Topic: Would you change the sex scenes and, if so, how...?

[vedrana]

  You wicked girl!  *SPANK!*   

Well, just for the visual pleasure of it all... 

Who said it's just for the visual pleasure? 

 

[vedrana]

Jack wearing ONLY his black cowboy hat ¡...Do you want me to faint,at this hour of the afternoon?... And yes,Jack had surely more experience and was rather less inhibited than Ennis.And surely much more imaginative in creating news ways of pleasure,why not?...Oh,better I shut up...

Don't underestimate Ennis... I think that one day when he got all the lessons from Jack, he was just as good.... and naughty! 

Black hat?? Nothing more on Jack??.... yes please! 

[tpe]

Who said it's just for the visual pleasure? 

 

Well, yes, come to think of it. 

In many of the sex scenes, it is more about visual suggestion -- giving us enough sensual images that makes it easier for the over-heated imagination to extrapolate.

[tpe]

Jack wearing ONLY his black cowboy hat ¡...Do you want me to faint,at this hour of the afternoon?... And yes,Jack had surely more experience and was rather less inhibited than Ennis.And surely much more imaginative in creating news ways of pleasure,why not?...Oh,better I shut up...

   It really is a most sensual image -- IMO.  It prevents us asking too many needless questions like: why the heck is he wearing only THAT? 

[myprivatejack]

I guess the number and "intensity" of sex scenes is just the correct so that Annie's intention when writing like the one of Ang when shaping it into images was not weakened as much. It is not a film on sensations, rather on feelings and fight, the fight to live these feelings fully. More sexual scenes would have been a deceptive bait that would attract people more interested in feeling hot before some bodies than moved before a love.Another fairly different thing is that I believe that they must have been more scenes of pure and simple love when the personages are ageing.

[atalley]

I guess the number and "intensity" of sex scenes is just the correct so that Annie's intention when writing like the one of Ang when shaping it into images was not weakened as much. It is not a film on sensations, rather on feelings and fight, the fight to live these feelings fully. More sexual scenes would have been a deceptive bait that would attract people more interested in feeling hot before some bodies than moved before a love.Another fairly different thing is that I believe that they must have been more scenes of pure and simple love when the personages are ageing.

Very well said!

[tpe]

I guess the number and "intensity" of sex scenes is just the correct so that Annie's intention when writing like the one of Ang when shaping it into images was not weakened as much. It is not a film on sensations, rather on feelings and fight, the fight to live these feelings fully. More sexual scenes would have been a deceptive bait that would attract people more interested in feeling hot before some bodies than moved before a love.Another fairly different thing is that I believe that they must have been more scenes of pure and simple love when the personages are ageing.

Very good point.  I think every sex scene in the movie is closely tied or finds its origination in some comment or passage in the short story.  Nothing was superfluous.  Nothing that was not suggested in the short story found its way into the film.

Case in point: the film didn't show any sex scenes with Randall and Jack.  This is in keeping with the ambiguity of the role of the Texas neighbor in the short story.

[Matt Nasty]

i pretty much think that the sex scenes were extreamly well done, i think they were used to convey different emotions at different stages for jack and ennis rather then make people aroused (not that they dont do that too  )

[myprivatejack]

i pretty much think that the sex scenes were extreamly well done, i think they were used to convey different emotions at different stages for jack and ennis rather then make people aroused (not that they dont do that too  )

I agree completely,Matt ¡ The intention of both the writer and the film maker was to denounce a situation that was not only the one of rural Wyoming in 60's or 70's,but that is repeated still nowdays-in spite of the great advances we have done these last years-.And it's better to denounce an unfair situation by dealing with feelings,even if among them there's also passion,than simply show something that will arouse our bodies,not our minds.Moreover,there're a lot of other movies made for arousing people,but not necessarily for making them think things over...

[rimasworld]

I agree completely,Matt ¡ The intention of both the writer and the film maker was to denounce a situation that was not only the one of rural Wyoming in 60's or 70's,but that is repeated still nowdays-in spite of the great advances we have done these last years-.And it's better to denounce an unfair situation by dealing with feelings,even if among them there's also passion,than simply show something that will arouse our bodies,not our minds.Moreover,there're a lot of other movies made for arousing people,but not necessarily for making them think things over...

Yes, their relationship was everything.. through the years they loved, they laughed, they cried, they had fun, they argued, they understood where others did not.. and even when they couldn't grasp each other totally, they hung on and that love never died.

[tpe]

i pretty much think that the sex scenes were extreamly well done, i think they were used to convey different emotions at different stages for jack and ennis rather then make people aroused (not that they dont do that too  )

I think that they were done most deliberately -- with an eye on conveying the various stages of the relationship, as you say here.  Very carefully thought out, and in some parts, very restrained.

[mimi1996]

Yeah,I suppose sex between Ennis and Alma was developing in a very traditional and even boring way,in a great part because I think Alma-even when she knew her husband´s affair-took it as a duty.This makes sense to why she didn´t say anything after she discovered Ennis and Jack kissing, and for a long time after,and why she kept on having sex with him quietly.She maybe thought somehow she could "recover" her husband by making what he liked;but I really believe that  in her innest part of herself,she knew she couldn´t be the winner,neither in bed nor in others aspects of Ennis´life.

Oh my god, wow. Your personal message thing at the bottom of your posts is so beautiful...I actually started to cry when I read it. Did you write it yourself? Because I'm sure it's not in the short story or the movie, but my god it should've been! The bit about kissing him on the temple...its so...perfect. Thankyou so much

[myprivatejack]

  mimi ¡Coming back to this almost old thread,I remember that someone said once that he or she missed some more scenes that we needn't to call "sexual" necessarily;but scenes of the time spent together living their once in a while sweet life.How they showed their love to each other in moments such the jumping on the river,or in Doe's cabin,or in any of their many reunion along the years.In this sense,I have always said that the movie "cuts" too suddenly and definitively any love or lust demonstrations between them;as they are shown before us as two mere friends during half an hour in the beginning to become lovers all of a sudden,after their reunion no other scene in this sense is shown.It's to say,as if they had been friends,then lovers and after that,one more time friends...do you understand what I mean?.Of course,this links with the lack of affection scenes in the last years of their relationship.What's your opinion about?.

[Forever]

OMG, ainfooling, I have been waitin' for the collectors edition DVD, and you mean they don't have those "unseen takes"!  I think we should start a petition to ask for ALL the takes. I would love to watch every take, bloopers and all. THAT would be an event for the Grand Convention! Watching the bloopers with the cast and crew. I can dream of heaven...

Thanks for the tips about the sound. I will report back on what I hear. 

As for the dirt on Ennis' knees...don't tops get their knees dirty? The bottom would have dirt on their knees AND hands, or back...without getting more graphic and offensive... Don't texans drink coffee?

I would love too, start a petition to ask for all the takes! But Ang Lee said :  No, folks, it's ain't gonna be that way! Maybe we can try again! We are such a great community!

[kitty]

We definitely need more affection in the later years. All we really get in that last fishing scene is the tent scene with Ennis's arm around Jack. I'd like to see them, as the short story suggests, "rolling into the dirt"

And we know that the actors had no problems with kissing each other, so even just one kiss in the later years wouldn't have been a problem, right?    

[jack123]

During the first sex scene in the tent I would have wanted to see more but it would be a porn and not a cinema beauty like this.You wanted it rough in the first encounter it makes it more hot and it was.Though in the motel scene I would have loved to see them kissing and taking some of there clothes off and then see them together in bed talking and holding each other.We all do know what happened at the cabin but I would have loved to see a bit of them being together there also.

You know the saying curiousity killed the cat.Well,not this cat.

[BBMsheep]

We definitely need more affection in the later years. All we really get in that last fishing scene is the tent scene with Ennis's arm around Jack. I'd like to see them, as the short story suggests, "rolling into the dirt"

And we know that the actors had no problems with kissing each other, so even just one kiss in the later years wouldn't have been a problem, right?    

I agree with you, Kitty. In the later years, the only affection moment we get is that tent scene where they are asleep. In the SS, there is that scene when they talk about their children, that Ennis wanted a boy etc... and Ennis put his arm around Jack, and then Jack put his cold hand between Ennis's legs... and then as you said, they roll in the dirt. I love that passage in the book.
I would have liked more tenderness scenes, one kiss or two at the motel as you said Alleycat, and a "little darlin'" in the reunion scene. And more light on the FNIT, please 

[kitty]

I'd like to see more than a kiss at the motel...

[myprivatejack]

During the first sex scene in the tent I would have wanted to see more but it would be a porn and not a cinema beauty like this.You wanted it rough in the first encounter it makes it more hot and it was.Though in the motel scene I would have loved to see them kissing and taking some of there clothes off and then see them together in bed talking and holding each other.We all do know what happened at the cabin but I would have loved to see a bit of them being together there also.

You know the saying curiousity killed the cat.Well,not this cat.

I'd like to see more than a kiss at the motel...

Yes,I agree with you,Alleycat; as a matter of fact,I think I have told something similar in one of my former posts in this thread...This movie is not a porn made to arouse,but a beautiful piece of art made to think about intolerance and homophobia.There're a lot of movies whose main reason is excite people,but this doesn't mean that they make us use our brains and souls instead of other parts of our bodies.
However,I agree with you (specially with you,Kat Nasty ¡   ) in that some more love ans passion proofs between them along the movie and not only in the beginning and the reunion times.There're none in the second part of the movie and this makes them look like a boring and bored wed couple,lol ¡ Love and passion can vary along the years,being calmer,but this doesn't mean it doesn't exists...And seeing a forty-years old Ennis and Jack making something else than arguing has been lovely too ¡ Or not?  

[rimasworld]

Yes,I agree with you,Alleycat; as a matter of fact,I think I have told something similar in one of my former posts in this thread...This movie is not a porn made to arouse,but a beautiful piece of art made to think about intolerance and homophobia.There're a lot of movies whose main reason is excite people,but this doesn't mean that they make us use our brains and souls instead of other parts of our bodies.
However,I agree with you (specially with you,Kat Nasty ¡   ) in that some more love ans passion proofs between them along the movie and not only in the beginning and the reunion times.There're none in the second part of the movie and this makes them look like a boring and bored wed couple,lol ¡ Love and passion can vary along the years,being calmer,but this doesn't mean it doesn't exists...And seeing a forty-years old Ennis and Jack making something else than arguing has been lovely too ¡ Or not?  

Hi MPJ... Over the years and seeing this film countless times, I first wanted to see more displays of affection later from E & J. But my take now is maybe Ang was wanting to show the effects of the homophobia and Ennis's fears as time went on and they were apart from each other and all that time for Ennis to worry about it. Ennis seemed to become more withdrawn into himself and his fears as time went by. Jack in turn became more resigned to his role but not ever accepting it totally as the lover who only got to see his love a few short times a year. I think Ang showed a little different perspective than Annie and both were wonderfully done. I would have had no problem with a little more conversation in the motel like in the ss. I would have enjoyed that I think more than physical interaction in that scene. But then again I think Ang may have been trying to put on the screen a more closed off Ennis and Heath did a masterful job at that character.  BBM is truely a masterpiece.

[myprivatejack]

Hi,Rw ¡ Yes,you're probably right...As a matter of fact,movie's Ennis is rather closer in himself than s.s.Ennis ; it seems as homophobia's effects were stronger in the first one,with all what this implies.As time passes by,he becomes more and more unaware of his lover's needs or,at least,more afraid of fulfilling them.Moreover,his life has changed since the divorce and,as a consequence,they didn't see each other as frequently as before...Surely,Ang shows this as a reason to run away from each other somehow,instead of be the reason to run to each other; too many problems,too many doubts,too many fears,and love's proofs remains forgotten to remark the causes of all this.It's to say:not an Ennis in love,longing for his lover,but an each time more and more paranoic Ennis who longs for him too,but is afraid of showing it even before himself...Anyhow,yes,BBM is a masterpiece with many psychological shades that,even,can change according to the viewer.

[Forever]

I'd like to see more than a kiss at the motel...

Kitty, we don't SEE any kiss at the motel! We can only imagine one ( well more than one kiss ) I would not change the sex scene, But I will definitely add one the MOTEL! ( damn, we can only imagine this one!)