Topic: to be buried on the grieving plain

[tpe]

Bumping down the washboard road Ennis passed the country cemetery fenced with sagging sheep wire, a tiny fenced square on the welling prairie, a few graves bright with plastic flowers, and didn’t want to know Jack was going in there, to be buried on the grieving plain.

-Proulx (Brokeback Mountain)


It seems to me that the above picture is a deleted scene from the movie showing Ennis visiting the cemetery where Jack was destined to be laid.  Is this correct?

I have not made up my mind whether it was a good or bad thing that this scene was not shown in the film.  I find the passage from the short story truly magnificent.  And the last section about the grieving plain always brings me very close to tears.

Was there any good reason (other than trying to shorten the film time) that this scene was deleted out?  Did the movie lose anything by such a deletion?

It would have been such a scene of helpless sorrow.  It grieves me whenever I visualize it...

[Kindred]

I believe you are absolutely correct that this is the scene where Ennis visits the Twist family plot.  Notice both the brown paper bag and the small tombstone to the right of the bag.

I'm not sure if this scene would have conveyed the same meaning as in the short story, where the entire passage is in narrative if I recall.  It certainly is possible given the talents of Ang and Heath, however, maybe they did try and Ang decided that the scene just didn't work.

Another question:  What could Ennis be looking at in the scene?  The Twist house?  Or a car in the distance (as when Jack came to visit after the divorce)?

[tpe]

I believe you are absolutely correct that this is the scene where Ennis visits the Twist family plot.  Notice both the brown paper bag and the small tombstone to the right of the bag.

I'm not sure if this scene would have conveyed the same meaning as in the short story, where the entire passage is in narrative if I recall.  It certainly is possible given the talents of Ang and Heath, however, maybe they did try and Ang decided that the scene just didn't work.

Another question:  What could Ennis be looking at in the scene?  The Twist house?  Or a car in the distance (as when Jack came to visit after the divorce)?

Yes, kindred, I am also quite puzzled as to what he was looking at.  There is another pic that I shall post later that seems to show Ennis walking to the cemetery.  I wonder how far this was from the Twist house, but my impression was that after he left the house (as seen in the movie -- you see him look up the window to Jack's room) he appears to have just walked to the place in question.

I have  a theory.  I think when he looked out the window, Ennis probably saw the cemetery just some distance away.  I cannot prove it, but his looking up the window after he left the house suggests to me that he was trying to figure out the direction of the cemetery that he saw from the room...

It intrigues me.  I am sure the entire scene was wordless.  It must be pretty powerful, as a realization of pure narrative.

I shall post the related pic later (I am off to a meeting!)

[stacp]

I believe you are absolutely correct that this is the scene where Ennis visits the Twist family plot.  Notice both the brown paper bag and the small tombstone to the right of the bag.

I'm not sure if this scene would have conveyed the same meaning as in the short story, where the entire passage is in narrative if I recall.  It certainly is possible given the talents of Ang and Heath, however, maybe they did try and Ang decided that the scene just didn't work.

Another question:  What could Ennis be looking at in the scene?  The Twist house?  Or a car in the distance (as when Jack came to visit after the divorce)?

I think you are right about this.  Ennis is probably reflecting here that this is where Jack will be buried instead of having his ashes scattered on BBM like he wanted.  Sad indeed that Jack's last wishes about where his own remains would be laid to rest couldn't be carried out.  Maybe Ennis is looking at a bird, such as  a crow.  Didn't Ennis hear a crow when he opened the window in Jack's bedroom?  I know a crow is symbolic of something (death maybe?), so maybe it flies past again?  Just a thought.

[welshwitch]

I reckon this is the family plot John Twist talked about and it's on his land, another symbol of his possessiveness and control if he keeps even Jack's ashes there. It's enclosed, too, so that Jack is as restricted as he was in life.  ( "Cabin'd, cribb'd, bound in" ?") You could read the pointed fence-posts as symbolic of what Ennis did to him year after year by imposing the conditions that meant they met so rarely. There's also the fact that in death, as life, Jack won't be with anyone who loved him, unless perhaps one day his mother is buried there. Clearly John Twist if he knew about Ennis was going to make sure he had no chance of being joined with Jack in death.

The location of the burial ground is almost " way the hell out in the middle of nowhere" like their meetings, not surrounded by the artifacts of civilisation, while "the grieving plain" is such an evocative phrase and is a wonderful example of the pathetic fallacy, the idea of the whole world of nature grieving for Jack

[tpe]

I think you are right about this.  Ennis is probably reflecting here that this is where Jack will be buried instead of having his ashes scattered on BBM like he wanted.  Sad indeed that Jack's last wishes about where his own remains would be laid to rest couldn't be carried out.  Maybe Ennis is looking at a bird, such as  a crow.  Didn't Ennis hear a crow when he opened the window in Jack's bedroom?  I know a crow is symbolic of something (death maybe?), so maybe it flies past again?  Just a thought.

Very interesting insight stacp.  I thought that this could be Ennis looking at the "grieving plain", but your suggestion here sends chills down my spine.  Why?  Not really because of a CROW, but because of the old associations with DEATH and the RAVEN:


THERE were three rauens sat on a tree, 
  Downe a downe, hay down, hay downe 
There were three rauens sat on a tree, 
  With a downe 
There were three rauens sat on a tree,         
They were as blacke as they might be. 
  With a downe derrie, derrie, derrie, downe, downe. 
 
The one of them said to his mate, 
“Where shall we our breakefast take?” 
 
“Downe in yonder greene field,         
There lies a knight slain vnder his shield. 
 
“His hounds they lie downe at his feete, 
So well they can their master keepe. 
 
“His haukes they flie so eagerly, 
There’s no fowle dare him come nie.”
 
Downe there comes a fallow doe, 
As great with yong as she might goe. 
 
She lift vp his bloudy hed, 
And kist his wounds that were so red. 
 
She got him vp vpon her backe,         
And carried him to earthen lake.
 
She buried him before the prime, 
She was dead herselfe ere euen-song time. 
 
God send euery gentleman, 
Such haukes, such hounds, and such a leman


(Three Ravens -- A Traditional English Ballad)



 

[tpe]

I reckon this is the family plot John Twist talked about and it's on his land, another symbol of his possessiveness and control if he keeps even Jack's ashes there. It's enclosed, too, so that Jack is as restricted as he was in life.  ( "Cabin'd, cribb'd, bound in" ?") You could read the pointed fence-posts as symbolic of what Ennis did to him year after year by imposing the conditions that meant they met so rarely. There's also the fact that in death, as life, Jack won't be with anyone who loved him, unless perhaps one day his mother is buried there. Clearly John Twist if he knew about Ennis was going to make sure he had no chance of being joined with Jack in death.

The location of the burial ground is almost " way the hell out in the middle of nowhere" like their meetings, not surrounded by the artifacts of civilisation, while "the grieving plain" is such an evocative phrase and is a wonderful example of the pathetic fallacy, the idea of the whole world of nature grieving for Jack

Indeed the "grieving plain" is a pathetic fallacy: an amplification of Ennis's grief magnified to nature itself.   Was this not the same device used in so much classical poetry: "grieve, ye rocks, ye nymphs, for Adonis is dead..."

[welshwitch]

"Earth felt the wound, and Nature from her seat
 Sighing through all her works gave signs of woe
 That all was lost."

 Milton - sorry!

[tpe]

"Earth felt the wound, and Nature from her seat
 Sighing through all her works gave signs of woe
 That all was lost."

 Milton - sorry!

Beautiful nonetheless. 

I realized that the other pic I thought related to the visit to the cemetery might be one actually showing Ennis in 63 on his way to Aguirre's trailer.  It is hard to distinguish these sometimes, because they show Ennis carrying a similar type of package (again, an intended parallelism): Ennis's clothes in a bag in 63, and the 2 shirts in a paper bag in the later scene.

[shieldmaid]

This scene, and the poems you've included, remind me of the traditional elegy form.  The 15th and 16th century pastoral elegy depended upon the premise that the landscape itself reflected the conditions of grief--that the land itself (much like the myth of the Fisher King) couldn't be fertile and healthy as long as one was in mourning.  Interestingly, too, the mourner in pastoral elegies often appears in the character of a shepherd . . . .  I'm just looking at the way the grass is yellowish-brown, clearly dry and dying, reflecting Ennis's broken heart at this moment.

Thanks so much for posting this pic, tpe; I had no idea it existed.

[tpe]

This scene, and the poems you've included, remind me of the traditional elegy form.  The 15th and 16th century pastoral elegy depended upon the premise that the landscape itself reflected the conditions of grief--that the land itself (much like the myth of the Fisher King) couldn't be fertile and healthy as long as one was in mourning.  Interestingly, too, the mourner in pastoral elegies often appears in the character of a shepherd . . . .  I'm just looking at the way the grass is yellowish-brown, clearly dry and dying, reflecting Ennis's broken heart at this moment.

Thanks so much for posting this pic, tpe; I had no idea it existed.

This is why I think something may have been lost in the deletion of this scene.  We catch a glimpse of the desolation when Ennis leaves the Twist house.  The visit to the cemetery, set against the bleak backdrop of the dying autumnal plains, would have amplified Ennis's internal grief in a way that could probably compensatefor not showing a scene that  shows Ennis actually crying...

[stacp]

Thanks Welshwitch and TPE for those beautiful words.   

[edgar]

Wow.

Amazing thread. Thanks for starting it, tpe. I'm just going to make a few quick points/questions/observations.

1. Where did you get this picture, tpe? Did you have to bid on this on ebay?

2. Crows as well as ravens are used as symbols of death in literature/iconography.

3. "grieving plain"  :\'( :\'( :\'(

4. Re: why would this scene be deleted? Inasmuch as we have recently discussed anoter sad scene near the end of the movie (Ennis crying, leaning against Jack's wall), it seems very clear to me that Ang Lee did not want the movie to become too sentimental, especially at the end. Ready for a cliche? Less is more. When we have to fill in the "empty space" between what we see on screen and what we understand to be the reality of the emotion, it is more meaningful to us.

5. HOWEVER, that being said, I really feel that there must and will be a "director's cut" or "extended version" dvd--maybe even a re-release in theaters?--with many or all of these deleted scenes. Surely it was no accident that the dvd had very few extras--no deleted scenes, no commentary. Whether for artistic or financial reasons, the producers are saving it to give it to us later. For goodness' sake, scenes like these deserve to be seen. And one good reason for leaking so many hints about extra scenes (hippies, extra crying, cemetary, look I brought beans) would be to whet our appetites for a longer version.

 

[greenfrog]

"Earth felt the wound, and Nature from her seat
 Sighing through all her works gave signs of woe
 That all was lost."

 Milton - sorry!

 :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'(

[tpe]

Wow.

Amazing thread. Thanks for starting it, tpe. I'm just going to make a few quick points/questions/observations.

1. Where did you get this picture, tpe? Did you have to bid on this on ebay?

2. Crows as well as ravens are used as symbols of death in literature/iconography.

3. "grieving plain"  :\'( :\'( :\'(

4. Re: why would this scene be deleted? Inasmuch as we have recently discussed anoter sad scene near the end of the movie (Ennis crying, leaning against Jack's wall), it seems very clear to me that Ang Lee did not want the movie to become too sentimental, especially at the end. Ready for a cliche? Less is more. When we have to fill in the "empty space" between what we see on screen and what we understand to be the reality of the emotion, it is more meaningful to us.

5. HOWEVER, that being said, I really feel that there must and will be a "director's cut" or "extended version" dvd--maybe even a re-release in theaters?--with many or all of these deleted scenes. Surely it was no accident that the dvd had very few extras--no deleted scenes, no commentary. Whether for artistic or financial reasons, the producers are saving it to give it to us later. For goodness' sake, scenes like these deserve to be seen. And one good reason for leaking so many hints about extra scenes (hippies, extra crying, cemetary, look I brought beans) would be to whet our appetites for a longer version.

 

Thanks edgar for the comments.  No, the pic is from a wonderful site whose pictures I reference often.  I've PMed you the link.