Topic: Let's get physical: Ennis's fights

[aintfoolin]

  Let's face it. Ennis was not a patient man. He physically fought alot in this movie  with everyone ,.as well as he did emotionally with himself.  This is no kids' game.  Alma, Jack, the bikers, the trucker etc...  all suffered the wrath of Ennis's fists.  In some cases without warning. Why was he so angry ? and at whom?   I have yet to understand the punch to sweet Jack.  The SS alludes to his being hit by his brother and him vowing to end this pattern of gettin beat up.( By kickin butt now , ask questions later.   Any takers?               

[jackster]

Not really sure exactly what your asking here, but here's some thoughts.

“Ennis ran full throttle on all roads whether fence mending or money spending”

This is such an important aspect of this story and film I’m surprised it’s not discussed more. Of course MUCH has been written about male anger in general and how it is actualized in the modern world. IMHO Ennis is frustrated with himself (Annie has said it’s self-hate, I don’t think it seems that brutal, but maybe). It's not a kids' game, but like a child who lashes out physically when things don’t go his way, that’s what I see Ennis doing. Several times he cry's while acting out as well, just like a child. Almost every time his hetero side is threatened he reacts physically, even with the one(s) he loves. Thus the hit to Jack (and almost Alma later in the kitchen). He’s so frustrated that Jack made him love him, made him FEEL love for him, and now he has to go away and the real world comes back. So POW!

“Dad says, You got a take him unawares, don't say nothin’ to him, make him feel some pain, get out fast and keep doin’ it until he takes the message. Nothin’ like hurtin’ somebody to make him hear good.”

The critical alley scene at the end of summer '63 when he punches the wall, he’s bloodying himself because of his inner torment, trying to make himself “hear good”, but it won’t work. I think whoever came up with the tagline “A Force of Nature” really nailed it, this love inside him for Jack is something he can’t control, no amount of pain (his or someone else’s) will make it go away.

jackster

[jacks_key]

Almost every time his hetero side is threatened he reacts physically, even with the one(s) he loves. Thus the hit to Jack (and almost Alma later in the kitchen). He’s so frustrated that Jack made him love him, made him FEEL love for him, and now he has to go away and the real world comes back. So POW!
jackster

That's how I see it - he turns violent when his masculinity is threatened, because he is afraid of that side of himself that has fallen in love with another man.   

[manhattangirl]

Great thread, thanks aintfoolin:

I have yet to understand the punch to sweet Jack.  The SS alludes to his being hit by his brother and him vowing to end this pattern of gettin beat up.( By kickin butt now , ask questions later.   Any takers?              

IMO:

When he struck Jack, that was understandable, not saying it was right but understandable. He was frustrated and angered by the thought of leaving Jack.   When they were wrestling  it was playful at first, but turned into something else, Ennis wanted to hurt Jack, not out of anger, but out of that sexual need, frustraton, love, and knowing he will never see him or have him again. All these feelings must have arose in him and  was just too much for him consciously to accept.     When Jack's knee hit his nose and the blood flowed Jack took the sleeve of his shirt, wiped it offered words of comfort to his lover.  Ennis struck back in the only way he was taught, and trained to by giving Jack the pain he felt inside, but couldn't express verbally.

He didn't know why he did it, he could have felt threaten at that moment.   But it bothered him years after that.     

[LuvJackNasty]

Not really sure exactly what your asking here, but here's some thoughts.

“Ennis ran full throttle on all roads whether fence mending or money spending”

This is such an important aspect of this story and film I’m surprised it’s not discussed more. Of course MUCH has been written about male anger in general and how it is actualized in the modern world. IMHO Ennis is frustrated with himself (Annie has said it’s self-hate, I don’t think it seems that brutal, but maybe). It's not a kids' game, but like a child who lashes out physically when things don’t go his way, that’s what I see Ennis doing. Several times he cry's while acting out as well, just like a child. Almost every time his hetero side is threatened he reacts physically, even with the one(s) he loves. Thus the hit to Jack (and almost Alma later in the kitchen). He’s so frustrated that Jack made him love him, made him FEEL love for him, and now he has to go away and the real world comes back. So POW!

“Dad says, You got a take him unawares, don't say nothin’ to him, make him feel some pain, get out fast and keep doin’ it until he takes the message. Nothin’ like hurtin’ somebody to make him hear good.”

The critical alley scene at the end of summer '63 when he punches the wall, he’s bloodying himself because of his inner torment, trying to make himself “hear good”, but it won’t work. I think whoever came up with the tagline “A Force of Nature” really nailed it, this love inside him for Jack is something he can’t control, no amount of pain (his or someone else’s) will make it go away.
jackster

Great post Jackster 

I always took the punch to Jack as Ennis not being able to articulate his many feelings about being made to leave BBM- the anger, the sense of loss.

 I think that he had so many conflicting emotions inside of him after BBM- live the status quo, wanting to be with Jack, the fear of being with Jack etc and he had no way to express that nor anyone to express that too and it manifested itself physically.

[manhattangirl]

Please guys tell me if I reading this all wrong:

  Maybe he doesn't have a hetero side, never did.  But repressing his homosexuality, and his father sure help in that, with that nice side show to see Earl's body.   If that doesn't make you repress a few things what will? (I don't know if I'm making sense) ,  Jack came along awaken something in Ennis that was there docile.  It caught Ennis unawares,  like that punch he gave to Jack.   Proclaiming from the outset of their relationship, "I'm not queer",  and deep inside saying "hey maybe I am. ", and fighting it from that moment on.

It had to be more in my mind, then the fear of being found out.  The battle went too deep, too personal, way too desperate. his violence plays a major factor in his reactions to situations he couldn't handle, finely taught by his father.   
That kind of battle could only last so long, without some other underlining factor.   I think for Ennis is the realization of his homosexuality was something he couldn't come to terms with until the end, after Jack's death.

His anger, self hate,  feeling short changed could be the direct result of his own inability to see who he truly was.   He lived his life in the shadows, not staying in one job,  living only for the time he would spent with Jack.   Even then way out in the middle of nowhere, but not letting go of Jack. 

The final confrontation was so telling.   Ennis's separates himself from Jack with the "boys like you" remark.   Why?   Because Jack is more comfortable with who he is then Ennis, and Ennis could never be at that same point?

What I'm trying to and maybe clumsily is that Ennis's battle goes much deeper than just being found out, but avoiding coming to terms with himself, coming out , even to himself. 

All of these things created the man that found himself in a situation he couldn't deal with, and resulted in what in the end was a sum total of his life two shirts hanging in a closet. 

[rpmnh]

I have yet to understand the punch to sweet Jack.

Here's my take: Ennis was lashing out at Jack because Jack was being "blamed" for stirring up emotions in Ennis that he had a hard time dealing with. Jack was being held responsible for the inner turmoil that was rising to the surface in Ennis. For Ennis, Jack was the source and catalyst for a wide array of intense feelings and emotions that were new to him - emotions that gave him great pleasure and pain, as well, hence the myriad of feelings and inner conflict.

Love and hate are two emotions that have deep similarities - they both tend to be very intense. Apathy is an emotion that is very different from love, not hate. It is not uncommon to see a "loving" relationship turn into a "hateful" one fairly quickly (e.g. one partner discovers the other is cheating, etc.). On the other hand, having a real "loving" relationship turn into an apathetic one is a slow process, which is indicative of how dissimilar the emotions are.

[tpe]

Please guys tell me if I reading this all wrong:

  Maybe he doesn't have a hetero side, never did.  But repressing his homosexuality, and his father sure help in that, with that nice side show to see Earl's body.   If that doesn't make you repress a few things what will? (I don't know if I'm making sense) ,  Jack came along awaken something in Ennis that was there docile.  It caught Ennis unawares,  like that punch he gave to Jack.   Proclaiming from the outset of their relationship, "I'm not queer",  and deep inside saying "hey maybe I am. ", and fighting it from that moment on.

It had to be more in my mind, then the fear of being found out.  The battle went too deep, too personal, way too desperate. his violence plays a major factor in his reactions to situations he couldn't handle, finely taught by his father.   
That kind of battle could only last so long, without some other underlining factor.   I think for Ennis is the realization of his homosexuality was something he couldn't come to terms with until the end, after Jack's death.

His anger, self hate,  feeling short changed could be the direct result of his own inability to see who he truly was.   He lived his life in the shadows, not staying in one job,  living only for the time he would spent with Jack.   Even then way out in the middle of nowhere, but not letting go of Jack. 

The final confrontation was so telling.   Ennis's separates himself from Jack with the "boys like you" remark.   Why?   Because Jack is more comfortable with who he is then Ennis, and Ennis could never be at that same point?

What I'm trying to and maybe clumsily is that Ennis's battle goes much deeper than just being found out, but avoiding coming to terms with himself, coming out , even to himself. 

All of these things created the man that found himself in a situation he couldn't deal with, and resulted in what in the end was a sum total of his life two shirts hanging in a closet. 

Many commentators have early on mentioned that Ennis dealt with frustration and confusion by resorting to violent acts -- be it to himself (as in thr alley scene) or to others (Jack, or the truck driver.)

We should note that Ennis was like this even before meeting Jack.  His loveless upbringing made him very stoic to hardships and pain, but I think it had the unfortunate effect of stunting him emotionally.  The fact that he grew up having to act all grown up too early and not being nurtured in a loving family atmosphere explains a lot of this.

Yes, IMO, Ennis's battle goes much deeper than his inability to face up to his love for Jack.  But THAT is a large part of it, to be sure.

[welshwitch]

It's also true that those who are inarticulate often resort to violent action as the only way of expressing, conveying, even purging their emotions - and that's what Ennis does, I think.

[FlwrChild]

Quote from manhattangirl:

IMO:

When he struck Jack, that was understandable, not saying it was right but understandable. He was frustrated and angered by the thought of leaving Jack.   When they were wrestling  it was playful at first, but turned into something else, Ennis wanted to hurt Jack, not out of anger, but out of that sexual need, frustraton, love, and knowing he will never see him or have him again. All these feelings must have arose in him and  was just too much for him consciously to accept.     When Jack's knee hit his nose and the blood flowed Jack took the sleeve of his shirt, wiped it offered words of comfort to his lover.  Ennis struck back in the only way he was taught, and trained to by giving Jack the pain he felt inside, but couldn't express verbally.

He didn't know why he did it, he could have felt threaten at that moment.   But it bothered him years after that.   

Quote from jackster:

Not really sure exactly what your asking here, but here's some thoughts.

“Ennis ran full throttle on all roads whether fence mending or money spending”

This is such an important aspect of this story and film I’m surprised it’s not discussed more. Of course MUCH has been written about male anger in general and how it is actualized in the modern world. IMHO Ennis is frustrated with himself (Annie has said it’s self-hate, I don’t think it seems that brutal, but maybe). It's not a kids' game, but like a child who lashes out physically when things don’t go his way, that’s what I see Ennis doing. Several times he cry's while acting out as well, just like a child. Almost every time his hetero side is threatened he reacts physically, even with the one(s) he loves. Thus the hit to Jack (and almost Alma later in the kitchen). He’s so frustrated that Jack made him love him, made him FEEL love for him, and now he has to go away and the real world comes back. So POW!

“Dad says, You got a take him unawares, don't say nothin’ to him, make him feel some pain, get out fast and keep doin’ it until he takes the message. Nothin’ like hurtin’ somebody to make him hear good.”
The critical alley scene at the end of summer '63 when he punches the wall, he’s bloodying himself because of his inner torment, trying to make himself “hear good”, but it won’t work. I think whoever came up with the tagline “A Force of Nature” really nailed it, this love inside him for Jack is something he can’t control, no amount of pain (his or someone else’s) will make it go away.

Well, as usual, by the time I get here it's all been said. I thought these two posts said it really well and all of the posts seem to understand Ennis's fundamental personality and internal conflicts.

[aintfoolin]

Thank you all so much for these great enlightening posts. I now much better understand why he punched Jack  the way he did  I was  particularly struck by the comment that Jack became the object of *blame* for those feelings Ennis was forced to aknowledge against his will. I suppose he was having a love-hate relationship with himself...and Jack?                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

[tpe]

Thank you all so much for these great enlightening posts. I now much better understand why he punched Jack  the way he did  I was  particularly struck by the comment that Jack became the object of *blame* for those feelings Ennis was forced to aknowledge against his will. I suppose he was having a love-hate relationship with himself...and Jack?                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

I think there was a degree of love-hate, but I think it was also about Ennis somehow feeling that he was held captive by his love for Jack.  I don't think he really openly resented it, but I suspect that he did try to repress it as much as he could.  Sure, his inability to meet more often in the later years was because of tightening financial/work-related reasons, but I cannot help but think that he also preferred it this way in order to "get away from himself", so to speak.  In a way, Jack embodied "himself" is a very deep sense.

[aintfoolin]

So it was the loss of control over these feelings for Jack that he could not deal with. When he looked at Jack, he saw "himself" or what he could'nt accept about himself deep down. Although he loved Jack right? This would explain his denial I guess, but why continue it?  What did Ennis fear the most ? Bodily harm? or his deep feelings for Jack? Jack was right to put the pressure on him at that last meeting as he sensed that Ennis was pulling further away and maybe gaining even more control over the relationship and the direction Ennis was taking them due to this fear  and he was making Jack feel hope was slipping away.  He did'nt want to loose Ennis, but maybe Jack should  have put even more pressure  delicately on Ennis to come clean about his deep-seated denial  and conflict which was  at the heart of Ennis's refusal to commit to their sweet life.  He tried.  I think as I have said before, Ennis wanted it, just had no idea how to get it except deny the feelings exsisted. The rest would have been easy compared to this. Surely Ennis would have had a sense of freedom  from this tug of war within his soul that he's  never known  and would have Jack to thank for it. Just my thinkin.

[tpe]

So it was the loss of control over these feelings for Jack that he could not deal with. When he looked at Jack, he saw "himself" or what he could'nt accept about himself deep down. Although he loved Jack right? This would explain his denial I guess, but why continue it?  What did Ennis fear the most ? Bodily harm? or his deep feelings for Jack? Jack was right to put the pressure on him at that last meeting as he sensed that Ennis was pulling further away and maybe gaining even more control over the relationship and the direction Ennis was taking them due to this fear  and he was making Jack feel hope was slipping away.  He did'nt want to loose Ennis, but maybe Jack should  have put even more pressure  delicately on Ennis to come clean about his deep-seated denial  and conflict which was  at the heart of Ennis's refusal to commit to their sweet life.  He tried.  I think as I have said before, Ennis wanted it, just had no idea how to get it except deny the feelings exsisted. The rest would have been easy compared to this. Surely Ennis would have had a sense of freedom  from this tug of war within his soul that he's  never known  and would have Jack to thank for it. Just my thinkin.

I had always thought that what Ennis feared the most was that part of himself that was homophobic.  Part of his inner rage must certainly come from denial of such an integral part of oneself.

He certainly feared that open knowledge of their relationship would encounter stern disapproval and perhaps physical attack from society, but I think his greatest struggle was within himself and how he could come to grips with something that another part of him also strongly detested.  The violence within him is thus explained by the internal conflicts, and not really by the external threats...

[stephan]

It's also true that those who are inarticulate often resort to violent action as the only way of expressing, conveying, even purging their emotions - and that's what Ennis does, I think.

In addition to the above, it seems to me that fear also incites some people to violence. Certain homophobes, in today's world, for example....

[aintfoolin]

This is true. People who are ignorant and continue to be *stuck on stupid* mode concerning other s different from themselves very often resort to violent means in expressing themselves. But I think Ennis had a self-hatred at  at least a part of himself. When he had the confrontation with Alma she spoke negative about he and Jack together referring to Jack as "Jack Nasty" indicating that somehow what he and Jack did was dirty or disgusting and forbidden. It was at these times when we see Ennis at his angriest. When his sexuality is questioned. Same with the bikers. It has something to do with Ennis's manhood  in conflict with how he really saw himself I suppose. He takes *road-rage * to new level by attacking some guy through the window of his truck after furiously leaving Alma's Thankgiving dinner.  Perhaps Ennis sees these people as the kind who would most likely harm he and Jack...( the tire-iron people ) if you will if they got the chance. . Anyone who posed a threat to his real inner feelings became a threat to he and Jack's love.  It's part of his feirce posseiveness and protectiveness of Jack .  I feel sometimes maybe it's Ennis's way of  uncontiouslessly saying f--ck you to the world ." I love Jack no matter what you think about it". Apart of him did anyway . He's complicated that way but to Ennis action speaks louder than words.  Kicking someone's ass over it came easily for him.                                                                               

[tpe]

This is true. People who are ignorant and continue to be *stuck on stupid* mode concerning other s different from themselves very often resort to violent means in expressing themselves. But I think Ennis had a self-hatred at  at least a part of himself. When he had the confrontation with Alma she spoke negative about he and Jack together referring to Jack as "Jack Nasty" indicating that somehow what he and Jack did was dirty or disgusting and forbidden. It was at these times when we see Ennis at his angriest. When his sexuality is questioned. Same with the bikers. It has something to do with Ennis's manhood  in conflict with how he really saw himself I suppose. He takes *road-rage * to new level by attacking some guy through the window of his truck after furiously leaving Alma's Thankgiving dinner.  Perhaps Ennis sees these people as the kind who would most likely harm he and Jack...( the tire-iron people ) if you will if they got the chance. . Anyone who posed a threat to his real inner feelings became a threat to he and Jack's love.  It's part of his feirce posseiveness and protectiveness of Jack .  I feel sometimes maybe it's Ennis's way of  uncontiouslessly saying f--ck you to the world ." I love Jack no matter what you think about it". Apart of him did anyway . He's complicated that way but to Ennis action speaks louder than words.  Kicking someone's ass over it came easily for him.                                                                               

I guess in this regard, Ennis is no different from many people who lash out against people when they cannot come to grips with their own internal turnoil.  It is a knee-jerk reaction, I suppose.  It is a kind of protest -- a protest against a sense of helplessness. 

[aintfoolin]

 Perhaps it is also a survival instinct, protection of  one's personal deep seeded pride in his case. I like the way you put it. A protest against helplessness. Beautifully put. I think this was built into Ennis as a natrual instinct as in all of us , but reinforced in Ennis through his childhood traumas. His kick butt and ask questions later is evidence of this i feel. It's like *don't f-ck with me ,and definitly don't mess with Jack* or you'll be dealt with in a violent manner. The part of him that  can't deny ( though he tries)  his deep love for Jack is the  same part that is aggressively protective of he and Jack's love.Anyone who threatens this becomes a victim  sometimes even indirectly as in the case with the unsuspecting guy in the truck after his Thanksgiving day fight with Alma.

[manhattangirl]

I find these posts so interesting.   Ennis is a real contradiction.   He's big, tough, a brawler with no fear.   Kicking butt taking names in a way.   Then this man almost cowers with fear of being found out.   I don't get it.

It doesn't make sense.  Why didn't he take this aggressive nature in living with Jack, loving him, demolishing anyone who get in the way.  True, he was very possessive and protective of Jack when he's with him, Ennis doesn't share, not even having breakfast with Alma, when they came back from the motel.   But he'd stop at the idea of living with him. 

He'd puts his neck out but so far.  Not far enough to live with Jack, to love him openly.  When pushed by Jack to live together Ennis tells the story of Earl and Rich as a reason not to be open.   

Ennis would threaten Alma, threaten Jack, Kick two big bikers butts,  an unsuspecting soul who almost hit him with a truck.   Then in turn, would look suspiciously at a passing car,  think people know about them, meets Jack out in the middle of no where.   Ennis is a deeply complicated person or really crazy.

Poor Jack, he stayed with him for twenty years, if that's not  love, what is it?   

[jackster]

Ennis is a deeply complicated person or really crazy.  

Yeah, manhattangirl, this is exactly why I find Ennis so compelling and to me the more interesting character. No I don't think he's crazy. But I'm left asking WHY? so many times with ol' E. And the greatness of Annie's writing is such that Ennis's story doesn't end (like Jack's), so we're all left with an incomplete story that makes it all the more tantilizing. Like you say here's a guy beatin' (or wanting to beat) the s**t outta' not a few people, but who we see crying five times! Even the way the SS begins with Ennis years later still dreaming about Jack and then ends with that "the pillow sometimes wet, sometimes the sheets" shows he's still crying, but also still having other, shall we say, intense emotions for Jack. Complicated. Very.

jackster

[tpe]

Perhaps it is also a survival instinct, protection of  one's personal deep seeded pride in his case. I like the way you put it. A protest against helplessness. Beautifully put. I think this was built into Ennis as a natrual instinct as in all of us , but reinforced in Ennis through his childhood traumas. His kick butt and ask questions later is evidence of this i feel. It's like *don't f-ck with me ,and definitly don't mess with Jack* or you'll be dealt with in a violent manner. The part of him that  can't deny ( though he tries)  his deep love for Jack is the  same part that is aggressively protective of he and Jack's love.Anyone who threatens this becomes a victim  sometimes even indirectly as in the case with the unsuspecting guy in the truck after his Thanksgiving day fight with Alma.

It is also most certainly a matter of pride.  I think Ennis, for all his internal anger, had a measure of self respect that sprung out of a simple life of hardship and self-determination.  He had learned to fight his own battles when he had lost his parents. 

[tpe]

I find these posts so interesting.   Ennis is a real contradiction.   He's big, tough, a brawler with no fear.   Kicking butt taking names in a way.   Then this man almost cowers with fear of being found out.   I don't get it.

It doesn't make sense.  Why didn't he take this aggressive nature in living with Jack, loving him, demolishing anyone who get in the way.  True, he was very possessive and protective of Jack when he's with him, Ennis doesn't share, not even having breakfast with Alma, when they came back from the motel.   But he'd stop at the idea of living with him. 

He'd puts his neck out but so far.  Not far enough to live with Jack, to love him openly.  When pushed by Jack to live together Ennis tells the story of Earl and Rich as a reason not to be open.   

Ennis would threaten Alma, threaten Jack, Kick two big bikers butts,  an unsuspecting soul who almost hit him with a truck.   Then in turn, would look suspiciously at a passing car,  think people know about them, meets Jack out in the middle of no where.   Ennis is a deeply complicated person or really crazy.

Poor Jack, he stayed with him for twenty years, if that's not  love, what is it?   

THis is a good question.  It is a bit hard to answer directly, I guess.  But your observation is indeed intriguing: why didn't all this pent-up aggressiveness not manifest itself in Ennis's relationship with Jack.  I guess a partial answer is that half of him hated himself for loving another man, and that in this instance, it was a struggle within himself.  He was used up by his own inner conflicts, and he therefore could not act more aggressively in pursuing a love that a part of him could not live without, and another part could not accept.

[tpe]

Yeah, manhattangirl, this is exactly why I find Ennis so compelling and to me the more interesting character. No I don't think he's crazy. But I'm left asking WHY? so many times with ol' E. And the greatness of Annie's writing is such that Ennis's story doesn't end (like Jack's), so we're all left with an incomplete story that makes it all the more tantilizing. Like you say here's a guy beatin' (or wanting to beat) the s**t outta' not a few people, but who we see crying five times! Even the way the SS begins with Ennis years later still dreaming about Jack and then ends with that "the pillow sometimes wet, sometimes the sheets" shows he's still crying, but also still having other, shall we say, intense emotions for Jack. Complicated. Very.

jackster

Yes, by his very weakness and self-contradiction, he becomes more compelling.  It is his inner conflict that drives the story to its tragic end.  Ennis is a great anti-hero, and like all great anti-heroes, he gains our sympathy and compassion by his very weaknesses and conflicts.  His bursts of anger (some of them like in the 4th of July scene) can sometimes be heroic in color, but in the end, it is not this that defines him.

[aintfoolin]

in the 4th of July fight Alma is seen almost cowering and begging Ennis to "let's just move somewhere else" awy from the bikers who were saying some pretty mean stuff. If Jack was there with him, things would have turned out alot differently in terms of that fight. Jack certainly would have defended  Ennis and / or helped him kick some butt. Ennis held his own though. Again, his manhood is questioned and tested and he's fighting.
 It's too bad he could'nt be there for Jack like this in his time of need. Just a wish.

[lamusica]

It struck me full force when I watched the movie the other night ( for the umpteenth time!) how violent Ennis really was -- how he lived with his temper just on the edge.  He really needed some anger management therapy if anyone ever did.  I know we've discussed his anger in a lot of the threads, but there's always room for more speculation about it.
For a long time, I couldn't understand Ennis punching Jack, but I now take it that Ennis was super pissed when he came down from the snowy mountain and saw Jack dissembling the tent.  When Jack said Aguirre told them to bring the sheep down, Ennis got mad.  He never lightened up, in my opinion.  When Jack started playing with him with the lasso, Ennis was still PO'd -- not at Jack, but at Aguirre - at losing a month's pay - at having to come down from this idyllic place to face reality once again - and, of course, to be leaving Jack.  None of these situation sat well with Ennis.  So, when Jack started getting too close, too physical, Ennis just blew.  Lashing out physically was the only way Ennis really knew of letting off steam.  The part of a mature individual that allows them to discipline themselves to hide or dissolve their anger never developed in Ennis.  He had no alternative but to lash out.  I always have to remember that he really was not raised by anyone.  He raised himself from the time his folks died.  His sister and brother fed him and housed him, but didn't teach him the lessons he needed to learn about self-control.  So, when he got upset, it came out in unmitigated physical punishment of whomever was near him.  When he stormed out of Alma's house after  Thanksgiving dinner, he was so angry at her, managed to keep himself from hitting Alma, but had to hit someone.  The pickup truck driver was handy, so he got Ennis's ire.  (Unfortunately for Ennis, he had met his match with that guy and got beaten up.)

[welshwitch]

He's also generally inarticulate, and inarticulate people can't let their feelings off in words, so they resort to violence instead. He did the sme with the bikers on July 4th - no real attempt at discussion - what he said was concfrontational and immediately follwed by threats and violence, which clearly frightened Alma. I thin she's seen him like that before - she's very anxious to move away, as if she's afraid of what he might do otherwise.

[tpe]

in the 4th of July fight Alma is seen almost cowering and begging Ennis to "let's just move somewhere else" awy from the bikers who were saying some pretty mean stuff. If Jack was there with him, things would have turned out alot differently in terms of that fight. Jack certainly would have defended  Ennis and / or helped him kick some butt. Ennis held his own though. Again, his manhood is questioned and tested and he's fighting.
 It's too bad he could'nt be there for Jack like this in his time of need. Just a wish.

The screenplay also indicates that this is the first time Alma sees a totally different side of Ennis -- his pent-up rage.  I think Alma also came to live in fear of these rages.

[tpe]

It struck me full force when I watched the movie the other night ( for the umpteenth time!) how violent Ennis really was -- how he lived with his temper just on the edge.  He really needed some anger management therapy if anyone ever did.  I know we've discussed his anger in a lot of the threads, but there's always room for more speculation about it.
For a long time, I couldn't understand Ennis punching Jack, but I now take it that Ennis was super pissed when he came down from the snowy mountain and saw Jack dissembling the tent.  When Jack said Aguirre told them to bring the sheep down, Ennis got mad.  He never lightened up, in my opinion.  When Jack started playing with him with the lasso, Ennis was still PO'd -- not at Jack, but at Aguirre - at losing a month's pay - at having to come down from this idyllic place to face reality once again - and, of course, to be leaving Jack.  None of these situation sat well with Ennis.  So, when Jack started getting too close, too physical, Ennis just blew.  Lashing out physically was the only way Ennis really knew of letting off steam.  The part of a mature individual that allows them to discipline themselves to hide or dissolve their anger never developed in Ennis.  He had no alternative but to lash out.  I always have to remember that he really was not raised by anyone.  He raised himself from the time his folks died.  His sister and brother fed him and housed him, but didn't teach him the lessons he needed to learn about self-control.  So, when he got upset, it came out in unmitigated physical punishment of whomever was near him.  When he stormed out of Alma's house after  Thanksgiving dinner, he was so angry at her, managed to keep himself from hitting Alma, but had to hit someone.  The pickup truck driver was handy, so he got Ennis's ire.  (Unfortunately for Ennis, he had met his match with that guy and got beaten up.)

I think Jack understood Ennis's rages, and he didn't seem to fear it. 

Ennis seemed to have been guilt-ridden with that punch he administered to Jack.  I guess Jack was different, or perhaps Ennis was quick to anger but invariably regretted his actions.

[ksxks]

That's how I see it - he turns violent when his masculinity is threatened, because he is afraid of that side of himself that has fallen in love with another man.   

I got behind on this wonderful topic and these threads.  This is another good one.  And this point of why Ennis lashes out makes so much sense.  Both that his control breaks like a child, and that he goes ballistic when his masculinity is threatened.  Such fear of the truth inside him.

kathy

[ksxks]

Great thread, thanks aintfoolin:

IMO:

When he struck Jack, that was understandable, not saying it was right but understandable. He was frustrated and angered by the thought of leaving Jack.   When they were wrestling  it was playful at first, but turned into something else, Ennis wanted to hurt Jack, not out of anger, but out of that sexual need, frustraton, love, and knowing he will never see him or have him again. All these feelings must have arose in him and  was just too much for him consciously to accept.     When Jack's knee hit his nose and the blood flowed Jack took the sleeve of his shirt, wiped it offered words of comfort to his lover.  Ennis struck back in the only way he was taught, and trained to by giving Jack the pain he felt inside, but couldn't express verbally.

He didn't know why he did it, he could have felt threaten at that moment.   But it bothered him years after that.     

Interesting, this -- Ennis gave Jack pain, gave Jack the pain he himself felt, when he really wanted to give him the love he felt.

kathy