Topic: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)

[vedrana]

I hate the scene with Jack's death... I dislike it because we lose him...    I personally realize that I also dislike any scene with Lureen... She's the character I dislike in the film due to the fact that it was probably her who set it up with Jack in the end and everything... I think that's also why I don't like my current title... Lureen... 

Anyway, I also felt the same thing with the shirts. I wanted to hug Ennis and make him feel better, and for them to see eachother  again and to admit their feelings.

Hm... I don't believe that Lureen had anything to do with Jack's death. I believe that she loved him in her way.

[Lobsel-Vith]

Hm... I don't believe that Lureen had anything to do with Jack's death. I believe that she loved him in her way.

Yeah but the sort of lack of compassion from the part where Ennis and she are talking on the phone made me sort of dislike her - a lot... I mean, she was just so cold in how she was explaining what happened... It just made me think that perhaps she had found out and it really upset her... even more than when Alma found it but Lureen didn't take it.

[vedrana]

Yeah but the sort of lack of compassion from the part where Ennis and she are talking on the phone made me sort of dislike her - a lot... I mean, she was just so cold in how she was explaining what happened... It just made me think that perhaps she had found out and it really upset her... even more than when Alma found it but Lureen didn't take it.

I don't know why, but I was always fond of her much more than of Alma. Maybe it's not fair cos poor Alma had many difficult moments with Ennis, but Lureen seemed very easy to deal with. I only dislike her not loving Jack later the same as in the beginning, but this can also be only her pose. She cried during her talk with Ennis and in another thread one Brokie explained very well that her tears could show that she felt guilty not knowing her husband enough. Still I believe that she loved him! In her way! And yes, finally she realized the truth, and as expected it wasn't easy for her.

[Lobsel-Vith]

I don't know why, but I was always fond of her much more than of Alma. Maybe it's not fair cos poor Alma had many difficult moments with Ennis, but Lureen seemed very easy to deal with. I only dislike her not loving Jack later the same as in the beginning, but this can also be only her pose. She cried during her talk with Ennis and in another thread one Brokie explained very well that her tears could show that she felt guilty not knowing her husband enough. Still I believe that she loved him! In her way! And yes, finally she realized the truth, and as expected it wasn't easy for her.

That's a good perspective. I mean, I do like her earlier but it just seems like she was insensitive toward his death. I did notice the tears and stuff when she was crying while talking to Ennis and he was telling her basically the reason why Jack wanted his ashes scattered up there, and she came to full realization but I just thought that perhaps she was somehow involved. I do regard her differently, she was my favorite character after Jack and Ennis but after the final part I kind of just disliked her... Her earlier character I still like but one can see in the film that she suspects something but really doesn't let it get to her until Ennis tells her that he and Jack were up there one summer.

[vedrana]

That's a good perspective. I mean, I do like her earlier but it just seems like she was insensitive toward his death. I did notice the tears and stuff when she was crying while talking to Ennis and he was telling her basically the reason why Jack wanted his ashes scattered up there, and she came to full realization but I just thought that perhaps she was somehow involved. I do regard her differently, she was my favorite character after Jack and Ennis but after the final part I kind of just disliked her... Her earlier character I still like but one can see in the film that she suspects something but really doesn't let it get to her until Ennis tells her that he and Jack were up there one summer.

Many people here don't like her very much. That's personal thing. I think that in the moment Jack married her- she was the best thing that could happen to Jack (besides Ennis, but he was far away and not willing to accept sweet life). He was alone, she loved him (in a way i think that he loved her too), he was broke, she was loaded, he had no proper job, she(her father) had a company .... and so on... She was Jack's jackpot at the time! In later years, she really didn't show enough affection towards him, especially cos he was the man who really needed love and I resent that. IMO she loved him in her half cold half superficial way, but she did!

She was talking about his death in a cold way from outside, but as Lance said - she took a half of his ashes and buried it in Texas. That's also indicating!

[Lobsel-Vith]

Many people here don't like her very much. That's personal thing. I think that in the moment Jack married her- she was the best thing that could happen to Jack (besides Ennis, but he was far away and not willing to accept sweet life). He was alone, she loved him (in a way i think that he loved her too), he was broke, she was loaded, he had no proper job, she(her father) had a company .... and so on... She was Jack's jackpot at the time! In later years, she really didn't show enough affection towards him, especially cos he was the man who really needed love and I resent that. IMO she loved him in her half cold half superficial way, but she did!

She was talking about his death in a cold way from outside, but as Lance said - she took a half of his ashes and buried it in Texas. That's also indicating!

That is very indicating. I don't ever think I really got that she did bury some of them, I just thought she had them still with her... She was his savior any many ways as you did say because she had it all, that he could need, except that he didn't love her like Ennis. I just thought that she had the negativity toward his death and that made me really dislike her. I guess maybe if I watch again, I can see what you point out and change my perspective.   When you say that she was talking about his death 'in a cold way, on the outside' what do you mean? I don't quite understand it...

[vedrana]

That is very indicating. I don't ever think I really got that she did bury some of them, I just thought she had them still with her... She was his savior any many ways as you did say because she had it all, that he could need, except that he didn't love her like Ennis. I just thought that she had the negativity toward his death and that made me really dislike her. I guess maybe if I watch again, I can see what you point out and change my perspective.   When you say that she was talking about his death 'in a cold way, on the outside' what do you mean? I don't quite understand it...

Yes, you should pay attention next time. Each time I also discover new things when watching, and it is always amazing!

What I meant about Lureen is that maybe it was a pose, but inside she was sad about his death! When she said how young he was when he died - she really felt it! And Ennis....  he was devastated. :\'(

[tpe]

I believe that all of us discovered that we have something hidden after watching this movie. And even I manage to describe myself the meaning of BBM for myself, it's power to shake our fundamental being will always remain a mystery. That goes especially for me, who never had any favorite movie, or an actor... I enjoyed in things superficially and it was enough for me. Here in BBM I am splitting hair in 4 for each scene. This movie has turned me upside down! So, I know what the "hidden nerve" means... even I still don't know what it is... ?

Even though BBM contains scenes that might be very distasterful to some of us, I think that most of us here would not have it any other way...  The balance with the beautiful/peaceful scenes and the sad/tumultuous all make BBM the artistic masterpiece that it is.

[tpe]

In that sense, the scene which really killed me is the one when Ennis finds the shirts. That one is utterly devastating for my emotions, but it is not the one I can dislike... I dislike the scene of killing Jack - that one is also devastating, but in a different way. In the shirt scene, as sad as it is, I want to see Jack and I want to embrace Ennis - I want to participate. In the killing Jack scene, I want to escape and to neglect it as a reality.  Does this make sense?

Yes, the finding of the shirts is hard to watch, but it is a beautiful/heartfelt scene that we cannot really dislike.  The murder scene is a totally different story.  It is hard to watch and a horror to contemplate.

[vedrana]

Even though BBM contains scenes that might be very distasterful to some of us, I think that most of us here would not have it any other way...  The balance with the beautiful/peaceful scenes and the sad/tumultuous all make BBM the artistic masterpiece that it is.

Hm... I have to admit that I would have some scenes in completely different way. Even recently I manage to find a sort of peace in myself, the first weeks of BBM stroke and sad scenes were too much to tolerate. 

Anyway, I think that one needs time, but generally it is better for me, and yes, maybe in very near future I'd be able to embrace it all. Right now I would still change some things, not because they're wrong, but because I am not strong enough to accept them. 

[tpe]

Hm... I have to admit that I would have some scenes in completely different way. Even recently I manage to find a sort of peace in myself, the first weeks of BBM stroke and sad scenes were too much to tolerate. 

Anyway, I think that one needs time, but generally it is better for me, and yes, maybe in very near future I'd be able to embrace it all. Right now I would still change some things, not because they're wrong, but because I am not strong enough to accept them. 

Think of it this way: if they didn't do what they did, perhaps you would have reacted less to the story/movie.

[vedrana]

Think of it this way: if they didn't do what they did, perhaps you would have reacted less to the story/movie.

Sure tpe! 

I am deeply aware of it! So I said - it is not the SS or the movie, it is my personal weakness which finds difficult to accept so sad ending! 

[tpe]

Sure tpe! 

I am deeply aware of it! So I said - it is not the SS or the movie, it is my personal weakness which finds difficult to accept so sad ending! 

But this personal weakness is also partly responsible for why the movie haunts you.  It is both a cause and an effect.  And I think that the author and the director wanted it this way.  The ending provokes us...

[vedrana]

But this personal weakness is also partly responsible for why the movie haunts you.  It is both a cause and an effect.  And I think that the author and the director wanted it this way.  The ending provokes us...

You're so right here! The sad ending was needed to make my weakness respond to it. Both are necessary for PBS. And PBS is an immense obsession, happiness and sorrow, yearning and gaining and all in between.

[atalley]

It's been awhile since I've been able to be here, but what a great discussion!

[vedrana]

It's been awhile since I've been able to be here, but what a great discussion!

Atalley , nice to have you here again! 

[Lobsel-Vith]

You're so right here! The sad ending was needed to make my weakness respond to it. Both are necessary for PBS. And PBS is an immense obsession, happiness and sorrow, yearning and gaining and all in between.

Yes! That is right, it was formed that way to snatch us, to move us deep down inside. It didn't affect others in the same way because perhaps their emotional level wasn't as 'open' or 'ready' to be hit so hard with such powerful emotions. We've spoken about that 'cord' or something that gets moved slightly over the life, but I've said that BBM rocked it, and bounced it around causing so much that I didn't realize. The yearning, happiness, sorrow, and obsession (which can be seen if one looks at my computer), all stem from something that none of us too into account before, and BBM, and all the emotion with it brought it, and changed us somehow.

Wow, now I need to immerse myself in BBM again.

[tpe]

You're so right here! The sad ending was needed to make my weakness respond to it. Both are necessary for PBS. And PBS is an immense obsession, happiness and sorrow, yearning and gaining and all in between.

Yes! That is right, it was formed that way to snatch us, to move us deep down inside. It didn't affect others in the same way because perhaps their emotional level wasn't as 'open' or 'ready' to be hit so hard with such powerful emotions. We've spoken about that 'cord' or something that gets moved slightly over the life, but I've said that BBM rocked it, and bounced it around causing so much that I didn't realize. The yearning, happiness, sorrow, and obsession (which can be seen if one looks at my computer), all stem from something that none of us too into account before, and BBM, and all the emotion with it brought it, and changed us somehow.

Wow, now I need to immerse myself in BBM again.

An gentler ending would have sounded weak, IMO, after the pain of the Last Confrontation and the catastrophe of Jack's death.   If the sadness in the end was too strong, it was at least successful in generating strong reactions from us all.

It's been awhile since I've been able to be here, but what a great discussion!

Feel free to join us, atalley. 

[vedrana]

An gentler ending would have sounded weak, IMO, after the pain of the Last Confrontation and the catastrophe of Jack's death.   If the sadness in the end was too strong, it was at least successful in generating strong reactions from us all.

One close person of mine hated happy endings in the movies because she thought that it's not a real life, that it's made that way only to make audience happy. But I am the opposite. I think that there's enough sorrow in the real life, so we should have happy endings in the movies.

But, the truth is that no happy ending could touch us and shattered our hearts as this profound sadness of BBM end!

[tpe]

One close person of mine hated happy endings in the movies because she thought that it's not a real life, that it's made that way only to make audience happy. But I am the opposite. I think that there's enough sorrow in the real life, so we should have happy endings in the movies.

But, the truth is that no happy ending could touch us and shattered our hearts as this profound sadness of BBM end!

This is the other extreme, of course.  Happy endings can be just as fine, but it has to be managed differently, and more carefully, IMO.  It can also affect us deeply, if done the right way. 

[vedrana]

This is the other extreme, of course.  Happy endings can be just as fine, but it has to be managed differently, and more carefully, IMO.  It can also affect us deeply, if done the right way. 

Hm.. sometimes I think that she just didn't want to admit how sensitive she was...

I agree that happy ending should be managed differently and still.... I just loooooove happy endings! Ennis and Jack are happy together in my mind and soul! Forever.

[tpe]

Hm.. sometimes I think that she just didn't want to admit how sensitive she was...

I agree that happy ending should be managed differently and still.... I just loooooove happy endings! Ennis and Jack are happy together in my mind and soul! Forever.

It would have been difficult to show a happy ending after Jack's death.  But if we remember the wonderful times they shared, I think it goes a long way to soften the sad ending. 

[vedrana]

It would have been difficult to show a happy ending after Jack's death.  But if we remember the wonderful times they shared, I think it goes a long way to soften the sad ending. 

I wasn't exactly thinking that Jack died... but it's only my imagination...

[BlueMountain]

I wasn't exactly thinking that Jack died... but it's only my imagination...

  Yes, He's was alive and Ennis was just having a bad dream!

It would have been difficult to show a happy ending after Jack's death.  But if we remember the wonderful times they shared, I think it goes a long way to soften the sad ending. 

Some flashbacks of them together would of made it more dramatic I think :\'(

[Lobsel-Vith]

Yes, He's was alive and Ennis was just having a bad dream!

How much I would have loved it if it were all a bad dream! and Ennis awoke and came to the realization that Jack was his everything, and they got their ranch, lived together, and admitted there feelings... but that's how I would have loved it but like Tpe had said, if it were a happier ending, we wouldn't have been affected... We wouldn't have thought so deeply on it all, but it's still rather hard to accept it.

[vedrana]

How much I would have loved it if it were all a bad dream! and Ennis awoke and came to the realization that Jack was his everything, and they got their ranch, lived together, and admitted there feelings... but that's how I would have loved it but like Tpe had said, if it were a happier ending, we wouldn't have been affected... We wouldn't have thought so deeply on it all, but it's still rather hard to accept it.

But, dear LV - we have the right to dream and to erase the unpleasant scenes and sadness. 

[BlueMountain]

I watched the last 30 seconds of the movie again.  :\'(
I love the first 30 minutes then I just turn it off  Sometimes I wish I was in the movie  so that I could DO SOMETHING TO HELP! :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'(

Whew... I remember hating myself for watching it the first time... I was going crazy! 

[myprivatejack]

I watched the last 30 seconds of the movie again.  :\'(
I love the first 30 minutes then I just turn it off  Sometimes I wish I was in the movie  so that I could DO SOMETHING TO HELP! :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'(

Whew... I remember hating myself for watching it the first time... I was going crazy! 

Yes,that's what I have felt several times too,BMˇSpecially one of the scenes I dislike the most;when Jack drives an awful quantity of miles to be with Ennis after the divorce.I always feel like "entering into the screen" and tell Ennis;-"Don't be stupid,old boyˇ Look what he has done to be with you;give him the opportunity,even if you must be with your daughters ˇ.It's better to share his company with them than not having this company at all,can't you see it?If you are wishing it too,! f@#$ng paranoiac ˇ.
But,I can't do this,and,what's worse,as my Alma says,"from this very moment onwards,Jack realises he's never going to live with his love,because Ennis main problem is not being married,nor his duties about his daughters;it's main problem is himself.That's why Jack cries and went to Mexico;to try to forget the emotional and physical dependency he has of Ennis...".And,only for one time,I agree with her; how sad ˇ. :\'(

[BlueMountain]

Yes,that's what I have felt several times too,BMˇSpecially one of the scenes I dislike the most;when Jack drives an awful quantity of miles to be with Ennis after the divorce.I always feel like "entering into the screen" and tell Ennis;-"Don't be stupid,old boyˇ Look what he has done to be with you;give him the opportunity,even if you must be with your daughters ˇ.It's better to share his company with them than not having this company at all,can't you see it?If you are wishing it too,! f@#$ng paranoiac ˇ.
But,I can't do this,and,what's worse,as my Alma says,"from this very moment onwards,Jack realises he's never going to live with his love,because Ennis main problem is not being married,nor his duties about his daughters;it's main problem is himself.That's why Jack cries and went to Mexico;to try to forget the emotional and physical dependency he has of Ennis...".And,only for one time,I agree with her; how sad ˇ. :\'(

Yes, that's exactly what I wish I could of told Ennis! :\'(
I felt so bad for Jack... Ennis really should of introduced him to his daughters...

[vedrana]

Yes, that's exactly what I wish I could of told Ennis! :\'(
I felt so bad for Jack... Ennis really should of introduced him to his daughters...

Well, he did introduced him to Jr and Jenny, but that was all. After that he let him go broken heart... :\'(