Topic: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)

[tpe]

But don't you find it ironic that Ennis was afraid of being found out on one hand and on the other hand, being completely reckless? 

I find these violent swings fascinating -- where he can be so cautious and reckless one after the other.  I don't blame Jack for being confused, especially during the post divorce fiasco.  Mixed signals certainly breeds confusion and hurt -- as much as it shows weakness and confusion from within.

[myprivatejack]

But don't you find it ironic that Ennis was afraid of being found out on one hand and on the other hand, being completely reckless? 

I find these violent swings fascinating -- where he can be so cautious and reckless one after the other.  I don't blame Jack for being confused, especially during the post divorce fiasco.  Mixed signals certainly breeds confusion and hurt -- as much as it shows weakness and confusion from within.

Yes,you're right;it's somehow ironic...But BBM is full with ironies(sometimes cruel ironies)and full with contradictions(sometimes cruel contradictions too)on the part of Ennis.I think that in scenes like this is when one can notice and separate completely his reactions,divided between his fears and bounds to society's rules and his feelings and wishes for Jack.For this he's both cautious and reckless,I think...

[LuvJackNasty]

Perhaps it was the presence of the children that made Ennis unusually nervous?

Then again, whne the truck drives by, his attention is momentarily diverted, even as he talks to Jack.  Somemembers have suggested that he might have thought this to be Alma driving past, and the possibility of him seeing Jack disturbed him.

Whether or not this is true, it highlights Ennis's intense paranio at that moment -- casued perhaps by the presence of others who may "read" him only too well.

I never thought it was Alma. But his whole demeanor shifts after Jack says he had to ask about 10 different people in Riverton where Ennis lived. And then the truck drives by. Ennis may be paranoid in general or not quite sure if Alma said anything to anyone (the woman scorned thing) and here comes Jack asking where Ennis is making him totally unsettled in that the tire irons were coming for them.

[smartestsonia]

But don't you find it ironic that Ennis was afraid of being found out on one hand and on the other hand, being completely reckless? 

I find these violent swings fascinating -- where he can be so cautious and reckless one after the other.  I don't blame Jack for being confused, especially during the post divorce fiasco.  Mixed signals certainly breeds confusion and hurt -- as much as it shows weakness and confusion from within.

I agree ...it is ironic...Ennis lived in so much fear ..however, he felt free and could be himself in the SNIT as no one was around...he could just be himself....
that was great...but then the fears of the society, Alma.,,what his kids will think was too much in him to act normal and free...

My heart goes out to jack as he was so miserable after that,...actually both fought their miseries alone rather than together..thats what hurts the most

[tpe]

Thanks friends.

Actually, Jack asking aroung for Ennis's whereabouts must have bothered Ennis and contributed to his paranoia.  Plus, I suspect that didn't really want to be seen with Jack -- consider that everytime they met after the reunion, they agreed to meet up in the mountains, and not in town or at Ennis's home.

And yes: I think that both fought their miseries alone rather than together.  For Jack in this scene, he just didn't want Ennis to see him so vulnerable.  Perhaps she should have allowed him to see just how vulnerable he was.

[babytammy7]

My heart goes out to jack as he was so miserable after that,...actually both fought their miseries alone rather than together..thats what hurts the most

That's so sad..but it's true.  :\'( :\'(

[myprivatejack]

I agree ...it is ironic...Ennis lived in so much fear ..however, he felt free and could be himself in the SNIT as no one was around...he could just be himself....
that was great...but then the fears of the society, Alma.,,what his kids will think was too much in him to act normal and free...

My heart goes out to jack as he was so miserable after that,...actually both fought their miseries alone rather than together..thats what hurts the most

That's so sad..but it's true.  :\'( :\'(

Yes,it's sad,but true,Tammy...And this has a great rapport with this lack of communication we've talked about so many times.In this sense,they aren't a real couple,because there will be trust enough between them-too many,fears,too many suspicions,too many denials...-as to fight these miseries together,as the result would have had influence in both.It's such a pity¡  :\'(

[smartestsonia]

Yes,it's sad,but true,Tammy...And this has a great rapport with this lack of communication we've talked about so many times.In this sense,they aren't a real couple,because there will be trust enough between them-too many,fears,too many suspicions,too many denials...-as to fight these miseries together,as the result would have had influence in both.It's such a pity¡  :\'(

they were a couple with regards to the love they share and all the unspoken care and concern..however,,as u say what they lacked is communication...Communication really helps ya when spoken the right things at the right time...alas, that dint happen in their case and so they were left with so many regrets

[tpe]

It is pretty much true that the most depressing scenes in BBM are when we see this lack of communication operative.  Being viewers who are made to see both their struggles, it moves us even more, and gives us a sense of wanting to intervene in the middle of the scenes -- pehrpa knocking their heads together in frustration...

[smartestsonia]

It is pretty much true that the most depressing scenes in BBM are when we see this lack of communication operative.  Being viewers who are made to see both their struggles, it moves us even more, and gives us a sense of wanting to intervene in the middle of the scenes -- pehrpa knocking their heads together in frustration...

ya exactly.....as audience we feel so many amendments and changes ought to be made in the way they handled a situation..how they should have been more reciprocative and more expressive especially when their relationship matured and all....ya we all wish to intervene and get into their minds and tell them how to behave or what to say..however, thats how they were and we gota accept that ....its sad that some people make decisons and we wish they dint do so....thsi movie teaches one that when the right things r not expressed or attempts r not made how it can hamper the relation or make things tense...

[tpe]

The fact that we want to intervene and make changes with some of the scene we "dislike" is testament to the power of the story.  That we would so choose to be deus ex machina and alter the course of their fates should give us pause: it blurs the boundary between Art and reality.  No better compliment can we give.

[FlwrChild]

You put it beautifully tpe. That is the power of the story and the way it touches our hearts. 

[tpe]

Thanks Barb.  In this light, I sometimes ask myself whether I really dislike any scene in BBM, no matter how difficult it is...

[FlwrChild]

Yes, some of them hurt me, but I can't truly say I 'dislike' them. I simply wish for the characters, not for the story, that they could be different. Sigh...I guess that means they did what they were meant to do.

[ksxks]

Well, there are people I dislike -- LD Newsome.  But it's a "love to hate" thing.  I totally dislike that scene in the bedroom with Lureen and the baby.  But of course it's necessary, to show us Jack's place in that family.  And then we get treated to the Thanksgiving scene and his giving the old man his due and claiming his own place.  (And Bobby and his bowl of gruel is a little twerp.  Poor thing, with those unhappy people.)

kathy

[smartestsonia]

the story is defintely powerful to leave a mark on so many minds...what we all feel now after giving so many comments on this website is the same as to how we felt when we had just watched the film...thats the true magnetic effect of the film and characters that draws us towards them....we do wish that the characters would be more expressive..this is mailny because we know how much each of them love each other and mean to each other....

[Matt Nasty]

Thanks Barb.  In this light, I sometimes ask myself whether I really dislike any scene in BBM, no matter how difficult it is...

im the same in this respect. take jacks death seen for instance it hurts me to the point i nearly throw up...but still...it adds to the over all power of the movie...in affect the uncomfortable and displeasing moments are jsut as important as the warm and loving moments.

[FlwrChild]

Couldn't have said it better Matt. We wouldn't be nearly as invested in the characters or the story if we hadn't felt their pain along with their joy.

[Ranchand1]

      Love and pain they both bind us deeply.  Well said Matt.

[tpe]

im the same in this respect. take jacks death seen for instance it hurts me to the point i nearly throw up...but still...it adds to the over all power of the movie...in affect the uncomfortable and displeasing moments are jsut as important as the warm and loving moments.

Yes, that scene, no matter how unpleasant, drives home the pain of Jack's death -- whether or not is was by the tire-iron.  It invests that moment with a powerful solemnity, espeically when it is shown in total silence.

As with Kathy, I agree that I dislike the elder Newsome, although his character is both unpleasant and comic/satiric.  Certainly, he is a more complicated character than meets the eye...

[myprivatejack]

im the same in this respect. take jacks death seen for instance it hurts me to the point i nearly throw up...but still...it adds to the over all power of the movie...in affect the uncomfortable and displeasing moments are jsut as important as the warm and loving moments.

I tottally agree,Matt; well said¡    Uncomfortable and displeasing moments are just as important as the warm and loving ones because all of them show us Ennis and Jack the way they are; not two heroes,but two ordinary persons,slaves of their passions and their doubts.And all their sorrows and happiness bring to us this image of normality and serve to give a deep human touch to the story.

[smartestsonia]

im the same in this respect. take jacks death seen for instance it hurts me to the point i nearly throw up...but still...it adds to the over all power of the movie...in affect the uncomfortable and displeasing moments are jsut as important as the warm and loving moments.

Jacks death is a hauting scene..it gives me chills ..the impact ios that huge for me..I know that it adds the intensity of the film

Obviously we all wanted them to be together ..so Jacks death scene can be disturbing for everyone but that is what makes the story more impactful and memorable..we all remember the forbidden love and the pain of both as well as the solace Ennis has after Jack's death of their loved moments together

[BlueMountain]

When we see Jack getting killed, there is no background music or score and it's just silent and horrific... I could feel my heartbeat from my neck when I saw that for the first time.... :\'(

[tpe]

When we see Jack getting killed, there is no background music or score and it's just silent and horrific... I could feel my heartbeat from my neck when I saw that for the first time.... :\'(

This is an excellent point -- there is NO sound whatsoever in the scene where Ennis sees Jack being murdered.  One can only imagine the screams and the shouts of hatred.  The silence is all the more brutal and depraved...

[BlueMountain]

This is an excellent point -- there is NO sound whatsoever in the scene where Ennis sees Jack being murdered.  One can only imagine the screams and the shouts of hatred.  The silence is all the more brutal and depraved...

 :\'( Killing someone for no good reason what so ever... That scene is more brutal and horrifying than most horror movies!
Plus it was Jake Gyllenhaal getting killed and when I saw blood on his face I just died.

[tpe]

:\'( Killing someone for no good reason what so ever... That scene is more brutal and horrifying than most horror movies!
Plus it was Jake Gyllenhaal getting killed and when I saw blood on his face I just died.

Yes, I think the starkness and silence of the entie scene made it more horrible to watch -- and it wasn't the blood and the battered face, per se, that made it horriific.  What made it horrific was that it was perpetrated purely on hate and prejudice.  And such hate still exists today, and thrives in many places around the world.

[BlueMountain]

Yes, I think the starkness and silence of the entie scene made it more horrible to watch -- and it wasn't the blood and the battered face, per se, that made it horriific.  What made it horrific was that it was perpetrated purely on hate and prejudice.  And such hate still exists today, and thrives in many places around the world.

And that is exactly the thing that makes humans no more civilised than animals. 

Its almost 2009 and STILL this discimination is still here... People need to have something BIG happen to them to wake them up.

[LauraLovesLedger]

Yes, I think the starkness and silence of the entie scene made it more horrible to watch -- and it wasn't the blood and the battered face, per se, that made it horriific.  What made it horrific was that it was perpetrated purely on hate and prejudice.  And such hate still exists today, and thrives in many places around the world.

Well said, tpe, the horror of the scene was definitely more what had induced it, rather than the gore. 

By far, the worst scene in the film for me.  Makes me wince painfully and feel as if it were me being struck with the tire iron.  Ugh, just a hateful, hateful thing.

Of course there is no shortage of other heartbreaking scenes in BBM, but the difference is there is no beauty in that stark, violent one.

[myprivatejack]

Yes, I think the starkness and silence of the entie scene made it more horrible to watch -- and it wasn't the blood and the battered face, per se, that made it horriific.  What made it horrific was that it was perpetrated purely on hate and prejudice.  And such hate still exists today, and thrives in many places around the world.

I only can but agree with you,Thomas; the "sound of silence" as a soundtrack remarks still more the horror of the scene.And yes,Laura,more than the gore because the murder we see is real,not some great quantity of hemoglobin to make us horrify or,better said,to be repulsed:; because there have been a lot of Jacks in the world who has been killed,if not by some tire irons,by intolerance,misunderstanding,prejudices,hate and stupidity...It's what really hurts to watch...

[BlueMountain]

I remember covering my mouth with fear and sadness when I saw that scene... :\'(

It was so sudden... I just cannot bear to watch the second half of BBM again...

  Jack Twist...