Brokeback Mountain Forum @ ennisjack.com
The Movie & Story => Characters, Quotes & Scenes => Topic started by: Sitaram on Jan 21, 2006, 08:23 PM
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I dutifuly did a search of the forum on "opener" to see if there are any posts addressing this.
As an adolescent, in the 1960s, I remember a corny joke: "What do you call a drink with vodka and prune juice?" Answer: "A can opener."
Jack has such a wry expression when he says that he is a poor cook, but is pretty good with a "can opener".
What is the agenda, if any, behind such a remark?
For years I was a vegetarian, before old age and health problems forced me to eat meat. My stepson one day brought home a fellow highschool student whom I knew was openly gay (but he did not know that I know.) Somehow the topic of vegetarianism came up. I asked him, "Do you eat mean?" He answered, with a wry smirk, "Sometimes."
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Oh, yes, Jack very much was being sly with this phrase. He was not talking about kitchen appliances! He was bragging that he was good in the sack... to prove it, look at the scene that follows: he is on his back opening a can of beens and he splashes him self. He is NOT good with can opener... or at least one kind.... hehehehe
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So true, there is a hidden meaning to that remark. He's AWFUL with a can opener, it was more Jack saying. I can't cook worth a ****, but I'm pretty good in bed, just like you said! Great one!!
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So true, there is a hidden meaning to that remark. He's AWFUL with a can opener, it was more Jack saying. I can't cook worth a ****, but I'm pretty good in bed, just like you said! Great one!!
omg that is so true it was his way to flirt with ennis again!!! i'm laughing right now
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I can't watch the scene now without laughing. Not that I didn't before, but now it has new meaning :)
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he is on his back opening a can of beens and he splashes him self. He is NOT good with can opener... or at least one kind.... hehehehe
but isn't he distracted by Ennis who is undressing :-))
and
telling him that he shot a wolf (something Jack has failed to do)
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Ooh nice!! That could be what it is too. The idea of Ennis being right there, shirtless, could have his concentration totally off, thus opening the can was not working so well for him at the moment!! Never thought of it like that!!
Ann :)
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I don't see this as anything more than Jack being Jack. First he makes a bragging joke, after saying he can't cook worth a damn, that he's pretty good with a can opener. Thats like saying "I don't ride bulls well but I have the whole gravity thing worked out. I always fall downward." Perfectly in character for Jack.
Then when we later see him not working the can opener well, I think that was a matter of him going about it in a foolish way...lying on his back, opening the can almost overhanded on top of his chest. Poor lovable goofball can't even do that right. Again, classic Jack.
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Thanks Sitaram and all the others!!
I didn't realise about the "hidden" meaning of this scene, but now that you have explained it... this movie is never going to stop surprising me :o
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What a way to flirt !!!! Go Jack !!
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omg i'm still surprised by Jack how he flirted to and unknowing of the situation Ennis who never got any of the hidden flirts!!!!!
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omg i'm still surprised by Jack how he flirted to and unknowing of the situation Ennis who never got any of the hidden flirts!!!!!
I doubt Ennis was used to having a bloke flirt with him. He probably didn't even realise it.
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i agree with you
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I just see that whole scene of Jack flirting. No matter what Ennis says about not minding trading places, Jack has something to say. Like "not the point, we should both be here" Jack always has something to rebutt what Ennis says. I just think it's Jack flirting, through and through! Such a cute scene!!
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i agree with you
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Mmm, I like this thread. Just found it. That hint of flirting does come across in this scene, specially as he says that line. It floats from his eyes damn near like heat waves :i
Thanks for the good opener, Sitaram.
:c)
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There was a childish tinge when he said that line -- did any of you get the same impression? Certainly an element of "play". The fact that he couldn't cook didn't seem to faze him. I ask myself sometimes: what good would that skill do if you can't cook? :)
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Well, tpe, if he can't cook but can open a can then he can at least spill the beans. ;D
I think he does this in more ways than one ;)
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Well, tpe, if he can't cook but can open a can then he can at least spill the beans. ;D
I think he does this in more ways than one ;)
Well, that other scene also seemed to suggest that he wasn't that good with a can opener either. ;)
But we can forgive him -- he was SO distracted at that moment!
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Well, that other scene also seemed to suggest that he wasn't that good with a can opener either. ;)
But we can forgive him -- he was SO distracted at that moment!
Exactly. ;)
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Exactly. ;)
Let's just say that cooking dinner was probably the furthest from his mind at that moment... ;)
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Yes. :s)
I wonder though, could Ennis have picked up on this even subconsciously and tripped a mechanism of some sort? Not that this is unheard of his character. He is quick to insist trading though, not leaving much a bridge at all for any more vibes to come across.
I see so much a front from Ennis, maybe even especially leading up to and during this scene. My initial feeling is that he sensed something more than what was stated, even though he seemed like such an empty shell.
Jack though, oh yeah, he was looking to play the opener ;)
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Yes. :s)
I wonder though, could Ennis have picked up on this even subconsciously and tripped a mechanism of some sort? Not that this is unheard of his character. He is quick to insist trading though, not leaving much a bridge at all for any more vibes to come across.
I see so much a front from Ennis, maybe even especially leading up to and during this scene. My initial feeling is that he sensed something more than what was stated, even though he seemed like such an empty shell.
Jack though, oh yeah, he was looking to play the opener ;)
Ennis looked innocent enough in this scene. But yes, I wonder whether Ennis sort of detected Jack's discomfort. In fact, I suspect sometimes that Ennis deliberately wanted it to happen... Perhaps he wasn't so innocent in this particular scene...
Did this happen often -- both of them washing practically in front of the other?
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Ennis looked innocent enough in this scene. But yes, I wonder whether Ennis sort of detected Jack's discomfort. In fact, I suspect sometimes that Ennis deliberately wanted it to happen... Perhaps he wasn't so innocent in this particular scene...
Did this happen often -- both of them washing practically in front of the other?
Washing? If by that you mean underlying vibes, then I think it was echoed up until the nights in the tent.
Or if I think of Ennis washing his goods way back in the corner of Jack's eye, then.. well I think I see the same play on each other's space and curiosity.. as well as their own.
What are your thoughts?
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I think there was a sense of provocation -- if not outright. I personally think that Jack definitely wanted less boundaries when it comes to physical/provate spaces. Notice his attempts to try to get himself to be with Ennis at night in camp...
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I think there was a sense of provocation -- if not outright. I personally think that Jack definitely wanted less boundaries when it comes to physical/provate spaces. Notice his attempts to try to get himself to be with Ennis at night in camp...
I quote :)
This is how I probably came to relate and sympathize with each character, even though Ennis took longer for me in the long run. I think that's the beauty of the story, that the narrative was so unbiased and heartbreaking. Unsentimental, yet as personal and as deep as it may ever get.
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. . . I think that's the beauty of the story, that the narrative was so unbiased and heartbreaking. Unsentimental, yet as personal and as deep as it may ever get.
Really well put OT. Pretty good summary of the whole BBM experience in my book.
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I think there was a sense of provocation -- if not outright. I personally think that Jack definitely wanted less boundaries when it comes to physical/provate spaces. Notice his attempts to try to get himself to be with Ennis at night in camp...
i just found out about this thread... ^f^
and another new thing in english... "open a can".. and how that changes that scene to me.. it's incredible.. ::)
i always wondered ...
as you rightly all say here..
i mean it wasn't just jack taking ennis' hand and ennis jumping at him.. without ANY built of tension before, going on for some time.. there MUST have been a hinting, gazes, maybe small touches, a play with words, like this one...
well well still learning new things about BBM... ;)
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I quote :)
This is how I probably came to relate and sympathize with each character, even though Ennis took longer for me in the long run. I think that's the beauty of the story, that the narrative was so unbiased and heartbreaking. Unsentimental, yet as personal and as deep as it may ever get.
And the can-opener scene is emblematic of what you say about the character -- he is approachable and "faulty" in a way that calls our sympathy and affection. It is the GENTLENESS of Jack (free of any sentimentality and self-pity) that we love -- and together with it is a gentle humor that we do see in this very scene.
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i just found out about this thread... ^f^
and another new thing in english... "open a can".. and how that changes that scene to me.. it's incredible.. ::)
i always wondered ...
as you rightly all say here..
i mean it wasn't just jack taking ennis' hand and ennis jumping at him.. without ANY built of tension before, going on for some time.. there MUST have been a hinting, gazes, maybe small touches, a play with words, like this one...
well well still learning new things about BBM... ;)
The attempt of Jack to be a good camp-tender does seem to echo those innocent/unaffected games that we as children play -- am I correct? There is an innocence in the attempt to please and do good for the sake of the one he loves. The can opener scene certainly hints at all this.
And yes, we are still learning. :)
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And the can-opener scene is emblematic of what you say about the character -- he is approachable and "faulty" in a way that calls our sympathy and affection. It is the GENTLENESS of Jack (free of any sentimentality and self-pity) that we love -- and together with it is a gentle humor that we do see in this very scene.
True, that's Jack. On the other hand there's Ennis, a stoic. There are layers there, and although it takes longer we eventually find he's just as awfully human, don't we?
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True, that's Jack. On the other hand there's Ennis, a stoic. There are layers there, and although it takes longer we eventually find he's just as awfully human, don't we?
Stoicism is by nature not gentle; nor is it even "human", in the sense of vulnerability. Stoicism has an almost superhuman quality to it -- and hence, a sense of aloofness. If there is anything the can opener scene tells us, it is that Jack is never aloof.
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Stoicism is by nature not gentle; nor is it even "human", in the sense of vulnerability. Stoicism has an almost superhuman quality to it -- and hence, a sense of aloofness. If there is anything the can opener scene tells us, it is that Jack is never aloof.
Well I also see Jack using his can opener on Ennis. Of course.. not literally. But it's a start.
Which I think, for me, is partly how 20 years of Jack led Ennis to quite a reflection in the closet. He indeed looks a smidget vulnerable from that point on especially, no? Before Jack, would we have seen him stand before something like two shirts with tears in his eyes? I do think we see a very human Ennis there in his trailer, whereas before we saw first the stoic.
I even go as far as to wonder what Ennis' reaction to the dead sheep would have been had there been no sex with Jack beforehand. What's up with that?
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Well I also see Jack using his can opener on Ennis. Of course.. not literally. But it's a start.
Which I think, for me, is partly how 20 years of Jack led Ennis to quite a reflection in the closet. He indeed looks a smidget vulnerable from that point on especially, no? Before Jack, would we have seen him stand before something like two shirts with tears in his eyes? I do think we see a very human Ennis there in his trailer, whereas before we saw first the stoic.
I even go as far as to wonder what Ennis' reaction to the dead sheep would have been had there been no sex with Jack beforehand. What's up with that?
You imply that the can opener is a metaphor. And I love that. :)
How apt it is that you bring this out. I had not thought about this before, and I must say that I am impressed...
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You imply that the can opener is a metaphor. And I love that. :)
How apt it is that you bring this out. I had not thought about this before, and I must say that I am impressed...
Thanks, tpe. Those can openers do come in handy. :)
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Thanks for the new insights, guys. I just thought that Jack was so distracted by Ennis' stripping that he almost spilled the beans. Never thought he might be braggin' on his prowess. I think Ennis was much more upset about the sheep because he stayed w/ Jack that night onstead of guarding the sheep. He felt like it wss his fault.
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Thanks, orangetruck.
And thanks also, atalley. You know, I do agree that a large part of Jack's clumsiness in that scene had to do with his being distracted by Ennis stripping in front of him. In fact, I think this also explains why in the next scene, I also feel on edge. We see Jack peeling potatos, while trying to look clam as Ennis washes himself in the background. I get the feeling that he might cut himself accidentally, because it was clear that his mind was focused elsewhere.
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I thought the scene of Jack with the potato peeler was brilliant on his part...his two small gulps magnified into a deep frustration...so little movement but it told it all in spades...
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I thought the scene of Jack with the potato peeler was brilliant on his part...his two small gulps magnified into a deep frustration...so little movement but it told it all in spades...
Exactly. Well, I would even go further and say that then two small gulps magnified into deep desire or hunger...
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Oh, yes, Jack very much was being sly with this phrase. He was not talking about kitchen appliances! He was bragging that he was good in the sack... to prove it, look at the scene that follows: he is on his back opening a can of beens and he splashes him self. He is NOT good with can opener... or at least one kind.... hehehehe
I never saw it that way but now that you mention it, it kind of makes sense. Seeing that the conversation of 'going to hell' comes next...I wonder if Ennis caught the meaning behind his words...
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I never saw it that way but now that you mention it, it kind of makes sense. Seeing that the conversation of 'going to hell' comes next...I wonder if Ennis caught the meaning behind his words...
Probably not, but who knows? Ennis is inscrutable...
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Thanks for the new insights, guys. I just thought that Jack was so distracted by Ennis' stripping that he almost spilled the beans. Never thought he might be braggin' on his prowess. I think Ennis was much more upset about the sheep because he stayed w/ Jack that night onstead of guarding the sheep. He felt like it wss his fault.
It might have been on this forum, or somewhere else, but I read that the sheep's death was symbolizing something. That it was signifying that that's what happens when you 'stray' from the flock. He might have felt that it was his fault, but I think that maybe it also reinforced his past with the death of that one guy. He strayed when he let himself go with Jack, and upon seeing the dead sheep, he realized that if they totally went through with it then one of them would end up dead... Sadly it was his fears that caused their fate... :(
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It might have been on this forum, or somewhere else, but I read that the sheep's death was symbolizing something. That it was signifying that that's what happens when you 'stray' from the flock. He might have felt that it was his fault, but I think that maybe it also reinforced his past with the death of that one guy. He strayed when he let himself go with Jack, and upon seeing the dead sheep, he realized that if they totally went through with it then one of them would end up dead... Sadly it was his fears that caused their fate... :(
This could be symbolic! I mean the dead sheep. :s)
On the other side, it didn't bother Ennis too much, cos the same night he enter the tent and made love to Jack! ::)
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It might have been on this forum, or somewhere else, but I read that the sheep's death was symbolizing something. That it was signifying that that's what happens when you 'stray' from the flock. He might have felt that it was his fault, but I think that maybe it also reinforced his past with the death of that one guy. He strayed when he let himself go with Jack, and upon seeing the dead sheep, he realized that if they totally went through with it then one of them would end up dead... Sadly it was his fears that caused their fate... :(
Yeah, baby. I'm sure other forums have discussed this too, but here we did it a lot. Lots of brokies share that take on the dead sheep scene....Me too. I think that Ennis thought about Earl in a ditch when he saw the sheep. Lots of bad things happen when you do something that is wrong.....like having sex with a man.....And sure Ennis thought that it was his fault. Ennis felt guilty all his life because of what he was doing with Jack....That's why the shirts scene is so meaningful and important: Ennis quit feeling guilty and ashamed of his feelings for Jack, and found out the joy of love and being loved....even if that was a bit too late...and that's when the guilt turned into regret, when he realized that he could have had all and he lost it because of his fears.... :\'( :\'(
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It might have been on this forum, or somewhere else, but I read that the sheep's death was symbolizing something. That it was signifying that that's what happens when you 'stray' from the flock. He might have felt that it was his fault, but I think that maybe it also reinforced his past with the death of that one guy. He strayed when he let himself go with Jack, and upon seeing the dead sheep, he realized that if they totally went through with it then one of them would end up dead... Sadly it was his fears that caused their fate... :(
This could be symbolic! I mean the dead sheep. :s)
On the other side, it didn't bother Ennis too much, cos the same night he enter the tent and made love to Jack! ::)
Yeah, baby. I'm sure other forums have discussed this too, but here we did it a lot. Lots of brokies share that take on the dead sheep scene....Me too. I think that Ennis thought about Earl in a ditch when he saw the sheep. Lots of bad things happen when you do something that is wrong.....like having sex with a man.....And sure Ennis thought that it was his fault. Ennis felt guilty all his life because of what he was doing with Jack....That's why the shirts scene is so meaningful and important: Ennis quit feeling guilty and ashamed of his feelings for Jack, and found out the joy of love and being loved....even if that was a bit too late...and that's when the guilt turned into regret, when he realized that he could have had all and he lost it because of his fears.... :\'( :\'(
There is a whole thread about the symbolism of the dead sheep, FYI. :)
http://www.ennisjack.com/index.php?topic=1225.0
Also related:
http://www.ennisjack.com/index.php?topic=1565.0