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You are welcome!

What we see in the movie could be very different in real life. Obviously, Jake Gyllenhall is a very good looking man. I don't recall any physical description of Jack in the short story. Jack could well be just an average looking guy.

however I do not understand when he started to be aware that Jack is... someone he wants not just emotionally but also sexually.

I am not sure if Ennis wanted Jack sexually but alcohol definitely inhibited his judgement. I think we can see Ennis felt remorse after the FNIT scene and tried to avoid Jack. However, it is not clear whether his avoidance was due to FNIT or his realization that he may be fallen in love with Jack. It is perhaps both because second night in tent showed that he had surrendered to Jack.
Thanks for your answer.

I red the SS a long time ago and I did not remember that Jack narrates the episode of his father urinating on him to Ennis. Thanks for shedding light on it.

I am, shamelessy, a Jack's girl and I have some issues with

The fact that Ennis knew of that abuse and, anyway, kept on behaving like that to Jack (rejecting his love) makes me even more sad. He knew Jack was emotionally broken...and he broke him even more. John humiliated Jack to the point he had surely a low self esteem. By sending him away in the after divorce scene Ennis only hurts and humiliates Jack more: he makes him believe he is worth nothing and that the only thing he can do to have physical connection is paying for sex.

He is also psychologically violent after FNIT when he refuses to even say a word to Jack after they had sex. Ennis was the one penetrating. Sorry if I am graphic but he orgasmed in Jack's body after having taken him roughly. He does not even think about the possibility that maybe he hurt Jack. Maybe Jack is hurt. Maybe he is bleeding. Ennis is shocked, ok... but they are in that thing together and he only find courage to talk to him afterwards...holding a gun to feel strong. Jack is brave as only people who have known violence too well are. He just lays there and speaks as naturally as he can. Not knowing what Ennis will do. I think Jack considered the idea that Ennis may have wanted to beat him or worst.

Moreover, in the final confortation scene, Ennis says that he can kill Jack for possessiveness and that's so sick because he only claims him as his for a matter of possession, like Jack is an object. Not because he returns his love. That make Jack snap...and makes me sick and sad.

I wonder if he ever noticed belt scars on jack's lovely skin. I want to think he kissed them.

And I share with you the idea that Ennis was traumatized too by his father. However Ennis father took him to see a very dramatic and terrible situation (Earl s corpse) but did not hurt him directly and physically in the same cruel way John did to Jack.

I also think Ennio should have been more sensitive and understanding of jack s abusive past and becoming more caring and protective... sadly he did not. He knew all along and... it was ok for him if a man urinated on Jack when he was a child. Maybe it was the mindset of the 60s-70s...I really don't understand. If it happened to my lover it would have affected me everyday to be a better person and partner.
Thanks for your answer. I understand your point of view but I cannot totally agree.
I agree that Ennis was moved by emotions and then, secondly, by physical attraction. However, I also think he was the one who topped in FNIT, their first time. I mean...He was...hard ... possibly because he wanted Jack physically. So he found him pretty at point he wanted to have a sexual encounter where he was the one doing the penetrative act... ok he was drunk but sometimes alchol frees  subconscious desire.... however I do not understand when he started to be aware that Jack is... someone he wants not just emotionally but also sexually.
I also wonder if he is aware of the fact that Jack is good looking for women and other men. I am sure that Jack knows  that Ennis is a good looking man...
I wonder if he ever considered how beautiful are Jack's eye, lips, skin, body, etc.
Hi loki6783,  #$#

It is an interesting question. I personally found both Ennis and Jack attractive in the movie.  ;D Jack definitely is more comfortable with his sexual orientation than Ennis for the reasons which you have pointed out and also his trip to Mexico.

Ennis, other the other hand is "curious" and perhaps was never curious until he met Jack. His attraction to Jack evolved and took time from barely speaking to Jack to their intimate second night in tent. I guess his attraction to Jack was more emotional whereas Jack's attraction to Ennis started more physical.

Definitely, human attraction is very fluid and complex. Some start love at the first sight but some take time.
Hi Loki and  #$#

In the short story as Ennis is making his way up to Jack's room, he recalls the story Jack told him about the bathroom incident with his father. In the movie & SS Ennis shares the story of Rich and Earl. Both men were traumatized by their fathers in their formative years. I think that Jack's early years and his treatment by his father may have made him cling to Ennis a little more. That's not to imply that he was "clingy" or even needy but rather he felt love and he was going to fight for it.

Ennis, despite being shown what happened to Earl, was still able to give in to his feelings for Jack. Sadly he was only able to be free while they were secluded away. I don't believe that Jack wanted them to hold hands in public or announce their love to the world but Ennis was fearful of even ranching up together.

I think Ennis loved Jack and there was a part of him that would have run away to ranch up with Jack in a second. Sadly that was in direct conflict to the "lesson" his father taught him as a young boy. IMO, fear was stronger than love. I don't think it was necessarily fear for himself but rather something happening to Jack. That is one layer of the tragedy in this story- no matter which version you believe- murder or accident (I believe he was murdered)-Ennis' fear of losing Jack came to fruition & Jack died alone on a back road. I think Jack's death made him truly accept that it was love that he felt for Jack and that's what allowed him to go to Lightning Flat- outing himself be damned- to try to honor Jack's wish.
I wonder if Jack ever told Ennis what his father has done to him.
John was so cruel, violent and humiliating towards Jack.  :_(
I mean, in the SS he hit him with a belt and peed on him. Jack was only a child. This is a trauma, a big one. And it lived inside Jack's heart, even when he was with Ennis.
He was traumatized: in fact, he was not scared by, sex as bottom, are fitting exampes: some may say he was brave, I say he did not scare easily because he grew up dealing with a deep fear of that monster father he had.
I hate so much this happened to him.
Maybe, in some way, being loved by Ennis also gave him back some fatherly bond he had never experienced. IMO, Ennis always seems more mature than him.
I think Ennis did not know Jack was a victim of abuse. I think Jack was too ashamed to really speak about it with him. Ennis may have interpreted it as weakness. Jack did not want to appear weak in Ennis' eyes.
However, I wonder how would Ennis react if he knew?
Would he have behaved differently towards Jack, if he knew?
I don't mean he had to feel pity for him or be compassionate, but, maybe, understanding that Jack was abused as a child may have helped Ennis understanding Jack's deep need for love and his requests for being together.
Characters, Quotes & Scenes / Re: Is Jack John Jr.?
« Last post by @loki6783 on Feb 11, 2022, 06:31 AM »
I do not know because I'm not american...However, I think it could be.
I think that we are prone to see Jack's mom as a loving and comforting figure.
However, she had probably sided up with John's all of her life. Of course, in the 60s-70s being a woman there, with a violent and omophobic husband and a gay son she loved so much had to be a nightmare so I do not blame her. She was probably going trough hell.
Probably she wanted them to bond. But how could she want him to bond with a husband who had pee on him (from the SS)?
Also, maybe it is another topics, did Ennis know how violent John was to Jack, physically and psychologically?
Did Jack ever tell him? How did he react?

IMO the movie clearly shows that Jack finds Ennis gorgeous. For example, when they first meet: I think he looks at him with interest and then he shaves for him. At the bar Jack checks him out a lot. Then, on the mountain, there's the scene when he smokes and Ennis is naked in the background. Jack finds him so handsome that he is blushing and avoiding looking at him.
But what about Ennis?
He is less explicit and I have troubles understanding the exact moments his mind was like "OMG my little darlin Jack is SO pretty!"...
My heart broke when he rejected Jack, for instance. There I tought he was less fisically interested than Jack.
I was like: "Really? Don't you see how cute and sexy he is? Are you dumb? Aren't you scared other men notice him? Because other men totally notice Jack."
What do you think?

Hi all  :h},
I am new here. Thanks for this beautiful opportunity to speak about this great movie. I wish I had discovered it many years ago.
Anyway… I would rewrite the final part. *Brace yourself, cause I’m pretty angsty. Also, be kind, English is not my mother language*
What if Jack does not die. He gets his sweet life… With Randall.
Jack answers to last Ennis postcard saying he cannot be there in November. He also adds that he divorced from Laureen and he’s moving elsewhere. Without saying where. So, Ennis…Waits. And waits. And months pass and there is no news from Jack. Then he phones Laureen, but she is not exactly happy to hear from him: Jack confessed everything about Ennis and him and asked for divorce, so she is not “friendly with Ennis”. Maybe she gets angry or cries how much he hates them both. But she also says that…She hates Randall way more than Ennis because he took Jack away.
Ennis learns that Jack has someone else and firstly he accepts it. A year passes. It is deep and painful. He tries to get comfort in the idea that Jack is happy. However, the idea that he is living with another man gets him jealous and possessive. He fights back this feeling convincing himself that he only needs to make sure that Jack is alright, that he is not taking stupid risks with his new life choices.
So… he goes to Lighting Flat to investigate where Jack has moved. Jack’s parents’ scene is almost the same as the original script. But they are not sad(mother)/angry(father) because Jack died…They are sad/angry because Jack has moved far away from them, to live his life with another man. They tell him exactly where he moved to (maybe Canada, maybe Mexico, far anyway…). John Twist cannot accept it. He provokes Ennis and has the same hateful attitude. Jack’s mother’s, however, sees how much Ennis is suffering and she knew about him. She knew he was Jack’s lover, and she remembers his hopes, his suffering, his affection for Ennis Del Mar. She gives him the shirts as in the original script.
Ennis goes home and he reverses and hugs the two shirts, discovering how deep Jack love was. He understands he failed at reciprocating, he failed in sensitivity, he failed in pursuing happiness together. So, he only wants to tell Jack he is sorry. He saves some money and drives to the place where Jack had moved to. He asks everyone for finding the exact address of Jack and goes there.
Only Randall is home. He seems kind. He opens the door and implicitly, even before Ennis speaks out his name, he knows who he is. The man who disappointed Jack for 20 years and broke his hearts. He lets him in. The house is nice, clean, and welcoming. They have a little farm. He says Jack is not there cause he has taken their dog to the vet. He makes Ennis some coffee. Ennis almost does not speak. It is like he has lost the courage: while driving, he imagined saying to Randall to f*** off cause Jack is his, cause they love each other. But now, in that house, it seems impossible. He asks how Jack is doing. And Randall tells him that Jack is alright and safe.
Ennis: “Did he ever tell you about Brokeback Mountain?”.
Randall: “We have been there last summer”.
Ennis: “It was…our place, you know?”.
Randall: “Yes, I know.” He breaths “Jack loved you so much. It was difficult for him.”
They are both so awkward. It is embarrassing.
Ennis drinks his coffee, thanks Randall and heads for the door. He turns only to say: “Could you tell Jack that I swear to him…” and Randall is like “What?” and Ennis shakes his head and mumbles “Nothing”.
He goes home and cries in front of the shirts in the closet.

The End

Jack!team :cr) Ennis!team  ~)
Forum Newsletters / Re: Forum will not close as announced
« Last post by froggy on Feb 02, 2022, 05:13 AM »
:cr) :cr)

Happy to keep it and thanks for throwing some logs to keep the campfire going!!

Happy to bring some tea/coffee 😂
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