Author Topic: A Character We Love to Hate  (Read 19499 times)

Offline Stephen

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Re: A Character We Love to Hate
« Reply #30 on: Apr 11, 2006, 06:13 AM »
Oh I love this heated thread! Yes, JerBear, you had the last word last night ( rather early this am) and I can see sweet Mrs. Twist biding her time until her angry husband dies thus giving her a few years of solitary peace.....anyway, as to your post, Patriot, I agree with all you say IF you use the written story as support; but I still maintain that the film portrays Mr. Twist, through his brilliant and subltle acting, a vile, embittered man. As Tpe states, the film gives ample clues to this man's singular nastiness. So now I have the last word!  Let's hear some more.......
« Last Edit: Apr 11, 2006, 06:17 AM by Stephen »
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Offline camom

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Re: A Character We Love to Hate
« Reply #31 on: Apr 14, 2006, 11:28 PM »
It's clear from both the movie and the story that Mr. Twist is angry, bitter, and abusive towards just about everyone.  Homophobic?  I'm not so sure.  He doesn't say anything derogatory about having Jack and Ennis (or Jack and the ranch foreman) living together; all his anger is directed towards the point that he can't get any help.  I think refusing to let Ennis have the ashes is just part of his vindictiveness.  If Ennis had been a woman, I can't see him letting her have the ashes, either. 

camom 

Offline hpv

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Re: A Character We Love to Hate
« Reply #32 on: Apr 16, 2006, 05:40 AM »
I saw yesterday on TV an episode from the series
100 centre street it was S.02 Ep.17 -BTY-its a fantastic series IHO
and there he was our disliked  "John Twist" I mean the actor Peter McRobbie
he played as officer in NYPD that was charged with some misconducted behavior
anyway he played there the same repugnant, antipathic & sleazy character as he was in BBM
and he did it  so well - a great actor
so I felt I have to share it with you
::) ??? :o
« Last Edit: Apr 16, 2006, 09:20 AM by hpv »
"What Jack remembered and craved in a way he could neither help nor understand was the time that distant summer on Brokeback when Ennis had come up behind him and pulled him close,the silent embrace satisfying some shared and sexless hunger."
"I miss you so much I can hardly stand it."

Offline Patriot1

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Re: A Character We Love to Hate
« Reply #33 on: Apr 16, 2006, 01:50 PM »
I saw yesterday on TV an episode from the series
100 centre street it was S.02 Ep.17 -BTY-its a fantastic series IHO

  Where is 100 Centre Street playing?  NBC, CBS, ABC?  What a wonderful program!!!

Tell you what...truth is, sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it...

Love is a force of nature.

Offline Rod

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Re: A Character We Love to Hate
« Reply #34 on: Apr 16, 2006, 02:08 PM »
Yes, Peter McRobbie is brilliant in his understated role as seething homophobia incarnate! He hardly moves; the venom is in his voice and eyes as he attempts to negate the sensitivity and vulnerabilities of his wife and Ennis. I found myself nearly holding my breath during this scene.

I didn't really think it was homophobia, he was such an evil cold man, I think he would have loved to have Jack and Ennis living there to do his bidding and fix up his ranch, and also have someone to "lord it over" and be abusive to, I really didn't think he thought of them as homos...I did wonder tho when he told Ennis abut this "other guy" Jack was gonna bring up to the ranch...I just think in his mind Jack was too "high and mighty" for him, not wanting to be buried on the ranch, and his dad BY GOD was gonna set it straight...

Offline Patriot1

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Re: A Character We Love to Hate
« Reply #35 on: Apr 16, 2006, 03:21 PM »
...I just think in his mind Jack was too "high and mighty" for him, not wanting to be buried on the ranch, and his dad BY GOD was gonna set it straight...

Actually, John was lucky to get any ashes at all. Laurene could (and in my belief, should) have kept all the ashes together.

Tell you what...truth is, sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it...

Love is a force of nature.

Offline camom

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Re: A Character We Love to Hate
« Reply #36 on: Apr 16, 2006, 10:01 PM »
...I just think in his mind Jack was too "high and mighty" for him, not wanting to be buried on the ranch, and his dad BY GOD was gonna set it straight...

Actually, John was lucky to get any ashes at all. Laurene could (and in my belief, should) have kept all the ashes together.



You know, that's kind of odd, too.  There's no indication that Lureen even met Jack's folks, so it's a little strange that she would send half the ashes up there.  I wonder if Jack's mom asked for them?  I can't see Jack's father wanting them, but once he had them, for sure he would keep control of them.

camom

Offline Stephen

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Re: A Character We Love to Hate
« Reply #37 on: Apr 17, 2006, 07:47 AM »
Yes, Peter McRobbie is brilliant in his understated role as seething homophobia incarnate! He hardly moves; the venom is in his voice and eyes as he attempts to negate the sensitivity and vulnerabilities of his wife and Ennis. I found myself nearly holding my breath during this scene.

I didn't really think it was homophobia, he was such an evil cold man, I think he would have loved to have Jack and Ennis living there to do his bidding and fix up his ranch, and also have someone to "lord it over" and be abusive to, I really didn't think he thought of them as homos...I did wonder tho when he told Ennis abut this "other guy" Jack was gonna bring up to the ranch...I just think in his mind Jack was too "high and mighty" for him, not wanting to be buried on the ranch, and his dad BY GOD was gonna set it straight...

I think your take on Mr. Twist makes sense, Rod.  It seems evident that he is disappointed and even disgusted with his son and now he won't have the chance to lord it over Jack and his friend; and so Mr. Twist is further infuriated that his disappointing son thinks he's too good for the family  plot.  And even if there is not overt sign of homophobia, I can't help but think Mr. Twist must think that on top of everything, his son is a faggot--a big talking, do-nothing, holier-than-thou rodeo flunkie!
« Last Edit: Apr 26, 2006, 12:04 PM by Stephen »
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Offline Marge Innavera

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Re: A Character We Love to Hate
« Reply #38 on: Apr 26, 2006, 10:02 AM »
The old man spoke angrily. "I can't get no help out here. Jack used a say, 'Ennis del Mar,' he used a say, I'm goin a bring him up here one a these days and we'll lick this damn ranch into shape.' . . . So he says,  But like most a Jack's ideas it never come to pass."

I don't know how it could be any plainer what Annie was trying to get across. The old man was pissed he couldn't get any help, jack kept promising to come back with someone to help but he never did it.  If the old man was that homophobic does anyone here really believe Jack would be telling his father he was bringing his boyfriend to live and work there?  Now, as I said in another post, I am sure the old man wasn't about to celebrate Jack and Ennis's 25 wedding anniversary but it sure seems to me all he really wanted was the help, no matter where it came from. 

That was my take on it, and it made the motif of missed opportunities all the more tragic.

Twist Sr. wouldn't have been pleasant to deal with; but if Jack and Ennis either built a cabin or fixed up an outbuilding - standard practice on a ranch for a "hired hand", which Ennis would have ostensibly been - they wouldn't even have been living in the house and iit wouldn't have been difficult for them to avoid the father most of the time. Ranch work is demanding, and a place that run-down, they could have pretty much made their own life with occasional shared meals in the house as a concession to Jack's mother.

And his statements made it pretty clear that the deterioration of the ranch was really bugging him; I'd assume it had been his own father's ranch and he knew it would end with him.  Once Ennis and Jack did start to make improvements, Twist Sr. would never have been a nice guy but he might have become somewhat easier to live with. And as long as either parent was alive and living on the ranch, they would have been fairly safe from outside attacks as long as they used some common sense: the arrangement, to the outside world, would have been two aging parents whose son had moved back to help run the ranch, plus a hired man. Or Ennis could even have been passed off as a nephew or cousin.

But IMO it wasn't a matter of Jack reneging on a promise, although Twist Sr. would have no way of knowing that. Both in the "it can be this way always" conversation and the meeting after the divorce, Ennis shoots down any idea of their living together. And while the dangers are very real, the real stumbling block is his internalized fear and self-loathing. That would never have allowed him to live in a situation where two third parties knew what their relationship was, and Jack apparently realized that.
« Last Edit: Apr 26, 2006, 10:12 AM by Marge Innavera »
Jack: "We kept it alive for each other for 20 years, even though all we had was just those bits ‘n pieces of time together, even with all the loneliness an’ after it turned bitter." 
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Read Gift of Exile here.

Offline Patriot1

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Re: A Character We Love to Hate
« Reply #39 on: Apr 26, 2006, 11:26 AM »
But IMO it wasn't a matter of Jack reneging on a promise, although Twist Sr. would have no way of knowing that. Both in the "it can be this way always" conversation and the meeting after the divorce, Ennis shoots down any idea of their living together. And while the dangers are very real, the real stumbling block is his internalized fear and self-loathing. That would never have allowed him to live in a situation where two third parties knew what their relationship was, and Jack apparently realized that.

And as it turns out in the end, everybody knew.  Laureen knew, Alma knew, the Twists knew and knew for years, Aguirre knew for years, everyone knew.  I suspect even Randall knew.  It was several years between the time Jack met Randall and the end so there were several times when he would be gone for a week. I would think he might have asked where Jack was going.  But then, Jack did lie a lot.

I love Jack Twist and his mother.  Jack, the boy of hopes and dreams and love, and Mrs. Twist, who unquestioningly accepted the man who loved her son. The man who brought her son home once or twice a year if for no other reason.

Tell you what...truth is, sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it...

Love is a force of nature.

Offline TJ

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Re: A Character We Love to Hate
« Reply #40 on: Apr 26, 2006, 03:27 PM »
Quote
The old man spoke angrily. "I can't get no help out here. Jack used a say, 'Ennis del Mar,' he used a say, I'm goin a bring him up here one a these days and we'll lick this damn ranch into shape.' . . . So he says,  But like most a Jack's ideas it never come to pass."

I think that Mr. Twist seemed to be more upset that Jack did not stay at the ranch at Lighting Flat. And, he was bothered by the fact that Jack did have plans to bring Ennis up there but Ennis never showed up to help on the ranch.

But, Jack NEVER told Ennis that he wanted him to join him at his father's ranch and they both work there with a cow and calf operation together.

What Jack said to his folks was not what he said to Ennis.

What I would "hate" about Mr. Twist was that he punished his little boy with a belt for not pissing directly into the toilet bowl in the bathroom and after he whipped him, he urinated on the kid. His father made a bigger mess of thing than little Jack Junior did. His father was an emotional mess, too.
(Ennis) is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream . . . lets a panel of the dream slide forward . . . it might stoke the day, rewarm that old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong.