Topic: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)

[myprivatejack]

For me it´s not so important the word we use to define a scene as the feeling it moves on us :\'( .Let´s say that some scenes are definitively the contrary we want for Ennis and Jack by showing the country towns social and moral reality in 60´s, as opposition to the role of idilic shelter that plays BBM.It´s for this that comparing they playing,so in love,so happily,while Aguirre is spying them has always shocked me,because it means the crash between their world and the rest that was waiting for them far from the mountain.

[lightnin flat]

    It wasnt so much the first or second scene with aguirre that was a problem .it was when jack went back
      the following summer and when he said to jack aint got no work for you then ended it by saying now get out my trailer.That sums up for me what aguirre thought about jack.

[myprivatejack]

Yes,but this humiliating scene comes from the fact that Aguirre spied them before,on the contrary he would not have such a bad opinion about Jack.And for me, this was the first danger they could find against their love, as a warning that the world outside was not going to be so wonderful as their little world...

[lightnin flat]

Yes,but this humiliating scene comes from the fact that Aguirre spied them before,on the contrary he would not have such a bad opinion about Jack.And for me, this was the first danger they could find against their love, as a warning that the world outside was not going to be so wonderful as their little world...

                                                                                                                                         
 
  When we saw aguirre looking at jack and ennis through his binoculars we dont know if he is watching them to see if they are working.or he is spying on them to see what else they get up to. Its not untill jack goes back the following year and the way aguirre then speaks to jack that we know for sure what he was looking at.   
   its at this point that it bothered me because up untill then i didnt know for sure what aguirre was all about.
     And its when he said got no work for you and get out my trailer i thought you are in the group that would make life very difficult for jack and ennis. 

[ksxks]

Great post Aintfoolin'. I feel exactly the same way. I turn away when that scene comes on. I know he's gone but I can't bear to watch it. I've seen it I think twice maybe in all of my viewings.

I have never let my eyes linger on that scene, either.  Those who do so are brave, but I am not.  I do not want to see it.  The one part of the movie I don't know by heart.

kathy

[myprivatejack]

The surest thing is that Aguirre was only watching over his interests,not necessarily because he distrusted of the boys. What is sure for me,is that after this coincidence in seeing their love games on the part of someone like Aguirre,this crash between the two worlds would be inevitable.And it was going to be maybe the first link on the chain of problems and dangers around their relationship-as we see few time after when he invents an excuse in order to make them leave BBM before-.The trailer scene is only the result of this crash,I don´t know if I´m explainig well...

[lightnin flat]

         
                MPJ

            Yes you did explain that well.

                 I have wondered a couple of times if thats  why aguirre cut their time on the mountain short.       

[freetraveller]

Well, there was after all a "storm comin' in from the Pacific" and as much as Aguirre disliked Ennis and Jack and thought they were being "unproductive" (so to speak  I don't think he would have dismissed them from BBM in the summer of '63 if he didn't have the "excuse" of the storm coming in.
I think potential candidates for sheepherding jobs at the time were hard to come by, especially with lots of young men posted to Vietnam, plus Wyoming was (is?) one of the less densely populated states in the US. I don't think Aguirre had much choice but to hire Ennis and Jack that summer even if he didn't think much of Jack from the year before.

It is implied that Aguirre had more famliarity with Jack than with Ennis, having worked with him the previous summer too, and with Jack's mother asking him to convey the message that uncle Harold was taken ill.

If it was Ennis instead of Jack coming the following summer ('64) asking for a job, I'm not too sure Aguirre would have declined to hire him as he did with Jack, though. Just a gut feeling, though 

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

I think you make a valid point.  Jack does mention Aguirre's unhappiness during the previous Summer when there were sheep killed during the lightening storm.  For all we know Aguirre just didn't like having Jack work for him at all.

[ksxks]

Well, there was after all a "storm comin' in from the Pacific" and as much as Aguirre disliked Ennis and Jack and thought they were being "unproductive" (so to speak  I don't think he would have dismissed them from BBM in the summer of '63 if he didn't have the "excuse" of the storm coming in.
I think potential candidates for sheepherding jobs at the time were hard to come by, especially with lots of young men posted to Vietnam, plus Wyoming was (is?) one of the less densely populated states in the US. I don't think Aguirre had much choice but to hire Ennis and Jack that summer even if he didn't think much of Jack from the year before.

It is implied that Aguirre had more famliarity with Jack than with Ennis, having worked with him the previous summer too, and with Jack's mother asking him to convey the message that uncle Harold was taken ill.

If it was Ennis instead of Jack coming the following summer ('64) asking for a job, I'm not too sure Aguirre would have declined to hire him as he did with Jack, though. Just a gut feeling, though 

Good points, FT.  Not like guys were lined up around the block for those jobs.  And it's interesting to think, what if Ennis had come back in '64?  Instead of, or with Jack.  What would Aguirre have done, I wonder.

kathy

[tpe]

Good points, FT.  Not like guys were lined up around the block for those jobs.  And it's interesting to think, what if Ennis had come back in '64?  Instead of, or with Jack.  What would Aguirre have done, I wonder.

kathy

I suspect that he would have said no. 

In any case, that scene between Jack and Aguirre in 64 was most unpleasant.

[myprivatejack]

I suspect that he would have said no. 

In any case, that scene between Jack and Aguirre in 64 was most unpleasant.

Really, for me it´s the consequence of that crash I spoke about in former posts,between the idilic world in BBM and the real world they found when they let the mountain,in the figure of Aguirre.

[tpe]

Really, for me it´s the consequence of that crash I spoke about in former posts,between the idilic world in BBM and the real world they found when they let the mountain,in the figure of Aguirre.

There is that clash, no?  Aguirre does represent the intrusion of an ugly "reality" into the idyll of BBM, at least this is my opinion.  Aguirre is certainly a remionder to them that the "world" is a very different place.

[myprivatejack]

                                    AMEN TO THIS AGAIN,TPE¡¡¡                                        (
                                                          

[tpe]

Thanks MPJ. 

[samwise_fan1965]

God knows this is true about the JR Ewing factor! A friend of mine turned to me and asked why all 'you' Texans are like that!  I asked her if it was true that all people from Georgia (her home) were like the folks from Deliverance. It was all in good fun.
But at least we didn't see Big Daddy Newsome cruising in his cadillac with steer horns on the front.

This is easy...I'll move conversation away from the daughters as I agree with earlier comments made about connecting Ennis to family (even despite the tragic relationship with Jack).  His daughters provide hope that Ennis will NOT be lonely even after Jack.

Clearly the worst scene/s were those of Jack Twist in Texas.  All of the characters, including Lureen's father were so sterotypically Texan...what with bolo ties, large-sized belt buckles, pot belly, big hair, on and on.  I live in Texas and was somewhat offended that Ang Lee did not take more time and attention to be less JR Ewing about these scenes.  While the story follows with Jack marrying into Texas wealth, I think the purple crush velvet dining room chairs and diamond pinky rings could have been more subtle.  Thankfully this was not soooooo distracting as to take away from the depth and spirit of the film.  I can only thank the editing room for that.


stationbbm 

[Audrey twist]

I dislike the most the "Jimbo"'s scene 

[myprivatejack]

It´d be  easy  to say that the scene  I dislike the most is the confrontation scene,because in some moments it´s  almost unbearable to see and hear them telling each other  all the things they had in their inner self during so many  years,and it´s true...But at the same time,it´ s  a kid of  relief they´re able to  get out from them all this,for them ,and for us ,because we can feel something will be  different from this moment onward,for good or for bad.

[tpe]

I dislike the most the "Jimbo"'s scene 

This comes closest to being unpleasant for me also...

[tpe]

It´d be  easy  to say that the scene  I dislike the most is the confrontation scene,because in some moments it´s  almost unbearable to see and hear them telling each other  all the things they had in their inner self during so many  years,and it´s true...But at the same time,it´ s  a kid of  relief they´re able to  get out from them all this,for them ,and for us ,because we can feel something will be  different from this moment onward,for good or for bad.

For some reason, I don't dislike the Confrontation scene at all, even though it really hurts me watching it.  I think it's because it is really beautiful to the core.  And close to the heart of it all is the Dozy Embrace. 

[myprivatejack]

For some reason, I don't dislike the Confrontation scene at all, even though it really hurts me watching it.  I think it's because it is really beautiful to the core.  And close to the heart of it all is the Dozy Embrace. 

Well,these two scenes show the different sides of their relationship,no?;full of passion and energy,but also of tenderness,joy and hope in its beguinnig,as young as they themselves were,the DE;hopeless,angry,sad,almost dying as we´d seen it before,growing old as themselves,the CS.

[tpe]

Well,these two scenes show the different sides of their relationship,no?;full of passion and energy,but also of tenderness,joy and hope in its beguinnig,as young as they themselves were,the DE;hopeless,angry,sad,almost dying as we´d seen it before,growing old as themselves,the CS.

It's the great contrasts between the 2 scenes, I think, that seem to tear our hearts in two...  In this sense, it can be a most difficult scene to go through.

[lamusica]

It´d be  easy  to say that the scene  I dislike the most is the confrontation scene,because in some moments it´s  almost unbearable to see and hear them telling each other  all the things they had in their inner self during so many  years,and it´s true...But at the same time,it´ s  a kid of  relief they´re able to  get out from them all this,for them ,and for us ,because we can feel something will be  different from this moment onward,for good or for bad.

I don't know if I dislike this scene the most, but I am the most uncomfortable with this scene.  I abhor any kind of conflict.  This doesn't mean I don't stand up for what I think and believe, but it does mean that I prefer gentle conflict couched in civilized language.  The conflict in this scene is just so raw.  Jack really overreacts when Ennis tells him he can't make it in August as planned, thus setting the tone for a real knock-down argument.  Ennis does his best to keep his cool so long as he can, but eventually, it all comes bubbling out of him -- all the frustration, loneliness, feelings of being trapped by circumstances, etc.  I find this all very disconcerting. I understand where the feelings are coming from, but they are so visceral that they make me feel sick. I hate to see Ennis emptying himself of his emotions, laying himself bare before Jack, actually BEGGING Jack to understand and say it's OK -- they'll just hook up later on.
    This is the scene where Ennis's soul is exposed; he is at his lowest point ever, and Jack won't budge.
    That's why I find this scene so hard to stomach.

[tpe]

***
    This is the scene where Ennis's soul is exposed; he is at his lowest point ever, and Jack won't budge.
    That's why I find this scene so hard to stomach.

As in a fresh wound...

[aintfoolin]

I don't know if I dislike this scene the most, but I am the most uncomfortable with this scene.  I abhor any kind of conflict.  This doesn't mean I don't stand up for what I think and believe, but it does mean that I prefer gentle conflict couched in civilized language.  The conflict in this scene is just so raw.  Jack really overreacts when Ennis tells him he can't make it in August as planned, thus setting the tone for a real knock-down argument.  Ennis does his best to keep his cool so long as he can, but eventually, it all comes bubbling out of him -- all the frustration, loneliness, feelings of being trapped by circumstances, etc.  I find this all very disconcerting. I understand where the feelings are coming from, but they are so visceral that they make me feel sick. I hate to see Ennis emptying himself of his emotions, laying himself bare before Jack, actually BEGGING Jack to understand and say it's OK -- they'll just hook up later on.
    This is the scene where Ennis's soul is exposed; he is at his lowest point ever, and Jack won't budge.
    That's why I find this scene so hard to stomach.

I feel the same about this scene. Thanks for puttin my own thoughts into your words. It was very uncomfortble to watch the total break down, though Jack needed to say those words and Ennis needed to hear them.
I also felt this way in the Thanksgiving scenes. especially at Jack's house. LD was being a total prick imo. Jack was forced to set him straight, but I doubt after this, aside from Bobby no one ate much. Kinda of a damper don't you think?


Happy Thanksgiving everyone!!!!!!

[lamusica]

Yes, I hope everyone has a much happier Thanksgiving than the two shown in BBM.  Both are so necessary to the film, but both are so emotional, like eating dinner on a powderkeg, just waiting for the fuse to ignite and blow them all to kingdom come.  All that angst they were all keeping inside!  Wow! That would be uncomfortable.  I think the juxtaposition of those two scenes shows the viewer just how much Jack and Ennis were holding inside and building up.   Then, on a day when everyone should be giving thanks for all they had, they both explode. After all, the one thing each man wanted was denied him, so he was full of unrest, ready for bear, as the saying goes.  They didn't have the one thing they would have been truly thankful for -- each other. I can't say I liked the scenes, but they were powerful and insightful.

[aintfoolin]

Yes thank you lamusica, If this is any indication of what Jack had to put up with in Chidress, him and LD locked into some kind of pwer stuggle for his family, I can see why he sought Ennis out after 4 years of this. The degradation Jack must have suffered, having to fight for your role as head of his own family against an arrogant bore like LD. I don't like to insite violence in any form but maybe the the wrong "Turkey" got carved that year. Nah Jack would'nt do that, or would he?  A man can be pushed to far and I have my suspicions about Jack  ....Could've gotten ugly . He hated Jack's guts and Jack hated his.

[myprivatejack]

Another scene I rather dislike is when the two are near the river and Ennis confess he´s afraid of being discovered in their relationship;is one of the few moments that are shown in the movie where Jack could take avantadge of the situation to do what he must have done much before and more often along their relationship.To look for an affirmative answer from Ennis instead of letting time pass by living his love and their life without more future perspective.He does at the end and not only doesn´t get this affirmative answer,nor even a strong negative, but an almost cinical one.Too much to bear for somebody who has waited so much to get his dreams,too big glass of cold,ice water under him...I´ve always thought that from this very moment onward Jack realises they will arrive nowhere,and the break-up of some illiusions is always something unbearable to see...

[tpe]

Another scene I rather dislike is when the two are near the river and Ennis confess he´s afraid of being discovered in their relationship;is one of the few moments that are shown in the movie where Jack could take avantadge of the situation to do what he must have done much before and more often along their relationship.To look for an affirmative answer from Ennis instead of letting time pass by living his love and their life without more future perspective.He does at the end and not only doesn´t get this affirmative answer,nor even a strong negative, but an almost cinical one.Too much to bear for somebody who has waited so much to get his dreams,too big glass of cold,ice water under him...I´ve always thought that from this very moment onward Jack realises they will arrive nowhere,and the break-up of some illiusions is always something unbearable to see...

I really felt for Jack in that scene -- he was sort of being mocked, I guess.  Well, Ennis probably did have a point, but he could have been easier on Jakc, I guess.

[tenn_man]

Yes, I hope everyone has a much happier Thanksgiving than the two shown in BBM.  Both are so necessary to the film, but both are so emotional, like eating dinner on a powderkeg, just waiting for the fuse to ignite and blow them all to kingdom come.  All that angst they were all keeping inside!  Wow! That would be uncomfortable.  I think the juxtaposition of those two scenes shows the viewer just how much Jack and Ennis were holding inside and building up.   Then, on a day when everyone should be giving thanks for all they had, they both explode. After all, the one thing each man wanted was denied him, so he was full of unrest, ready for bear, as the saying goes.  They didn't have the one thing they would have been truly thankful for -- each other. I can't say I liked the scenes, but they were powerful and insightful.

I guess I did not realize until now this parallel of the thanksgiving scenes!  Both scenes were intense  and disconcerting but I guess I was too caught up in the drama and action to notice the similarities, having seen the movie only twice now (last time a month ago). You are correct, in that both of them would   probably have loved to be in each others arms that day, instead of the circumstances they found themselves in.  It is also interesting, although not surprising, that both of their thanksgivings mirrored the more violent side of human nature. Thanks for pointing this out.