Topic: Shall we dance?

[jerasjr]

We saw both Jack and Ennis dance during the film, and I think the way they dance shows us another clue to their characters...
Jack  - free, easy in his movements  and Ennis - a minimum of  basic movement

[chameau]

You're right and knowing Heath Ledger is a very good dancer, his interpretation of Ennis is even more fascinating:   He really looks like the guy who don't know about dancing, don't want to know about it and just don't wanna dance but he couldn't resist Cassie about this last one.

[welshwitch]

Jack does it all right too, asking LaShawn to dance, talking to his partner ( or at least pretending to listen), at ease being part of a social event that's relatively formal, part of the group - Ennis is exactly the opposite, more or less dragooned by his partner,unwilling, unprepared, awkward.

[tpe]

I think the way each of them dances with various people reflect their contrasting natures.

Ennis didn't really know how to dance before meeting Cassie.  The first dance was simply a suggestion of a dance -- doing the motions while Cassie "led" him on.  The second instance showed him a bit less awkward -- but still just going through the motions.  When he excused himself to Alma Jr. in the second dance, you could tell that he did not seem to relish Cassie's "invitation".  At best, he was awkward, and knew it.  He did not enjoy it.

We see Jack dance more often -- with more fluidity and ease.   And yet, what struck me is the way he was able to hide his own feelings behind the fluidity and grace.

For me, the most beautifully done and revealing dance scene is Jack's first dance with Lureen.  At the start, we see slight flirtation in the way Jack taps Lureens fingers to the beat of the music, the way he makes eye contact, and the casual conversation that they seemed to share while dancing, and his seeming mastery of the situation (Lureen seemed smitten, and he played it to the hilt!)  All bespeaks ease and enjoyment, until Jack's face is hidden from Lureen's and we see Jack's soul:

[chameau]

In the second dance with Cassie I found bizarre Ennis kept smoking his cigarette tough.

[tpe]

In the second dance with Cassie I found bizarre Ennis kept smoking his cigarette tough.

Yes, it was so strange.  He certainly didn't seem to put his heart into it.  It looked more like going through the motions, in order to please Cassie.  The part you mentioned about the cigarette is a very subtle indication that his heart was not there...

Did Cassie know but just kept on insisting?  In the "introduction" before the first dance, it was clear that she wouldn't take NO for an answer!  So intent was she to make things work that it seemed that she missed the fact that Ennis was dancing just to please her.  Else, it was self-delusion.

[jackster]

Did Cassie know but just kept on insisting? . . . So intent was she to make things work that it seemed that she missed the fact that Ennis was dancing just to please her. Else, it was self-delusion.

How true. Poor Cassie, she really, really, wanted to "convert" Ennis. The dance sequences with her show how eagerly she wanted this and how she felt she could achieve this by being a seductress. Didn''t work on this one though, Jr. knew it and told her so, but she was blind to it. (Can't blame her fer trying.)

. . . and knowing Heath Ledger is a very good dancer . . .

Oh Cham, you lucky boy ! ! ! 

[welshwitch]

I think the cigarette is a sign of how very disengaged with the whole thing Ennis is.  Cassie misreads him too - it's so obvious that he's awkward and doesn't want to stand up and have people looking at him - it's like all the notes she sends later. She tries too hard and in the wrong way. Jack instinctively knows enough about Ennis not to push him or crowd him.

[tpe]

How true. Poor Cassie, she really, really, wanted to "convert" Ennis. The dance sequences with her show how eagerly she wanted this and how she felt she could achieve this by being a seductress. Didn''t work on this one though, Jr. knew it and told her so, but she was blind to it. (Can't blame her fer trying.)

It did seem that the dance sequences cast her in the role of seductress -- very similar to the events surrounding Jack's first dance with Lureen.  Had it been Jack or the youngser Ennis, Cassie might have succeeded.  But there is certainly something in Ennis's comment "Once burned..."  It spoke of an unwillingness to make another serious try at marriage. 

[tpe]

I think the cigarette is a sign of how very disengaged with the whole thing Ennis is.  Cassie misreads him too - it's so obvious that he's awkward and doesn't want to stand up and have people looking at him - it's like all the notes she sends later. She tries too hard and in the wrong way. Jack instinctively knows enough about Ennis not to push him or crowd him.

Precisely: the cigarette was very telling.  There was also a weariness in his voice when he excused himself to Alma Jr. 

And yes, Ennis was never comfortable on the dance floor, where he and Cassie called attention to themselves.  It showed how little Cassie really understood Ennis.  Perhaps she was in love with an image of Ennis that sh herself had constructed for herself.

[jackster]

It did seem that the dance sequences cast her in the role of seductress -- very similar to the events surrounding Jack's first dance with Lureen. 

Great observation tpe. I've never connected the two dance floor pick-ups, Lureen going for Jack and later Cassie going for Ennis. Maybe this has been cited before, if so I've missed it. Both the guys at bars, looking for something, but they just don't know what. The women don't get them "motivated" enough to make the first move, maybe they're both just trying to figure themselves out, hoping that something will provoke them into action. Something other than what they really want (a man). I believe this scene has been played out innumerable times by many gay men (especially in the 60s and 70s), when they are trying to understand and come to grips with themselves and who they are.

[jerasjr]

Great observation tpe. I've never connected the two dance floor pick-ups, Lureen going for Jack and later Cassie going for Ennis. Maybe this has been cited before, if so I've missed it. Both the guys at bars, looking for something, but they just don't know what. The women don't get them "motivated" enough to make the first move, maybe they're both just trying to figure themselves out, hoping that something will provoke them into action. Something other than what they really want (a man). I believe this scene has been played out innumerable times by many gay men (especially in the 60s and 70s), when they are trying to understand and come to grips with themselves and who they are.

jackster, I really liked this observation, it comes to the heart of it for gay men in that time - the phenomenon of gay bars was not prevalent and so the chance to come to terms or figure themselves out was not an easy one.

[tpe]

Great observation tpe. I've never connected the two dance floor pick-ups, Lureen going for Jack and later Cassie going for Ennis. Maybe this has been cited before, if so I've missed it. Both the guys at bars, looking for something, but they just don't know what. The women don't get them "motivated" enough to make the first move, maybe they're both just trying to figure themselves out, hoping that something will provoke them into action. Something other than what they really want (a man). I believe this scene has been played out innumerable times by many gay men (especially in the 60s and 70s), when they are trying to understand and come to grips with themselves and who they are.

I agree.  I do think that the dance sequences show both Ennis and Jack trying to come to grips with themselves: neither rejecting the advances of the women but also neither committing themselves emotionally.  These scenes have a flavor of "wait and see".  Both of them allowed themselves to be led by more agressive women, who knew what they wanted from the very beginning.  Perhaps it was each woman's certainty that both Ennis and Jack wanted.

 

[goblondie]

I agree.  I do think that the dance sequences show both Ennis and Jack trying to come to grips with themselves: neither rejecting the advances of the women but also neither committing themselves emotionally.  These scenes have a flavor of "wait and see".  Both of them allowed themselves to be led by more agressive women, who knew what they wanted from the very beginning.  Perhaps it was each woman's certainty that both Ennis and Jack wanted.

 

good observation,of course it was both the women (Lureen and Cassie)who wanted Jack and Ennis to dance,they never took initiative themselves to dance with the women.And like you said it was both women who knew what they wanted from beginning.Guess either Jack or Ennis would have done that.

[tpe]

good observation,of course it was both the women (Lureen and Cassie)who wanted Jack and Ennis to dance,they never took initiative themselves to dance with the women.And like you said it was both women who knew what they wanted from beginning.Guess either Jack or Ennis would have done that.

The old adage holds true for LUreen and Cassie: be careful with what you wish for!

The body language in both dance sequences tell us so much about the relationships.  And it tells us a lot about the women.

Cassie's insistence speaks of slight vulnerability -- not taking no for an anser in the face of it (as with the first dance with Ennis).  LUreen shows greater confidence and dominance -- after all, she was on top after the dance (literally), no?

[jackster]

-- after all, she was on top after the dance (literally), no?

To say the least, she was all over him like a June bug, Jack could just lay back and take it all in, no wonder he married her, probably wasn't used to that kind of attention. I guess maybe Ennis did the masculine version of this FNIT, but then Ennis wasn't "the marrying kind"  .

[tpe]

To say the least, she was all over him like a June bug, Jack could just lay back and take it all in, no wonder he married her, probably wasn't used to that kind of attention. I guess maybe Ennis did the masculine version of this FNIT, but then Ennis wasn't "the marrying kind"  .

The scene inside the car was a follow-up of the dance scene -- in more ways than one!  It was Lureen who led Jack -- and he clearly liked the attention in either case.  Who wouldn't be flattered?

One other telling detail: I do think we see Jack dance with Lureen only once -- in this scene.   From Lureen's comment later in the film, once would think that they never danced with each other after they got married.

[welshwitch]

the onl;y time we see a man inviting a woman to dance is when Jack invites LaShawn. And there's some sense that he's doing that to distract attention from Randall's interest in him and vice versa. Once they're dancing, though, he hardly gets a word in edgeways; when he danced with Lureen after the rodeo he looked involved then switched off as if thinking of Jack; in the scene with Lashawn he never seems to be doing more than going through the mtions and making polite noises.

I should perhaps add that Shakespeare uses dancing as a mtaphor for harmony and unity between couplkes - those who are going to marry frequently dance together at the end of  play. Maybe there's a sign in the dances of BBM that at no time is either Jack or Ennis dancing with the person he loves, and that's why neither is ever really involved.

[jackster]

. . . there's a sign in the dances of BBM that at no time is either Jack or Ennis dancing with the person he loves, and that's why neither is ever really involved.

Right on the money IMHO. I feel we do get to see Jack and Ennis dance however, but it's called the Dozy Embrace.
If that ain't a nice slow dance, don't know what is.

 

[tpe]

the onl;y time we see a man inviting a woman to dance is when Jack invites LaShawn. And there's some sense that he's doing that to distract attention from Randall's interest in him and vice versa. Once they're dancing, though, he hardly gets a word in edgeways; when he danced with Lureen after the rodeo he looked involved then switched off as if thinking of Jack; in the scene with Lashawn he never seems to be doing more than going through the mtions and making polite noises.

I should perhaps add that Shakespeare uses dancing as a mtaphor for harmony and unity between couplkes - those who are going to marry frequently dance together at the end of  play. Maybe there's a sign in the dances of BBM that at no time is either Jack or Ennis dancing with the person he loves, and that's why neither is ever really involved.

Good point.  And we should note that when Jack invites LaShawn to a dance, he does it to get back at Lureen...

Did Jack ever ask Lureen to dance?  It would seem that Ennis would also be the type who never bothered to ask Cassie to dance out of his own initiative...