Brokeback Mountain Forum @ ennisjack.com
The Movie & Story => Characters, Quotes & Scenes => Topic started by: Toadily on Jan 22, 2006, 03:06 PM
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Ok,, I have seen it a lot now so I might notice stuff that is more than the average, but how did
Jack know that Ennis lived in Riverton when he moved there at least a year after Brokeback?
And thus mail him the card general delivery there?
Remember when Alma asks Ennis if they can move years earlier cause there's a place in Riverton? I suppose the
little ranch lived on could have technically been in Riverton but the implication in what Alma said is that
it was a different town..
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If you find someone badly enough... You find away.
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I think Ennis and Alma married and lived in Riverton. Alma just wanted to move "to town", right?
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But still, Jack must have been looking, right? I mean four years! If he had thought that he knew where Ennis was before that he would surely have tracked him down earlier. He goes back to Brokeback Mountain the nest summer and asks Arly if he has heard from Ennis, so he's hunting for his man. Would almost have to be desperate for any information to go that far. Maybe, ...suppose that Ennis had let Alma's maiden name of Beers be known to Jack. Then, he would have had more to go on. Still, I wouldn't have left without full information, verified! Heck. I would never have let him out of my sight the first, second, or third place.
I love these guys! Wish I could hug them both. Wish I could counsel them, we all could counsel them!!!
Jim
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If you find someone badly enough... You find away.
Sorry... that should have read... "If you WANT TO find someone badly enough... You find a way."
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If you find someone badly enough... You find away.
Sorry... that should have read... "If you WANT TO find someone badly enough... You find a way."
Your point was clear and you are right!
:)
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I am a bit embarressed cause picking at this is trekkie-ish but in the script Alma says there is a little place "in Riverton" seems if you lived in Riverton you would just call it town. But anyways, who cares, he found him, maybe he asked around.
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I think I know the answer ... I grew up in that area of the country. We didn't have addresses. Believe it or not, the postal worker knew where everyone lived - i.e. General Delivery - if you know where this person lives, please deliver. When the area grew a little, a second postal worker was hired, and then we got addresses - Route 1 or Route 2. I think was brillant for Jake to take the shot gun approach to locate his soul mate. I think it was probably one of the many cards he wrote. One for every post office in the state. We would have done the same.
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I think I know the answer ... I grew up in that area of the country. We didn't have addresses. Believe it or not, the postal worker knew where everyone lived - i.e. General Delivery - if you know where this person lives, please deliver. When the area grew a little, a second postal worker was hired, and then we got addresses - Route 1 or Route 2. I think was brillant for Jake to take the shot gun approach to locate his soul mate. I think it was probably one of the many cards he wrote. One for every post office in the state. We would have done the same.
You're right. Alma did say the post card came General Delivery, didn't she. I have a nephew in southeastern Kentucky, everything I send to him is sent to his name, care of general delivery, county name and zip code. So, I guess this works in rural areas, but don't try it in San Francisco.
thanks for the insight...
Jim
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Toadily, thanks for expanding my understanding of the story!
Jack went back to Joe Aguirre not to find work, but to find Ennis. I think the movie makes that clear.
I never realized until now that Jack spent four years searching for Ennis.
Wow.
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I never realized until now that Jack spent four years searching for Ennis.
OMG! I completely missed that. That, in itself, shows the depth of Jack's feelings for Ennis. When he told Ennis, "I wish I knew how to quit you," he knew, in his heart, that it was hopeless. He could NEVER quit Ennis. *sniff*
~Jack & Ennis Forever~
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I never realized until now that Jack spent four years searching for Ennis.
OMG! I completely missed that. That, in itself, shows the depth of Jack's feelings for Ennis. When he told Ennis, "I wish I knew how to quit you," he knew, in his heart, that it was hopeless. He could NEVER quit Ennis. *sniff*
~Jack & Ennis Forever~
Oh Yeah!
~Jack & Ennis Forever~
~Jack & Ennis Forever~
~Jack & Ennis Forever~
~Jack & Ennis Forever~
You got it, Apollonos
Jim
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Which is the base behind Ennis's not wanting to "live" together. Everyone knows everyone in these rural areas. I live in an urban area where it seems that everyone knows someone who knows someone in your family. Very few degrees of separation here.
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Does the short story tell that Jack looked for Ennis? We can agree that Ennis would not track down Jack. How do we know Jack had to search for Ennis?
Ennis discusses "marrying Alma when he gets down off the mountain," and they both discussed different towns from their past while on BBM---why wouldn't they discuss where each other would live? Didn't Jack's Postcard say he was coming through Riverton...the card didn't question where Ennis lived..I do not know. Also, in the motel scene, Ennis refers to Jack's four year absence due to being "being sore from that punch"..they don't discuss how difficult it was to find one another... I think Ang or McMurtry would have addressed the searching aspect. Don't know...
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Here's what the story says:
"The fourth summer since BBM came on and in June Ennis had a general delivery letter from Jack Twist, the first sign of life in all that time."
Then the text of the letter as it appears in the story says, "Heard you was in Riverton."
Then when Ennis writes his 'You bet' response back, he gives his full address in Riverton.
So somehow Jack found out, but it makes no mention of how. I even read through their conversation in the hotel, and he doesn't say.
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Thanks for the info! That helps..I wonder who Jack heard from??
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If you find someone badly enough... You find away.
I'd wondered too. Don't mean to be unromantic, but the book and screenplay are very abbreviated, by design, so we shouldn't expect answers to all the logitical questions. I expect round the campfire, many nites on Brokeback, their details were discussed, same few details, again and again with whiskey to add interest. Jack had a pretty good idea how to find Ennis if he wanted. Heck, I've found old pals again in *Chicago* whose addresses I didn't have. Phone call or two ... ask round the bars ...
I personally think Jack only started looking for Ennis late in the four year gap. He'd been busy, as had Ennis. Then the need could not be denied or pushed out of the way after all the action of a marriage, a baby, joining Lureen's family, new job, had subsided a tad.
But Annie and Ang Lee leave *much* for us to fill in, as best fits our interpretation. In that sense we're *all* right, whether Jack spent four years looking or four days. Besides, I think they were not admitting their feelings very overtly in the early days. In the book Ennis says it was a year before he realised why he retched and felt so bad after they parted. *We* know it was because they were parting. He hadn't done this kind of thing before! -- and as men of that time they didn't think to be too affected. That totally insufficient goodbye after starting the dusty pickup really pissed me off ... and still does
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If you find someone badly enough... You find away.
I'd wondered too. Don't mean to be unromantic, but the book and screenplay are very abbreviated, by design, so we shouldn't expect answers to all the logitical questions. I expect round the campfire, many nites on Brokeback, their details were discussed, same few details, again and again with whiskey to add interest. Jack had a pretty good idea how to find Ennis if he wanted. Heck, I've found old pals again in *Chicago* whose addresses I didn't have. Phone call or two ... ask round the bars ...
I personally think Jack only started looking for Ennis late in the four year gap. He'd been busy, as had Ennis. Then the need could not be denied or pushed out of the way after all the action of a marriage, a baby, joining Lureen's family, new job, had subsided a tad.
But Annie and Ang Lee leave *much* for us to fill in, as best fits our interpretation. In that sense we're *all* right, whether Jack spent four years looking or four days. Besides, I think they were not admitting their feelings very overtly in the early days. In the book Ennis says it was a year before he realised why he retched and felt so bad after they parted. *We* know it was because they were parting. He hadn't done this kind of thing before! -- and as men of that time they didn't think to be too affected. That totally insufficient goodbye after starting the dusty pickup really pissed me off ... and still does
jason, very beautifully said. :)
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If you find someone badly enough... You find away.
I'd wondered too. Don't mean to be unromantic, but the book and screenplay are very abbreviated, by design, so we shouldn't expect answers to all the logitical questions. I expect round the campfire, many nites on Brokeback, their details were discussed, same few details, again and again with whiskey to add interest. Jack had a pretty good idea how to find Ennis if he wanted. Heck, I've found old pals again in *Chicago* whose addresses I didn't have. Phone call or two ... ask round the bars ...
.......
jason, very beautifully said. :)
An aside: tpe, I was rereading the screenplay again at lunch and came to the first Aguirre visit, where he tells Jack that Jack's Uncle Harold has pneumonia, and his mom asked that the message be taken to Jack.
Mrs Twist calls Aguirre near Brokeback from Lightining Flat, where she had gotten a call about Uncle Harold who could be anywhere, like Casper.
I think the bush telegraph as we call it, operates with even greater ease in country places where there are so few people, by a combo of phones, bar talk and the post office. So I think finding stay-at-home Ennis (in a towns within a small radius) was doable for Jack. Which is why I don't think he was looking too hard, except when he went to try for work a second time. Jack finds Ennis later after the divorce by asking around, as he himself says. Made it sound like a hell of a task LOL.
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An aside: tpe, I was rereading the screenplay again at lunch and came to the first Aguirre visit, where he tells Jack that Jack's Uncle Harold has pneumonia, and his mom asked that the message be taken to Jack.
Mrs Twist calls Aguirre near Brokeback from Lightining Flat, where she had gotten a call about Uncle Harold who could be anywhere, like Casper.
I think the bush telegraph as we call it, operates with even greater ease in country places where there are so few people, by a combo of phones, bar talk and the post office. So I think finding stay-at-home Ennis (in a towns within a small radius) was doable for Jack. Which is why I don't think he was looking too hard, except when he went to try for work a second time. Jack finds Ennis later after the divorce by asking around, as he himself says. Made it sound like a hell of a task LOL.
jason, yes, I also remember the part when Jack visits Ennis after the divorce. Jack said that he had to ask 10 people to find Ennis at his new address outside of Riverton.
This is an good example of how more tightly knit a small town like Riverton was -- probably expected of many small towns out in the country, where people rely on each other a bit more.
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Toadily, thanks for expanding my understanding of the story!
Jack went back to Joe Aguirre not to find work, but to find Ennis. I think the movie makes that clear.
I never realized until now that Jack spent four years searching for Ennis.
Wow.
It's for these reasons that I found Jack Twist's situation so heartwrenching. He consistently goes after Jack. Driving up all the way from Texas to Wyoming to get with him. When Jack makes the trek, after Ennis is divorced, and gets back in his truck deeply disappointed for he would not be spending time with Ennis, I cried along with him.
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I had to ask my mother about this one. She said that General Delivery was usually a last ditch effort to find someone. My mother was a telephone operator in the 50's and she said that Ennis probably didn't have a phone because even then Operators had telephone books from all over the world for reference. There were also a lot of cross reference books depending on information such as steady employment and family members etc. and finding an address wasn't terribly hard if given enough information. It was not unlike searching someone on the internet today. They just had to use hard copies from the research library. Finding transient people was next to impossible, however. Records weren't updated quickly.
That is why it wasn't easy to find Ennis and probably why it took so long. Apparently General Delivery only works in small towns and rural areas where there is a chance that the post master could match up a name with an address. I thought this was an interesting and accurate tidbit of history since Ennis calls from a pay telephone on the street.
So it seems that General Delivery is a last ditch effort to find someone. The last hope. A message in a bottle with a five cent stamp. Now doesn't that make you want to cry??? It's killing me.
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Back in the 60s there was no fear of identity theft or anything like that... and people in general, everywhere, were much more open and trusting... so finding someone was far, far easier. I remember once calling a Boston post office trying to track down an old friend, I had only his (very old) address. I told the postman the name and the old address, and said honestly I'm trying to track him down, and the postman just looked the friend up, gave me the new address, simple as that. I can picture Jack phoning around a few post offices in the general area of Riverton, simply asking "do you know an Ennis Delmar?" and eventually finding out, yes, he lives here... heck, the postman probably said "hell yeah, him and his missus live over the laundrymat" Jack: "what's the address? i'd like to send him a card" Postman: "don't worry, just write 'Ennis Delmar, General Delivery, Riverton, Wyoming' and it'll get to him."
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Something I noticed when I was watching my DVD. When Ennis answered Jack's postcard with "You bet", Ennis had just put his return address as Ennis Del Mar, Riverton, WY...how did Jack know where he lived? Donna
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Got it from the Post Office worker. There is another great film in addition to BBM which references General Delivery..that is the great Maltese Falcon. A lady just sends a post card to a man in San Francisco addressed to General Delivery! Great films think alike. &**)
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If you find someone badly enough... You find away.
I'd wondered too. Don't mean to be unromantic, but the book and screenplay are very abbreviated, by design, so we shouldn't expect answers to all the logitical questions. I expect round the campfire, many nites on Brokeback, their details were discussed, same few details, again and again with whiskey to add interest. Jack had a pretty good idea how to find Ennis if he wanted. Heck, I've found old pals again in *Chicago* whose addresses I didn't have. Phone call or two ... ask round the bars ...
I personally think Jack only started looking for Ennis late in the four year gap. He'd been busy, as had Ennis. Then the need could not be denied or pushed out of the way after all the action of a marriage, a baby, joining Lureen's family, new job, had subsided a tad.
But Annie and Ang Lee leave *much* for us to fill in, as best fits our interpretation. In that sense we're *all* right, whether Jack spent four years looking or four days. Besides, I think they were not admitting their feelings very overtly in the early days. In the book Ennis says it was a year before he realised why he retched and felt so bad after they parted. *We* know it was because they were parting. He hadn't done this kind of thing before! -- and as men of that time they didn't think to be too affected. That totally insufficient goodbye after starting the dusty pickup really pissed me off ... and still does
Jason, I agree with you. I don't think Jack went looking for Ennis seriously until late in the four years. I think after he went back to Aguirre's office the next summer and found out Ennis had not shown up, he tried to move on with his life, thinking Ennis wanted it that way. Hence, Jack goes to Texas for rodeoing, flirts with the rodeo clown, and tries to make a life with Lureen. But Jack's heart keeps calling him back to Ennis, especially when he knows he doesn't fit in or belong with Lureen and her folks. I tend to agree with the theory that Jack sent many postcards general delivery around Wyoming hoping he would find Ennis.
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Although, I'm not American and do not know the American way of thinking, I do agree with 'stacp'. If I were Jack, I would be disappointed to find out that Ennis didin't show up. Jack may think that 'Ok, Ennis has no interest in me... so I try to get back on track. I will live my life without him.' However, Jack can't stop thinking of Ennis especially when he is not happy with life. Yes... I do too, thinking of my first love when I've got a fight with my current b/f. >:D
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IApparentlyf Jack tried to get on with a non-Ennis life, rodeoing, meeting Lureen, getting married, having a son - it was after that that he found he still had nothing of what he really wanted. In the movie it seems that feeling dates from the time when LD and his plastic wife exclude him from their visit to their daughter and her new baby. The family he thought was his turns out to be one that doesn't include him, so he turns back to the only person he's ever loved. If you have a strong enough motivation, you can find someone - Wyoming is a big state, but there are a limited number of plausible places for Ennis to live. Jack also knows where Ennis's sister and brother live, for starters, he and Ennis foiund the job with Aguirre via the same agency, and it's true that in the past f you asked questions people just answered them, without suspecting you of trying to steal thier identity - it's not that long ago that if you were expecting someone you could ring the airline, check they were on a particular flight and see if it had landed - can't do that now.
In reality how Jack heard that Ennis was in Riverton doesn't matter - it demands, like other details, " a willing suspension of disbelief" - he found him, and that's all.
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Didn't Jack's Postcard say he was coming through Riverton...
I thought it was particularly clear that "passing through" was a ruse. If things didn't pick up again, he'd have a few drinks and pretend to go on his way to where he was going (back to Texas). If things picked back up, then it wouldn't matter that he'd lied about his reasons for being in Riverton. He admitted that he "redlined" it to Riverton and then all but begged (in the book) that Ennis go away with him given that Ennis had just "shot [his] airplane outta the sky".
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I thought it was particularly clear that "passing through" was a ruse. If things didn't pick up again, he'd have a few drinks and pretend to go on his way to where he was going (back to Texas). If things picked back up, then it wouldn't matter that he'd lied about his reasons for being in Riverton. He admitted that he "redlined" it to Riverton and then all but begged (in the book) that Ennis go away with him given that Ennis had just "shot [his] airplane outta the sky".
Yes, I feel the same way. At that point, Jack would have made any excuse to re-establish contact with Ennis.
In spite of his own hopes, I think that Jack didn't expect the intensity of his reception. After that, the ruse really didn't seem to matter...
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Yes, I feel the same way. At that point, Jack would have made any excuse to re-establish contact with Ennis.
In spite of his own hopes, I think that Jack didn't expect the intensity of his reception. After that, the ruse really didn't seem to matter...
Yes,I agree in that too...The excuse was the least important,if this meant an approachment to Ennis.However,I also agree in that Jack didn't expect having such a passionate and warm reception on Ennis side,even if he surely had dreamt about this many times.
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Yes,I agree in that too...The excuse was the least important,if this meant an approachment to Ennis.However,I also agree in that Jack didn't expect having such a passionate and warm reception on Ennis side,even if he surely had dreamt about this many times.
He must have expected a reasonable chance of a warm reception, given all the trouble he must have gone through locating Ennis and driving all the way from Texas.
In fact, I really feel that Jack really didn't have any other purpose being in Wyoming but to try to hook up with Ennis. Jack's parents up at LF would have been convenient as an excuse -- and in case Ennis's reception was not to his liking. He could have just gone on to LF had things not worked out. In any case, one would have expected him to bring Bobby (and perhaps Lureen) to meet his folks, if that was indeed a reason for going up to Wyoming.
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Of course,I suppose that the only purpose Jack had by travelling to Riverton is trying to obtain "something" of Ennis.He liked to take risks so,as we say here,"he already had the no,so he was going to look for the yes"...In spite of this,I keep on thinking that this reception was a surprise for him; and a revelation too,because in this way he knew for sure that the men he loved,loved him back...
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Risks Jack certainly did take. But no matter how calculating Jack was regarding the reunion, I also feel that Ennis's reception went way beyond his wildest calculations. I even imagine a more careful and calculated "seduction"... But clearly, Ennis was in no need of such a thing. We're a "long" way off from FNIT...
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Risks Jack certainly did take. But no matter how calculating Jack was regarding the reunion, I also feel that Ennis's reception went way beyond his wildest calculations. I even imagine a more careful and calculated "seduction"... But clearly, Ennis was in no need of such a thing. We're a "long" way off from FNIT...
Yes,it's true; I also had imagined a seduction,more or less long and elaborated,by Jack's side.But in this case,it's also true the phrase"in the distance,love grows"...
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Yes,it's true; I also had imagined a seduction,more or less long and elaborated,by Jack's side.But in this case,it's also true the phrase"in the distance,love grows"...
And time and distance makes all too clear how we all truly feel -- no matter how much we would want to suppress it.
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And time and distance makes all too clear how we all truly feel -- no matter how much we would want to suppress it.
Time and distance,as in Ennis after four years of separation.But also,unluckily,being before what has already no solution-as in Ennis after Jack's death-makes us realise how we all truly feel.With a strenght greater than when there was still a possibility more of the times;Ennis denied himself,Jack and their love so many times,to realise that "this thing" was love when there was too late to tell Jack it was time to change and face the truth... :\'(
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Nonetheless, the new beginning in Riverton seemed so full of promise and hope -- especially to Jack, who probably didn't know what to exacpet, after the 4 years when so much had happened to the 2 of them. Ennis's reception was like a promise -- a promise that Jack tried to coax into realization for the next 20 years or so...
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Nonetheless, the new beginning in Riverton seemed so full of promise and hope -- especially to Jack, who probably didn't know what to exacpet, after the 4 years when so much had happened to the 2 of them. Ennis's reception was like a promise -- a promise that Jack tried to coax into realization for the next 20 years or so...
and ennis' reception also sealed his own fate so to speak, a silent declaration of devotion that could never let jack completely go again.
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That's true. It's a pity that the grip of fear kept the promise in abeyance for the remainder of Jack's life. Is it coincidence that the last words we heard from Ennis in the movie is a promise?
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A promise that,unluckily,he was never able to keep being Jack alive; and less still,to say out loud.Maybe,he was never able to realise the power of the feelings that made him express this promise.
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That's true. It's a pity that the grip of fear kept the promise in abeyance for the remainder of Jack's life. Is it coincidence that the last words we heard from Ennis in the movie is a promise?
ennis saying that promise to the self made shrine for his jack. trying to give him something in death he was never able to in life. was that promise to always be faithful until ennis himself died? guess that's up to every one's interpretation.
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ennis saying that promise to the self made shrine for his jack. trying to give him something in death he was never able to in life. was that promise to always be faithful until ennis himself died? guess that's up to every one's interpretation.
Wonderfully put, rimasworld. And yes, the final promise is indeed open to interpretation. I think it was meant to be so.
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I'm sure that if Jack could have found Ennis sooner he would have. He never give up till he found him again. And Ennis had clearly been hoping that somehow Jack would find him, his reaction to being reuinted with Jack again says it all.
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The interesting thing about Ennis is that he seemed to have sent mixed signals. This is understandable withing the greater context of his won individual/internal conflicts. Jack tried, I think, to put the past behind him -- the way he understood Ennis half-wanted them to do.
But Jack was perceptive enough to realize when something just didn't work -- and rather than stand it, he just felt that he had to fix it. In spite of the 4-year lag, his deciding to re-establish contact with Ennis was -- in a perverse way -- "timely". When he resolved to find Ennis, it was with a firm realization that nothing else would work.
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I believe they were always thinking about each other during the four years they were apart. I don't think Jack would ever be able to not try and find Ennis. Maybe Jack was worried that Ennis, now having married Alma and settled down into the life that was expected pf him, would be too afraid to see him again and thus refuse to meet him again, but Jack was willing to take that chance. Jack wouldn't let anything get in the way of finding Ennis again, he was resolved to do so. As for Ennis, of course his fear wouldn't allow him to actively go looking for Jack during that time, but at their reunion it's clear to see that Ennis had been waiting for Jack all that time. He left it up to Jack to find him, almost like he knew Jack would eventually find him, knowing Jack's personality, knowing his determination, he knew it would only be a matter of time.
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Well, we should note that Jack did go back to Aguirre the following summer in the hope that Ennis would have changed his mind. Ennis's absence probably convinced Jack that he had lost him for good -- and perhaps the move to Texas was an attempt to forget Ennis and start afresh.
I agree that both of them throught about each other during the 4 years. It is clear from some of the scenwes that this was indeed the case. But I also think that both made a concerted effort to try to forget -- and Jack certainly realized that he just COULDN'T. :)
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Well, we should note that Jack did go back to Aguirre the following summer in the hope that Ennis would have changed his mind. Ennis's absence probably convinced Jack that he had lost him for good -- and perhaps the move to Texas was an attempt to forget Ennis and start afresh.
I agree that both of them throught about each other during the 4 years. It is clear from some of the scenwes that this was indeed the case. But I also think that both made a concerted effort to try to forget -- and Jack certainly realized that he just COULDN'T. :)
I believe during the four years the years they were apart, they were just lying themselves if they thought they would forget. It's clear without a doubt that they had been thinking of each other constantly during that time. They tried to concentrate and absorb themselves in other things, but of course it was to no avail, they were fooling themselves if they thought they could actually forget. It was merely them distracting themselves with other things in their lives, Jack going to Texas, and Ennis marrying Alma and such, they tried to live the lives that were expected of them, but of course their souls and minds were always with each other. Ennis's reply to Jack's first postcard "You bet" and the way he goes to the post office to send it, anyone can clearly see this is the first time Ennis has been happy in those four years. Later it's evidenced again when Jack pulls up in his truck and Ennis had been sitting there waiting for him all day, like an eager child, then he suddenly breaks out into smile and skips down the stairs. That's definitely the most excited he'd been in four years, and Alma saw that. I bet it was the first time she'd seen him so excited about something in his life, and it took her by surprise that something could actually make Ennis feel that way. Anyway, the point is, that each one must have felt it was only a matter of time before they were reunited. Jack had probably been looking for a way to find Ennis the whole time. And from Ennis looking up at the sky and being thankful, it's clear to see that Ennis had been hoping for this the whole time too.
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Ironically, I think that the 4 years of separation was "necessary" for them to realize how much they really needed to be with each other -- even for a few days in a year. But I think that psychologically, knowing that they were "in touch" with each other mattered a great deal. It was think knowledge that probably kept them going for the next 20 years, when they rarely saw each other, but knew that the other was potentially "within reach".
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Ironically, I think that the 4 years of separation was "necessary" for them to realize how much they really needed to be with each other -- even for a few days in a year. But I think that psychologically, knowing that they were "in touch" with each other mattered a great deal. It was think knowledge that probably kept them going for the next 20 years, when they rarely saw each other, but knew that the other was potentially "within reach".
Well said. Yes, it was knowing that they would see each other again and looking forward to it, thinking about each other, and the last time they had been together and eagerly waiting for when they would be together again that kept them going, it gave them something to live for and made their lives apart much more bearable.
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Well said. Yes, it was knowing that they would see each other again and looking forward to it, thinking about each other, and the last time they had been together and eagerly waiting for when they would be together again that kept them going, it gave them something to live for and made their lives apart much more bearable.
Would be too much to say that the long stretches when they didn't see each other perhaps also "helped" their love to be more resilient? It must have taught them the value of patience, if nothing else!
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Anyway, the point is, that each one must have felt it was only a matter of time before they were reunited. Jack had probably been looking for a way to find Ennis the whole time. And from Ennis looking up at the sky and being thankful, it's clear to see that Ennis had been hoping for this the whole time too.
Which explains Ennis' handy lie about Jack being a "fishing buddy". Wouldn't Alma know all of Ennis' friends by now? She asked if he was a former co-worker...someone she wouldn't be expected to know. But if Alma and Ennis were engaged at 19, and Jack pops up at 23, when would Ennis have met Jack and gone fishing and Alma not know? When Ennis was 16 or 17? And where was Jack all these years? He clearly had a story cooked up in case Jack showed up one day...a reason that would give them time alone and away from civilization.
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Which explains Ennis' handy lie about Jack being a "fishing buddy". Wouldn't Alma know all of Ennis' friends by now? She asked if he was a former co-worker...someone she wouldn't be expected to know. But if Alma and Ennis were engaged at 19, and Jack pops up at 23, when would Ennis have met Jack and gone fishing and Alma not know? When Ennis was 16 or 17? And where was Jack all these years? He clearly had a story cooked up in case Jack showed up one day...a reason that would give them time alone and away from civilization.
Interesting point, jedibarrister.
I think that Ennis would have probably told Alma that Jack moved to Texas much earlier than he did. Also, Ennis wasn't originally from Riverton, correct? The whole period prior to Riverton must have been unknown to Alma. I am assuming of course that Ennis's association with Alma only started when he moved to Riverton.
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Which explains Ennis' handy lie about Jack being a "fishing buddy". Wouldn't Alma know all of Ennis' friends by now? She asked if he was a former co-worker...someone she wouldn't be expected to know. But if Alma and Ennis were engaged at 19, and Jack pops up at 23, when would Ennis have met Jack and gone fishing and Alma not know? When Ennis was 16 or 17? And where was Jack all these years? He clearly had a story cooked up in case Jack showed up one day...a reason that would give them time alone and away from civilization.
True, Alma and Ennis had known each other at a young age, and Alma probably already knew that Ennis had lived with his brother and sister in Sage, before coming to Riverton after they were married. That wouldn't really leave a time space for this "fishing buddy" Jack. When would he have met him? I'm sure Alma would know any of Ennis's aquaintances or co-workers at that point. And Ennis being his introverted self, Alma probably knew he didn't have many friends either. When Ennis says the fishing buddy line, there is not even hesitation, as if he's thinking of what's to say to cover up who Jack really is. It seems like Ennis has already anticipated the day he would have to come up with this story and he's already rehearsed this line in his head for when the day finally came. It clearly shows how much he he'd been waiting for Jack to show up in his life again and for them to pick up where they left off. He had been hoping for and anticipating that day for the past four years, and when it finally arrived, he was ready.
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True, Alma and Ennis had known each other at a young age, and Alma probably already knew that Ennis had lived with his brother and sister in Sage, before coming to Riverton after they were married. That wouldn't really leave a time space for this "fishing buddy" Jack. When would he have met him? I'm sure Alma would know any of Ennis's aquaintances or co-workers at that point. And Ennis being his introverted self, Alma probably knew he didn't have many friends either. When Ennis says the fishing buddy line, there is not even hesitation, as if he's thinking of what's to say to cover up who Jack really is. It seems like Ennis has already anticipated the day he would have to come up with this story and he's already rehearsed this line in his head for when the day finally came. It clearly shows how much he he'd been waiting for Jack to show up in his life again and for them to pick up where they left off. He had been hoping for and anticipating that day for the past four years, and when it finally arrived, he was ready.
This may be an aside, but I had a sense that Ennis's comment about Jack as a fishing buddy sounded spontaneous to me. I had wondered if Ennis was really in the habit of fishing. Wouldn't it strike Alma as strange if Ennis never really fished the whole time they were married? Then again, people have been known to give up a hobby or an activity, only to do it again after years of inactivity...
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This may be an aside, but I had a sense that Ennis's comment about Jack as a fishing buddy sounded spontaneous to me. I had wondered if Ennis was really in the habit of fishing. Wouldn't it strike Alma as strange if Ennis never really fished the whole time they were married? Then again, people have been known to give up a hobby or an activity, only to do it again after years of inactivity...
I also found it kind of odd that the fishing comment came out of nowhere. I have a feeling that it wasn't well thought out, because for some reason Ennis wasn't very careful with Alma. He kisses Jack right in front of a window she could easily look out of, he forgets his fishing gear, and he never catches any fish. So he never really did a good job of covering up his relationship with Jack from her. Even from the beginning with the fishing comment we can tell it's not very thought out. I don't think he'd ever fished, and I think Alma knew this, so it seemed strange to her from the beginning. I think Ennis's love for Jack was so much on Ennis's mind that he was never very careful about hiding it, despite how paranoid and afraid he was at people finding out.
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I also found it kind of odd that the fishing comment came out of nowhere. I have a feeling that it wasn't well thought out, because for some reason Ennis wasn't very careful with Alma. He kisses Jack right in front of a window she could easily look out of, he forgets his fishing gear, and he never catches any fish. So he never really did a good job of covering up his relationship with Jack from her. Even from the beginning with the fishing comment we can tell it's not very thought out. I don't think he'd ever fished, and I think Alma knew this, so it seemed strange to her from the beginning. I think Ennis's love for Jack was so much on Ennis's mind that he was never very careful about hiding it, despite how paranoid and afraid he was at people finding out.
Although an aside, I think you say it much much better here. Thanks, athena0204!
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I also found it kind of odd that the fishing comment came out of nowhere. I have a feeling that it wasn't well thought out, because for some reason Ennis wasn't very careful with Alma. He kisses Jack right in front of a window she could easily look out of, he forgets his fishing gear, and he never catches any fish. So he never really did a good job of covering up his relationship with Jack from her. Even from the beginning with the fishing comment we can tell it's not very thought out. I don't think he'd ever fished, and I think Alma knew this, so it seemed strange to her from the beginning. I think Ennis's love for Jack was so much on Ennis's mind that he was never very careful about hiding it, despite how paranoid and afraid he was at people finding out.
Beautifully put,Athenaˇ ^f^ But letting aside the fact that love and the happinness of seeing and being with Jack,could perfectly make Ennis a little careless;could it this lack of care be a kind of auto punishment for his "sin",against this homosexual feeling he felt so uncomfortable with?...
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Beautifully put,Athenaˇ ^f^ But letting aside the fact that love and the happinness of seeing and being with Jack,could perfectly make Ennis a little careless;could it this lack of care be a kind of auto punishment for his "sin",against this homosexual feeling he felt so uncomfortable with?...
I have a feeling that Ennis just lost it during the reunion kiss! When he saw his love after 4 years, he wasn't thinking (clear) at all. Alma? Who's Alma? At that moment there was no world around him! He just wanted to taste the sweetest lips no matter what and who! The whole world could've collapsed as far as he was concern.
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I have a feeling that Ennis just lost it during the reunion kiss! When he saw his love after 4 years, he wasn't thinking (clear) at all. Alma? Who's Alma? At that moment there was no world around him! He just wanted to taste the sweetest lips no matter what and who! The whole world could've collapsed as far as he was concern.
Yes you're right,and I have already said that Ennis felt overwhelmed by emotion by seeing Jack again; so in these moments,is easy to be catched guard down.But I was referring also to former moments;as Athena remarked,he often forgot his fishing gear,he never catched any fish and even,he never was careful enough as not awake Alma's suspicions with their so close friendship.Is in these cases when I wonder if something in his innest self wished to be punished for this forbidden love that,for him,don't forget that was like a damnation; Ennis never felt at ease with his feelings,which sometimes even denied,and I bet that sometimes he arrived to hate him for having them and Jack for make him having them...
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Yes you're right,and I have already said that Ennis felt overwhelmed by emotion by seeing Jack again; so in these moments,is easy to be catched guard down.But I was referring also to former moments;as Athena remarked,he often forgot his fishing gear,he never catched any fish and even,he never was careful enough as not awake Alma's suspicions with their so close friendship.Is in these cases when I wonder if something in his innest self wished to be punished for this forbidden love that,for him,don't forget that was like a damnation; Ennis never felt at ease with his feelings,which sometimes even denied,and I bet that sometimes he arrived to hate him for having them and Jack for make him having them...
The thing is though, that Ennis was pretty careful about hiding it from everyone else. It was just Alma he wasn't careful with. I think it was only because at the times he met up with Jack, he happened to be around Alma right before. If he had been around someone else, he would have probably acted the same way everytime he was about to go with Jack. Seeing Jack would always make Ennis forget his fears temporarily. I believe it's like Loreen said. That everytime Ennis saw Jack again, and knew he would be spending time with him, he forgot about everyone and everything else in the world. During those times, there was only Jack and their love. And also he felt trapped in his living a lie with Alma pretending to be something he isn't. Perhaps it was a way of punishing her? I don't feel it was a way of punishing himself, because he forgets his gear because he's so happy and excited to be with Jack, so something like fishing isn't on his mind at that time. He would completely forget about Alma in those moments. So I don't believe he was punishing himself or punishing Alma by not caring if she knew, I think it was ust because his love for Jack was so strong that it could make him forget about everything else, forget about this world for those moments of pure happiness he had.
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Yes,I agree and I have always in that was love what dictated Ennis reactions when Jack was near him.But you have said that he was always very careful with other persons,but he lost a great part of this care when Alma was around.And you added that no matter who was around instead of Alma,Ennis had surely acted the same way,with the same rather careless actions.
What I wonder is if maybe he didn't care what Alma thought and,even,felt,because he put his feelings to Jack and to her counterbalancing them,to realise that was Jack who always won...But only the weight of society rules made him stand his situation,and then he realised he wasn't acting right,that he was doing something against these rules,against family values,against his family...And a deep and unstoppable feeling of guilt could perfectly catch him,and make him in the end feel like being punished.And all this,I repeat,knowing that his love for Jack was his greatest and maybe his only reason for being and feeling alive.I don't know if this makes sense... :-\\
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But he did seem careful around other people. He was afraid of Alma telling Monroe, even though I think she already had done that. And Cassie was completely clueless about Ennis, so he seemed to be doing a good job of keeping his secret from everyone in Riverton except for Alma. Maybe he resented Alma because he felt so trapped in his marriage with her, doing what society expected of him, no matter how unhappy and miserable it made him, that he didn't care if Alma knew. Part of why he was so careless around Alma was simply because he was just so excited and happy to see Jack that he forgot everything else, all his troubles and worries flew out the window as soon as he knew he would be back in Jack's arms. But I think also part of it was that his resenting Alma, just like Jack resented Lureen, the resenting of that lie they were forced to live, the chains that society had placed them in. Ennis was definitely afraid of anyone finding out, including Alma, but his resentment gave him a sort of careless abandon regarding what she thought. He no longer cared what she thought, I think it was that fighter coming out in Ennis. Ennis was always the one who was afraid, the one who thought he was powerless and had no choice but to comply with society's rules and the cruel circumstances of it, but there is no doubt that his deep and immense love for Jack, finding that true love brought out the maverick in Ennis. While he was still in chains for the most part, Jack had lit that spark in him to fight for love, even though it was just a tiny spark. In the end, he realizes he should have done much more, he should have listened to his heart and not cared about anything else, he should have been true to himself and never let society's iron chains make him miserable, but while Jack was alive, a tiny bit of that spark was there, and it manifested itself in how he dealt with Alma.
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- This movie explores the complex nature of same-sex relationships in the 1960s, highlighting the contrasting perspectives of its main characters. Ennis seeks only a casual hookup, while Jack longs for a committed relationship. From the outset, Jack has plans to involve someone in helping with his father's farm, indicating his desire for a future together. He is also open with his parents about his intention to bring a man home. In contrast, Ennis is still coming to terms with his own sexuality. He grapples with a deep fear of societal judgment and the possibility of violence against gay men during that era. The narrative primarily revolves around Ennis's struggle with being in the closet as the movie ends with Ennis opening a closet and crying on the shirts how life could be if they weren't closeted.
- Moreover, the dynamics with their wives further illustrate their differing situations. Alma is aware of Ennis's infidelity and suspects he is gay, yet she chooses to pretend she doesn't know, resulting in silent suffering throughout the film. In comparison, Lureen has a sense that something is wrong in her relationship with Jack, but she doesn't fully understand what it is, leading to less profound emotional pain.
-How did Jack know? Both Jack and Ennis's fights brought an end to their summer romance, and they are now on different life paths: Ennis is set to get married, while Jack may join the army. It seems there is no future for their summer fling to develop further. This is reinforced in their conversation at the motel.
Despite this, something compels Jack to reach out to Ennis again, but fate intervenes. Someone has already explained how general delivery works in rural areas, which is historically accurate. Meanwhile, Jack has a strong intuition that Ennis is in Riverton. “Drop me a line; let me know if you’re there,” he says. Ennis replies, “You bet.”