Topic: What Would Ennis Do With Jack's Ashes?

[jackster]

I agree.  The future is open to possibilities as far as the fate of Jack's ashes is concerned. 

After all, the Mountain is a metaphor for their love.

You bet. "That's all we got, f**kin' all"

jackster

[aintfoolin]

And I have no doubt she would give them to Ennis to fulfill her son's wishes. She had apparently respected his wishes concerning the shirts. Why not give them to the man  whom Jack obviously loved so dearly and she could clearly see loved her son too and came willingly to take the ashes back to Jack's special place where he  found his greatest happiness and felt most alive?

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

And I have no doubt she would give them to Ennis to fulfill her son's wishes. She had apparently respected his wishes concerning the shirts. Why not give them to the man  whom Jack obviously loved so dearly and she could clearly see loved her son too and came willingly to take the ashes back to Jack's special place where he  found his greatest happiness and felt most alive?

Well put aintfoolin.  Despite Jack's references to his mother being a Pentecost and knowing some of the related lifestyle beliefs, I have to believe she would have honored those wishes.  Mothers are very in tune to someone outside of the family who truly loves one of their children.

[welshwitch]

I have a sort of vision of Jack's mother substituting some normal ashes for his in the urn ( or whatever) his father intends to put in the family plot. I like to think of her handing Jack's ashes to Ennis when he comes back and Mr T is out of the way - and I suppose I see her putting them, so as not to draw attention to them, into a paper grocery sack, just like the one Ennis was carrying when he first set eyes on Jack.

[tpe]

Nonetheless, I can't help thinking that there is a deep sense of fatalism in Jack's mom -- a sense of resignation to how things are.  Might this make her leave things as they are?  I suspect that she understood that, no matter where Jack's ashes lay, his heart and his memory lay with those who loved him deeply.

[jackster]

Nonetheless, I can't help thinking that there is a deep sense of fatalism in Jack's mom -- a sense of resignation to how things are. 

This is a real interesting thought tpe. I hadn't thought of her like that. I guess there's two ways (at least) to look at her situation - One where she figured there was nothing she could do about it (fatalistic), or another of "Damnit, I'm gonna stick it out with this bastard if it kills me, no matter what". Maybe they're both the same?

Curious that maybe she had the same fatalistic trait that Ennis had, (If you can't fix it, . . . . ) and maybe this is part of what drew Jack to Ennis, Jack saw this trait in Ennis which reminded him of his mother. And Jack, for himself, saw what it did to her and wanted to be entirely different in his own personality. Uh oh, I guess we better call Dr. Freud in here . . .
 

jackster

[tpe]

This is a real interesting thought tpe. I hadn't thought of her like that. I guess there's two ways (at least) to look at her situation - One where she figured there was nothing she could do about it (fatalistic), or another of "Damnit, I'm gonna stick it out with this bastard if it kills me, no matter what". Maybe they're both the same?

Curious that maybe she had the same fatalistic trait that Ennis had, (If you can't fix it, . . . . ) and maybe this is part of what drew Jack to Ennis, Jack saw this trait in Ennis which reminded him of his mother. And Jack, for himself, saw what it did to her and wanted to be entirely different in his own personality. Uh oh, I guess we better call Dr. Freud in here . . .
 

jackster

To be sure, there is a streak of fatalism in Ennis also.  Yes, could that have been a means by which Ennis and jack's mom understood each other.  Ennis, like jack's mom, never questioned John Twist's authority in the determination of the fate of Jack's ashes.  "Yes sir." was all he could say, even though his heart was breaking.  Like Jack's mom, Ennis was probably used to being bypassed...

[chameau]

I agree.  The future is open to possibilities as far as the fate of Jack's ashes is concerned. 

Regardless, Jack's ashes symbolically resides in Ennis's heart, no?  After all, the Mountain is a metaphor for their love.

 :\'(  Very well said.  I just read the entire thread... IMO, if the ashes have been given to Ennis he would I have scattered them on Brokeback and (don't ask me why) in the creek where we saw Ennis washing the dishes and Jack washing the clothes.

[tpe]

:\'(  Very well said.  I just read the entire thread... IMO, if the ashes have been given to Ennis he would I have scattered them on Brokeback and (don't ask me why) in the creek where we saw Ennis washing the dishes and Jack washing the clothes.

This is the same as the campsite where the FNIT and SNIT happened, no?  In any case, I do think that scattering Jack's ashes in the water of that stream is also aptly symbolic.  It would carry Jack's ashes to rest over the entire mmountain, starting from the place where, in many ways, it all began.

[welshwitch]

Life began in water - so maybe it's appropriate for Jack's ashes to end there. In a way the ashes could combine the four elements - they are the result of burning, some could fall to earth, some be blown away in the air and some carried off by water - and Jack would become, as we all eventually do, part of the Earth and one day part of the universe.

[jackster]

Some of you may not go for this, but it has occured to me that when Ennis is a doing a chore (what he's best at right?) anyway, two times I can think of, when he's completing a chore for someone he uses the short vernacular phrase "There ya' go", once while serving up dinner for Jack in the Brokeback camp and then again maybe ten years later to Alma when he brings the Thanksgiving dishes into the kitchen. I could sort of see him with Jack's ashes up on Brokeback saying "There ya' go" to Jack as he scattered them on the mountain. What do you think? What WOULD he say? I swear.

jackster

[tpe]

Life began in water - so maybe it's appropriate for Jack's ashes to end there. In a way the ashes could combine the four elements - they are the result of burning, some could fall to earth, some be blown away in the air and some carried off by water - and Jack would become, as we all eventually do, part of the Earth and one day part of the universe.

Fire, water, earth.  Ashes, stream, Mountain.

[tpe]

Some of you may not go for this, but it has occured to me that when Ennis is a doing a chore (what he's best at right?) anyway, two times I can think of, when he's completing a chore for someone he uses the short vernacular phrase "There ya' go", once while serving up dinner for Jack in the Brokeback camp and then again maybe ten years later to Alma when brings the Thanksgiving dishes into the kitchen. I could sort of see him with Jack's ashes up on Brokeback saying "There ya' go" to Jack as he scattered them on the mountain. What do you think? What WOULD he say? I swear.

jackster

Interesting, jackster!

I would rather think he would be pretty much silent -- choked with tears -- the same way he was when he found the shirts...

[aintfoolin]

I can picture Ennis sitting on a log holding the urn saying: Jack, jack I'm sorry for not realizing how much we meant to each other.,Sorry I was not able to give you what you needed, but now since I found our shirts that you kept all this time in your closet...Yes I found them . Your mom led me to them and gave them to me . I will keep them close to me  as long as I live cause they are all I have left,they are you and me together forever...this is how I see them and  I thank you for that lil darlin..... Damn Jack .If I just had the chance ta see ya one last time...I swear I'd never let you go. I know I never told ya this Jack but I love ya, I've always loved ya and I feel so bad about that. Finally: Please forgive me Jack for not bein there for ya when you needed me most of all. I have your ashes here with me and I'm gonna spread em  up here on Borkeback like ya wanted.I hope ya like where I'm gonna spread em. It's the spot where we gave ourselves to each other,and you sang Waterwalkin Jesus and stuff. I will visit you often in my heart and in my soul (takes a drink of their fav whiskey)  Here's to you lil darlin . I love ya Jack F-ckin Twist. (Spreads ashes)

[jackster]

Wow, you two - (aintfoolin' & tpe) - one of you thinks he'll be pretty much silent another thinks he'll give a 200+ word soliloquy. This forum's got range! To be honest I'd have to go with the silent version, I can't see Ennis coming up with a string a' 20 words let alone 200. To paraphrase Jack: "Friend, that's more words than you spoke in the past three years" That's not to say he wouldn't be thinkin' it (pretty much as you laid out aintfoolin'), I think he would, and possibly more. But I don't think he could actually say them, I think he'd get too choked up being as emotional as he is.

jackster

[tpe]

OT: it is a good thing that we all don't think alike! 

A silent Ennis is golden.

[chameau]

Life began in water - so maybe it's appropriate for Jack's ashes to end there. In a way the ashes could combine the four elements - they are the result of burning, some could fall to earth, some be blown away in the air and some carried off by water - and Jack would become, as we all eventually do, part of the Earth and one day part of the universe.

 :\'( :\'( :\'(

This thread is no good to cure PBS,  it's beautifuly said WW.

[JT]

I also see a silent Ennis.  Crying as he spread the ashes, overwhelmed by his emotions.  But I also see him with a sence of peace afterward.

[tpe]

I also see a silent Ennis.  Crying as he spread the ashes, overwhelmed by his emotions.  But I also see him with a sence of peace afterward.

In some sense, crying is a form of "speaking", no?  It is a way of acknowledging to oneself that one is broken, and that don't fear to show it.

[JT]

In some sense, crying is a form of "speaking", no?  It is a way of acknowledging to oneself that one is broken, and that don't fear to show it.

I see crying as a form of "communicating" rather than "speaking".  Ennis definately cried a lot--more so than Jack.  That obviously showed that he's a broken man, but is he that fearless about showing it? 

[tpe]

I see crying as a form of "communicating" rather than "speaking".  Ennis definately cried a lot--more so than Jack.  That obviously showed that he's a broken man, but is he that fearless about showing it? 

Yes, this is what I meant, as speaking to me is a form of communication.

No.  I don't think Ennis was fearless of showing it.  He wanted to appear strong and plaid, even though that is certainly not the case inside.  Which is why I think he would have been very restrained if he would have been able to dispose of Jack's ashes.  Even to himself, he was afraid to showing how he felt...

[aintfoolin]

The reason I think he would be more verbal is because of the way he spoke to the shirts. They are symbolic of Jack's words so maybe the ashes are symbolic of the very essence of Jack. I think the finality of the whole scenario would cause him to express the way he felt, isolated and alone with Jack's ashes yeah, I think he'd cry but I also think it would be a time when Ennis truly breaks down and tells *Jack* how he really feels about him. Where he spreads the ashes will become *sacred* ground  to him, a final resting place for the love of his life . I think he'd  cry in communicating his greif, alot but speak endearment at this very private  little *funeral * /*ceremony*for him and  Jack.   My  humble opinion.

[tpe]

I see crying as a form of "communicating" rather than "speaking".  Ennis definately cried a lot--more so than Jack.  That obviously showed that he's a broken man, but is he that fearless about showing it? 

I think lthat, ike his violent reactions, Ennis crying reveals most of all a sense of helplessness.  It is the same with a child who cries, no?  I think all of us can relate to this...

But if he did get to scatter Jack's ashes, I believe that he would cry not because of any sense of helplessness.  I think he would cry at that moment because he knows Jack was coming home.

[tpe]

The reason I think he would be more verbal is because of the way he spoke to the shirts. They are symbolic of Jack's words so maybe the ashes are symbolic of the very essence of Jack. I think the finality of the whole scenario would cause him to express the way he felt, isolated and alone with Jack's ashes yeah, I think he'd cry but I also think it would be a time when Ennis truly breaks down and tells *Jack* how he really feels about him. Where he spreads the ashes will become *sacred* ground  to him, a final resting place for the love of his life . I think he'd  cry in communicating his greif, alot but speak endearment at this very private  little *funeral * /*ceremony*for him and  Jack.   My  humble opinion.

It would be most beautiful if he would say those simple words that mattered the most: "I love you."

[aintfoolin]

I have no doubt he would say them before he left the mountain, but knowing Ennis he'd say them softly as if someone might hear and through tears of greif.  But that's Ennis I suppose. He did love him though.

[manhattangirl]

I think he would finally say that one word that he never told Jack while he was living.   He would actually say the word "Love".    He knew of the word, he knew what he meant.  He ask Alma, Jr. when she told him of her marriage, " Does he loves you?"  he knew the importance of this little word.

Would he finally say, "I love you, Jack" as Jack's ashes was let go over Brokeback?

[tpe]

The fact that he finally did ask that question of Alma Jr. does seem to indicate that he had finally understood full well the significance of the word in the light of his relationship with Jack.  I remember the thread where members debate whether Ennis whispered "I love you" when he found the shirts.  If this is true, then it is easy to imagine Ennis saying the same thing if he was able to scatter Jack's ashes up on the Mountain...

And as aintfoolin had said, he would have probably said this softly -- almost to himself: as a self-affirmation as much as an open declaration.

[edgar]

Wow. This thread is a killer.

By all means Ennis would follow Jack's wishes... That first-year campsite would be most fitting. Some of the ashes at the old tent site, some at the old campfire site (Ennis looks around and finds an old, old whiskey bottle), some in the stream....

I wonder if he would keep a tiny bit of the ashes, though... maybe put them in the shirt pocket...

My mum has given instructions for her ashes, when the time comes, to be scattered over a lake that is special to her. But I wonder if we will keep some in an urn to be passed around among us siblings...

And speaking of ashes going different places, as we know half of Jack's ashes were in Texas, half in LF. Some people have an idea that Mrs. Twist put the ashes in the paper sack with the shirts. I don't see her putting all of them in there, but maybe a small amount? In an old whiskey bottle or something....

[tpe]

Wow. This thread is a killer.

By all means Ennis would follow Jack's wishes... That first-year campsite would be most fitting. Some of the ashes at the old tent site, some at the old campfire site (Ennis looks around and finds an old, old whiskey bottle), some in the stream....

I wonder if he would keep a tiny bit of the ashes, though... maybe put them in the shirt pocket...

My mum has given instructions for her ashes, when the time comes, to be scattered over a lake that is special to her. But I wonder if we will keep some in an urn to be passed around among us siblings...

And speaking of ashes going different places, as we know half of Jack's ashes were in Texas, half in LF. Some people have an idea that Mrs. Twist put the ashes in the paper sack with the shirts. I don't see her putting all of them in there, but maybe a small amount? In an old whiskey bottle or something....

Indeed, a killer thread.

I wonder if Ennis would even consider breathing Jack's ashes.

Whne my father was cremated, I remember distinctly watching as they opened the canister where they ground the remains of his calcified bones.  When they opened the canister, a cloud of ash puffed out, and, being near, I could not help but breath some of it in...

Call this morbid: for me, it was intensely moving.

[JT]

I think lthat, ike his violent reactions, Ennis crying reveals most of all a sense of helplessness.  It is the same with a child who cries, no?  I think all of us can relate to this...

But if he did get to scatter Jack's ashes, I believe that he would cry not because of any sense of helplessness.  I think he would cry at that moment because he knows Jack was coming home.

I absolutely agree!  It would be a different kind of crying.  A sence of peace and accomplishment of duty.  It would probably be the only cry that is different from all the other cries from him.