Brokeback Mountain Forum @ ennisjack.com
The Movie & Story => AP Short Story & Screenplay => Topic started by: misterlies on Jan 16, 2006, 02:48 PM
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Hey,
Although the quotes from the film seem fairly well documented here, I feel that there is a lot in the story which also merits discussion. Although I like how a lot of the dialogue is identical to that of the short story, some of my favourite quotes were missed out in the film, such as
"Christ, it got a be all that time a yours ahorseback makes it so goddamn good"
and
"Come on, Ennis, you just shot my airplane out a the sky -- give me somethin a go on. This ain't no little thing that's happenin here."
and
"Later, that dozy embrace solidified in his memory as the single moment of artless, charmed happiness in their separate and difficult lives. Nothing marred it, even the knowledge that Ennis would not then embrace him face to face because he did not want to see nor feel that it was Jack he held. And maybe, he thought, they'd never got much farther than that."
I hope others can contribute more.
Also, I am hoping someone can explain this quote to me, which I have never fully understood.
"It was big enough, warm enough, and in a little while they deepened their intimacy considerably. Ennis ran full-throttle on all roads whether fence mending or money spending, and he wanted none of it when Jack seized his left hand..."
This occurs before they have sex for the first time, and always strikes me as somewhat incongruous (perhaps that is the point). I am not even clear on the literal meaning, is it suggesting Ennis lives life in the 'fast lane'?
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Well sorry if I do not start with a quote, coz I love the motel scene so much!!!
The room stank of semen and smoke and sweat and whiskey, of old carpet and sour
hay, saddle leather, shit and cheap soap. Ennis lay spread-eagled, spent and wet,
breathing deep, still half tumescent, Jack blowing forceful cigarette clouds like whale
spouts, and Jack said, "Christ, it got a be all that time a yours a horseback makes it so
goddamn good. We got to talk about this. Swear to god I didn't know we was goin a
get into this again -- yeah, I did. Why I'm here. I fu**in knew it. Redlined all the way,
couldn't get here fast enough."
"I didn't know where in the hell you was," said Ennis. "Four years. I about give up on
you. I figured you was sore about that punch."
[...]
Ennis pulled Jack's hand to his mouth, took a hit from the cigarette, exhaled. "Sure as
hell seem in one piece to me. You know, I was sittin up here all that time tryin to
figure out if I was -- ? I know I ain't. I mean here we both got wives and kids, right? I
like doin it with women, yeah, but Jesus H., ain't nothin like this. I never had no
thoughts a doin it with another guy except I sure wrang it out a hunderd times
thinkin about you. You do it with other guys? Jack?"
"Shit no," said Jack, who had been riding more than bulls, not rolling his own. "You
know that. Old Brokeback got us good and it sure ain't over. We got a work out what
the f*** we're goin a do now."
"That summer," said Ennis. "When we split up after we got paid out I had gut cramps
so bad I pulled over and tried to puke, thought I ate somethin bad at that place in
Dubois. Took me about a year a figure out it was that I shouldn't a let you out a my
sights. Too late then by a long, long while."
Ennis: "I used a want a boy for a kid," said Ennis, undoing buttons, "but just got little girls."
Jack: "I didn't want none a either kind," said Jack. "But f***-all has worked the way I
wanted. Nothin never come to my hand the right way."
Jack: "You know, friend, this is a goddamn bitch of a unsatisfactory situation. You used a
come away easy. It's like seein the pope now."
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"Come on, Ennis, you just shot my airplane out a the sky -- give me somethin a go on. This ain't no little thing that's happenin here."
I love this line .... I'm not sure why though. ???
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"It was big enough, warm enough, and in a little while they deepened their intimacy considerably. Ennis ran full-throttle on all roads whether fence mending or money spending, and he wanted none of it when Jack seized his left hand..."
This occurs before they have sex for the first time, and always strikes me as somewhat incongruous (perhaps that is the point). I am not even clear on the literal meaning, is it suggesting Ennis lives life in the 'fast lane'?
It means that Ennis took an "all or nothing" approach to life. If he did something, he went all the way. No coy hand-holding for Ennis; if he was going to have sex, he was going to do everything.
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"It was big enough, warm enough, and in a little while they deepened their intimacy considerably. Ennis ran full-throttle on all roads whether fence mending or money spending, and he wanted none of it when Jack seized his left hand..."
This occurs before they have sex for the first time, and always strikes me as somewhat incongruous (perhaps that is the point). I am not even clear on the literal meaning, is it suggesting Ennis lives life in the 'fast lane'?
It means that Ennis took an "all or nothing" approach to life. If he did something, he went all the way. No coy hand-holding for Ennis; if he was going to have sex, he was going to do everything.
Thanks! I have trouble understanding this one too ;) However, what's "he wanted none of it" mean?
Does "it" refer to "when jack seizing his left hand..."? If it does, then how come he "got to his knees" right after jerking away his hand?
In the movie, Ennis tried to resist and push Jack away, but I don't quite see it in the short story....
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It means that Ennis took an "all or nothing" approach to life. If he did something, he went all the way. No coy hand-holding for Ennis; if he was going to have sex, he was going to do everything.
Yes, this does make sense. However, I do not know how this fits in with the subsequent "Ennis jerked his hand away as though he'd touched fire" - this sounds to me as though he is so terrified by the notion of sex with Jack that he pulls his hand away as a reflex. I suppose this may be entirely intentional, to convey the confusing and conflicting feelings he is having: he wants Jack, but at the same time he is terrified of what might happen.
And how's this for a quote?
"His chest was heaving. He could smell Jack -- the intensely familiar odor of cigarettes, musky sweat and a faint sweetness like grass, and with it the rushing cold of the mountain."
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Those are amazing quotes.
"There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe, but nothing could be done about it, and if you can't fix it you've got to stand it."
My favorite quote from the short story, the last paragraph, because it sums up almost in its entirety why Ennis chose not to try to be with Jack, but you could also feel that raw emotion and love, and most of all regret felt by Ennis- that painful, stab in the chest kind of regret that has consumed us all at one point or another, and that has gotten a hold on Ennis and caused him to live everyday wanting that love he was so hasty to refuse and deny out of fear.
I love the way Annie Proulx writes, in an almost blunt yet powerful way that has underlying subtle meanings to the plotline and especially to her characters, that often takes a second looking-at to fully understand.
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Those are amazing quotes.
"There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe, but nothing could be done about it, and if you can't fix it you've got to stand it."
My favorite quote from the short story, the last paragraph, because it sums up almost in its entirety why Ennis chose not to try to be with Jack, but you could also feel that raw emotion and love, and most of all regret felt by Ennis- that painful, stab in the chest kind of regret that has consumed us all at one point or another, and that has gotten a hold on Ennis and caused him to live everyday wanting that love he was so hasty to refuse and deny out of fear.
I love the way Annie Proulx writes, in an almost blunt yet powerful way that has underlying subtle meanings to the plotline and especially to her characters, that often takes a second looking-at to fully understand.
jackchrisopher27, thanks for this great post. The quote is also one of my favorites. You are right about Annie Proulx writing. Every sentence she wrote needs to be digested.
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However, I do not know how this fits in with the subsequent "Ennis jerked his hand away as though he'd touched fire" - this sounds to me as though he is so terrified by the notion of sex with Jack that he pulls his hand away as a reflex. I suppose this may be entirely intentional, to convey the confusing and conflicting feelings he is having: he wants Jack, but at the same time he is terrified of what might happen.
Remember he was asleep when all of a sudden he is awoken by his hand being forced onto Jack's c*ck. In the film, there's a bit of resistance on Ennis's part as they begin to embrace, with Ennis pulling away just before it goes full-throttle.
He wanted none of it, yet couldn't fight it.
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Having seen the film twice now, I still can't tell if Jack utters the immortal "gun's goin off" while they're having sex that first time. They're both making plenty of noise, but maybe someone with the screenplay can enlighten...?
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Having seen the film twice now, I still can't tell if Jack utters the immortal "gun's goin off" while they're having sex that first time. They're both making plenty of noise, but maybe someone with the screenplay can enlighten...?
Sorry to disappoint you, Jack did not utter GGO.
From screenplay -
"The go at it in silence, except for a few sharp intakes of breath.
Ennis shudders.
Then out, down, as both fall asleep. "
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What's in the screenplay is not what's in the movie in this instance; Jack certainly does say, "Gun's going off" during the first sex scene in the tent. The dialogue clarity in this film depends greatly on the quality of the theatre sound system, and it might have been difficult to catch Jack's exact words where you saw it. But there are these three words in addition to grunts and heavy breathing.
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What's in the screenplay is not what's in the movie in this instance; Jack certainly does say, "Gun's going off" during the first sex scene in the tent. The dialogue clarity in this film depends greatly on the quality of the theatre sound system, and it might have been difficult to catch Jack's exact words where you saw it. But there are these three words in addition to grunts and heavy breathing.
Thanks for your input on this. Gun's going off" is not in the screenplay, as it is in the book. Like certain other dialog, what works in print does not necessarily work in real life (or on screen). Saying such a thing may have drawn laughter or some other unintended response from the audience. Certainly, had Ennis called Jack "Little Darlin'" people would have laughed and that was no laughing moment.
Jim
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Yeah...I heard some(or should I say... enough) giggling/snickering/laughing during my 2nd viewing...(more people that time). It'd really kill the moment if audience hears GGO and goes "BWhahaaaaa~~"...
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from the Story:
"That summer," said Ennis. "When we split up after we got paid out I had gut cramps so bad I pulled over and tried to puke, thought I ate somethin bad at that place in Dubois. Took me about a year a figure out it was that I shouldn't a let you out a my sights.
I would have love to have heard Ennis say this in the movie. It would have given Jack such a thrill !
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frog123 already quoted this, but it was buried within a much longer quote.
I just wanted to highlight it, because it tells in such an amusing way what
the writer wants us to understand about Ennis and Jack's sexual behavior:
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I like doin it with women, yeah, but Jesus H., ain't nothin like this. I never had no
thoughts a doin it with another guy except I sure wrang it out a hunderd times
thinkin about you. You do it with other guys? Jack?"
"Shit no," said Jack, who had been riding more than bulls, not rolling his own. "You
know that. Old Brokeback got us good and it sure ain't over.
------------------------------------------
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What's in the screenplay is not what's in the movie in this instance; Jack certainly does say, "Gun's going off" during the first sex scene in the tent. The dialogue clarity in this film depends greatly on the quality of the theatre sound system, and it might have been difficult to catch Jack's exact words where you saw it. But there are these three words in addition to grunts and heavy breathing.
Huh. I've certainly watched that scene enough times *slightly embarassed grin* but I've never heard the "gun's going off." Even with the volume up as high as it will go... Then again, I've been watching the DVD via my computer, which might have something to do with it...
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My favorite quote from the SS is in the first italicized part:
"He might have to stay with his married daughter until he picks up another job, yet he is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream."
It somehow makes me feel a tiny bit better to know that Ennis, in all his loneliness, still has a few moments of connection with Jack, even if it's only in his dreams. :'(
One of the saddest quotes: "...Ennis passed the country cemetery fenced with sagging sheep wire...and didn't want to know Jack was going in there, to be buried on the grieving plain."
camom
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My favorite quote from the SS is in the first italicized part:
"He might have to stay with his married daughter until he picks up another job, yet he is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream."
It somehow makes me feel a tiny bit better to know that Ennis, in all his loneliness, still has a few moments of connection with Jack, even if it's only in his dreams. :'(
One of the saddest quotes: "...Ennis passed the country cemetery fenced with sagging sheep wire...and didn't want to know Jack was going in there, to be buried on the grieving plain."
camom
I agree that is one of the saddest quotes. :'(
I like these:
What Jack remembered and craved in a way he could neither help nor
understand was the time that distant summer on Brokeback when Ennis had come
up behind him and pulled him close, the silent embrace satisfying some
shared and sexless hunger.
Later, that dozy embrace solidified in his memory as the single
moment of artless, charmed happiness in their separate and difficult lives.
Nothing marred it, even the knowledge that Ennis would not then embrace him
face to face because he did not want to see or feel that it was Jack he
held. And maybe, he thought, they'd never got much farther than that. Let
be, let be.
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from the Story:
"That summer," said Ennis. "When we split up after we got paid out I had gut cramps so bad I pulled over and tried to puke, thought I ate somethin bad at that place in Dubois. Took me about a year a figure out it was that I shouldn't a let you out a my sights.
I would have love to have heard Ennis say this in the movie. It would have given Jack such a thrill !
Yeah, I'd love to have heard that one in the movie too. It would have been such a sweet response to Jack's "What about you?" question in the motel scene - much better than the movie line of "Me? Ahdunno...", even though that line is accompanied by one of those oh-so-cute Ennis half smiles that hints at what he's really thinking...
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Certainly, had Ennis called Jack "Little Darlin'" people would have laughed and that was no laughing moment.
Jim
I'm actually very disappointed that they could not work that quote into the movie. All they would have needed is for Ennis to say the line 2 or 3 times to his horses and daughters. Then the line would be recognizable, and in the film, could be inserted right after Ennis throws Jack up against the wall and kisses him, and just before Jack returns the favor.
...and still they clinched, pressing chest and groin and thigh and leg together, treading on each other's toes until they pulled apart to breathe and Ennis, not big on endearments, said what he said to his horses and daughters, little darlin.
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Here's one of my favorite quotes from the story, especially the last line.
Around that time Jack began to appear in his dreams, Jack as he had first seen him, curly-headed and smiling and bucktoothed, talking about getting up off his pockets and into the control zone, but the can of beans with the spoon handle jutting out and balanced on the log was there as well, in a cartoon shape and lurid colors that gave the dreams a flavor of comic obscenity. The spoon handle was the kind that could be used as a tire iron. And he would wake sometimes in grief, sometimes with the old sense of joy and release; the pillow sometimes wet, sometimes the sheets.
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my favorite quote is the one that implies ennis virgnity on the book
Ennis ran full-throttle on all roads whether fence mending or money spending, and he wanted none of it when Jack seized his left hand and brought it to his erect c*ck. Ennis jerked away as thought he's touched fire, got to his kness, unbuckled his belt, shoved his pants down, hauled Jack onto all fours and, with the help othe clear slick and a little spit, entered him nothing he'd done before but no instruction manual needed....
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fave-fave passage as it evokes so much tenderness and melancholy and that transcendent state we're frozen in when we look at the world for the first time and realise its tremendous vastness and depth and myriad of colours glowing with the pulse of life, symbolic of all that which is beautiful (and can hurt) between two humans in this life:
They had stood that way for a long time in front of the fire, its burning tossing ruddy chunks of light, the shadow of their bodies a single column against the rock. The minutes ticked by from the round watch in Ennis's pocket, from the sticks in the fire settling into coals. Stars bit through the wavy heat layers above the fire. Ennis's breath came slow and quiet, he hummed, rocked a little in the sparklight and Jack leaned against the steady heartbeat, the vibrations of the humming like faint electricity and, standing, he fell into sleep that was not sleep but something else drowsy and tranced (...) Later, that dozy embrace solidified in his memory as the single moment of artless, charmed happiness in their separate and difficult lives.
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you broke my heart!!!!! :'( :'( :'(
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This passage from the book makes the tears come for me:
The shirt seemed heavy until he saw there was another shirt inside
it, the sleeves carefully worked down inside Jack's sleeves. It was his own
plaid shirt, lost, he'd thought, long ago in some damn laundry, his dirty
shirt, the pocket ripped, buttons missing, stolen by Jack and hidden here
inside Jack's own shirt, the pair like two skins, one inside the other, two
in one. He pressed his face into the fabric and breathed in slowly through
his mouth and nose, hoping for the faintest smoke and mountain sage and
salty sweet stink of Jack, but there was no real scent, only the memory of
it, the imagined power of Brokeback Mountain of which nothing was left but
what he held in his hands.
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"Ce que Jack gardait en mémoire et désirait désespérément, inexplicablement, retrouver, c'était ce moment, ce lointain été sur Brokeback Mountain où Ennis s'était approché par-derrière et l'avait attiré contre lui, l'étreinte muette qui avait apaisé un désir chaste et partagé."
"What Jack remembered and craved in a way he could neither help nor understand was the time that distant summer on Brokeback when Ennis had come up behind him and pulled him close, the silent embrace satisfying some shared and sexless hunger."
"Plus tard, cette étreinte ensommeillée s'était cristallisée dans son souvenir comme l'unique moment de bonheur naturel, miraculeux de leurs vies séparées et difficiles. Rien n'était venu le gâcher, pas même la certitude qu'Ennis ne l'aurait pas étreint de face, ce jour-là, parce qu'il ne voulait pas savoir ni sentir que c'était lui, Jack, qu'il tenait ainsi. Et peut-être, pensait-il, n'étaient-ils jamais allés vraiment plus loin. C'était comme ça. C'était comme ça."
"Later, that dozy embrace solidified in his memory as the single moment of artless, charmed happiness in their separate and difficult lives. Nothing marred it, even the knowledge that Ennis would not then embrace him face to face because he did not want to see nor feel that it was Jack he held. And maybe, he thought, they'd never got much farther than that. Let be, let be."
"La fenetre donnait sur le chemin de terre qui s'éloignait vers le Sud et il lui vint à l'esprit que, pendant toutes ses années de jeunesse, Jack n'avait pas connu d'autre route."
"The window looked down on the gravel road stretching south and it occurred to him that for his growing-up years that was the only road Jack knew."
"Jack, je te jure..." dit-il, bien que Jack ne lui êut jamais demandé de jurer quoi que ce soit, et que lui-même ne fût pas du genre à jurer.
C'est envrion à cette époque que Jack commença à apparaitre dans ses rêves, Jack tel qu'il l'avait vu la première fois, les cheveux bouclés, avec son sourire, ses dents en avant, parlant de se ranger des voitures, mais il y avais la boîte de haricots aussi, le manche de la cuilère qui en sortait, en équilibre sur un rondin, avec une forme et des couleurs de bande dessiné qui donnaient à ses rêves une atmosphère bizarrement obscène. Le manche de la cuillère ressemblait à un démonte-pneu. Il se réveillait tantôt plein de chagrin, tantôt avec la sensation de joie et d'apaisement qu'il avait connue autrefois; son oreiller parfois mouillé, parfois les draps.
Il y avais une espace incetain entre ce qu'il savait et ce qu'il voulait croire, mais il n'y pouvais rien, et quand on ne peut rien y faire il faut vivre avec."
"Jack, I swear — " he said, though Jack had never asked him to swear anything and was himself not the swearing kind.
Around that time Jack began to appear in his dreams, Jack as he had first seen him, curly-headed and smiling and bucktoothed, talking about getting up off his pockets and into the control zone, but the can of beans with the spoon handle jutting out and balanced on the log was there as well, in a cartoon shape and lurid colors that gave the dreams a flavor of comic obscenity. The spoon handle was the kind that could be used as a tire iron. And he would wake sometimes in grief, sometimes with the old sense of joy and release; the pillow sometimes wet, sometimes the sheets.
There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe, but nothing could be done about it, and if you can't fix it you've got to stand it."
And other of course... :-\
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'What Jack remembered and craved in a way he could neither help nor understand was the time that distant summer on Brokeback when Ennis had come up behind him and pulled him close, the silent embrace satisfying some shared and sexless hunger.
...
Nothing marred it, even the knowledge that Ennis would not then embrace him face to face because he did not want to see nor feel that it was Jack he held. And maybe, he thought, they'd never got much farther than that. Let be, let be.'
gets me every god damn time....here I go :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'(
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Nothing marred it, even the knowledge that Ennis would not then embrace him face to face because he did not want to see nor feel that it was Jack he held
There were quotes both in the story and movie that, for me, were a little difficult to understand. But the above quote made no sence to me at all.
Here we have two boys hugging and kissing. Book or movie doesn't say, but I don't think they only did it in the doggy position. Those things mean Jack and Ennis faced each other.
Why would Ennis, then, find it so difficult to face Jack to hug him? He has already been as intimate as two people can get, but he can't hug Jack from the front because he doesn't want to know it is another boy he is hugging? This makes no sense to me at all. Can anyone explain it to me?
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I don't have the book here but I was wondering if I remember correctly. In the book isn't Jack the one who says "this is a one shot thing we got going here" (or something like that) after their FNIT?
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I don't have the book here but I was wondering if I remember correctly. In the book isn't Jack the one who says "this is a one shot thing we got going here" (or something like that) after their FNIT?
No, Ennis says that Boo_Boo. Then Jack says, "It's nobody's business but ours."
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I don't have the book here but I was wondering if I remember correctly. In the book isn't Jack the one who says "this is a one shot thing we got going here" (or something like that) after their FNIT?
No, Ennis says that Boo_Boo. Then Jack says, "It's nobody's business but ours."
Okay. I thought I read in the book that Jack said it & I was wondering why they changed it in the movie. Thanks so much!
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Nothing marred it, even the knowledge that Ennis would not then embrace him face to face because he did not want to see nor feel that it was Jack he held
There were quotes both in the story and movie that, for me, were a little difficult to understand. But the above quote made no sence to me at all.
Here we have two boys hugging and kissing. Book or movie doesn't say, but I don't think they only did it in the doggy position. Those things mean Jack and Ennis faced each other.
Why would Ennis, then, find it so difficult to face Jack to hug him? He has already been as intimate as two people can get, but he can't hug Jack from the front because he doesn't want to know it is another boy he is hugging? This makes no sense to me at all. Can anyone explain it to me?
This confused me a bit, too. I think the conclusion I finally reached was that any other time they'd been (intimately) face-to-face were during moments of passion, when it didn't really matter that they were both boys. But this little scene is just an uninspired moment of tenderness, where Jack was half-asleep and Ennis wasn't really looking for anything beyond being able to hold Jack. That passage does still make me unhappy, though. Then again, Ennis in general makes me unhappy sometimes. Thinking more in-depth about this now, I guess this was sort of a big step for Ennis, just holding Jack when it wasn't really necessary, and that IS a big step for him...maybe facing Jack was too big of a step. Baby steps, baby steps...
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I don't have the book here but I was wondering if I remember correctly. In the book isn't Jack the one who says "this is a one shot thing we got going here" (or something like that) after their FNIT?
No, Ennis says that Boo_Boo. Then Jack says, "It's nobody's business but ours."
Not so Patriot1 - in the short story it's Jack who says it. I don't have my copy with me so apologies for the words being jumbled but it goes something like this...
"They never talked about the sex, let it happen, at first only in the tent at night then in the day with the hot sun beating down and in the evening by the fire, plenty of noises but never saying a goddamn word except once when Ennis said 'I ain't queer' and Jack replied quickly 'Neither am I. A one shot thing. Nobody's business but ours'"
Not sure why they changed this for the movie....
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I don't have the book here but I was wondering if I remember correctly. In the book isn't Jack the one who says "this is a one shot thing we got going here" (or something like that) after their FNIT?
No, Ennis says that Boo_Boo. Then Jack says, "It's nobody's business but ours."
Not so Patriot1 - in the short story it's Jack who says it. I don't have my copy with me so apologies for the words being jumbled but it goes something like this...
"They never talked about the sex, let it happen, at first only in the tent at night then in the day with the hot sun beating down and in the evening by the fire, plenty of noises but never saying a goddamn word except once when Ennis said 'I ain't queer' and Jack replied quickly 'Neither am I. A one shot thing. Nobody's business but ours'"
Not sure why they changed this for the movie....
Well I'll be dipped in honey and licked all over. You are correct NoReins. I looked at the screenplay not the story. Boo_Boo I am sorry I gave you wrong information. My Bad.
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I don't have the book here but I was wondering if I remember correctly. In the book isn't Jack the one who says "this is a one shot thing we got going here" (or something like that) after their FNIT?
No, Ennis says that Boo_Boo. Then Jack says, "It's nobody's business but ours."
Not so Patriot1 - in the short story it's Jack who says it. I don't have my copy with me so apologies for the words being jumbled but it goes something like this...
"They never talked about the sex, let it happen, at first only in the tent at night then in the day with the hot sun beating down and in the evening by the fire, plenty of noises but never saying a goddamn word except once when Ennis said 'I ain't queer' and Jack replied quickly 'Neither am I. A one shot thing. Nobody's business but ours'"
Not sure why they changed this for the movie....
Well I'll be dipped in honey and licked all over. You are correct NoReins. I looked at the screenplay not the story. Boo_Boo I am sorry I gave you wrong information. My Bad.
That's okay. I get the book & movie confused all the time! Was Jack just saying that to cover up his feelings for Ennis? That throws a whole different spin on the scene to me.
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Before I reply boo_boo, I think I should get the quote right now that I've got my copy of the story here...
They never talked about the sex, let it happen, at first only in the tent at night, then in the full daylight with the hot sun striking down, and at evening in the fire glow, quick, rough, laughing and snorting, no lack of noises, but saying not a goddamn word except once Ennis said "I'm not no queer", and Jack jumped in with "Me neither. A one-shot thing. Nobody's business but ours"
I think the key phrase (and the reason I felt I should reproduce the quote properly) is "Jack jumped in". I think that Jack was trying to make Ennis relax about what was happening, knowing that Ennis was still very unsure and edgy about their relationship, knowing that if he (Jack) said he was queer then Ennis would most likely back off completely. Even though the words come out of different mouths in the movie, this feeling is still the same - watch Jake's face when he says the "Me neither" line because he plays it to perfection, responding quickly then flashing a quick glance at Ennis to see if he's picked up on the lie.
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Before I reply boo_boo, I think I should get the quote right now that I've got my copy of the story here...
They never talked about the sex, let it happen, at first only in the tent at night, then in the full daylight with the hot sun striking down, and at evening in the fire glow, quick, rough, laughing and snorting, no lack of noises, but saying not a goddamn word except once Ennis said "I'm not no queer", and Jack jumped in with "Me neither. A one-shot thing. Nobody's business but ours"
I think the key phrase (and the reason I felt I should reproduce the quote properly) is "Jack jumped in". I think that Jack was trying to make Ennis relax about what was happening, knowing that Ennis was still very unsure and edgy about their relationship, knowing that if he (Jack) said he was queer then Ennis would most likely back off completely. Even though the words come out of different mouths in the movie, this feeling is still the same - watch Jake's face when he says the "Me neither" line because he plays it to perfection, responding quickly then flashing a quick glance at Ennis to see if he's picked up on the lie.
I can see that. I was trying to wrap my brain around why the book had Jack saying it but the movie had Ennis saying it.
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I can see that. I was trying to wrap my brain around why the book had Jack saying it but the movie had Ennis saying it.
Yeah, I've wondered about that too. I think it's maybe something to do with not wanting to lead with the "I ain't queer" line? Like, a need to show the audience that there were feelings there that couldn't be denied, despite them "not being queer". Said this way round, it seems to me that it's more of an "I'm attracted to you, you're attracted to me, there's something there, but we're not queer" whereas the other way round it's "I'm not queer, you're not queer, but we're doing this anyway"....and I'm thinking the distinction is between feelings/emotions/love and just sex for the sake of it ('cos there's no-one else there)?
I dunno.....
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I can see that. I was trying to wrap my brain around why the book had Jack saying it but the movie had Ennis saying it.
Yeah, I've wondered about that too. I think it's maybe something to do with not wanting to lead with the "I ain't queer" line? Like, a need to show the audience that there were feelings there that couldn't be denied, despite them "not being queer". Said this way round, it seems to me that it's more of an "I'm attracted to you, you're attracted to me, there's something there, but we're not queer" whereas the other way round it's "I'm not queer, you're not queer, but we're doing this anyway"....and I'm thinking the distinction is between feelings/emotions/love and just sex for the sake of it ('cos there's no-one else there)?
I dunno.....
I never thought of it that way but that totally makes sense.
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fave-fave passage as it evokes so much tenderness and melancholy and that transcendent state we're frozen in when we look at the world for the first time and realise its tremendous vastness and depth and myriad of colours glowing with the pulse of life, symbolic of all that which is beautiful (and can hurt) between two humans in this life:
They had stood that way for a long time in front of the fire, its burning tossing ruddy chunks of light, the shadow of their bodies a single column against the rock. The minutes ticked by from the round watch in Ennis's pocket, from the sticks in the fire settling into coals. Stars bit through the wavy heat layers above the fire. Ennis's breath came slow and quiet, he hummed, rocked a little in the sparklight and Jack leaned against the steady heartbeat, the vibrations of the humming like faint electricity and, standing, he fell into sleep that was not sleep but something else drowsy and tranced (...) Later, that dozy embrace solidified in his memory as the single moment of artless, charmed happiness in their separate and difficult lives.
perfect, simply perfect
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i agree perfect
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i think she did that to get us ready for the big sex scene maybe
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Thanks so much for this topic.
I come from Italy and so I knew only the italian version of the short story.
It's exciting read part of the original one.
<^(
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"Later, that dozy embrace solidified in his memory as the single moment of artless, charmed happiness in their separate and difficult lives. Nothing marred it, even the knowledge that Ennis would not then embrace him face to face because he did not want to see nor feel that it was Jack he held. And maybe, he thought, they'd never got much farther than that."
Hi! This is not my favourite, but it's really interesting... I just don't know what this means... ~) I've read it both in spanish and english but it is the same, what interpretation do you give to this?
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Hi! This is not my favourite, but it's really interesting... I just don't know what this means... ~) I've read it both in spanish and english but it is the same, what interpretation do you give to this?
I think maybe it means that Ennis couldn't come to terms with his sexuality and he was always kind of at odds with himself. I think it took Jack's death and finding the shirts for him to really understand how much he had lost and how much he really did love Jack. Sadly, by then it was too late.
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I agree with rimasworld. I think it refers to Ennis' inner struggle with his sexuality and the truth that what they had together was not just some "thing" that grabbed hold of them but was actually a real relationship of love and affection and he'd always been taught that such a thing was wrong, wrong enough even to get a man killed. So in that passage Jack is reflecting about how holding him from behind might have been eaiser for Ennis because, at least for small moments, he might be able to forget that it was a man he held that way.
Here's a thought. Was that really how Ennis felt (as in was that the reason he preferred to hold Jack from behind) or was that simply Jack's interpretation? Maybe Ennis just liked the feel of holding Jack in his arms in a way that allowed Jack to lean back into him or maybe he liked the way they fit together in that position. Or maybe it was because he couldn't bear to look the truth face on. Who knows? Just throwing that nugget out there for contemplation.... :c)