Author Topic: ennis/hotel  (Read 30666 times)

Offline tpe

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Re: ennis/hotel
« Reply #30 on: Nov 15, 2006, 08:07 AM »
It would have been quite awkward if Alma had suggested that they stay in for the night drinking and that she would cook dinner for them!  Had they stayed, they would have been in a very difficult situation!  :)


Offline welshwitch

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Re: ennis/hotel
« Reply #31 on: Nov 15, 2006, 12:30 PM »
A cleverer and stronger character than Alma appears to be might have quite deliberately welcomed Jack in and put them both in the embarrassing position of having to say they wanted to avoid her company and  come up with a rather better explanation than staying out all night drinking - in Riverton??? Where? I always thought that was a pretty feeble excuse.

Offline ksxks

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Re: ennis/hotel
« Reply #32 on: Nov 15, 2006, 02:54 PM »
A cleverer and stronger character than Alma appears to be might have quite deliberately welcomed Jack in and put them both in the embarrassing position of having to say they wanted to avoid her company and  come up with a rather better explanation than staying out all night drinking - in Riverton??? Where? I always thought that was a pretty feeble excuse.

Well, what we used to do is get beer or liquor and drive out to the boondocks someplace and drink -- that's the kind of thing these young folk around Riverton might do.

Funny what you said how Alma could have been, if she'd been different -- after seeing them kissing, she could have insisted on them staying there, and even Jack staying overnight on the couch, etc.  What a scene that would have been!  (And then she could have been all hot for Ennis that night in bed -- oh no.)

And you're right, WW, and everyone else, about the motel being just anonymous.  Little danger of Ennis being seen in the truck or parking lot or going in or out of the room.

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Offline aintfoolin

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Re: ennis/hotel
« Reply #33 on: Nov 15, 2006, 03:42 PM »
Yeah, I can see Ennis sneaking out into the living room in the middle of the night!! uh huh, Uh huh. Naw just kiddin. I'm suprised that they made it to a motel. I half expected the next scene to be out in some dark secluded spot in Jack's truck.
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Offline lamusica

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Re: ennis/hotel
« Reply #34 on: Nov 24, 2006, 06:45 PM »
A cleverer and stronger character than Alma appears to be might have quite deliberately welcomed Jack in and put them both in the embarrassing position of having to say they wanted to avoid her company and  come up with a rather better explanation than staying out all night drinking - in Riverton??? Where? I always thought that was a pretty feeble excuse.


Sorry to disagree, but....
 A cleverer and smarter Alma would have kicked Ennis' ass out after having seen him and Jack kissing downstairs.  I can't imagine any woman welcoming Jack in under those circumstances.  Love isn't a game; sex either.  I think the story unfolds just exactly as it has to.  Ennis couldn't risk being seen with Jack, so a near-by motel is the only answer, IMHO.
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Offline aintfoolin

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Re: ennis/hotel
« Reply #35 on: Nov 24, 2006, 07:35 PM »
I see what WW is getting at I think as this would force Ennis to come up with something better to explain why he might not be back that night. Am I right? Ennis, being married to her owed a better explanation than this. He would have been on the hotseat to sweat it out.  What she'ed said" I insist on going with you."?  A little sleepy town like Riverton , the bars (or bar) would have last call way before the night was done. How would he explain where they went after the bars close? If Alma had been more forceful after what she'd seen, Ennis  would have a lot more to answer to when he  got back  home.
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Offline welshwitch

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Re: ennis/hotel
« Reply #36 on: Nov 25, 2006, 05:38 PM »
Yes, aintfoolin, that's what I meant. She saw the reunion; if she had been less shocked and iincapable of understanding and dealing with what she'd seen she might have realized that jAck was a threat she had to try to counter, and she couldn't do that by just letting Ennis walk out with him and casually say that they might be out all night.

And while it's true that love isn't a game, though the pretence of love can be, sex is certainly a game, though I think not one in which Alma was a very savvy player.

Offline lamusica

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Re: ennis/hotel
« Reply #37 on: Nov 25, 2006, 09:32 PM »
Yes, aintfoolin, that's what I meant. She saw the reunion; if she had been less shocked and iincapable of understanding and dealing with what she'd seen she might have realized that jAck was a threat she had to try to counter, and she couldn't do that by just letting Ennis walk out with him and casually say that they might be out all night.

And while it's true that love isn't a game, though the pretence of love can be, sex is certainly a game, though I think not one in which Alma was a very savvy player.

Now I understand better what you meant.  When you said had Alma been "stronger", I didn't know you meant shocked.  I agree, she was just simply too shocked to do anything but stand there holding onto her elbows, shivering in the wake of what she had seen and what that meant to her marriage.  Sorry for the misunderstanding, WW.
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Offline Audrey twist

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Re: ennis/hotel
« Reply #38 on: Nov 28, 2006, 04:45 AM »
Ennis is feeling good in the hotel because beside him have his only love %) %) %) %) %) <^( <^( <^( #)
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Offline aintfoolin

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Re: ennis/hotel
« Reply #39 on: Nov 28, 2006, 07:05 AM »
I don't think Ennis would be so eager to jump Alma while Jack was sleeping (or not sleeping ) in the next room.
Their whole point at that time was to distance themselves from Alma asap. A horse could have checked in and not be noticed at this place. It's dark, secluded and probably cause its fall,  practically deserted. Besides if Ennis started drinking whiskey  in the truck he probably did'nt give a damn anyway. He was so hot for Jack (and vice-verse) that he almost took him in the middle of the street for Christ sake!.
 Regarding Alma:    She was dealt a bad hand and did'nt play her cards right. Duh. Rant over.
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Offline Audrey twist

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Re: ennis/hotel
« Reply #40 on: Nov 28, 2006, 07:22 AM »
                                           %) <^( #) :h) hallo Aintfoolin ^f^ :f) :c)
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Offline tpe

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Re: ennis/hotel
« Reply #41 on: Nov 28, 2006, 08:49 AM »
Yes, I do think Ennis and Jack could have done it in the truck -- parked at some secluded rest stop or something.  I think they could have been much less cautious after the 4 years of drought.  In this light, renting a motel room was quite cautious and certainly carried minimal risk of being found out -- compared to other possibilities, that is.

Offline lamusica

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Re: ennis/hotel
« Reply #42 on: Nov 28, 2006, 06:57 PM »
I think Annie used the hotel scene for character development more than anything.  Loving in the truck would have been quick, uncomfortable, over and out.  Loving in the hotel was relaxing, invited pillowtalk, in which the two guys could get some things out in the open.  Jack still professed his desire to be together; Ennis still explained why he couldn't go along with that.  They recouped their ease being with each other quietly, alone, all to themselves.  That's why I think it had to be a motel-- not the truck.
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Offline CrimsonSky

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Re: ennis/hotel
« Reply #43 on: Nov 29, 2006, 09:20 AM »
Yes, aintfoolin, that's what I meant. She saw the reunion; if she had been less shocked and iincapable of understanding and dealing with what she'd seen she might have realized that jAck was a threat she had to try to counter, and she couldn't do that by just letting Ennis walk out with him and casually say that they might be out all night.

And while it's true that love isn't a game, though the pretence of love can be, sex is certainly a game, though I think not one in which Alma was a very savvy player.

I think Alma's reaction (or lack thereof) in letting Ennis go off with Jack was also partly to do with the way marriage worked in those days, the man was "in charge" and the women just had to put up with it, if Ennis said he was going out and staying out all night, it wasn't Alma's place to question it. Like in the grocery store, where Ennis's job has to come before Alma's, because he's the man so his job is more important :X It would be very different in this day and age, thankfully :)

Having said that, Alma does attempt to confront the situation the following morning, after she'd had all night to think about it, by suggesting Jack come in for a coffee, but of course Ennis was having none of it, though I think that's just because he didn't want to waste any more time than was absolutely neccesary before going off with Jack, rather than because he thought Alma might have some sort of ulterior motive. And in the longer term, Alma does start to stand up for herself more after that, like when Ennis wants her to stay at home and she just ignores him and goes to work anyway. I think Alma thought if Ennis wasn't going to behave like a "proper" husband, why should she behave like a "proper" wife.
There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe, but nothing could be done about it, and if you can't fix it you've got to stand it.

Offline tpe

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Re: ennis/hotel
« Reply #44 on: Nov 29, 2006, 09:24 AM »
I think Annie used the hotel scene for character development more than anything.  Loving in the truck would have been quick, uncomfortable, over and out.  Loving in the hotel was relaxing, invited pillowtalk, in which the two guys could get some things out in the open.  Jack still professed his desire to be together; Ennis still explained why he couldn't go along with that.  They recouped their ease being with each other quietly, alone, all to themselves.  That's why I think it had to be a motel-- not the truck.

So true -- it was not just a question of sex.  I guess this is one reason that the movie chose to show what came after -- when they were relaxed, happy being with each other, and at ease.

Offline tpe

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Re: ennis/hotel
« Reply #45 on: Nov 29, 2006, 09:31 AM »
I think Alma's reaction (or lack thereof) in letting Ennis go off with Jack was also partly to do with the way marriage worked in those days, the man was "in charge" and the women just had to put up with it, if Ennis said he was going out and staying out all night, it wasn't Alma's place to question it. Like in the grocery store, where Ennis's job has to come before Alma's, because he's the man so his job is more important :X It would be very different in this day and age, thankfully :)

Having said that, Alma does attempt to confront the situation the following morning, after she'd had all night to think about it, by suggesting Jack come in for a coffee, but of course Ennis was having none of it, though I think that's just because he didn't want to waste any more time than was absolutely neccesary before going off with Jack, rather than because he thought Alma might have some sort of ulterior motive. And in the longer term, Alma does start to stand up for herself more after that, like when Ennis wants her to stay at home and she just ignores him and goes to work anyway. I think Alma thought if Ennis wasn't going to behave like a "proper" husband, why should she behave like a "proper" wife.

Very interesting point, CrimsonSky.  Yes, who knows what would have happened had Jack come up for coffee.  I don't really know whether she would be overtly confrontational, but perhaps she would have used the opportunity to make sure that her presence is not ignored -- or perhaps try to come in between them, in a way, asserting her role and precedence as Ennis's wife...

Offline CrimsonSky

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Re: ennis/hotel
« Reply #46 on: Nov 29, 2006, 09:43 AM »


Very interesting point, CrimsonSky.  Yes, who knows what would have happened had Jack come up for coffee.  I don't really know whether she would be overtly confrontational, but perhaps she would have used the opportunity to make sure that her presence is not ignored -- or perhaps try to come in between them, in a way, asserting her role and precedence as Ennis's wife...

Yes, that's what I meant, I don't think she would be confrontational in a "you stay the hell away from my man!!" kind of way, but maybe questioned them both about where they'd been the previous night,in a casual sort of way, to see their reactions, and how they interacted with each other.Or maybe she would have tried to embarrass Jack by asking about his wife and baby, but in a way that came across as if she was just being polite. All just speculation of course, but I get the feeling Alma could be quite sly if she wanted to (the note on the fishing line springs to mind).
There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe, but nothing could be done about it, and if you can't fix it you've got to stand it.

Offline tpe

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Re: ennis/hotel
« Reply #47 on: Nov 29, 2006, 09:47 AM »
Yes, that's what I meant, I don't think she would be confrontational in a "you stay the hell away from my man!!" kind of way, but maybe questioned them both about where they'd been the previous night,in a casual sort of way, to see their reactions, and how they interacted with each other.Or maybe she would have tried to embarrass Jack by asking about his wife and baby, but in a way that came across as if she was just being polite. All just speculation of course, but I get the feeling Alma could be quite sly if she wanted to (the note on the fishing line springs to mind).

I do think she was desperate at that moment.  If she had a way of making Ennis back out of the fishing trip, I am sure she would have done it.  I think when she watched them drive away from the window -- in tears -- she knew there and then that she had lost Ennis forever.


Offline welshwitch

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Re: ennis/hotel
« Reply #48 on: Nov 29, 2006, 02:18 PM »
Yes, the note on the fishing line was just for confirmation - once she found out her suspicions were right she apparently made no reference to them for years after. You only have to look at how driven Ennis appears, how grimly determined, how little time he has for her or his daughters, how quickly he grabs the minimum and goes, to lknow that Alma has almost no power at all when Jack is there.
« Last Edit: Dec 03, 2006, 10:25 AM by welshwitch »

Offline aintfoolin

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Re: ennis/hotel
« Reply #49 on: Nov 29, 2006, 02:26 PM »
She even continued to have sexual relations with him knowing what she knew.
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Offline tpe

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Re: ennis/hotel
« Reply #50 on: Nov 30, 2006, 11:43 AM »
She even continued to have sexual relations with him knowing what she knew.

She leads a life of quiet desperation.

Offline aintfoolin

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Re: ennis/hotel
« Reply #51 on: Dec 02, 2006, 11:51 PM »
 Yeah, she could have caused BIG problems for both of them ( including contacting Lureen) if she had a mind to. Thank goodness she handled it the way she did. I don't think she really wanted Jack up for coffee. She was desperate to keep Ennis with her a little longer that's all.
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Offline tpe

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Re: ennis/hotel
« Reply #52 on: Dec 04, 2006, 09:58 AM »
Yeah, she could have caused BIG problems for both of them ( including contacting Lureen) if she had a mind to. Thank goodness she handled it the way she did. I don't think she really wanted Jack up for coffee. She was desperate to keep Ennis with her a little longer that's all.

I am struck by your last statement.  INdeed, it could have been just that.