Topic: Hidden symbol in opening scene?

[tpe]

This may be a product of an over-heated imagination, but something has be doing the rounds with some of my friends who have seen the movie.

I am sot so sure if they got this from somewhere else, or whether this was of their own imaginings.  It seems that they got this from somewhere else.

They point out that in the openning shot of the film, you see a truck at dawn along a road with a string of telephone/electric poles.  In the foreground of this shot (either the left or right corner, not sure), you see 3 telephone/electric poles that are relatively stationary, arranged in a way that calls to mind a crucifixion scene.

I have been told that two of them refer to Ennis and Jack, and the third one probably refers to Matthew Shepard!

Please don't think I'm crazy to bring this up.  I was just curious if this strange symbolic interpretation of the opening scene is more widely known than I thought.

I've seen the film 4 times now, and I really did not see this.  I am personally not sure what to make of it, except to say that it is strange.

 

[stationbbm]

That's a stretch...cannot begin to think that anyone wanted to capture that as a "hidden symbol"...just seems to be a fairly rural scene with truck carrying Ennis to be dropped off...Nothing more...

stationbbm

[tpe]

That's a stretch...cannot begin to think that anyone wanted to capture that as a "hidden symbol"...just seems to be a fairly rural scene with truck carrying Ennis to be dropped off...Nothing more...

stationbbm

I do tend to agree with you.  I did find this viewpoint most curious, and an unnecessary symbolism.  I wonder how such an interpretation ever came up.  In any case, it does not appear to be widely disseminated (mercifully, in my opinion.)

The story itself is rich enough without this.

[ranchgal]

From all the interviews and articles I have read and collected, NO one involved with this project is into hidden symbolisms---they all look at the story to stand by itself, and all the rest of the hypothetical stuff is just crap.    People tend to delve more deeply and transfer stuff from themselves into the movie, than what any of the people involved ever thought of,  and not just this one either---but very little of it has basis in anything real from the film.
In the rural US, telephone poles are just telephone poles--nothing more and nothing less.  We have them all over the place out here, and some even are tipped over, as well as some standing, wonder what he would read into the road going to our ranches? 
      Since this story was first published in 1997- well  before the MS tragedy ever happened.   One has nothing to do with the other.  And has nothing to do with the original story/inspiration for this.

[Chase]

Saw the movie again last night. There are 4 poles not three

[tpe]

Saw the movie again last night. There are 4 poles not three

Thanks for checking this.  I wanted to look into this myself the next time I see it, but your observation of 4 poles (not three) points to this being a product of over-heated imaginations.

[stationbbm]

TPE:

Just people tryin' to make stuff up 'bout our movie--ain't no justice in it.  Let telephone poles be what they may.

stationbbm

[brokebackmountain]

The story itself is rich enough without this.

I completely agree. The openning scene may be without any hidden symbol.

(Slightly OT) However, there may be other symbols in the movie worth discussion. For example, toward the end Ennis put "17" on the mailbox. Could it mean something or it is just a random number. Also, why is he putting the number on the mailbox?

Don't mean to hijack this topic.

[tpe]

I completely agree. The openning scene may be without any hidden symbol.

(Slightly OT) However, there may be other symbols in the movie worth discussion. For example, toward the end Ennis put "17" on the mailbox. Could it mean something or it is just a random number. Also, why is he putting the number on the mailbox?

Don't mean to hijack this topic.

Hi brokebackmountain.  I think there is no particular significance with the 17 mailbox address.  Although I agree that the story and the film have quite a number of valid symbolism.

Perhaps the most fascinating symbols are the story's dualism between the plain and the mountain (i.e., Brokeback). 

The mountain represents a kind of Eden for the lovers, invariably lost, but never completely forgotten. 

But the plain is always described in a sad and even sinister cast.

For example, when Ennis leaves Jack's parents, the original story describes Ennis looking at the cemetery where Jack's ashes are to be interred, and the story goes on to say that Ennis cannot bear seeing Jack buried there, in the midst of the 'grieving plain'.

Also, in the final shot, the screenplay describes it as 'the great bleakness of the vast northern plains'. 

The plain is used as an antithesis to Brokeback mountain.  The plain symbolizes cruel 'reality', the 'reality' of pretense, the masks they have to wear if only to hide their true feelings for each other.

All this only serve to highlight the beauty and significance of the mountain in Ennis' and Jack's lives.

[ranchgal]

There are 17 letters in "Brokeback Mountain"

and that is the only real significance anyone can come up, although there are lots of people's opinions on it--but the characters in the movie are too plain to imagine some significance that means too much.   It just wouldn't have occured to them.   And from everything I have read, the crew really wasn't into symbolism/mystisisms either.  But everyone has their own "take" on stuff like that. so have at it.

And rural mail carries/postal regulations have to have every box on the route marked some way--in the old days it was the number of the stops on the route.
I was Route 2 Box 56---That would make Ennis the 17th stop on the route that the carrier has on his road.
BUt now in the days of technology--it is your 911 address that has to be printed on each mailbox.
But every box has to marked as to mail that should go in it.

[Canata]

Ok...Like the rest I keep looking for meaning in the movie.
I am at the point where I think I'm being silly (just amusing myself). lHere is my latest silly thought that I had last night as I was replaying the movie in my head.
On one of the scenes it was obvious we were at the Farm Equipment Shop...but the was an intentional close up shot of the sign saying "Newsome Equipment". Lureen's last name was Newsome...Do you think she NewSome-thing about Jack's death???

Hope this gives you a chuckle.

[waterwalkingjesus]

I believe there is a lot of religious imagery in the film.

[borger1582]

There's a few great threads over at the IMDB discussion broad, especially those started and containing comments from CaseyCorneilus that seem to demonstrate many levels of symbolism in the film.

I was taken by a number of them.  One that really caught my attention was contrasting the opening scene to the scene of Ennis driving away from lightning flat.

In the opening, he is riding in a truck, before dawn, moving from right to left across the screen, holding his belongings in a sack, right before his first encounter with Jack.

After the meeting with Jack's parents, he is travelling in his truck, just at dusk, moving from left to right across the screen, holding the shirts (now presumably his most prized possessions) in a sack, after his last leavetaking of Jack (visit to the parents, the homestead, the room still set up from boyhood).  Closing out his interactions with Jack physically.

Another interesting one is the tracing of color in the film, Jack being identified with the color blue (which Ennis will wear on occasions of happiness) and Ennis being identified with the color tan.  In the very last shot of the film, some of these symbol-watching posters, much more observant that I am myself, see that the plain out the window, although representative still of a life without the eden-mountain, is alive with three colors: the blue of the sky, the tan of the standing grain, and between them the green of the further fields.  This green supposedly symbolizes Alma Jr. and the freshness of her love for Curt, arising at 19, the same age as Ennis' love for Jack bloomed.  Further, it shows that although Ennis will never be able to go back to his mountain eden and have that "high" of a love again, in resolution with Jack's spirit and as a result of his relationship with Jack, there can be beauty and love of a different kind in his life - possibly his love for Alma Jr., her children, and his other daughter.  Thus in Jack's death, with the affirmation "Jack, I swear . . . " is Ennis finally reconciled to his love, although with sadness and grief, and able to more fully express and participate in other love in his life.

As to the mailbox, I never saw anything convincing about the number 17 itself (I love ranchgal's analysis, tho!) but to many posters it seemed to indicate that Ennis was going to be more "permanent" and "accessible" in contrast to the fact he was not with Jack (Jack having to ask around to find Ennis after the divorce, Ennis always going to the post office to get/send mail).  Thus, more settled down.

I think I'm doing a not so good job of trying to summarize what other people have noted.  Hope it helps/enlightens/elicits comments and debate.

[*Froggy*]

Another interesting one is the tracing of color in the film, Jack being identified with the color blue

This was one of the most interesting threads i read on IMDb!
I really loved it..

[Toadily]

There's a few great threads over at the IMDB discussion broad, especially those started and containing comments from CaseyCorneilus that seem to demonstrate many levels of symbolism in the film.

I was taken by a number of them.  One that really caught my attention was contrasting the opening scene to the scene of Ennis driving away from lightning flat.

In the opening, he is riding in a truck, before dawn, moving from right to left across the screen, holding his belongings in a sack, right before his first encounter with Jack.

After the meeting with Jack's parents, he is travelling in his truck, just at dusk, moving from left to right across the screen, holding the shirts (now presumably his most prized possessions) in a sack, after his last leavetaking of Jack (visit to the parents, the homestead, the room still set up from boyhood).  Closing out his interactions with Jack physically.

Another interesting one is the tracing of color in the film, Jack being identified with the color blue (which Ennis will wear on occasions of happiness) and Ennis being identified with the color tan.  In the very last shot of the film, some of these symbol-watching posters, much more observant that I am myself, see that the plain out the window, although representative still of a life without the eden-mountain, is alive with three colors: the blue of the sky, the tan of the standing grain, and between them the green of the further fields.  This green supposedly symbolizes Alma Jr. and the freshness of her love for Curt, arising at 19, the same age as Ennis' love for Jack bloomed.  Further, it shows that although Ennis will never be able to go back to his mountain eden and have that "high" of a love again, in resolution with Jack's spirit and as a result of his relationship with Jack, there can be beauty and love of a different kind in his life - possibly his love for Alma Jr., her children, and his other daughter.  Thus in Jack's death, with the affirmation "Jack, I swear . . . " is Ennis finally reconciled to his love, although with sadness and grief, and able to more fully express and participate in other love in his life.

As to the mailbox, I never saw anything convincing about the number 17 itself (I love ranchgal's analysis, tho!) but to many posters it seemed to indicate that Ennis was going to be more "permanent" and "accessible" in contrast to the fact he was not with Jack (Jack having to ask around to find Ennis after the divorce, Ennis always going to the post office to get/send mail).  Thus, more settled down.

I think I'm doing a not so good job of trying to summarize what other people have noted.  Hope it helps/enlightens/elicits comments and debate.

Really interesting posts, I agree about the mailbox, I think it was just like "this is where I ended up..."  The colors thing is interesting.
I noted the ranch guy Jack has the fling with was light haired and tan hat right, so like tryihng to replace Ennis and that didnt' work out.  how many of us go out with someone who looks like someone we aren't over? 

[tpe]

There's a few great threads over at the IMDB discussion broad, especially those started and containing comments from CaseyCorneilus that seem to demonstrate many levels of symbolism in the film.

I was taken by a number of them.  One that really caught my attention was contrasting the opening scene to the scene of Ennis driving away from lightning flat.

In the opening, he is riding in a truck, before dawn, moving from right to left across the screen, holding his belongings in a sack, right before his first encounter with Jack.

After the meeting with Jack's parents, he is travelling in his truck, just at dusk, moving from left to right across the screen, holding the shirts (now presumably his most prized possessions) in a sack, after his last leavetaking of Jack (visit to the parents, the homestead, the room still set up from boyhood).  Closing out his interactions with Jack physically.

Another interesting one is the tracing of color in the film, Jack being identified with the color blue (which Ennis will wear on occasions of happiness) and Ennis being identified with the color tan.  In the very last shot of the film, some of these symbol-watching posters, much more observant that I am myself, see that the plain out the window, although representative still of a life without the eden-mountain, is alive with three colors: the blue of the sky, the tan of the standing grain, and between them the green of the further fields.  This green supposedly symbolizes Alma Jr. and the freshness of her love for Curt, arising at 19, the same age as Ennis' love for Jack bloomed.  Further, it shows that although Ennis will never be able to go back to his mountain eden and have that "high" of a love again, in resolution with Jack's spirit and as a result of his relationship with Jack, there can be beauty and love of a different kind in his life - possibly his love for Alma Jr., her children, and his other daughter.  Thus in Jack's death, with the affirmation "Jack, I swear . . . " is Ennis finally reconciled to his love, although with sadness and grief, and able to more fully express and participate in other love in his life.

As to the mailbox, I never saw anything convincing about the number 17 itself (I love ranchgal's analysis, tho!) but to many posters it seemed to indicate that Ennis was going to be more "permanent" and "accessible" in contrast to the fact he was not with Jack (Jack having to ask around to find Ennis after the divorce, Ennis always going to the post office to get/send mail).  Thus, more settled down.

I think I'm doing a not so good job of trying to summarize what other people have noted.  Hope it helps/enlightens/elicits comments and debate.

I completely agree with the idea of the truck scenes.  I did have this feeling of an attempt at opening and closing with these scenes.  According to the screenplay, the 19/20 year-old Ennis of the first scene carries his sole possessions: an extra shirt, and an extra pair of jeans.  We all know what is contained in the package the 39 year-old Ennis carries in the second truck scene.

I must admit that I am quite taken by your idea of the significance of the mailbox.  I had initially thought that with Ennis' last move, he is now less accessible and more remote from the town proper -- a symbol of his loneliness after Jack had died.  But your interpretation of the mailbox has altered my thinking a bit...

[brokebackmountain]

I believe there is a lot of religious imagery in the film.

I think so too. There are two scenes where I could relate.

The first one - after Jack drove away and Ennis just got on his knees and felt sick. You could only see a shadow of Ennis as if he was praying. The scene quickly connected to the marriage of Ennis and Alma.

Also, at Jack's parents' house, there is a cross right next to Jack's mother close-up.

[borger1582]

Folks, I WISH the mailbox thing was my idea . . . three or four others on the IMDB message threads.

Another something I picked up there was the line from the Lord's Prayer Ennis (and congregation) are saying when we cut away from the hunched over Ennis (prayerful Ennis, I love it) - the line is "forgive us our trespasses. . . " The trespass of lying with a man?  The trespass of "letting [Jack] out" of his sights?

Which takes me to another memory from posting earlier today.  I was complaining that some dialog that did not make it from story to screen was missed because there was not enough of Ennis' affection for Jack shown in the film after their reunion kiss at the bottom of the apartment stairs.  Then it hit me, and I posted Ennis' and Jack's exchange regarding Ennis "sending up a prayer of thanks" that ends with a joke about the harmonica.  But Film Ennis being Film Ennis, totally incapable of expressing almost any emotion, that was a really sweet, endearing way of telling Jack that Ennis was so happy to have found him again . . . and of course as a manly man he would hide the affection with a joke.

I am looking forward to owning the DVD.  There's a lot to this film that's gonna take some study.

[borger1582]

Just so you know, I posted something similar this AM in the "little darlin" thread herein.

[tpe]

brokebackmountain and borger1582,

I appreciate the comments and insights.

I did notice the cross in the scene with Jack's parents.

And the 'Prayer of thanks' was portrayed in a very artless and touching manner in the movie.

[garymcd]

Saw the movie again last night. There are 4 poles not three

Thanks for checking this.  I wanted to look into this myself the next time I see it, but your observation of 4 poles (not three) points to this being a product of over-heated imaginations.

4 poles = 4 lives
ang lee is a yin/yang symbolic artist
not much of a stretch for me

[coguaro]

maybe I can see a hidden symbol in the idea that the solitaire truck may rapresents the solitaire Ennis condition at the beginning of the film and the more universal meaning of the solitaire condition of humans in front of the majesty of awesome nature space on the background... that's only my idea.

coguaro

[Mars]

Beautiful one, Coguaro.

[coguaro]

thank you Mars!
What about the train running in front of Ennis stopped behind the Aguirre office?
I think that this could be the symbol of life which rapidly runs under the eyes of Ennis while he is incapable to pick it and the life escapes. In fact Ennis had a preconstituted life (he had to marry Alma, to stay at Riverton for ever...) which prevents to him to found what he really need... Jack will destroy all certitudes.... after Brokeback mountain all sheeps are mixed 

[Allan]

I'm not sure about symbols in the opening scene... but I think that there is an agenda, which I haven't seen anyone mention.

I think that the opening scene is staged as (that is, directed to resemble - as a sub-text) a truck stop pick-up.  First, we have Ennis leaning against the trailer looking variously like James Dean or Jon Voight in Midnight Cowboy.  Then, Jack pulls up, gets out of the truck and promptly kicks it (a very masculin gesture) then swings around throws himself against the truck... quite literally "presenting" himself.  I think that Jack cruises Ennis.  If Ennis were in on the "scene" and wanted to respond to the "presentation," his hand would drop down and he'd hook his thumb in his pocket, allowing his fingers (or a finger) to point to the object of interest.  If he was really serious, he might say something like, "Hey stranger, do you happen to have the time?"  And Jack might say, "You look like you got a heavy load on your mind today."  (Please excuse the crudities.  I grew up and out in the 60's and both of these phases, tacky as they are, were truly part of the vernanular.)

Obviously none of that latter stuff happens, but I think that Jack continues to cruise Ennis in that opening scene... While Ennis' interest in Jack seems to be more in sizing him up as cpmpetition for his job.

There's another thing... this is Jack's second summer on Brokeback, and all we know about that previous adventure is that some sheep were struck by lightning... I wonder if lightning struck anywhere else, and that's what has brought Jack back to Aquirre's trailer?  (I'm not suggesting for a minute that what might have happened in the summer of '62 could have, or would have, the importance or power of what happened the summer of '63.)  Allan   

[BBBOY]

I'm not sure about symbols in the opening scene... but I think that there is an agenda, which I haven't seen anyone mention.

I think that the opening scene is staged as (that is, directed to resemble - as a sub-text) a truck stop pick-up.  First, we have Ennis leaning against the trailer looking variously like James Dean or Jon Voight in Midnight Cowboy.  Then, Jack pulls up, gets out of the truck and promptly kicks it (a very masculin gesture) then swings around throws himself against the truck... quite literally "presenting" himself.  I think that Jack cruises Ennis.  If Ennis were in on the "scene" and wanted to respond to the "presentation," his hand would drop down and he'd hook his thumb in his pocket, allowing his fingers (or a finger) to point to the object of interest.  If he was really serious, he might say something like, "Hey stranger, do you happen to have the time?"  And Jack might say, "You look like you got a heavy load on your mind today."  (Please excuse the crudities.  I grew up and out in the 60's and both of these phases, tacky as they are, were truly part of the vernanular.)

Obviously none of that latter stuff happens, but I think that Jack continues to cruise Ennis in that opening scene... While Ennis' interest in Jack seems to be more in sizing him up as cpmpetition for his job.

There's another thing... this is Jack's second summer on Brokeback, and all we know about that previous adventure is that some sheep were struck by lightning... I wonder if lightning struck anywhere else, and that's what has brought Jack back to Aquirre's trailer?  (I'm not suggesting for a minute that what might have happened in the summer of '62 could have, or would have, the importance or power of what happened the summer of '63.)  Allan   

I have often wondered what happened to Jack the previous summer that would bring him back. He sure wasn't keen on Aguirre.

Hmmmmmmm if you can remember the signs of the 60's Allan sounds like you ought to join us boys over at the Silver Wolves some night.

[tpe]

I have often wondered what happened to Jack the previous summer that would bring him back. He sure wasn't keen on Aguirre.

Hmmmmmmm if you can remember the signs of the 60's Allan sounds like you ought to join us boys over at the Silver Wolves some night.

I have always assumed it was money and the chance to get away from his father.  But it is certainly possible that 'lightning' can strike the same place twice.  Jack was more experienced than Ennis.  Perhaps the previous summer had its share of experiences.