Topic: 19 or 20?

[chowhound]

Up until now, I've assumed that Ennis and Jack were both nineteen when they first meet on Brokeback in the summer of '63. Indeed, the timeline I created for Brokeback partly depends on this assumption. The assumption was based on the short story:

""It would be Jack Twist's second summer on the mountain, Ennis's first. Neither of them was twenty."

Earlier today I was revisiting an interview that Ang Lee had with Charlie Rose a few days before the movie's initial release. At one point, Charlie Rose asks Ang Lee to outline the story for him and in so doing Ang says that it's a story about "two ranch hands - one age of 20, one 19" - who first meet on Brokeback Mountain. Ang Lee's specificity puzzled me until I went back, not to the short story but to the screen play. There, in introducing Ennis, it's stated that he is "about twenty". Jack, on the other hand is quite definitely described as "twenty". So it looks as though Ang and presumably his actors had decided to make Jack slightly older than Ennis with Jack at twenty and Ennis nineteen.

Does it matter if Jack is that bit older than Ennis? As Ang Lee is so specific about the difference in their ages when he's introducing them, it seems that it mattered to him. Maybe he perceived Jack as slightly more "experienced" than Ennis not only in having been on Brokeback the year before but in other matters as well. Any thoughts on this?

Clearly, when I have the time, I should revisit that timeline. Some alterations will probably have to be made, if it's to be, as I intended, a timeline for the movie rather than the short story.

[rdx]

Does it matter if Jack is that bit older than Ennis? As Ang Lee is so specific about the difference in their ages when he's introducing them, it seems that it mattered to him. Maybe he perceived Jack as slightly more "experienced" than Ennis not only in having been on Brokeback the year before but in other matters as well. Any thoughts on this?

I'd say it doesn't matter; the SS and the film have their differences but I think it's very natural: finesses are expressed differently in film and in literature without being contradictory. In the film it is very clear that Jack is more experienced..in many ways and I think he's also, at least a bit, older than Ennis.

Ennis's line
"...til' I was 19. Then he got married, and er..no more room for me..and that's how come er..me end up here."
suggests (at least to me) that Ennis didn't turn 19 'just last week' but months before, early 1963 or even late 1962.

My conclusion: Ennis is 19 and Jack is 20 in the summer of 1963.

[myprivatejack]

I have always thought that both were 19 years old,but I agree with rdx in that this doesn't matter; both s.s. and movie have some differences that,IMO,serve to increase or remark some circumstances according to Ang's point of view.In this sense,I also think that he has wanted to indicate more clearly Jack's bolder and more aggressive in sexual matters character.
For example,when he says in another interview that he showed Ennis washing himself in a second plane,placing more emphasis in Jack's face and reactions,to demonstrate that he was more innocent to understand what was happenning to him and,for this reason,he felt more free and less guilty in showing his naked body.Whereas Jack,with more previous experience,"didn't need a sex manual" and was sure of the irresistible attraction he felt for his bud,so Ang wanted to show this with his swallows,half glances and general nervousness in a clearer way that only could be perceived with a first plane.I suppose that this could be more logical if Jack were slightly older than Ennis.But I also think that this is due to the fact that Ennis is a country boy,who has lived in a closed,repressed environment; whereas Jack is,somehow,more urban for his rodeo's activities,and,so,more open to any kind of experiences,more than a simple fact of being a year older or not.

[rdx]

I suppose that this could be more logical if Jack were slightly older than Ennis.But I also think that this is due to the fact that Ennis is a country boy,who has lived in a closed,repressed environment; whereas Jack is,somehow,more urban for his rodeo's activities,and,so,more open to any kind of experiences,more than a simple fact of being a year older or not.

Yup, Jack's surroundings have been wider than Ennis's: Jack has seen the world, been out there, while Ennis " 'bout the only travelling I ever done is 'round the coffee pot lookin' for the handle" (the quote by jackster).

Double Meanings of BBM lines:

It´s as if the first was with his feet on the ground and the second more volatile,with a free spirit like the wind;maybe Ennis was from some Zodiac sign of Earth and Jack surely of Air,such as Capricorn and Aquarius.

The mother of all conclusions: Jack turned 20 early 1963. 

[bluemountainsky]

I always got the feeling that Ennis had already turned 20, while Jack's birthday was in the fall. My understanding is that they met in early June of 1963. I think Ennis's birthday was in the early spring (March or April), and Jack's was probably September. Annie Proulx uses a lot of colloquial language in her writing, and I noticed that she does the same thing in other stories. So "not yet 20" wouldn't necessarily mean that both Ennis and Jack were still 19. They could have both already turned 20, earlier that year, or late the previous year. Or perhaps Ennis was turning 20 in July, and Jack sometime in the autumn. Or Ennis could have turned 20 in the spring, or early that year in winter, and Jack was the one who turned 20 that summer they worked together, (example, Ennis's birthday is in January or February, Jack's is in July) So I came to the conclusion that they were both born in 1943 and Ennis's 20th birthday is either in the spring, a few months before he met Jack, or in July, in the midst of their summer together. Jack, I concluded was probably born in the fall, or summer, so when they meet, he's either just about to turn 20 or several months shy of it. Given what Lureen told Ennis at the end, that Jack was still 39 when he died, it implies that Jack's birthday wasn't in the summer, since he most likely dies in July or August of 1983 a few months before he would have turned 40, hence I would say that Jack was born in September or October, and Ennis was born earlier the same year in the spring or summer. The age difference between them was most likely only 3-6 months, with Ennis being the "older" one.