Topic: "It's because of you, Jack, that I'm like this. I'm nothin'. I'm nowhere."

[JerBear418720]

Ennis's line has another meaning for me : it really does mean that Jack is the answer, as well as part of the tragedy. That is, Ennis doesn't love men in general. He loves Jack, period. That's why Jack is the answer, not the fact of having just any male lover.

Add to this the fact that Ennis is terrified of being abandoned (his parents died, his siblings could not make a place for him anymore, Alma divorced him), and you get a complete explanation for why he stood there looking "heartshot" and finally collapsed.

[jagrafess]

I think when Ennis blurts out that "because of you..." line he's admitting to himself for the first time that Jack really means everything to him.  As has been said previously, Ennis has essentially sacrificed his "life" for Jack Twist - kept himself aloof and distant from society, had to avoid any chance of prosperity or security, and absolutely abandon any hope of finding companionship in conventional ways.  There's a sense that Ennis felt that he gave everything he could to Jack yet it still wasn't enough.  "I'm nothing, nowhere" - Ennis is saying he's lost his identity in a world with such defined roles for males - he doesn't know who the hell he is anymore and as far as he's concerned it's all because he fell in love with Jack Twist in 1963.  When he pleads to Jack that he can't stand it anymore, I think it's more the confusion over his identity than anything else. 

There's a strange pause in the movie after Ennis bends to his knees as it shifts to a more deliberate pace.  I think both men know at this point that they may not see each other again - but probably not exactly why.  I don't doubt that the love is still strong between them but the reality of their future does not look good.  Jack seems to have found someone else to get off with at lower altitudes, whilst Ennis seems to have had just about as much as he can take of being the lonely drifter unable to put down roots. 

I agree that Ennis isn't "gay" - he just loves Jack and no one else, male or female.  Jack, though, is probably "gay" - he actively seeks sexual pleasure from other men.  One wonders, had these two made it together, whether Jack would be able to remain true to Ennis (over time) and indeed as the 1980's how both men would have coped with the unfolding tragedy and stigma of AIDS.  Imagine if Jack caught something?  Ennis would have really struggled IMHO. 

[stephan]

I agree with that, jagrafess. However:

There's a strange pause in the movie after Ennis bends to his knees as it shifts to a more deliberate pace.  I think both men know at this point that they may not see each other again - but probably not exactly why.  I don't doubt that the love is still strong between them but the reality of their future does not look good.

Both of them knew that they had to accept more compromise. Jack had to understand Ennis's fears more, Ennis had to understand Jack's desire more. What were they going to do ?
As for not seeing each other again - that is not an option, imho.  :'(

[jagrafess]

I agree with that, jagrafess. However:

There's a strange pause in the movie after Ennis bends to his knees as it shifts to a more deliberate pace.  I think both men know at this point that they may not see each other again - but probably not exactly why.  I don't doubt that the love is still strong between them but the reality of their future does not look good.

Both of them knew that they had to accept more compromise. Jack had to understand Ennis's fears more, Ennis had to understand Jack's desire more. What were they going to do ?
As for not seeing each other again - that is not an option, imho.  :'(

Well I think, certainly, Ennis is hopeful of seeing Jack again - he obviously sends an invitation for fishing which comes back stamped "Deceased".  But Jack, in his own way (remember the beans) seems to have sought other arrangements in life (was going to take another guy to whip Lightning Flat into shape).  I absolutely believe that Jack wanted to build a life with another man - preferably Ennis, but as he'd been rejected in that regard so often, anyone else would do.  Just what that would have meant for the future relationship?  Well, IMHO, Jack may have continued to see Ennis without ever telling him about Randall.   Just like with Lureen he was good at telling lies.  Safe in the knowledge that Ennis would never step too far away from his "coffee pot" or commit to anything more with Jack, Jack may have settled for Randall but also continued to enjoy the "no strings" dalliances with Ennis. A compromise could very well have been possible.  Back in 1963 they reached a successful compromise over shooting the sheep for food (Ennis shot a Moose not a sheep, as Jack had initially suggested), but somehow I don't think Ennis could have gone any further that he already had done, and Jack could not hang around waiting to have his offer of a great life together rejected once again by Ennis. Personally, I think they'd compromised more than enough up until that point. I love the characterisations in Brokeback Mountain - we can speculate forever about their motivations, but it's all based on every nuance we've seen on screen.  Which is part of the triumph IMO.

[stephan]

I love the characterisations in Brokeback Mountain - we can speculate forever about their motivations, but it's all based on every nuance we've seen on screen.  Which is part of the triumph IMO.

So so true !! And of course, my interpretations are determined by personal hopes and deceptions... BBM means so much to millions of people in part because Ennis and Jack are not 2-dimensional stereotypical characters.

[roguejedi]

Jack seems to have found someone else to get off with at lower altitudes, whilst Ennis seems to have had just about as much as he can take of being the lonely drifter unable to put down roots. 

I agree that Ennis isn't "gay" - he just loves Jack and no one else, male or female.  Jack, though, is probably "gay" - he actively seeks sexual pleasure from other men.  One wonders, had these two made it together, whether Jack would be able to remain true to Ennis (over time) and indeed as the 1980's how both men would have coped with the unfolding tragedy and stigma of AIDS.  Imagine if Jack caught something?  Ennis would have really struggled IMHO. 

Wow, the way you paint Jack, im surprised that "jack lovers" haven't crucified u yet...u know, in a way, i agree with you...there were times, when i doubt if jack really loved ennis, or jack just loved men in general... i didn't like how the movie showcase his promiscuity...but then...it was just a way to portray jack's lost and frustrations...  man, this movie is sooooooo deep :-)

drew

[jagrafess]

Jack seems to have found someone else to get off with at lower altitudes, whilst Ennis seems to have had just about as much as he can take of being the lonely drifter unable to put down roots. 

I agree that Ennis isn't "gay" - he just loves Jack and no one else, male or female.  Jack, though, is probably "gay" - he actively seeks sexual pleasure from other men.  One wonders, had these two made it together, whether Jack would be able to remain true to Ennis (over time) and indeed as the 1980's how both men would have coped with the unfolding tragedy and stigma of AIDS.  Imagine if Jack caught something?  Ennis would have really struggled IMHO. 

Wow, the way you paint Jack, im surprised that "jack lovers" haven't crucified u yet...u know, in a way, i agree with you...there were times, when i doubt if jack really loved ennis, or jack just loved men in general... i didn't like how the movie showcase his promiscuity...but then...it was just a way to portray jack's lost and frustrations...  man, this movie is sooooooo deep :-)

drew

Oh don't get me wrong. I love Jack!

I think Jack loved Ennis profoundly - kinda once in a lifetime kick in the guts love.  Otherwise why else would he keep going on those fishing trips still hoping and longing for Ennis.  Nah, make no mistake - Jack was in love.  Only when Ennis rejects him straight after the divorce does Jack step back and go looking for something else.  I think Ennis hurt him deeply and his only way of getting over that pain was to start looking elsewhere for intimacy.  Isn't that what anyone would do?  Jack's a charmer - handsome and brimming with charisma.  He likes people and as a rule people like him.  He finds it easy to crack onto other men, but I don't think any of them quite play his chords like Ennis Del Mar.
Ennis on the other hand doesn't like people and is scared to death of putting a foot wrong.  Plus he's able to "stand" the situation, in a way looking at the big picture (maybe hoping that when they get older things might be safe enough for them to buy a ranch together?).  There's no point in Ennis looking for a replacement for Jack because no matter who he was with things would still be the same.  I do think that had things continued on, Jack would have probably drifted more towards Randall or someone else.  The danger of HIV was at its peak in the 1980s. Whether it be Randall or another trip to Mexico, there would have been the possibility of the illness striking home.

[frenchcda]

Very ineresting views

<OT>  what on earth doe's " IMO " IHMO " means , I read all the comments and still can't figure out these abreviations, any help would be appreciated, DUH here

[justlikethisalways]

<OT>  what on earth doe's " IMO " IHMO " means

IMO = in my opinion
IHMO = in my humble opinion

Hope that helps. 

[frenchcda]

Your a sweetie, Thank you so much, now this is all new lingo for MOI

[BBBOY]

After the 8th viewing of the movie I have come to this conclusion. IMHO, Ennis had no idea of the intensity of Jack's love for him until he found the shirts. The shirts told us all how much Jack loved Ennis. When Ennis found them it was an awakening for him. He knew the intensity of Jack's love, knew that it matched the impossible, unverbalized, unrealized love he had for Jack. ..... Ennis is not the only one who left his guts in an alley in Signal, WY. Mine are there too.

[guaranain]

This is my first post here...  but these are my feelings on this line/scene

It's obvious from the beginning that Ennis has nothing and is completely alone in the world.  I honestly don't think Ennis was "gay" I feel his attachment formed, because he was alone and this was the first person to show him compassion.  If jack would not have made a move, Ennis would have just lived out his life as planned and might have found comfort in that life.  Ignorance is bliss, and had Ennis never known any difference his life might have played out happily married.  I think that by this scene Ennis had become a broken man, he started alone with nothing, and then lost everything he worked for, over his love for Jack. 

This scene cuts very deep for me, because for Ennis this isn't something he wanted, but it was a truth he had to live with.  Had he never met Jack he could have built a life for himself, but his relationship made him self destructive.  I think of all Ennis had endured over these 20 years and lost any chance he had to "settle" for a "normal" life, just to hold onto to the only moments of happiness he ever had that is now so far in the past. 

The shirts scene had a similar feeling to me, because I think *ONE* of the things it stood for was to Ennis a reminder of a moment in time where the world was still a big place and so many things on the horizon yet to be done.  A time when they were young with full lives ahead of them, before they knew any of the heartache they would have to endure because of that one summer so long ago.

In the end because of his love for Jack he became completely lost and fully alone, he was a broken shell of a man that would never know any true happiness.  I don't think he really blamed Jack, but he knew because of Jack he had now missed every opportunity to live out a life where he would not be alone.

[chameau]

Guaranain, first of all welcome on this board.

First posting?  Please keep posting!  Your first one was amazing!

[jagrafess]

This is my first post here...  but these are my feelings on this line/scene

It's obvious from the beginning that Ennis has nothing and is completely alone in the world.  I honestly don't think Ennis was "gay" I feel his attachment formed, because he was alone and this was the first person to show him compassion.  If jack would not have made a move, Ennis would have just lived out his life as planned and might have found comfort in that life.  Ignorance is bliss, and had Ennis never known any difference his life might have played out happily married.  I think that by this scene Ennis had become a broken man, he started alone with nothing, and then lost everything he worked for, over his love for Jack. 

This scene cuts very deep for me, because for Ennis this isn't something he wanted, but it was a truth he had to live with.  Had he never met Jack he could have built a life for himself, but his relationship made him self destructive.  I think of all Ennis had endured over these 20 years and lost any chance he had to "settle" for a "normal" life, just to hold onto to the only moments of happiness he ever had that is now so far in the past. 

The shirts scene had a similar feeling to me, because I think *ONE* of the things it stood for was to Ennis a reminder of a moment in time where the world was still a big place and so many things on the horizon yet to be done.  A time when they were young with full lives ahead of them, before they knew any of the heartache they would have to endure because of that one summer so long ago.

In the end because of his love for Jack he became completely lost and fully alone, he was a broken shell of a man that would never know any true happiness.  I don't think he really blamed Jack, but he knew because of Jack he had now missed every opportunity to live out a life where he would not be alone.

Oh...I don't think Ennis is a broken shell by the time of that final scene.  Rather, I'd suggest he's more fully in touch with his feelings and where he'd gone wrong - as evident in his utterance of the words "does he love you?" to his daughter and then his acceptance of the wedding invitation.  Ennis learns through Jack's death that love has to be shown and expressed.  Now whilst I don't think he'll ever fall for another man the way he fell for Jack Twist, I think his future will be around his children - he won't be alone.  The gut wrenching beauty of that final moment is that we know Ennis probably would never have felt loved if it wasn't for Jack, and he wouldn't have known the emptiness of a true love lost without Jack's death.  As sad and as miserable as Ennis' life had been, it was infinitily richer for the gift of that cute doe-eyed brown haired rodeo cowboy from Lightning Flat coming into his life.  That's why my heart breaks.

[frenchcda]

Just a reminder I personnally feel is important to remember
is it very unfortunate that people looked at the movie and yet seemed to have forgotten what were Ennis's last words to Jack,

I can't take this anymore...! Jack......
 
it is after all one of the most powerfull gut wrenching moment,
 when you look at the entire history of their lives,
 that was truly words Heath Ledger added,
 so it makes it even more special as it is not to be found anywhere else in the book nor the script,
 imagine how special now this has become,
 nowhere but in the film and improvised at the last moment,
 it doesn't get purer than that :'(

[chameau]

You got me  :'( :'( :'(

[justlikethisalways]

Your a sweetie, Thank you so much, now this is all new lingo for MOI

No problem! We're all here to share and help each other deal with our PBS...! 

is it very unfortunate that people looked at the movie and yet seemed to have forgotten what were Ennis's last words to Jack,

I can't take this anymore...! Jack......

(minor point, I think the exact words are "I can't stand this anymore, Jack...")

Thanks for pointing this out, frenchcda. Heath's added line was a truly brilliant touch (one more reason he deserves that Oscar!!). A "book end" as Her Majesty Froggy likes to call them -- it pairs up with Ennis's "If you can't fix it you gotta stand it" from their first fishing trip. Ennis is having to eat his words now...he (and Jack) can't stand it anymore.   :'( :'( :'( :'(

[frenchcda]

Why WHy WHy do you have to make me cry!!!  You are right I just seen this movie again at teh theater and he says, :    I can STAND this anymore, ! ... Jack!... :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

[n061857]

hi i'm new here and this is my first post...

i was looking for people's take on how jack really died... i did see the oprah interview and they didn't say for sure, but i'd love to hear what others think about that if there is a thread here on this site someone could direct me to

as far as the "it's because of you i'm like this" line, it was one of the deepest moments of the film for me... i think ennis was not only admitting he was a complete mess about being gay in an oppressive culture, but also it was his way of admitting that he loved jack... yes, it came out backwards and on the face one might think it was a mean comment to say to jack, but i took it totally the opposite way, which is that ennis' love for jack was so strong that the rest of his life was such a mess... for if he didn't love jack, he may have been able to live a 'normal' life (without being in love with a man)

I totally agree. 

Jack tells Ennis his dissatisfaction in their relationship.  He then tells him, "I wish I knew how to quit you."   
Ennis is giving Jack permission to go, so he will not hurt him any longer.  "Well, why don't you then?"
Then Ennis is professing the extent of his love.  "It's because of you I'm like this."   I love you so much, Jack, that I have given up everything for you: my wife, my daughters, many jobs, my self respect, my association with all other people.  I don't think he is blaming Jack.  He gave his heart freely.  Jack has just told him he has not given enough.  Ennis is saying that he has given all he is capable of giving.  It has destroyed him,  but he would do it again for the love of Jack.

This is how I read it.  This is the most powerful scene in the whole movie to me.  It completely shatters my heart.