Topic: What was it about Ennis?

[athena0204]

Ennis was a person who only one other person understood and really knew...his soulmate Jack. Jack loved Ennis purely, truely, and unconditonally, and Ennis knew this. The tragic thing is how Ennis just lived his life hanging on in quiet desperation because he felt like he was powerless to live the life he really wanted to have with Jack. In the end, he hates himself for depriving himself of happiness, and even more for depriving the one person he purely, truly loved of happiness, Jack. In the end he would give anything to go back to that last day on Brokeback Mountain in the summer of 1963, and fix his mistakes. He would give anything to go back and never say goodbye to Jack and walk away on that road, to make things right this time. He realized how much he'd hurt Jack...and he lived the rest of his life wishing he could have another chance. But Jack knew that Ennis truely, deeply loved him...and though it ended tragically, their love is so pure, deep, true, and strong, that it moves beyond this life and this world. My only consolation for such a tragedy is that years later, after Ennis died alone and miserable in old age, that he was reunited with Jack in the next life, in a much better place where he and Jack could be together forever, young, free, and happy.

[tpe]

Ennis was a person who only one other person understood and really knew...his soulmate Jack. Jack loved Ennis purely, truely, and unconditonally, and Ennis knew this. The tragic thing is how Ennis just lived his life hanging on in quiet desperation because he felt like he was powerless to live the life he really wanted to have with Jack. In the end, he hates himself for depriving himself of happiness, and even more for depriving the one person he purely, truly loved of happiness, Jack. In the end he would give anything to go back to that last day on Brokeback Mountain in the summer of 1963, and fix his mistakes. He would give anything to go back and never say goodbye to Jack and walk away on that road, to make things right this time. He realized how much he'd hurt Jack...and he lived the rest of his life wishing he could have another chance. But Jack knew that Ennis truely, deeply loved him...and though it ended tragically, their love is so pure, deep, true, and strong, that it moves beyond this life and this world. My only consolation for such a tragedy is that years later, after Ennis died alone and miserable in old age, that he was reunited with Jack in the next life, in a much better place where he and Jack could be together forever, young, free, and happy.

I love that phrase of Thoreau: a life of quiet desperation.  It is so very much the embodiment of Ennis in love.

[athena0204]

It is important to know that Jack didn't change Ennis. He changed Ennis' life. Jack didn't change anything about Ennis. He just brought out the real, true Ennis, a person who was capable of loving so purely and deeply with the entirety of his soul. A person who knew the meaning of true love, like Jack...but just had hidden himself behind a wall. Jack came and unlocked the gates to that beautiful heart and soul.

[tpe]

It is important to know that Jack didn't change Ennis. He changed Ennis' life. Jack didn't change anything about Ennis. He just brought out the real, true Ennis, a person who was capable of loving so purely and deeply with the entirety of his soul. A person who knew the meaning of true love, like Jack...but just had hidden himself behind a wall. Jack came and unlocked the gates to that beautiful heart and soul.

I think this is mostly true.  I wonder though whether something fundamentally changed in Ennis after Jack's death.  I go back and forth of this one...

[athena0204]

I think this is mostly true.  I wonder though whether something fundamentally changed in Ennis after Jack's death.  I go back and forth of this one...

I think after Jack's death, Ennis changed into a person who showed his feelings more. He didn't really change fundamentally, because those feelings and emotions had always been there, but he just kept himself behind his wall when he wasn't with Jack.

[Matt Nasty]

I think after Jack's death, Ennis changed into a person who showed his feelings more. He didn't really change fundamentally, because those feelings and emotions had always been there, but he just kept himself behind his wall when he wasn't with Jack.

yes i agree

[aintfoolin]

I think this is mostly true.  I wonder though whether something fundamentally changed in Ennis after Jack's death.  I go back and forth of this one...

I go back and forth on it too tpe, but Ennis did agree to ditch the round up and attend Jr's wedding. I feel the fact that she came to him and asked him personally went a long way in permitting a change of heart in Ennis. Also his nod in the affirmative that he was re-visit Mrs. Twist is another example. Speculation on my part, but I bet he would go back and visit her. She was a link to Jack's past and a link to Jack's presence for both of them. He could SO bring Jack alive again by discussing him with her if only in a spiritual sense.

[manhattangirl]

I go back and forth on that one too.  In the ss you get the feeling that Ennis would always be caught between what he knew consciously and what he believes consciously, (does this make sense?),  and we're left with question which one will win out in the end.   And this is something he'll be struggling with for the rest of his life, or put an end to it and deal with as he always deal with things he couldn't knock on its butt,  "If you can't fix, you have stand it". 

 

[tpe]

I go back and forth on it too tpe, but Ennis did agree to ditch the round up and attend Jr's wedding. I feel the fact that she came to him and asked him personally went a long way in permitting a change of heart in Ennis. Also his nod in the affirmative that he was re-visit Mrs. Twist is another example. Speculation on my part, but I bet he would go back and visit her. She was a link to Jack's past and a link to Jack's presence for both of them. He could SO bring Jack alive again by discussing him with her if only in a spiritual sense.

Yes, this was a very strong indication that something had indeed changed.  This ending is certainly more hopeful than the one in the ss, no?  What made Ennis in the movie very moving was this hint of movement.

[tpe]

I go back and forth on that one too.  In the ss you get the feeling that Ennis would always be caught between what he knew consciously and what he believes consciously, (does this make sense?),  and we're left with question which one will win out in the end.   And this is something he'll be struggling with for the rest of his life, or put an end to it and deal with as he always deal with things he couldn't knock on its butt,  "If you can't fix, you have stand it". 

This was what I was exactly alluding to in my previous post.  Thanks MG.  With Ennis, it is the sense of struggle that defines above all -- he is never entirely in inner equilibrium.

[myprivatejack]

Today I have wanted to resuscitate this old thread because maybe with time's perspective one is able to see things better.Although I only can but asking you why you really think that someone so complicated,closed in himself and few talkative as Ennis,could have three persons in love with him during years and,in Jack's case,all his life.And,of course,I'm not talking about a simple sexual attraction,because even someone like Cassie-used to be in touch with a lot of men of a very different personalities-felt for him surely much more than she had been able to feel for some other man in her life.
Maybe is the mysterious condition's charm? Feeling like discover what is hidding inside such a  difficult personality?.I must confess I love Ennis more than some time ago,but this attraction power of him is something curious IMO...

[vedrana]

I believe that besides his gorgeous looks, the thing that attracts the most is his taciturn nature. He looks like a shellfish with a hidden pearl inside. And that imagined pearl is so attractive for others, that it doesn't matter if it really exists or not. Looking for it is already the fulfillment of the needs for the ones who seek it. MO

And MPJ, I agree. Ennis becomes more and more attractive in time. 

[trekfan]

Ennis was like a tortoise in a shell and it took Jack to make him come out of it a bit and feel something as powerful as Love.  It is a shame they never could have that sweet life Jack wanted for them   

[tpe]

For all Ennis's faults, he was artless as far as Jack was concerned.  He may have bordered on devious with Alma or even Cassie, but in the end, his honesty and guileless personaility didn't make him good at hiding things.  A more devious person would have been able to live out the different contradictory lives without a moment's thought.

[jesseanne21]

For all Ennis's faults, he was artless as far as Jack was concerned.

I read somewhere that human beings do things for one of two reasons:  1) because it's pleasurable or 2) to avoid pain.  We do things because either THEY FEEL GOOD or TO AVOID PAIN.  For example, we eat whatever we like it because it feels good and we diet when we get too fat to avoid getting fatter or sick

We like/love (and want to be around) people who make us feel good and we dislike (and don't want to be around) people who make us feel bad.  We may not remember what someone says or does, the gifts they give us, but we always remember how they make us feel.   My mother died when I was quite young, but today, more than 30 years later, when I close my eyes, I can still feel her warmth and love and I feel safe and loved.

Whatever faults Ennis may have had, he made Jack, Alma and Cassie feel good.  Jack would drive 14 hours just to be with him.  Alma stayed with him even though she knew he was cheating on her until being with him became too painful. Cassie wanted to marry him until he left her.

[tpe]

Very good point,  jesseanne21.  Ennis had the qualities that made him so attractive, in spite of his shyness and (perhaps) unassuming personality.  It was both a blessing and a curse, I suppose.  He invariably hurt the people who loved him, even though he tried in his own way not to. 

 

[Matt Nasty]

I read somewhere that human beings do things for one of two reasons:  1) because it's pleasurable or 2) to avoid pain.  We do things because either THEY FEEL GOOD or TO AVOID PAIN.  For example, we eat whatever we like it because it feels good and we diet when we get too fat to avoid getting fatter or sick

We like/love (and want to be around) people who make us feel good and we dislike (and don't want to be around) people who make us feel bad.  We may not remember what someone says or does, the gifts they give us, but we always remember how they make us feel.   My mother died when I was quite young, but today, more than 30 years later, when I close my eyes, I can still feel her warmth and love and I feel safe and loved.

Whatever faults Ennis may have had, he made Jack, Alma and Cassie feel good.  Jack would drive 14 hours just to be with him.  Alma stayed with him even though she knew he was cheating on her until being with him became too painful. Cassie wanted to marry him until he left her.

hmm sorry if i veer off topic here ill try to tie it back into the subject matter where i can.
being a psychology student i pobably look at things like this in too much depth, in essence i think what you said here was very plausible indeed and i would agree with what you said in regards to alma, cassie, jack and ennis.
but if we are too look at the statement "human beings do things for one of two reasons:  1) because it's pleasurable or 2) to avoid pain.  We do things because either THEY FEEL GOOD or TO AVOID PAIN."   
it could be said that its a pretty reductionist out look on humans as a race. if it were true it would mean we were in essence all very selfish, and that everything we did was for our own pleasure or too avoid pain. i mean its kinda debatable if this is true or not becuse even if you go out of your way to do something for someone else to make them feel good, ultimatly it probably makes you feel good also for doing it for them...but i tend to think otherwise and i would argue that love is much more intense then jsut a pleasurable emotion i mean sometimes it hurts like hell, i think love is jsut something in its own class and wouldt quite fit with the basic assumption mentioned. i know that was kinda  so forgive me for that sometimes my psychological ramblings get the better of me.

[jackster]

For all Ennis's faults, he was artless as far as Jack was concerned.  He may have bordered on devious with Alma or even Cassie, but in the end, his honesty and guileless personaility didn't make him good at hiding things.  A more devious person would have been able to live out the different contradictory lives without a moment's thought.

thomas- A little OT here, but I gotta' ask - your usage here of "artless" - is it in part a reiteration of Annie's usage? . . "Later, that dozy embrace solidified in his memory as the single moment of artless, charmed happiness in their separate and difficult lives." If so, it's an interesting twist, this idea of Jack thinking of Ennis this way, when in Annie's usage she seems to pose Jack thinking of a singular event in their relationship and not of the individual. IMO it seems both are fitting.
 

[tpe]

Thanks so much Jackster!  I admit that when I wrote that last post, I wasn't fully conscious of the connection with AP's description of the DE.  But you are so right!  Perhaps it was in the back of my mind all along, without really realizing it.

OT: As some of you already know from the "Next Chapter" thread under "Member Connection", I will be making a major move in the coming days and I will temporarily disappear from the forum in the next few weeks.  I hope all of you can continue the wonderful discussions here and in other parts of the forum.  I will miss participating here in the weeks ahead.  But to be sure, I will be back!

[myprivatejack]

  Come back soon,please ¡

Well,I think Ennis has the charm of things that are,at the same time,close and plain,mysterious and distant.Somebody who shows how he is in a very easy way,at least in the surface; but that hides something one can guess,something beyond his silences...Maybe is this duality what attracted three persons during a so long time of their lives;they were always trying to open that door that was always half closed.

[tpe]

Come back soon,please ¡

Well,I think Ennis has the charm of things that are,at the same time,close and plain,mysterious and distant.Somebody who shows how he is in a very easy way,at least in the surface; but that hides something one can guess,something beyond his silences...Maybe is this duality what attracted three persons during a so long time of their lives;they were always trying to open that door that was always half closed.

Sometimes, I think of Ennis as more than just a duality.  For all his simplicity and candor, there are many many enigmas to his charcter that points to being torn in many different directions.  In a real sense, the persons who find themselves drawn to him represent distinct and very different manifestations.  THe "door" that you speak of is not the same door for each one.

[myprivatejack]

Sometimes, I think of Ennis as more than just a duality.  For all his simplicity and candor, there are many many enigmas to his charcter that points to being torn in many different directions.  In a real sense, the persons who find themselves drawn to him represent distinct and very different manifestations.  THe "door" that you speak of is not the same door for each one.

Yes,Ennis was,above all,a contradiction with legs,as someone said once...There're too many complications,enigmas and paradoxes in him that make him a much more difficult character than one can think,being an inarticulate country boy as he's.And when someone is this way,it's easy that every person who has a relationship with him,knows only a facet.I suppose this is what you refer to when you say that the door is not the same for Jack,Alma or Cassie,no?.   

[tpe]

Yes,Ennis was,above all,a contradiction with legs,as someone said once...There're too many complications,enigmas and paradoxes in him that make him a much more difficult character than one can think,being an inarticulate country boy as he's.And when someone is this way,it's easy that every person who has a relationship with him,knows only a facet.I suppose this is what you refer to when you say that the door is not the same for Jack,Alma or Cassie,no?.   

Because he is more complicated, is is thereby more accessible to every human being.  By is faults and contradications and the will to love in spite of them, he mirrors us all in our hopes and aspirations.

[myprivatejack]

Because he is more complicated, is is thereby more accessible to every human being.  By is faults and contradications and the will to love in spite of them, he mirrors us all in our hopes and aspirations.

And I suppose it's easier to feel oneself identified with Ennis,in spite of his complexity,or precisely because of it.Every one of us can see an own part or a side of ourselves in him.Moreover,all of us are complicated,all of us have our own fears and contradictions; isn't it true that we always feel closer to the looser,or at least,to the one who seems having a main inner turmoil?

[tpe]

And I suppose it's easier to feel oneself identified with Ennis,in spite of his complexity,or precisely because of it.Every one of us can see an own part or a side of ourselves in him.Moreover,all of us are complicated,all of us have our own fears and contradictions; isn't it true that we always feel closer to the looser,or at least,to the one who seems having a main inner turmoil?

I think that various aspects of each of us identifies with Jack and Ennis.  They are like a side of the same coin -- the reverse of the medal, so to speak.   Each one of us is complicated.  And the inconsistencies of Ennis and Jack speak to different but very related parts of us -- parts that are hard to disentangle.

 

[myprivatejack]

Could we declare that Ennis has the charm of the misterious,the closed; of somebody who has something inside him or her that goes far beyond what we see on the surface?.And that,in these cases,we always want to discover what he hiddens?.

[aintfoolin]

Could we declare that Ennis has the charm of the misterious,the closed; of somebody who has something inside him or her that goes far beyond what we see on the surface?.And that,in these cases,we always want to discover what he hiddens?.

 I hereby declare that Ennis is a mystery (grins).

 There's so many hidden layers to him and he's full of surprises. He says little but can  speak volumes with  a simple gesture. There is a gentle, honest, sincere, vulnerability about him that draws people in. He is unspoiled and passionate towards those he loves, yet he can be so complicated  or transparent at the same time... has many struggles  deep within himself. So human and I loved em. 

[tpe]

Could we declare that Ennis has the charm of the misterious,the closed; of somebody who has something inside him or her that goes far beyond what we see on the surface?.And that,in these cases,we always want to discover what he hiddens?.

I think Ennis was an enigma even to himself.   Without Jack in his life, he is even more inscrutable.  This "mystery" charms and irritates us at the same time.

[myprivatejack]

I hereby declare that Ennis is a mystery (grins).

 There's so many hidden layers to him and he's full of surprises. He says little but can  speak volumes with  a simple gesture. There is a gentle, honest, sincere, vulnerability about him that draws people in. He is unspoiled and passionate towards those he loves, yet he can be so complicated  or transparent at the same time... has many struggles  deep within himself. So human and I loved em. 

Yes,you're awfully right ¡  Maybe isn't this the main characteristic of shy,reserved persons?.They don't speak too much with words,but their body language speaks for them,and how ¡.He can be,as we say here,"like an open book",but at the same time,like a book with several pages lacking...One never knows what he's thinking but one can guess what he's feeling.People tends to be attracted to complicated persons,maybe to impute oneself the merit of having unravelled that mystery...

[myprivatejack]

I think Ennis was an enigma even to himself.   Without Jack in his life, he is even more inscrutable.  This "mystery" charms and irritates us at the same time.

Yes,you're awfully right too ¡  He was an enigma to himself,the same than IMO sometimes he hated himself for being and feeling like he did.Too many questions without answer,too many inner struggles,too any contradictions...Doubtless,this duality creates in us also some dual feelings.