Brokeback Mountain Forum @ ennisjack.com
The Movie & Story => Characters, Quotes & Scenes => Topic started by: Toadily on Jan 07, 2006, 01:23 AM
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It looks like from the script that Jack was trying to pick him up, or there was some of that in his intent, and there is a note in the script that Jack leaves looking around nervously after he is blown off. and then someone was suggesting
that maybe he went with Lureen after that to prove himself, and hide. What do you think?
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Thanks for bringing this up. I think Jack was trying to pick him up. But lets take this a step further....When the Rodeo Clown left the bar and went to the other guys at the pool table....they seemed to be talking....was it just bullshitting or were they talking about Jack?
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well I just was thinking about when the clown walked back to the pool table....either they were bullshitting about stuff...or talking about Jack...open for discussion I guess
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well I just was thinking about when the clown walked back to the pool table....either they were bullshitting about stuff...or talking about Jack...open for discussion I guess
Yeah it makes sense, he saw them talking, and even though Jack was more comfortable with his
orientation than Ennis it was still 1960something and he wasn't going to exactly be out there, so that would
fit that Lureen comes along pretty quick after.
Ok, it fits, Ang Lee said something to the effect that Jack "went along with the marriage"
something like that.
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Toad....so my question still remains....when the clown walked back ...was he talking about Jack. The reason I'm wondering...was this the prelude to a possible murder...
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Remember too at the final confrontation scene between Ennis and Jack, Ennis says something like
there are things in Mexico for "boys like you" to Jack and it's like he is stating he knows Jack is gay, while
in denial himself or thinking that he Ennis is only attracted to Jack and no other men (thus he calls it
"this thing" between them) I don't know it's like he can't accept that Jack is more gay and Jack kind of knows
this and finally just says "hell yes I have been to Mexico", like he is finally just coming out and being himself.
Unfortunately the world wasn't ready and he got killed for it.
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Toad....so my question still remains....when the clown walked back ...was he talking about Jack. The reason I'm wondering...was this the prelude to a possible murder...
I don't think it's a prelude to the murder, I just think it shows the need to hide in a marriage.
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don't want to bog down the forum ...just sent you a private message
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It looks like from the script that Jack was trying to pick him up, or there was some of that in his intent, and there is a note in the script that Jack leaves looking around nervously after he is blown off. and then someone was suggesting
that maybe he went with Lureen after that to prove himself, and hide. What do you think?
Correct me if I am wrong. I thought the rodeo clown scene and later Jack met Lureen happened at different time?
I do think that Jack was trying to pick up the rodeo clown - somehow the rodeo clown looks *gay* to me according to my gaydar. ;)
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Did you notice that the setting for Jack's attempt to pick up Jimbo the clown was basically a "sausage party"? There was literally 1 woman in that whole bar full of cowboys. (maybe a 2nd) . In the next bar on the circuit, (where Lureen picks up Jack) there are plenty of women, but not in the Jimbo bar.
I mean where is a horny cowpoke like Jack ;) supposed to bury the sausage if there are no sausage buns around? (Well I guess there are some sausage buns around, they are just sporting mustaches ;) )
PS: On your next viewing get a look at the hunk cowboy standing to the right of Jimbo at the pool table. This film is loaded with hunky extras who are hanging out in the bars, and on the dance floors.
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Yeah, I think he was definitely trying to pick him up and after the rodeo clown shut him down, I'm pretty sure he went and told his friends that "that cowboy was a little queer" so maybe that was why Jack left the bar.
Also, I want to call attention to the bartender. When he said "maybe you should try roping calves" or whatever was that a double entendre?
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Yes I think that "ever think of roping calves" was a point, in the script the stage direction
to that line is the bartender has "seen it all". I mean it may be that Jack was just missing
Ennis, it's hard to tell, but it shows in contrast to Brokeback, his interest in a male isn't going to be
unnoticed (or so he thought)
I think he meets Lureen pretty quick after that. It all fits now.
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I also thought that Jack had figured out that the clown was a closet case (he did appear as a closet case to me). I also thought that Jack, though pissed off, decided he better leave before the scene got ugly.
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I am paraphrasing some more knowledgable posters on the IMDB board for this film, but apparently the bartender's comment was aimed at Jack's attempt to pick up Jimbo the rodeo clown - the suggestion of the comment being that Jack ought to try with a man with less experience, a younger and naive person.
Jack, angry over being shut down and having the bartender notice his (attempt? failure? who knows?), determines to answer the bartender literally with the "do I look like I can afford a ropin horse?" and stomps off in his anger (and/or fear?).
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I feel that Jack was genuinely flattered by the attention he got from Lureen, and he might have considered her as a sort of trophy (she being very good-looking and relatively well-to-do.)
I had a feeling that there was some genuine love in Jack for Lureen, but he was disillusioned early on by his inlaws treating him as an outsider, and by Lureen's overt concern for the family business.
It is no question that the great love of Jack's life was Ennis. Jack loved Ennis completely, it seemed -- loved him more than his own son and wife.
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After seeing it for the 5th time, I noted this scene better:
The rodeo clown was uncomfortable/put off by Jack coming over and Jack also smiles him sort of enigmatically, the guy then leaves,and when he, the rodeo clown spoke to the guys at the pool talbe, they gathered closer to him and then a couple looked right at Jack, Jack was aware of this. He was sort of found out, when Jack leaves one of the guys with Rodeo clown looks at him as he leaves, they *know*.
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???
I'd like to hear what others out there think about the Jack/Jimbo the rodeo clown bar scene.
It appears to me that Jack is trying to pick Jimbo up (?) and Jimbo is having none of that. But, I'm wondering if HE (jimbo) is gay and is either not hanging with what he considers the riff raff ("if I let every bull rider buy me a drink...) and is holding out for a better offer .... OR is he being super machismo because he too is in denial of his sexuality??? He walks over to a group of pretty macho type men who are playing pool... Or is there a secret in that corner too?
What do others think about this scene?
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There's a thread here about it.
Yes Jack was trying to pick him up.
It's significant scene cause note after Jimbo leaves uncomfortably he does tell the other macho guys. They look at Jack.
It's obvious Jack doesnt have the freedom of the Mountain anymore.He is at risk of being an outcast, Lureen shows up and the
setting is there for his marriage.
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ah! I did not catch Jimbo telling the others! Of course, now it makes sense. I guess I was so stuck on thinking Jimbo was gay it wasn't making sense. I thought Jack left just because he was rebuffed, but I get it now. Thanks!!!
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ah! I did not catch Jimbo telling the others! Of course, now it makes sense. I guess I was so stuck on thinking Jimbo was gay it wasn't making sense. I thought Jack left just because he was rebuffed, but I get it now. Thanks!!!
Yeah when you see it again and you will note it. He walks back to the pool table and starts to talk the men gather around him. it's obvious what
is going on, Jack then leaves angry and nervous. He is sort of found out. In the script they note that the bartender has "seen it all" when he suggests to Jack he learn calf roping.
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Upon my next viewing, I'll pay close attention to this scene. I got the feeling that when Jack offers to buy Jimbo's beer, that there is an initial interest on Jimbo's part. Just a second of "hmmmm, who is this" and then he sees who it is and loses interest. I don't know if that's true or not, but am looking forward to viewing the scene again. Yeah, my gaydar was ringing with Jimbo.
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Upon my next viewing, I'll pay close attention to this scene. I got the feeling that when Jack offers to buy Jimbo's beer, that there is an initial interest on Jimbo's part. Just a second of "hmmmm, who is this" and then he sees who it is and loses interest. I don't know if that's true or not, but am looking forward to viewing the scene again. Yeah, my gaydar was ringing with Jimbo.
Thought so too!
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Upon my next viewing, I'll pay close attention to this scene. I got the feeling that when Jack offers to buy Jimbo's beer, that there is an initial interest on Jimbo's part. Just a second of "hmmmm, who is this" and then he sees who it is and loses interest. I don't know if that's true or not, but am looking forward to viewing the scene again. Yeah, my gaydar was ringing with Jimbo.
Maybe he is another repressed "Ennis"...
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I am paraphrasing some more knowledgable posters on the IMDB board for this film, but apparently the bartender's comment was aimed at Jack's attempt to pick up Jimbo the rodeo clown - the suggestion of the comment being that Jack ought to try with a man with less experience, a younger and naive person.
Jack, angry over being shut down and having the bartender notice his (attempt? failure? who knows?), determines to answer the bartender literally with the "do I look like I can afford a ropin horse?" and stomps off in his anger (and/or fear?).
Yes, I think Jack is pretty angry because of the bartender sarcastic comment, that emphasizes his incapacity of roping anyone in,
especially Ennis, of course
who he literally caught with the lasso , without succes, on their last day at brokeback
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By the way the (horrible) italian translation of the dialogue is more explicit:
Bartender: Why don't you try with the lasso?
Jack: Do I look like one who has to pray someone?l
So maybe I'm inluenced by that...
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Upon my next viewing, I'll pay close attention to this scene. I got the feeling that when Jack offers to buy Jimbo's beer, that there is an initial interest on Jimbo's part. Just a second of "hmmmm, who is this" and then he sees who it is and loses interest. I don't know if that's true or not, but am looking forward to viewing the scene again. Yeah, my gaydar was ringing with Jimbo.
I'm not exactly sure if there was initial interest but you can see the exact moment in Jacks eyes when he flirts...that is when Jimbo gets all bent out of shape. If by then Jack had any sort of reputation on the rodeo circuit it makes sense that Jimbo had to cover his own butt with the other guys. Regardless, Jimbo sent the gaydar into high gear! He is as gay as I am. ;D ;D ;D
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I had a feeling that there was some genuine love in Jack for Lureen, but he was disillusioned early on by his inlaws treating him as an outsider, and by Lureen's overt concern for the family business.
Yes, I hate it when LD keeps calling Jack, Rodeo Boy, as if to remind him that's he is poor then and now :(
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I had a feeling that there was some genuine love in Jack for Lureen, but he was disillusioned early on by his inlaws treating him as an outsider, and by Lureen's overt concern for the family business.
Yes, I hate it when LD keeps calling Jack, Rodeo Boy, as if to remind him that's he is poor then and now :(
I think he just called Jack "Rodeo" which I found hilarious for some reason...
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I am paraphrasing some more knowledgable posters on the IMDB board for this film, but apparently the bartender's comment was aimed at Jack's attempt to pick up Jimbo the rodeo clown - the suggestion of the comment being that Jack ought to try with a man with less experience, a younger and naive person.
Jack, angry over being shut down and having the bartender notice his (attempt? failure? who knows?), determines to answer the bartender literally with the "do I look like I can afford a ropin horse?" and stomps off in his anger (and/or fear?).
The bartender may have meant his comment just as literally, seeing as how Jimbo rebuffed Jack and walked over to the group of calf ropers. Seems to me that the bartender is just trying to tell Jack he might have a little higher status/more success picking up guys like Jimbo if he were a calf roper.
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Rodeo clown approach was in some ways a depiction of Jack's gay tendency, for what you haven't seen yet, is that when Jack leaves the bar, the Rodeo cowboys and the guy's at the pool table are making their way out and when Jack tries to go to his truck they block his way and make fun of Him. the scene was edited for the released version. They are 40 minutes missing from the original cut
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Rodeo clown approach was in some ways a depiction of Jack's gay tendency, for what you haven't seen yet, is that when Jack leaves the bar, the Rodeo cowboys and the guy's at the pool table are making their way out and when Jack tries to go to his truck they block his way and make fun of Him. the scene was edited for the released version. They are 40 minutes missing from the original cut
Oh, interesting! I can easily see this happening. How did you find out about this, frenchcda? Is it in the story-to-screenplay book? I need to get that.
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Rodeo clown approach was in some ways a depiction of Jack's gay tendency, for what you haven't seen yet, is that when Jack leaves the bar, the Rodeo cowboys and the guy's at the pool table are making their way out and when Jack tries to go to his truck they block his way and make fun of Him. the scene was edited for the released version. They are 40 minutes missing from the original cut
Where did you get this from? Is there something you have not told us???
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That does sound really interesting. Sometimes I find it difficult though, to incorporate all the "might have beens". Maybe we can think of it as parallel versions: The book, the screenplay, the deleted scenes. And let the movie itself stand as the beautiful work of art it is. I would even say: Maybe Ang Lee (who, remember, said in the Charlie Rose Interview that his favourite place was the editing room, and the most important for the final product) wanted the scene to be more ambigous and therefore cut out the cowboys in the parking lot. Maybe he wanted us to experience Jacks uncertainty about the situation. Wanted us to envision what it must be like to always have to be careful, unclear, in fear and doubt. I think the final version depicted just that, and brilliantly!
monicita
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Yes. AND, I'd rather not see that edited-off scene. It's quite painful to watch.
(No, it's not in the "from book to screenplay" book)
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Rodeo clown approach was in some ways a depiction of Jack's gay tendency, for what you haven't seen yet, is that when Jack leaves the bar, the Rodeo cowboys and the guy's at the pool table are making their way out and when Jack tries to go to his truck they block his way and make fun of Him. the scene was edited for the released version. They are 40 minutes missing from the original cut
Where did you get this from? Is there something you have not told us???
search here: http://www.davecullen.com/brokebackmountain/
it was trough that site that I got my info anf it redirected me to other site where the info was blogged in!
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hi everyone
i dont remember the guys back at the pool table looking back at jack when the rodeo clown joined them after rebuffing jack... and i specifically remember looking for that to happen... i only saw the movie once, so i may have missed it, but i like the fact that the scene was ambiguous... "who, besides jack was gay? and who may have even known jacks intentions?"
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i dont remember the guys back at the pool table looking back at jack when the rodeo clown joined them after rebuffing jack... and i specifically remember looking for that to happen... i only saw the movie once, so i may have missed it, but i like the fact that the scene was ambiguous... "who, besides jack was gay? and who may have even known jacks intentions?"
When the clown walked away from Jack and walked over to the pool table he made a gesture with his thumb pointing toward Jack. The four people around the pool table (3 men and a woman) gathered around the clown to hear what he was saying giving me the impression he was talking softly. I don't think he was saying, 'For a good time go and see that guy at the bar.' However, none of the four people at the pool table looked in Jack's direction.
What amazed me was how openly Jack cruised him and how he stared at the clown as he walked away and over to the pool table. Anyone watching him would have picked up on that in a second. And the bartender did.
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i've seen people stare at each other after a confrontation...
anyway, you confirm my recollection that NONE of the guys at the pool table turned to look at jack... clearly, though, we were all expecting the rodeo clown to talk about jack to them, but i think it was brilliant that ang lee did not have any of them look over to jack so as to keep the whole "what did he say to the pool players" question ambiguous
thanks for your reply
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i've seen people stare at each other after a confrontation...
So have I but this wasn't an angry stare...this was a "check out them bunz!!!" stare. ;D ;D
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Yes, I thought that Jack was trying to pick-up the rodeo clown Jimbo.
I did see Jimbo walk back to the fella's in the back, and it did look like he made a gesture with his thumb back in Jack's direction (not really a clear shot)...but I didn't see that group of men actually looking back/staring at Jack. They just gathered around Jimbo and seemed to be interested in what he was saying.
A rebuke like this one probably takes place a million times in bars. The bartender probably has seen it happen a million times already. In my opinion, his remark to Jack about calf ropin' was not meant so much as a smartass, smartalecky remark, but more as a way to 'soften' Jimbo's refusal of Jacks approach, sort of a way to quickly "change the subject" to something more neutral...("Let's start talkin' bout rodeo again...")
Jack's sharp answer in that biting tone to the calf ropin' question from the bartender, seemed to me at least, a direct result of his embarassment of having being witnessed (by said bartender) trying to pick-up Jimbo, and then having been flatly refused...
I don't think he was expecting that...he seemed quite 'startled' by Jimbo's rebuke.
hehe...and yes, MY gaydar went a ringin' too, whenever Jimbo was in shot... (I liked him...thought he was mighty nice lookin'! :P)
I found it quite strange too, that the bar was mainly filled with only men...a man's domain? No women allowed? ???
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I found it quite strange too, that the bar was mainly filled with only men...a man's domain? No women allowed? ???
;D Believe it or not, not too many years ago in the State of Connecticut there were "Men's Bars". No women were allowed. There were signs on the outside that plainly said "MEN'S BAR".
When the law was changed and women were allowed go go into the bar, they were not permitted to get any closer than 3 feet from the bar. In this case I mean the actual bar where you sit.
It has been a long time since I have been in Connecticut so I am not sure if the laws have changed or not. It has become such a liberal State I would guess those laws no longer exist.
Now, having said all that, one of the people playing pool was a woman.
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I found it quite strange too, that the bar was mainly filled with only men...a man's domain? No women allowed? ???
;D Believe it or not, not too many years ago in the State of Connecticut there were "Men's Bars". No women were allowed. There were signs on the outside that plainly said "MEN'S BAR".
When the law was changed and women were allowed go go into the bar, they were not permitted to get any closer than 3 feet from the bar. In this case I mean the actual bar where you sit.
It has been a long time since I have been in Connecticut so I am not sure if the laws have changed or not. It has become such a liberal State I would guess those laws no longer exist.
Now, having said all that, one of the people playing pool was a woman.
I never saw one of "those" bars when I was in Connecticut...but hmmm...then again...it might have been coz I was not "out" yet...hehe...
Moving now completely off topic: I also once heard that there was a "Man's" bar where a urinal was built right into the bar itself...along the customer side of the bar...that way, one could just keep on drinking without ever having to make a pitstop to the restroom...
Kinda like: Jest keep on chuggin' and jest whip 'it out and let it go at the bar cowboy!! ;D
I forget. I think that bar was in Texas somewheres. I saw a picture of the actual bar with urinal! I think that it's now a museum piece...
Sorry, I hope that I haven't offended anyone by bringing this up...
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;D Believe it or not, not too many years ago in the State of Connecticut there were "Men's Bars". No women were allowed. There were signs on the outside that plainly said "MEN'S BAR".
I never saw one of "those" bars when I was in Connecticut...but hmmm...then again...it might have been coz I was not "out" yet...hehe...
It wasn't a gay bar Sam. Women were just not allowed in bars. They could go into taverns and cocktail lounges but not bars. Best I can remember it was back in the late 60's the law changed to allow women into a bar.
I also once heard that there was a "Man's" bar where a urinal was built right into the bar itself...along the customer side of the bar... ;D
You know, I think I heard about that bar...or one like it. Doesn't seem to be the kind of bar I would frequent; especially seeing I don't drink. I think people would wonder why I came there when all I drink is Diet Pepsi. To check out the scenery?!
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I always laugh when I see Jack try to pick up the rodeo clown in that bar....
Now, if the clown was gay, there is no reason he would not have tried to hook up with gorgeous studly, bull-riding masculine Jack.. But for the clown to rudely refuse a beer like that is hilarious. Earlier the clown was all dolled up in his hideous garish make-up, rainbow suspenders, bright red stockings, glad rags over a demin skirt and suddenly HE'S too good to accept a beer from Jack who is being friendly? Jack is NOT an screaming queen making a lurid pass, hello.
I didn't buy the clown's reaction at all.
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I always laugh when I see Jack try to pick up the rodeo clown in that bar....
Now, if the clown was gay, there is no reason he would not have tried to hook up with gorgeous studly, bull-riding masculine Jack.. But for the clown to rudely refuse a beer like that is hilarious. Earlier the clown was all dolled up in his hideous garish make-up, rainbow suspenders, bright red stockings, glad rags over a demin skirt and suddenly HE'S too good to accept a beer from Jack who is being friendly? Jack is NOT an screaming queen making a lurid pass, hello.
I didn't buy the clown's reaction at all.
I didn't buy it either. I mean come on, who turns down free beer? Even if I was completely straight I would have taken the beer and just walked away from him.
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I always laugh when I see Jack try to pick up the rodeo clown in that bar....
Now, if the clown was gay, there is no reason he would not have tried to hook up with gorgeous studly, bull-riding masculine Jack.. But for the clown to rudely refuse a beer like that is hilarious. Earlier the clown was all dolled up in his hideous garish make-up, rainbow suspenders, bright red stockings, glad rags over a demin skirt and suddenly HE'S too good to accept a beer from Jack who is being friendly? Jack is NOT an screaming queen making a lurid pass, hello.
I didn't buy the clown's reaction at all.
I didn't buy it either. I mean come on, who turns down free beer? Even if I was completely straight I would have taken the beer and just walked away from him.
I think the clown did seem to initially want to accept the offer. But the screenplay notes that there was a certain frisson in Jack's look that made him uncomforatable. It was then that he decided to decline the offer of a free beer.
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I always laugh when I see Jack try to pick up the rodeo clown in that bar....
Now, if the clown was gay, there is no reason he would not have tried to hook up with gorgeous studly, bull-riding masculine Jack.. But for the clown to rudely refuse a beer like that is hilarious. Earlier the clown was all dolled up in his hideous garish make-up, rainbow suspenders, bright red stockings, glad rags over a demin skirt and suddenly HE'S too good to accept a beer from Jack who is being friendly? Jack is NOT an screaming queen making a lurid pass, hello.
I didn't buy the clown's reaction at all.
I didn't buy it either. I mean come on, who turns down free beer? Even if I was completely straight I would have taken the beer and just walked away from him.
I think the clown did seem to initially want to accept the offer. But the screenplay notes that there was a certain frisson in Jack's look that made him uncomforatable. It was then that he decided to decline the offer of a free beer.
Okay, he made him feel uncomfortable. I've been in that situation... I still took the beer, though. Maybe the rodeo clown had more money than I do.
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Okay, he made him feel uncomfortable. I've been in that situation... I still took the beer, though. Maybe the rodeo clown had more money than I do.
bram, your objections are certainly valid/understandable. I guess it depends on just how good the beer was. ;)
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Okay, he made him feel uncomfortable. I've been in that situation... I still took the beer, though. Maybe the rodeo clown had more money than I do.
bram, your objections are certainly valid/understandable. I guess it depends on just how good the beer was. ;)
I think he just didn't like beer as much as I do. I once shared three pitchers and a two step with a creepy guy who kept trying to grope me. He paid for the beer, so it was all good. He was pretty pissed when I went straight home without doing anything else with him, though.
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Okay, he made him feel uncomfortable. I've been in that situation... I still took the beer, though. Maybe the rodeo clown had more money than I do.
bram, your objections are certainly valid/understandable. I guess it depends on just how good the beer was. ;)
I think he just didn't like beer as much as I do. I once shared three pitchers and a two step with a creepy guy who kept trying to grope me. He paid for the beer, so it was all good. He was pretty pissed when I went straight home without doing anything else with him, though.
bram, the rodeo clown should have learned a thing or two from you. :)
Well, he should have known better! But at least he payed for reasonably good beer. I would expect he was a man of some taste -- creepy or not!
Thanks. :)
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Is it possible the rodeo clown wasn't a gold digger?
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Is it possible the rodeo clown wasn't a gold digger?
Hi Patriot1. Interesting question. I really don't know. He probably was not. :)
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I think that rodeo clown was embarassed more becuase of Jack look, expecially the second time he looked him, which speaks more and more then any world....
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I was sort of looking forward to the clown part of the movie because of what the screenplay says about him: "The RODEO CLOWN, a young man with something of the college athlete about him,. . ."
My mind had already pictured a young handsome man with a nice build, but . . . we got Jimbo instead. ;D ;D
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bram, the rodeo clown should have learned a thing or two from you. :)
Well, he should have known better! But at least he payed for reasonably good beer. I would expect he was a man of some taste -- creepy or not!
Thanks. :)
I'm really not a gold digger. I didn't realize that story made me sound like one until after patiot brought it my attention. When I first started taking the beer, I didn't know what he wanted. My friend had met him the night before and we thought he was into her. I played along after he started hitting on me, because my friend liked him and wanted to stay. I should have told him that I was uninterested.
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bram, the rodeo clown should have learned a thing or two from you. :)
Well, he should have known better! But at least he payed for reasonably good beer. I would expect he was a man of some taste -- creepy or not!
Thanks. :)
I'm really not a gold digger. I didn't realize that story made me sound like one until after patiot brought it my attention. When I first started taking the beer, I didn't know what he wanted. My friend had met him the night before and we thought he was into her. I played along after he started hitting on me, because my friend liked him and wanted to stay. I should have told him that I was uninterested.
bram, situations at a bar can be so ambiguous and signs and representations are easily misinterpreted or given more meaning than is intended.
For a person like myself who no longer frequents bars, it is sometimes easy for me to forget this. :)
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bram, the rodeo clown should have learned a thing or two from you. :)
Well, he should have known better! But at least he payed for reasonably good beer. I would expect he was a man of some taste -- creepy or not!
Thanks. :)
I'm really not a gold digger. I didn't realize that story made me sound like one until after patiot brought it my attention. When I first started taking the beer, I didn't know what he wanted. My friend had met him the night before and we thought he was into her. I played along after he started hitting on me, because my friend liked him and wanted to stay. I should have told him that I was uninterested.
bram, situations at a bar can be so ambiguous and signs and representations are easily misinterpreted or given more meaning than is intended.
For a person like myself who no longer frequents bars, it is sometimes easy for me to forget this. :)
I just don't want you guys to think I'm a bad person. I like talking on here with you, and I really do care about your opinion.
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bram, I certainly understand. Peace. :)