Topic: Pre-Reunion, Reunion, and Post-Reunion

[stacp]

[Also, the thought that Ennis had those shirts and postcard hanging up for years, caressing them maybe every day, feels comforting that he's devoted to Jack's memory. Last time I studied that scene, watching how carefully Ennis folds Alma Jr.'s sweater away, his closet reminded me of a hope chest -- something a young girl uses to store her treasures in preparation for when she finds true love and becomes a bride. A romantic notion that Ennis seeks comfort and receives it from the treasures he carefully places in his own version of a hope chest - a tribute to love.

I, too, love this idea of the hope chest.  I think the closet was a shrine to Jack, and Ennis' way of protecting and cherishing their love.  I didn't think Ennis totally lost contact with Alma Jr. for those two years, rather he was in such a state after Jack's death, he probably saw her very little and wasn't very involved in her life. 

I'm sorry if this is OT, but smilesalot bringing up the idea of the hope chest made me think of something else.  I've often thought that the scene where Jack's Mom gives Ennis the shirts is almost like a military funeral, where a soldier hands the grieving widow the American flag that was draped over the fallen soldier's casket.  Jack's Mom appears to be giving Ennis' these shirts in such a way.  Ennis will then take these symbols of his fallen angel home with him and create his own sacred place (or hope chest) where Jack will be remembered and treasured.  *Sniff* Does anyone have a hankie?  :'(

[smilesalot]

I love that, it's true, how she keeps the shirts carefuly folded. IMO she is doing this so Mr. Nasty Twist doesn't question the fact that Ennis is bringing BOTH shirts home. But I love how both shirts are handled with such reverence, and that little unspoken exchange once Ennis goes out the door, how he gestures with the paper bag -- just a lovely tribute to their beloved Jack.

Back on topic (I think) in the SS it appears Ennis just hangs the shirts on the walls of the trailer along with the postcard. Of course, as discussed, in the movie the "shrine" is in the closet. Why do you think that is? Sorry, I think this was discussed in another thread.....BTW thanks for the encouraging comments, all.

[welshwitch]

The shrine idea says the object of veneration is dead, saintly and presumably in a better place. I'm not convinved that, brought up by a Methodist mother Ennis would have much truck with popish notions like relics. And I wonder if he'd consider Jack as an obvious candidate for salvation - I've always thought that his childhood conditioning may have had something to do with his fear of admitting his attraction to another man.

In terms of the movie, however, the shrine idea works well as an indicator of Ennis's ability to externalise his love for Jack.

[tpe]

The shrine idea says the object of veneration is dead, saintly and presumably in a better place. I'm not convinved that, brought up by a Methodist mother Ennis would have much truck with popish notions like relics. And I wonder if he'd consider Jack as an obvious candidate for salvation - I've always thought that his childhood conditioning may have had something to do with his fear of admitting his attraction to another man.

In terms of the movie, however, the shrine idea works well as an indicator of Ennis's ability to externalise his love for Jack.

Jack's bloodied shirt do have the flavour of a martyr's relic.  The tire iron is the instrument of his passion.  Ennis's own shirt can be likened to a cope or even a chrysalis of sleep and resurrection.

Perhaps this is far fetched to some, but this was the flavour I got in my later viewings of the scene.  It was almost as if Ennis was performing a Benediction when he reveals the shirts...

[smilesalot]

I have to admit, I find the image of "shrine" and "relic" as being too far removed from Ennis' earthy nature. Throughout the whole movie he is closed off, yet there are moments when he reveals that he is a tactile person, even when it's just to give a little punch or shove. Which is the reason why the Reunion scene always slays me....from Ennis jittery anticipation, to his ear-grabbing I'm-going-to-swallow-you-whole kiss, to his tender "later" and head nudge, to the way he hooks his thumbs in his pockets because he knows otherwise he will not be able to keep his hand off Jack...Ennis just reveals himself so much.

Every day I see him caressing those shirts, touching the postcard, in an attempt to "stoke" embers of Jack's memory. As if to say, "you're with me today" "I feel you in this moment." Maybe he just leaves that door wide open, so when he catches a glimpse of it out of the corner of his eye, it's like Jack standing there in the front of the closet door. So much more intimate, more personal, than the image I receive when I think of "shrine",  "relic","veneration", "benediction".

IMO the blood on Jack's shirt represents BOTH of them, Jack was trying to staunch Ennis' blood with his sleeve and when Ennis slugged him Jack's blood mingled with Ennis'. I can picture Jack looking at that blood mixed together and becoming one - his greatest wish, his steadfast dream. Ennis preserves this, because now he can admit it was his wish, too. My take on it...just thinking out loud.

[NoReins]

I have to admit, I find the image of "shrine" and "relic" as being too far removed from Ennis' earthy nature. Throughout the whole movie he is closed off, yet there are moments when he reveals that he is a tactile person, even when it's just to give a little punch or shove. Which is the reason why the Reunion scene always slays me....from Ennis jittery anticipation, to his ear-grabbing I'm-going-to-swallow-you-whole kiss, to his tender "later" and head nudge, to the way he hooks his thumbs in his pockets because he knows otherwise he will not be able to keep his hand off Jack...Ennis just reveals himself so much.

Every day I see him caressing those shirts, touching the postcard, in an attempt to "stoke" embers of Jack's memory. As if to say, "you're with me today" "I feel you in this moment." Maybe he just leaves that door wide open, so when he catches a glimpse of it out of the corner of his eye, it's like Jack standing there in the front of the closet door. So much more intimate, more personal, than the image I receive when I think of "shrine",  "relic","veneration", "benediction".

IMO the blood on Jack's shirt represents BOTH of them, Jack was trying to staunch Ennis' blood with his sleeve and when Ennis slugged him Jack's blood mingled with Ennis'. I can picture Jack looking at that blood mixed together and becoming one - his greatest wish, his steadfast dream. Ennis preserves this, because now he can admit it was his wish, too. My take on it...just thinking out loud.

Go right ahead and think out loud. I totally agree with you, for what it's worth. The bit I highlighted is beautifully put :\'(

One thing, though - Jack didn't actually bleed when Ennis punched him, did he? It was just Ennis's blood on the shirts - but I reckon that when Jack looked at the shirts he felt like he had a part of Ennis with him because of the blood, as opposed to just something that had belonged to Ennis....much more poignant and sacred, IMHO.

[jesseanne21]

I do think the army only attempted to enlist married men with children as a last resort during the Vietnam War...

 

Yep, I believe thats' the case.  By the summer of Brokeback, Ennis was only a few months away from marriage and safety from the draft.  Jack had no such prospects in sight.

As far as Ennis being drafted, at that time all men had to register for the draft when they were 18.  Not everyone registered was drafted - it was like a lottery, done by birthday.  And, married men WERE NOT excluded from the draft.

[edgar]

One thing, though - Jack didn't actually bleed when Ennis punched him, did he? It was just Ennis's blood on the shirts - but I reckon that when Jack looked at the shirts he felt like he had a part of Ennis with him because of the blood, as opposed to just something that had belonged to Ennis....much more poignant and sacred, IMHO.

No blood of Jack's on the shirts....

But twenty years' worth of tears.

[jesseanne21]

I do think the army only attempted to enlist married men with children as a last resort during the Vietnam War...

 

Yep, I believe thats' the case.  By the summer of Brokeback, Ennis was only a few months away from marriage and safety from the draft.  Jack had no such prospects in sight.

In the US in the 1960's there were two ways to get into the military:  enlist or be drafted.  Since neither Ennis or Jack mentioned the possibility (or desirability) of enlisting, they must have been worried about the draft. 

At that time all men over the age of 18 had to register with Selective Services.  All men (MARRIED and single) aged 18-24 were eligible for the draft, but not every one was selected.

The draft was handled like a lottery.  The draftees were selected by their birthdays (month, day, year).  So in 1963, men born between 1939 and 1945 could have been drafted.
Each day of those six years was given a number and then the number was written on balls (like the lottery) and loaded into a drum.  Then balls were selected at random and that established the sequence in which men were called for the draft.  (I think it may have been a separate lottery also by year, too).  The lottery was done publicly and the selection date sequence would have been published (in newpapers) and official government publications.

In 1963, both Ennis and Jack would have known how close they were to being drafted.

[CrimsonSky]

I do think the army only attempted to enlist married men with children as a last resort during the Vietnam War...

 

Yep, I believe thats' the case.  By the summer of Brokeback, Ennis was only a few months away from marriage and safety from the draft.  Jack had no such prospects in sight.

In the US in the 1960's there were two ways to get into the military:  enlist or be drafted.  Since neither Ennis or Jack mentioned the possibility (or desirability) of enlisting, they must have been worried about the draft. 

At that time all men over the age of 18 had to register with Selective Services.  All men (MARRIED and single) aged 18-24 were eligible for the draft, but not every one was selected.

The draft was handled like a lottery.  The draftees were selected by their birthdays (month, day, year).  So in 1963, men born between 1939 and 1945 could have been drafted.
Each day of those six years was given a number and then the number was written on balls (like the lottery) and loaded into a drum.  Then balls were selected at random and that established the sequence in which men were called for the draft.  (I think it may have been a separate lottery also by year, too).  The lottery was done publicly and the selection date sequence would have been published (in newpapers) and official government publications.

In 1963, both Ennis and Jack would have known how close they were to being drafted.

Thanks for explaining that, jesseanne So they basically just got lucky then? Although, Jack says the army didn't get him cause he was "too busted up" from bullriding, so presumably he was drafted, but they turned him down Well, like Ennis says in the ss, he looks in one piece to me, but I'm glad they were both spared from it

[jesseanne21]

After you get called up, you have to take a physical.  If you pass then you're drafted.

[jesseanne21]

After you get called up, you have to take a physical.  If you pass then you're drafted.

Let me rephrase that...

If your date was selected by lottery you would receive a letter saying "Greetings," and have to report to the local draft board for a physical.

If you passed the physical, and there we no special circumstances (like married with children) then you were drafted.

[welshwitch]

Edgar's post reminds me of churchill's " blood, sweat, toil and tears" - in this case on both shirts their sweat from working on Brokeback, Ennis's blood and tears and maybe Jack's tears too - he's had the shirts for almost twenty years.

[CrimsonSky]

After you get called up, you have to take a physical.  If you pass then you're drafted.

Let me rephrase that...

If your date was selected by lottery you would receive a letter saying "Greetings," and have to report to the local draft board for a physical.

If you passed the physical, and there we no special circumstances (like married with children) then you were drafted.

Well, if it was me, Jack would've passed his physical with flying colours, but I guess the US Army have a rather different criteria! 

[CherryCake]

One thing, though - Jack didn't actually bleed when Ennis punched him, did he? It was just Ennis's blood on the shirts - but I reckon that when Jack looked at the shirts he felt like he had a part of Ennis with him because of the blood, as opposed to just something that had belonged to Ennis....much more poignant and sacred, IMHO.

No blood of Jack's on the shirts....

But twenty years' worth of tears.

Ya know, I was just thinking this las night.... first Jack was  goofing off and lasso'd Ennis, and Ennis was not in the best of moods, so the wrestling kind of esculated.  Jack accidently knees Ennis and Ennis starts bleeding.      The only reason Jack has blood on his shirt is because he came over to comfort and help Ennis.  "Ennis,  Ennis, are you o.k.?"   Then of course, Ennis punches Jack.   Had Jack not tried to help Ennis he would not gotten blood on his shirt.  He was in love with Ennis.
The proof is the blood.

[smilesalot]

Sorry, I thought Ennis' punch cut Jack's lip. I think in the ss it mentions how pitiful Jack's bruises were. Regardless, I wondered as well what the blood meant to Jack. I guess I never thought about his motivation for taking the shirt and his frame of mind until now...

I remember the first time I saw the movie, I was like, wow he has Ennis's shirt...he kept it as a momento of him. So did he think, well this is all I'm going to have from this summer on Brokeback? And then after thinking more about this, it touched me deeply to think of Jack taking the shirt ANYWAYS -- even though he had just been sucker punched by the man he loved. The blood on the shirt seemed so VIOLENT - yet, maybe Jack looked at that blood and thought tenderly of how deeply he wanted to heal the hurt he saw in Ennis. Maybe Jack looked at Ennis and thought, " I want to be the one to finally do right by him." Hence, Jack's concern after Ennis meets up with a bear, and the way he reaches out and caresses Ennis after the "no reins" comment. Even with Lureen, the way Jack kind of caresses her shoulder when he's trying to stick up for her and himself during the Thanksgiving scene. It just shows how complex Jack was. Others have called him a sexual predator but IMO he was not at all that way, because along with his sexual needs, his need to comfort was paramount.

Might be OT but I was equally touched by how Mrs. Twist reaches out to Ennis right after Mr. Twist tells him about Randall. To me, her gesture echoed so many of Jack's....I was like " Oh yes, so that's where he got it from."

[welshwitch]

Jack evidently gets his touchy-feely side from his mother, just as Ennis gets the "swing a punch at it if it annoys you" thing from his father. Ennis seems to me to have almost no feminine side, while Jack appears to have both.

[NoReins]

Jack evidently gets his touchy-feely side from his mother, just as Ennis gets the "swing a punch at it if it annoys you" thing from his father. Ennis seems to me to have almost no feminine side, while Jack appears to have both.

I don't think Ennis just gets that from his father - I think it came from his brother too, and that influence continued after his parents were killed so it was the prevailing influence in his young life. Jack, on the other hand, had both parents around and I think it's reasonable to assume that his mother would have comforted him after his father beat him.

[Rosie]

No blood of Jack's on the shirts....

But twenty years' worth of tears.....

The above quote from Edgar is BEAUTIFUL and absolutely heartbreaking, and I shall think of it everytime I watch that closet scene from now on.

Rosie
x

[ms.bluesky]

i think that ennis lived every moment of his life wondering what jack was doing not just thodse four years but all his life cause when he got his card back saying"declind" did u see the face of surprise like it wasnt surpose to end that way lol

[Rosie]

I agree ms.bluesky I think that they both spent their life wondering what the other was doing when they weren't together, How sad. :\'(

  I see that you've ended your message lol and I seem to be the only person on this site that doesn't know what lol means! (Maybe I'm just stupid ^*()Can you enlighten me?
Rosie
xx

[gimmejack]

lol=laughing out loud
 

[Patriot1]

No wonder Ennis practically flew down that landing and landed on Jack!

There isn't much that puts me into a full belly laugh but seeing your description in my minds eye has me roaring.  Thanks, I needed that.

[smilesalot]

No wonder Ennis practically flew down that landing and landed on Jack!

There isn't much that puts me into a full belly laugh but seeing your description in my minds eye has me roaring.  Thanks, I needed that.

Glad t'be of service!!  You can tell I just LOVE this scene.