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Characters, Quotes & Scenes / Re: “Water Walking Jesus”
« Last post by choompty on Sep 05, 2024, 01:01 PM »Thank you!! 
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Characters, Quotes & Scenes / Re: “Water Walking Jesus”
« Last post by FlwrChild on Aug 12, 2024, 02:29 PM »Good question!
I'll have to go check...
I'll have to go check...
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Characters, Quotes & Scenes / Re: "You may be a sinner, but I ain't yet had the opportunity"
« Last post by FlwrChild on Aug 12, 2024, 02:29 PM »Agreed. It could definitely mean that he was a virgin altogether or that he'd never had sex with another man.
My instinct was that he meant he hadn't yet had the opportunity for any type of sinning, meaning he was a virgin. Especially in the context of when that conversation occurred in terms of the development of their relationship. Intentional or not, he did seem to be a little shyly flirtatious, didn't he?
My instinct was that he meant he hadn't yet had the opportunity for any type of sinning, meaning he was a virgin. Especially in the context of when that conversation occurred in terms of the development of their relationship. Intentional or not, he did seem to be a little shyly flirtatious, didn't he?
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Characters, Quotes & Scenes / Re: Jack and Ennis description in the story
« Last post by FlwrChild on Aug 12, 2024, 02:23 PM »Very good points.
For as many times as I've seen the movie (a LOT) and read the book (a few), the image in my head when I read or think about them is somewhat different from both descriptives. I think it falls somewhere in the middle. Which works for me, because I think they could be anyone and somehow my mildly blurred visual imagining reflects that.
For as many times as I've seen the movie (a LOT) and read the book (a few), the image in my head when I read or think about them is somewhat different from both descriptives. I think it falls somewhere in the middle. Which works for me, because I think they could be anyone and somehow my mildly blurred visual imagining reflects that.
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Characters, Quotes & Scenes / Re: Brokeback What would happen if Ennis died instead of Jack?
« Last post by FlwrChild on Aug 12, 2024, 02:19 PM »What's crazy is that I don't know if I've ever thought about that but it's a fascinating question, isn't it?
I think you might be right, not because Jack loved Ennis any less than Ennis loved Jack but because there were two key things that were different between Ennis and Jack:
(1) Jack knew that he loved Ennis. It was clear that that’s what he was trying to tell Ennis in various ways across the years. Whereas Ennis was in a certain amount of denial about ‘this thing’ of theirs. He definitely compartmentalized his feelings. I don’t think he either understood the depth of Jack’s love for him or realized how much he loved Jack in return until he saw those shirts intertwined in that closet.
(2) Jack had already coped with the pain of losing Ennis in different ways across the years (the post divorce scene being a prime example). And knew that a day might come when Ennis said he just couldn’t do it anymore. So I think he’d been priming himself for that possibility and as such it might be less of a shock to his system. I know that death is different than just ending a relationship but I think that Jack might have been more prepared to not have Ennis in his life anymore.
In addition to that, there is the fact that Ennis realized his feelings for Jack too late to ever be able to tell him that he loved him, and that’s a weight that Jack wouldn’t have carried (because I think he'd made that evident all along).
On the flip side of all of this though is the fact that Laureen told Ennis that Jack had been drinking a lot. So maybe he really wasn’t coping very well and maybe losing Ennis permanently would have been his breaking point. In which case, sadly, I could see him simply drinking himself to death. Though it’s always possible that, as much as he would genuinely grieve for Ennis, knowing a life with him was no longer possible might free him in some way to seek that sweet life. But my heart tells me that for Jack, there was only one true sweet life and that could only be with Ennis. This was the case for both of them. It was both the beauty and the tragedy of their relationship.
I think you might be right, not because Jack loved Ennis any less than Ennis loved Jack but because there were two key things that were different between Ennis and Jack:
(1) Jack knew that he loved Ennis. It was clear that that’s what he was trying to tell Ennis in various ways across the years. Whereas Ennis was in a certain amount of denial about ‘this thing’ of theirs. He definitely compartmentalized his feelings. I don’t think he either understood the depth of Jack’s love for him or realized how much he loved Jack in return until he saw those shirts intertwined in that closet.
(2) Jack had already coped with the pain of losing Ennis in different ways across the years (the post divorce scene being a prime example). And knew that a day might come when Ennis said he just couldn’t do it anymore. So I think he’d been priming himself for that possibility and as such it might be less of a shock to his system. I know that death is different than just ending a relationship but I think that Jack might have been more prepared to not have Ennis in his life anymore.
In addition to that, there is the fact that Ennis realized his feelings for Jack too late to ever be able to tell him that he loved him, and that’s a weight that Jack wouldn’t have carried (because I think he'd made that evident all along).
On the flip side of all of this though is the fact that Laureen told Ennis that Jack had been drinking a lot. So maybe he really wasn’t coping very well and maybe losing Ennis permanently would have been his breaking point. In which case, sadly, I could see him simply drinking himself to death. Though it’s always possible that, as much as he would genuinely grieve for Ennis, knowing a life with him was no longer possible might free him in some way to seek that sweet life. But my heart tells me that for Jack, there was only one true sweet life and that could only be with Ennis. This was the case for both of them. It was both the beauty and the tragedy of their relationship.
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Characters, Quotes & Scenes / Re: why didn,t Ennis let jake stay in the divorce sence?
« Last post by FlwrChild on Aug 12, 2024, 01:17 PM »I see it as one of many miscommunications between Jack and Ennis. Jack, being the overly hopeful person he is, interpreted the message of Ennis's divorce as a possible turning point in their relationship. Without his family holding him back so much, there's a chance they could give it a real shot, right?
Jack has always been willing to leave his life as early as 1967, when at that point he already has a wife and a kid. It might be that since Ennis is so closed off, Jack just can't understand his logic. It's one of the most important scenes in the movie for sure, really highlighting the difference between the characters.
Perfectly said.
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Characters, Quotes & Scenes / Re: Jack and Ennis description in the story
« Last post by skyismental on Aug 09, 2024, 06:05 AM »Trying to get BBM produced at the time was already difficult, and I think if they cast unattractive actors it would've been harder to market to audiences. While I love Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaal in the roles I prefer the book descriptions of Jack and Ennis.
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Characters, Quotes & Scenes / Re: why didn,t Ennis let jake stay in the divorce sence?
« Last post by skyismental on Aug 08, 2024, 09:06 PM »I see it as one of many miscommunications between Jack and Ennis. Jack, being the overly hopeful person he is, interpreted the message of Ennis's divorce as a possible turning point in their relationship. Without his family holding him back so much, there's a chance they could give it a real shot, right?
Jack has always been willing to leave his life as early as 1967, when at that point he already has a wife and a kid. It might be that since Ennis is so closed off, Jack just can't understand his logic. It's one of the most important scenes in the movie for sure, really highlighting the difference between the characters.
Jack has always been willing to leave his life as early as 1967, when at that point he already has a wife and a kid. It might be that since Ennis is so closed off, Jack just can't understand his logic. It's one of the most important scenes in the movie for sure, really highlighting the difference between the characters.
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Characters, Quotes & Scenes / Re: thoughts on headcanons?
« Last post by skyismental on Aug 08, 2024, 08:43 PM »I'm autistic myself, and I do relate heavily to Ennis, but I don't personally think he's autistic. I think it's just a mix of the typical quiet cowboy type, and his lonely upbringing. Interesting perspective though. 
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Characters, Quotes & Scenes / Re: "You may be a sinner, but I ain't yet had the opportunity"
« Last post by bloodless_moon on Jul 23, 2024, 06:38 PM »I won’t say my interpretation is the correct one, but I always saw it as Ennis admitting that he was a virgin. There’s a million little bits and pieces to the scene for me, like Jack probably implying that they were sinners because of their sexuality (or at least regarding himself), and that maybe Ennis’ response to his comment made him enough confidence to act upon his feelings during TS1. All in all, I saw that line as Ennis saying he was a virgin as they both came from religious upbringings and premarital sex would have been a sin. Especially when we see that Alma got pregnant almost immediately after being married (if they were messing around before that, she probably would have gotten pregnant before they were married). Thats how I always took the line, but I’m sure there’s other ways of reading it, too!Oh I like this interpretation! Since Ennis is estranged from his family I’m not really sure he would be bound by the restrictions surrounding premarital sex but Alma would be. It could also be that Jack meant he ‘sinned’ by having sex with other men but Ennis hadn’t…. yet. That flirtatious wink lol.