma Jr.'s face when Ennis decides to go to her wedding after all -- indicating he is ready to come out of mourning.
Also, the thought that Ennis had those shirts and postcard hanging up for years, caressing them maybe every day, feels comforting that he's devoted to Jack's memory. Last time I studied that scene, watching how carefully Ennis folds Alma Jr.'s sweater away, his closet reminded me of a hope chest -- something a young girl uses to store her treasures in preparation for when she finds true love and becomes a bride. A romantic notion that Ennis seeks comfort and receives it from the treasures he carefully places in his own version of a hope chest - a tribute to love.
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I find the hope chest imagery quite beautiful. The thought had not occured to me before, although the fact that the shirst were there seemed to call to mind the image of a shrine or reliquary...
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I guess it came to me when discussing in another post if Ennis had lost all hope after Jack died. IMO if you are without hope, you have nothing, but I just don't see Ennis as being hope-less in the end. In fact, the opposite, which is where the hope chest imagery comes from. Yes, the shrine image came to me as well....but the image changed for me when he put Alma Jr.'s sweater in there. The closet holds things that are ALIVE to him - or maybe things that keep him going, remind him what he has to live for.
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I guess it came to me when discussing in another post if Ennis had lost all hope after Jack died. IMO if you are without hope, you have nothing, but I just don't see Ennis as being hope-less in the end. In fact, the opposite, which is where the hope chest imagery comes from. Yes, the shrine image came to me as well....but the image changed for me when he put Alma Jr.'s sweater in there. The closet holds things that are ALIVE to him - or maybe things that keep him going, remind him what he has to live for.
There certainly is hope in the guise of Ennis opening up to the love of his daughter. I guess "hopeless" is not a word to be used in describing Ennis staying faithful to Jack forever. But there is a finality to the last scene. In a deep way, the fulfilment of a life of love with Jack is now beyond all hope -- at least in this world. But a gate forever closed leads the pilgrim on to other roads not traveled.
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[ But a gate forever closed leads the pilgrim on to other roads not traveled.
Wow, tpe. Gotta breathe that in for a second. Love that...it's gorgeous...gave me a tingle. Gonna stoke that tingle for the rest of the day and let it resonate for a while. Thanks for that.
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Thanks you, smilesalot, for starting this thread.
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[Also, the thought that Ennis had those shirts and postcard hanging up for years, caressing them maybe every day, feels comforting that he's devoted to Jack's memory. Last time I studied that scene, watching how carefully Ennis folds Alma Jr.'s sweater away, his closet reminded me of a hope chest -- something a young girl uses to store her treasures in preparation for when she finds true love and becomes a bride. A romantic notion that Ennis seeks comfort and receives it from the treasures he carefully places in his own version of a hope chest - a tribute to love.
I, too, love this idea of the hope chest. I think the closet was a shrine to Jack, and Ennis' way of protecting and cherishing their love. I didn't think Ennis totally lost contact with Alma Jr. for those two years, rather he was in such a state after Jack's death, he probably saw her very little and wasn't very involved in her life.
I'm sorry if this is OT, but smilesalot bringing up the idea of the hope chest made me think of something else. I've often thought that the scene where Jack's Mom gives Ennis the shirts is almost like a military funeral, where a soldier hands the grieving widow the American flag that was draped over the fallen soldier's casket. Jack's Mom appears to be giving Ennis' these shirts in such a way. Ennis will then take these symbols of his fallen angel home with him and create his own sacred place (or hope chest) where Jack will be remembered and treasured. *Sniff* Does anyone have a hankie? :'(
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I love that, it's true, how she keeps the shirts carefuly folded. IMO she is doing this so Mr. Nasty Twist doesn't question the fact that Ennis is bringing BOTH shirts home. But I love how both shirts are handled with such reverence, and that little unspoken exchange once Ennis goes out the door, how he gestures with the paper bag -- just a lovely tribute to their beloved Jack.
Back on topic (I think) in the SS it appears Ennis just hangs the shirts on the walls of the trailer along with the postcard. Of course, as discussed, in the movie the "shrine" is in the closet. Why do you think that is? Sorry, I think this was discussed in another thread.....BTW thanks for the encouraging comments, all.
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The shrine idea says the object of veneration is dead, saintly and presumably in a better place. I'm not convinved that, brought up by a Methodist mother Ennis would have much truck with popish notions like relics. And I wonder if he'd consider Jack as an obvious candidate for salvation - I've always thought that his childhood conditioning may have had something to do with his fear of admitting his attraction to another man.
In terms of the movie, however, the shrine idea works well as an indicator of Ennis's ability to externalise his love for Jack.
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The shrine idea says the object of veneration is dead, saintly and presumably in a better place. I'm not convinved that, brought up by a Methodist mother Ennis would have much truck with popish notions like relics. And I wonder if he'd consider Jack as an obvious candidate for salvation - I've always thought that his childhood conditioning may have had something to do with his fear of admitting his attraction to another man.
In terms of the movie, however, the shrine idea works well as an indicator of Ennis's ability to externalise his love for Jack.
Jack's bloodied shirt do have the flavour of a martyr's relic. The tire iron is the instrument of his passion. Ennis's own shirt can be likened to a cope or even a chrysalis of sleep and resurrection.
Perhaps this is far fetched to some, but this was the flavour I got in my later viewings of the scene. It was almost as if Ennis was performing a Benediction when he reveals the shirts...
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I have to admit, I find the image of "shrine" and "relic" as being too far removed from Ennis' earthy nature. Throughout the whole movie he is closed off, yet there are moments when he reveals that he is a tactile person, even when it's just to give a little punch or shove. Which is the reason why the Reunion scene always slays me....from Ennis jittery anticipation, to his ear-grabbing I'm-going-to-swallow-you-whole kiss, to his tender "later" and head nudge, to the way he hooks his thumbs in his pockets because he knows otherwise he will not be able to keep his hand off Jack...Ennis just reveals himself so much.
Every day I see him caressing those shirts, touching the postcard, in an attempt to "stoke" embers of Jack's memory. As if to say, "you're with me today" "I feel you in this moment." Maybe he just leaves that door wide open, so when he catches a glimpse of it out of the corner of his eye, it's like Jack standing there in the front of the closet door. So much more intimate, more personal, than the image I receive when I think of "shrine", "relic","veneration", "benediction".
IMO the blood on Jack's shirt represents BOTH of them, Jack was trying to staunch Ennis' blood with his sleeve and when Ennis slugged him Jack's blood mingled with Ennis'. I can picture Jack looking at that blood mixed together and becoming one - his greatest wish, his steadfast dream. Ennis preserves this, because now he can admit it was his wish, too. My take on it...just thinking out loud.
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I have to admit, I find the image of "shrine" and "relic" as being too far removed from Ennis' earthy nature. Throughout the whole movie he is closed off, yet there are moments when he reveals that he is a tactile person, even when it's just to give a little punch or shove. Which is the reason why the Reunion scene always slays me....from Ennis jittery anticipation, to his ear-grabbing I'm-going-to-swallow-you-whole kiss, to his tender "later" and head nudge, to the way he hooks his thumbs in his pockets because he knows otherwise he will not be able to keep his hand off Jack...Ennis just reveals himself so much.
Every day I see him caressing those shirts, touching the postcard, in an attempt to "stoke" embers of Jack's memory. As if to say, "you're with me today" "I feel you in this moment." Maybe he just leaves that door wide open, so when he catches a glimpse of it out of the corner of his eye, it's like Jack standing there in the front of the closet door. So much more intimate, more personal, than the image I receive when I think of "shrine", "relic","veneration", "benediction".
IMO the blood on Jack's shirt represents BOTH of them, Jack was trying to staunch Ennis' blood with his sleeve and when Ennis slugged him Jack's blood mingled with Ennis'. I can picture Jack looking at that blood mixed together and becoming one - his greatest wish, his steadfast dream. Ennis preserves this, because now he can admit it was his wish, too. My take on it...just thinking out loud.
Go right ahead and think out loud. I totally agree with you, for what it's worth. The bit I highlighted is beautifully put :\'(
One thing, though - Jack didn't actually bleed when Ennis punched him, did he? It was just Ennis's blood on the shirts - but I reckon that when Jack looked at the shirts he felt like he had a part of Ennis with him because of the blood, as opposed to just something that had belonged to Ennis....much more poignant and sacred, IMHO.
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I do think the army only attempted to enlist married men with children as a last resort during the Vietnam War...
Yep, I believe thats' the case. By the summer of Brokeback, Ennis was only a few months away from marriage and safety from the draft. Jack had no such prospects in sight.
As far as Ennis being drafted, at that time all men had to register for the draft when they were 18. Not everyone registered was drafted - it was like a lottery, done by birthday. And, married men WERE NOT excluded from the draft.
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One thing, though - Jack didn't actually bleed when Ennis punched him, did he? It was just Ennis's blood on the shirts - but I reckon that when Jack looked at the shirts he felt like he had a part of Ennis with him because of the blood, as opposed to just something that had belonged to Ennis....much more poignant and sacred, IMHO.
No blood of Jack's on the shirts....
But twenty years' worth of tears.
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I do think the army only attempted to enlist married men with children as a last resort during the Vietnam War...
Yep, I believe thats' the case. By the summer of Brokeback, Ennis was only a few months away from marriage and safety from the draft. Jack had no such prospects in sight.
In the US in the 1960's there were two ways to get into the military: enlist or be drafted. Since neither Ennis or Jack mentioned the possibility (or desirability) of enlisting, they must have been worried about the draft.
At that time all men over the age of 18 had to register with Selective Services. All men (MARRIED and single) aged 18-24 were eligible for the draft, but not every one was selected.
The draft was handled like a lottery. The draftees were selected by their birthdays (month, day, year). So in 1963, men born between 1939 and 1945 could have been drafted.
Each day of those six years was given a number and then the number was written on balls (like the lottery) and loaded into a drum. Then balls were selected at random and that established the sequence in which men were called for the draft. (I think it may have been a separate lottery also by year, too). The lottery was done publicly and the selection date sequence would have been published (in newpapers) and official government publications.
In 1963, both Ennis and Jack would have known how close they were to being drafted.
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I do think the army only attempted to enlist married men with children as a last resort during the Vietnam War...
Yep, I believe thats' the case. By the summer of Brokeback, Ennis was only a few months away from marriage and safety from the draft. Jack had no such prospects in sight.
In the US in the 1960's there were two ways to get into the military: enlist or be drafted. Since neither Ennis or Jack mentioned the possibility (or desirability) of enlisting, they must have been worried about the draft.
At that time all men over the age of 18 had to register with Selective Services. All men (MARRIED and single) aged 18-24 were eligible for the draft, but not every one was selected.
The draft was handled like a lottery. The draftees were selected by their birthdays (month, day, year). So in 1963, men born between 1939 and 1945 could have been drafted.
Each day of those six years was given a number and then the number was written on balls (like the lottery) and loaded into a drum. Then balls were selected at random and that established the sequence in which men were called for the draft. (I think it may have been a separate lottery also by year, too). The lottery was done publicly and the selection date sequence would have been published (in newpapers) and official government publications.
In 1963, both Ennis and Jack would have known how close they were to being drafted.
Thanks for explaining that, jesseanne :t) So they basically just got lucky then? ;) :) Although, Jack says the army didn't get him cause he was "too busted up" from bullriding, so presumably he was drafted, but they turned him down ??? Well, like Ennis says in the ss, he looks in one piece to me, but I'm glad they were both spared from it :)
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After you get called up, you have to take a physical. If you pass then you're drafted.
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After you get called up, you have to take a physical. If you pass then you're drafted.
Let me rephrase that...
If your date was selected by lottery you would receive a letter saying "Greetings," and have to report to the local draft board for a physical.
If you passed the physical, and there we no special circumstances (like married with children) then you were drafted.
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Edgar's post reminds me of churchill's " blood, sweat, toil and tears" - in this case on both shirts their sweat from working on Brokeback, Ennis's blood and tears and maybe Jack's tears too - he's had the shirts for almost twenty years.
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After you get called up, you have to take a physical. If you pass then you're drafted.
Let me rephrase that...
If your date was selected by lottery you would receive a letter saying "Greetings," and have to report to the local draft board for a physical.
If you passed the physical, and there we no special circumstances (like married with children) then you were drafted.
Well, if it was me, Jack would've passed his physical with flying colours, but I guess the US Army have a rather different criteria! ::) ;) :d)
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One thing, though - Jack didn't actually bleed when Ennis punched him, did he? It was just Ennis's blood on the shirts - but I reckon that when Jack looked at the shirts he felt like he had a part of Ennis with him because of the blood, as opposed to just something that had belonged to Ennis....much more poignant and sacred, IMHO.
No blood of Jack's on the shirts....
But twenty years' worth of tears.
Ya know, I was just thinking this las night.... first Jack was goofing off and lasso'd Ennis, and Ennis was not in the best of moods, so the wrestling kind of esculated. Jack accidently knees Ennis and Ennis starts bleeding. :( :( The only reason Jack has blood on his shirt is because he came over to comfort and help Ennis. "Ennis, Ennis, are you o.k.?" Then of course, Ennis punches Jack. Had Jack not tried to help Ennis he would not gotten blood on his shirt. He was in love with Ennis.
The proof is the blood.
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Sorry, I thought Ennis' punch cut Jack's lip. I think in the ss it mentions how pitiful Jack's bruises were. Regardless, I wondered as well what the blood meant to Jack. I guess I never thought about his motivation for taking the shirt and his frame of mind until now...
I remember the first time I saw the movie, I was like, wow he has Ennis's shirt...he kept it as a momento of him. So did he think, well this is all I'm going to have from this summer on Brokeback? And then after thinking more about this, it touched me deeply to think of Jack taking the shirt ANYWAYS -- even though he had just been sucker punched by the man he loved. The blood on the shirt seemed so VIOLENT - yet, maybe Jack looked at that blood and thought tenderly of how deeply he wanted to heal the hurt he saw in Ennis. Maybe Jack looked at Ennis and thought, " I want to be the one to finally do right by him." Hence, Jack's concern after Ennis meets up with a bear, and the way he reaches out and caresses Ennis after the "no reins" comment. Even with Lureen, the way Jack kind of caresses her shoulder when he's trying to stick up for her and himself during the Thanksgiving scene. It just shows how complex Jack was. Others have called him a sexual predator but IMO he was not at all that way, because along with his sexual needs, his need to comfort was paramount.
Might be OT but I was equally touched by how Mrs. Twist reaches out to Ennis right after Mr. Twist tells him about Randall. To me, her gesture echoed so many of Jack's....I was like " Oh yes, so that's where he got it from."
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Jack evidently gets his touchy-feely side from his mother, just as Ennis gets the "swing a punch at it if it annoys you" thing from his father. Ennis seems to me to have almost no feminine side, while Jack appears to have both.
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Jack evidently gets his touchy-feely side from his mother, just as Ennis gets the "swing a punch at it if it annoys you" thing from his father. Ennis seems to me to have almost no feminine side, while Jack appears to have both.
I don't think Ennis just gets that from his father - I think it came from his brother too, and that influence continued after his parents were killed so it was the prevailing influence in his young life. Jack, on the other hand, had both parents around and I think it's reasonable to assume that his mother would have comforted him after his father beat him.
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No blood of Jack's on the shirts....
But twenty years' worth of tears.....
The above quote from Edgar is BEAUTIFUL and absolutely heartbreaking, and I shall think of it everytime I watch that closet scene from now on.
Rosie
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i think that ennis lived every moment of his life wondering what jack was doing not just thodse four years but all his life cause when he got his card back saying"declind" did u see the face of surprise like it wasnt surpose to end that way lol
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I agree ms.bluesky I think that they both spent their life wondering what the other was doing when they weren't together, How sad. :\'(
*o) I see that you've ended your message lol and I seem to be the only person on this site that doesn't know what lol means! (Maybe I'm just stupid ^*()Can you enlighten me?
Rosie
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lol=laughing out loud
;)
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No wonder Ennis practically flew down that landing and landed on Jack!
There isn't much that puts me into a full belly laugh but seeing your description in my minds eye has me roaring. Thanks, I needed that.
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No wonder Ennis practically flew down that landing and landed on Jack!
There isn't much that puts me into a full belly laugh but seeing your description in my minds eye has me roaring. Thanks, I needed that.
Glad t'be of service!! ;D You can tell I just LOVE this scene.