Author Topic: wrestling scenes  (Read 42972 times)

Offline cybernaut

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Re: wrestling scenes
« Reply #30 on: Feb 08, 2006, 07:55 PM »
Cowboy Cody: If you think what Aguirre did is bad, wait till you see what they do in China for Walmart.
I'm saying a prayer of thanks... that you didn't bring your harmonica!

Offline camom

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Re: wrestling scenes
« Reply #31 on: Feb 08, 2006, 08:09 PM »
IMHO, I just wanted to take those binoculars and twist them around his neck till his head popped like a tick. >:(

He is surely an a**h***, I agree with you on that.  Brilliant bit of acting on Keach's part.  He did a great job.  The casting director obviously spent a lot of time getting just the right people for those little parts.  Jack's parents are also just brilliant.

camom

Offline rane99

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Re: wrestling scenes
« Reply #32 on: Feb 08, 2006, 10:29 PM »
IMHO, I just wanted to take those binoculars and twist them around his neck till his head popped like a tick. >:(

LOLOLOL
Well, you better get your skinny ass over there and do it pronto! before I do!
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Offline Cowboy Cody

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Re: wrestling scenes
« Reply #33 on: Feb 08, 2006, 10:40 PM »
IMHO, I just wanted to take those binoculars and twist them around his neck till his head popped like a tick. >:(

LOLOLOL
Well, you better get your skinny ass over there and do it pronto! before I do!

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
You were goin' up there to go fishin'....NO SHIT! GIMME SEX!

Offline camom

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Re: wrestling scenes
« Reply #34 on: Feb 08, 2006, 11:49 PM »
IMHO, I just wanted to take those binoculars and twist them around his neck till his head popped like a tick. >:(

LOLOLOL
Well, you better get your skinny ass over there and do it pronto! before I do!

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You pair a deuces!  LMAO!!   ;D ;D ;D

camom

Offline Rønnaug

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Re: wrestling scenes
« Reply #35 on: Feb 09, 2006, 12:32 PM »
IMHO, I just wanted to take those binoculars and twist them around his neck till his head popped like a tick. >:(

He is surely an a**h***, I agree with you on that.  Brilliant bit of acting on Keach's part.  He did a great job.  The casting director obviously spent a lot of time getting just the right people for those little parts.  Jack's parents are also just brilliant.

camom

Keach?
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Offline camom

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Re: wrestling scenes
« Reply #36 on: Feb 09, 2006, 12:37 PM »
IMHO, I just wanted to take those binoculars and twist them around his neck till his head popped like a tick. >:(

He is surely an a**h***, I agree with you on that.  Brilliant bit of acting on Keach's part.  He did a great job.  The casting director obviously spent a lot of time getting just the right people for those little parts.  Jack's parents are also just brilliant.

camom

Keach?

The actor who played Aquirre.  James Keach.

camom

Offline Rønnaug

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Re: wrestling scenes
« Reply #37 on: Feb 09, 2006, 12:50 PM »
No  :) Randy Quaid
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Offline camom

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Re: wrestling scenes
« Reply #38 on: Feb 09, 2006, 02:34 PM »
You're right, what the hell was I thinking?  Keach, Quaid, sound the same, right?  Jeez.  How embarassing.

Can you tell I'm not getting enough sleep?

camom 

Offline rod1960

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Re: wrestling scenes
« Reply #39 on: Feb 09, 2006, 02:49 PM »
In the story, he actually watches them having sex.  Waits till they button their pants up before going to camp. I'm sure he didn't want them back.

Offline alicat

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Re: wrestling scenes
« Reply #40 on: Feb 09, 2006, 02:52 PM »
You're right, what the hell was I thinking?  Keach, Quaid, sound the same, right?  Jeez.  How embarassing.

Can you tell I'm not getting enough sleep?

camom 

lol Camom - yes, why aren't you sleeping? lol - are you thinking about the wrestling between Jack and Ennis?! 
Did your folks stop at Ennis?

Offline Cowboy Cody

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Re: wrestling scenes
« Reply #41 on: Feb 09, 2006, 02:55 PM »
You're right, what the hell was I thinking?  Keach, Quaid, sound the same, right?  Jeez.  How embarassing.

Can you tell I'm not getting enough sleep?

camom 

lol Camom - yes, why aren't you sleeping? lol - are you thinking about the wrestling between Jack and Ennis?! 


Don't know about camom but it sure as heck works for the Cowboy!
You were goin' up there to go fishin'....NO SHIT! GIMME SEX!

Offline kcristob

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Re: wrestling scenes
« Reply #42 on: Feb 09, 2006, 03:05 PM »

Quote

lol Camom - yes, why aren't you sleeping? lol - are you thinking about the wrestling between Jack and Ennis?! 

Quote

Don't know about camom but it sure as heck works for the Cowboy!
Quote

Speaking from experience........it works for straight chicks too!

Offline camom

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Re: wrestling scenes
« Reply #43 on: Feb 09, 2006, 10:35 PM »

Quote

lol Camom - yes, why aren't you sleeping? lol - are you thinking about the wrestling between Jack and Ennis?! 

Quote

Don't know about camom but it sure as heck works for the Cowboy!
Quote

Speaking from experience........it works for straight chicks too!

You know it!  And I'm not getting enough sleep because "there's never enough time, never enough."   ;D

camom

Offline Cowboy Cody

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Re: wrestling scenes
« Reply #44 on: Feb 09, 2006, 10:57 PM »

Quote

lol Camom - yes, why aren't you sleeping? lol - are you thinking about the wrestling between Jack and Ennis?! 

Quote

Don't know about camom but it sure as heck works for the Cowboy!
Quote

Speaking from experience........it works for straight chicks too!

You know it!  And I'm not getting enough sleep because "there's never enough time, never enough."   ;D

camom

<OT> but Camom, I'll bet you and your family one helluva good time!
You were goin' up there to go fishin'....NO SHIT! GIMME SEX!

Offline camom

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Re: wrestling scenes
« Reply #45 on: Feb 10, 2006, 02:26 AM »

Quote

lol Camom - yes, why aren't you sleeping? lol - are you thinking about the wrestling between Jack and Ennis?! 

Quote

Don't know about camom but it sure as heck works for the Cowboy!
Quote

Speaking from experience........it works for straight chicks too!

You know it!  And I'm not getting enough sleep because "there's never enough time, never enough."   ;D

camom

<OT> but Camom, I'll bet you and your family one helluva good time!

You bet!  Yee haw!

camom

Offline Rønnaug

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Re: wrestling scenes
« Reply #46 on: Feb 10, 2006, 02:49 AM »
In the story, he actually watches them having sex.  Waits till they button their pants up before going to camp. I'm sure he didn't want them back.

He was jealous  ;)
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Offline Cowboy Cody

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Re: wrestling scenes
« Reply #47 on: Feb 10, 2006, 10:14 AM »
In the story, he actually watches them having sex.  Waits till they button their pants up before going to camp. I'm sure he didn't want them back.

He was jealous  ;)

quite possible!
You were goin' up there to go fishin'....NO SHIT! GIMME SEX!

Offline camom

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Re: wrestling scenes
« Reply #48 on: Feb 11, 2006, 12:49 AM »
In the story, he actually watches them having sex.  Waits till they button their pants up before going to camp. I'm sure he didn't want them back.

He was jealous  ;)

quite possible!

Must have been...who in their right mind would have sex with Aguirre?  No nookie for that man, ever!    :P

camom

Offline bubbaluna

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Re: wrestling scenes..specifically the punch
« Reply #49 on: Feb 22, 2006, 07:52 AM »
No one seems to have specifically addressed the "punch" that Ennis delivers to Jack after he accidentally gets a bloody lip. I know the story alludes to the fact in this way;

Jack went on, “Yeah, that little punch a yours surprised me. I never figured you to throw a dirty punch.”
Ennis replies:
“I come up under my brother K.E., three years older’n me, slugged me silly ever day. Dad got tired a me come bawlin in the house and when I was about six he set me down and says, Ennis, you got a problem and you got a fix it or it’s goin a be with you until you’re ninety and K.E.’s ninety-three. Well, I says, he’s bigger’n me. Dad says, You got a take him unawares, don’t say nothin to him, make him feel some pain, get out fast and keep doin it until he takes the message. Nothin like hurtin somebody to make him hear good. So I did. I got him in the outhouse, jumped him on the stairs, come over to his pillow in the night while he was sleepin and pasted him damn good. Took about two days. Never had trouble with K.E. since. The lesson was, Don’t say nothin and get it over with quick.”


My question is....did Ennis really punch Jack because he was "sore" about getting the bloody lip? Or was it his way of getting out his anger about having to leave Jack? But what really broke my heart in the scene is seeing Jack trying so hard to comfort Ennis , trying to put his arm around him, getting knocked to the ground with a punch, lying there and having Ennis just look at him....we obviously don't see what happens after that until they are coming down the hill but it seems incredibly cruel even for Ennis...I think THIS is one of the saddest parts of the films.....what does everyone else think?
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Offline Rønnaug

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Re: wrestling scenes
« Reply #50 on: Feb 22, 2006, 08:00 AM »
I think Ennis is angry at Aguirre but can't punch him. And the only way he can let his feeling out is through violence, and then Jack accidentally knees him , so he does what Ennis does...he hits.
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Offline CherryCake

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Re: wrestling scenes
« Reply #51 on: Feb 22, 2006, 08:07 AM »
I think Ennis is angry at Aguirre but can't punch him. And the only way he can let his feeling out is through violence, and then Jack accidentally knees him , so he does what Ennis does...he hits.
I agree.. Ennis is very emotional state and they playful lasso'ing becomes hurtful.  For Ennis to bring it up 4 years laters tells me that it probably had been on his mind all that time... in between the time he was not 'wrangling it about a hunnered' times  :)
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Offline bram

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Re: wrestling scenes
« Reply #52 on: Feb 22, 2006, 08:18 AM »
I think it was probably that he was angry about having to leave Jack, and so he wanted to punch something, anything. Jack's face was the closest thing to his fist.
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Offline kcristob

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Re: wrestling scenes
« Reply #53 on: Feb 22, 2006, 11:46 AM »
Right.  Ennis can't let his emotions out in anything except the physical (love making, fighting).  But there is an edge to their wrestling scene with both men.  I mean the lasso, and Ennis tripping over it has kind of a passive aggressive edge to it I think.  No one likes falling.  So, I think even Jack's "wrestling" was expressing his frustration.  I don't think that he set out to hit Ennis in the nose, but right before it happened, he got pretty violent himself.  Maybe it was self defense.  But, I felt that he kind of didn't care what the outcome, he started fighting too.

Offline Rønnaug

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Re: wrestling scenes
« Reply #54 on: Feb 22, 2006, 12:03 PM »
Like I sayd over ehre, I think the script says Jack accidentally knees Ennis, and we never see it we just hear it
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Offline ragtimecowboy

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Re: wrestling scenes
« Reply #55 on: Feb 22, 2006, 04:52 PM »
There were several scenes in the movie where wrestling occured all stemming from different causes. The first was in the tent when Ennis and Jack  first made it. It came directly out of the fires of lust, Ennis took Jack's flower. The second, was when Jack gently but lovingly pinned Ennis to the floor of the tent, and kissed him tenderly. This was love in bloom. The third was the morning after when Ennis was full of joy and feeling frisky still. grabbed by jack, he teased him some, then tackled him for a kiss he definitely was after- and got! The fourth, when Jack lassoed him,telling him it was time to go. It was a violent wrestling match as both of them were getting cheated not only out of a months pay, but another month of , as they thought free wheelin' lovin. It came out of growing feeling of impending separation that neither one really wanted to happen. The fifth was Ennis wrestling with himself just after parting at the trailer, it arose out of the realization he just screwed, and let the love of his life drive off without him, possibly never seeing him again. The sixth came at the bottom of the steps, when Ennis and Jack nearly tore each others shirts off, coming right out of the realization that there love had not died. And the seventh, when Alma revealed she knew and called Jack "Jack Nasty". That came from Ennis's instincts for self preservation of his relationship with Jack.

Offline kcristob

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Re: wrestling scenes
« Reply #56 on: Feb 22, 2006, 04:58 PM »
I'll add one:  The final parting scene - when Ennis is brought to his knees and Jack tries to comfort him.  There is a definite tussel there. 

Offline dissident

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Re: wrestling scenes
« Reply #57 on: Feb 22, 2006, 08:55 PM »
This is OT, but still funny.

Aguirre accuses Jack and Ennis of "Stemming the Rose."

In the night scene later on, Ennis is drinking whisky, holding it suggestively in his crotch.

The whiskey is called "Old Rose."

Made me giggle a little.
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Offline Rod

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Re: wrestling scenes
« Reply #58 on: Feb 22, 2006, 09:16 PM »
Ennis feels desperately "out of control" in his life.   Thus, his need to dominate and control others.
It appears any intimacy invokes rage.   

I don't think wrestling meant ennis wanted to control....when Aquirre was watching playing and wrestling after sex, it was beautiful and fun and energetic....when Jack roped him when they were leaving it went from fun (with three brothers this always happened in my family) to serious to kill each other...remember Ennis hit Jack because Jack's knee accidentily hit Ennis' nose.  Many wrestling scenarios between two guys change from fun to serious.  I also think that the general depression of leaving Brokeback and each other made Ennis do the thing a lot of people do.  When you are bothered about leaving ya pick a fight and that helps cover up the pain ya feel with anger.

Offline Rod

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Re: wrestling scenes
« Reply #59 on: Feb 22, 2006, 09:18 PM »
Also during the wrestling scene, the scenery around Aguirre is the absolute ugliest of the film..dead tree, etc. I guess Ang really wants us to know Aguirre is a negative force.

To be honest, I'm not sure that Aguirre is really that negative of a character.  He never gives any sign that he thinks poorly of them because of what he saw, at least not that I can remember.  He even waits until they're done before he rides down (that's in the short story).  He must have had a gun at the time, yet he didn't shoot at them, didn't yell at them, didn't call them derogatory names.  The worst he ever said was, "You ranch stiffs ain't never no good."  When he tells Jack there's no work for him next summer, he makes it clear why, but again, nothing really derogatory, just plain talk--and really, he's their employer.  They were hired to do a job and they didn't do a very good job because they were busy, ah, doing other things.  Aguirre's mad about that, sure, but where is he showing homophobia?  For all we know, this is happening every dang summer, and he's getting tired of it!   ;D

I mean, seriously, someone tell me where Aguirre shows that he's angry over anything over than their neglect of the sheep.

camom

Well he did order Jack out of his trailer.....I have no work for YOU...implying to me not that Jack was lazy but he was gay and he didn't want him around.