Brokeback Mountain Forum @ ennisjack.com
The Movie & Story => Characters, Quotes & Scenes => Topic started by: carbyville on Jan 03, 2007, 10:03 AM
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This is my first time starting my own topic, so I hope this is the correct place for this. I posted this in my LiveJournal back in April, before I found my way back to this forum and I just found it last night and thought it might be interesting to some, so I am going to post it here, now.
This will probably be long, so there's your warning ;D
I was looking through pictures one day and came across one that really made me kind of sick. It is a picture of the scene that gets me the most depressed. I looked at it for a few minutes because it is an amazing hi-res version of the picture. The longer I looked at it, the sicker I felt. Sick with sadness, I should say. I decided I was going to make this post to see how everyone else felt about what I am going to point out, observe and analyze about this picture.
I have mapped out and numbered what I am going to talk about and in what order, so all you have to do is find the number and read my observing/analyzing. I will post links to the pictures, rather than the pictures them self, so all you have to do is click the links and the pictures will come up.
--Numbered Picture Here (http://i3.tinypic.com/vrepti.jpg)
--Non-Numbered Picture Here (http://i3.tinypic.com/vremo2.jpg)
First off, before I start let me explain how I came to my observations. I am a very analytical, methodical and detail oriented kind of person. The best comparison to what I am going to talk about is with how I play computer game "The Sims". When I am designing a Sim house, I take objects and put them in a house a certain way and at certain angles for reasons. Everything in the house has a purpose for something and even if the purpose is never actually carried out, with a little imagination it can be simulated. A painting on a wall, or a coat rack in a hallway. They are there for reasons. To simulate the existence of a real person. To make things look used or give a person the impression "this could be used for [blank]"
So by now you may have already guessed what I am up to. If you looked at the numbered picture you probably already know. There are things that I noticed about Ennis's trailer at the end of Brokeback Mountain that give me the impression that the set designers and possibly/probably Ang Lee are on the same wavelength as I am when it comes to objects. We already know this movie has so many subtle moments as it is and so much detail that we can probably pick it apart for days on end. I am just taking this to the next level, now.
Now I will get to it:
1 -- What the hell is that? It looks like a hacky sack or something. Actually, it looks like some little sports ball my brother got from Burger King in his Kid's Meal. Why the hell is it sitting on Ennis's TV? I stared at that for ages and I still cannot figure out what it is or if it has anything to do with the TV set. I put that part on just now and I still can't figure it out. Any ideas?
2 -- Cute purple blankie, first off. Second. What a sad little bed. It is all small and unmade. What is that green thing? Another pillow? Something that Ennis clutches at night during those dreams he has about Jack? Food for thought.
3 -- Is that alarm clock even on? Sure as hell doesn't look like it is. Then I thought maybe it was an old school clock. With the white numbers that move independently rather than a digital LCD, but I don't even see numbers there. My over-active imagination has me thinking that Ennis never used that clock, his dreams woke him up, not that clock.
4 & 5 -- Ashtray? A glass of water? How long has that water been sitting there? Ennis drinks water? SHOCKER. Unless it is vodka. So Ennis sits on his sad little bed, smoking ciggies and drinking water. Alone.
6 -- What are you? TV guide? Junk mail? Travel brochure? (ha! that's a good one). This is another one I couldn't figure out.
7 -- A sad little TV to go with the sad little bed in a sad little trailer. I am sad. :(
8 -- That is an awful lot of clutter and mail. Anyone think that maybe that postcard is in there? I am going somewhere with this. Hang tight.
9 -- *ruffles Ennis' hair*
10 -- Anyone else think a big picture of good ol' Brokeback would look smashing here?
11, 12 & 13 -- Here is the big one folks, the one you have all been waiting for. My theory on the chair, ashtray and shirts. Take a look at the chair first off. Then put yourself in it and look straight ahead. Where do your eyes go? BIG OLD NUMBER 13 is where they go. That chair is set up perfectly to sit and look at those shirts. And if nobody is sitting there for a large amount of time, then why is there a seemingly full ashtray sitting there? To look pretty? No, I don't think so. And going back to number 8. If that postcard is in that pile, I bet he would look at that too.
And that is what I mean by simulating a scenario. Of course since Ennis is not real, he actually did not sit there and Heath was never filmed doing this. But everything in this room is set to look lived it. To simulate Ennis's existence off screen and give insight as to what the hell he did after the movie ended. I don't think he did much. Basically what you see is what you get. Sat in that chair, chain smoked and looked at the shirts/possibly the postcard, sometimes laid in bed and continued to chain smoke, with his water/vodka that still confuses me, and watched that little old tv. Almost everything is set up perfectly to give you this illusion, with the exception of unknown object #1 and unknown object #6.
Perhaps I am letting my mind get the best of me with 11, 12 and 13 but I don't know. I can see Ang doing something like that.. or maybe I just see that because it is what *I* would do.
I am looking forward to hearing other's opinions of this picture.
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Thanks carbyville for starting this.
I admit that I am somewhat frustrated because as usual, my work computed blocks access to the picture you refer to.
Perhaps I can ask someone like Twisted to repost the pic in a hosting site that I can access from work. In the meantime, I will try to infer from other posts what is hidden from me at the moment.
To the other members, I too await your comments. :)
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carby - thanks for starting this topic. It is in the right place and very interesting. :t)
I need some time to think about this and will get back to you.
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Thanks carbyville for starting this.
I admit that I am somewhat frustrated because as usual, my work computed blocks access to the picture you refer to.
Perhaps I can ask someone like Twisted to repost the pic in a hosting site that I can access from work. In the meantime, I will try to infer from other posts what is hidden from me at the moment.
To the other members, I too await your comments. :)
Do you know which hosting sites are not blocked? I can try and re-upload them for you it is not a problem at all.
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Here's the numbered one :)
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg54.imageshack.us%2Fimg54%2F5021%2Fvreptikls9.jpg&hash=af22d6b48322d0bcc145026dbe4022e9ec35ce39)
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Thank you Carby for starting this thread.
I think that you are right with the 11, 12 and 13. Ennis, all a alone, sitting on the chair, smoking cigars and watching the shirts and thinking about Jack.. :\'( :-\\ :\'( :\'(
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Woa, I can't see the last scene because my DVD has a scratch, but the thing u do is amazing. I think u have seen this many times. Thank Mr Lee, he is a great director, who can make this scene be so sad ....
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Carby:
Great topic and really great analysis. Of course you’re absolutely right, this is just the way the set designers go through EVERTHING trying to decide what goes in and what goes out of the frame view to set the tone.
I think your analysis is pretty spot-on in terms of what you see and what its intention was in the frame. How interesting it would be to hear some inside information on this set and dozens of others in terms of how they were designed and developed.
You’ve said several times in your analysis how “sad” the whole view is and how sad it makes you feel. Yes, it does (I think that’s what the intention was). BUT the other side of this and to me the great BEAUTY of it and this view is this- poor sad Ennis doesn’t have a lot in his life in the way possessions (for an American anyway). But he does have ONE thing that many people don’t ever get in their lives, He KNOWS that there was someONE who once loved him and loved him deeply. There can be a lot of comfort and also sadness in that knowledge, and it is the signal event of his (of anyone’s’) life. The sadness of the view here makes the brilliance of “the shirts” penetrate it all like a beacon of love.
jackster
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I wil comment on the numbered items in no particular order.
3 -- Is that alarm clock even on? Sure as hell doesn't look like it is. Then I thought maybe it was an old school clock. With the white numbers that move independently rather than a digital LCD, but I don't even see numbers there. My over-active imagination has me thinking that Ennis never used that clock, his dreams woke him up, not that clock.
I would assume that he used the clock, as Ennis strikes me as being most punctilious, especially when he had to be up early. Somehow, I think of him as a person who would always be on time -- someone who never left anything to chance. Perhaps the only time he relaxed this was when he was with Jack or when Jack was concerned.
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4 & 5 -- Ashtray? A glass of water? How long has that water been sitting there? Ennis drinks water? SHOCKER. Unless it is vodka. So Ennis sits on his sad little bed, smoking ciggies and drinking water. Alone.
I shall comment on the glass.
This scene follows Jr. leaving the trailer. Both she and Ennis toasted the coming wedding between Jr. and Kurt. I recall that for the toast, Ennis used short glasses, like the tumblers/bottles in which instant coffee is sold. THhs glass appears too tall. It is concievable (or most probable) that the taller glass, perhaps holding water, was used by Jr. after the toast.
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Excellent analysis, carby! I have to agree with your take on #11-13. As for the mystery items, even if we can't tell for sure what they are they add to the overall general feeling of clutter and despair...
As if this scene needed any help making us feel sad... :\'(
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11, 12 & 13 -- Here is the big one folks, the one you have all been waiting for. My theory on the chair, ashtray and shirts. Take a look at the chair first off. Then put yourself in it and look straight ahead. Where do your eyes go? BIG OLD NUMBER 13 is where they go. That chair is set up perfectly to sit and look at those shirts. And if nobody is sitting there for a large amount of time, then why is there a seemingly full ashtray sitting there? To look pretty? No, I don't think so. And going back to number 8. If that postcard is in that pile, I bet he would look at that too.
And that is what I mean by simulating a scenario. Of course since Ennis is not real, he actually did not sit there and Heath was never filmed doing this. But everything in this room is set to look lived it. To simulate Ennis's existence off screen and give insight as to what the hell he did after the movie ended. I don't think he did much. Basically what you see is what you get. Sat in that chair, chain smoked and looked at the shirts/possibly the postcard, sometimes laid in bed and continued to chain smoke, with his water/vodka that still confuses me, and watched that little old tv. Almost everything is set up perfectly to give you this illusion, with the exception of unknown object #1 and unknown object #6.
I delayed commenting on this until now, so here it is. :)
One detail that people may object to in the analysis is that Ennis usually kept the closet door closed, and not open, meaning that the chair would not be positioned in such a way that the sitter will see the shirts; rather, his eyes will be directly led to the window (far right of the picture), which is the last thing shown in the movie and to which the sitter (Ennis) will have an unobstructed view when the closet door is closed (which Ennnis did at the end of the film, so that we see the ouside from the window as the closing shot in the film).
Still, we can choose to identify circumstantial evidence that Ennis did keep the closet door OPEN -- NOT from the film, BUT from the short story. I quote the introductory lines here (from the version of the story puiblished in Close Range:
Ennis Del Mar wakes before five, wind rocking the trailer, hissing in around the aluminum door and window frames. The shirts hanging on a nail shudder slightly in the draft...
(Proulx -- 'Brokeback Mountain,' as published in 'Close Range')
Now, if we imagine that the film makers paid close attention to the details in the short story, why -- one would ask -- would the shirts shudder in the wind if they were safely inside the closed closet? One possibility, of course, is that Proulx had intended the shirts to hang not in the interior of the closet but somewhere outside, like the outside of the closet door instead of the inside. Another possibility is what you mentioned: that Ennis would deliberately leave the closet door open in order to view the shirts.
Still, some people may object to this as a stretch. Also, one would think that Ennis kept the shirts in the inside of the closet in order to protect it, so he would invariably keep it closed, as one closes the lid on a treasure chest or jewel box holding one's cherished possessions.
Nevertheless, we are all free to believe what we can see or choose to see. It is the prerogative of Art. :)
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I would say he kept the door closed the majority of the time. At least movie Ennis did. I don't think he'd want to risk one of the girls stopping by and seeing them. To Ennis he probably thought that people would instantly know what the shirts were. I doubt anyone would have really paid close enough attention. Unless they noticed the postcard sitting there too, then one might think more on it.
In the case of sitting in the chair, I don't think it was intended for anyone to sit there with the shirts, just Ennis. So with that being said he could easily open that closet door before he sits down. I bet there may have been times where he'd just stare out the window as you stated, though. I just see the chair as being set up more for the shirts. It's hard to say where Ennis spent more time in the chair or on his bed because there are full ashtrays next to both so that in anyone's guess.
I just see the chair as being a place where Ennis would sit and ponder for awhile. Long day of work he comes home, grabs a beer and his pack of smokes, opens the door of the closet as he walks by, sits down and there you have it, but closes the door once he gets back up, to keep the shirts protected. As long as Ennis is there with the shirts and the door is open they are still being protected, but once Ennis gets up from the chair the door is closed to keep them safe. Just my thoughts.
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I just see the chair as being a place where Ennis would sit and ponder for awhile. Long day of work he comes home, grabs a beer and his pack of smokes, opens the door of the closet as he walks by, sits down and there you have it, but closes the door once he gets back up, to keep the shirts protected. As long as Ennis is there with the shirts and the door is open they are still being protected, but once Ennis gets up from the chair the door is closed to keep them safe. Just my thoughts.
And beautiful ones they are too, Carby. In the absence of any absolute proof, I'll go with this interpretation. I'd also like to think that not only was Ennis protecting the shirts (and therefore Jack's memory), but they were protecting him in a way too, reminding him of how much he was loved by Jack and reminding him that to love is acceptable.
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Great thread Carby! O0
I love your interpretations and all of the comments too. Don't have much to add yet. I'll have to put on my DVD this afternoon.
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I agree. THis is a wonderful thread. It teases the mind and the heart.
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I agree. THis is a wonderful thread. It teases the mind and the heart.
I am glad I posted it here. I got many great responses and am looking forward to more as time goes on. As I said I posted this in my LiveJournal last April and I didn't get any good conversation out of it like I had hoped so I was very disappointed. I have a ton of stuff in my LiveJournal about BBM that I can probably bring over here and converse about.
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carbyville, we are certainly far from done with this topic.
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I think we can all understand why the shirts were hung precisely in the back of the closet door in the movie version.
Everytime Ennis would open the closet door, the shirts will be the first to come in contact with him. It is a position where they cannot be ignored if one seeks access to the closet.
The closet is therefore akin to a shrine. And as in any shrine, exposition of the relic is expected, even as the shrine protects it.
So why wouldn't Ennis expose the shirts and contemplate them from the chair? It is indeed an excellent vantage point.
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I think we can all understand why the shirts were hung precisely in the back of the closet door in the movie version.
Everytime Ennis would open the closet door, the shirts will be the first to come in contact with him. It is a position where they cannot be ignored if one seeks access to the closet.
The closet is therefore akin to a shrine. And as in any shrine, exposition of the relic is expected, even as the shrine protects it.
So why wouldn't Ennis expose the shirts and contemplate them from the chair? It is indeed an excellent vantage point.
It is even more shrine-like when you add in the postcard he has hanging next to the shirts. He's paying homage to the love of his life and their special place.
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I had always wondered about the positioning of the bed relative to the "living room" and kitchen. I would assume that the bed was positioned where it is in order to minimize direct light coming from the windows. The chair. of course, is positioned so as to maximize access to light from the 2 adjacent windows at right angles during the daytime.
Still, I find it interesting that with the way the pillow is positioned, Ennis would have no view of the closet or the shirts when he lies down. This is in marked contrast to the chair, which certainly is well positioned for this exact purpose.
Why not the bed? After all, it is the seat of dreams (assuming he did not sleep in the chair during most nights). Perhaps this clashes with physical considerations. I find the bed's position quite awkward...
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Wow carby what a great thread and great interpretations - like others will have to think on this and see if I have any comments...
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I had always wondered about the positioning of the bed relative to the "living room" and kitchen. I would assume that the bed was positioned where it is in order to minimize direct light coming from the windows. The chair. of course, is positioned so as to maximize access to light from the 2 adjacent windows at right angles during the daytime.
Still, I find it interesting that with the way the pillow is positioned, Ennis would have no view of the closet or the shirts when he lies down. This is in marked contrast to the chair, which certainly is well positioned for this exact purpose.
Why not the bed? After all, it is the seat of dreams (assuming he did not sleep in the chair during most nights). Perhaps this clashes with physical considerations. I find the bed's position quite awkward...
Interesting. I never gave the bed much thought because I just figured it was positioned that way due to the size of the room. But the pillows, that is a different story. Sleeping in the chair seems very plausible, indeed. Looks like there are a couple of blankets on it, so that is definitely something to think about. On the other hand though, the bed looks slept in but that could just be from Junior sitting on it when she was over. So much to think about with one small space it is incredible.
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Do have a comment on #1 - could this be several items? HOw about a pack of cigarettes, lighter, keys, coins or some such combination... this could be Ennis' repository so that he could pick them up when he was leaving the trailer...
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Interesting. I never gave the bed much thought because I just figured it was positioned that way due to the size of the room. But the pillows, that is a different story. Sleeping in the chair seems very plausible, indeed. Looks like there are a couple of blankets on it, so that is definitely something to think about. On the other hand though, the bed looks slept in but that could just be from Junior sitting on it when she was over. So much to think about with one small space it is incredible.
I was thinking of the same thing. It would seem that the chair would be the most important piece of furniture in the room, because of its position and vantage point. The bed seems like an anomaly -- unless he didn't need to see the shirts to dream about Jack.
jerasjr, I am baffled as the rest by #1. I really can't make it out from the pic. Perhaps it is seen better in some of the shots from the movie/dvd...
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I was thinking that it might be several items, as there is no definite shape there - and since his hat is on the wall above them, thought that they might be things that he took out of his pockets, so that he could pick up everything at one time. Know that I have a spot where I put everything that I would take with me when leaving the apartment.
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I was thinking of the same thing. It would seem that the chair would be the most important piece of furniture in the room, because of its position and vantage point. The bed seems like an anomaly -- unless he didn't need to see the shirts to dream about Jack.
He didn't. I'm sure he went 20 years dreaming about Jack without having those shirts in his possession. The shirts are probably more of a reflective piece of his world and memories of Jack rather than something that was used to bring out his dreams or his thoughts of Jack. He was always thinking of Jack.
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Do have a comment on #1 - could this be several items? HOw about a pack of cigarettes, lighter, keys, coins or some such combination... this could be Ennis' repository so that he could pick them up when he was leaving the trailer...
It does look like a bag of some sort -- similar to what carbyville had suggested. But the focus is so bad... A look into the dvd scenes may help clarify this one...
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He didn't. I'm sure he went 20 years dreaming about Jack without having those shirts in his possession. The shirts are probably more of a reflective piece of his world and memories of Jack rather than something that was used to bring out his dreams or his thoughts of Jack. He was always thinking of Jack.
From the subtle wording of the short story, it would seem that the shirts indeed became an integral part of his existence. That, and his dreams of Jack -- this was the way he "communed" with the Beloved Dead, so to speak. But they do seem distinct from one another.
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It does look like a bag of some sort -- similar to what carbyville had suggested. But the focus is so bad... A look into the dvd scenes may help clarify this one...
Would be interesting seeing it more clearly - to me it seemed like a pack of cigarettes due to size and shape on its side with coins in front - the other items nearest are too dark...but that interpretation is not definite to me either.
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Would be interesting seeing it more clearly - to me it seemed like a pack of cigarettes due to size and shape on its side with coins in front - the other items nearest are too dark...but that interpretation is not definite to me either.
I do seem to see other objects in the foreground, but can't make it/them out any better. These and #6 are hard to guess with further precision from the picture.
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Looked through some more pictures to see if I could figure out what mysterious object #1 was.. still no luck but I came across something else in the trailer.
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg236.imageshack.us%2Fimg236%2F8154%2Fbrokebackmtn3906mn8.th.jpg&hash=aced8720f2ab05450e6bb8fb9fdc910cc0a194f6) (http://img236.imageshack.us/my.php?image=brokebackmtn3906mn8.jpg)
If you click that and make the picture bigger you will see on the stand next to the chair on the very bottom there seems to be a food container. Like a "doggy bag/box" you'd get at a restaurant. Not sure what to think of that, I just hope there isn't moldy food in there. But I guess it's more evidence that Ennis spent a lot of time in that chair.
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This is a great thread Carby! The thought of him sitting in the chair looking at the shirts just broke my heart. :\'( I have no idea what #1 or #6 are
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OMG! I just found this new thread. Thanks Carbyville for sharing... :^^)
I need to make my mind and get back here. After one year we still find more and more to discuss about this incredible movie masterpiece :)
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Looking carefully at Ennis' chair. I think that is a swiveling rocker. It is positioned in the picture to look at the closet , but would rotate to see the TV.
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Looking carefully at Ennis' chair. I think that is a swiveling rocker. It is positioned in the picture to look at the closet , but would rotate to see the TV.
That is a very good point too! The more responses I get the more I think that Ennis spent many hours in that chair.
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Looked through some more pictures to see if I could figure out what mysterious object #1 was.. still no luck but I came across something else in the trailer.
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg236.imageshack.us%2Fimg236%2F8154%2Fbrokebackmtn3906mn8.th.jpg&hash=aced8720f2ab05450e6bb8fb9fdc910cc0a194f6) (http://img236.imageshack.us/my.php?image=brokebackmtn3906mn8.jpg)
If you click that and make the picture bigger you will see on the stand next to the chair on the very bottom there seems to be a food container. Like a "doggy bag/box" you'd get at a restaurant. Not sure what to think of that, I just hope there isn't moldy food in there. But I guess it's more evidence that Ennis spent a lot of time in that chair.
I suspect that Ennis ate out a lot -- in cheap places, to minimize cost. to be sure. He probably got used to someone preparing his meals during his marriage with Alma. Also, the final scene with Cassie indicates that he would eat out alone.
Else, he did take-out frequently. Or he brought back leftovers for his next meal.
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Looking carefully at Ennis' chair. I think that is a swiveling rocker. It is positioned in the picture to look at the closet , but would rotate to see the TV.
Yes, I was thinking about asking this yesterday, becasue I was not sure. Could it also be a sort of recliner?
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I went thru the whole thread, very good obervations and I have nothing to say but...
A sad little TV to go with the sad little bed in a sad little trailer. I am sad. :(
Yup, I'm sad too :-\\ :\'(
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A sad little TV to go with the sad little bed in a sad little trailer. I am sad. :(
And while we are on this subject, the TV was propped up by crates, no? Not even a table for an entertainment center...
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Yes you're right and there is just one chair, Junior had to sit on the bed... when they drink wine, it's in two different models of glasses like the ones they use to sell full of mustard or nutella... A really sad setting for a poor lonesome Ennis. :(
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Pierre, I was wondering if someone can give trhe details about the glasses. Thanks for giving it here. The make-up of that scene and the set-up of the entire trailer speaks of Ennis, entirely. Wonderfully done.
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if you don't got nothin', then you don't need nothin' :-\\
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if you don't got nothin', then you don't need nothin' :-\\
That line is a killer :\'(
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if you don't got nothin', then you don't need nothin' :-\\
Perfect. This is Ennis to the marrow.
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if you don't got nothin', then you don't need nothin' :-\\
And if can't fix it you gotta stand it.. :\'(
I think we can do this also about Jack's room as well ! O0
What do say carby, do you have it numbered and all in your Livejournal ?
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(off topic) there is an old thread somewhere about Jack's room I guess, Thomas does it ring a bell? (end of off topic)
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(off topic) there is an old thread somewhere about Jack's room I guess, Thomas does it ring a bell? (end of off topic)
OT: Yes. I think there was talk about the objects. I'll try to find it...
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And if can't fix it you gotta stand it.. :\'(
I think we can do this also about Jack's room as well ! O0
What do say carby, do you have it numbered and all in your Livejournal ?
I will look through my pictures and see what I can come up with. If anyone finds the thread let me know I can post there. Another one I was thinking about doing was a comparison of Jack and Ennis's camps over the years and the evolution of them. We'll see where inspiration leads End of OTness.
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Has it struck anyone else that in this scene - the culmination of Ennis realization of what he has lost - that while everything seems to point to the emptiness of his life, there are still objects around him. Yet when we see Jack and Ennis together at the high points of their passion, the scenes are almost bare - FNIT, SNIT,
Reunion and last BBM. Hmmmm, perhaps another thread in the making...
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Has it struck anyone else that in this scene - the culmination of Ennis realization of what he has lost - that while everything seems to point to the emptiness of his life, there are still objects around him. Yet when we see Jack and Ennis together at the high points of their passion, the scenes are almost bare - FNIT, SNIT,
Reunion and last BBM. Hmmmm, perhaps another thread in the making...
Sounds like a contrast of the unimportance of material possesions vs the importance of connection, love and physicality between two humans.
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(off topic) there is an old thread somewhere about Jack's room I guess, Thomas does it ring a bell? (end of off topic)
Sorry for OT: One possibility is certainly http://ennisjack.com/index.php?topic=3102.msg60301#msg60301 where there is some discussion of the rommand contents. I am sure there are other such threads... If you want, you can append to this topic.
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Has it struck anyone else that in this scene - the culmination of Ennis realization of what he has lost - that while everything seems to point to the emptiness of his life, there are still objects around him. Yet when we see Jack and Ennis together at the high points of their passion, the scenes are almost bare - FNIT, SNIT,
Reunion and last BBM. Hmmmm, perhaps another thread in the making...
That's because they were each other's everything- they didn't need anything but each other :)
Yes perhaps another thread in the making.
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I had always wondered about the positioning of the bed relative to the "living room" and kitchen. I would assume that the bed was positioned where it is in order to minimize direct light coming from the windows. The chair. of course, is positioned so as to maximize access to light from the 2 adjacent windows at right angles during the daytime.
Still, I find it interesting that with the way the pillow is positioned, Ennis would have no view of the closet or the shirts when he lies down. This is in marked contrast to the chair, which certainly is well positioned for this exact purpose.
Why not the bed? After all, it is the seat of dreams (assuming he did not sleep in the chair during most nights). Perhaps this clashes with physical considerations. I find the bed's position quite awkward...
I've never participated in ennisjack except in the fanfiction threads, but I came this way through the weekly update and was fascinated by this particular discussion. Here's what I think about the bed positioning, or rather the *pillow* positioning. Most of the time, when you're in bed, it is dark. So Ennis wouldn't be able to see the shirts anyway. But...his head would be closer to the shirts this way, and the head (and heart) is the seat of consciousness. Most importantly, if the door were open and the shirts were exposed, he would literally be able to reach out and *touch* the shirts in the dark if he wanted to. Positioning his pillow this way brings him closer to the shirts in a physical sense during the hours he is asleep...or trying to sleep.
Also, it seems to me that with both the bed and the chair positioned to see outside that window, and with the emphasis given to the window as the last scene in the movie, that we need to look at the positioning of both relative to the outdoors. For me, this positioning emphasizes Ennis's separation from the rest of the (outside) world that we get anyway from the last scene. He can sit in the chair or recline on the bed and lift his eyes to what he can't be part of, to what he is separated from. This also leads to a feeling of being jailed, this separation, doesn't it? He has been handed a life-sentence that cannot be commuted, and he will forever be yearning for the outside, looking from his chair or his bed, yearning for what he cannot have. (whether through his own personality or the man he loves who is gone.)
This is a great thread and thanks to carbyville for getting it going. Really interesting!
Love,
Jenna
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THanks also Jenna for the wonderful thoughts.
There are no bars on that window, but you doo seem to feel the separation of Ennis from the outside. It is certainly not a forced separation. And it is more a separation born out of his deepest agony.
The head is the seat of dreams.
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I haven't read all the replies so forgive me if I step in someone elses shoes :) mostly for myself here...
I think the reason the shirts were inside the closet,as opposed to hanging in the breeze like in the SS, is if they were hanging outside the closet we would have seen them behind JR, thus spoiling the "surprise" it is to see them when we do, and it would also detrackt from the conversation between Ennis and Jr.
As for the chair. Where else would he put it? It is there because that is where there is room and it makes it in front of the tv. I think ENnis was a very practical man, and things would go where they fit.
I like the analysis but this is how I see it :)
And I dooooo like the idea that he could have the door open to the closet and sit in his chair, with the tv on and glance over at the shirts now and then. Mayby feel that Jack is there :)
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I haven't read all the replies so forgive me if I step in someone elses shoes :) mostly for myself here...
I think the reason the shirts were inside the closet,as opposed to hanging in the breeze like in the SS, is if they were hanging outside the closet we would have seen them behind JR, thus spoiling the "surprise" it is to see them when we do, and it would also detrackt from the conversation between Ennis and Jr.
As for the chair. Where else would he put it? It is there because that is where there is room and it makes it in front of the tv. I think ENnis was a very practical man, and things would go where they fit.
I like the analysis but this is how I see it :)
And I dooooo like the idea that he could have the door open to the closet and sit in his chair, with the tv on and glance over at the shirts now and then. Mayby feel that Jack is there :)
You're totally right there. No place else to put it, but really he didn't even need it at all. If he wanted to sit and watch TV there was the bed and there was the chair he sat in when Junior was over. It was a much smaller chair and could have been moved around instead of cluttering the small space even more with a recliner.
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Carby:
Great topic and really great analysis. Of course you’re absolutely right, this is just the way the set designers go through EVERTHING trying to decide what goes in and what goes out of the frame view to set the tone.
I think your analysis is pretty spot-on in terms of what you see and what its intention was in the frame. How interesting it would be to hear some inside information on this set and dozens of others in terms of how they were designed and developed.
You’ve said several times in your analysis how “sad” the whole view is and how sad it makes you feel. Yes, it does (I think that’s what the intention was). BUT the other side of this and to me the great BEAUTY of it and this view is this- poor sad Ennis doesn’t have a lot in his life in the way possessions (for an American anyway). But he does have ONE thing that many people don’t ever get in their lives, He KNOWS that there was someONE who once loved him and loved him deeply. There can be a lot of comfort and also sadness in that knowledge, and it is the signal event of his (of anyone’s’) life. The sadness of the view here makes the brilliance of “the shirts” penetrate it all like a beacon of love.
jackster
I agree particularly that the beauty of the positive aspects far outweight the "sad" elements. So many people see the glass half empty relative to the story; I think the glass is more than half full, and Ennis and Jack had more than most people have or hope to have!
regarding the scene dissection...it is fun and interesing to build a case for such nuances and hidden meanings that may have been intended, but having been on many sets and knowing how such scenes are set up, I bet dollars to donuts that the prop people had no such insights as are being discussed/put forth here. Props are used to fill space so the scene is interesting, add color to balance all aspects, add appropriate elements to make the scene look real, and overall provide a texture that is visually appealing. I am almost totally sure that the props numbered in the photo were just that. for example, where else would the chair have gone? there was no other direction for it to face, either. the scene works on many levels, and it is magificent. but, the depth of hidden meanings are, I think, not intended or real. In fact, a director strives, usually, to establish a scene so audiences absorb the meaning and purpose quickly. Lee would never have taken alot of time to do something no one would get. The props all work on a omnibus/macro level, and not purposed to be a mystery or puzzle. Sorry for being a cold water thrower, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it! Thanks!
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Thank you, Carbyville, for starting this interesting thread. I only saw it because it's mentioned in this week's newsletter.
A question comes to mind about the bed. Am I correct in remembering that when his daughter comes to visit and talk about getting married, she sits down on the bed ? Ennis gets 2 glasses from the kitchen area, on the other side of your photo, and sits there. Is that right ?
I ask because I agree with interpreting your photo as a "shrine" area. Ennis doesn't sit in that chair when he has visitors, he sits there to look at the shirts....
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Thank you, Carbyville, for starting this interesting thread. I only saw it because it's mentioned in this week's newsletter.
A question comes to mind about the bed. Am I correct in remembering that when his daughter comes to visit and talk about getting married, she sits down on the bed ? Ennis gets 2 glasses from the kitchen area, on the other side of your photo, and sits there. Is that right ?
I ask because I agree with interpreting your photo as a "shrine" area. Ennis doesn't sit in that chair when he has visitors, he sits there to look at the shirts....
That's correct, Stephan. There is another chair on the other end of the bed which is where Ennis sits when Junior is over.
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Okay. I like the "shrine" interpretation.
The other clues (11 and 12) are less convincing only because that chair seems to be the most comfortable one (not counting lying in bed which I like to do), therefore Ennis might sit in it and smoke and flip through junk mail even when he isn't in a "shrine" mood.
I would say, however, that when sitting i that chair, close to the shirts, it might seem that he's sitting in the room with Jack.... :\'(
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Don't see Ennis as the kinda guy who would "lounge" in a bed...
No comparing but read a story about Prince Charles and his dad once, Charlie was in bed reading and daddy came in the room and told his son that beds were for sleeping, if he was to read a book get up and sit in a chair...
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Don't see Ennis as the kinda guy who would "lounge" in a bed...
(...)
Nor do I really. Unfortunately, Ennis does seem to enjoy drinking, and the bed might be convenient to collapse in when he's drunk or half-drunk.
I also wonder what could be in the dirty glass near the bed. Probably water. If he woke in the middle of a warm night, he would drink water, not vodka, to cool off. Just speculating.
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This is a great thread Carby! Yes , as I look at the numbered picture, it suggests that Ennis spent alot of time in this part of the trailor. I am struck by the way Ennis "displays" the shirts too. He chooses to hang them on the inside door of the closet along with the postcard as opposed to hanging them inside on the bar. He has easy access to them when he wants. I would'nt put it past Ennis to have actual "converstions" with Jack through the shirts while sitting in the chair. He was so effected by this "treasure" that Jack left him. The way they are positioned it's if as Jack can be "standing" there in front of him at the height level . As we see , he can fuss with the buttons and such. ( still protecting and taking care of Jack if only in a memorium form.) But what strikes me also , which is not numbered is the hat hanging on what I assume is a nail. Ennis is rarley seen without wearing it. This suggests that to access it he has has to walk into this general area to retreive it on the way out ,or hang it back up. In any case ' it's in close proximity to the shirts. I think they speak to him on a daily basis. Thanks.
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Hi,
I'm not a an expert on these things, but when you spoke of the chair and the position of it, that is what got me when i first saw it. Look at the position of the chair, when you open the closet door, and the shirt and the postcard are hanging there, you see how he spends his nights, and I guess his life. Smoking, drinking, and thinking of Jack.
manhattangirl