Topic: Daddy's Boys II Men

[aintfoolin]

I agree with you tpe.  There had to be something more going on between old man Twist and Jack that runs deeper than appearances, and is very complicated.   The old man didn't run Jack off, and Jack always returned.       

I think as Jack got older, he and the old man may have come to some kind of uneasy truce as many people do. . If not for his own sake, but for his mother whom I feel Jack respected and adored.  Maturity and  sense of looking at things from an adult  perspective can bring this understanding now between two grown men. They still disagreed on alot of things still, but I feel there was  an unspoken cautious air to their relationship. They knew each other very well. Knew that they were not each other in thought or action though they were father and son. I think he got his "no more beans!" stubborness from his Daddy though. He could be stubborn that Jack , but I loved em.

Jack, not forgetting or even forgiving his father for the negligence and abuse , grew up. learned to live with whatever issues he had with it and moved on to try and live  his  own life although not really realizing that what he lacked as a father figure came into play in many ways with his relationship with Ennis.  Ennis loved and accepted Jack for who and what he was though both OMT and Ennis put conditions on the love Jack had for them...in different ways.  I think deep inside Jack still sought respect from OMT. Went to help out his father with the ranch when he could and this is how he maintained contact with him. It was probably at these times when Jack spoke of bringing Ennis up to help out.  Without, acceptance, but as just two human beings interacting with each other ,he sought to at least gain respect for who he was and who he chose to love. He did right by them both.

What ever their faults and disasgreements between them ,(and they were huge personal issues,) they were still father and son. As Tpe  said, no father who has a child cannot see their death and not be affected by it in a regrettful way. It's natually human to do so. OMT was no saint, not by a long shot... but he was human.

[tpe]

I agree with you tpe.  There had to be something more going on between old man Twist and Jack that runs deeper than appearances, and is very complicated.   The old man didn't run Jack off, and Jack always returned.       

Somehow, I did feel that as much as Jack harbored a desire to please the father, John Twist somehow yearned to have a son of his own making -- does this make sense?  I appreciate the difficulty that Jack had to surmount -- trying to match an ideal, unrealistic though it may be.

Perhpas the tragedy of John Twist was that he never accepted the son for who he was.

[tpe]

I think as Jack got older, he and the old man may have come to some kind of uneasy truce as many people do. . If not for his own sake, but for his mother whom I feel Jack respected and adored.  Maturity and  sense of looking at things from an adult  perspective can bring this understanding now between two grown men. They still disagreed on alot of things still, but I feel there was  an unspoken cautious air to their relationship. They knew each other very well. Knew that they were not each other in thought or action though they were father and son. I think he got his "no more beans!" stubborness from his Daddy though. He could be stubborn that Jack , but I loved em.

A separate peace, perhaps?

Jack, not forgetting or even forgiving his father for the negligence and abuse , grew up. learned to live with whatever issues he had with it and moved on to try and live  his  own life although not really realizing that what he lacked as a father figure came into play in many ways with his relationship with Ennis.  Ennis loved and accepted Jack for who and what he was though both OMT and Ennis put conditions on the love Jack had for them...in different ways.  I think deep inside Jack still sought respect from OMT. Went to help out his father with the ranch when he could and this is how he maintained contact with him. It was probably at these times when Jack spoke of bringing Ennis up to help out.  Without, acceptance, but as just two human beings interacting with each other ,he sought to at least gain respect for who he was and who he chose to love. He did right by them both.

What ever their faults and disasgreements between them ,(and they were huge personal issues,) they were still father and son. As Tpe  said, no father who has a child cannot see their death and not be affected by it in a regrettful way. It's natually human to do so. OMT was no saint, not by a long shot... but he was human.

I do think that part of of Jack's dream was somehow to get his father to accept him for who he was.  And since Ennis was inseperable from Jack's identity, Jack perhaps thought it natural to bring Ennis back to LF.  Perhpas Jack's hope was that with Ennis, her would be "complete" -- hence, there was a chance that John Twist would finally accept him.

Well said, aintfoolin.