I, for one, don't think I could have stomached Jack saying goodbye to Randall. I think the mechanics were supposed to see them hugging goodbye. I didn't need to see this. Maybe I'm fooling myself, but I think Jack and Randall just met up for some sex, nothing more. Sure Jack mentioned bringing Ol' Randall up to LF, but maybe Jack was just blowing off steam. Thank goodness Ang saw fit to cut this out of the film.
I, for one, don't think I could have stomached Jack saying goodbye to Randall. I think the mechanics were supposed to see them hugging goodbye. I didn't need to see this. Maybe I'm fooling myself, but I think Jack and Randall just met up for some sex, nothing more. Sure Jack mentioned bringing Ol' Randall up to LF, but maybe Jack was just blowing off steam. Thank goodness Ang saw fit to cut this out of the film.
Yes. One God. And one Love for Jack Twist: Ennis del Mar.
I do not agree with the topic.
Jack died in a car accident. He was not murdered. What we see in the movie is what Ennis imagines while he is speaking with the widow.
I can not believe that in USA, in 1983, If somebody is murdered, there is not a research, or there are not guilty.
I do not agree with the topic.
Jack died in a car accident. He was not murdered. What we see in the movie is what Ennis imagines while he is speaking with the widow.
I can not believe that in USA, in 1983, If somebody is murdered, there is not a research, or there are not guilty.
I, for one, don't think I could have stomached Jack saying goodbye to Randall. I think the mechanics were supposed to see them hugging goodbye. I didn't need to see this. Maybe I'm fooling myself, but I think Jack and Randall just met up for some sex, nothing more. Sure Jack mentioned bringing Ol' Randall up to LF, but maybe Jack was just blowing off steam. Thank goodness Ang saw fit to cut this out of the film.
I, for one, don't think I could have stomached Jack saying goodbye to Randall. I think the mechanics were supposed to see them hugging goodbye. I didn't need to see this. Maybe I'm fooling myself, but I think Jack and Randall just met up for some sex, nothing more. Sure Jack mentioned bringing Ol' Randall up to LF, but maybe Jack was just blowing off steam. Thank goodness Ang saw fit to cut this out of the film.
I got one fuzzy pic on one the man who beat Jack, he looks like the angry man on the garage, what do you think?
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkuvablogi.com%2Fnayta%2Fprev%2Fimg63590.jpg&hash=5389a69137fd3036050f041dae45864684aa4d5a)
hiya
this part really gets to me...makes me want to cry my eyes out...lump in throat...lol...I have more than one view...
was the rodeo clown a part of the gang who beat him...as he walked away from Jack at the bar and said something to those men around the pool table...?
Did Jack's wife have him murdered...?
was it ennis or Jacks wife who was seeing the murder was it real or just in either ennis's or jacks wifes mind...this when ennis on the phone?
and why does this film have to be so damn sad....lol...
also do the actors Jake and Heath read as much into all this as we do...and do they have an affection for each other...out of the roles....lol
glynn
I do not agree with the topic.
Jack died in a car accident. He was not murdered. What we see in the movie is what Ennis imagines while he is speaking with the widow.
I can not believe that in USA, in 1983, If somebody is murdered, there is not a research, or there are not guilty.
I got one fuzzy pic on one the man who beat Jack, he looks like the angry man on the garage, what do you think?
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkuvablogi.com%2Fnayta%2Fprev%2Fimg63590.jpg&hash=5389a69137fd3036050f041dae45864684aa4d5a)
You're right! it's him... :X
I got one fuzzy pic on one the man who beat Jack, he looks like the angry man on the garage, what do you think?
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkuvablogi.com%2Fnayta%2Fprev%2Fimg63590.jpg&hash=5389a69137fd3036050f041dae45864684aa4d5a)
You're right! it's him... :X
Yikes !!!
That's a really creepy picture. :\'( :\'( :\'(
I find the murder sequence so difficult to watch. It is perhaps best to leave the identities of the murderers in the shadows. The less we know about them, the better...
I can't bring myself to watch it. It's just too painful and sad. :\'( :\'( :\'(
I can't bring myself to watch it. It's just too painful and sad. :\'( :\'( :\'(
I understand the motivation and need to show this scene in the film, no matter how difficult it is to contemplate. It is good that the entire scene is short and retains an air of mystery about it.
I can't bring myself to watch it. It's just too painful and sad. :\'( :\'( :\'(
I understand the motivation and need to show this scene in the film, no matter how difficult it is to contemplate. It is good that the entire scene is short and retains an air of mystery about it.
Yes, I'm glad it is short too. :\'(
It occurred tome after reading something in another thread - is it just a coincidence that Jack apparently lived in childress all those years with no problems and it wasn't till after he's talked, at least in Lightning Flat, of divorcing Lureen and coming back to Wyoming with Randall, that he dies? Did he go back to Texas full of bitterness about Ennis, and start talking openly about his plans? If so, you could work out a scenario where Lureen said something to someone there and it got back to some good old boys who weren't about to let the Newsome name be associated with a diivorce in these circumstances...Lureen wouldn;t have needed to know - they might just have thought they were doing her a favor and acting as her father would have done.
To be honest, somehow, it wouldn't surprise me if Jack became careless after giving up on Ennis.
I doubt he loved and Randall anywhere near a much as he loved Ennis and probably kept up the affair with him because he felt so alone.
I don't know wheter he would out himself or not. That just doesn't seem like something Jack would do.
Personally . . . I suspect Randall.
What I meant was, I think Randall outed Jack.
What I meant was, I think Randall outed Jack.
Oh, I see. Yes, that is a possibility in the scene that was cut with the garage. For sure something happened that made the mechanics stand up and watch.
It occurred tome after reading something in another thread - is it just a coincidence that Jack apparently lived in childress all those years with no problems and it wasn't till after he's talked, at least in Lightning Flat, of divorcing Lureen and coming back to Wyoming with Randall, that he dies? Did he go back to Texas full of bitterness about Ennis, and start talking openly about his plans? If so, you could work out a scenario where Lureen said something to someone there and it got back to some good old boys who weren't about to let the Newsome name be associated with a diivorce in these circumstances...Lureen wouldn;t have needed to know - they might just have thought they were doing her a favor and acting as her father would have done.
That is a plausible possibility welshwitch, but because there exists a scene where Jack outs himself at a garage I don't think that is the way it happened.
However, Lureen's statement to Ennis, "Get in touch with his folks. I suppose they'd appreciate it if his wishes was carried out. About the ashes, I mean.[/i]" Seems to indicate Jack had other wishes also. What were they? Did Lureen know he planned to leave her and go off to Lightening Flats with Randall? Did Jack ask Lureen for a huge sum of money? L.D. Newsome was dead and could no longer pay Jack to get lost. That, "About the ashes I mean." has always haunted me.
Did Jack, after deciding to give up on his dream to live with Ennis, become careless with Randall and out himself?
To be honest, somehow, it wouldn't surprise me if Jack became careless after giving up on Ennis.
I doubt he loved and Randall anywhere near a much as he loved Ennis and probably kept up the affair with him because he felt so alone.
I don't know wheter he would out himself or not. That just doesn't seem like something Jack would do.
Personally . . . I suspect Randall.
You know greenfrog, I use to suspect Randall also. He did call his boss a "good old boy." Good old boys are notoriously known to be homophobic rednecks in the US.
But, Jack and Randall were together for...what...3 years? Don't seem likely Randal would have waited that long.
As for Jack outing himself, I think that is exactly what he did with Jimbo. Once outed, Jimbo took off to tell his friends.
and of course it's human nature to become more careless the longer you get away with something.
the other thing that may have happened is that a sort of head of steam built up - gossip from Jimbo and anyone else on the rodeo circuit who had their suspicions, Randall or those who knew him maybe, takk by locals like theones at the dealership, even gossip about all Jack's unexplained absences from home - the cover story of going to see his parents has always seemed to me a weak one, given that he only ever went at certain times in the year and not the obvious ones either.
What an interesting idea - you mean that if he'd had the sort of girly characteristics and the silly voice like the caricatures on TV they'd have seen hiom as less of a threat because he was so obviously a natural focus for jokes and so clearly weak that they knew thay could make fun of him and get away with it? If he's gay but looks and behaves like a " normal" man, then that's frightening, because if he can be gay, so could they...
and of course it's human nature to become more careless the longer you get away with something.
the other thing that may have happened is that a sort of head of steam built up - gossip from Jimbo and anyone else on the rodeo circuit who had their suspicions, Randall or those who knew him maybe, takk by locals like theones at the dealership, even gossip about all Jack's unexplained absences from home - the cover story of going to see his parents has always seemed to me a weak one, given that he only ever went at certain times in the year and not the obvious ones either.
Sometimes I wonder if Jimbo and his cohorts were so threatened by Jack because of his masculinity that they plotted to have him lynched. I think if Jack was the gay caricature/stereotype, they would've left him alone distancing themselves from him, and using him as entertainment for their sick jokes. Being masculine is obviously not what they expect a gay person to be, and thus they felt threatened that they may be losing their ability to "pick them out of the crowd." Jack upset their belief system making them feel vulnerable...
But the rodeo clown bit was years earlier - before he met Lureen - they wouldn;t have waited something like seventeen years to initiate something. The mechanics we just don't know enough about - I wonder whether having given up on Ennis after the scene by the lake and having got away with the Randall thing for a while, Jack either became careless oor simply did';t care all that much, and gave away what head been possibly a badly-kept secret for a while?
I think that's true - I can extrapolate to a Jack who has periods of bitterness about Ennis, whom he's not going to see for six months, and may not see then - he doesn;t know Ennis is going to send a postcard and he obviously doesn't - imagining it's over, trying to pretend that someone else can take Ennis's place but knowing deep down that no-one can, and getting into a reckless frame of mind and being less guarded than he's been in the past, and nearer home, where he's well-known. I was going to say some sort of death-wish, but that's probably not true - Jack has too much of a life-force to wish himself dead, I think.
I think that's true - I can extrapolate to a Jack who has periods of bitterness about Ennis, whom he's not going to see for six months, and may not see then - he doesn;t know Ennis is going to send a postcard and he obviously doesn't - imagining it's over, trying to pretend that someone else can take Ennis's place but knowing deep down that no-one can, and getting into a reckless frame of mind and being less guarded than he's been in the past, and nearer home, where he's well-known. I was going to say some sort of death-wish, but that's probably not true - Jack has too much of a life-force to wish himself dead, I think.
I think that's true - I can extrapolate to a Jack who has periods of bitterness about Ennis, whom he's not going to see for six months, and may not see then - he doesn;t know Ennis is going to send a postcard and he obviously doesn't - imagining it's over, trying to pretend that someone else can take Ennis's place but knowing deep down that no-one can, and getting into a reckless frame of mind and being less guarded than he's been in the past, and nearer home, where he's well-known. I was going to say some sort of death-wish, but that's probably not true - Jack has too much of a life-force to wish himself dead, I think.
Aguirre also knew about Jack and Ennis.
Even though Jack's death was many years after Brokeback...could it be possible that maybe Aguirre spread word over the years about Jack...and it then came full circle to the point where it reached the mechanics themselves?
It's a thought which came to me just now..so I haven't really had time to see if it actually would be plausible or not. :-\
To be honest, somehow, it wouldn't surprise me if Jack became careless after giving up on Ennis.
I doubt he loved and Randall anywhere near a much as he loved Ennis and probably kept up the affair with him because he felt so alone.
I don't know wheter he would out himself or not. That just doesn't seem like something Jack would do.
Personally . . . I suspect Randall.
You know greenfrog, I use to suspect Randall also. He did call his boss a "good old boy." Good old boys are notoriously known to be homophobic rednecks in the US.
But, Jack and Randall were together for...what...3 years? Don't seem likely Randal would have waited that long.
As for Jack outing himself, I think that is exactly what he did with Jimbo. Once outed, Jimbo took off to tell his friends.
Jack did seem to take such risks, no? The scene with Jimbo is indeed quite telling...
My two cents' worth:
Concerning Jack's behavior after he and Ennis had the fight at the last meeting, I don't think he had a "death wish"; as ww said, he is a life force. However, in a temporarily depressed state of mind, Jack could have gotten a little careless. Partly just being tired, feeling less guilty himself, etc.... but partly, perhaps subconsciously, something of this impulse may have crossed Jack's mind: "I don't really care if I get beat up or killed. Without Ennis, what does it matter." Like I said, not that he really meant that, but at the time, it might have been a conscious or unconscious impulse.
Some of you have heard this before. In fact, I'll quote from a thread I started a while back.
"Near the end of the movie [trailer], the three assailants are mentioned. One, called "Grease Monkey," is played by Christian Fraser. Then, when the stunt doubles are listed, one of Ennis's doubles is Christian Fraser."
My theory on this is that Ang Lee wanted to imply one of two things. Either
a) Ennis was, in some way, responsible for Jack's death. By pushing Jack away, he pushed Jack into the careless behavior that got him killed. I am so sorry to type that. :\'(
b) Ennis feels guilty about Jack's death, and envisions himself/his alter ego present at Jack's murder. That is very sad also. :\'(
Hi Handell,
As far as i know it's a deleted scene.There were mechanics watching Jack supposedly when he goes to see Aguirre about a job up on Brokeback the following year and there are also deleted scenes where men/mechanics again (i think?)are watching Jack and Randall hug one another,a goodbye embrace/hug when they part after coming back from a trip away together.One of them,Jack/Randall is picking up their vehicle.We shall have to see if any of this is included on the new dvd in January. :)
Jennis.x
Mmm,except it's not Kathy.lol ;D.Hi Handell,
As far as i know it's a deleted scene.There were mechanics watching Jack supposedly when he goes to see Aguirre about a job up on Brokeback the following year and there are also deleted scenes where men/mechanics again (i think?)are watching Jack and Randall hug one another,a goodbye embrace/hug when they part after coming back from a trip away together.One of them,Jack/Randall is picking up their vehicle.We shall have to see if any of this is included on the new dvd in January. :)
Jennis.x
Thanks kathy. I was not familiar with the tidbit you mentioned regarding the earlier scene with Aguirre. Most interesting...
LOL...Never :)
OOT: my apologies, Jennis! I am getting old. ;)
Hi Handell,
As far as i know it's a deleted scene.There were mechanics watching Jack supposedly when he goes to see Aguirre about a job up on Brokeback the following year and there are also deleted scenes where men/mechanics again (i think?)are watching Jack and Randall hug one another,a goodbye embrace/hug when they part after coming back from a trip away together.One of them,Jack/Randall is picking up their vehicle.We shall have to see if any of this is included on the new dvd in January. :)
Jennis.xQuote
Thanks Jennis, this is great information. Can't wait to see the deleted scenes. :)